the male figure in your life when you are nine o were 13 years old. my hope is a lot of fathers will understand what that really is. >> host: i really enjoyed our conversation. congratulations.

>> >> people talk about conservatives and republicans and the eight real the time. would get the television if

you watch what is happening with the candidates like donald trump right out of the gate they do sound like that if you don't know if the conservatives most liberals are in the community didn't have conservatives and their family they cds people yelling and screaming talking about immigrants and poor people to say i guess they hate people. [laughter] with i became a conservative in my twenties it was because there realized i was brought up in a liberal family but conservative ideas are the best for lifting people out of poverty. elected to a billion people out with free enterprises and it is incredible if conservatives themselves cannot shout this from the rooftop who else will? >> host: the idea to put

on a different face to show will be belief in a manner that is welcoming and inviting because everybody is out of the gate already led ted cruz or donald trump who had strong things to say >> have you changed that within the body of the g.o.p.? >> remember that purpose is not to fight against a particular policy but as a person in a leadership position it is a fight for people this is what a great leaders all have in common

and the answer by the way is not billionaires'. that does it come up. is an opportunity for those to be left behind fighting for people but not things the second is to remember to tell stories so i have dozens of stories. >> host: in one section of the note that you talk about from the indian slum and ghost town so give an example of how people deal with these issues and problems they edgier talk about it from a very human aspect but not calculating.

i particularly enjoyed when you say of might start with policy with a healthy dose of liberalization at the end of the day how the world is changing and how to deal adapt and what do you do to make that work? how does that relate in this changing environment? >> remember each of us. >> if you remember that that is the moral consensus that we are supposed to be good samaritans those that we're

fighting for have less power than us. conservative verses liberal but we could be on the other side to say i agree but actually we have ideas about liberty the safety net for all the things that we do because he tried to serve the port better. >> host: i want to put a check point there to get back to that idea of the dignity and value of work and how that balances out to lift people up. you have lessons we can begin to learn and implement

the new party of aspiration. you talk about to the a moralist and to get happy which side of a debate that point get happy and mean that don't just a duet. go where you are not welcome which is a very important part because when i was chairman i emphasize to the national party you need to get out of your comfort zone be where you're not wanted or expected say it in 30 seconds and erasure bad habits of those what is the

most important job of point? >> the one that trips people up the most that should get happy. spirit is is the greatest country in the history of the world we're so lucky to be americans with this scenario. it is like days of the apocalypse. we have better ideas to help people we are happy to be here and we're delighted to have our values as a gift we have a responsibility.

is an epochal press not to be happy because this country is a gift. >> how do you do that? with the arcade and avenues and those backroom conversations that goes to make up health care reform but the party says we want to repeal that may amplify to big government intrusion but how did you talk about something like that in a happy way? >> remember the hour reason for the policy. >> conservatives it makes them insane with obamacare. it is such an aberration the idea to do things it is bureaucratic all the

incentives what they hate is fighting against obamacare remember when you don't like fight for the people that are hurt reagan was say happy warrior on behalf of the people who needed him. a lot of progressives were watching nobody in my family voted for reagan. and how they got elected so they still say his ideas were not good but bill clinton fought for people who needed him he was a

happy warrior. >> why when he went to his travails his numbers were relatively high because they remembered he was the fighter for them. but that is interesting because that is kind of how i looked at benghazi the seriousness and the gravity of the matter the loss of four of lives the way the party talked about it was much more political we didn't bring in the emotion and feeling of love so even along that spectrum with a loss of life like big gauzy that is very political how you talk about that still matters. >> go back to clinton

conservatives will say he brought it on himself and he did but remembered the impeachment scandal ever fighting against what he stood for to say this distraction is making it impossible to fight for the american people and that was critical everything we do it is not even interesting or worthy fighting for people that need us will never go away. do i care? or do i use their plight as an excuse? we have to examine our own conscience at that point i am asking conservatives to do that. think about education reform we can all agree that is

inadequate to grow up in part of a workforce virtually all were affected somebody needs to fight for the kids not care too much to fight against the teachers unions are the bureaucracy because children are denied their civil rights americans will reward the fight for people. >> matters what you say even the fight it is one thing to fight for education but then how you begin to express that and talk about that with the blow back matters more. >> absolutely.

