>> >> you have a lot of first-time voters letter very cynical and don't trust

and that seems to be the word that i am getting. and to focus on how we get the hispanic vote it is disingenuous but to be non-partisan with the atmosphere but back to mr. trump a and he is not a republican but it is somewhat concerning but there is actually a falling out there. like most rubio looking in the background who was there

and it is predominantly is the anglo-saxon protestant per everyone's right you will see an asian-american or hispanic or african-american but this is the concern in texas. everybody talks about the hispanic population with the asian constituency as well so with the first-time voters than to the growth of the hispanic population is somewhat meaningless. if we cannot generate and excite and engage people it doesn't matter how fast in the particular segment is growing if we don't exercise the right to vote but the message that came across the

college campuses was trust they don't trust elected officials. there is a reason for that and it is ironic if you pull congress as the body the numbers are very, very low the unfavorable are high but if you go to any particular district and you pull that particular congressperson the numbers are much higher. so i have people i am trying to convince to go out to vote it would not be the lesser of two evils but to cast a blank ballot get the number registered because all votes do matter regardless of where we are but as far as reaching out to the hispanic population of asian-americans and african-americans is determined on everybody here. >> the only member on this

panel that has the ability to do something about the fact one way to do that is to change though lot. to hear the comments i work very hard with of mind voter registration it got a very late hearing despite having support on the floor. 76 co-authors with a very late hearing and it turned into a partisan attack to suggest if you pass the bill my colleagues would be in danger. my suggestion is texas is already in grave danger because 34 percent already only voted that should be cautious for concern can reduce same day registration? the other dynamics those are the mechanical things within our control.

but i will do it time and again because we have to do better a.m. 34 stinking% her. >> i strongly disagree. >> there is a tendency to forget how we got here. they had to be white and you had to be male. but people think it is okay. if you have so low turnout election in which the

legislature in the middle of the night with the transportation bill. i have registered more republicans in the history of attacks. [laughter] >> with this knee-jerk reaction of the new system of automatic registration. to say i'm against it i hope you take ted deep breath. the hispanic vote is 1960. to increase the minimum wage

we haven't changed with that new dynamic. everybody is spending all this money with the limited resources to try to register people to vote. when you are broke we should look at california and the same day registration technology eliminates the issues related to fraud but to operate with the same mentality as our founding fathers. >> if i could add on the one hand yes we make it easier and i love the use of technology i think we should

register the same day also we should make it attractive but one thing that i don't agree is we put all the blame on the voters. since we don't vote out to expect to change our nation? we decided let's go for candidates hispanics and invite them to run for office yes republicans but hispanics run for office in individuals like. >> host: to represent us to go to the middle and represent the community -- community is defied the good candidates people will come out to vote owned we need more good people running for office and not just a home

and we need to cultivate hispanics better flirting with running for office and then you get the numbers it is not that interesting they don't offer anything so to have more responsibility pledges like israel a reader who set up her campaign to touch every single person to make it clear she was interested in their life but it isn't just going to be by not running for office. you get george w. bush in the state of texas in info for him as a republican and we as hispanics do tend to

do a much more for the person but it is much more than the party. >> i fall prey to that sometimes because you get so frustrated as a candidate but what is so rewarding as a latino as i knock on doors but to connect with someone with there is african-american voter or whether latino you make a connection then they know this is just a woman at my door to say she wants my vote that will weigh much more heavily than any of the polls showing that they are neither left or right for

anybody that overlooks the ms. at our peril. >> i used to be a democrat now a republican iran three times as a democrat three times as a county judge as a republican. i thank you are right with the sos office to generate that interest and when we have a county like karen overwhelmingly democrat 65 or 75%, and i was able to win three times against some strong democrats, where the straight ticket vote with cameron is two 1/2 times so on election day i.m. down 10,000 votes but it is important to recognize it is about the candidate there is

a lot of good people who have great ideas some have not so great ideas either party is a monopoly on good government toward brady is. that is the message certainly when i did my door to door standing on the street corner by myself that in order for any candidate to get that vote they have to connect with the voter because everybody votes based on a personal impact or issue what is important to them personally if you can get that message to resonate my goal is not to get out the vote that is in my role but it is to the individual party or the nonprofits to provide information and educate voters the best we can now

