>> i want to thank all of you for coming and just building on the final statement, we are strong believers this country needs a lot of acceleration in education. the way to get there is certainly not the common core, it is a great read. if you want to know the facts on common core, if you want to do deep into the facts, the legal arguments than this is the book arguments than this is the book for you. thank you for being here. [applause]. book tv is on twitter and facebook. we we want to hear from you. tweet us at twitter.com/book tv. or post a comment on be. or post a comment on her facebook page at facebook.com/book tv. >> vernacular and fred barnes are nest. they recently sat down on washington's journal to set down and discuss the life of jack kemp. >> the first step will be to

balance the budget with a strategy that combines economy and government and the type of tax cuts to liberate the american people. of course the naysayers in the clinton white house it cannot be done. the have to say that. they don't know bob dole and they don't know jack cap. [applause]. >> that was jack kemp from the gop convention, august 15, 15th, 1996. joining us on the set this morning fred barnes, welcome thank you for being here. the executive editor and thank you both. let's start with you first. why write the book. >> so i was was retained by the jack kemp family foundation to

do oral history of his life. over a few years of his life i interviewed 100 football players he wrote the book. he was the most important politician of the 20th century who was never elected resident, certainly the most influential republican. this is not original to us. i have heard it again and again. i looked at his record and it was true. previously, open space. i got fred and i wrote the book. host: why did you want to get involved? guest: well we go back a long way. we met each other covering the

herald if you remember back that far. went to fox together. we have in very close friends for a very long time. and i knew jack kemp very well. i wrote a lot of stories about him at first when i was at the " the baltimore sun" and then when i was at "the new republic." i always admired him. i basically agreed with him. his tax cuts really had a dramatic effect on the country. so when mort invited me i thought about it for maybe 25 seconds and decided to join him. then we had a great time doing it. i would say when i did this research i read a lot of journalism about jack kemp. even after we were already working i'd rediscovered that the best stories of what he was doing and why he was doing it,

what people said about >> we decided that reason he was doing it and i kept sending it to them. he completely forgot he wrote it. >> so i accept the complement. >> what is it about jack kemp's politics that you think people should know especially today and particularly on this day as republicans gathering close stores about who should be their next leader. >> there two things, one jack kemp and the great dynamic figure he was in favor of a big idea. the big idea was supply side economic and tax cuts across the board. 30% in this case was pushed in congress. that became the tax cut which never passed and then he delivered it to ronald reagan and he met and he was for tax

cuts. he was convinced they would work. that is what make kemp the star. then there is the other camp, the model for republican politician. someone who is positive and never attacked opponents. he always had big ideas and thought ideas were important. what you doing politics is have better ideas than the other guys. kemp did. >> i completely endorse everything and he has said. you have to remember what the 1970s were like. high unemployment, high inflation, a miserable state of mind in the population. in 1979 only 13% of the american people thought things were going in the right direction. we had hostages in iran, the soviet union had invaded afghanistan, the president

didn't know what to do, nixon didn't know what to do about high inflation. carter didn't know, jimmy carter blamed it on the exclusiveness of the american people. it was a miserable time. jack kemp came up with this formula and everybody thought is a classic economist answer was to spend lots more money. we were already spending lots more money. so camp was a borrowing and robert mondello won a nobel prize winner, borrowing from john f. kennedy, he lowered or he proposed lowering the tax rate from 927. that was enacted after his assassination. kemp went to his economic aid and said why don't we just copy the kennedy tax cut, and and that is what they did. the result of it was the top

rate went from 70, where it was in 1980, 250 and then down to 28 and we had the tax reform of 1986. we had 25 years of prosperity. part of it was our economic success, the soviets were looking at it and they couldn't match it. reagan did run up deficits for sure but the soviet union then collapsed. at the end of it, 69% of the american people thought that kutcher was going in the right direction. all over the world people thought democratic capitalism was the way to go. reagan was the actor here. he was using an instrument handed to him by jack kemp, kemp was was a cheerleader all along. >> was jack kemp considered an establishment today and what he appeal at all to the tea

