>> >> where they had had the traditional coffee for the president-elect and the first lady to be to come in

and be hosted by the sitting president and vice president. so while they were there, of discussing the day's activities said there was the meeting about a threat on the inauguration that had come up over the weekend. a threat of that terrorist attack of the inauguration. but probably farther back with the assumption so it was something of great concern of the intelligence community. to bring everyone together that was involved so with a

homeland security defense. with the national security adviser and then they discussed what kinds of things one person told me about it that you hear from the inaugural ceremony. with the presidential image that she had the best quenched -- question could the president be pulled off of podium? i don't think so.

so of that system we cannot deny your president. but he did find out about it over the of wheat and. david axelrod talks about talking to obama about it on saturday. they decided not to do a final run through. bubble sides were comfortable they had been dealing with one another four months. transition people dealing with white house staff but then president-elect

abominating tuesday or early enough that they could work together read the people who were sitting in the offices before they left to get information and how it worked and that was an excellent part of the transition to give people paper end of memoranda so with the national security council after general jones was elected was to be heading in the national security council working together side by side so they read their for several weeks and advantage is you

can talk about what is in the paper but then he was telling me the memoranda that there read there was not a lot of mistakes but he said once you sat down to say you might want to organize geographically this way and it didn't work for the following reasons. that is important to have that time that obama appointed people early enough that is important as a national security advisor for bush he started in the fall 2007 to prepare miranda

with countries and issues that were important for any incoming administration. they have a template of what they would gather about the state of the relationship for the issues and what they did and the situation as it currently was. they could take that memoranda passed through and also president bush had all of them. son to take those that ask questions. but they were willing to be very open in their discussions. >> host: that is a very "in-depth" analysis.

a ruth hitting situation that thank goodness turned out. but you go to a couple of central points that we will get to later that was the key but with 9/11 it was the first inaugural after the terrorist attack and it seems that you concluded that 9/11 tragedy fundamentally changed transition or the aspects of that bed and encouraged more of the interaction that you speak of? >> personally and is usually to talk to you josh bolted the chief of staff in december 2007.

ended is very important to do that. congress also in that it was the different time period the 9/11 commission recommended people be appointed earlier and that woodard require security clearance to be done early. the intelligence reform act of 2004 made a provision for names to be sent in for security clearance after the convention so once the transition began they would have people clear and that became important because the obama people touched advantage of that to put in 250 names so people could

start. that was critical because you don't want to have a fragile period like that extended. you want to make sure that is in transition you will be changing. >> does a kid security have the american people it was also the financial crisis as the major consideration because the mill town had occurred shortly before the election. tell us about that because that was the critical period as well. >> when you plan for a

transition based on that promise says the you have made during the campaign that goes on for a couple of years. then to have something come up that was so large and in the period after the election there period that the bush people really didn't have political muscle left. some of that meant the president-elect had to be involved to encourage congress to take whatever measures they wanted like standing on t.a.r.p. >> host: very controversial and difficult.

>> then with the bailout still make you recount it just as i recall. >> it was an important aspect to deal with the financial situation because the automobile industry has so many contractors. syllabub bush people were interested to make sure that industry be stabilized as quickly as possible so they had a meeting with the obama people after the sunday after thanksgiving where they talked about the auto bailout and joshua bolton said there would be willing to appoint a person so at

that time obviously before the inauguration. and the obama people pulled back a little bet. >> reheard the excess portion of the one at a time. >> but it means that here the president had to make a very swift change from campaigning to governing to figure out will they take that author of the bailout? he took the same group that roosevelt had when herbert hoover had a recounting of history. in a way you buy into somebody else's problem.

>> so to close that critical chapter with national security the conclusion was during the transition because of this level of trust and cooperation that the transition help to move to that period in a much more positive way they and much -- then was the case. >> that was true in so many ways with the appointment process in the general procedures of the transition >> let's move to president bush to capitalize urethane so tell us why they focused

so much as 2,007. >> in one way that was comfortable but working as his chief of staff had him speaking separately about transition to talk to read jim bakker and the george shultz and how transition's work and also of the recruitment process with personnel.

