in all walks of life. i have had the unique religion fortunate experience of making my way to some of the best educational institutions of the country but undocumented immigrants have obtained success at a very high level in contributions are marginalized because of a discourse and i'm not as solid a relic donald trump although donald trump has gotten much of the news today. i'm thinking of the conversation that revolves around undocumented immigrants as you know legal, people beyond the law. the core of my memoir is an attempt to engage in the conversation and showed that the undocumented are contributing across the united states and are poised to make a significant and

far-reaching contribution to u.s. society. if we allow to secure the legal status that would prevent them from living precariously marginalized. >> host: the lack of legal status, the day you had growing up to find you and told me it was really good drumming in the back row music of your life. talk about the beginning of your life here in new york when you came at age four, how you were babbling some english commissars vanish on the plane from dominican republic. what was your experience when you were young growing up in new york. >> guest: my first memories of new york are all of the amazingness boundaries -- amazing discoveries. it was a place much different from where i came from. little by little i began to

learn what it was and my parents came out that there is something peculiar, not quite right about our immigrant situation and even though i was five, six, seven and trying to piece together conversations i was having with my parents, i understood something was going on that affected us and among other things met my parents couldn't secure regular work. my earliest memories i think of my subway rides and walking with my parents in neighborhoods and most memories are infiltrated by a sense of anxiety that came with the knowledge may the knowledge my parents weren't able to secure employment, my parents were unable to pay the rent. all of that contributed to this sense of unease in the location. >> host: in fact, your father decided he could no longer

produce the living he wanted in new york. he couldn't get steady employment so he went back to the dominican republic. it was your mom's decision to keep you in your younger brother here. she told me a some point she learned how well you are doing that was one aspect that made her decide we've got to keep the family here. talk about that faith will decision she made to keep you here despite being undocumented. >> host: the decision evolved over several years. initially it had to do a conversation with my mom and dad had where they learned i was really taking to kindergarten. >> host: what was her name? >> guest: i had a couple. there were two others at my school in the bronx and continuing in the first. there were more conversations with first grade teachers and

one thing that came out of the conversation was not only was i enjoyed the class i was enjoying the process of learning english and was taken with the possibility of learning a new language and i embraced it and i seemed very at ease in the classroom. my mom was inspired by these conversations of low degree permit children to have an education from a wonderful thing to be exposed here. my dad was very worried because one of the difficulties that presented itself was precisely the issue of not being able to secure steady employment and not being able to support us in the way he wanted to. eventually things can go ahead. he wanted to return with us and she said no we should stay. i will stay with the kids here

and will forge a life on her own in new york city and i will make it so my children have the best educational opportunities available here in new york city. >> host: were it not for your mom's decision would not be here today. do you ever resent the decision because it made life so difficult for you? >> guest: with the benefit of hindsight it was perplexing for me when my dad left to realize we would be on her own and i couldn't fully process the implications of that. i didn't know if and when he might reconsider and come back. i couldn't have known have committed my mom was, this determination that we were going to stay no matter what and it was only the passage of time she

was absolutely serious. nothing would make her change. she saw somehow a nice something that led us to believe in the system that we would overcome and children an alliance with her vision of what we could accomplish. >> host: at the same time suing shelters in chinatown, you are to return finding books and making them part of your world whether it be pulling out of dumpsters, rescuing bugs or finding the book that was life-changing in the shelter in chinatown. talk about the book of how we live in ancient greece and rome. what did that say to you as a

9-year-old child? >> as you mentioned, i had an attachment for books from this early age that was filled by my parents. they insisted their children read and they encouraged us to look out for any and every opportunity. this began to manifest in curious ways number six, seven and eight because we didn't have money and yet i would see books on the street and want to take them home. when we move to the shelter system i spent a fair amount of time in the library and initially was picking out history books or profiles of countries for which i wanted to travel at some point. i read a lovely book on spain but then i came across a book of how people live in ancient greece and rome. i was struck by the sense this is a world completely unlike the world i knew.

