>> this is book tv on c-span2, television for serious readers. coming up tonight at 7:00 eastern, discusses perspective on race in america. 7:45 takes a look at the future of china and impact on the world. 8:30 eastern, allen west talks about his book. at 9:00 p.m., the reagan presidency after the assassination attempt. coming up at 10:00 eastern new book, controversial statement. at 11:00 with firsthand accounts with holocaust survivors.

it all happens tonight at book tv. >> and you're watching book tv on c-span2. we are in las vegas attending the freedom fest and we're interviewing authors out here and joining us now is somebody who has been on book tv before. the book is called the moral arc. in this book the moral arc that during the years i spent researching and writing the book, when i told people that the subject was moral progress to describe the responses would be an understatement, most people thought i was ha -- [laughter] >> what i was trying to do

progress over century and not days and weeks. follow the trend line and not the headline. it's illegal in every country in the world. appear -- right to vote by black, women, everywhere. there are now 118 democracies in the world. in 1900 there were only a couple . big steps. same-sex marriage.

>> absolutely. >> in other words, would say no. >> i know. but they are traditionalists that want to conserve sort of class-base society. in other words, here we are at freedom fest. this is what it is all about. it's my mind, it's my body and i can do whatever i want as long as i'm not hurting somebody. two people that are in love and want to get married who cares as long as no one is hurt. that's the kind of step in this right direction and having that as a standard that the rights of an individual to have the power over own mind and body, that's what's been happening expanding the moral spirit including more people for that over the last

250 years or so. >> is the world arc same as morality? >> things are getting better and changes have happened. making sure that other higher animals don't suffer. started off by saying about animal rights, t not can -- it's not can they think or suffer, do people have the right to not suffer on the hands of everybody else, you not causing somebody else to suffer is a moral decision and also make the argument, by the way, of free will. most of my scientists friends believe in determinism.

morality requires moral choice. you could have harmed somebody and chose not to. that choice is where the moral decision comes from, and so what we've been doing as a society for 20000s, the -- 200 years, the idea of constitution is that -- is that we are saying everybody should be treated equally under the law. that's a new idea. it's only a couple of centuries old. they've taken off ever since. >> how did the enlightenment begin? >> well, it began with the idea that we could use reason and logic science to answer questions about the world. it really began with isaac

newton and apply to change the world. medicine, these all started off and certainly off newton, everybody in europe, uk and the united states want today to be the newton of society, culture, discovered the principles that guide, say, an economy. before the enlightenment there was no economic. before adam smith there was no science of economic. adames famous book is called the wealth of nations, that's not the title of his book, "inquiry into the nature and causes of the book of nature", a book of science. where does it come from. we want more of it for more people, how do we do that. there must be some principles behind it that we can apply for government, societies to

increase prosperity. so everybody has been doing that since then. jefferson's idea of structuring a gofl -- government in a certain, that's the idea. it's a scientific. >> from your book, the bible is one of the most immoral works in all literature. >> that's a pretty strong statement, yes. [laughter] >> i don't like to offend my religious friends, if you turn to the bible as a lit -- literal book, nobody follows death penalty for children, wives. these were laws that were written for another time for

other people and i would put same-sex relationships, that is in that same category. we really don't need to be following that. we can do better. we've already done better. most of the founding of the united states were not religious. the point of the constitution and the bill of rights is it doesn't matter what your religion is orb not religious at all, these are the law of the land and you have to obey them and i have to obey them and these are the rights this everything gets regardless of what your religion or who is the dominant religion, we don't care about that, these are the laws. >> has u.s. been a component or advocate of a more moral society? >> if the most part. slavery is the obviousous -- obvious one but we abolished

it. mistreatment of native americans . but we get there. many people are poor and have few freedoms to where virtually everybody in society is prosperous and has liberty. the united states is one of the champions of that, not the only one but the constitutional republic is a good system. >> what's a scientific explanation that leads to a moral -- more moral society? >> sure. that does make life better for everybody and capitalism,

everybody economist knows that's the best way to increase prosperity not just for 1% at the top but everybody at the bottom. it breaks down tribal barr -- barriers, i don't know you, but but i don't care what religion. i treated you by exchange and so on. that's one of the big benefits to trade. it's a little bit like travel, having opened borders, people that travel more liberal than other people that don't travel as much. encountering other people that are different from you in which you don't have to kill them or enslave them. you can do something that benefits them that benefits you. that's great benefit from capitalism.

it's really one of the best things ever invented. >> you said that you worked on this book for several years. >> yeah. it took a long time -- >> why? >> dealing with a topic that i didn't know that much about, history of war, decline of war. all you hear about is people fighting. 1945 was the last time, korea, vietnam, these kinds of wars are decreasing. nothing like the holocaust or the tragedies, you know, and so on. those are anomalies compared to today. isis is bad. ..