where these issues are complicated and require those of us who care, and you do, to be able to explain what is going on. it is really hard. >> that's a whole other conversation ever now please join me in thanking secretary madeleine albright. [applause] ..

but tv is also visiting buffalo, new york this weekend to for its literary sites and talk to its local authors. for complete schedule go to booktv.org and you can fall was on social media,@booktv is r. twitter handle, you can call was on facebook as well, facebook.com/booktv. 48 hours of nonfiction books and authors every weekend on booktv, television for serious readers. we are kicking off the weekend with author wil haygood, he examines the life and career of thurgood marshall specifically five day senate hearing that resulted in his confirmation as the first african-american to serve on the supreme court.

>> i want to acknowledge and thank c-span for being here tonight. [applause] >> let me just say one quick thing about thurgood, how important he was to our country, for african-americans, for those who wanted to go to law school, african americans who wanted to go to moscow. i was a part of that generation who looked up to him, who believed in him, who was inspired by him, but i too some they could go to law school and i someday could become a lawyer. and there's a whole generation of people just like me who hogan on to do that because of the bravery and courage of thurgood

marshall. said tonight we are easier, gathered here this evening comment and i use this really as the intersection of history and the future. what do i mean by that? the intersection of history and the future? we are in lincoln theater, in this theater, this was the only place where black folks could come and get entertained in the theater they couldn't go downtown because they come right here. and this theater was nearly demolished, a wrecking ball. we saved it, renovated it, it is now one of the jewels of the city of columbus. history tonight. [applause]

and the intersection of culture in the black community, the rehabilitation, rejuvenation, recreations of this king lincoln district, in of process, history and the future, the intersection, wil haygood, who was raised in columbus went to east high school, caught himself playing basketball, everything he learned in life he learned here in the city of columbus. [applause] is values, his skill, his inspiration, his first writing job was for the post which was located right around the corner in this very neighborhood. wil haygood is someone who never

forgot about our city even though he has gone on to win awards, written multiple books, great books. one of his books turned into a movie, the butler. someone who cares deeply about his past, deeply about the city of columbus and he is now one of its not the premier great american biographer in our country, someone we are proud of in the city of columbus. [applause] wil haygood, somebody needs to tell the stories of our people or they will be lost. and he does it in an eloquent way, in a way that is exciting

and moving and inspiring for the future. for our children. i say we could never plan ahead unless we understand from where we come, and wil haygood has been that person, explained when we come from, we can march on to the future and he has many more stories to tell. history and our future intersecting here tonight at lincoln theater, thurgood marshall. thurgood marshall visited columbus many times. we did some research on him. it was somewhere between 9, and 13, 14 times revisited columbus. in fact it goes all the way back to 1938. when he first came to columbus, first recorded time he came to columbus, he may have come before is that. but in 1938 he came to columbus,

five years after he graduated from howard law school he can to our city to advocate, to participate, to speak, and many times thereafter, often at the naacp annual meeting in the city of columbus, probably stay at st. clair hotel which is right around the corner on garfield because back in those days black folks couldn't stay at the hotel downtown. like they couldn't go to the theaters downtown. so they came to this area of our community. the harlem of the midwest. i can envision thurgood marshall walking up and down streets of mount vernon avenue going to our

churches, walking up and down the streets of longstreet, i can envision thurgood marshall being in this theater at some point in time because everybody came to this theater on longstreet during that period of time so this is an intersection between history and our future. with thurgood marshall, thurgood marshall helped set the path for the future of our country in many ways, set the path for all of us tonight to enjoy the fruits of democracy, but true american that did so many good things to lift up our nation. lincoln theater, wil haygood, marshall, all at one time, in one place in the city of

columbus. how fitting. [applause] that the son of columbus, he is our son, picks his city in this theater where thurgood marshall probably spend time on the streets of longstreet and mount vernon avenue. tonight you are going to hear about the lowdown with the showdown. thank you. [applause] >> the one thing i forgot to tell you is i spent 16 years as president of the king arthur complex and now six years as chairman of this board ended is great have the two institutions

collaborate and this is the first of many to come. is my distinct honor and pleasure to give you a brief overview of wil haygood although he needs no introduction to this audience. he has authored seven nonfiction books including a trilogy, biographies of iconic 20th anniversary figures, hailed as culturally important by the los angeles times, the king of the cats, the life and times of adam clayton powell jr. a new york times notable book of the year, the second book of great noteworthy, in black and white, the life of sammy davis jr. multiple award winner and the next book was called sweet thunder, the life and times of sugar ray robinson, named as a best book of the year by forbes.

his other books are two on the river about a 2500 mile journey down the mississippi river and a family memoir, the story, the butler needs no introduction. story of eugene allen, a white house butler who's served eight presidents, turned into a blockbuster movie. wil haygood's career has been notable. 17 years he was national foreign correspondent for the boston globe. in 1990 he covered the civil war in somalia and was taken hostage by the rebels, he was eventually released with the aid of pakistan troops. on another court foreign correspondents he found himself outside south africa, the south african prison where freedom fighter nelson mandela was released after 27 years of imprisonment.

little-known fact, he was one of the few american journalists to report from behind the berlin wall. wil haygood has been a john simon guggenheim fellow and national endowment for the humanities fellow. these are two of the highest awards bestowed upon and author. wil haygood has been called america's cultural historian. he has explored the social and historic dynamics of this country as few writers have. the works of wil haygood come to life. as he says, his works are meant to engage in a conversation, going back to the old school way of life, simply let's wrap. that stands for revitalization of the apathetic public, and i would agree. that is what he says motivates

him, revitalized him and gives him the insight to write these meaningful historical journey. as wil haygood says his subjects must inspire him. by that he means they are welcome at his dining room table for a sunday dinner. he wants to be able to talk with him and that is how he chooses his subject. his book king of the cats come adam clayton powell jr. tells about this harlem congressman's rise to power and fame, it reveals one of the most effected legislative persons in the history of congress. adam clayton powell jr. like thurgood marshall formed a bond with lyndon johnson that moved major legislation through the house like no other. king of the cats is historically significant. adam clayton powell crossed paths with that they 11 and they occasionally communicated. they had a common bond in their interests were all lined.