there were no people from contemporary new york who lived in this world. he spoke these languages. >> there may be people. >> you never know. this book gave a sense of what a legacy might be. the book is about the cultural legacy from greek and roman culture to our own culture. what is this mean and i really planted the seed for my interest in the study of ancient history and helped put me on the path to my becoming a pacifist. >> host: that's amazing when you think about the fact you are now in academics, you have chosen a discipline that is not

only rare and some would say dying, it is pretty esoteric. we have got work to thank. what do you love about the classics? how did they speak to you even to this day? >> i've several things. they all lead to various aspects and stages of my involvement proceeded in a linear way simon to one stage and they all ultimately converge. >> lanier meaning for joe -- >> an earlier stage the language in the texan i realized thanks to the inspired teaching of this wonderful teacher i had a collegiate from the seventh grade to the end of high school that the languages, learning the languages would equip me with a capacity to approach authors who

wrote passages i found to be beautiful. so the poetry of horror or even caesar or the moralizing -- but then i realized another dimension that would be coming over more time compelling and a realization of the classics allowed you to work with different kinds of material. i was very close to. going down all these different rabbit holes that allowed you an empowered year. you have to think of the ruins of great romans. you have to think about what it means to study history, what makes something two dozen years ago that different. the final aspect is seeing how

the legacy infiltrates so much of what we do now. hip-hop features engagements with the classical tradition. i'm interested in how in the dominican republic is a continuous preoccupation with the greek and roman path so it's a live and this is what i hope to convey for students. >> it has a message about immigration. with questions as most people do. maybe tell us about the ration and let the words of the ancient said about foreigners and how you can relate those weird to today. >> in my early teenage years i was very fond of copying down cool tax and very resonant and

even if i cannot exactly figure out what it was about the text that resonated. i was trying to make my way through history of the peloponnesian war and this was when i was in middle-school. i was still very much in the historically accessed part of my classes. i want to know why they are in spite of each other. there is this fantastic athenian spaces and that is reimagined and the speeches delivered at the beginning of the peloponnesian war. one of the things he focuses on is what makes athens so special and by implication what makes sparta not special. one of the points he lingered on is the idea, the reality that afghans do not support foreigners. sparta had been known and was

known in the age of world is a place that would engage an occasional deportation of foreigners. it was also so much more that resonated with me at various points in my lessons then. they talk about how the love does not make one fog for someone to forge a sense of identity that revolved around intellectualism mattered a great deal separating text and the preoccupations i better understood what happened to me as i was going into my own sense of self. >> i always feel in talking to you that i have been in a seminar. we have so much to talk about but you have so much to teach everybody. anything from history to philosophy in ancient greece and

not to mention baseball which we will get to later. you talk about being intellectual and your intellectual pursuits. you are a teenager living in an area that is not known for intellectual pursuit and a lot of your friends don't appreciate your intellectualism. so how do you bridge these two worlds by now we have skipped in your biography here.new to collegiate and isolate high school because of the scholarship, because if you're reading a history book you were discovered by an art teacher. but you also commute between these two worlds. how do you do that? do you go into a phone booth? audi rectifier personalities. >> guest: at the nuts and bolts level collegiate sub

address could hear it i was worried in my neighborhood that i would get jumped. every time i walk to the subway station are what make sure not to have my tie on and when i came back and got off at the subway station before walking home i would take my tie off. in addition to that there was more of a complicated interplay and how i began to understand myself against the backdrop of my trafficking within these two worlds. i realize the special place i fell in love with from the first days placed a tremendous and this was the social kurds today.

you have to show you read books and are knowledgeable enough. there is a catch though you couldn't be too advantageous. you have to calibrate your presentation that on one hand it could be off the cuff and i read it and you couldn't come up to your friends and say i read plato last night because they would mock you. >> host: which friends would you say i read plato to? >> guest: i would say to their friends at collegiate. it wasn't enough to announce to the world. you have to code it. but i realized as i was going back to melt neighborhood there is a different kind of coding i was doing too. at first i thought it can't be intellectual.

they would guess that. it took me many years to realize they did that side and were willing to accept that. that was well after we had grown up that not only had they had tremendous respect, but in their own way they communicate and convey that what i was doing even though they tease me at the time. it is through the back of worth of figuring out these two different kinds of things from the people of collegiate to say you brag about reading plato said that we will tease you and then there are the schoolbooks and we can talk about them versus going back to my neighborhood feeling i could talk about these tags but everyone knew i was going through the reread all of these

and in their own ways they want to talk about them with me overlooking for a vocabulary and a way of doing so. i was one of the more confusing aspects. >> host: vocabulary. i love how you bring out where to because your memoir has the wonderful juxtaposition that i found jarring in and talking to you i now understand it. you've got high pros academic speaking and writing a new blood in them. you've got a curse word and discussions sex and socrates. it's quite a fascinating juxtaposition. tell me how you write in two different ways. >> host: first i thought that was the only way i could capture my own linguistic and social worlds and i worried at an early

