friends of his for profit it was called the teapot dome because of the shape of the rock formation under which most of the oil recited. but a teapot dome was probably the most transgression intone 1972 when the first and greatest was revealed. meanwhile harding was setting records for adultery not eclipse until kennedy came along. one day a tour was conducted is sounded like to people banging on the walls of the tiny janitor's closet next to the office as buckets are tumbling until july a female

voice normally fed janitor does not inspire that degree of enthusiasm. [laughter] the guide asked the group to walk faster and they were happy to oblige. the most important event of 1920 in my opinion but it took place on the roof of the factory just outside pittsburgh pennsylvania. in the mass media of which there is no force and what they did the first tuesday night was to broadcast a

news event five. never done before. it was though harding election and the the the country nor the world would never be the same again although few people could have imagined one day radio with the two television and nobody could imagine in keeping up with the kardashian is. [laughter] small towns were always thought of as the home of virtue then sinclair lewis wrote our town. american literature. >> kyushu the home of entertainment then in 1920 regained the first of the four pulitzer prize and the theater was never the same again.

poetry was the home of romance and dash 1920 carl sandberg came along and was never the same again. with the exception of some popular songs had titles like daddy you have then a mother to me. [laughter] when the moon shines on the moonshine. 28 napoleon with josephine when napoleon was the way. and then out of nowhere virtually no one had heard of. mimi smith, not bessie

released to the record crazy blues that became against all odds the number one song in the country and the jazz age have officially begun. and with that of harlem renaissance already begun begun, music and literature and as the country's prase had changed and in the history of united states, the only decade that has its own name, adjective. but the other events that jump-start the engine and may be quite a while as hearing aids better.

but the year -- "1920" the year that made the decade roar". [applause] that is not true not the last you will hear from me. >> very interesting. but that anarchists before 21 flew a bomb into new york from alec m. davies that i couldn't serve for my family for a whole year. >> once they attacked before 1920 but in 1919 there was a

wave of package bomb sent. one person died and it was the person delivering the package the worst injury beside that was a made handling the package lost her hands. the package bombs were sent to mayors, judges and members of the establishment. i don't know about the case you are talking about but there was some incidents but never anything that killed and injured as many people as the attack and i told you about. >> i will be 90 on thursday.

but i did not hear you mention and woodrow wilson but that you referred to. >> i'm sorry that you brought that up. i was being queued to. [laughter] this is not an analogy that i am crazy about but basically a serious talk but the format was like jokes without punchlines which was the voice to say make them buy the book so they will find out. but you have come up to the microphone and have ruined that. [laughter] fortunately you all they just ruined one of the questions. >> this second one. >> zero good. another. >> regarding to ponzi i studied him many years ago

and i reduced it to that his appeal was he was engaging in what we would call international corporate charge. >> that is a good term for that purpose of very good. >> you said you didn't even understand it. >> i don't. that is a good term but i don't think that explains exactly what he was doing. >> obviously collecting far more money than he could pay out but the appeal was a sales card. the postal rates are different in 100 countries around the world and i could by the postal certificates and trade them off in another country if it is different than i make a profit you get the benefits

that was the pitch. >> maya a understanding, and in my reading i have not seen that but he mower them likely did not go into that detail for fear of confusing people. >> the primary sidles one dash sales pitch is i would give you a 50% return. [laughter] and every one that i would give you a 50% return. >> you didn't do too much damage. >> i apologize for blowing your teaser. [laughter] >> i need to make a correction and then a question. you said that sinclair lewis wrote our town. >> for heaven's sake. >> this gentleman koch a

foolish mistake that sinclair lewis wrote our town of course, he wrote main street. now for the question. did you watch boardwalk's empire? >> no. i was going to ask how realistic did you think that was? >> i have no idea. i'm sorry. >> i think i read somewhere maybe 1920 or maybe not that in the midst of all the turmoil you had one of the largest demonstration down on the mall today to at that time. is that correct?

