>> and the future of space travel. >> c-span, created by america's cable companies 35 years ago and brought to you as a public service by your local cable or satellite provider. >> and now on "the communicators," we want to introduce you to gary epstein. he is chair of the fcc incentive

auction task force. mr. epstein, what does that mean? >> guest: thank you, peter. i'm happy to be here. i am the head of the task force at the fcc which is responsible for implementing the incentive auction which is a first-time-ever auction at the fcc for spectrum. >> host: and the incentive auction is the auction, the spectrum auctions involving the broadcasters, correct? >> guest: indeed, it is. it is what's called a two-sided auction which for the very first time will acquire spectrum from broadcasters in a so-called reverse auction and then turn around, repackage it and make it available to the wirelessç carriers9jz a forward auction. so it is a back-to-back auction, a reverse auction and a forwardq auction. >> host: well, two follow-ups to that. the fcc has set march of 2016 as the date for the incentive auctions to happen. a, will that date hold and, b,

how long have you been working on this? >> guest: the auction commences on march 29th, 2016, and we do intend to hold to that date. all the commissioners are supportive of that, and i think all of the stakeholders are too, are too. i can answer your question about how long i've been working on it in two ways. when i've been back at the commission since april of 2012, and in some sense i think i've been working on it for 44 years which is how long i've been working in the area. >> host: but this has been in the works since 2012. >> guest: correct. and congress passed a statute in february of 2012, and the commission turned right to implementing it. and we've been working ever, ever since 2012 to put it into effect. >> host: one final question before we bring in our guest reporter, and that is in august the fcc voted rules for the incentive auction. broadly speaking, what are some of those rules? >> guest: they really have to do with the actual detailed rule ares for implementing the

auction -- rules for implementing the auction. there really were two stages. in about a year ago, the commission adopted the broad principles and rules in something called the incentive auction report and order. this is called the procedures public notice, and it goes to really the next level about how to set opening bid prices, where, what spectrum levels we will, we will seek to acquire, who's eligible to bid for the rules and a whole series of detailed rules to make the auction actually happen. >> host: gautham nagesh with "the wall street journal" is joining us. >> thanks for having me back, peter. gary, so this incentive auction, as you mentioned, is about taking spectrum from broad -- tv broadcasters and reallocating it to the wireless companies. why do you guys feel that the broadcasters are the right place to go for spectrum, and how much spectrum are you hoping to get from this auction?

>> guest: nagesh, gautham, it is a congressional determination that was made in the spectrum act. and one thing i do want to emphasize, that we're not taking spectrum from broadcasters. it is a voluntary auction on behalf of the spectrum -- on behalf of the broadcasters. broadcasters consider, continue to be an extremely valuable service, but congress passed this act where broadcasters on a one-time-only basis will be able to relinquish their spectrum rights in return for a share of the proceeds of the forward auction. and so what it is, is congress' determination and the fcc's implementation to use market forces to make available more low-band spectrum to meet wireless broadband needs. in other words, the need for broadband spectrum is burgeoning by multiples and exponentially. there isn't a lot of good low-band spectrum left, and this is a new, novel method congress

has put in place and the fcc is to implement. >> you explain why low-band spectrum in particular is desirable or well suited for wireless? >> guest: low-band spectrum is defined as spectrum below one gigahertz, and it has actual propagation characteristics, the physics of it, which allow it to go long distances and through buildings better than mid-band or high-band spectrum. it's called covered spectrum as opposed to capacity spectrum which is the higher bands. this is the last low-band spectrum which will be available from the fcc for the foreseeable future. >> so as you mentioned, these airwaves or spectrum will allow wireless carriers to cover much larger areas in terms of -- >> guest: much larger areas and penetration through buildings. you know, all types of spectrum are valuable. we just recently had a spectrum auction for mid-band spectrum, the so-called aws-3 spectrum. that was more capacity spectrum.

this is the coverage spectrum which has different characteristics. >> host: mr. end steam, to go back to the aws-3, the price of that spectrum was more than double what you expected, wasn't it? >> guest: well, expectations of the analysts, okay, were probably in the $20 billion range at the high end. actually, $44 billion was received, bid and received by the fcc with respect to the spectrum. so, yes. turns out it was really pretty valuable. and it looks like a good sign for the low-band auction coming up. >> host: what if a broadcaster does not want to sell his or her spectrum? >> guest: broadcaster is completely free to take a thurm of options. -- a number of options. number one is not to participate at all. and if a broadcaster decides not to participate, we have a statutory obligation to protect the areas and populations of that broadcaster and the broadcaster will keep broadcasting in its home band.

second thing is the broadcaster can relinquish all of its spectrum and participate in the spectrum, but there are two other options. the broadcaster can decide to channel share with another auction -- another operator, another broadcaster and participate in the auction. and then finally, a broadcaster can go from uhf to vhf, put its uhf channel in the auction and receive a vhf channel in return. the key thing is the first thing, a broadcaster does not have to participate at all and will be protected as a broadcaster in its home band. >> host: is there fear from local communities that they will be losing some of their local broadcast coverage? >> guest: it's a good question. some issues have been raised, and i think that the commission has taken good steps in certain areas with respect to, for example, public broadcasting and other really important services. but, you know, overall i think

probably with the channel sharing and the u to v options and the migration of some video services to the internet, that the public will not lose service overall. >> the fcc has released some preliminary projections or estimates of both the high and the low end for what they think stations could potentially get for their spectrum. we see especially in major markets that these and markets in the vicinity of major markets, these projections are very high, this the hundreds of millions of dollars -- in the hundreds of millions of dollars in some cases. do you think that's going to hold true at the auction itself, and what are the implications then for the broadcast industry? because many of these stations do seem to be more valuable for their airwaves than as going businesses. >> guest: let me explain what those numbers are, okay? those numbers were in a report we called the green hill report where we commissioned an investment banking firm to treat

what we were doing as a business opportunity. because we're not all that great at that, so we needed some outside help to do that. but the fcc generated the numbers. and, gautham, what they are are opening bid numbers. they're not predictions of what a broadcaster will actually receive in the auction. but they are the numbers that we will put on the table for opening bids for broadcasters. in the order that the fcc just adopted in august, we set the final formula for opening bid prices. it's very close to what the estimates were a couple of months ago. and so i think those are the prices that the broadcasters will see for opening bids. let me make one other point which i think is really crucial for broadcasters. the opening bid prices will be made public. more than 60 days, 60 days or more before the close of the window for broadcasters and wireless carriers to file their applications. if a broadcaster wants to

participate, all it has to do is file an application and say i commit to that opening bid. and that application, by law, is anonymous. we will then start the auction, which is called the reverse auction. it starts high and moves down through competition. if the number drops $1 or $10 or a million dollars, the broadcaster has the absolute right to say i'm out, and i want to go back to my home band, and i want to continue broadcasting in my home band and be protected as if i were never in the auction at all. and that's why the chairman has said this is a no-lose proposition. a broadcaster, we will publish the opening bids. a broadcaster will then decide whether to participate in the auction. at the opening bid price. if it may -- it may get the opening bid price, but we suspect there will be competition among the broadcasters. anytime during that process the broadcaster can say i'm out, and i want to go to my home band.

and that's the end of it. and the participation will be kept nonhouse. >> host: mr.-- anonymous. >> host: mr. epstein, the fcc is setting the opening businesses, is that correct? >> guest: it's a reserve price like any auction, yeah. the fcc adopted a formula in august. the commission itself, not the staff, adopted a formula which has two components to it. one component is the amount of interteerns that the station causes. ultimately, we're seeking to get spectrum back. and so it's relevant to the value of the station in the auction how much interference it causes. the second component of the formula is what's called interference-free population. how many people does that cover? none of this has to do with the fair market value or the growing concern value of the station. we're seeking spectrum. so the opening bid prices are based upon spectrum. >> host: and you also said that it's anonymous bid? >> guest: correct. >> host: anonymous to whom?

>> guest: anonymous to the outside world. you know, if you as a broadcaster choose to say i'm participating, that's fine. but when you feel your application -- file your application with the fcc, we will not disclose to anyone the fact that you're participating in the auction. >> host: gautham nagesh. >> thank you. as you mentioned, the value of the spectrum has been perhaps underestimated by analysts and people in the markets, and the recent aws-3 auction, the mid-band spectrum, drew $45 billion which was larger than many of us expected. one of the factors that drove bidding higher in many markets was the fact that two companies affiliated with dish network were bidding multiple times on some of the spectrum. now, i know this isn't part of the incentive auction, but the fcc in august moved to, essentially, remove discounts

those smaller companies got. can you explain perhaps some of the thinking behind that, and will that affect the dynamic in the incentive auction at all? >> guest: there are a couple related questions i think you have there. the fcc adopted new rules on participation and bidding credits in august in the decision, and what it did was it was concerned about, you know, how the rules were being used, whether they truly benefited small business. so it basically put caps on and tightened up the rules in a number of respects. that will apply to the incentive auction. and so there are special rules for bidding credits, there's something called the market-based reserve which are part of the incentive auction, and i think the commission's new rules will affect bidding to that extent. now, the other thing that happened and i think as i know you're aware of this is just, you know, recently the commission determined that

certain participants in the aws-3 auction were not eligible for bidding credits. and so that will be, you know, part of the analysis for participation in the incentive auction. >> now, of course, the broader question is the purpose of the auction, it seems, is to real locate spectrum to the -- reallocate spectrum to the wireless industry, but who exactly constitutes the wireless industry? for example, dish network holds quite a bit of spectrum, but they are as of now not in the wireless business. they're a satellite tv company for the most part. and we also see that there are really four major national wireless carriers and some smaller wireless players. there was a lot of debate over whether spectrum should be set aside in the incentive auction for some of the smaller players. can you explain why the commission landed where it did on that decision and where it landed? >> guest: indeed. remember what i said, note what i said before that this is low-band spectrum.