stage that were right to structure one toner one register i would be doing a profound disservice. so much of the experience of my childhood not a licensed revolved around questions of language, questions of mastery or the learning of language. one of the many aspects i wrestled with as a teenager and young adult was when do you transition from one blast to another. when you shift in why the shift. so one has to think about this and i thought i had ink about it. it became over time almost unconscious. there is no point out which active reflection on this as far away from my mind. i'm always thinking about it but

i became accustomed to doing it pretty easily. so that gave me a sense of empowerment, but i also realized it was difficult to understand and appreciate it. i have friends who say this is me you can do this and they would play this game with me. >> host: which friends would say that? >> guest: eyed college friends who are fascinated by this but i never listen other dimension may talk about this that focuses on a friend very recently. there was an aspect i realized all supposed challenges of navigation through the social identity. what would it mean to me if someone began my speech pattern. would have bothered me? was nfl's though distinctive and how is maneuvering from one to

the other for anyone else to do that would strike me as somehow crossed it when appropriate so i had to make my peace with that. the realization not everyone would accept my linguistic game at the level and sensibility i was approaching it. i was a way of making myself feel empowered about the identity i saw. other people have different reasons and i had to acknowledge and respect. >> host: didn't you convert your british friends to calling people crawlers are using this line. >> guest: some of my friends picked this out. on one hand i thought i was sharing something with them that they were learning this word for these words and we were using them very playfully and new as

they tactics were becoming better friends. we were forming the community that used words and similar way. there was always a sense of lingering unease. so did i. always feel comfortable with this? no. but the question becomes how do i assess and evaluate what constitutes a comfortable acceptable usage and what doesn't in the secondary question is not secondary important. if they want to use these words, certainly i was being too cavalier, too easy. so they should be allowed to do this too. it should be their freedom to use these words i share with them however they want. >> host: your worlds collided

at one point in the book and some of the suspense is out because you've written a book so we know how far you have com and how you succeeded that there is a moment your status was in jeopardy and trying to be cool, referring to the tower records in the name. in your book you describe it with we are going to do this. he said a lot better than i would. what motivated you to go in and take cds and shoplift and realize this could've been the one incident that ruined all of my dreams. >> guest: there were many motivations. i spent a lot of time with my neighborhood friends throughout most of high school and we began to scale up the level of our

frame and initially the pranks are on the order of things involving seats on the train with moisturizer or lotion. then we would entertain crazier and crazier ideas. one day one of them suggested to take all of this stuff and sell some of that. one of the aspects i tried to shine a light on is the mastermind's revolved around my friend and me is a genius. this is one of the first moments i realize they thought i was smarter than they were giving me credit for being smarter. so that was very flattering but

it also enticed me and lured me into thinking, well, i am smart enough to pull this off. but really is wrong anyway. we each had our own rationalizations but when we were together it wasn't too justified. you had to play pool. are you going to do this or not. so we did this for some of us were caught and it was only been apprehended at the magnitude of this colossal mistake and the mistakes became so crystal clear. i was in a world of trouble and every single privilege i've been introduced and allowed to ask aryans to down the road going to

an ivy league school, this could've bought ended and then i could've also been deported down the road. it is really enough moment that so many began to snap into focus. there were other moments after that, but the realization i had done something wrong the nature of the system became clear to me and there's another dimension that this realization that the outcomes of these kinds of things for asymmetric. i could've gotten deported for this. for some of my friends come at the outcomes would've been different. had some of my collegiate

friends done this, they were slightly different reasons like the fact that my friends would've been well-positioned to make a problem of this kind go away. these thoughts were what kept me thinking about the internet for many years after it took place. >> host: and you got off with a fine but she didn't tell your mom immediately and you had your parish priest help you out with the $400. to this day you are quite lucky and feel quite happy about it. by the way, tower records doesn't exist. >> guest: anything i can contribute. >> host: exactly. let's talk about what you have been when you get to print send and start realizing her having to pay for scholarships but having to do work study, doing all these goodies that led to your senior year of now what, i want to study abroad.