parties, the conservative wing of the republicans? >> kemp was conservative on all three stools of the conservative chair. he was an economic conservative obviously, very free market oriented, low taxes. he was conservative on foreign policy issues, he did think reagan was tough enough with the soviets. on social issues he was pro-life but he added to that with the whole effort that we talk about and wrote about in the book, he was a a great believer in civil rights. he regretted that he was not old enough at the time to be part of the civil rights movement. he was pro- immigration, these are things whether they make an establishment but they make him different. he is a different kind of a republican. one that we agree on of what republican

should emulate now. he would be very popular now. certainly when he was pushing these tax cuts he was going around the establishment. not attacking them, not moaning and blocking everything, but he went around them and succeeded. >> he was in hot water for doing so. >> he was in hot water a lot. he was a senior republicans would be the establishment now, the chairman of the committee, leadership and all of that didn't like the fact that he was not a member of the house ways and means committee and here he was pushing tax legislation. bob dole didn't like it because he didn't agree with the economics of it. he thought, who is this upstart? who is trying to rewrite the tax code. he was an outsider in those days although he was a member of congress. later he became a leader and he blocked his own president.

on foreign policy and when reagan tried to raise taxes which he did a number of times, he kept against him and got incredible heat for it from the white house staff. but, later on when he was considering running for president in 1996, fred wrote a piece called the poverty thing, he had been the hud secretary and he had been in favor of a conservative war on poverty. he talked about race a lot, he talked about immigration a lot, he enraged the anti-immigration forces in the republican party. >> i want you to comment on what is happening in the relevant discussion, what is is happening behind us this morning. republicans, house caucus 30 or 40 member strong saint they are going to nominate daniel

webster, an outsider to the republican outsider. they want to see an alternative to what exists with kevin mccarthy. they are saying they are hold out until they see some concession from this republican leadership. what you make of them demanding concessions of how it operates on capitol hill? >> i have a stake in this fight. my son happens to work for kevin mccarthy. i want to say that up front. look, this group particularly the hard-core conservative group in the house, about 35 or 40 members is really feeling strong now after being a part of pushing john boehner out. he resigned, that was now the only reason but a big reason was his inability to pull together the entire republican conference and make it united. so, at the end of the day my guess is, and i have said what my biases, i think think kevin mccarthy will probably win.

it may not be easy and the important thing is what you raise, they may have to be concessions made which would weaken the next speaker and diffuse authority over committee assignments and things like that. among the rank-and-file in the house. >> i am not exactly sure what their exact demands are. >> they want more power. >> so -- while the process of legislation is always bargains and people use the power they have two manipulates things to their satisfaction. this is not necessarily new and it is done out in the open right now, that is the way things are dead these days. it looks messy, it is messy. i was a the question is, what is the policy consequence of what they are for?

i don't see how the house republicans can go further right and expect the image of their party to be one that a majority of americans will accept. they seem to be, they certainly are anti-immigration. they have told the hispanics we hate you, that's the message that is coming through. hispanics have no use for the republican brand, most of them. kids, young voters are being turned off by what they are for. if they go even further right than that, i think they spoil the brand. >> he lives out one thing. there are two republican parties, the republican party at the state level, the congressional party and the presidential party.

and it depends on who you look at there. you look at donald trump you see one thing, you look at jeb bush, marco rubio, john casing, chris christie and a number of these candidates were pro- immigration, pro- tax cuts, i would say they are exactly copies of jack kemp but they certainly approach that is a limit. so they are quite different from a part of the republican party which is anti-immigrant. >> who emulates jacket in the house or in the senate, and who represents him on the presidential trail? >> i think jeb bush the most. certainly john casing does for some extent, marco rubio to some extent, marco rubio to some extent, chris christie may be less so. we see the tax cuts come from other people, but more coming out. >> certainly there's paul ryan, he's he's not running for president or speaker either, although at the end of the day some people think he may it end up being that.

he doesn't want it, he wants to be chairman of the house ways and means committee. there are a number of camp like people. you see some of the state level i was well, particularly you have to distinguish between the congressional party and the presidential party. >> nothing leaps out at me at the senate. there are are people in the senate who are constructive. who are trying to get stuff done. alexander for example, chairman of the health committee is working on a bipartisan basis with patty murray, they have already passed a no child left behind rewrite in the committee which will be helpful. they're going to try to do a higher education reform and then they will move on to consider a bill that has already passed the house by quite a large margin, fred upton's 21st century cures bill which would increase the amount of money spent on medical research.