certain carriers, certain of the major carriers have the great majority of low-band spectrum that's been allocated over the years, the 800 megahertz spectrum that's out there and the like. so the commission set up something which was fairly unique here. it set up something called a market-based reserve which will set aside in each geographic market up to 30 megahertz of spectrum for carriers who are eligible to bid in that market. and the standard for eligibility is in that market holding one-third or less of the one gigahertz spectrum in that market. it's about 45, 45 megahertz worth of spectrum. so there is a market base reserved done for the very first time. and a market-based reserve springs into existence at the time that the bidders who are eligible to bid for it make a, you know, meet a reserve price which has been set by the commission and pay their share of the costs of the

broadcasters. so it's innovative, it's new, it's something which is designed for those wireless providers who do not have any of the low-band spectrum. doesn't mean that the established carriers won't have a lot of spectrum to bid on. we would expect and welcome their participation in the auction too. >> should spectrum be available to companies that aren't in the wireless industry? because there's a lot of concern that the high prices and the appreciation are causing speculators to get in the market especially given the fact that they're not, we're not creating any new airwaves and that the value is likely only to increase? >> guest: well, there are two sides to this. there -- where there may or may not be speculators involved. one side is the reverse side, okay? are there people who have bought up broadcast stations with the intelligent of selling them this the -- intent of selling them in the auction? i think the answer is, yes, and

i don't think there's anything wrong about that. broadcasters have to make the choice about whether or not they want to participate in the auction, and some entrepreneurs have bought some stations from the broadcasters and may well participate. on the forward auction side, i think we've tried to make the opportunities for more competition, okay, by having this market-based reserve, but there are buildout requirements on the forward auction side. so it's less likely, and we don't see, you know, entrepreneurs or more speculators that are involved. anybody's eligible to bid. there's not a requirement on the forward auction side that you previously have been in the wireless industry. and we encourage new entry and new participants. the only limitation is this market-based reserve i mentioned. >> host: gary epstein, you talked about bidding credits. what does that mean? >> guest: bidding credits means it's an established process that the fcc has. it's been used for decades now. entities that are eligible for bidding credits get to bid at

the normal rate but then get a discount when they actually have to pay. so, for example, a bidding credit of 15% would be if i bid $100 and somebody else bid 90 and i won because i bid 100, i actually only pay 85. >> host: and how do you qualify for those bidding credits? are you a smaller company? are you a smaller user of spectrum? >> guest: that's right. in the decision gautham was just talking about just recently, and this was a broader decision which alies to the incentive -- applies to the incentive auction and other auctions, the commission established a rule for who's eligible for bidding credits, tightened up the rules, and it's primarily small businesses who meet certain characteristics. but there's a new 15% bidding credit for rural telephone providers. so it's those entities which as a public policy matter the commission determined should be eligible for bidding credits. >> host: now, when it came to setting the rules for the spectrum auction or the incentive auction, it was a

partisan vote, 3-2, by the commission. what were some of the concerns expressed by the republican commissioners? >> guest: well, i don't -- we've had a whole series of decisions. some of them have been 3-2, some of them have been 5-0. i much prefer 5-0 votes, but there are policy differences among our commissioners. and one of them really has to do with this market-based reserve that we talked about. i think that's one of the key ones that's there. two of the dissenting commissioners aren't this agreement with the policy set by the heart for the reserve and how it -- the majority for the reserve and how it operates and how large it is. there are other policy issues about, you know, pricing for the broadcasters, but if i had to pick one where there's the biggest division, it has to do with the reserve. >> we hear at the "wall street journal" that some broadcasters are exploring the possibility of forming a coalition of their own

and selling spectrum directly to the wireless carriers. now, i know the fcc has the authority to approve license transfers, but how would the fcc in genre act to something like that, and would it be allowed under the rules? >> guest: yeah. i think there are practical and legal issues. there's no fundamental objection to it. this has been tried over the years a number of times. i think the biggest problem is when i describe what the auction was, i said really it had three parts. one of them is the reverse auction where we buy spectrum from the broadcasters, but then what we do is reorganize and repack it into a smaller, more efficient tv band. and then we turn around and take the broad spectrum that we've been able to get as a result of this repacking and sell it to -- auction it to the wireless providers. one-off bases or groups of broadcasters don't have the fundamental power to reorganize the spectrum. we got that from the act, from the 2012 congressional act.

and there's a $1.75 billion fund which has been set aside for us to reimburse broadcasters. so i think it's the difficulty of putting all of those pieces together which would make the individual station by station or groups of stations much more difficult to do. this is a one-time authority that we have from congress. >> host: are the cable companies worried about -- the cable providers worried about this auction? >> guest: i don't know. [laughter] i think that they would be welcome and eligible to participate to buy spectrum. they've bought spectrum in the past to do so. and competition is good. competition on the video side by the wireless providers, by the cable companies and by the broadcasters are all positive things. >> host: gary epstein, if this auction goes through, it begins march 29th, 2016, is there an end date? and then how soon would this spectrum actually be online?

>> guest: the end date really is a function of the bidding that's involved and, again, this will be longer than most traditional auctions because we have to run two back to back. we have to run, first, a reverse auction and then a forward auction. and i won't, i won't get down into the real details of it, but if we can close in this first round was we don't get enough money from the forward auction to pay the broadcasters, we have to run a second round. we have to lower the clearing target. but we'll get there, okay? i'm talking about a matter of months. not one month or two months, but several months to do that. then there is a transition period which has been set by the commission, and that's 39 months, for the broadcasters to actually be relocated and moved. so there will be an established transition period after the close of the auction for the broadcasters to relocate to their new channels. >> host: why 3w-9 months? >> guest: well, part of the reason is congress gave us, we said you need three months to

actually file your applications, and and congress' authority for us to give out money stopped after 36 more. [laughter] so that's one of the reasons, and a big reason that we picked the 39-month period. our reimbursement authority. and the reimbursement funds come out of the forward auction. ends in 39 -- ends in 36 months after we begin paying it out. >> the markets have been a bit spooked especially concerning the largest wireless carriers like verizon and at&t at the numbers that came out of the aw-3 auction because spectrum is so expensive and it also costs so much to build out the wireless networks. there's concern that the amount of debt the carriers are going to have to carry following the incentive auction is going to really saddle them going forward. we've seen an example of this, i think, in europe when the 3g networks were built out. is this a concern for the fcc that the costs in all these auctions are becoming

prohibitive and may prevent carriers from upgrading their networks this the future? >> guest: i think that the companies that are involved, both the large and mid-sized companies, are financially solvent, financially able, able to borrow money. we've heard them headache commitments to going forward -- them make commitments to going forward in this auction. you know, it is more their issue than our issue. of course we would love their participation but, you know, verizon has announced it's selling certain assets. at&t has just within the last couple days reaffirmed its commitment. t-mobile has talked about participating in the auction. and so i think we're comfortable that they have the financial capacity to go forward. >> and is there enough spectrum for four national wireless carriers or more? are we reaching the point where that's no possible given the demands of data use? >> guest: i think there are two phenomenon that happened out there. one of them is more spectrum, and we're doing our best to make it available. this is an example of that. but then there are all also other technologies, more efficient use of the spectrum,

small cells which are coming at the same side. it's about confidence and innovation of the carriers out there. yeah, i mean, it would be great to get more spectrum out there. that's been an imperative of the obama administration, the commission and all the commissioners, democrat and republican alike, are anxious for this auction to go forward and is be a success. >> host: gary epstein, if and when all this additional spectrum gets online, are consumer costs going to remain the same? are they going to go down because there's more spectrum? are they going to go up because of the expense of the spectrum? >> guest: i think the key is the competition, okay? so things like our market-based reserve and competition itself between the large carriers and the small carriers, you can see it working in the marketplace now. and you can see prices dropping. and that's the phenomenon we would really like to see on -- looking forward. it's one of our goals in this auction. it is to get the spectrum out. it's to get this low-band spectrum out, but to do it in a procompetitive manner.