>> to the best of my knowledge nothing like that happened. what was the recent? >> the bonus are we? that was quite a bit later. >> the protest did not occur much but interestingly enough there wasn't time to go into everything with the labor unrest and strikes there were 23,000 strakes 20 years before that there would have been none. there was a massive change with the indication how terrible the working conditions were that the

strike became a state -- a staple of the american workplace. >> what were the political forces against women voting? people were giving money because of what fere? >> i have no idea. there is no logical reason. i can tell you that a great number of the people were opposed were with men and explanations that i have read about women in particular of of closing its the roles. they sounded the worst of a chauvinistic mass. we have our places and it

isn't a good 88 to confuse the roles. that is the general idea behind it. but this is coming from women and certainly man. >> the 18th and 19th amendment of the one hand to oppose suffrage those that were the most die-hard activist, you had of lot of prominent leaders who seemed to be making deals that were very active and the temperance movement and supportive of the 18th amendment as well. do you talk about that in the book the political bargaining that seemed to be going on to get most -- both

the of the of men? rick i have written that linked in another book and it is my feeling that it was but i don't think that had much to do with the basic problems of the 1920's. >> could you talk about the harlem renaissance and the state of race relations its connected that was popular among white people? >> there was a glorious thing and it is wonderful to read about. the effect on whites generally was nonexistent. the harlem renaissance funded by the most part by jewish merchants from manhattan who would drive up

in their limousines at night to enjoy the pleasure of the exotic culture. it was by any means not a tourist attraction -- attraction or draw people from other places. like the people that duke ellington was playing for was almost exclusively for new yorkers. at the cotton club although blacks sang and played, they were not allowed in the door to be customers. and duke ellington asked about that and had a very unsatisfactory answer but then they can but perhaps

one went along. the harlem renaissance was not widespread with the effects of race relations how which changed music and literature, a hall of the average white with book at the average black it did not have much of any fact it is a wonderful period. i don't know if you share my admiration that to me is the most interesting to mama's - - journalists but he was a leading figure for the harlem renaissance because

he was someone anti-semitic and jews were his best friends. he was prejudiced against african-americans but he worked very hard with african-american writers and what they say about him him, they would idolize him. he more than anyone else took it upon but that was much more than you asked. >> is that it for oppressions? [applause] take your.

they accuse. >> please bear broke to get that signed. [inaudible conversations]

>> and i think we need a different model of legal education that includes one year programs for those doing routine work, a two year programs as an option to do something specialized in the third year or four years for people who want the full general practice legal education that we now have but it is crazy to train in the same way somebody who does a routine

divorce in a small town in the midwest and somebody doing mergers and acquisitions on wall street the one size fits all model is extremely extensive the average debt level is $100,000 and that assumes you can train every petty to do everything in the same way. i am licensed to practice in two states i don't trust myself to do routine divorce. egrate new york's bravest. during this event, she was joined by some of the firefighters she wrote about.

this is just over an hour. >> good evening. welcome to agree and i bookstore. we're excited to have this event tonight from the book firefight. all sulfone sore ipad never makes a space splendid on silent horror firebreak there are books for sale at the register. there will be a shortage reading and a panel discussion than a siding to follow. tonight's event is filmed by c-span for booktv we are honored to have them so please fury may be on film we will be passing a

microphone around make sure that you have a microphone in your hands. our featured author is ginger adams otis a journalist who has ben writing about new york city in local politics for more than a decade and a staff writer at the daily news rating for "the new york post", the a.p., national public radio and village voice. her new book "firefight" is based on 10 years of reporting and interviews to trace the history of race and the new york fire department from the first black firefighter to the massive discrimination lawsuit finally settled but there are stories of courage of firefighters risking their lives but also their

livelihood and she shares the stage with these firefighters all members of the society of organization to combat segregation and racism that was instrumental from described in the book all members you are currently active firefighters whose former president of the fulton society and michael marshall [applause] former vulcan society president said discussion was moderated by tom robbins from the graduate school of journalism and has been a columnist here at the voice and the daily news and the observer and has written

many highly acclaimed stories on urban issues. he will reap from the book then we will have time for questions and so please join me to welcome all these people to this stage. [applause] >> good evening. thanks for coming also to agree night bookstore and c-span in case you don't know who's to. that is still man and michael robins i will do a quick reading to pick up part way through the book headed segues for europe to parts of the history that

these into this story of the founder of the association one of the first black firefighters in manhattan from 1919 and how he found his way and it will segue between his story and of modern day vulcans and the civil lawsuit in 2005 and the department of justice was involved so we pick up with the history of paul and michael and this is when they used to go out in the '90s into recruitment in the streets of brooklyn there would go out and set up on the corner if they saw a young looking black person that looked fit they would go to them to get them to sign up to take a fire

department test purpose of lot of times the applicants could want to know what is it like in the firehouse? at that time $50,000 a year sounds good and the pension sounds good but what happens to me inside? so we will start with a story of capt. in washington and what he would tell some of the guys if they would ask that question he would tell them stories of his days in injuns 71 time he was getting hazed and turned a water hose on him and another firefighter while they were shooting hoops in their downtime. he knew he was getting hayes but he thought one of the guys was too enthusiastic so he thought he would get revenge even though he is supposed to you take it.