today is not like the '60s you did not have twitter and facebook the and instagram or even sell phones so it is important all of us stay in our swimmingly in. we want to get the vote out african-american pro, a hispanic, everybody but you have to connect. >> we have such low prices a patient first it was a wide in new mexico and california why are our level so much lower? have we done things in texas we're already at the bottom

have redone what makes it more difficult. >> if people want to vote for get online i know a lot of folks that have more than two weeks to vote. would that increase voter participation and? we already have two weeks plus election day and when that was implemented then today about 50 percent of all votes that were cast were done during the early votes but at least in camera and i have not seen the numbers go up significantly they are about the same. you're voting at it will stay the same there is a gap

there isn't i equated that if your parents were religious about going to church every saturday or sunday it is likely will go to church if they did not there is a strong likelihood he will launch if you don't grow up in that environment as a youngster coming up if i see my mom and dad voting every single election it gives me the impetus to develop that voting ethic but if i never saw my parents they never talked about that i will grow up that way. is not important so in our office we're trying to reach out to those first and second time voters to go to college campuses. one vote at a time speaking to them why anybody wants to

get anything done recycling recycling, would never they take it home to their parents this is what i want to do with voting but when you have the rhetoric with the impact of the mexican relations with texas with the economy, it is the same thing so part of the message to go out and ask them the hard question why is it you are not voting? it is just cynicism and they don't care. >> a think what governor patrick was suggesting that

we have a situation that if they vote ended they don't it is in the impediments you were referring to. >> but because we don't have candidates we have eliminated their race delegation is the real point he is making. we are already resisting impediments that doesn't drive though lack of voter participation.

that the districts are drawn now so we end up big in texas that is a solid red state so we know the primary mode will not be relevant and if you are a republican you were all relatively the same so why get out to vote because of those elected candidates and that alienates folks. now with your argument it is

one of the strongest in the country and most republicans would agree we have to bring people to the polls. that there has never been a lawsuit. and just from one polling station of things that went awry so we do have an issue with fried in texas so that the ballot is delivered in a way to have voter identification but to exercise the of franchise a building that is asking too

much but our laws needs to be addressed in these to be revised to expand ways. >> but there will be. >> we are running out of time. and want to give you time to respond. >> betting that opinion is well worth reading. if people honestly believe it was an issue then why wouldn't texas into automatic registration? >> why wouldn't we show online who voted? i go as far as other south american countries if you

honestly believe in a democracy they work better with a maximum number of people participate. and when jesse jackson rand. that is not the way i looked at it. and to encourage more people to participate. >> i want to talk about 2018 because we know latinos and minorities turnout in bigger numbers of a the presidential year. looking back at 2014 you won

a big portion of the latino vote but it is a low turnout election. >> it takes all hands on deck is connection to the voters to say i am with hillary she said i your hillary. she made that connection and people remember that the most of the trip between the ages of 18 and 29.

that segment is always a the hardest with that median indicator. it means reaching out to connect in a personal way at the hillary level so i put the burden on all of us to put the campaign sale of the hour resources together. what is the target universe? fifty andover? everybody else you are on your own. so perhaps we get to such a demographic we have to spend the resources then be topple as possible. >> it will take money and

such strong candidates with all due respect to donald trump. [laughter] i know that would happen now but from when my brother and i 99. [laughter] -- 9-9-9. >> and california in with the democratic state but the top two vote getters to help people to have to democrats

in my district. plus my response in federal court. if two people run every time but it is the significance of money. but the more sick to begin the money becomes. >> 2018 by then we must have passed comprehensive immigration reform. we can no longer be asking

hispanics to participate when on the one hand they are insulting to family members or insulting to pass the immigration reform. then not so both parties have failed. with the economies over education is very important issue. with good do immigrants. and really spend your capital and republicans get

your act together to pass it >> but we go back to the earlier point in those candidates that are very interested. everyone recognizes is to identify that there is someone were authenticated. >> with a fascinating story.

is articulate and smart and is very conservative and also a true blue latino. you put them at the top of the ticket. and you do galvanize the young hispanic vote. this person is interesting to me much like the african-american community they voted very strongly but when obamacare on the scene the numbers really expanded as an african-american and to identify and be proud of.