i want to get a scholarship to oxford. how did you realize by the end of your senior year that this is a problem and i need an immigration lawyer on board and i need to start changing my status. >> guest: that determination unfolded in several stages. when i was admitted to princeton initially they gave me a very nice financially package. even that was not the most forwarded issues because prior to applying i have been encouraged to speak out and explain what my status was and will be factored into the assessment of my application. then i realized my financial aid package included a work-study component and i couldn't work

and when i explained this the answer that came back is why don't you try by applying for a student visa. the answer i received existed you really risky undertaking and the likelihood was high that i would not be able to return to the united states. at that point i said i don't know what other i have. i would consider marriage to a u.s. citizen. i said i'm not going to pursue this. i want to do this the right way which is filing an application and i realized there was no application that could be filed. so now we fast forward to my senior year. i have been thinking about my

undocumented status and following legislative ballot and carefully. it had been introduced in 2001 and had repeatedly gone nowhere despite bipartisan support. when i was transitioning from junior to senior year of college, i didn't have much in the way of power. junior year i had tried to get some of the ball rolling and i reached out to people and everyone came out to the same deep hole. the law does not oblige normalizer status. my senior year i had the good fortune of reconnecting with a lawyer who had been put in touch with and this lawyer helped me put together an application for

your virtual active change to happen. we argue the circumstances of my childhood and the nature have prevented my family from legalizing, from normalizing, so we asked for a richer right to payment with a student visa. i was asking for a student visa so i could finish my time and from there began the process of transitioning. they declined to rule on the application. >> host: at that point also start enlisting and high-powered senators. senator clinton at that point and ted kennedy were writing letters on your behalf and that was initially or maybe you can talk about how this is for the oxford scholarship. it is not right when they started getting on board and writing about how extraordinary you were.

>> host: my lawyer and i thought it does for some high-profile political support. we submitted letters in conjunction with my application and i have been fortunate to have people from collegiate as preparatory component in middle-school to various kinds from politicians. there was another issue that intersected and it was one that ensued from another piece of good fortune that would be a fellowship at princeton to study two years at oxford. this made legalizing status more urgent because were i to ask the

united states about legalizing my status first i would've been barred for 10 years because of the time i've been undocumented. this led to ratcheting it up in trying to enlist as much as we could in order to get this application approved. but the application was not approved and so i decided to take off for the u.k. without having had my status adjusted in facing the likelihood of a 10 year ban and that is when i started at oxford. >> host: you are again but not knowing if you can come back. >> guest: they were emotionally difficult. there is also the standard of a new country and that is not to

say i wasn't having a great deal of fun. i was also enjoying the opportunity to discover oxford, which was a peculiar institution unlike anything i'd ever experienced. it was peculiar because at the graduate level, oxford operated according to a fair principle. we were left to run devices with minimal supervision. it is not even like most graduate programs. we were allowed to follow whatever path we wanted and encourages some measure and the more disciplined him en masse to cobble together papers were theses at the last minute. >> host: are you saying you

are one of the end is the plan? >> guest: i was a roving mind. i was trying to learn new things to and the lack of supervision was that also left some students have a clear idea but in any field and my second year my supervisor was gone. it was once every few. we talk a little bit about the word and that encouraged a great deal of slacking off. even so, one of the questions that lingered was whether i would be able to return to the united states and the intellectual and emotional in my first three months at oxford even after i've been fortunate enough to obtain a work visa.

i had been hired for a research project. when i was hired an application was filed and i then submitted the paperwork in london and after a few months of waiting we finally got word that had been approved. >> host: there is a point at oxford slacking off as you say that you entertained ideas. it gives you the listeners hear a little insight to your personality. you thought about working for major league ace ball. by the way at the very academic

pursuit as i have learned. what was it about his father fascinated you and why did you decide that it's not the career for me? >> i was drawn to working with the publication because i thought that baseball was undergoing the extraordinary transformation. i follow baseball my whole life. my dad and i watched a lot of baseball. i was an avid yankees fan. even my childhood yankees are terrible and then suddenly everything turned to better. one of the questions that has long intrigued me is how we think of baseball in quantitative terms. what's funny about that since i

was not great in math in high school. it was difficult for me to get my mind around certain mathematical concepts. i was drawn to the idea of the analytics and a complex game that as many moving parts and individual players whose contributions nonetheless converged. they had a team dimension. how do you analyze in a value but is. it's how you build a successful baseball team. while i had in the form of yankees evidence for a team that would run as a successful franchise for a long time. but how do you make the franchise? how do you have a team like oakland eighth they did not have the financial wherewithal to nonetheless enjoyed.