he waited them when the fire fighter was at a table he got a book editor from the cold water and snapped up behind tim to flip the bucket over his head into betty thinks it is hysterical and he is angry but perchance he isn't bothered. so paul is pleased with himself as people get so we're picking up at that point it is a story he is telling other people but we tell that in realtime. >> key is pleased but if he was wiser he would have known that some form of retribution was coming they could turn the tables on one of their own and the comeuppance was due. one night not long after washington ran upstairs to go to sleep around 2:00 a.m.

as was practice he left the lights off as he entered the bunker from not to wait the rest of the crew after he closed his eyes a sensation was over his face and chest he jumped up and he stopped dead he was covered in dust it coated his hair somebody had put of bag of flour to spill on him and enraged he stormed into the next room because he knew that is where the older firefighter was. washington and kicked his bed you have the problem with meet then get up and deal with it. it up. i will kick your ass.

the rest of the house was silent he went to the kitchen to put a message on the blackboard to calling him to challenge to step forward. then he returned and a shower off and only leader it had nothing to do with the prank. [laughter] but as every bed the left under their blankets when the sense of humor recovered he laughed about also. was he didn't say it is sometimes the sell the childish pranks could go too far to take on a sharper edge he did not tell them some was ted appoint a go to

end the idea was to transfer at the earliest opportunity and sometimes the firefighters that would run into danger to save a black family would crack jokes about the inner city communities they serve while black firefighters pretended not to hear. thought of washington wanted to he could tell the recruits about the time he went to a firehouse when he sat down he was the lone black man he listened to the lieutenant in charge and the entertainment curve with his college-age age daughter when she came home with a new set of friends including a black male with his fumbling attempts to figure out the true state of their relationship. i have nothing against black people but i want -- joel my daughter to marry one the table overlord except

washington his mind flashed to those working outside the doors nearly a dozen whites were eta with them but nobody heard anything wrong. what is sent you would like he asked the you have to sit down with the in-laws are to except the black family into your family of was silent but then the men jumped in to defend the officer. washington and took them all on but not until 1992 he was settled in crown heights and viola keystroke his cousin was also assigned their anatomy were there many more fires but there were four other blacks in the house as well. there were -- the few had

the appetite for that type of discussion. but the lieutenant did not tolerate that type of infighting. bill like a powerhouse had a rare kind of empathy. it wasn't a characteristic that of the lieutenant who always had a smile on his face almost never lost his temper but when he did said target was a quaking mass. he heard tales from others he didn't gloss over the challenges the sometimes they met at bin the fire house to talk about race relations and the obstacles for blacks and the ways they could feel isolated and alone there were one or two

that washington and genuinely liked but he didn't open up about race with anybody. in the quiet moments together they had up bond that washington did not have or expect with other white firefighters once and he was detailed he got into were brutal fight with the of firefighter notice of a troublemaker avoiding a was always the easiest way to deal with him after a few hours on the detail washington went upstairs to stretch out and was not aware how much time had passed when the door flew open. where are you really looking for your we are calling your name and you were a peer taking a nap by ought to kick your ass. washington beat out of the of bed. duet.

that is all he got out before the fire fighter plunged forward. to wrap to is hands around his neck but he twisted then spun him around to shove him backward when he fell he pounced the sitting on the chess eject every strength he had as washington struggles hard to hit him in the face. 26 seeded touche of washington from the chest everything happened in less than a man engaged were exhausted trampoline from the intensity when a fire alarm went off they stood glaring at each other a few seconds later washington was on the back of the truck off to a fire the other man was

received in my home. by the time washington got back word had arrived gossett fran faster than flames telegraph telephone tell a firefighter. he did not feel like rehashing it a few weeks later he learned the troublemaker was transferred out to none of them bothered with any disciplinary action and the transfer request came from those who attended evade some phone calls you never brought it up to washington but once he summed up the reality of his life. these guys are never going to like to prepare you were too proud to be black.