>> if they don't speak to issues that matter. it in my judgment then you don't get the vote. >> your idea what resonates may be different than my idea. i want to make sure we have a good economic ecosystem you might say we need health care. we disagree but that is the debate we would have but we don't have a voice to give a voice to that argument.

>> early on i'd like trump but at the end of the day they tend to vote the issues. is angry individual to not have that credibility and to give you more credibility. it is a nonstarter. >> with those issues that resonate. >> we agree. >> it is important to note we focusing too much on the messenger and not the message. it is somewhat unique and as

i prefaced earlier in our discussion with that particular voter you have to resonate you don't have to be hispanic or african-american to promote a good message with a voter. is it possible for the african-american to win in a hispanic neighborhood? i think it is. >> key and a hispanic women in the anglo environment? if there is a message, yes. it goes to hell you resonate the message the republican winning three times in cameron county 75 percent democrat. three times. the message resonated.

but fortunately or unfortunately the way the politics is, that always the authenticity of a candidate i just wished everybody runs based on principle, a message, what i am hearing from people is i want to be identified as who i am by what i go for because it is very fluid. du zaph back-and-forth on the ballot not every single person may or may not be good but you are deliberately choosing who you want to vote for. that because the candidate

actually resonated and connected with all walks of life. >> and they knew you and i assume you did not change much. >> but i didn't have a lot of money it is hard to raise money in that environment. candidates do what they have to do to win. i would stand on the street corner by myself with a sigh and. i got a lot of wine drinker hello. [laughter] but -- say one finger hello but i knocked on a lot of doors also but unfortunately money does generate because you cannot knock on 3 million households with statewide on social media it is basically free but look

at the hispanic community. how many of those of voting age have access to internet to or facebook? how many have that type of access? >> and in el paso is one. with our jobs responsibility program. i think it is close at half a million people i was walking last night. i was an austin i dunno about dallas but all the things we could do to make it easy are we all a little embarrassed?

i would like to stay in but i embarrassed. >> there is a lot of concern and yes it is embarrassing but i go back to my compliments to do the legislature to continue to do outreach to the constituency to make it easier to facilitate but if you have a second or third world countries voter participation is higher in the only vote one day. here we give them the opportunity to vote over two weeks but we just cannot seem to do that. i think at the end of the day we will agree deceptive the candidate to get the message out and appealed to the constituency it is unjust the messenger but the

message. >> with that we will open it up we are running out of time. >> we know of a hispanic school board member. in to be crushed to get the message out they have the initiative of caucasian i am wondering what does it take? isn't about the candidates

but they are getting christ. so are we willing to share the power? >> said to have a wonderful record in the community if they don't have the campaign resources or the budget but with the other social media types of advertising to run a robust aggressive campaign to reach beyond the income of 50 and over. that i work through this with my staff and it is hard when you only have so much money you go with the local voter. it will change over time but you have to have the

complete package package, experience, a good candidate -- candidate in the resources to say so i can get more turnout and it comes down to money in my experience. >> maybe this is what the elected officials have learned if you can handle it administratively it is a lot easier to get something done but we talk about getting the people out to vote is there a way to ensure there are two weekends in that period where everybody can come out to vote? is seems they politicize the election when one party sees there is early voting to bring in a lot of numbers for the other party they want to reduce the amount of time, or exposure to losing

votes. to the secretary of state could reinsure there is a weakened? last time there is only one saturday and i have to vote early with the direction but if you limit the days you impact the elections to read briefly i will talk if i remember my eight days of the county commission in day set the location and the time. there are some mandatory times but that is up to the local commission. but there is limited resources. it is the department's and county government with no romance it is like the eye teeth apart me don't know what you have been told nothing turns on.