that is the committee that is functioning well. i think bob coker is not an exciting guy, he is chairman of the foreign races committee he does not have the energy, obvious energy that jack kemp has but he is a constructive for. >> authors turning us this morning with jack kemp. more contract he, also known as the beltway voice. we'll go to david in indianapolis. >> caller: good morning gentlemen. host: david we are losing you. david you have to talk more into the phone. >> caller: is there more of a aggressive view with reagan,

they were at odds with each other. host: david i'm going to jump in. i think we have your point. >> i think he says ronald reagan and kemp were at odds with one another. on social issues kemp was pro-life, he did make a big deal out of it but he was definitely pro-life and so was reagan, who didn't make a big deal out of it. on immigration reagan signed the 1986 immigration bill, immigration bill, cap was in favor of immigration. where they differ was on economic policy. also form policy. kemp was always the supporter of reagan, some people wanted kemp to run against reagan in 1980, it 80, it was even a crazy idea

that he would run and then transfer all of his delegates to reagan in hopes to be vice president. kemp did not go for that. when reagan adopted kemp and ross kemp never said anything bad about reagan. he blamed stockman, stockman, baker, all those people for trying to undercut the tax cut policy that reagan put forward in 1981. he thought reagan would be waylaid by jordan scholz as secretary of state which i think is completely wrong. ragan's diary show that what scholz was doing was exactly what reagan wanted. so camp was with him on that and i think he was wrong. fundamentally, he always said great things about reagan.

>> he i said great things but i think the color has a good point. the notion that reagan and were just pals all of the time and got along perfectly, agreed on anything, which may be a popular opinion about jack kemp which really was not true. kemp pushed to go further, he pushed against lower tax increases, reagan never veered away from the rate cuts in the original tax cut of 1981 but at one point, you remember the smart went camp more than, demanded that reagan fired george scholz as secretary of state. reagan had no intention of doing that. in reagan's diaries he showed how close he was to george scholz and he did represent his views. there were times when reagan thought jack kemp was a past. >> and the white house staff dumped into the press day, after day, after, after day all these negative stories about how he

was putting his ambition ahead of the presidents, who does he think he is, does he think he is the leader of the country. this went on for days and days. it was very messy. >> will hear from sue. >> caller: high, how are you. i'm in maryland, i remember jack come, i went to to a few fundraisers. i tell you he would not played today because he was then and he is now one of the biggest rhinos out there. when you talk about immigration, would you please clarify that the folks that are against immigration it is illegal immigration. it is. it is not just immigration. i get very sick and tired of hearing outdated folks,

political pundits who are out of touch, all of the young people i know are very much against illegal immigration. they are against losing our sovereignty. when you talk about ronald reagan signing the immigration bill he also said it was the biggest mistake of his career. he wished he had never signed it. host: okay sue thank you. >> what reagan said was the biggest mistake of his career was a bill when he was governor of california that liberalize the abortion laws in california. they insisted it would not affect many people in many abortions but of course it was a lot. the truth is, there are number of presidential candidates who are not only against illegal immigration, as most people are, but want, but want to reduce the amount of legal immigration. i think carly p arenas there, donald donald trump, scott walker was, and others are. it started out that they were against illegal immigration but many have said let's stop or let's curb the amount of immigrants who come into the country illegally.

>> everybody is against illegal immigration. everybody wants to control the border. kemp did want to control the border, the question is, the question is, okay you have 12 million people in the united states most of them very hard working, they tend to golf courses work in the cannery, they're taking jobs. if ordinary citizens wanted to take those jobs there's a line, they could have done it. they can do the construction work if they want to. they don't want to do it. somebody has to do it, what are you going to do with them? you are not going to deport 12 million people. can you imagine what the scene would be like ripping families apart? people weeping at the border, it's already going on. obama has done a lot of it himself. if the republicans were doing it