remember that child remember the mother. is more important in your political future that mom is the most important thing if you don't think so you should be a leader. >> with their broad scope of the book i want to talk about your journey because for me you can see the point is where it relates back your richard made to the right was at the moment of explosive recognition?

how was that journey to the point now you tell that story? >> i drop dead of college to begin with. with the seattle democrats that was redundant i left college when i was 19. went on the road to play the french horn i made a living playing chamber music and jazz fan then i went to to the symphony in very girl in barcelona f she actually dropped out of high school to sing with the rock band so we made a plan to gather to move to the united states

i would study she would get a job iran in the late twenties she didn't speak much english and she got three job offers her first month she said something to read this is the greatest country in the world for people want to work and that hurt - - that hit me as an immigrant in my own country just the preconceived notion she worked a minimum-wage job for three years is needed that to get on her feet but that had a profound impact saying it to the eyes of somebody who came to the country working during the day teaching music studying economics and the main question that i had forever

was poverty i was always interested i grew up normal class but when you first saw real poverty with the flies on his face a of the distended belly about why a tall is that possible in this world? that haunted me and i've learned what happened to that boy. but to the world's poorest people and 80 percent of starvation level was eradicated since i was the child. it is like a state secret 80% of the children had gone away it was in the united

nations or the world bank globalization free trade property rights the rule of law and entrepreneurs the american style free enterprise. become less of the u.s. navy the american conservative ideas to pull people out of poverty. >> to experience real opportunity with no education and i had discovered the idea is the name listened all they talked about was money. that led me to where i was today we have of moral obligation to bring those

immigrants. >> we clearly have a problem with immigration. if you go back to the bush administration in the "state of the union" and then picked up by the aga gang of 8 to get to a compromise we now are in this space where the immigrants story is not one of aspirational entrepreneur is some to take a vintage of the opportunities this country offers but it is just taking a vintage of the country which irresponsibility to

cut in the right way having to create a counter narrative? the g.o.p. was the party of assimilation to welcome that aspirational. have a few make that pipit that speaks to this aspirational story? >> at the general level the g.o.p. can get its mind around how we think of immigration and that will take a visionary leader as opposed to inciting anchor aspiration means hope and

that means you're making do friends fear is firing up your base. andy aspirational candidate will feed through to all sorts of different things of the brevity that is necessary. second to stop thinking about it as if it was one thing. and the incremental approach toward progress anybody does our progreso and immigration just pulled a band-aid off. was too easy and important things first we have more work had 80 i we create five

jobs for native-born americans. also the guest worker program that we could make progress understanding it takes a bunch of years. >> this is that a good way back from your personal journey to the point they talk about practical help what does that mean? i have flashbacks to esp keyman of hope and change. the political system talks about hope they give it a new emphasis in terms to be practical.

>> from o billion change from the obama campaign it was i hope the government will help me. [laughter] that is what it can damage to. i hope i hit the lottery. you can help all you want it is outside your control but that is not the traditional understanding of pope a good psychological study shows when you talk about a whole but it is out of your control it is a power issue it cuts into your dignity and is a problem. it achaean we done and i can do it that is the driver of a great grandparents to said i hope i can be rewarded for my hard work. >> host: that is a part where it is related to the american dream.