to go to the local county to emphasize that with them. the lease bin cameron's is it at a catholic school that is where the majority of democrats are so even al that level it is very politicized. if you reach out to the local county commissioners you want to weekends or after 5:00 a lot of them are open an intel 7:00 the open at 9:00 and go through 7:00 p.m.. but all politics is local. it is what transcends and tuesday in federal politics if you want to vote for a state officials that is

running the election coupled with county commission races. >> if you were looking for a guaranteed to saturday's that is what the legislature could address. i would be in favor of that. i do think we cut one off the i think that makes perfect sense to me one less limitation. >> will you be sponsoring a bill? [laughter] >> the bill that lyndon johnson passed for the nation we added taxes and a lot of other places of the bilingual so we have come full circle the space skin makos -- states can make

those changes. to live long enough for the of legacy for the next election. those that were put in a certain position i hope the next congress can find to do what they have done historically. >> what format and language should the voter education material speed - - to be? >> english and spanish. >> if you go to the web site gives you the whole airline. >> that has not seemed to be

successful so what ideas would be more successful? >> i want to go back i think the fundamental responsibility of the order are reached and voter participation is up to the candidates that are running. our role was to provide the information that is prevalent of english and spanish is readily on line but how many have access and with that facebook page with twitter and instagram. >> if we look as structural

things to say we can do this with voter of my registration. they are young. 38% to between 80 and 29. i don't know any person in that age group that has a book of stamps in their purse. [laughter] so they will not print out a piece of paper to fill that out and mail it in so we go back to structure. if we can do the same day driver's license why can reduce same day voter registration? for the young mobile voter who moved here from harris county to south boston to see i did that change my voter registration this is the small sample barrier we can overcome to suggest that

we can read do a disservice to the american hero for those to give up their life for the right to vote. >> i teach young college students about texas government what i find fundamentally is the problem the you're not addressing is they don't trust the system they are alienated their angry it doesn't address their issues like income inequality and a lot of them believe their vote does not matter and money controls the entire political system

so how do you really address the issues of young people? if they feel alienated what about public financing of elections so they feel their vote batters -- matters? >> you are absolutely right. when i was speaking at one of the university's i asked the question but it is of trust with these young adults public financing is above my pay grade but the question that i posed to the student that you have to go

through the next 50 or 60 years simply because you don't trust? that is why i indicated cast a ballot you vote and got a number after a while to have enough blank ballots -- ballots i won by 59 everyone does count if there is 200 blank ones that means there's 200 people out there who took the time to vote but they were so disenfranchised they did not vote for anyone but it is up to that candidate to regain that trust. it is in so much of messenger but the message but the combination of the two.

>> we will take his question. >> i want to know i heard both educe speak how low turnout is to voter disinterest. according to the voting rights act. the way we draw the line only increases the minorities so of the general election because of this issue would you support the voting rights act to support that aspect because said is

the principal reason that is why we have a competitive elections. >> i thank you read that the wrong way. under the old system in a congressional district would 220,000 of 650,000 but in those days they have to fight with their democratic counterparts with the african-american a row.

and we have to argue respectfully that has nothing to do with race but with party. blacks and hispanics have of right you couldn't make changes without some independent entity. that is a tough thing to do to be appointed by the government is and in part the chief liaison and now it is both but if you are in that position and you represent big government as

a democrat or republican we should take the partisanship out of the electoral process. i think our responsibility ought to be more. we should think of a way to make it is easy for people to participate. you pay a dollar if you don't vote this is like a parking ticket even with the front runners texas was still at the bottom. >> just let readdress this that it my district we're 97 percent anglo. but yet i was able to win i don't think race should have the impact with that

bipartisanship you were referring to because we have a community that needs to be represented it shouldn't be scrapped because of the perception from one side or the heather. if you are a good candidate you could win as the african-american for a nickel and a hispanic district i would not be in favor. thank you. [applause]

>> you are interested in in succeeding paul reichmann -- paul ryan as chairman of the ways and means committee so how could be similar to former chairman brian or how would adp different reading that committee? >> we need a pro-growth

conservative that will advance his agenda he has a bold vision he has begun that work to fix the broken tax code to take the first deaths to have social security for the long term to zero big new trade we have a lot of work to do there but i have the experience led to of the key committees with major results with solving of baby pay doctors' medicare with a bicameral solution that i worked to help bring republicans and democrats the house and senate together because i've led a committee which i have worked hard to revitalize the free market think-tank also working through the ideology that could advance the pro-growth agenda.