there would be terrible especially in the media. >> talk about outgoing speaker john boehner, go big or go home. what if you put immigration on the floor of the next three weeks. >> it would be a convulsion in the republican conference because they are divided. i don't think it would pass. >> democrats when supported? >> there are just too many pitfalls. >> what i would love to see him do is put a small bill on the floor, a bill that had a dream act in it, legalize these kids who grew up in the united states and do something about agriculture workers on a temporary basis. increase, with reformed the number of high skill h1 b visas,

you don't have to pass comprehensive immigration reform because it won't pass but you could do something. i would love to see it try. >> that's a good idea. some big immigration bill pushed her at the last minute, look you want to wind up with an immigration bill that most of the country can support, that it doesn't create more argument and discord in the country. you can't do it by rushing something through at the end of october. host: the book, jack kemp at the bleeding heart conservative who changed america, authors mort and, the debates then and now on capitol hill. glenn you are next. >> caller: good morning. what about all this talk about illegal immigration and legal immigration. we have all these people who say we can't support, we have to deport them because look at the elect oriole college. our votes don't even count

anymore because of all of the illegal aliens here. they are taking jobs that american citizens want. they are taking our people out of our college, kids -- it's a mess. our country is going downhill and will never get anything back. we have to deport them or we have no country anymore. >> sir, with all due respect illegal immigrants do not vote so they have nothing to do with the electoral college, right. secondly, those jobs, i want to see ordinary americans standing in the lines for construction jobs where they get picked up for day labor. i never see any to the extent that i go by some of these places. our country is in very bad shape, but it is not the illegal

immigrants that have made it in bad shapes, it is the politicians up on the hill who can agree on nothing. we have terrible infrastructure, terrible education education system, the teacher unions are ruining the country, it's us. it's us, nativeborn americans who are messing the country up it is not the illegal aliens. host: i'm going to go to arlington heights and illinois. >> caller: good morning. mort and fred a few questions, first i i miss you guys on the mclaughlin group. those were the days. two comments. first off, would you address the role of the federal reserve in the late 70s, having grown up in the 60 and 70's i know the fed rates were superhigh at that time. so if you would, of the role of fed and how that over time helped the economy by lowering interest rates. number two, should we finally

ended the days of career politicians with term limits. take care. >> martin and i will disagree term limits, i like them. you have these tax cuts but you also have a tighten on the money supply. it was jimmy carter who had high unemployment and paul rocher was brought in for one reason and that was to push down inflation. he started off very strongly under carter and then reagan came in and reagan supported him as well. we had higher unemployment in the recession in 2009 and reagan backed it. that didn't jump all over paul rocher as the chairman, inflation was crushed. he was a very important part of what went on, along with the tax

cuts that had incentives and growth but really cracking down on the money supply. >> camp thought that rocher was pressing too hard on the critics. he was constantly fighting, as a matter fact he wanted him not to be appointed. he thought that rocher was inflation and growth obsessed. every time and he was wrong in some cases, every time the growth would begin to pick up he was afraid rocher would crush down or raise interest rates again and spoil recovery. he also thought what passed was not pure, it was it was delay, it was deleted, the whole idea was the tax cuts would be an accelerator wall paul was

pushing on the break. somehow the accelerator never got down far enough which is what caused a huge 19831983 recession. unemployment rose to almost 11% in one month. >> to answer the second part of the question, i am against term limits because we have term limits. every every two years, if you don't like the guy you got for the woman you have you can throw them out right. it's in the constitution. all you are going to get as a result of term limits is novices on capitol hill, career lobbyists, career staff aides, career bureaucrats, they're going to run around by their noses. i would rather have experience people even if they are incompetent and sometimes they are. even if they can't agree it's better than having to b's. >> the person who is going to be the next speaker, kevin speaker, kevin mccarthy has some of the least experience in history a bean speaker. then you you have

james art who is tweeting in and says a speaker of the house with a major speaking problem? the world is a joke. >> like he made a gap when he's being interviewed on fox a few weeks ago when he said about the benghazi committee. i think it was factually on true because the benghazi committee, whatever the intentions were were very straight, very honest and it has uncovered thinks about hillary clinton and her whole email system system which we would not have known otherwise. that's why democrats want to shut it down. term limits have been tested at the state level in many states, what you say has not happen there, state legislators have continued to function effectively even though many of the people, either the house or senate in the states have to leave. it turns turns out of course, there are many opposites to these perennial office seekers that can go. there are