he just laughed. in 1985 he was promoted to shoot capt. and diagnosed with cancer. but as he learned it did not diminish his spirit during their talks he surprised washington with a gift. have these. the firefighters shot to pieces of silver they were the lieutenant bars. he taken the lieutenant's exam and their promotion and was imminent. it was a tradition one set of bars handed down as a special token and washington was touched and a proud. when he made it it was his bars and his former boss lived long enough to see a. very few elsewhere but he never had a problem to

promise if they took the job they would never regretted. some would have bad luck but the falcons would be there to help them find a way out. you never have to worry about being alone and it was 100 percent the truth. coming out of racism of the jim crow era as they were brave enough they endured terrible treatment. the help no other black firefighter red ever feel as vulnerable as he did in the first days. [applause] >> we have been joined by regina wilson the current president of the fulton society and the first woman to hold that office i am

sure she was busy working because they work all the time. [applause] >> this is a good night to have this discussion because this isn't talked about very much but i didn't realize when ginger asked me but to date is metal day. four years i cover city hall and city politics you can see the nonsense but the wonderful things that happen the third wednesday of june?

day mtm of the entire plaza at the flags, bagpipes flags, bagpipes, everybody shows up in the address blue uniforms with white gloves and all the family shows up and it is a marvelous and wonderful location. they gather together to honor all of acts of true bravery by firefighters and emergency service responders. they go through one by one but i would get the pitchers and it struck me again that this is the model of a proud said vacation for those who risk their lives to go into burning buildings to help us. and i looked at the pitchers differently this time thinking about this event even though it is a

wonderful occasion, the crowd does not look like most of new york. part of new york bight i've lived in brooklyn it doesn't look the part that we are in right here. it is a different city. how did that happen? it is an enduring mystery as to how it could be to have a wonderful organization and get for so long when people were so conscious of civil rights and still remains a small number. so we will try to answer a few questions and i will ask

some then we will open it up so you can weigh in on your feelings or questions for those who are up here. i am glad you're able to be here but set the stage where are we at now? president of the vulcan society. congratulations would you looking at in terms of proportion of african-american and/or white or hispanic firefighters? >> currently african-americans right now. [laughter] [inaudible]

every other group of color is under 1% twitter 0.5%. that is where we are not right now 75 years later making these changes have been the numbers are progressively moving up we're hoping 6% is the most we have had in the history of the department. we're hoping to pass that to change those numbers. >> u have been a firefighter since 1999? you have seen some changes you feel as a result that all lots of this book is no legal case that was filed to redress the inequities.

>> because of the lawsuits i think there department had an opportunity to see the most of the excesses we have had some of zero is part of the highest numbers we have ever had. we're making strides so because of the of lawsuits is a possibility in the original amount of women that came was 41 or 46? it is very slow. we're hoping to make great strides we're able to get

more numbers to to your hard work. >> i heard you say at another event that a lot of misunderstanding in terms of whether or not people who failed to get it? but in fact, it is very competitive how high of a number to passer be eligible ? >> that is one of the biggest misconceptions. some of the firefighters were upset save the test was lowering the standards and i passed it but if you get 97 europe not get hired if

anybody got a 90 on the test before the fire departee will not be hired say you cannot say failed the test because they got a 94 that 80 their failed to be hired so if you have african-americans who were not at the top but at the middle they're not getting hired that doesn't mean they failed the test they may have got 88 but the fire department will not allow you to get hired. those are some of the reasons we saw that disparate impact to not reach those goals the way the test was structured to not give minorities the vantage to take the test. >> of lot of people are lined up every time.

>> 26,000 i think. >> there is a reason for that. these are good jobs and stable jobs with a condensed work week but in addition there is something else it is the trickle-down effect that all families have been lucky enough to have firefighters in their family or community it is important that is meaningful from the african-american community. you will understand so tell us about the importance to have firefighters and the family and the community. >> first of all, i have my kids here today all those

curses is attributed to daddy? [laughter] is the type of job if he were not familiar with how good it is a lot of times you don't strive to do it. people think there will be hurt or killed so that makes them shy away. but that is an advantage that black people in the city don't have. i just said my daughter and my older brother was a firefighter are was inspired by them and it made it clear to me this is something i could do. so that is a huge advantage for anybody to claim no big deal is a huge advantage and

hundreds of thousands of flights to. no question. >> what does it mean to the neighborhood to have them come home of the trucks? what message to that sent to the community? >> they were very proud of the black firefighters even if they saw than in the house. , the company that i worked and there is a decent number of blacks in the company and when people in the street see as they respond well. it is important. >> they give for being here and talking about this. 33 years? >> i have been a lieutenant