and not just for president obama but the presidency itself the institution which you are having in your hands to make sure that institution remains strong. so i think that is one of the reasons he started nearly. and he told his chief of staff he wanted him to handle it whenever he needed to he could come to him to get his approval or thinking so bolton did that. but also he was involved in the financial crisis and he was juggling all of this. so on a daily basis to deal

with the executive director for the obamacare transition that is the legislative affairs assistant for senator obama that was in law school together. he had the full confidence so on a daily basis after the election people going into departments to gather information if there were any issues they could dispose of them within one day and there were very few. >> i recall a meeting that i know well a breakfast meeting and to give it to rahm emanuel and even before

that i had the opportunity and we were gone of bush white house and predestine will have his role in the administration by recall that breakfast vividly and vice president cheap -- cheney made a great statement keep an eye on your vice president so was a generous offer. >> i find that remark he was referring not just to himself but to his experience in the ford presidency. >> you make the very good point. >> it gotta good laugh it is

interesting where president bush began the process he did not know who the next president of united states would be. with chief of staff but their reaction was different than some had thought than the mccain campaign but it would be a different transition. >> but also with obama a change of party transition for you want to change

personnel quickly to of the executive orders windup and the of memoranda in the guidelines so there is a lot you want to do right at the beginning to demonstrate there is a new sheriff in town and reordering business differently but with mccain is the same party transition see you are not as anxious about changing personnel quickly in the same for a legislative initiatives. and one of the things to put in names which he did not for security clearance. there is a big difference

but mccain had people on arms services committee in the senate that were appointees of his that have security clearance. so he felt he had the ball in the of the staff with the same party transition has a helpfulness and friendliness to read. most often that will make it a lot easier for president. so when vice president bush followed ronald reagan when there were vacancies coming up at the and of the administration as a lot of cabinet people lead to important positions were treasury and attorney general and also of the education secretary, the

three of them left so you have vacancies there. reagan appointed brady for treasury was a very good friend of george h. w. bush and thornburgh for attorney general and he kept all of them. >> host: professor kumar you write the policy transition was seamless it benefits a sitting president and i think it is fair to say to burn issues reputation you did your homework talking to people in the white house so was that part of president bush's motivation? >> it could have spent.

it is hard to get the motivation of people but republicans tend to focus on management and bush in particular had to manage that transition early and i think it was natural for him to do that in particular with the war but in the last part of your administration administration, you don't have lot of persuasion of an ability to do something you may want them to do. you spend a lot of time there and a lot of time on the road traveling. think it is natural to think of wrapping of your administration it is useful to establish that narrative

of what it accomplished and how it fit together particularly with the president's vision because people will look at the presidency of the individual actions as opposed to the polls would is an opportunity to pull it together that is something that reagan did that worked to his benefit and eisenhower i steadied white house communications. and i have gone through all the files of the press secretary before eisenhower. his office performed the jobs of 60 people today but one of the memos that he wrote to deal with the last

year he said he should travel and have the theme of a man of peace to travel around the world adding that was interrupted and the trouble the results of with the soviet union after that. but it was having a theme and for eisenhower also for your whole life to be known as the man of for the interim presidency a man of peace. it is useful for everybody for a president for his legacy to wrap it up and the memos provided were important for all of this goes into a presidential

library. it gives people a sense of what he was thinking so it is the positive way to end your presidency because you can get around to the notion of the presidency as an institution and how did you handle its? >> you have different points in terms of the transition after 9/11 and the fact president bush was in a unique position as to the term president so he knew there would be a transition and vice president was not seeking the office. so those are different dynamics but take a step back you mentioned president eisenhower and truman was the father of this transition to focus on the need of a of a good

transition but in terms of those fundamental tenets tenets, relations may have been a little less trusting maybe even frosty between truman and eisenhower. >> they were. one of the things that happens is presidents are affected by being that happen to them before. so they want to deal with that situation and with truman he came in as vice president jerry 20 and roosevelt died april 12 and during that period he would not learn about what that was going on in government and in particular was wartime. like the development of the atomic bomb. he felt very scarred by that and didn't want that to have

been to his successor when he made his decision and announced it at the jefferson jackson day dinner he would not run again, he could have but he decided not to. he talked to the head of the bureau of the budget about preparing for a transition he wanted him to pull together a budget information and program information that now is the omb that was the heart of a government operation that had that kind of information a president would want to pull together for a successor. said he was very interested

in his successor. so he decided, i will read to you it is in his own words. >> i remember but go ahead. the viewers will enjoy that spectrum in being truman. [laughter] he decided he would bring them into the white house say you have both candidates adelaide stevenson and eisenhower nominated that they sent to vote on august august 13 that truman sent. he said i will have the general from the cia gave you a complete briefing on the foreign situation then they would have the other

things that also he indicated that the cia would provide him briefings of the world situation and a weekly basis that eisenhower did take him up on and we will have lunch with the cabinet after that if you like i'll have my entire staff report to lung the situation in the white house. in that way you can be aware of what takes place. eisenhower wrote him back to turn him down to say in my current position as the republican party and other americans who want to bring a change of the national government. [laughter] it is my duty to remain free of the policies of the current administration for the whatever it appears to be in the country's interests i believe our communication should only be

those that are known to all american people. consequently would be unwise and results in confusion if i were to attend the meeting in the white house to which you have invited me. truman was not very happy sometimes to read and write letters. with a handwritten letter he would play in the mailbox when he was doing his walk. not going through a the chief of staff. [laughter] >> host: go-ahead. >> i am extremely sorry you have allowed screwballs to come between us you have made a bad mistake i am hoping it will but injured a great republic.