>> do you have any estimates that you can share with us in terms of a range or a number for both how much spectrum you expect to get and, if possible, what sort of revenue you expect to have available to compensate the broadcasters? >> guest: so far for three years i've ducked that question, but i'll try. and that is, you know, we from a spectrum availability standpoint, the thing i said at the very beginning is that we don't know which broadcasters will show up and in which markets. that's the ultimate determination. that's what makes this auction unique versus, you know, almost any other auction anywhere in the spectrum area. but we've seen, you know, people coming in with estimates of our band plans range from, like, 40 megahertz up to 180 or more megahertz. i think those are both too low and too high, so i think somewhere in the middle. people have talked about 126

megahertz, people have talked about 84 megahertz. so that kind of bounds what we're talking about. and as for proceeds, again, that's really just a function of demand and what's on the wireless side is. i do note that a couple months ago cbo came out with an estimate which said there could be up to $40 billion net which is coming out of this auction. that's after you pay broadcasters. but that's an estimate. and the fcc has never given or made any estimates. >> host: and when you talk about broadcasters, you don't mean just the national channels, but you're talking about the local broadcasters -- >> guest: yep. i'm talking about the approximately 2,000 broadcasters in this country ranging from the largest group owner to the smallest. and in a lot of markets like, for example, take new york there are 25 or 30, i don't know the exact number, stations that are in the market. some of them may feel this is a great opportunity to monetize their investment. maybe they're not making money, maybe they're the fourth or fifth or sixth station in the

market. so as the chairman says, this is a one-time-only opportunity, you know, under the spectrum act to participate in this ground breaking reverse auction. >> host: gautham nagesh, we have time for one more question. >> so you mentioned the incentive auction, the range of spectrum. one thing i've seen a lot of people agree on is no matter how much you guys get, it's probably not going to be enough in the long term. where do you go next for spectrum once the broadcasters have sold it? >> guest: again, an excellent question. there are other things that we're doing in other spectrum bands. one of the key things is spectrum sharing, okay? particularly with the government. we've had a large initiative to take some of that spectrum and find ways to make that available, the commercial section, in a way which doesn't jeopardize the national defense or national security use. >> host: and you say you've had that initiative. has it been implemented? >> guest: it has been implemented. and the aws-3 auction is a great example of that where there's a

transition period from government use to commercial use. and people were willing to pay for that. >> host: gary epstein, you said that you've been working on this issue for 44 years. what'd you mean by that? >> guest: oh, i've been in this business either as a lawyer or in business or in government since 1971. >> host: why? how'd you get into that? >> guest: i have an engineering undergraduate, i have is a degree from harvard are law school, i wanted to put those two things together, and i thought communications law would be a great opportunity to do so. >> host: well, we're happy that gary epstein who is chair of the fcc's spectrum auction task force has been on the program. gautham nagesh of "the wall street journal," as always, we appreciate your appreciation too. and, mr. epstein, i hope you'll come back before march 29, 2016, to give us an update. >> guest: certainly would like to. thanks. >> host: thank you.

>> c-span, created by america's cable companies 35 years ago and brought to you as a public service by your local cable or satellite provider. >> today nasa astronauts mark and scott kelly discuss their work, cooperation with other countries and whether a 2030 mission to mars is possible. astronaut scott kelly will speak from the international space station where he's on a yearlong mission. live coverage begins at 9 a.m. eastern here on c-span2. >> the bush foundation recently hosted a graduation ceremony for the inaugural class of presidential scholars, a program created by the bill clinton, lbj, george w. bush and george h.w. bush presidential centers. the ceremony began with a conversation on entrepreneurship and the american dream featuring "shark tank" investor mark cuban. this is about 30 minutes.

[applause] >> thank you very much. now since we're in dallas, we thought it was only appropriate to start the ram with two mavericks -- the program with two maverick ares. [laughter] one of them dance with the the stars. and one of them went to the big dance with president bush. kevin sullivan got his start in communications in the sports world with the dallas mavericks. the lessons he learned in the nba's western conference ultimately landed him in the west wing where he served as president bush's communications director from 2006-2009. today he draws on his experiences to advise leaders all across sectors on effective communication. and last month he released an e-book called "breaking through:

communications lessons from the locker room, the boardroom and the oval office." our other panelist has no problem breaking through. [laughter] especially when it comes to making his voice heard by the referees from his courtside seats. [laughter] mark cuban, the owner of the mavericks, is one of america's most successful entrepreneurs. beginning at the age of 12 by selling garbage bags door to door, along the way he learned a lot about the kind of perseverance it takes to survive the ups and downs that any leader must navigate. and finally, i think this is an appropriate setting to share that in just two weeks mark will be adding another job title to his long resumé, president of the united states. with his acting role in sharknado3. [laughter] so, mark -- [laughter]

so, mark, if you need some tips, there are a couple of very distinguished gentlemen here -- [laughter] who would be willing to share some advice. please welcome kevin sullivan and mark cuban. [applause] treasure. >> oh, that's funny. well, everybody, that was a great, a great introduction, but just to show you how far mark really has come, take a look at this photo from his early days in dallas -- [laughter] what was that, about 1982 or '83? >> '83, yeah. >> at that moment hark, you know, getting involved with personal computers for the first time. you see the american dream taking hold right there about ready to -- >> you see the thing in the back, it says "poverty sucks." [laughter] >> so you're a guy who i've seen you quoted as saying it's in the

doing, not the dreaming. >> exactly. >> what is the state of the american dream today? >> american dream is alive and well. does anybody here watch "shark tank"? [applause] it's a great show. the fascinating thing about the show on friday nights is that it's the number one show watched by families together across all of television. literally used to be people wanted to come up and talk to me about basketball. now i have are 8, 10, 20, 80-year-olds telling me about their ideas and telling me about their companies, you know? it's a new age lemonade stand, and i don't think there's any question with american ingenuity, the education, the type of people we have here that this is just -- the best is yet to come. i think some of us get the sense that, oh, we're down. that's so far from the truth. i'm just seeing more and more amazingok businesses, more and more amazing ideas every single day. you know, i couldn't be more excited about the american dream. >> you have to go to silicon valley or new york city? >> no, heck no. i mean, yeah, i'll tell you

this. hopefully, there's no media or anybody from silicon valley, i'm sure, here. [laughter] silicon valley is a lot like hollywood used to be. they're looking over your shoulder for the next big star, the next big deal to come to austin. you get people who come to work. the university system here is amazing, whether it's ut austin, the school -- smu, there are so many amazing schools where we are locally -- we hire locally. it's less expensive, but they're just as smart, and they're just as driven, and there's just as many businesses being created here. while i'm not here to say it's the next silicon valley, i'm here to say texas is the most amazing state when it comes to not just developing talent, but to creating new companies. [applause] >> now, the sports fans among us, and i know there's a bunch here, know that you had kind of a tough night last night. [laughter] >> so this week on "shark

tank" -- [laughter] >> without going, without rehashing all the details of the jordan commitment. >> oh, you had to say his name, okay. >> from a leadership standpoint, when you have a setback, when you have a tough day, what do you say to your people? >> the conversations we've had today that it's over. you know? there's nothing you can do about it. you think for a second is there anything i can change. you think for another second what have i learned so i can do it differently next time. and then you move forward and say what are our options. you know, i'm a big believer you have to reearn your business every single day. you have to look to see whether or not you need to reinvent your business every day. there's some 12-year-old or 8-year-old going to ut, smu, all these great things i just talked about, this great talent, and they're out there trying to kick your butt, right? and if i'm going to stay ahead, i have to keep on moving forward. that's the way it is with the mavericks. you know, we have this big, tall

german who's pretty good -- [laughter] he's still around. and we signed wes matthews. i think we have been fortunate to this point in my 15 years there, and we've got great leadership, a great team, and we're going to keep on moving forward. >> presidents make a lot of decisions, obviously, a lot of tough decisions and, of course, our scholars have had the privilege of going to the clip torn library, for example -- clinton library and studying landmark well tear reform legislation that he led, and there were people among your own advisers, president clinton, that didn't think you should go the way you were going. i got to witness this up close and personal, often without regard to his popularity, based upon his principles. how do you handle those really, really tough decisions especially if you're getting conflicting kinds of advice? >> i try to be very self-aware. i try to know what i'm good at and what i'm bad at. i try to know -- i try to have

smart people around me all the time, and i cross my fingers. [laughter] you know? there's just some decisions that, you know, you just have to trust yourself. and relate me also -- let me also add preparation is everything, you know? people have always said you're such a huge risk taker. i never take risks. any business i've felt like i've done my homework, i've done hi preparation. this isn't a risk. fortunately, i've never been in the same circumstances as our two presidents, and i couldn't even imagine the stress. but in my little world, i just try to be prepared, have great people around me and, you know, be prepared, make the best decision i and hope for the best. >> and in that preparation there's a way to manage the risk. what kind of things do you do to be prepared? >> i read. i read everything i can get my hands on. i talk to as many smart people as i can. i like to, you know, someone once said you have to test your whole card. a lot of times we think we know something, and sometimes success can be your worst enemy because

you think you're smarter than you are. and so, you know, even though i feel confident ability something, i feel good about something, i'm always like, okay, am i sure that's an ace, or does that change to a jack? i want to talk to smart people also and check my whole card. >> in terms of your teams of adviser, i know you're not a big hierarchy guy. would that be a recommendation to headache to our scholars? >> everybody's different. but in today's day and age there's so many different communication mediums you've got to figure out, a, what your vision is, b, how to put those people around you in a way to succeed, and, c, really understand how each of them these to be communicated with because it's not one size fits all. we're so used to seeing everybody, you know, not just millennials, but everybody with their head down in their phone. and i tend to try to do everything via e-mail as much as i can. send me weekly updates, bad news first. when i get that bad news, that's

when i have to reach out and go face to face, you know, and be there to help people. you've always got to be in a position where you're -- it's not about you, it's about putting people in a position to achieve your goals. because if you help them and have a vision for them of how to be successful, then that's going to dovetail with the organization. and when that point comes, if it doesn't, where you go your separate ways, there's mutual respect, and that ends up being a contact or somebody for you to network with. >> we have a question from one of our scholars, terry. she's the vp of convoy of hope. which is all about empowering women. she's got a great project to empower women with basic business skills. but terry asks for your advice, i'm better partnering with the private sector as somebody who is in the nonprofit world. >> i mean, it's a numbers game, you know? there's no business, small or large, that hasn't heard from a social enterprise or doesn't have its own social conscience.