21 years and went to williamsburg. [laughter] >> what made you become a firefighter? >> geithner:city test started in the construction in union there was no early-retirement so i did the bag came up with 47 years and it wasn't adding up. i knew civil service the only thing i knew about this job was a 20 year pension and you did not get madoff so i took it on that alone. i didn't believe the 20 year pension but i knew was job security i took a pay cut to come to this job so i was making decent money so after

it came on a realized we had so much time off that i call that my a old boss to go back to construction work five days a week and there worked at the firehouse on nights and weekends to save some money. >> i covered labor for years and a lot of the construction trades and the use the father-son locals a lot and i realized you could almost apply that phrase to the fire department and there heard you say it doesn't change very quickly and as a hard time with change. what you mean? directed is just an organization that doesn't believe they can change and they have to be forced. the lawsuit was a great example of that.

. .

we knew about what the problems were and have always breath his problems to the attention of the fire department who was never a problem where they did not no it had to be done but they did not want to do it and make could make them do it. but we finally did was not only bring a lawsuit brought media attention to it and a lot of political power to bear and that is how i got changed, but there are better ways to bring blacks and women and people of color and of the fire department them what is now become, and it is good the way that it is. they never

just want to sit down with us and reason with us and come up with a solution. we had to force them to do it. all of this came from the society. we get a lot of credit, but it truly was a grassroots effort, but it was only that society. the hispanic society in the women's organization not only did not join us in the lawsuit but they did not join us in the other actions we were taking. listed as far away from us as they could. they wanted to be safe and nice and so on more benefits than us. hispanics are coming out of a job at a high percentage. and they did absolutely nothing to bring this around. city hall, the mayor, the commission, they knew what they had to do.do. he met a couple times. and the tuna marshals well.

and mayor bloomberg's aides always like to brag about the fact that he was a cut above other politicians because he was data-driven. he only paid attention to the numbers. but somehow when he told him that there was such a 50 percent of the city was black and hispanic and there was a much lower number in that apartment he did not get those numbers apparently at one point when the judge in brooklyn was rolling he said this is the craziest thing he has ever heard. what did you make of mayor bloomberg's response to your efforts to get him to come around under question how much we wanted to see the change, the entire society.

we 1st bought an eeoc complaint. that complaint was substantiated, and the eeoc said okay, fire department and vulcan sit down and work this problem out. theout. the fire department refused to come to the table to talk about it. and they went to the justice department. investigator for about two years and found the same thing and said the same thing the fire department, sit down and work this out only will bring a lawsuit and they still refuse to do it, and that is how we ended up with the lawsuit because they just refuse to listen to reason. >> he clearly underestimated you. i guess the thing that i wonder as reporters, do you

feel that city hall understood there was a problem that needed to be fixed but was afraid to do it? >> they had to understand the problem. the numbers alone showed you that there was a problem. it was notit was not only bloomberg, the mayors and people who had ran the form. they had to know what the problem was. it wasn't only us telling them it was the practices commission had wrote aa scathing report. other politicians it contacted them and written letters. it was not just us. it was everybody, and it was obvious. when you looked at the list, they gave these exams and look to see where minorities were all blacks were always in the middle. it wasit was just obvious, list after list after list. we only sued for the last two, but the list before that, just wanted to.

it wasn't like they didn't know. everybody knew it and then there were other things. >> also just listening to ginger one of the things ginger said she tried to do as a reporter is to figure out from city hall why to this day she doesn't even no why they decided to go forward with this lawsuit and looking at the number. still don't know why and one of the reasons might have come close to an explanation was the gentleman from the chiefs the said he thinks that bloomberg might have been pushing the fact that we said that the department intentionally discriminated, and he probably was so defiant against having that

label on him and his administration that that was probably part of the reason that they fought back. to this day we don't know why and they losing every time we would, something they would lose. got up there and explained how there procedures were and saw. they losing every time. they just kept pushing being indignant. what we call long and strong >> trying to say one thing. when i went through a discovery in the lawsuit in 1999, they could have mounted challenges even earlier. but the preparation of that test there was a fire department official who wrote a memo and it's all their black and white

writing to the agency. so somebody within the fire department tried to raise a flag and say we have had complaints about this. there were allegations. has anybody looked into it. it. and there was no answer, nothing in the record, no response to that. normally they cut off rate is 70. that year for reasons that have never been made clear they went and set the passing rated 84 .65. even then got a memo and said your going to be hurting minorities even more because they tend to be an abandon the high '80s. that is even compounding the problem, and they did it anyway.