many other things they can run for. so they can get elected to the house and that runs out than they can go to the septic senate, then he can run for governor and so on. i think they work quite well at the state level and would work at the federal level. >> will go to ohio. >> caller: good morning everyone. i wanted to take issue with the surprise economics because it not only cause debt it caused three or four other names also. it was called trickled down, was called a trojan horse, it was called voodoo economics by bush senior. now, i think that you are on the receiving end of those tax cuts you're doing good but at the same time the republicans have

been picking and choosing the winners and losers ever since they been in power. they do this every time. as far as the other side economics or the trickle-down theory, it was never proven. every time they give the 1% and corporation tax cut money it disappears. they don't create jobs or they didn't create jobs here in america. host: alright thank you loretta. >> look at what happened in the 1980s. supplied economics emphatically work. by the the way, it was trickle-down to an extent in terms of actual dollars which people do get more than middle-class people but they already have more than middle-class people. they did invest the money and

nobody now is in favor of a top rate of 70% that i i know. maybe bernie sanders is. so it instilled itself even among the democrats who agreed the tax cuts in those days were too high. i agree with you, but it is not part of supply-side economics, it is contrary to that. supply-side economics is across-the-board tax cuts for everybody including poorer people. what camp was against was drilling holes in the tax structure, special benefits for oil companies and whatever interest group can hire lobbyists to create special breaks in the tax code. he was in favor of a tax reform which passed in 1986 to lower the rate for everybody but eliminate lots of loopholes. >> john is a republican from new

york. >> caller: i'm saddened to hear, that i have her but not surprised. the, it it made was republican parties against immigration. i think that is flat-out false. it's not immigration the republicans and conservatives like myself are concerned with, it is illegal immigration. we in this country it's not too much to ask for to know who's in your country and know where they're at, even 4040% of non-hispanics-there still hanging out here. so to say that is a terrible, for the commentators to agree to. host: we will clarify here.

>> fred said, i don't know if you heard him that a number of the presidential candidates are now in favor of limiting legal immigration, right. that's part of why the republican party is getting this bad rap. secondly, you have the leading presidential candidate at the moment, donald trump, by the way which i regard as the antithesis of what jack cap stood for except for high energy. you have him saying he is going to deport these people. can you imagine what type of scene this would present to the world. actually just think of donald trump as the face of america for the rest of the world. that he is going to rip 12 million people out of their homes and send them packing? what kind of scene that would be? it would look like syria, right.

you might as well put a shroud over the statue of liberty. >> i am not for deportation, but syria? i don't like is quite syria. some republicans as more pointed out and i read pointed out earlier is for reducing illegal immigration. i'm not for that. and certainly more it isn't. we do need to, in addition to stopping illegal immigration, we do do need to reform the legal immigration system. the legal immigration system creates incentives for people to, illegally and here's why, it is dominated by what is known as the family reunification system. if you have some relative in the us, you go to the front of the line to get into the united states. that dominates, two thirds come in, come in under the family unification system. if you are young mexican who

wants to come to the united states because you see it as a land of opportunity and you can on your own decide the destiny of your life. you're not going to the end of the line and wait 25 years or something to be legally admitted to the united states. you're going to come in illegally. we need to straighten out the legal immigration system. certainly all republicans by any means are not anti-emigration, most of them are not but there is a significant group, even among the presidential candidates who want to curb legal immigration. host: immigration aside what is going on with capitol hill. what advice would you give with jack cap in the model to republicans and their fall agenda and what they're going to do in the coming weeks leading up to the 2016 election. >> i would do stuff. i would pass the long promised

replacement for obama care. they're talking about repealing and replacing obama care. they've talked about it hundred times. it has not been repealed have not shown what their form. they're not passed a tax reform bill. they could process in the senate and pass a significant increase in medical research which would help a lot of people in the country. they could build infrastructure. i don't know whether that would pass a highway bill or not, i don't believe so. short-term one. they capasso budget, they could actually keep the government going under terms that they set. they could force obama to veto some of these things but at least they would show it there were four. and they would show the country that they are for things and stead of being against obama. host: when you talk about the chairman represents jack kemp in