this is another one of those journeys that wil haygood takes a us to better grasp the significance of historic figure who happens to be african-american. in black and white, the life of sammy davis jr. we learn that sammy davis jr. was a fierce, dedicated, passionate civil rights advocate. the coordinated, pulled together black and white entertainers to assist martin luther king in the civil rights movement, we witnessed the struggle sammy went through in his conversion of his religion. we get an inside seat to his interaction with the rat pack, frank sinatra and company. we are witness to history when sammy places a kiss on richard nixon and his career is forever diminished. the book also tells us in the nixon/kennedy race for president it was clear that based upon the history nixon was more deserving of the black vote than kennedy.

we witnessed firsthand that no entertainer has the skills of sammy davis jr.. there is a scene where he plays every instrument in the orchestra and we know about his ability to sing and dance, sweet thunder, the life and times of sugar ray robinson, sugar ray robinson pound for pound may be the best prizefighter the world has ever seen and that would include muhammad ali. will will tell us sugar ray was not just a fighter, he was not harlem renaissance man, he loved the arts, that include literature, and dance, song and art. sugar ray interacted with all the great entertainment and artists during the harlem renaissance, this cat was hit and this cat was cool and will told us about it. we get to see sugar ray in the light that no other author could have brought to life and again

will resurrected an icon. the story of eugene allen, the butler reserved eight presidents, who turned into a very successful blockbuster movie, again will brings to life someone who was invisible to americans. will gives us the dignity, grace, the discipline, the hard work of an individual who believed in the american dream. he brings to light an individual who was present but invisible during critical times in our american history, over eight presidents. only by wil haygood had the insight to give us this perspective and the cultural competence to do so in such a magnificent way. "showdown: thurgood marshall and the supreme court nomination that changed america" brought the constitution to life, define the rules, and lived by the rules and i will be you and your own game. was recently nominated for the

prestigious 2016 andrew carnegie medal for excellence in nonfiction. [applause] >> not that the trade magazines and technical journals an end all, but wil haygood is to seeker showdown four stars, they are from journals and magazines across this prestigious literary world, star reviews from publishers weekly, the library journal and blacklist. that atlantic magazine said it best, wil haygood has with "showdown: thurgood marshall and the supreme court nomination that changed america". wil haygood's decision to focus on marshall's confirmation hearing cruising genius. we at the lincoln theater in debt to wil haygood as our first inductee into our walk of fame,

we were smart. wil haygood did our first fund-raiser with the publication of this any davis jr. book. in the library, we met at the office four or five years ago, i don't recall, but what the library has done in addition to this one city one book bringing the community together is extraordinary. wil haygood and i were talking about family members, who traditionally have not read, each of us gave our brother a copy of "showdown: thurgood marshall and the supreme court nomination that changed america," and each of our brothers engaged like nothing else and we had a conversation different from any other we have had before. this is the magic that wil haygood has provided for this community, this state and this

nation. when the world looks at america and says this is the journey we went through a to arrive at the crossroads we are today, this book brings us to a place that i think we can engage in a discussion about race where no ever has before. ladies and gentlemen, we present to you mr. wil haygood. sit back, relax, hold on and enjoy the show. thank you a million times over. [applause] [applause]

>> for some reason, the odor i get unless high mind people saying extravagant, beautiful, lovely things about me, i find that somewhat peculiar. i am going to have more to say about larry james in a moment. when i was growing up in this neighborhood going to monroe jr.

high school down the street, me and my sister walked to school together and those were the days when everybody had a transistor radio. you could hold it up to your ear and listened, or put it in your pocket. there was a very catchy tune from those days that i remember, it spoke with spoken verse, it starts like this. hey, man, i hear you are pretty good on your feet, don't you know there is a dance down on market street. hey, hey, it is going to be a

showdown. going to be a showdown, showdown. and i have been humming that a lot. even if i did leave my band back in d.c.. in the evening this wouldn't be possible without a great coalition coming together. organizations across the city have bonded and emerged to make this night possible and to bring at native son home. i am very mindful that great people, great organizations are

represented here tonight, starting with bill connor, susan bradford, she is wearing a dazzling dresses, and i took note of that, the lincoln theater. the king of the arts complex, the columbus public library and the mayor's office. i can't cite everybody individually but there are some people here that i would like to acknowledge. i will say a little something about you and you can stand up. some of you know that i teach at my alma mater, miami university

in oxford, ohio. the lady whose signs my checks is here so why wouldn't i introduced her first? she is the provost, miami univ. dallas callahan. [applause] >> dear friend of mine who used to protect me on these rough streets back in the day. many of you know him as a championship prize fighter. [applause] >> the athletic director of the ohio state university, eugene smith, i think he is here.

[applause] >> one of the great attorneys of this country, alex shoemake. a guy i used to talk with a lot about sports and white, jerry saunders. [applause] >> last year i received boat rosanna james foundation award named after an alabama civil rights pioneer. she is 90 years younger. rosetta james is here. and i would like her to stand up. she is an icon of american civil

rights movement. [applause] >> she is up in the balcony. to march with martin luther king jr.. [applause] >> i can't tell you how touched i was when she called me and said she wants to come. guy who i grew up with on the north side of town, your friend and mine who talked a lot about thurgood marshall in the past five years, bob miller.