>> the pursuit of happiness intertwined it can be done and i can do it if i see that is how it starts. >> i was of little thrown off we referenced pope francis you talk about having it goes back to pharao grammy europe is also part of the hope narrative with the pope francis idea how vague reversals of others and how it plays

itself out in the political context? >> but i am talking about a different set of ideas talking about a society about having children with those since the aspiration he is the one who coined the term. that is brutal i don't have a lot of family in europe or we do have a lot of family but there is a word that means not steadying and not working all of these jobs don't have any religion the romantic relationships nothing. tv or video games.

effectively this leads to a society to stop evolving and making process when dash progress he had european leaders before him at the commission and he gave a speech there was daudet's silence. [laughter] but you're not procreating you have a religion. [laughter] >> people don't quite understand particularly those progressives to real for him or against him but neither one of you get what he says but he makes the point take a look at what is happening to the policies to those actions you are taking or not taking to that

political process to that -- so it changes its self. i am curious looking at the political landscape how dead is ati feed the beast? we have seen a number of organizations that have perpetrated this sort of negative narrative because it translates to the money but then you have others that tried to lift the conversation is that attention of the political process?

>> thousands of people watching right now are very frustrated with washington. nothing is getting done is gridlock. people say but you have to do is you need more liberal republicans and conservative democrats. but you need a moral consensus we're fighting for opportunities but the jobs is to offer policy ideas that can help execute that surface. if you don't consider it - - discuss the moral concerns when dash consensus

then that is a problem so let's not forget these our policy differences if we do that they could do that without pretending. >> is a big stumbling block because in my time as elected officials as a political figure right have avoided using is compromise they think they have to give up something so the word that i think that works best in this political environment is consensus take you believe what is truth you to bring it to the table of conversation. that is where institutions

like yours play a role to set the guidepost looking at a the complicated issues to make them not just relevant but understood are now 25 you because you have a different position. how does that play itself out as they take a cue from an institution like yours but easier lower common denominator spaces? >> the great disappointment politically was a that barack obama was elected but

he campaigned on unity the campaign to on division the liberals will say he was blockaded that we have been chief executive no that you never blame the people down the food chain. whether a professor or not but the boss's boss johnson didn't make that excuse reagan didn't make that excuse both of them by the way were pretty awesome so governing went to a dangerous phenomenon so that divisive republicans today you need visionaries to

declare their individual -- independence and what is the formula? what are the elements? that you would pull out and vote is that visionary? it is up process of evolution and if you are willing to do it so there are elements of that. the you had in mind for visionary. >> we're fighting for people that there is one thing to

help us to be an optimist on behalf of people who don't currently have a. that is the job of american leaders. >> that is something barack obama did to create a sense of hope the governor don pessimism in division they don't take responsibility they are distracted. >> host: how do you flip that script? is spent 18 months of your life campaigning and open change you can see that gravitational pull for the first time and

african-americans then what happened? >> how do these individuals that bring hope to the table get mired and sucked into the pessimism? >> so that is a false image? >> it is much harder to govern. >> if you say to read that you have to govern with a sense to bring back hope it's hard to bring that myself. >> that vision of your optimism if you run the rnc

the first agreement you invited me over because you are a relationship guy. they bring people in to develop these relationships with people feel their way to have that flexibility is to have a relationship otherwise they're all campaign promises that is my government is hard work the manager in the leadership that comes is hard work to do with other people and to remember why. those people are suffering think of how many poor people we need to fight for higher reliability is to manage or assets to develop

you will develop a relationship that you can't. >> land-use stay in the book i will repeat it is important help is important but hope is the central but that struck me in that section where year talk about that because it ties into what you say that the aspirational leader who will talk about that. that is where they get tripped up so they think i have to help you that hope is the essential element. >> parents to this to.

no. how do i set them free if you're thinking clearly you think what can i do to get the barriers out of the way? that is now government should take of citizens as well. [laughter] what i talk about the for the secrets of a happy life estate common family, a committee handwork how can the government to assist? committee handwork how can the government to assist? rigo day dash department of state family community and work those that say what can i do today to get out of the way to build their families are participating communities with the incentive for ordinary work.

we are fragmenting committees and disincentives for people to work. i am understand what goes on as officials try to do something if a kid is hopeful that they're not helping because they don't provide help with the barriers. >> if you focus on jobs and pay equity but if you in title at pushing the bucket bucket, what is that? [laughter] >> och i did a lot of field work we're looking at data but this is field were keitel dozens of stories.