and so you're not going to be in the situation where you're the only person knocking on that door or picking up the phone and talking to them or sending an e-mail. you have to recognize it truly is a numbers game, and every no gets you closer to a yes. just when you think, oh, my goodness, they're going to say no, bam, that's when they say yes. whether it's women's issues, no matter what it is, look, if it were easy, it'd already be done. it's not supposed to be easy. it's supposed to be hard. there isn't a template that everybody follows for success. you have to put in the energy to be prepared, and if you really care about what you're trying to accomplish, it's not work. you know, i always have a test, if you dream about it, it's right for you. you know? if you wake up and you're taking notes about your business because that's what you were thinking about, it's right for you. and if you have that much commitment and conviction, who cares if it's one more door you have to call on? who cares if there's one more

company you have to speak to? that's what it takes. >> so as a entrepreneur and as an investor, what are the biggest impediments and obstacles you can run into for either starting or growing a business? >> yourself. you know, companies don't fail for lack of money 99% of the time, they fail for lack of brains and effort. you know what the one thing in business that you can control? and i say this to athletes as well. the one thing in business that you can control, your effort. that's the one thing no one can ever take away from you and that you can control. and so that is always, you know, that's the key. and if you learn and you're always learning and always looking to improve and always looking to reearn your business and you're put anything the effort, you've got a shot, and you can be successful. >> you had another kind of famous mark cuban/"shark tank" contestant, scotty vest was the name of the company. >> right. >> he had a pat tent, he was

basically trying to license a patent. why don't you tell that story, because that pushed your buttons pretty good. another one to -- >> yeah. so there was a gentleman who came on the show, and he had a coat, an outdoors coat. and his secret sauce was he had a lot of pockets. but in his pockets -- he had a patent so that if you ran a wire up your sleeve using headphones and connected them to something to listen, that's what he had patented. and i was, like, how do you patent that? and no lie, when i was a kid growing up this pittsburgh, i would listen to the pittsburgh pirates, and i'd have a transistor radio that i'd hide from my teacher, and i'd listen to the pirates when they were in playoffs, and i'd run one of those old school headphone things, and i'd run it up my shirt and put it in my ear, and i'd kind of lean this way so the teacher wouldn't see me. and i'm like, how in the heck do you patent that? so i went off on him.

it led to he funding a chair at the electronic freedom foundation called the mark cuban chair to eliminate stupid patents. [laughter] and so i gave them money. they're, like, we can't name it that. people are going to think it's crazy. i'm like, that's exactly the point, right? because there's so many patents. to me, that's an inhibitor to progress. i'm a clean room fan. if you go back to the '80s of computers when there was ibm and compact, and if you did it in the clean room and independently created it, you could run with it and create your company. and that led to the start of the internet and the computer boom. but now it's a race to the patent office to try to get -- i literally, tell another quick story. back in 2006 i have a movie distribution company called magnolia and a theater company called landmark. it's the magnolia here in town. and so we decided we needed to change things up, so we wanted to put movies on tv, on dvd and

online before they're this theaters. just natural course of business. we got sued because somebody patented that after reading what i had done, they created a patent and literally referenced what i was doing in the patent and then turned around and sued me for it. so i gave a little bit more money to that foundation. [laughter] but i think there's things that we need to do because it does inhibit progress. >> another scholar question. charlie asks -- and she's another slacker, like most of the scholars. [laughter] projects manager at charity lodging corporation, software for nonprofits. >> can uh-huh. >> but she's also, her project is teaching teenage girls how to start photography businesses so they can earn money to stay in school. >> oh, wow. very cool. >> amazing. she asks, on "shark tank" you measure roi when making a decision, but how to do you

measure the social good or the way an idea would help a community when deciding on -- >> roh, return on your heart. you know? what else is there, you know? you're going to -- it's not easy the get people to believe, you know? but you're not there to, there's no i. it's really about heart. and so, thank you. you know? it's something special, and, you know, i don't know what else i can say about it. >> there's an element of story time. we saw that lani head her product -- made her product personal, how it could specifically help you. that's the roh, is making it personal. another question from a scholar, ceo of uplift education, a charter school network here in dallas/fort worth whose project is developing fellowships for north texas urban principals. >> cool. >> very cool. she asks how do you find the time as business -- as busy as you are, just the mental space

to think? you're a big idea -- >> 'cuz there's not a lot of mental space there, so it rolls over very quickly. [laughter] i don't know. i just try -- i find things, you know, everything's a progression, you know? i forget the exact steve jobs goes where, you know, everything is a remix. that's what it was, right? >> right. >> and so the more you consume, the more you learn, the more you're open to learning, the more ideas you have. and to me, i'll put it a different way. the most -- and i said this to dirk and other mavs' players, the most competitive sport there is is business, and i'll add nonprofits as well. it's incredibly competitive because your competing 24 by 7 by 365 by forever. and there's always someone trying to kick your butt. and i am so competitive. i love the competition of it. you know, my basketball game isn't so good anymore. unless you ask me, then i'll tell you otherwise. [laughter] but, yeah, just the business is

a sport. running a nonprofit in a lot of respects is a sport, and it's nonstop. that's what gets me excited. that's what keeps me going. that's why i love to continue to learn. >> i heard you say this a radio interview not that long ago that your biggest fear was that your kids would grow up to be jerks. >> yeah. my wife is right here, and that's like -- [laughter] >> there's no chance that that's going to happen with tiffany. >> tiffany, yeah. but there's this other guy at the house, you know? >> what did you mean by that, and talk about how you manage -- >> i mean, we try to be as normal as possible, you know? yes, we have help, but we don't have butlers, we drive our kids to school, we put our kids to bed except when there's a game. at night we try to be by ourselves as much as possible, and we try to just make our kids appreciate. it's hard to explain, but i want them, i want them to to have a little bit of struggle but not

too much. i want them to learn, i want them to appreciate. i don't want them to feel entitled. so tiff and i try to do as best we can to always make them feel appreciative of everything around them. some of you got to meet jake, and, you know, hopefully he came across as somebody who is going to grow up to be that way. so, yeah. >> you read three hours a day. is this -- >> give or take. >> every day, give or take? >> yeah, you can ask tiff, get off of there, what are you doing? >> you read on your tablet? >> everything, from my phone, tablet, newspapers so i get the financial times, new york times, wall street journal, "dallas morning news" delivered. i could read them online but, a, i feel sorry for newspapers -- [laughter] and, b, you just want something different. you don't want to always be staring at a screen. but, yeah, i don't get to read books as much as i'd like to, so it's more content driven online

relative to all the different topics i'm interested in. >> well, will simpson who's with the mississippi d. of human services -- department of human service, his project is teaching criticalling life skills to aging-out foster kids. another great, very impressive and ambitious subject. what should the scholars be reading? >> oh, my goodness. i mean, that's not a fair question. [laughter] read what you love. i mean, read what gets you excited. you know, there are no business books that just, that's it, that's all you need to know. there's no one class, there's no one thing you can do that's just a shortcut. you know, i was talking to them earlier, i mean, experience is literally the best teacher. but as you dip your toes or as you move forward with your endeavors and your challenges, you recognize the things that are going to be a little wit more difficult. and when i run into those difficulty factors, that's when the antennas go up, excuse me, and that's where i go out and say, okay, what can i read?

some people are more about what will my mentor tell me. i'm more, okay, i need to be able to consume it, i need to be able to really internalize it and move forward. and so in terms of what to read, whenever you run into a roadblock or whatever you see related to your vision, you know, i love to read biographies, people who have done things before like our presidents here. there's just so much that you can learn. i'll put it another way. i still walk through -- even though there's not a lot of magazines left, i'll walk through a bookstore and look for a magazine. if i find one book with one idea, it's worth the $20. so you never know when that next idea that just, the lightbulb goes on. you've got to keep that mind open and look to find it. >> and one idea that you've had in the last year or two, couping years, is cyber dust. >> uh-huh. >> for those of you who don't know, and i recommend it, it's an app, and you can text, and your text disappears on a 24-second shot clock. now, i know we all know some

people especially in washington who could benefit from that. >> benefit from that. [laughter] >> disappearing social media content. but talk about the way, you know, we live our lives so publicly now. >> right. two points there. one, with social media now when we get on social media, we think, okay, our friends, our family. but then it kind of has spread, right? it gets bigger, and our networks extend. and you get to a point then all of a sudden where your network, your social media network says more about you than you realize, and it may say things about you that you don't realize. you know? if you go back and look at your facebook friends, in this day and age, unfortunately, people hold you accountable for that. so i always make sure i go back, and there's an app called expire, xpire that allows me to delete all my tweets because there's no good reason. it's like fashion, right? people don't need to see that, what you wrote two years ago.