>> if you talk about tax reform that is now of what speaker wright and was working on to get through the committee. his predecessor did the same thing. where does that stand and what can you do to the advance that? >> to fix the broken tax code is the big idea that comes out of the ways and means committee i am convinced republicans and some democrats that former chairman really created the first top to bader rewrite of the tax code in three decades improved you to make a flat and fair and simple to grow the economy and encourage new jobs so that was the important for step in the chairman has already taken steps in the interim to make sure we are experiencing it. so we know the impact of the future tax code to work with

democrats and republicans on international tax reform and innovation to allow american companies to do more r&d every step he has taken proven closer chair tax reform. i will relentlessly pursue the broken tax code every day every week we will take a step forward to fix this broken tax code. thank believe we have a speaker who understands how this can grow the economy that is what republicans are all about growth of families , businesses, as sales, this is our top priority. >> what is a realistic time frame for that? doesn't make sense to go after international with this congress?

>> it could be 2017 because historically reform or occurs in the first year of the president's term but in the interim in front of us we have an opportunity to make key parts of the tax code permanent your the only country in the world that has major parts of the tax code temporary one year at a time sometimes only a few months. i know the chairman has been pursuing an agreement with the senate that could make these key provisions permanent. we're hopeful to come together we want to quit to read the end of the year temporary extensions that frankly don't do the economy any good or a disservice to our constituents.

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>> this map would have folded up and put in their pocket. everything was lightweight, and would've been an essential tool in 1849 to show minors where to go. you can see how quickly this business of mining the minors and producing all of these things, people were quickly making money out of the people looking for gold. >> this we can watch c-span city store in sacramento beginning saturday at noon eastern on c-span to book to be. sunday afternoon at 2:00 p.m. on american history to be on c-span three. the c-span city store working with our cable affiliates visiting across the country.

>> is wildfire season's continuous out the senate agriculture nutritional forced equipment hold a hearing on the threat of the fires. with testimony from conservation organizations and firefighters union. budgetary concerns of her preventing, managing and fighting force fires in the u.s. this is about one hour and 15 minutes. [inaudible]

[inaudible] [inaudible] >> i call this meeting and senate committee to order, today the committee turns its attention to a topic that is quite timely coming off the of the end of a disastrous wildfire season. it is my hope that this hearing as to the public record. about the need to address significant policy issues regarding catastrophic wildfire fire and forced management on federal state, and private

lines. i'll emphasize our committee has oversight responsibility for the u.s. forced service whose primary mission is to sustain the overall health, diversity, and productivity of our country's national force. often thought of of a western issue on public lands, this hearing serves as a reminder that the agriculture committee is a critical role in the larger wildfire debate. national force, unlike national parks and refugees are supposed to be administered and managed in a manner to provide multiple uses and benefits. the forest service readily admits that nearly half of the acres of national force system are at high risk of devastating insect infestations, disease, and caddis tropic wildfires. as a result the polity policy decisions of decades ago we are witnessing a decline in harvest, lawsuits and it is leaving our national force consisting of overstock, simply as more fuel for more buyers.

coupled with other threats such as chronic drought and are characteristic uncharacteristic insect outbreaks are national forest are sitting hazardous fuel stockpiles feel stockpile susceptible to damage in wildfires. today's wildfire season generates larger, hotter, more dangerous wildfires which unlike the currents of natural wildfires that have restorative abilities. these emergencies devastate landscapes, echo systems and communities, and people. in response the 2,014 farmville provided tools and authorities to the for service. they have made positive strides in lamenting the provisions. we have to see more progress and work on the ground. the this summer, the administration warned congress that wildfire suppression costs would consume the for service annual appropriate budget in the coming years. wildlife preparedness and suppression costs account nearly