i went to a homeless shelter in new york city specializing in ben mostly thirties and four days a lot of them have spent time in prison. this is the population that we throw away down hardest to deal with in prison without families and are homeless. if anybody is a liability it is them. i met a couple they said we believe they are the asset or not? if we do with the gephardt is cases through the ministry of honest work will help the but their lives together. so there held to strict behavioral standards such as labor held to thank god our assets were children the

first is to push the bucket down fifth avenue. they are quitting because streets. it is not degrading because they get paid for it echoes into was savings accounts that have to pay child support when they migrate into other programs he never had a job this one guy after being 18 years in prison after one year he pushes the bucket then learns how to be an exterminator i said you've purchased by a full-time job i you happy? he says look at the e-mail. from his boss emergency bedbug job i need you now. i need you now.

look at this. that is the pursuit of happiness. >> host: to be heated and to have your value recognize that goes back to the underlying themes that is what we used tear talk about as g.o.p. as a value that replenished. take the chapter to push the bucket given you flash for word that jeb bush has got to criticism that i would love to get your take talking about work is of blessing and link it to others but then you had jabbed bush talking about

people wanting or needing to work for and the progressives to it that the wrong way. i thank but tried to get around to the point to recognize the of the ideal employers were changing the definition of full-time work so they don't get penalized but people want to work more they valued at. >> jeb bush was is unfairly characterized as new jersey and takers.

we have too big and above underrates and america. that is not the problem that adds to the unemployed people better involuntarily under employed this is the problem we have been our country today there went to work harder and get ahead but they cannot do when somebody has to fight for these people and allows them to work harder so there is more opportunities. how did we get ahead? our working harder people were well educated coming from families that valued education with ethical standards, was it just for us or poor people? what kind of country is that? >> a lot of that worthwhile dash work ethic was a

laundry worker in washington d.c. 45 years making minimum-wage raising her kids with that work ethic never dissipated and was instilled in me and my sister and it is amazing how retransmission to wear that is not recognized nor appreciated if people think the poor want to stay that way. i don't know about you but how many people said i want to be for. >>, people say i want to get no welfare check instead of a paycheck? >> bell left is deeply guilty to hold them to lower standards but the right has its own conscience to of the times they have said people want their free stuff.

there has to be somebody out there but i don't know them. i know a lot of for people -- poor people they should have the same standards of dignity for eveready and florida of left to do that it is wrong because one is not true or helpful and it will kill the republican party. >> host: i agree on that point exactly that is a perfect transition because i still identified in so many ways. rand is was exciting the way you create the narrative

talking about our early founders i like to mix it up i believed in pushing the envelope so i love this event i will tie it into rosa parks and it starts with sam adams it does not require the majority to prevail to set a brush fire in people's mind i thought that described so much of that revolutionary spirit of

the whole movement in this part of the century byte then you build a social movement looking at the civil-rights struggle and i th3 civil-rights struggle and i threw in the peace that contract with america to get power back to the people had to get into a sense of the social movement? >> it starts up in society set a lot of times if you have a protest movement mothers against drunk drivers the civil-rights struggle started off as a protest movement and it was

hugely important to to do so a lot of good things start this way but if they don't fight the injustice to fight for the people who are the object of that. >> is an important distinction. with the people that you fight for to have the strong moral overlay the protest movements are up against though world but is it that interested in. but ultimately your goal should be eighth to be a majority of a protest but then to move on how society can do better.

>> one was the civil rights movement talking about the busboy, and those important elements the doctor came with such a visionary it was his role tuesday i cannot believe we used to do that. we cannot believe that jim crow laws but the state of south carolina and the african-american senator boren pour to lower the confederate battle flag to the cheers of the south carolinian is that is how things have changed moving from protest movement to a social movement to fight for all people with the common

consensus. >> of a conservative social justice what does that look like we have the voting rights act when pushing in the house? you have concerns about voting rights in the shootings, the tensions that have arisen, how does a party begin to redress a conservative social justice? then you have rand paul who tries to lead. >> it starts by recognizing at read you say social justice but social justice