there's just no point. on the app cyber dust, when you think about messaging in this day and age, the minute you hit send on a text, on an e-mail, imessage, whatever it may be with, the minute you hit send, you don't own it anymore. and if you're a visible person, someone who has a lot of responsibility, there's a good chance that the person you're sending it to is keeping it. now, think about the consequences. you don't own it, they own it, but you still have responsibility for it. it's scary. you know? and over or the course of time, like fashion, there's -- we all have, many of us have thousands of texts that we've sent that might have seemed like the coolest, you had no problem at all -- [laughter] it's not like the old seinfeld episode where schhmopy, you know? just old acquaintances, old business things. while sony owns the show "shark

tank," so while the sony hack was going on, i made sure my negotiations for my contract were done on cyber dust not knowing that this hack was going on. everything else came out, people lost their jobs, every single employee of sony was frantic and scared, but we were safe. and so it's an app called cyber dust. it's in the app store, and if you want to reach me, my user name is mcuban. [laughter] i'm not pitching anything. >> always selling. >> always selling. >> always selling, right? >> always be selling. >> now, we've got a room full of media here as well. >> uh-oh. >> and you're, you talked about social media. you like to conduct interviews when you can via e-mail. >> yes, sir. >> why is that? >> um, you know, reporters, there's reporters and there's opinion, right? they are who they are. but in reporting i learned early on that what you say in an

e-mail may not be -- the full transcript may not be used. and that's their job, to try to create a story. and so having a full e-mail transcript of any interview i've done has given me the chance to post on my blog the real story. now, i try to do more of this via cyber dust. cyber dust is like a face to face conversation, so it's a digital version of that. historically, if it's going to be a long or interview, i'll use the e-mail knowing on my blog i'll have a way to post it to protect myself because you just don't know how a media's going to take -- >> so it's your way of controlling. >> yeah. particularly in social endeavors, right? all it takes is one misstep or one misstatement of an interview, and you're toast. you know? and if you don't -- if all you do is sit down and, yeah, they have a tape of it, well, this is what i thought you meant, it's not that e-mail can't have nuance, but at least you have the ability to have all that context. >> what advice do you have for

our scholars when they are asked by younger people in their organizations to mentor them? what's the best thing you can tell a young person? >> be honest about your time. you know? it just sounds so good to be a mentor and have a mentor. you know? i was never a big mentor person. i was more, like, get my hands dirty. but, you know, you can't -- it's hard to mentor 20 people or 30 people. be honest. and as a young person looking for a mentor, realize they don't live their lives to mentor you. it's a resource that is very, very valuable, and headache sure that it's a -- make sure that it's a resource of last resort. look, there's also friendships and relationships that go with it that are amazing, but i think you have to really, really understand as a mentor what the expectations are of the mentee and vice versa. >> secretary spellings and i attended an event at microsoft years ago.

i'm still working for her. if if you've worked for her once, you work for her permanently. bill gates was asked how do you control your schedule. he said he has steve ballmer check it and cross-check it. what advice do you have about the way you commit your time and build your schedule? >> i have somebody who runs my life who does my schedule, but i'm the same way. i don't commit so far this advance simply because i still think the best is yet to come, you know? i'm still excited about all the opportunities that are in front of me. and so i don't want to preclude myself from something. and like a lot of people here, you know, we get asked to speak every minute of every day. i just, you know, like i said is, i'm such a strong believer in the american dream, i'm such a strong believer that today is the youngest you'll ever be, you have to live like it, and i'm such a strong believer that the best is yet to come for me. and if that's the case -- and my children. if that's the case, then i'm not

going to lock anything in. my schedule's tbd and hopefully will be for a long time. [laughter] >> we have 30 seconds. if you thought the last question was tough, many of our scholars asked what is the next big thing? >> the next big thing is a big center for the mavs. no -- [laughter] i would say personalized medicine. our bodies, basically, are equations, and as computers get faster and faster and faster, we begin to understand more about them, and we understand more variablings. let's put this -- my son, jake, who's 5 -- maybe not when he's 25, maybe it'll be when he has kids, but the concept of walking into a drugstore and buying over-the-counter medicine that has a warning that says you might be the one unlucky shmuck that dies from this will seem barbaric. everything that we take and for our grandkids, their kids, will be personalized. there's a company, you take one

little tweak of blood, and they'll do a complete analysis in seconds. and so as we learn more and more about this wondrous body that we have and all the variables that are in it, the proteins, everything, we'll be able to more certainly determine what it takes to cure us. now, that's going to create a whole new set of questions, you know, that are bigger than me. but, yeah, personalized medicine is definitely something that's going to change the world. and all these discussions we have about the cost of medicine, every, you know, and everybody trying to predict ten years out? they're wrong. and there's going to be people like you out there that are going to invent even better ways, so there's exciting things to come. >> thank you again to the moody foundation and thanks to mark cuban. [applause] >> thank you. [applause] >> and live this morning to the national press club here in washington where nasa astronaut twins mark and scott kelly will discuss life in space.

.. next to me welcome astronauts mark kelly and terry virts. but first want to introduce our distinguished head table. this table includes club members and guests of our speakers. from the audience is right,

david, washington bureau chief for "the detroit news." robert, that we news editor for physical sciences at the journal of science. colonel cady coleman, a nasa astronaut. frank moring, senior editor. gary, washington bureau chief for the buffalo news, past president of the national press club and current chairman of the speakers committee. danny sullivan, senior vice president for business wires public policy wire and the press club member who organized this morning's breakfast. thank you. captain samantha, the european space agency astronaut. andre, bureau chief for the news agency of russia. [inaudible] reporter for the gray sheet. tom mcmahon, vice president of

advocacy and public affairs for the association of unmanned vehicle systems international, and the national press club or remember. welcome to you all. [applause] >> i also want to welcome our c-span and public radio audiences and our live audiences watching around the world on the internet. you can follow the action on twitter, use hashtag npc life. hashtagging pc live on twitter. so 100 years ago come one of the first transcontinental telephone calls was made by the national press club. photo on the wall upstairs documents that historic motor can also marks the first time a high ranking u.s. official was photographed at the national press club because it was been secretary of state william jennings bryan to me that historic call to san francisco. earlier this year conspicuous

feature and has been doing some work for nasa asked the question what would be the 2015 equivalent of that 1915 phone call? well, some conversations that resulted from that question and some cooperation from nasa led us here today for another first for the national press club. and live press conference, like messaging going up to space, and it's a historic day. it raises the question for the national press club president of 2115. that is, who are you going to call and how far away are you going to reach? it's very fascinating that we are here today, and i want to remind you all that our astronaut in space is scott kelly. kelly went to the space station in may to begin at 340 today stand there, and that will be -- i'm sorry, march, not me.

this is his brother who just corrected me. this would be the longest ever stand a u.s. astronaut. and as of today he is just under the halfway point in making history. and your underground we have scott's twin brother, retired nasa astronaut, captain mark kelly, and he is undergoing a study with his brother to determine the effects of long duration space flight on the human body. we also have here on earth air force colonel terry virts who in turn is region was the most recent out pass after return from the international space station. so we welcome our astronauts your underground come and expected in about a minute we will be hearing from the international space station. what are you going to say to your brother if you are able to send a message to him this morning? >> so you want me to say it twice? [laughter] spent weight into we have been

on the screen. >> i talked to him yesterday so it kind of caught up a little bit on what's been going on. i get the opportunity. there's a phone on the space station for folks who don't know that. it's kind of like an internet call, and there he is. there's scott. scott, can you hear us speak with c-span, are you ready for the event? >> i am ready for the event. >> national press club, this is mission control houston. please call station for voice check. >> station, this is national press club. how do you hear me? >> i had you loud and clear welcome aboard the space station. >> welcome. thanks for joining us, scott. we have a full room here. i know it's around lunch time up there. we just had wrecked that. could you tell us what you were doing today?

>> first of all, it's great to be here with you guys today. i know you're having breakfast because both my brother and terry virts there send me pictures of their food. i guess they are trying to make me -- [laughter] -- feel bad about what we have to eat at the. but today is a day off for us because we had some crew members departing late last week. so today is actually a free day. >> and what do you do on your day off on the international space station? >> you know, we have a lot of work out there with over 400 different signs expense going on throughout the year. we do all the work on the different systems that keep us alive. so mostly on the day off it's a time to rest and recover from it very hectic schedule. i generally take a lot of pictures of the earth, do e-mail, maybe watch something on tv. yesterday we were watching the

texans game and the broncos game later, so that was nice. >> so you are about halfway to your year-long goal. how do you feel? what effects as microgravity had on you so far in this almost six-month period? >> yes. you know, i feel pretty good overall. i definitely recognize that i didn't appear a long time and have, you know, just as long ahead of me. but i feel positive about it. i think if i manage my work, pace of work and energy right, i'll have enough in the tank to get to the end. i'm pretty sure i will. as far as a sickly, you know, i feel good. with some pretty good exercise equipment. no, but there's a lot of effects of this environment that we can't see or feel, like bone

loss, affects on our vision, effects on our genetics, our dna, rna and protein from things like that and that's why we are studying this, myself and misha on this one your flickr i think right now the jury is out on that. we're going to have to get all the data and had the scientists analyze it and then submit the results for peer review, the stuff that scientists do. hopefully we'll find out some great things about me and my colleagues spending a year in space. >> there's a lot of attention, a lot of interest in getting to mars. how will your effort up there help us get to mars? >> so a lot of the studies we are doing focuses on, you know, particularly me and my russian colleague am mikhail, longer

duration space flight and we've done before. this is an incredible facility we have, the international space station has a lot of capability collect data on us. we have an ultrasound. we have these devices that measure our vision. next week with going to do a lot of this imaging and data collection in a russian device that actually pulls the blood down towards our feet, lower body negative pressure device. and from these experiments we will hopefully find out if there any clues out there. our vision gets synthetically worse, maybe after nine months or a year, even though the russians have flown on board the mere space station for a year or longer on a couple of cases, they didn't have the technology we have today to figure this out. the space station is also a great experiment in sustainable

energy and life support equipment. and understanding how that works and how we can maintain ourselves with the system for longer periods of time. both of those things will help us go to mars someday i hope in the not-too-distant future. >> as part of what's happening from your undergoing a twin study along with your brother you on the ground. explain how that is working. do you have any results on the twin studies so far, anything you can share or want any of this beano cooke after your experience is done and you analyze all the data afterwards? -- or won't any of this. >> i've had some interaction with some of the investigators. one thing that was i found somewhat interesting maybe not too unexpected is our

micro-bionic on the stuff that's inside of us that's not us. we have more cells of bacteria that we carry around with us that are not come is a part of our body but they just live in sight of us. one of the principal investigators told me that while i was up here that she found it interesting that my brothers and i micro-volume are completely different i guess it's not that unexpected since we do live separate lives. it was kind of an interesting factoid i guess it's been a goal, however, is that the individual be able to document our nasa will be able to document as never before the effects of microgravity on a human using a twin human to really get into the detail lev level.