>> host: did he reply you should listen to your staff. [laughter] but this is a fundamental point, and he was skeptical to engage with a democratic president even the transition other they and cia. one of the hallmarks that you underscore to be a model a sitting two-tier republican president transitioning with a democratic president who was critical of the bush administration but still you have a level of trust established between both presidents and their staff. >> joel kaplan a deputy talked about how he thought

it was an excellent statement with the transition they were beating up for a couple of years. >> but this is so striking and one of the many virtues of value that we have such a partisan atmosphere in washington and soda hope was optimistic is that you can transcend that looking at the good of the country for the protection of the presidency. now a couple of other points , john podesta who was serving -- assumed the leadership for president-elect i know he

was later jiva staff under clinton the you characterize his style as corporate and having a separate track of the transition. >> his operation is different from earlier operations to set things up to make sure they would have people that could go into those departments to review the programs and budgets and personnel. >> relatively detailed survey you have to pick people who have been there to know what they look for but he set things up to you as a template that all of the team's work to use.

usually they have large review teams for people to get their own information so he was able to have a disciplined operation because he did work from templates and would think through at the very beginning of what they wanted and i asked them about the process and how he maintained that discipline he read back to be staff secretary he was under you as chief of staff and he said he learned there the importance of details so when you put together the agency review team and the policies and the leadership

part 679 people per grey disciplined operation you did not tear of problems. >> i think it is fair tears there regardless of political persuasion persuasion, experienced and disciplined operative and a leader. we saw that in this instance now we see that again with secretary clinton. >> i think he is the consummate professional like to see where the two of them could work together easily to develop mutual respect you also of talk about the unsung heroes of the people in the government better so essential and how that is

overlooked. >> there is a lot that has to be done within the government lay before the transition begins so the general services administration is important to identify the office space that will be used that is already identified them day have to talk with representatives of both sides have they will put their office together then they have to talk about the computers, and the security and how they plan to do that. then the office of government applet -- ethics for the financial as closure

requirements. >> and they gave to talk to the candidates' representatives about what type of disclosure it is because a lot of people they know that they have to reveal their stocks and cash bid of many of them. so they need to know beforehand a transition team. then you have the career staff to prepare for a change. they are following what is going on in a campaign. sometimes they might follow the campaign pronouncements

of the candidate and what programs he or she wants to figure out how much will that cost? they will have that information ready and that is how various operations can roger jones did that for the 52. [null] been people like clay johnson who was a close friend of president bush with extensive management he and bush had gone to high school together in andover then they both went to yale. >> he would come in to do personnel for him and he is not political but to make sure the management aspect worked.

>> one person had the authority and responsibility for the key points. >> in going out josh bolts of the white house operation department did some of that work that clay johnson worked on to the president's management council period the office of management and budget. he chaired that committee which is made up the department's so he had them come together in the spring to talk about the transition and what information and did they think the new administration would need? they would work through that and in the summer he sent

out a memorandum directing exactly what they were to gather for informations that involve all parts of the government and to start early. >> execution with broad participation. >> so they could develop a consensus so what types of conferences will the secretary be involved? what type of travel? what legislation? and obviously budgets. >> host: i commend you for highlighting and presenting the information it is a little-known fact it is easy to feel that is not there

that is how you felt like happened. >> to assume it is a change of party but it is anything but that but then they find omb and how important those people are then they find they can go to the national archive to the presidential library to find out if it has been talked about before >> to drop in the mail all the affirmation speak about that. it is a change.

>> the department has websites. >> and talk about the importance of transparency a. judging that you have the information and there. teetwo by past transitions and what people have learned in the past but a lot of people have gone through a transition. >> the voices of the past.