[applause] >> i studied at miami under this professor. he was in the civil rights movement, he marched with john lewis, the selma hero. he was also jailed for marching in the movement. rick momeyer. [applause] >> his wife is here, during my stay in oxford, ohio. [applause] >> a writer and dream of a

moment like this when their book has been selected. in the citywide program to be read by everyone at the same time. i will be coming back in a month with some multiple multiple multiple, what did we used to call those? multiple choice questions. i can't thank the library in of where i used to go on saturday mornings with my $0.50. there was never a car in my family, go to tokyo, i could go to paris, i could go to memphis, tenn. i could go to chicago if i

could get myself into the library. the genius behind all that has been hat was in ski. [applause] >> i will be returning to the city, i am going on the 24 city book tour. i will be returning to the city october 21st to up here at the ohio state university, the patient came from the vice provost of diversity inclusion at the ohio state university and her name is sharon davies. [applause]

>> my cousin just flew in today from atlanta, charles nichols. my two sisters, diane and wanda are here. [applause] >> my very suave brothers here from los angeles, kerri. [applaus . [applause] a man i got to know a few years back because i wrote this story about him, chief james jackson. [applause] >> itt be a journalism and film at miami, the chairman of the

department played a large role in getting me to leave war zones in journalism and he is here, dr. richard campbell. [applause] >> david harrison has done a lot in his community, social justice at columbus state college, david harrison. vonage james, absolutely wonderful.

israeli king center honored african-american judges this year and their legacy honorees. there was a mé in champion junih

school the brown vs. board of education decision. he authored one of the last great legal decisions in this country linked to brown vs. board of education. the decision that desegregated the school system in this city in 1974. he became the first african-american federal judge from this community. i think every african-american lawyer owes him a great-.

you can put his name in the same paragraph as thurgood marshall, and you would be proud to do so. his name, judge robert m. duncan. [applause] i have traveled from washington d.c. with a book for him and his family. his wife, shirley duncan, is here. i am so honored by her presence i would like her to stand up. [applause]

>> during my research for the thurgood marshall book "showdown: thurgood marshall and the supreme court nomination that changed america," i came across a letter from a lady named barbara ross. i was in arkansas visiting the archives of senator john mcclellan who was one of the segregationists senators who did not want thurgood marshall to extend to the high court. ida second day of the hearing it was thought that marshall's nomination was in trouble because he was being grilled so harshly. a young lady wrote a matter and

she concluded her letter to her arkansas senator with these words, chances are the nomination will be turned down. colored doesn't make the person senator, is character that makes the man. one of these days, senator, the president of the united states will be a negro. years later, a kid born in this city in 1954, the year of thurgood an end march, became a writer. that kid, now of grown men, would find himself rolling through the fields of journalism in a charleston, west region yet to pittsburgh, pa. to boston, mass. to the washington post in washington. the kid, now what man and a

writer, had an inkling that the senator from chicago might win the 2000 election. you went down and tracked down an african-american but there. stephan roussan after the story that the kid born in 1954 road, the kid who became the man who became the writer, was hired as a technical adviser to the movie, the hollywood movie producers started to make in

2012. one day, he was in the white house. he bumped into the negro president who barbara ross had predicted would be in the white house. the president asked stefan what he was up 2. i was hired to be the technical adviser, stopped in the white house today because i wanted to get a little gift for the writer for wil haygood who wrote the story. the negro president who barbara ross predicted would win turned on his heels and when back into his office and came out.

he said he had something in a blue leather case, encased in velvet, he gave it to stephan rush sean is said thank you, mr. president, i know for a fact will is going to love this. the president said i think he will love it too. the gift that the kid born in 1954 received from the negro president who barbara ross had predicted is the presidential ink pen that i have taken from now under lock and key in my home and brought here tonight and signed every book that you will leave here with this evening. [applause]

>> nothing, nothing is more personal than deciding who you are going to dedicate your book to. "showdown: thurgood marshall and the supreme court nomination that changed america" has been dedicated to two people, both like and the thurgood marshall trained in the law, their presidents of this city, i wanted to do a little something

special for these people. so this first person received the first copy of this book from the printing press. and i also went to a jeweler in washington because i wanted a gold-plated nameplate designed to put in front of the book. when i asked the jeweler how much it would cost, i said maybe i should go with a post it. [applause] but i didn't go with a post it. i went with the gold plated name plate and it says the first copy

of this book, "showdown: thurgood marshall and the supreme court nomination that changed america" by wil haygood, to roll off of the printing press, at is exclusively for michael -- michael coleman. [applause] >> i would like the mayor to come up and accept this book. [applause] >> thank you very much. >> i have always wanted to feel like the mayor and this has given me an opportunity to do so because i have written a citation to gome an opportunity

because i have written a citation to go along with the book. i gave myself the power to issue a citation. this is michael coleman's. it says to michael coleman, in the dark days of legal segregation and state-sponsored terrorism, the black sharecroppers and their families of the deep south gave out upon the fields they worked. they were looking for hope, they wanted to dream, so on man arrived on the scene and began marching into the state and federal court houses throughout the south. pecan changing because, he won writes for those in the fields and the rights for those in the big cities too. some of these people began

referring to him as moses. his name was actually thurgood marshall. as laypeople we do not need to anoint man or woman at st. but it helps us to know our heroes have saintly ambitions. you first took public office, you have sought to lift up like thurgood marshall your vision has helped all races and creeds. thurgood marshall once said of someone he greatly admired, you didn't wait, you took the bull by the horns, you didn't wait for the time you made them. it has been noted in this midwestern city and beyond, you broke barriers. you didn't wait for the times, you made them. you have earned your place in the collective memories of some

many. as you prepare to leave city hall, consider this book that has been dedicated to you, a mighty wave from thurgood marshall in a literary valentine from a writer born in the very city you have led. wil haygood, lincoln theater, september 29th, 2015. [applause] [applause]

>> the next dedication reads the second copy of this book thurgood marshall 11 -- "showdown: thurgood marshall and the supreme court nomination that changed america" to roll off of the printing press is exclusively for larry james. i would like larry james to come to the stage. [applause] >> larry, with the power invested in me. [laughter]

i will not read your citation. to larry james. in the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s the big fancy law firms of this great nation would have nothing to do with thurgood marshall. his name would never go on one of their buildings and he knew it. he did not be known his polite. he had a higher calling. he was fighting in the trenches on behalf of justice and freedom, have sand walls came tumbling down, but history as we know, can turn rather beautifully. now there are many buildings with the name thurgood marshall. since 2001 larry james has had his name grace the law firm in downtown columbus.