>> let's talk for a couple of minutes before we opened up. ginger opened with this incredibly gripping story about to washington as a young peruvian starting out in what he encountered. some of the stuff in the book about the casual use of the n-word around the station house,, some of the stuff that other people think, i got called an ethnic slur. i am curious, what is it like now? a lot more craftier. >> the fire department is a

microcosm of america. things are much more subtle.subtle. it's just much more subtle than it was in the past. >> i have to agree with that. >> and people look at you? >> just like to washington said it is subtlety. the last person i got called the n-word when approached they said i said neighbor. >> close, no cigar. >> we started out going, what it means. when you come in in my

files, 13 of us. as always 13 firefighters on duty. three or four are black and three or four hispanic you have a whole different hemisphere. one person of color one woman it's a lot harder. ultimately enough of us coming on the job. >> there has been blowback as well. stories in new york post fairly regularly over the last few months of the people who they say got in because of the lawsuit should not be on the job. a steady stream of anonymous folks who are supposed to allegedly, the fellow firefighters, lowered the standards.

what's going on here. should i be concerned as a citizen? >> i think that not every one that is on the fire department is 100%. nobody is 100%. there are people that no they job and no their job well. there are some that no their job and some of the don't really know there job. but i think that the no a job. but i think that the level of performance and excellence is the majority of the job. so with every job you have people that don't really hone in on their craft. they are they're and come to work. but to speaking, this is just really weird to me. one of the things we arewe're having a problem within the department is the leaking of information. you know, you are hearing, you know, stuff that is really precise about people's numbers in the scores and violating people,

you know, what's going on in a time and training. so the leaks they definitely have to take care of. ifof. if you read these articles you will see, it's only with people of color and women. you cannot tell me that way people do not do things that are not always done correctly. you have to judge the person as they come and not just consider a person of color. they talk about johnson now. he is a priority higher. what do we do to look at what we are doing. they don't know what johnson story is.

did the post ever put in an article about jordan sullivan? they have a metal today. >> it's about jordan sullivan. >> worked in 105 to 19 and had to five you save your child out of a burning building, got a right of the new york times has been recognized by a lot of different agencies, and today he received the medal. he is someone who came through the society. we helped train him and got him -- we collectively help to get him on the job, but he definitely worked hard to do he was diligent and precise about what he wanted and went after it. due to the fact that he trained hard he received a metal today. does the post right about that? there are a few people that are priority hires that have gotten medals and on priority ask your renown no one can say that priority higher score people on the job can't do it. theseit. these people have a lot more knowledge of the world and how it really works and no the responsibilities of having a job. if you are

going to print it, printed right. >> fair enough. >> we are going to open it up for folks who would like to ask questions. i don't know if there is aa mike they're would like to be passed around. shoot up your hand if we will pass to the mic. >> is going to correct something that his brother said. >> not right now. >> mike, paul, virginia, you should be applauded. the events in these type of issue since you came on the job. you brought it so far forward. appmack. >> and i have a question for the author. i'm surprised you had to use such rough language in a firehouse.

ginger, what got you interested in the fire department and particularly this issue and what is your next project? >> retiring. from writing. i don't have a firefighter pension, so i we will be working for a long time.a long time. i was assigned to cover the fire department. and ii thought i would get a great education. one of the 1st press conferences was the society. it was a fascinating story and i was so naïve about the city and how it worked in civil service that it was all brand-new and i thought it was fascinating and covered it for about ten years. >> and we are glad you didn't put together the book. who else? >> thank you so much for your service. my grandfather was a firefighter. i was there the other day because we had a death in the family.

what it was like before and after. feel that maybe some of this pushback and negative reporting is coming from kind of like a feeling that maybe it is bringing down the reputation of fdny around the world post- 911 due to the issues that have been going on for many years >> well, sometimes they use 911 as an excuse. ourour image across the world, new york city fire department is so high that it is a shame are saying all these bad things about the fire department and bringing the image down, but that is just an excuse. >> you are somebody, somebody who you help recruit.