>> yeah. you know, it's kind of a serendipitous thing i think that my brother and i both identical twins and astronauts. the fact that he's an astronaut and has a lot of experience with nasa means, not only is he comfortable doing these types of experiments as a control person but also nasa has a lot of data on him going back to when we interviewed in 1995. so they can look at the data and look at the data they collect with him over this year and see what kind of deviations we have on a genetic level, which could be a result of this environment, the weightlessness of the environment, the radiation that we see. and you know, from that figure out other areas we need to investigate so we can eventually complete our journey to mars and elsewhere. >> nasa estimates that the recently discovered earthlike planet in the kepler 452 star

system has doubled the earth's gravity. those scientists mentioned your heroic experiment at the effects on gravity when talking about this. so as you anticipate the physical recovery needed to return to earth's gravity from the weightlessness of the space station, how do you think humans could one day at that the gravity stronger than earth's? >> -- adapt to gravity. >> i guess charles darwin proved that the species, different species in general are accountable to their environment, and so i think over the long term it wouldn't be an issue. just like we learned to live and work in microgravity environment, i'm sure people would be able to live and work in an apartment that is quite -- twice the but of gravity, a although i think to become to

with that come into a situation of poverty public longer to get comfortable up here weighing twice as much. but when they come back from the space station we do feel like you weigh 500 pounds, you know, more than double your real weight. but it's something you adjust to very quickly and i think we as a species throughout evolution have shown that we are very adaptable. >> how long has it taken you to get used to this environment of microgravity? and is it a constant process of adjustment, or is it something that you figure out and then it is just better? >> -- it is just better? that's a really good question? you know, once i've never been asked for, what is the process of adjusting. so far i've found it is a continuous thing.

it gets less significant overtime but i do notice you know, i can do things now that i couldn't do right when i first got a. and even though i have flown 180 days in space before. my ability to move around has really improved over time, and continues to improve. you just get more comfortable. your clarity of thought is greater. your ability to focus, things like that. i found that the adaptation has not stopped. it will be interesting to see where i'm at six months from now. >> i know that on earth when they did experiments -- there you go. [laughter] space that's good, that's a good. on earth, when they did experiments they often put

people down in a closed environment and leave them there for months at a time to see how they interact with one another. you are out there for a long time with your colleague. how about the human component of this, the human interactions? on their subjects that you need to avoid in talking about, or how do you learn to live with one person for such a long time, or people so long upon the space station? >> you know, i think people find it hard to believe, but so far in my over 300 days, actually approaching a year in space, i have noticed very few conflicts. not only does nasa but our international partners to a very good job at selecting people that are easy to get along with in this type of harsh environment. so, you know, special on this

flight, i haven't had any issues nor to expect that any, or people that have issues with me, hopefully not. we get along great and we are all one big team up to pick we recognize how we relied on each other on a psychological level but also for our own personal safety. that goes, it's just as important with my fellow astronaut up here as it is with other international colleagues, including the russian cosmonauts on board. >> all right. i'm going to bring in your brother in a minute, but do you think that you are mark got the better end of the deal on the twin study? >> well, i think it depends, you know. it's a privilege to fly on this flight, but sometimes when he sends me pictures of his breakfast i'm a little envious.

[laughter] >> and, mark, what would you say to your brother? >> what, about breakfast? sure. i talked to him yesterday ever caught up on a few things. there's a phone on the space station so we can communicate, other than this kind of setting. i was interested in what you thought about the use of texans first -- the houston's texans first performance yesterday speak with well, fortunately it's a long season so i'm very optimistic they will improve. i think there's areas where they need to. but regardless of how they do, i'm a huge fan and feel fortunate to have football season here and have something to look forward to on the weekends. >> i have another question for scott. so in space you get the he has his legs down but he's not standing. so as they are actually under and what i don't think it's interesting what happens to your

feet in space. maybe you can share as you're comfortable, sharing that with folks. >> yeah. you know, so we don't really use the bottom of our feet much, and so overtime any calluses you have on your feet kind of fall off. after about five months up here you have baby feet. but then you have a big callous on the top of your toe, big tow because you use that to move around the when i got back from my last flight, a few days after the flight i was getting a massage at one of those massage chain places because i was pretty sore in certain areas and the missus says, she says, you have the softest feet i've ever felt in my whole life. and my response was, thank you, i'm very proud of them. [laughter] >> scott, this is obviously probably the start of what will

be a long experience of long human spaceflight missions as we contemplate mars and beyond in our future. you have been up there about halfway down to your full year stint, but give any advice that you get to future astronauts who are going to be spending a long duration in space can anything have learned so far that you pass on to them? >> you know, i was fortunate that i have flown almost six months my previous flight so i sort of knew what is getting into. but you know, despite that, i did have, you know, certain apprehensions having to go into something that is going to be more than twice as long. so i intentionally thought about ways for me to get to the end of this with as much energy as i had in the beginning. and part of that is having a

good balance between work and rest. i intentionally don't work at the same pace i did last time i was up here where i felt like i could go at 100% speed for the full six months. i can't do that. so i consciously tried to throttle myself back a little bit at certain times and have a really good balance between work and rest. and that's what i would encourage anyone who attempts to spend this amount of time in this type of the target as you just have to pace yourself. >> so in the remaining time you have up there, as i said you're about halfway, what are you most looking forward to in the next six months or so up there? >> you know, we have a couple of spacewalks coming up, and i look forward to that. i've never done a spacewalk. i'll be doing one with the guy

who just got something out of the refrigerator. so we both look forward to that and i will be a challenge for the two of us. but what i'm looking most forward to is just getting to the end of this with as much energy and enthusiasm as i had in the beginning, and doing it safely and completing all of our mission objectives and getting all of the science done. >> last question. what is the thing, of all the things that you miss in your time away from earth, and now after such a long time, what's the top of your list of things you miss from being down on the planet? >> so after being with other people, you know, people you care about, your family, your friends, just going outside. i mean, this is a very close

environment. we can never leave. the light, the lighting is always pretty much the same, the smells, the sounds, everything is the same. you know, even though i think most prisoners can get outside occasionally, you know, in a week, but we can't. that's what i miss after people. >> scott kelly, i want you that i want to thank you for joining us on this historic day of the national press club. the audience wants to show its appreciation by giving you some applause. thank you. [applause] >> in my pleasure. >> all right. see you later. somebody passed up a question. maybe it was -- >> thank you.

that concludes our event. >> there was a large cameras in the picture, telephoto lens and the camera. are those pictures of earth, or what are those used for? >> those are for earth labs. where scott was has a very large window, very high quality. sometimes the experiments in the that take pictures of farm fields, how those urges, or different experiments. but will we don't have, the experiment blocking the window, we can grab a camera and take pictures. i had a tendency to take like big picture views where you could see the earth, and scott was attempting they titanic telescope and zooming in on stuff on the earth. it's one of the favorite things we do in space is a take pictures. >> what was the room he was coming to us from? what was the purpose of that? >> we were in the lab and looking backwards towards the russian segment. and where he came from was

exercise equipment are running on a treadmill or different exercise machine that allows you to do bench press, squats, that sort of thing spent how would you avoid come he mentioned missing going outside. what would you do to avoid being stir crazy up there? >> it was funny, i think right after scott got there when samantha and i were there. i missed earth and the russians action were sending audio clips of rain and wind and birds and stopping it was when we can for every laptop, the station is one of the laptops and we put this rain sent it goes like rein in the station for the whole weekend. it was pretty cool. whatever you went it sounded like rein. that was good. that's one way to cope with it. >> marc coma i talked with her brother about the twin study. what is your role in the twin study an underground, and how mh time does it take how often are

you being tested and the like? >> so far my role has been to provide samples, light, saliva, other things i'm not going to go into, and be there for mris and ultrasounds and even some experiments. sometimes i'll be laying in some kind of contraption, i don't eveeven know what they're kind f figured i'd just like do whatever you need to do. >> so it is providing data over extended period of time. sometimes i will visit houston and meet with the researchers and spend a whole day getting data. sometimes they will send somebody to tucson or even wants to new york city to collect data from either and we will do this while my brother is in space but i think also after he gets back for a period of time. from what we understand from some of these researchers, one

of the resort said they will have more information on scott and i on a molecular and genetic information in any other human ever. that was not an official position but this is one of the researchers, their comment on this study. there's probably 10 to 12 different experiments or least different universities doing experiments from all the way from the university of frankford to stanford, harvard medical school, johns hopkins, i think the university of pennsylvania, perdue. so really pretty substantial research universities it will be interesting to see what the data shows ontogenetic and molecular mostly affects from this long duration space flight. my brother mentioned that there might be a cliff and i don't think that needs a will further explanation. we have the data on a lot of

people at six was rubbing his face. with a pretty good idea what happened in that six-month period. we have no data beyond six months. so maybe there becomes a band and occur. and what any by that is window peoples vision gets worse over the six-month period, but maybe at nine months or maybe 10 months maybe it gets really, really bad. imagine you're trying to send a crew to go work and live on mars for an extended period of time by the time to they get there we find out they will be nearly blind from the environment. that's a big problem, so that's part of the idea of doing this research over a one year period is to forget that there are any of these bins in the curve. >> what are the thoughts of both of you on how soon we can get to mars? >> you know, i think our ability to go to mars is not so much based on the technology to do that i think that part we can figure out. we can take out the engineering

and the propulsion system to ultimately i think we can figure out what it's going to take mitigate some of these physiological effects from the in space. i think the limiting factor and the thing that really controls when we actually do this is the public desire to do it. we will need a lot of public support if we are going to take on that kind of endeavor, to put a person on mars. and that public support means event that we get congressional support and administration, support of the administration in the white house. that's the most important thing. because a challenge like sending somebody, sending people to mars is going to be expensive and it's going to take a long time. so without that public support i would say it will not happen. >> both i just spent time in the station and had that experience of adjusting back to earth's gravity.