[applause] yet even with that distinction, time and time again, larry james has returned to the trenches, fighting in the name of justice and freedom. he has won so many of his showdowns. larry james is thurgood marshall kind of lawyer. someone once asked thurgood marshall about his personal successes. i'd doug weight deep, he said. larry james in the universe of law, art, books and philanthropy, you have such a glorious standard, this book is dedicated to you because like thurgood, you have doug weight

deep. wil haygood, lincoln theater, september 29, 2015. [applause] one of the things that president lyndon johnson said after he nominated thurgood marshall after thurgood marshall was confirmed, he said i want every black mother to be able to looked across the breakfast table in the morning and know now that her son or daughter can become a great supreme court

justice or great judge. the mother of algenon marbley was one of those ladies. she looked across the breakfast table and ford a dream into her son. i am very proud to prepare to have a conversation with algenon marbley who is yet one more of those seeds that sprouted in the glow of the great and mighty thurgood marshall. algenon marbley, please come to the stage. [applause]

>> thank you. have a seat. now for the book. there have been in excess of 20 biographies written about thurgood marshall. what was the impetus for "showdown: thurgood marshall and the supreme court nomination that changed america," which tells justice marshall's story through the context of the confirmation process? >> there have been multiple books on marshall. with this book i am hoping --

someone once came to duke ellington and said they were going to make a song, they were going to reach record a song dizzy gillespie had made, and duke said don't, dizzy has closed the door on that song. i am hoping to people will pick up my book and if someone else comes up with an idea to write a book about thurgood marshall that they will say don't, wil haygood has closed the door on that. [applause] what i think vote though , was magnet to me was the nomination as five days of the 12 days and

it was in limbo. before him known nominee hearings had lasted more than a day. with southerners leading the charge i wanted to find out why they wanted to stop thurgood marshall. >> you told it beautifully. >> okay. >> against the backdrop of confirmation proceedings. we will talk at length about that. it is also a not very poignant story about the relationship between two great men, the relationship between thurgood and when and johnson and why don't you tell us why you chose that particular approach and use that as a subtext?

>> these are two men who were somewhat poor in their youth on monday the was born with a silver spoon in their mouth. when you are for its folks inside of you. i think it does something to you. it sort of gives you a quicker gear into people especially if you are inclined to help people. thurgood marshall as this naacp lawyer went to texas to fight a voting rights case. in 1948 blacks were being

forbidden for the most part to vote in the white primaries in the democratic primary. marshall took the case all the way to the supreme court and won. a young senate candidate started winning election after election and that senate candidate was lyndon johnson. so you can't argue, i know some people think it is the other way around but you can argue no thurgood marshall, no lyndon johnson. because with the help of the blacks in texas they kept sending lyndon johnson back to the senate and in the senate he gained seniority and he became as we all know, senate leader. >> there is the reason lyndon

johnson felt so comfortable around blacks in texas. fd are made certain of that. >> yes. he appointed young lyndon johnson to head the national youth program through the state of texas and lyndon johnson would get in a car and drive around the state and visit blacks in houston and dallas and san antonio and he would constantly tell them that one day things are going to be better. i won't forget you. i think that scarred him in a very humane way. >> we are going to get to lyndon johnson and why he was hellbent on the marshall nomination, but first i want to have some

personal context for thurgood marshall. he was raised in segregated baltimore. you gave us a great glimpse into the window into the justice's family, but was there a defining moment or set of circumstances that you feel made him the fierce advocate that he was. >> from his father, to fight back, and other racial epithets at him but thurgood marshall had a job in a hat store and one day he hopped on a railway car and useful to stand in the back and he said i can't because these cats might fall of my arm and get squished and i would have to pay for them. the conductor argued with him,

shoved him, he fell down, summoned the police and thurgood marshall, 19 years old, was arrested. he thought that was wrong and of course it was wrong. the hat store owner, bails thurgood marshall el. he had been jailed as a young man for no reason except the color of his skin. >> that resonated with him. >> that resonated a lot and that was coupled with the fact that his father used to like to take him in and out of state to federal courthouses because thurgood learned at a young age that the loss subjugated blacks. he got it in his mind i need to make the law elevate blacks.

he was constantly fighting the act of subjugation against the hope and promise to elevate. >> he got much of the impetus about how the law could elevate from our young dean of howard university. >> yes, charles hamilton houston. he was a great lawyer. >> harvard trained. to came to harvard to resuscitate the program. >> it is often argued. >> how important was that relationship in setting the trajectory for thurgood's career and tell us about about the impact of a soldier in summer of 33 and dean houston? >> dean houston was a very formal man, very sophisticated, wanted to go south to look at the school system, didn't want

to go by himself, he was afraid, with good reason. he asked this tall, strapping, onetime student of his. >> congratulated -- >> recent graduate. the asked marshall if he would like to ride in a car with him. ..

they were often scared. they were sometimes threatened. but they survived. marshals mother and father were worried sick he was down south. >> what's interesting about it is they didn't personally witness acts of violence and brutality that characterized some of the anecdotal tales that you set so eloquently. did i say that right? so eloquently in the book. but you trace the violent history of race relations in the south and to talk about how you called it state-sponsored terrorism earlier. in my notes i have domestic terrorism as the same thing but what impact did that have on thurgood as he traveled throughout the south in his quest for justice?

and how did he handle the? >> one of the amazi things to me in doing this book was witnessing through reading and research the amazing bravery of thurgood marshall spirit and the lawyers who traveled with him. >> yes. he would often get to a town and the local black farmers would have to hide in. they would take turns with their shotguns. they would have to guard him through the night. he was the nation's best hope. he was a one man crusade. he had other lawyers who he would recruit and help them file cases, but he was the architect of this strategy. where to go here and politics and take it to th the the supret and we have to go here to texas

and then we have to go to florida and new mexico to michigan. not all of his cases were filed in the south. there were bills up north as well. -- bills. the book is shaped around five days of the hearing and room 2228. >> the hearings didn't exist. you had to give the hearings context which is why you told those many stories. >> et cetera i wanted to take the reader outside of the ring room because hearings can be somewhat civil, however thurgood marshals were not that civil but this hearing room was not covered i depressed either. >> talk about freedom of the press. marshall's for big horsemen who did not want passionate senator

sam ervin of north killington senator strom thurmond of south carolina and speedy senator mcclelland. >> john macleod of arkansas. they were powerful. they were called behrens innocent. they had huge staff. >> they were also called by the "l.a. times" a pack of wolves. >> yes, yes. a nice line. a pack of wolves. >> that was a fair characterization. >> yes. i didn't say it. it was said in the "l.a. times." >> that's right, but getting back to his travels through the south, because a couple of those had tortured if not violate past himself. you explain in the book, but i was struck by the circumstance of harriet and harry more who as it turned out with the first naacp members killed in the line of duty.