the house, working across the aisles wish rumor. >> i don't think think that will go anywhere but republicans have said, look they want to do immigration for instance in stages. well, let see stage one. they don't have to wait. the thing about obama care is ridiculous. why go to this huge invert on obama care that will be filibustered in the senate, if not there it will be vetoed by the president. everybody knows what the plan will be in it will be outlined by the presidential candidate it is a free market in healthcare system which is much different than obama care. there are many different versions of it but they are all very close. host: will hear from brandon next. >> caller: i just want to say one thing, i can't can't pronounce his last name his

first name is mort. >> we all have trouble with it. >> caller: i just want to say i have two sons, 120, 131, both were construction and they have been working since they were 19 years old. you do have americans who will do these jobs. i hate when i hear them say on tv that americans won't do these job because that is false. i have done those jobs and my kids they have been hard working men since they have been of age. i just want to correct that. >> look, there are americans who do those jobs. i haven't seen any americans raking sand traps and golf courses, or very many in big cities anyway cleaning hotel

rooms. including entrance hotel rooms i might say. so, i didn't mean to insult your family or your kids, i'm sure they are hard working but they are working, right. i don't see mexicans have taken their jobs. host: will go to california. >> caller: yes, i agree with the previous callers. i need you guys to stop doing it with all the talk. there are not 12 million illegals taking and doing jobs that other people want to do. they would need 12 million farms out there for that. if you go into any social security office, any parts store , any insurance office, they are not blacks, they are they are not whites in there, they are hispanics. the majority of the people that

it be in her because they speak a dual language. there's no such thing as 12 million doing farm work or doing service work. work in hotels, there's not a enough room for 12 million of them to do those jobs. they are moving into other areas and on like the lady who just called, my grandson, because of it nepotism is being pushed out of jobs by hispanics because they have friends and everybody else. it is not fair for you to continue to say that the d's, eyes, ours, saying they're saying they're doing a job americans don't do. >> next time you see someone working an insurance office asked them if they are an american citizen, but they are. >> okay we'll talk more about the book, let's talk about who jack kemp was, nfl quarterback,

how did that shape is governing style? him as a politician. >> he was a leader. quarterbacks lead, they were a member of the football team that showed everybody else the way to victory. that is what cap talked about, that is my lip. he didn't have just a tax cut that he talked about and finally sold to ronald reagan, the tight of tax cut that reagan did. jack jack kemp put together a movement. some of these young read publicans that came and look at newt gingrich, he was elected in 1978 and became an acolyte of jack kemp. weber was another one, connie mack from florida, dan lundgren from california, they became followers of jack. it wasn't just it wasn't just young members of congress either it was the wall street journal

endorses tax-cut ideas. economists fashioned it, is a movement that jack created that he was a quarterback. host: how do you go from a quarterback to an intellectual? guest: he was a mediocre student how they can remember all those plays i do not know. anyway, he was a mediocre student in college, he was a phys ed major, he was football obsessed but when he started working, when he started traveling with his steep he started reading. he read the wall street journal, the u.s. news, while his his teammates were reading playboy in sports illustrated. then he got into deeper and deeper, he went to a seminar in economics.

it wasn't that he didn't have an intellectual background, his mother was actually highly educated had a masters degree in social work in california and constantly encourage the kids to talk. took them to concert some ballets and things like that. in his youth he was not interested. then he he got more and more interested and ultimately he read everything there was to read about economics. by the time he was done he was as expert as anybody in monetary policy, fiscal policy, form policy, defense policy, but he was self-taught. >> how did he become a bleeding heart? >> he came from a republican background and his parents were all republicans. there were northern republicans there from california. i think a lot of it had to do with his football career. he played with many african-americans and he founds

when he was in the american football league that they were discriminated against. when they would travel, the black panthers would be put in a college dormitory to stay in the white players would be in some nice hotel. before kemp complained, the white players would have white room it's in the black would have black roommates and complained about it. and it and it changed on the teams he was on. i think he learned a lot there and as he said he came to regret that he was not old enough at the time to be part of the civil rights movement. host: i'm trying to push the inclusion of african-americans into it. i want to sure our viewers and how you respond to it. this is jack kemp and an oral history he's talking about a campaign event he did at a black own business when he was bob dole's running mate.