and scott love anymore significant way one in matches because of the length of time he will be up there. but what are the three or so most unique things that your body experiences that you go through when you transition back to earth from a period of time upping the space station? >> after my shuttle flight which was relatively short duration, only two weeks, i really felt heavy want anything. i felt a sense of gravity was pretty significant. at after my station flight of 200 days, i felt heavy but the main sensation i had was one of being dizzy. where i could still walk and stuff but it took a few days before the dizziness unabated. but they never surprised me about the station flight, 200 days, is how quickly i adapted back to earth. i was prepared for much worse and had months of lingering effects, but i adapted a lot quicker than i thought.

>> was that also your experience in the transition speak was well, i flew for flights but they were all for around two weeks or love it more or a little bit less so i don't have the experience of being in space for a long period of time. my observation ha has been that when you are flying a space shuttle mission, it is like a two-week train wreck of trying to operate and get everything you need to complete in this very short period of time. of a lot of crewmembers working very fast. you don't have a lot of time to exercise. it's important exercise in space. on a space shuttle mission i will exercise like two or three times. you've space station crewmembers, even though they're in space for six months, they are doing a significant amount of exercise almost every single day. i think that's really helps. that's probably why you acclimated pretty well after 200 days in space, and it probably

didn't feel a lot different than being in space for just a couple of weeks probably because of the amount of exercise and the amount of work you are doing during that time in space. >> i think both of you would agree that technology is an imaginable and getting to mars. what happens with our astronauts once they get there? how do we handle making it so astronauts can live there? how difficult will it be? in the we have any idea how long to be able to stay before coming back, or would they just not come back? >> are they going to see that in a movie in about a week or so? >> weight and see the movie. you can read the book also. there's two ways to go to mars and the specific question that needs to be answered. you can go the slow boat way which is a chemical rocket, to cover it up if he did it takes six to nine months to get there and to get the weight for earth to mars to catch up again before

you can come home. you spend about a year and half on the service company the six months to come home. it's a three-year mission which is a long time for your water systems to work and for your carbon dioxide to work. that's a lot of food to pack. the fast boat to mars is to do what we call electric propulsion. it's using electricity. you pump up the propeller with passed out the back in and the spaceship goes a lot faster and you can get to mars in a couple months, spend a few weeks or a month on the surface and come back. the problem is you need a nuclear reactor in space to put enough electricity and. if you get a fast with the problems of the human body in space are mitigated, problems of packing a lot less water and food is mitigated and assistance to have to last for as long. that's a decision we will have to make how to get there, it is a fast way or the slow way spirit if we made the decision and if congress got behind it, how far away are we from

realistically achieving this, do you think? >> well, the first human in space happened in 1961 and we were on the moon in 1969. so there's a historical context. actually getting to mars takes longer than getting to the moon, but it could be done in a decade or two maybe, i think mark set it, his answer was very well that is the question of political science band of rocket science. science. >> ask you about nasa in general. as someone who grew up with apollo come after me apollo 15 was the intel because i was seven. i didn't remember apollo 11. but i had the astronaut dolls or whatever you want to call them, the little guys i would play with. nasa was a huge deal, right? ending in more recent years there was some thought that nasa had come on harder times.

we were relying on the russians more and nasa's glory days are over. then we had the pluto flyby. it was so much excitement created a nasa seemed to be hip again. what is your view of where we are with our space agency here in the united states quacks and what do we need to do, if anything, to put it on the right future course speak with i can talk about what we are doing it and i will mark finish but there's a lot going on at nasa. the pluto mission obviously. mars rovers, we have three rovers active on mars right now in one in work, the mars rover mr. robust. the human spaceflight is very robust. we disconnect from a very long flight and scott is out there now. for nasa's are involved with space exploration to all aspects of the, robotically and human. it has not gone away at all. we are flying with the russians right now, and i was one of the

highlights of my missions actually getting a chance to go work with russian colleagues. does a great experience but soon we will be flying out american vehicles again. as is a very busy. it hasn't ended in any way, shape, or form that i think is a very bright future. >> i think in the united states with the best scientists and engineers in the world. i think we can do anything we set our minds to. really anything. we want, especially, you know, and spaceflight, it's challenging but we have the resources to do these things. i think what we need to do is take exciting missions that the public will be interested in, like the pluto mission. being someone who worked at nasa and fly in space than even i thought that was pretty neat to see pluto up close for the first time, to see those images come back and start to learn more about something that is or isn't a planet, i don't know what it

is today. so it got to pick these exciting missions and we've got to about nasa to do this. what often happens is you will see, you know, we will be asked to do something and then either sometimes nasa will cancel a program for congress will cancel it or the white house will cancel it. we've got to understand that these things, despite the ability of our scientists and engineers to do these things, they do take a long period of time, often from one administration in the white house to the next. something people just need to be patient. we need to give nasa the resources to do these hard things, but we have the people and the ability to accomplish exciting things in space. >> terry, we are discussing earlier he was really looking forward to his spacewalkers you completed three spacewalks during your mission and thus help prepare the space station for the new boeing and spacex

commercial crew vehicles. and he also gave us some amazing go pro imagery and it made us feel like we were there, too. but can you tell us what it was like to be out on these spacewalks and doing this sort of work? >> yeah. it was definitely a unique, i've had a chance to do a lot of things in life. i was deathly unique. going outside for the first time. in the pool we practice doing spacewalks in this weightless pool. you go out and as a module and you can come it's about from there today. i reached over and grabbed and then move on to where i'm doing my work. on my very first spacewalk i want to do that, i went to, not going to do that. sigh of the space station, didn't take a shortcut. it is an amazing experience to look back and see the earth. i thought maybe maybe a minute or two to do that during all my three spacewalks because it was

so busy. there are so many tasks that had my. i never really felt like i had any free time i was out there but it was more work. more like a shuttle flight. >> more, it's almost like we're so used to it. were almost taking it for granted. what can be done to improve the scientific output of the space station and impact it has? >> my brother mentioned that they've got over the pentagon is going to be there, there's 400 different experiments going on in a bunch of different laboratories, the u.s. laboratory, a japanese laboratory, a european laboratory onboard. the russians do science in the russian segment. so it's an incredible facility. there's a lot going on. to expand the output of the space station you just need more people. space station was first launched

in 1998, so 17 years now, starting to get old, things break. people have to fix things when they break. that takes time away from doing the science. you don't have an electrician or a plumber. you don't have somebody to clean the place up. so the crew members, they are the mechanic of the scientist, the secretary, the guy who is fixing the toilet when that breaks. you are then made to your cleaning up on the weekend, so it really comes down to time. budget and crewmembers complicated you have more crew members on board. now you need another return vehicle onboard that acts as a lifeboat if something happens. and also, effexor people you need to be able to support them not only with food and water but oxygen. air to breathe and carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere. so it gets really complicated. it's hard to do.

to answer your question we would need more people. >> of course the international space station living up to its name has been such an international effort. do you foresee when you look at mars and long spaceflight missions in the future, do you envision that these of the international collaborations, or will they be more of the u.s. effort speak with my own personal view is a bit of definitely be international. the recent that the international space station survived, if you look at the history of it back in the '90s, i think the international program aspect allowed it. going back to political science versus rocket science aspect of the, international program makes it something that can survive over a longer period of time. plus it's great to have the ingenuity and you can gain some deficiencies by having different countries build different modules to one country doesn't have to build the entire program speed and somebody passed up a

question about elon musk who recently talked about mars and using a thermonuclear device as an option to make mars more habitable. any thoughts, comments because i saw that in the newspaper. i don't know the science behind new king a planet -- new king of. but i will take, transport is a very smart guy and he does think outside the box. when you look at what is been able to accomplish not only was spacex launching cargo to the international space station, hopefully people are pretty soon come an incredible car company, a big solar company. he tends to know what he is talking about but i don't know the science behind turn 11 the planet. >> u.s.-russia relations are tense on earth but seem very productive in space. what can leaders on earth learn from your cooperation aboard the

international space station? >> i can definitely second that motion, relationships in space and on earth, training, get preparing to launch in space are great. our colleagues there are very capable, very friendly but i had a great time in space with anton and sasha and misha who's up there right now with scott. we had a great experience with them. and, frankly, i think the station has accomplished a lot of things. and the most important thing is the international relations aspect of it. of all the ups and downs of relationships on earth, the space station has been a very positive beacon of light. >> so terry, you on the space station during experiments with 3-d printing. please describe the benefits of this technology for deep space missions in the future and for the space station now if there