>> right. these were dear friends of thurgood marshals. they were husband and wife, voting rights activists are they came home one night. it was actually christmas the. they went to bed. while they were away some a klansman had stuck dynamite under their house. early on christmas morning the house blew up. harry moore died immediately. harriette was rushed to the hospital. thurgood marshall have loved these two people and he had slept in the guest bedroom several times. he could have been in that house that night if the had been working in florida. harry and harry it's daughter

who i interviewed -- harriet's daughter, she told me she'd been on a train trying to get home for christmas. and she was seated in a segregated section and nobody got word to her that her family was trying to find her when she stepped off the train on christmas day. she looked around and didn't see her mother and father and she thought that was mighty strange, and she saw some relatives walking toward her and she said werworst mommy and daddy? and they said we have to talk to you. she said, no note where's mommy and daddy? they said, well, evangelize, we are sorry, but your father is dead and your mother is holding on and she wants to see you at the hospital. the doctors told the family that if harriet could hang on for several days they thought she

would make it. she died on the sixth day. >> there was an interesting postscript, fast-forward to 1967 with it into line, wasn't there? >> oh, my goodness. what i was after house and i was interviewing her, over the course maybe four hours before it got ready to leave, she said, wil, and you come to my kitchen help you get something done for my top shelf? i said, sure. and as i was walking from the living room to her dining room, i stopped in my tracks. there was a big oil painting, gigantic, maybe five, maybe four feet by five feet it and i stopped in my tracks. it wasn't an oil painting of her father, harry moore, or her mother, harriet moore. it was an oil painting of thurgood marshall.

and i said, oh, my god. why didn't you tell me that this painting was hanging here? and she said, i don't know why. on the day that thurgood marshall was confirmed, a friend of mine in florida knew how close he was to me and my family. they had this oil portrait. they had it painted and shipped to me. i mean, i was just stunned. i mean, that hero was sitting there for four hours and thurgood marshall was right on the other side of the wall. [laughter] maybe he was listening. >> i'm sure he was proud of the work that you were doing, but you got to know them as a result of his work with the legal defense fund, and as you chronicled his life he was with

the defense fund for two years as being houston's associate at it for 38 to 60 when he ran the legal defense fund. you know, while he was there, if dr. king was a moral and spiritual leader of the civil rights movement, thurgood marshall certainly was a chief legal architect. he made law. it was a sterling advocate. he argued before the supreme court 32 times. he won 29 of those cases. once you set the legal defense fund would it be fair to say that he had trained his sights on dismantling separate but equal, and obliterating plessy v. ferguson? we all know he did that in the brown decision that has been discussed, bu thurgood marshall spent much time in the south battling other issues, wil. minigame before brown, and to

highlight the diversity of cases, the breath of his practiced ear why was that so important? you could've just written this book about those events leading up to brown. >> yes. for the simple reason to show his versatility. he was a highbrow lawyer and he was also a lawyer with the seat squarely on the ground. he went to tennessee one time. there was, this was in 19, world war ii era and there was a little small town. >> lawrenceburg. >> lawrenceburg tennessee. >> for once i read something other than the cliff notes.

[laughter] >> this mother wanted to take her radio back to the store. her son, her african-american son -- >> african-american soldiers on. >> yes. went to the store, and the mother was talking to the clerk who was white and said this radio doesn't work. and the clerk, a young white male said, you are a lie. you probably wrote it. and the sun looked up at clark -- at the clerk as his he was unsure someone had just called his mama a liar. the mother said, i'm not lying, you are.

the clerk slapped a black soldier's mother your country and -- slapped the black soldier's mother you're a soldier unleashed a punch they can only be summarized as a suite funded. it knocked the white clerk through the window. and by nightfall the city had been engulfed in a riot. and many blacks and some whites were shot. they called thurgood marshall to the rescue. marshall came and got most of those who have been convicted off, but one night marshall was getting out of town with a

couple other lawyers who worked on the case and they were stopped by the local sheriff. and they told him one time that he had been speeding and he said he wasn't. they told him to keep going and then they stopped in again and then they said -- >> to stop the second time to check for alcohol. >> drinking, yeah. then they stopped of a third time and they said you can't drive the car anymore. let this other person drive. then they went about 15 yards in the car, and then the sheriff stopped him and told everybody but marshall to get out. then they finally told marshall to get out and said he was being arrested for drunk driving. there was this river indus tennessee town called the duck river. when blacks were lynched they were thrown in the duck river their families would have to go get them.

the three sheriffs put thurgood marshall in the back of a car and started heading off to the duck river. the lawyers who are out of the car quickly found another ride, because there was a newsman who are following them and they quickly hopped in the car and followed the car toward the duck river. and the sheriffs got scared that they were going to be found out if they attempted to kill thurgood marshall so they took them on into town, and thurgood marshall survived that night i the skin of the state's. what was also interesting about that incident was when the ship stopped in the recovery of highway patrol cars in the vicinity. >> yes. >> who did not respond, didn't intervene. and when he was taken back into town they told him to get out of the car. they wanted him to walk to the

jail, but he was smart enough to know that once you start to walk away from that he's going to get shot in the back. you know, i'm not walking over there by myself. you've got to walk with me. on your prisoner. >> right, right. spent he lived long enough for you to write the book last night. >> -- long enough for you to write the book. [laughter] >> there was no foundation, no federal department of civil rights in the south to protect him or any black lawyer. the marshall formed an unusual alliance with come of all people, j. edgar hoover. he would chat up mr. hoover. he would complement him. he would bring back little knickknacks from the road for j. edgar hoover who probably

through the in the trashcan as soon as thurgood walk to out -- walked out. >> there was a recent thurgood got along so well with j. edgar hoover that other iconic figures such as dr. king did not. what would you attribute that to? >> hoover detested ku klux klan. he detested him. so marshall would get these horrific stories about the clan and said listen, mr. hoover, i was out of florida and i saw these 12 clansmen come to walking down the street. they own to slow down. you at the has to do something about that. y'all got to clean that little town. and hoover which is get worked out. where did you see them at? he would just get worked up. and marshall kept needling hoover. >> a lot of the relationship

though was based on the fact that marshall was a lawyer. you believe in the rule of law. and at least hoover held himself out as one given to the rule of law. t. think there was a commonality in their approach to problem solving? >> gets. marshall was very careful not to label himself liberal. marshall's theme was the u.s. constitution is the u.s. constitution, and the truth needs no defense. you're breaking the law. if you are rest of blacks for no reason come you're breaking the law. it says you can't do that in the u.s. constitution. he used to carry it in his pocket. getting back to the harry and harriet moore case, this would make a great scene in the movie, if it happens las.