>> i remember one time i gave a speech, my wife and i came into a restaurant in harlem, there are some griping in the campaign, wise kemp coming for docs when there are no ducks. long story short there will be no ducts for our party when you go someplace you not expected to campaign. the young owner of the restaurant was a black republican and had a rally at this restaurant. charlie rangel came, charlie was charlie was an old friend from my house days and said what are you doing at the camp campaign. he said jack meyer friends. we had a nice reception, i get on the plane and a boston globe writer says could you give the speech you gave at the soul food restaurant in harlem to a suburban kansas city audience? kansas city wants the same thing as a verb as anybody else.

jobs, good education, chanced on your own home, these things are universal. it's not the. it's not the american dream, is the universal dream. so jack kemp wanted the republican party to become the party of abraham lincoln which was its founding. this famously set up him that he had showered with more african-american football player the most republicans had ever met. he believed in outrage, he said america's family should include everybody and that was a good example of the spirit of the guy. >> i agree. jack was basically a normal republican. his seat in congress over 18 years was from buffalo new york. northern republicans were the people who voted almost unanimously numbers of the civil rights act and while democrats and many of them were against it and having filibusters and so

on. so he really represented that background and it was quite natural for him to become a civil-rights enthusiast favoring immigration and so on, those really did become part of his medical life. host: he didn't listen though when the parties repeatedly tell him what are you doing. you write about in chapter 6, he goes out to mississippi and a fundraiser fundraiser and trent says don't talk about that. he talks about it the entire time. host: at the party of lincoln. that's who kemp was. >> unfortunately all of those southern democrats who do the filibusters, those people have been replaced by republicans who are the people driving john boehner out of office. spee1 but they they were not defenders of segregation. host: they would be, how do you know? how do you know it's in their heart. >> southern republicans may not agree with jack kemp's views on

race but they're nothing like the racist southern democrats who block civil rights legislation for decades. >> they are now taking it out on mexicans. host: a little taste of the beltway therefore audience. >> caller: hello. i'm calling as a former republican and i was a jack kemp republican. i grew up in southern california. i was in college in the 1980s, i believed in supply-side economics. it was a new thing then, it was antiestablishment as a republican. i believe that if we gave tax cuts to wealthy people he would trickle down to the poor i didn't win and enhance our economy and bring jobs and all the wonderful things that we believed back in the 80s. however, it didn't work. the trickle-down economics did not work, he never did trickle down. i went to be in the a fiscal

conservative to be what i consider fiscal responsible. i realize there are a lot of people who do need a little extra help. my question is, at what point how far down does the economy have to go? how unequal do incomes have to become before supply-side economics people will admit that it didn't work? >> it did work at the time. if you remember the difference between yourself in the late 1970s and the economic condition you're in and the economic condition even into, up to 2000. bill clinton did not substantially change what camp was all about. he rates the top rate from 28% to 33%. that is all he did. basically he cut capital gains

taxes and it did work. the the problem is, one the tax code has been drilled through special-interest holes and jack kemp believed what you believe. people at the bottom, basically start out saying a rising tide lifts all boats. tax cuts that were put through were across the board and they affected everybody and they work. now he came to believe who is the head of the urban league commits and some boats are stuck up the bottom and need help being lifted and so he was in favor of enterprise zones which was a means of limiting the capital gain taxes and property areas. he was in favor of giving people housing voucher so they could go out and rent their own houses. he was also in favor of education choice. this is a hobbyhorse of mine,

but i think teacher unions of this country are one of the most detrimental organizations there are four poor people. in order for poor people to rise they have to have a decent education, charter schools and the district of columbia and california, new orleans have proved that you can teach poor kids and they can go to college. the teachers union union resist every time of reform. host: i want to go back to supply-side economics. how do you explain the apparent failure of the bush tax cut to stimulate prosperity? >> the bush tax cut. the early 2000. while they stalled off a recession. it was was a mild recession when bush came in.