are any. were there any parts produced during the test run that were actually used any lessons learned that can improve on the technology in the near-term? >> i should let samantha answer to this was her baby in space against the 3-d printing is a great concept into you can imagine going to mars combo clause is going to be full and you are limited to one bag only. so you can bring all the tools that you need. if you could potentially put out parts or tools, for example, i could really save on the amount of mass you have to launch. we did make a little ranch, and he was made out of plastic and was like a hard metal rich, and is the first of its ever been to in space. it was more of a technology demonstrator but it was pretty cool to see a tool printed out in space. we sent it back down to earth for analysis. that's a technology that has a lot of promise i think. >> once a lasting impression that space has given you when

you think of your time up there? what is the thing that strikes you the most later on? >> well, i think what became very obvious to me in 2001 during my first space mission was that we live on an island in a really unforgiving and private you look back at the earth from a distance engine of very few people aboard the space station and with seven and a half billion people on this round ball just floating there in the blackness of space. we really have no place else to go. that becomes a very, that was pretty striking and pretty quick observation by my part. i imagine the other astronauts to fly in space. a teacher i think a little bit more of an appreciation of our planet and what it does for all of us and the need for us to

consider that and take care of it. >> terry, as we talked about the space station crew has conducted hundreds of experiments, including many that have been developed by science students and transmitted up there. do you consult with these same students when questions arise? and if so, how? which science student experiment with most interesting or challenging? >> we do have come to depend on the experimenter sometimes we just talk to houston or huntsville as a nasa control center we were doing experiments, and sometimes they will ties in drug with the scientist who made it depends on the experiment. and i'm trying to think of what the student on the experiment went. went. posted experience we give you kind of don't come you just do the experiment and you don't really know who came up with it.

but as for student experiment, the student thinks i do remembr is that build something do remember is that build something on the likes of bags or storage locations and stuff. actually, i was not involved in this but there's a thing called steers, little satellites, little cartridges of air jets that fly them around and that was a big student led experiment with mit that my crewmates were talking to the ground and that was very interactive the student could make some provide them around kind of like this robotic competition a lot of kids do these days only this is a satellite space competition they were flying around. >> mark, i mentioned earlier relying on others for transport up to the space station. do you think ending the space shuttle program before there was a replacement slowed the u.s. space program? in other words, was it a good transition or could we have done

better? >> so we had the columbia accident happened in 2003, and after columbia there was a joint decision making retire the space shuttle because we realized that if we continued to fly it over another decade republicans another spacecraft. and a crew and we did want to do that. this was a decision made by the white house, by congress and by nasa, including the astronaut office. this was the right thing to do, to retire the shuttle. it allowed us to speedu speed ue development of what the next spacecraft was going to be. when you get into testing and developing and building the hardware for a new system, a new launch system from a new rocket, a new spacecraft and it gets really expensive really quickly, like upwards of two to $3 billion a year to do this but it just happens to be the space shuttle offered in budget was about two to $3 billion a year.

so there's two things we could've done. we could have retired the space shuttle and used that money to develop a new spacecraft, or we could have gotten two to $3 billion more out of congress and the white house to develop a new spacecraft at the same time. nasa's budget is only about $19 billion. so you are talking about 15% increase in nasa's budget to build a new spacecraft. in this fiscal environment over the last decade, i mean, how hard do you think would be for an agency to get an increase of about 15% in its yearly budget? it would be really, really hard to do. i absolutely we made the right decision. now, i would have personally would have flunked the space shuttle every year for the rest of my life. it is the best space shuttle ever get i love it.

part of me still wishes it was still around, but at the same time we did make the right decision. because they shuttle was designed, and each designed to block about 100 flights. and endeavor come which i flew on its last flight, that was flight number 25. so they were designed to fly about 100 flights but they were not designed to fly for 30 or 40 years and that's the issue we were dealing with. so i put us in a position where we have to rely on our russian partners to get crew members to and from the space station. right now and over the next couple years still, but we will be back flying u.s. crew members on u.s. rockets from u.s. soil here in no time. i think it's puts us on a goodh going forward. >> be the one of you come if you were congress of the president where would you focus our resources for nasa? would it be mars mission? would it be missions like the

pluto flyby, going back to them in the space station? where do we need to put our focus? >> we would do everything. if it was up to me. spin but what if you didn't have unlimited resources? >> that's harder. i will let terry answer. >> that the active duty astronaut -- know. i think nasa doesn't have just one. i would have focus on just one thing. nasa has a broad mission to do both aircraft research and also robotic space exploration and human space exploration so i'll wouldn't divide it up. >> terry come you stay connected to earth for your favorite pastime of baseball when you are up there. as i understand you set out a photograph of every major league ballpark from orbit and you posted many of these images on social media. did you get them all? where did that end up? >> i got almost all, and the coast state is a pretty easy to get, like baltimore is easy to

get, d.c., new york stadiums. boston is very easy, san diego. it's when you get to the middle of the country it gets tough because there's nothing obvious around kansas city, hundreds of miles of flat, st. louis or cincinnati. the ones on the corners were very easy to get had once been in the were tougher to get. but i think i did get them all. i still need to go through some files and doublecheck some of the ones because adapt to the pittsburgh was tempted to put all those hills in western pennsylvania. >> i think my brother is working and getting all the football stadium's new. maybe because of what you did. that's where he got that idea. >> before i ask the final question i have some housekeeping. i want to remind people in the room for astronauts, will be available down the hall for stand up interviews immediately after this program concludes. i also want to remind you that

the national press club is the world's leading professional organization for journalists. we fight for a free press worldwide, and for more information about the club visit our website press.org. i did donate to nonprofit journalism institute, visit press.org/institute. i would also like to remind you about some upcoming programs. this wednesday september 16 at 1:30 p.m. archbishop thomas wednesday of miami, a ship ask her of las cruces, new mexico, and dr. caroline wu, ceo of catholic relief services will discuss pope francis upcoming visit to washington, d.c. on monday september 21, big 12 commissioner oglesby will discuss college athletics. and jane chu, chair of the national endowment for the arts will discuss new initiatives after breakfast on september 28. i would now like to present out england guests with a national

press club mug, much cherished. you can easily find it on the space station either. it's a very valuable and will have to figure out a way to get it to your brother, right? >> i could take care of that. >> that's not very useful in space and though. [laughter] >> so we mentioned the mars movie that will be coming out, right? so much fascination in literature, movies, television with space. i myself of course star trek junkie, grew up that way. how about you guys? each of you tell me what kind of science-fiction you enjoy, if any, and what you think about the movies and the science-fiction that you see out there either in books or on tv or in the movies, starting with you, terry spin i've always enjoyed. when i was a kid of course star wars was the big thing about that. i remember reading arthur clarke as a teenager and he wrote some

great stuff, really cool. watching 2001, there's a space station, i watch that when i was in space and a lot of the stuff came true 50 years later. just watched interstellar while i was in space, and a lot of that stuff is that what's going on board the space station. there's no wormholes of anything like that. that's what you've got to watch a couple times to figure out what's going on. >> so does hollywood get it wrong most of the time? >> of course they have to make it exciting. scott brought up this big project with him so we watched crappy when i. we put a projector up one night and watched the disaster movie gravity. it was fun. [laughter] the mechanics over everything was and what it looked like was very real. i got that done. of course would have giant explosions and fireballs and the soyuz exploding. they have to make up to make the movie interesting but it was

just after not doing science experience it probably would not gross very much at the box office. >> mark, how about you? >> i started reading this book called seven ease about using the space station like safe humanity as a something really bad happens on earth. it's pretty interesting to see how either and author or hollywood uses existing space technology in their movies. when i was younger like these guys aged down here, the brothers and sisters down here, nice to read a lot of like robert, isaac, those kinds of books that made me think about what it would be like to be in space one day, and i think that's important.

gives people ambition and take a picture themselves in a different place at a different time spirit the good thing, mark, with all the genetic data to have a younger brother, if the apocalypse comes we can clone you guys. there will be millions of kelly brothers. [laughter] >> what about the young people, i mentioned youngster and you as a youngster we were so pass it with the space program, and i'm sure that continues. young people to want to go to space someday, get on the career track. what would you suggest they do? >> people, i know mark and we get asked discretion of the time for what we need to do and the real interest do what you are passionate about the everybody is blessed with different gifts and skills. what you were created to do, go do that and go do it well. there's that one path to being an astronaut. there's lots of different engineers and scientists. more and i are both previous post in our former lives and as

medical doctors in space now talking with scott. we need people with lots of different skills. i think the key is to do what you are passionate about, like where your gifts are. >> we are also on the cusp of this big sea change. i think there's a very high probability that the young people in here today sometime in their life, even if they're not a professional astronaut will have the opportunity to go into space. you see companies like virgin galactic and others that are started on this road to space tourism. it's exciting, and we are going to see a lot more. right that there's probably about 550 people that have ever been in space, and i think that number is going to grow substantially over the next decade. >> do you think there's more excitement now about prospects

in space and the were at any time? >> i think one of the reasons is people are starting to think that hey, this could directly affect them. like maybe they will be the earth and space and i think that's true. maybe in some of our lifetime, instead of taking a flight from new york to london, that's going, particularly takes about six in f., seven hours, maybe some of us will someday be taking that flight, how fast we could do it in the space shuttle, which is about 40 minutes. there is no reason why that is not possible in the next come in the coming decades. i think people started to think about this differently. >> how about a round of applause for our guests? [applause] ..

[inaudible conversations] >> as this program comes to a close, a quick reminder that you can watch it anytime if you missed any of it. watch it in our video library, go to c-span.org. and be sure to join us this afternoon at three eastern as we wring you a discussion -- wring you a discussion between the pkk and