[laughter] after the harry and harriet moore case there was scuttlebutt from the clan that they're going to kill thurgood before he got out of town. so marshall knew not to call the airport because one of the clerks there may tell somebody to me, marshall has a ticket for friday night at 7:30. so thurgood walk out of his motel, and it's dark and is getting ready to slowly make his way to the airport. he has a friend who was driving, and these two beefy looking men, white, start walking across the street, slowly.

see, now i think i'm lee daniels with the camera. [laughter] and they start walking across the street, and marshall is nervous and ask him to roll down the window. and one of them leans in and pulls out his fbi badge and says, mr. marshall, j. edgar hoover sent us. our mission is to get you to the airport and get you out of here safely. i mean, that's a great scene, because when they got to the airport and marshall and the two agents walk up to the desk, the clerk says, sorry, that next flight is sold out there as a matter of fact, there are no more flights going back to washington tonight, or tomorrow. and one of the beefy fbi agents leaned over the counter, got

nose to nose with the clerk and said, you better find a seat on that next airplane for this man, or else. and hourly thurgood marshall was in the air. >> edit health when the agent flashed his badge. >> yes, yes, absolutely, yes. >> let's talk about the confirmation hearing. and i can't come as i read the book, and as i read about those five days of the hearing, especially in the context of the violent episodes that you portrayed throughout the book, i couldn't help but think that the behavior of those southern democrats, a gang of five, was a metaphor for right -- for white hair to the stifle black advancement. did you mean to leave that impression with the reader, or

is that my southern roots coming to the floor to? >> no. because i'm from north carolina. >> sam irving was from my state. >> there were some very real things that happened that made ththese southerners who tried to stop thurgood marshall. first of all lyndon johnson, they considered him one of them. he was a southerner. he had signed the 1964 civil rights bill, which in johnson's mind, that was the first out in the coffin of white supremacy. at second nail in the coffin was in 1965 voting rights act of the third nail in the coffin of white supremacy was the nomination of thurgood marshall to the u.s. supreme court. lyndon johnson sought to emancipate the entire american judicial system by nominating thurgood marshall to the highest

court in the land. >> in june of 67 when he announced, or at least right before that, there wasn't a seat available. so we had to use his political savvy so the machinations of johnson politics to make that seat available. how did he make that seat available, wil? another fascinating story. >> lyndon johnson was hell-bent on integrating the u.s. supreme court. but as you noted there was no seat. and so there was a justice on the court named tom clark, anti-a lyndon johnson had texas roots. and so lyndon johnson wanted to see tom clark, tom, how are you doing?

how's the wife? tom, i wish i had a boy. i got all daughters. i love them daily, but wow, you got a boy. rainsy, i tell you something, i want to make rainsy my attorney general. but dang it, i can't do it because you are on the high court and they are going to accuse me of nepotism. but i'll tell you something, tom, i know how much you love that boy and i know how much that boy love you and i know in the dead in the country would be so proud to see his son ascend to the high court. but, tom, i hands are tied. there's nothing i can do because there's no vacancy. lord, i wish there was a

vacancy. [laughter] and a day later i interviewed justice clark's daughter. a day later, justice clark, in fine health, had a lifetime appointment, went home and said hey, hey everybody, you know, i'm tired of the court. [laughter] you know, i think it's time for me to take a long vacation, maybe play some golf spirit or take a trip around the world. >> travel. and so it happened. tom clark steps down. lbj nominates thurgood marshall. doesn't help a single senator until the day of the nomination. a month later former justice tom clark and his wife are sent first class tickets around the

world on a fact-finding mission. [laughter] >> nice way to retire. >> yes. >> what was the tone of the hearings from the outset? did you get the impression in doing your research, you tell me your research was done mostly through transcripts. the reason you're like most on the transcript and doing your research or the confirmation hearing. >> let me, let me correct that in case some of my miami students are out there. i went and tracked down as many people as i could your shoe leather, old-fashioned shoe leather mixup of my books. but the spine of the book as you run this it is the hearing, the hearings from the outset, james eastland, mississippi, who was

the chairman of loud the media and on the first day for 30 minutes and that's it. he said get out. that would never happen today. but he said get out. so they weren't there. you have asked me how come some of these rancorous things didn't make it into the media, into the newspapers of the day the that journalists weren't there. some of the senators who were on marshals site, because there were heroes, senator tydings of maryland, senator ted kennedy. >> senator hart. >> everett dirksen of illinois. these were great people who were fighting for marshall. >> dirksen was one of the republicans. >> yes, he was. one of the things that they, during the hearings, they tried

to paint marshall asked not sophisticated about the u.s. constitution. >> that was strom thurmond. >> right. >> we all know he was one of the more sophisticated person ever to grace the halls of congress. [laughter] >> that was pretty bizarre. for the simple fact that these were the leading figures, sam ervin -- >> noted constitutionalist. >> harvard law school. >> and to figure during the watergate but no so much during the series. >> right. harvard law school. and sam ervin, he collected books. he had about 35,000 books.

he went to the bookstores all the time and walked out with loads and loads of books. law books, books about history, books about the arts, books about religion. he had a ton of books and he was a very smart man. but nowhere in none of those books does sam ervin ever feel he found a line or a paragraph that justified equality for the black man. >> well, how about, i want to come back to that southern statesmen, strom thurmond. and how, between thurman and eastland, and ervin, they set the tone for the ring. because it seems they did the lion share, as she recounted, a

question at the justice. >> well, yes. they had seniority. they had been in the senate a long time, and they were known as the old bulls. james eastland in mississippi once stop the hearings to get got real quiet, and let it thurgood marshall and said, mr. marshall, do you like the white people of the south? yes, that was the question. it was like a hammer fell because that was a question for all those others wanted to ask thurgood marshall, because their minds and said you upended our way of life. all these -- >> right. >> thurgood marshall was considered public enemy number

one throughout the south. one man, white man, in his late '60s who i interviewed, he said, one of the amazing things is that when i was little in my community, parents would tell us if we're bad, thurgood marshall is going to come get you. [laughter] and this is a line -- [laughter] and this is a line in my book. he told me, he said, and i didn't even know what a thurgood marshall was. [laughter] >> these old bowls as they were referred didn't all come to the table with clean hands. debate? >> no. and that is speak a couple of them had a past.