he worked on the carter administration and you worked on the transition in going out. so he became a repository of information of other democrats. a turnover his files including john kerry so those files can be important telling me when you want to put together a budget for the transition. >> band there brought

together democrats and republicans to discuss transition and what issues there are. >> let's move to president-elect obama neves to get it in place of the transition a key point and how you transition from campaigning? speak about that. >> people that have been working for year-old it is

almost nothing but for those with long periods of time. in then to get to the polls working on policy issues but all the people working for you they'd think they should have a place. in you certainly have had experience. and it becomes difficult but

it is important tour due -- to do. the campaign people are important to have because they reminded president why he is there. they know what the provinces were. but you have to balance that out with people who know the president well and how is he like information and how do decisions need to be made? with foreign policy national secure a and particularly now because it takes so long >> there is in national gravitation and to the white house itself and the white

house has certain rhythms to it some two have that knowledge in the white house. for example, the bush administration andrew card worked as secretary to new that. and then a knowledge of a washington community. with these news organizations so when you come in as president with the press staff what are those your genes? you cannot just do what you want with everything on your terms because you have to

understand the dynamics. >> you're speaking to someone a number of years now but that highlighted their in constituencies when they come to office the most important groupon the block that is the of press and he is not well known as the governor ran not a senator obama had some exposure but you have leaders the you have to be very attuned a and respectful with campaign

staff to help you to get elected and bring you to the dance there is seldom did things to do in such a short period of time to make the point the first 100 days is your window of opportunity for the best prepared time to take a vantage as you start early on the transition how did obama do? >> he did well. he had to deal with the american recovery act to make early statements to do

executive orders on closing guantanamo in it turns out to take longer than anticipated with a fair pay act and when he was campaigning for reelection in 2012 to talk about the american recovery act basically they were starting on health care if you look at the difference the of magnitude of what you have to do early on. >> you have to organize there. >> is the crush. >> when eisenhower came in

january he give that inaugural address. en jedi very he had 158 for his first 100 days that talks about a lot of different issues. >> with guantanamo bay with just a variety of things as well as a memorandum in it in the first days of office nine executive order in 10 memorandum the 100 days there were 19 executive orders and 23 verandah that is a lot of work. >> you have seen a lot of

change i wish we had more time to talk about that because it would be fascinating but you make the point with obama stepping into the white house the transition is a series of events and to recommend a narrative to pull that together. >> that is one of the problems to have them working on:executive orders. >> but people are working on

that. in that is of necessity to make that transition as a candidate so what we've been doing? >> the 19 used opportunity that obama has had to do that is he gave a speech at georgetown university in april 2009. you talk about the pillars of his pregnant -- presidents a like health care and energy and the

budget to lay out those things that were important part of his administration and tuz said adam know what he stands for but to say what he is interested in. but is in the end it is useful to wrap these together. and didn't have an opportunity the one of the things with reagan and he put together a small thing but a large impact to demonstrate he was no longer

the candidate to give a formal dinner in november to separate yourself out from a great president elected and came to washington to give a dinner and had all congressional leadership. and tuesday and interested said governing and i need all of your help. and then the head when inaugurated to say u.s. signing executive orders that would freeze government

hiring because they knew symbolically so there are some things they can do like that and to be fundamentally important but my first and basic point that you just made is a good transition is part of good governance that is something i care deeply about how we get things done

that the highly partisan atmosphere. so that's is part of her conclusion that you have drawn. >> the last point is management because you have opportunities to make changes those that deal with the events with a wet day had. also the political payoff is not that great. but it in management to know that it wasn't something

that would ever hope you it can harm you but not help you. like your leon to create the image may council. >> but to end the public would care about that? >> so what should the candidates be doing now and what should obama and his team to be doing? they're getting close to another transition. >> gathering the same kinds of information to see what they did is certain types of situations so they have some

history and then to plan out use the president's management council there is legislation that would create a president management council and also create for career people to be a transition and director. . .

to serve in the white house and surf the net and people. i really applaud you and am grateful for this very interesting and revealing book about george bush and barack obama managing the transfer of power to a successful transition and again i was struck by your optimism and i hope that the current president and our next president to be heed your good advice to counsel. >> guest: i think they will

because one thing about a president that unites them they care about the institution of the president. >> that's the right note for us to and on. martha ton of pleasure. thank you very much. it's been a pleasure. >> guest: thank you very much. that was "after words" booktv's signature program in which authors of the latest nonfiction books are interviewed to watch past "after words" programs at booktv.org. with the supreme court beginning a new term monday we thought you'd like to see this program. wil haygood observes the life and grip thurgood marshall specifically the five-day senate hearing that resulted in his confirmation as the first african-american to serve on the supreme court now on booktv.

>> i want to acknowledge and thank c-span for being here tonight. [applause] and let me just say one quick thing about thurgood, how important he was to our country for african-americans, for those who wanted to go to law school, african-americans who wanted to go to law school. i was a part of that generation. i looked up to him, believed in him and was inspired by him. and i too someday could go to law school and i someday could become a lawyer. and there's a whole generation of people just like me who have gone on to do that because the bravery and the courage of thurgood marshall.