money ball. i began to say to myself would be great to work for a very from office for a baseball publication and i pointed at this idea and decided i really like the ancient world too much. but yeah, baseball. >> host: they didn't play baseball back in ancient greece and rome. but what i love about this idea of your fandom and the fact that the yankees all comes full circle because you are waiting to green card interview because he recently got married in your first day was a set up at a yankees game. so here it all comes full circle. just so everybody knows, you did the dirt now wife missy for six

years. so this is not and they get married a u.s. citizen. this is a friendship that evolved from baseball and intellectual pursuit and now you go from an undocumented child to hopefully becoming a permanent resident. do you see how your path has taken you? you discuss it? >> guest: we laugh a great deal because when we begin, she did not know some of these early baseball games for it dates. we have to baseball games. one was a group excursion in 2008 organized by one of our mutual friends and came to high school with missy and college with me. i thought she was cool. we became friends on facebook but then i thought of touching

part of the reason was i was consumed with adjusted my immigration status that fall because i discarded to start a phd program but they needed to train-ish and out of my work visa status into a student visa status instead of doing it all in the fall and winter the following year. the spring of 2009 came around on one day her mutual friend thought a yankees, a's match. the two franchises i've been interested for a long time. i said of course i don't have anything tonight. i will go to this game. with such a great time. at the end they said would you like to go to a name next week. the yankees were not in town next week. so we went to a mets game.

with such a great time but after the game we agreed it would be wonderful to go to more games that is however timely began dating in my first year in california would have long distance which was a marvelous, marvelous development. but now she has seen the kinds of complexities to immigrants trying to change or adjust status. recently we saturday concurrent filing for permanent residency. we got to see all this paperwork and she said my goodness this has been your life commercially not all this paperwork and waiting and not having any clear

idea when you would get an answer back. so now i understand. so it has been a journey of mutual understanding. in part by the yankees in part by a road lived experience. >> host: that is beautiful because you are still waiting for immigration in your interview. i want to read one passage you have at the end in the epilogue that i thought was the message he wanted to leave everybody with and one that pervades the book being capsulized so perfectly. immigrant brothers and sisters, people will yell at you that you have no stake in america, no place in america, you must not let them get on lightly with saying that. you must argue and shut that her hand and feet and minds are as much a part of america as they

are together. we must fight to ensure america remains not the dream of a chauvinistic remind a few, but the fulfillment of hope for many. we are in the ascendant. america is ours and we must not concede otherwise. that almost sounded like it was in the ancient world. this is your message. what do you want to leave readers and viewers of this program today with this optimism despite everything you've been through from a homeless shelter, from poverty to a late privilege and stilted figuring out immigration status. what do you want to leave people with a lesson about perseverance and success. >> there are two lessons the

book in our interview today conveys. the first has to do with immigrants specifically understanding what our role in the society, american society are and what those roles entail. one of the arguments i've made since the publication of the book and one that is woven into the fabric of the book is america cannot be something that is viewed at the exclusive prerogative of those who buy the state importuned happen to have born here. america's power projects all over the world. many people left america's power and were deciding to come here. so what i think about the immigrant experience, what i want to communicate is how went away we have all been integrated, whether with parents or grandparents, with all been

engaged far beyond the simple question of whether one was born in america are one was not. were the process of building communities together and that is a lesson i want to impart. >> host: you also say i hate and i love america. why? >> guest: my ambivalence towards america is an ambivalence towards america the idea in america the political machine. i love the communities. the communities of new york city. the communities of the educational institution and more broadly the communities that expand the entire country and traveled to across the u.s. these are all aspects of my formation of my growth into

adult identity. at the same time, i hate the discourse has been informed the american ideal. this triumphalism, the idea that america can do no wrong because of all the great things it deserves not to be challenged, not to be interrogated. accomplishments should be not in need of any critique. i don't believe we should have less content with what we think america is or what we think america has been. we should also have those who are disliked such as discrimination against the marginalization of vinegar and,

that critique will enable america to become a better place for all of those who died in the continue coming to it. >> host: the future of immigration reform and the dialogue about illegal immigrants taking this job, here you are, you have papers or you are not yet in a citizen teaching formally incarcerated students at columbia as part of your fellowship in a professor at princeton and 2016. you are teaching young, hungry minds about the ancient world and relevance today and yet in many peoples minds you are taking the job of this country. is that just bother you? >> guest: when i was a senior at princeton was reinterviewed not long after the profile of my life came out.