>> are stealing my thunder. >> soy. that is a fascinating little sideline. james eastland's father, several months before eastland himself was born, met a black man. strom thurmond's father murdered a white man. so if you look at the book in terms of fathers and sons, which that is a subtext, thurgood marshall and his father, strom thurmond and his father, james eastland and his father, there's a lot of blood and tears and family history that courses through the book. so these were people who brought blood, family blood into the hearing room. and also there was a subtext of interracial sex.

the martial hearings happened in the year of the famous loving case, lobbying, they were a couple in the state of virginia. you all have heard about this couple. by the way there's a movie being filmed about that right now. anyway, the lovings were arrested in the state of virginia in 1967. just weeks before thurgood marshall's hearing started, for sleeping in the same bedroom. the state of virginia said we would drop the charges if you just leave, leave the state. so they did and they came to washington, d.c. to live. and strom thurmond have asked marshall about the loving case. the same strom thurmond who was sleeping with his black made,

fathering a child and paying her hush money cannot talk about it. -- black maid. >> and he was directing those comments at marshall for a discrete reason, wasn't he speak with yes, you are exactly right. thurgood marshall's second wife was filipino. that was strom thurmond way of making an attempt to hurt thurgood marshall during the hearings. >> those democrats, those southern democrats, particularly senator irving, made the argument that his opposition to justice marshall was not predicated on race, but rather what he saw as the justices pension, an advocate for activism. he labeled the martial as

someone who would be a judicial activist and the warren court was considered an activist court. how much of that do you think was fact and how much was fiction? >> well, it was fact because there was no option. you had to be an activist lawyer to take down plessy v. ferguson. there was just no option. >> marshall said the constitution was an organic living document. >> ride. >> so maybe don't have to be so much activist. maybe the constitution adapts to the time. the framers i think wrote it in such terms. there are those who disagree with that, but as a judge i sort of believe as marshall bullied it is an organic document, otherwise it wouldn't survive this long, wil. >> one of the senators asked marshall, how come you don't rely or doubt voluntary

confessions? and thurgood marshall said, well, i had a client once, black kid, he was beaten for six days and he finally voluntarily confessed. [laughter] >> now, there's a little known fact about the hearings were not going that well, at least for the first three or four days, even through day five. and as the hearings were dragging on, lbj plotted an alternate strategy. >> and applause they were not consecutive days. they were spread out over 12 days, which made thurgood marshall and the white house very nervous. but on the second day of hearings, president johnson was so nervous that he said to his aides, wow, my guy might not

make it. they are tough. i mean, goodness gracious. so johnson was hell-bent on integrating the supreme court to so he stealthily summon william coleman to the white house to william coleman was an african-american lawyer, had no thurgood marshall very well, had worked with him on the brown case. and william coleman did is being summoned to the white house, the white house, and woody guthrie johnson told him, hey look, my name might not make it and i need you on standby. because if he doesn't make it, then i'm coming after you. william coleman, he was taken aback speed and why did johnson think that colin could get past the old bulls while marshall could not speak what he was a republican and he was not known as a civil rights fighter in the vein of a thurgood marshall

student and coleman i think of in the first african-american ever to serve on the supreme court having clerked for justice frankfurter. >> right. you're exactly right, yes. >> but justice marshall was eventually confirmed, 69 to 11. there were 20 votes that are unaccounted for, wil. there are 20 votes unaccounted for. tell us about those 20 votes. >> which is an amazing. senators, they go to washington to vote for their constituents. that's their job your lyndon johnson started making some phone calls and phone calls went like this. hey, senator, my goodness, my goodness, my goodness. i see where there's a bridge scheduled to go up in your hometown next year.

some of my sources tell me that they may putting your name on that bridge. well, let me tell you like this. there might not be a bridge. there might not be no money for bridge. if you vote. so what you need to do when you come out of your house next tuesday, go down to the corner, go to a coffee shop, and sit in there all day long. [laughter] and 20 of them were so fearful of lyndon johnson that they did it. they didn't vote spent there were 20 abstentions. >> yes. i mean, that is astonishing. i mean, they are sworn to vote,

and johnson, he put the fear of god into them, and they did not vote. now, marcia, yes, he was confirmed much have to pay attention to the arcane rules of the senate. if the southerners and those who didn't like marshall, if they could stop the white house before they reached 60 votes, then they could filibuster the nomination to death. and some take-out only a handful of votes over those 60 votes. so it really was a close vote when you look at it that way. the white house had some concerns going against its congressman, adam clayton powell was on the run, had just been

thrown out of congress or ethics violations. people were linking adam clayton powell and thurgood marshall's name in the media, writing letters to the senate and to the president on the last date of the hearing. detroit erupts in a massive race riot. >> milwaukee. >> milwaukee erupted in a massive riot. these riots, of course, done because of decades of pain and the lack of opportunity. so many things happened aside from the very powerful southern men who did what marshall to make it. so many things happened that made thurgood marshall himself worried. he had sleepless nights.

>> eastland drew it out, the more that the rise rage, eastland drew it out because he kept, he and irving and thurman kept coming back to the mantra of soft on crime, miranda and as a result of you being soft on crime the inmates are running the institution in these cities. molotov cocktails are flying. your guy, adam clayton powell, coined the phrase lack power. stokely carmichael brain with the. they're trying to draw some synergies between all these, this -- >> right, right, right. >> do you think the white house, sensing this, up to its game, put the pressure on the other senators, including the democrats on the committee?