is very important to use those values that it is that a dose is very important tear talk about these things how republicans talk about it moral cultural wars. but he said told my kids to buy standards and want them to have the best life they are our kids to port children -- poor children are our children to if they need to declare peace right now the public they funded safety net i know it is ever rassle spending but the idea

that we can help people because of capitalism that created so much largess that is a great achievement all the floor people better indigent it moves the safety net and everybody is taking then it is unsustainable. >> you have a presidential candidate that air is articulating redistribution of wealth if that is the agenda how do you keep in place those values systems because clearly what i value has no value speenineteen

wants -- bernie sanders wants the united states to be norway but we would be greece the egregious as commander region system are very similar but that is about massive scale. >> is about massive scale. >> that third part of the social justice agenda means education reform radical work creation and entreprenuers pushed to the bottom they are assessed for rich people entreprenuers is not about rich people it is about building your life we haven't gotten too far out of the weeds we talk about the licensing and washington d.c. if you wonder realtor it is 135 hours to get your

license that is a great second job if you want to be a hair dresser to break here that is a typical first job for a mother that is poor of license with 120-0500 hours you have to go to school for one year that is discrimination that is anti-poor behavior. >> host: you have to know how the chemicals work. >> innovation and choice. every public policy to bring those for college education to want to work hard to takes five weeks to put gutter's waterhouse we have people who are laid off and cannot find jobs. we have to do better

especially to push the those of freedom as other people enjoy down to the bottom. >> host: with this, where do you see us at the end of the cycle? as far as i am concerned this is of prescription i said how did this man get my head? you articulated what a lot of conservatives have felt is missing but this brings them together but i am left with a question how this unfolds now where do you see

this going? how do you see this play itself out? and this book being on the table, what is that take away? >> for conservative optimism of did it is irresponsible not to be optimistic this is a manual how to project optimism so people understand your world views. if it works the republicans and conservatives will be seeing much more aspirational to break out of the shackles.

they will experience an incredible victory to take the country for word then we will have the virtuous competition. >> into a kind of conservatism. >> it is real conservatism widow indeed up qualifier. >> i am compassionate i am not been. [laughter] but do you really understand with the dignity of work and the sanctity of the child of god. >> how are we so far off the path? >> guy vander stand the frustration and that people lawyers so a greek they feel they're losing their country

that there lash out i understand that frustration when you fill light flashing out that is the most in the control. >> even on the progressive side? >> it is a lot less interesting for the press and for the media. you never know what will come out of his mouth. [laughter] but with bertie's theaters how interesting can that be? that the left is moving to the left more than the right is moving to the right now is into a flexible aspiration space you'll now see a candidate who frames

himself as the candidate of desperation on incurred. >> host: you have high praise for the book from cool people like paul ryan bruce says the cause -- that "the conservative heart" should be at the center of our efforts. that is the more important take away that it does give a prescription how to fight for something. . .

share with book, the conservative heart. >> guest: michael thank you. you are an inspiration to me. those who you got it my friend. you are watching the tv in prime-time on c-span2. tonight we are focusing our programming on our "after words" program and we want to introduce you to leona who is the producer of "after words" for booktv. leona up next senator amy klobuchar another senator with a book out, "the senator next door" who did you pick to

interview her and why? >> guest: we chose susan page to interview her. this is someone who has a good knowledge of washington and a good knowledge of how congress works so we thought that would be a good conversation for viewers. >> host: how long have you been with booktv and what is your history with c-span? >> guest: i've been with booktv since march of this year but i'm a former c-span are. i was here back in 1993 when i worked for didn't "washington journal" at that time. >> host: where did he go after that? >> guest: after that i love to spend some time with my daughter and watched her grow up and worked in health care for a little bit. >> host: we are glad leona is back in here senator amy klobuchar. >> host: senator amy klobuchar congratulations on your new book, "the senator next door." >> guest: thank you susan. >> host: is pleasure to be able to talk about it. in the prologue you talk about an early brush with sexism and in