they did maintain prosperity but not at the level of the reagan tax cuts. in the 1980s when we had years were 6% growth and things like that, compare the bush years except maybe the last year when the economy got in so much trouble with the obama years in the bush years look pretty good. the obama years, the first time may be ever but certainly many decades when we haven't had a single year of 3% growth. just 2% growth with people dropping out of the economy, so many part-time jobs and so on. it is not working very well. >> i want to say one thing about camp, it was a simple thing when he made the right choice. you had to choose between spurring economic growth and trying to curb the deficit, he always went with growth. >> he was never much a balancer,

right. what happened as the fed has done everything it possibly can to keep the economy afloat. congress has been austerity minded, what we do, we put in budget everything. everything caps on everything. everything across the broward, stupidly. including defense. what this country needs is public investment. i'm departing from the kemp playbook because it wasn't the issue as it was then, but i think fred agrees with it this country needs infrastructure. we are like 17th in the world and the quality of our infrastructure and that is an investment that could create jobs. congress just won't do it. host: what you think jack kemp would say about wages in this country, the wage gap, the lack of growth there and how would he address it? >> he would say that it is not the difference that counts, what it is that everybody should

rise. he didn't mind rich people getting richer, although i would say say he would be against carried interest, the ability of very rich people who are stock traders and hedge fund managers to pay 15%. i think he would be against that that the special-interest tax break. he would be trying to raise the bottom and not bring down the top. host: i'm going to go to regina and pennsylvania. >> caller: hi, getting back to the day workers, day workers don't pay medicare, they don't pay social security but it works in the regular native american. they work and have to pay into these on controlled, unhealthy tax base and highly subsidized by lawful taxpayers. obama care, when these illegals go to the hospital their costs

are taking care of that's wire hospitals are broke. we the people take care of him, the natives. there's no comparison between the people who go in illegally take the job compared to the people who have to pay into that base. there's a lot of people who would like to be pay cash. that is what these people get. many contractors have lost to the illegals, they come in with their illegal social security card which isn't gone after an they lose their whole business because his contractor taught them how to do everything and then they take their business. host: okay regina i will leave it there. this is a debate that sparks phone calls. the line lights up. given what you have heard today, why is this so conditioned. >> kemp said when you have a stagnant economy what politics consists of his pity one group against another, fighting over a

shrinking pie. that is is what you're seeing now. you're seeing wages falling. as a result people are looking for someone to blame for their own condition. lots of people have fashioned onto illegal immigrants, that's not the cause of it all. the cause of it all as our economy is not growing. there's not opportunity. what we have to do is create an opportunity society. you you can do it one or two ways, you can do a bernie sanders way by having the government spending and taxing and that simply doesn't work. look at europe, the unemployment rates in europe are skyhigh. they have great social benefits but they don't have jobs. we need need to create jobs. >> .. s are mad. they see illegal immigrants, who do get a lot of benefits in the united states when they come here. if they show up at a hospital,

the hospital can't throw them out. the hospitals have to take anybody who comes with an ailment. and who pays for that? ultimately, in many cases, the taxpayers pay for that. and there are many other benefits they can get that make people furious when they are taxpayers themselves. that is why we need immigration reform. to make people with clean records legally in the system. you don't have to give them a special path to citizenship, but allow them to be working legally in the country when they pay taxes and don't just reap the benefits without paying anything. host: in arizona, an independent caller. caller: hello, how are you? host: doing fine. caller: i have a question about the electoral college and how the one person, one vote works. if it didn't work back in 2000. and here, look what we have.

i am not promoting al gore. i didn't vote for al gore and i don't dislike or like him. i don't know anything about him. but what would happen if al gore had been put in office and not george bush due to the popular vote? what is the difference? what is wrong with the electoral college? guest: i don't think anything is wrong with the electoral college myself, but it goes back in the constitution. goes back to the bargain which was made between the small states and the big states back, you know, in the late 1700s. what would al gore have done? that is hard to know. but i can tell you one thing, bush came in, he had a plan for tax cuts. not this weeping, deep tax cuts of ronald reagan, but tax cuts when he came in. they passed in some ways bipartisan and then they were rr