>> yes. the one thing the white house bid, they got word out to voters, if you love and thurgood marshall, write your senator. start writing letters. write letters to the white house. people started flooding, flooding the white house with wonderful letters. some of these letters were hateful but there were a good many of them that were very poignant. >> well, a justice served on the bench in 1967-1991. based on all that you gleaned from your very extensive research, do you think i've enjoyed his time on the bench as much as he enjoyed his time as an advocate? >> okay. well, i think that's a good question because i just been

motioned we have to wrap up for the book signing. i think that thurgood marshall knew how important it was to have a gifted, wonderfully talented lawyer on the supreme court who was black. now, what is he happy on the court or happier in his job with your style the around the country winning those cases? the court turned right shortly after he got on it, and so no, i don't think they were the happiest years of his life. he wrote a lot of dissents in which you can read those over that awful lot about thurgood marshall's legacy. he really was a giant. i'm sorry that so many people have said that he got lost in history.

and in that this book sort of brings him -- >> rehabilitates them. >> yeah, rehabilitates him. he needs no rehabilitation, but i'll take the compliment. [laughter] >> i have one more question. i think we'll have maybe a minute or two for questions from the audience. in fact, i know that since i am conducting this interview. so you have written a number of books now. you have written about adam clayton powell, sammy davis, jr., eugene allen, sugar ray robinson. how does this fit in to a pantheon great african-americans about whom you have written? where does a good fit? >> you know, -- where does thurgood get? >> you know, i think my books are about american and

african-american history. they are told through a lens, you know, and of these, all these people are rebels with causes, and their causes were freedom. and that's a good angle to shape your writing been around. it's a drama. these are great stories. marshall, of the group, marshall was the supreme figure, there's no doubt about it. but you could see eye to eye with adam clayton powell, sugar ray robinson, mr. allen, the

butler and powell. i think it's best summed up like this. on the day marshall was nominated, he was in the white house and they were three african-american butlers serving tea and refreshments. one of those butlers was eugene allen. mr. allen lived and worked, lived sometimes, slept overnight a lot, at 1600 pennsylvania avenue, the most powerful address in the world. and '50s, much of the '60s, he could go back to his native virginia and couldn't try on his suit in a store.

now he is serving thurgood marshall. thurgood marshall had seen how the law could subjugate blacks. thurgood marshall, i know, look at those black butlers in the white house, and his mindset was, i'm going to keep using the law to elevate you. and that to me is why i love the majesty and mystery of history. [applause] >> with that, thank you very much. [applause] spent let's thank judge marbley

and wil haygood for a great conversation. we have time for a quick couple of questions from the audience. i know you want to take this opportunity to talk to mr. haygood, asking that question. we have microphones in the aisle ways for anyone who would like to ask a question of mr. haygood or of judge marbley. speak now. all right. yes, we have someone. no, on down -- come on down, ma'am. >> hamilton houston, before him there was what, hastings? william hastings. how do you think, because you heard about hastings kind of more radical than houston, and by the way, i want to say this giunta great-nephew of robert

carter. >> yes, great new york -- >> his sister just died last you can 99 years old. she was my great aunt. >> thank you for being here. >> anyway, i'm saying that because today i said to a couple of friends last week, you know, who would think it would be talking today whether talked about in the '60s when we were born for all the racism, a black voters, young black men and so forth and so on. and then also the radical race theory of, you know, modern day, dealing with the lawyers, you know, talk about obama -- >> can you state your question, please? >> yeah. how do you think they would bring it forward with hastings so-called been radical figure, the big change to bring hamilton houston and and these guys with naacp on up?

>> i think, you know, different lawyers have different strategies, different times of period, you know, in history. so maybe the naacp lawyers now, you know, don't have to try as many of the kinds of cases that thurgood marshall tried because there are more civil rights lawyers doing that kind of work. it's all still needed very badly, as we know of judge marbley himself as voted on some epic voting rights cases. i think each generation lines its own best lawyers. >> last question.

how would you think thurgood marshall would think about barack obama and also with clarence thomas? >> that's a loaded question. i think if thurgood marshall was here today, you know, he would be very happy about the first family in the white house. there is no doubt about that. some things would certainly paint him as well, but this is not the same country it was in 1967, and yet there are it feels -- to our ills we have to address, no doubt about it. >> how are you? >> hi. >> i would like to know, you have all the men in there. are you going to read any women into your historical biography?

[applause] [laughter] >> that was not the question i told you to ask. [laughter] i'm going to, there are multiple, there are multiple figures who i'm thinking about writing about next. but -- wait a minute now. let me sort of defend myself. my sugary robinson book, major figure in the book was lena

horne, because she was a dear friend of thurgood marshall. but that doesn't quite fully answer your question. [laughter] i know, but thank you for asking it. >> very well stated i would like to welcome a woman to the stage. susan bradford. [applause] >> wil, we want to make sure that all of you enjoyed your evening with wil haygood. [applause] thank you. and the wonderful judge marbley. [applause] >> thank you. again, as we close out this evening, we -- wil just wanted to let you know we will have a reception in the ballroom. oath of you who have your books

now have a past that's in there that will get your entry up to the reception. wil will also be there to sign, personalize your books. i also want to make note that tonight's event will be shown on c-span on sunday, october 4 at 6 a.m. 6 a.m. so, you know, schedule your dvr's for that. >> sunrise service. >> sunrise service. and i will check speakable more about our conversations that will lead us up to our event coming up. and also if you want to purchase more books in the lobby you can do that at that time. [applause] >> thank you so much. the lincoln center strives to make this place a forum for public discussion.

on october 22 at 6 p.m. we will be holding a forum on figures of the voting rights act, a very timely forum that relates to what will they would pashtun wil haygood and judge marbley talk bout tonight. this event will feature doctor herb asher, or fester america's of political science at the ohio state university. eric seabrook, attorney and general counsel for former suggested blackwell, and members of black elected democrats to ohio. so this will be an excellent forum as all of our committee conversations or. they are free of charge. doors open at 6 p.m. on thursday october 22. join us as woul we make the linn theater your preferred place for community conversations. and now it's time to go upstairs and get your book signed.