half of the agency's discretionary budget. that is up 1.6 billion in 1994, 23.9 billion in 2,014 last year. meanwhile in order to address last year other non- fire account resources to cover the costs of wildfire suppression. this redirection of program funding, or fire borrowing, if you will is disruptive to the poor service and its ability to conduct other vital activities like preventative active force management and hazardous fuels reductions. the agriculture committee has a long history of working on in the late financing legislation most notably the passage of the healthy forest restoration act of 2,003. i would remind everyone that our committee is a resource and we want to work with you as we try to tackle this wildfire issue. my hope is the message shared with us today reinforces and

necessitates that the status quo is unacceptable and congress must focus on this issue. before a shuttle can break ground, or even a chainsaw can enter a national force, obviously not on its own, as a former for service chief one said, quote there is a crazy quilt of laws that the poor service must comply with which is time-consuming and costly. the for service must comply with well over 50 separate laws like dnieper, the clean water act and the endangered species act. the entire process, averaging at least three years for agency review and approval for projects by original consumption. not to mention the threat of frivolous lawsuits to stop the restoration work as cost and delays. these are fundamental and systemic problems contributing to the degree agent of the national force system. it is time congress advocate for

solutions to address funding and advocate for solutions for the management of our force. tough decisions will have to be made on a bipartisan basis for policies that promote greater streamlining and agency efficiency so the for service can conduct this kind of work. wildfire knows no boundary. the bureaucratic red tape is a significant contributor. prohibiting the bible restoration work. if nothing changes, everything goes up in smoke. i look forward to hearing from our witnesses. from that i recognize our distinguished ranking members for remarks. >> thank you very much mr. chairman. this is a very important hearing obviously. we appreciate all of our witnesses giving their time and perspective and expertise. i particularly want to give a special luck to chris wood with trout unlimited which was

founded in michigan in 1959. we're happy you're here and look for to your input on this critical issue. the summer was yet, as we know another record-breaking wildfire season resulted in more than 9 million burned acres. destruction of thousands of homes and properties, tragically these fires took the lives of 13 firefighters. we know our thoughts and prayers here today are with the families. this devastation is a stark reminder of the challenges we face when dealing with the issue of wildfires. a warming climate, coupled with drought, increased residential development in fire prone areas has made this problem worse and more complex for us to deal with. while there is not a single solution that will fix this problem, there are several measures that we as policymakers can act now to help make a

significant difference. i hope we'll talk about those today. in july, this committee heard from usda undersecretary robert bonnie who oversees the for service about the urgent main to fix the fire services budget. fixing the budget is a paramount importance. it needs to be a top priority for this congress and for our committee and others. the four for services not routinely forced to transfer funds away from key projects like forest restoration and timber timber sales which help alleviate the threat of wildfires, instead they have to use the funds to pay wildfires. this is known as a fire transfer or fire borrowing is a huge problem. these transfers can cause essentially a stop work order on ongoing and longplaying project which only place must of our force at risk from buyers to invasive species.

for example a grant to help protect our michigan force against invasive species was pulled back by the fire service. so they can spend could spend that money on fighting fires. there are stories similar to this i know that colleagues have across the country. it is time to stop these transfers. to address this senators introduce a bipartisan legislation, the wild fired disaster act which would and the fire transfers by allowing the worst one or 2% of firefighters to be treated like natural disasters. under this plan the fire service would be able to fight the most severe fires, by using disaster funds. certainly, these are disasters like any other disaster in our country. rather than having to transfer funds from other accounts which they are now doing.

i'm pleased to be a cosponsor of this legislation, i appreciate their bipartisan approach. i hope they'll pass the bill. also the 2,014 farmville as the chairman said made significant reforms to the weight you manage are met national forest as we discuss. i am hopeful that we'll talk about this morning and we continue to prioritize the full

are next witnesses william dugan who serves as. >> a union and service firefighter. >> prior to his current position he served in a variety of capacities throughout his career with the department of interior nus for service as a former forrester in the west and of firefighter. welcome, i look for to your testimony and insight. mr. ken stewart will be introduced by the distinguished senator. >> thank you mr. chairman. i am pleased to introduce mr. ken stewart, an area of georgia he's currently serves as chairman of the board of trustees for the american force foundation. he also returned to georgia tech

after having retired as a senior adviser of industries that jesus in 2,010. previously he was appointed commissioner of the georgia department of economic development in january 2007. he joined state government in 2,004 when he was appointed director of georgia for stricken georgia has more privately owned commercially available timberland than any state in the country. george's 24 million acres, 55% is owned by private individuals. only 8% by public, federal, state, and county. we should draw on his wealth and knowledge with private and family landowners in the field. their voices and concerns are critical as they discuss the four street issues that impact them directly. hank you for being here, we look for to your testimony.