i was asked, how do you feel about the fact you're been at princeton is a perfectly deserving american citizen did not get a chance to attend. my answer was that it doesn't work like this and because princeton is international it is conceivable based on the applications thoroughly comprehensible that i was an international student as much as i was accepted as an american student. the argument that the level of my replace meant kind of falls flat on its face and contextualizing. but there's a broader argument to be made and this is the one there's more general questions of how we understand the job situation in how we understand what it means for immigrants to take opportunity here in people

living here and again this is not a question of zero-sum dynamic because as we know, émigres not only contribute in the form of taxes and security and welfare state, but they also by virtue of the fact they were human beings also drive to produce. their existence opens the possibility that somehow an immigrant has arrived they had taken a job from a well deserving american is about a simplistic and one-dimensional as can be made. one thing incumbent upon everyone who's participating is developed and applied more sophisticated economic argument.

i haven't even made any ethical arguments. the economic extras very complicated and in the longer-term support claims not only allowing current undocumented immigrants to obtain legal status but also reevaluate the nature of our border patrol and point in the direction of not closing them or restrict the number of police in that in the way we have been. >> host: the dream back -- for the dream act ever come to fruition. we have daca in its third year. finish and will go through transition with the new president. >> host: >> guest: that will hinge on who the new president is on the composition of the house and senate. with that in mind, there are a few medium terms worth keeping an eye on.

one is the class of reforms. these are held up in support and it's unclear when it will be resolved and is quite likely the daca problem will not be resolved. so daca is a bundle of undocumented immigrants. what helped expand protections of introducing a larger number of undocumented immigrants. they should be attentive to the dynamics of it. recently it came out this is not terribly shocking news from the mouth of senator mitch mcconnell that there is no

intention of seeing immigration reform through until the next presidential election. this is infuriating for those of us committed to immigration activism and do care deeply reform should also position us to the backwards and forward. it's a position of backward that we should be thinking about what the white house isn't doing the past few years. in the view of us who believe it the large-scale deportation in the first half of obama's administration are not only ever have principle justifiable but they also point to an issue that has to be resolved in the next presidential election which is holding those who believe in some form expanded immigration protections for.minute, holding their feet to the fire.

we have to interrogate politicians who say they will reform and then say we will broker the agreement and allow them to divorce him and keep others here. how were those informed by underlying values? i think that this have to commit to pushing back as much as possible. >> host: i think we should end with the past because that is what has formed your present and near future. i know at one point that might have had a little bit of aid in the form of libations so we are not going to do that here today but i would love for you to share with some of our viewers the quotes you keep very dear to

your heart in latin and greek, the saying letter per to view. they believe this all with a couple of those and why they inform your life. >> host: >> guest: there's all these tax that flow and out of my life but i will choose just a few. one of the poems that i first learned when learning ancient greek was the spiel poem which began -- it is a marvelous poem about attilakiss or the person imagined as a poet setting down his shield and running away. so there's many different lessons that can be learned from

this poem. one is when to cut your losses or what does that mean to posture as cowardly even though you're doing so very outwardly do you have in fact done something so idea nonetheless maneuver and help shape their perception. the latin text i think about is when you've alluded to, [speaking latin] i don't know, but i feel it on and feel i am being tortured. one romantic attachment disorder the columns to maneuver back and

forth between intense love and extraordinary hate, which my wife is something she feels from time to time when i decided when i decide to not cannot clean the apartment but it speaks to how they have greek and roman developed this incredibly complicated ecology of the motion and how that complexity of emotion is something we should all be trained to not only appreciate it to reflect on an everyday basis. to have these poems lingering as a sign of how enriching it can be and this reason i keep all of these latin and greek semi hand. >> host: you are a humanist above all. you are so many things as you write in this book and yet you don't want to be labeled as one even though undocumented is the one you bring out.

were readers of your book and viewers can take away is the humanistic education is relevant for all of us in everything we do and i thank you for sharing all of your views and experiences with us today. >> guest: thank you so much. this was delightful. >> host: thank you, dan-el. >> guest: thank you.

>> now we're live with author and former active lady, lynne chaney. she will be answering your questions from now until 3:00 eastern. ms. cheney has written several books including her most recent, a biography of james madison. ..