>> our next witnesses mr. chris trees, i recognize the senator. >> thank you mr. chairman and thank you to allow me to introduce my witness. i welcome chris trees to today's hearing. he lives in colorado where he serves as the manager of external affairs of the colorado river water conservation district. he oversees legislative and revelatory issues that affect the colorado river basin and over the years we have worked with chris on a number of issues important to this committee. you should know mr. chairman he helped develop portion of the conservation title of the 2014 farmville, he helped ensure the bill focused on water quantity and the new regional conservation partnership program. he also help build consensus around the forster reforms, this includes the treatment program for force suffering from insect

and disease epidemic which is so important for state of colorado. i welcome chris to the committee and thank him for the opportunity to be here today. >> thank you senator. our next witness will be chris would, mr. wood currently serves as the president trout unlimited which is a national conservation organization dedicated to preserve, protect america's coldwater fisheries. prior to joining he also served in a variety of positions within the u.s. for service in the borough of land management during the clinton administration. welcome to our panel. i look for tar testimony. the committee worked very hard to get witnesses addressing this issue by the wood of which by the name of the wood entries. [laughter] >> chairman roberts, members of

the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be here this morning. if we are to maintain a full array of forced wildlife in our national forest we have to maintain the full array of habitats and we are not doing that this point. national force throughout the eastern united states have accomplished on average only 24% of their minimum goal for young forest habitats as identified in existing forced plans. we need to expand active management to move beyond that small number and to do this we need to provide the agency with adequate personnel and financial resources. unfortunate, as you pointed out the u.s. for service is becoming the u.s. fire service. 150% of the budget is eaten alive by addressing these it can

make it difficult for the agency to accomplish much of anything else. a big chunk of that money is going to these buyers which are increasingly common on the landscape and unfortunately are only likely to become even more so. every year, like wildfires in the west we face tornadoes, hurricanes, and we treat them up on them as a natural disaster that they are. it is time we consider doing the same thing for these mega- buyers, these large mass of fires that consume the landscape. personal and financial resources used to combat these mega- fires are unavailable to be used for wildlife conservation and other agency objectives. this leads to the loss of habitat and we see a loss of rough grouse is a critter of immense importance to my critters it is diminishing and particularly in the east. elk and deer, across the nation are declining as they become in short supply. hunting is big business. elk and deer hunters are about

11 million across the nation. expenditures they provide to local and rural economies account for major portion of $34 billion spent by hunters every year. it is not just game animals, when you look at region nine which is in the northeastern corner of the country, approximately -- if you look at just species that require young forest habitats those species are apt to be six times as likely to be declining as they are increasing. region a, southeastern part of the country, same birds, same species, nine times as likely to be declining as increasing. we need to address that. these trends are real. they are disturbing but they are reversible. as you mention, this committee and others in congress did a great job in providing good neighbor authority which will be helpful.

it is just getting into gear but it has tremendous potential to enhance what we can do on the landscape by expanding state and agency and other private partnerships. target categorical exclusion to talk about insect disease issues. we need to expand these tools. one way to do so would be to identify additional targeted categorical exclusions particularly toward wildlife diversity on the force. we need to enhance budgetary certainty within the agency. we have to give them the resources utilized to meet the challenges they face. in summary, wildlife is at the window through which many within our nation be our national force. we need to enhance the ability of the agency to meet the objectives and expectations of the public. thank you. >> thank you chairman roberts, ranking member and members of

the committee for inviting me to testify. our unit represents 110,000 federal workers across the country. working 35 different federal agencies and departments including 20,000 in the for service. prior to being elected to the national office i spent 31 years working for the federal government. i work primarily in the u.s. for service and spent 22 years fighting wildfires. firefighting is dangerous business, when you are on fire the only thing you between you and the trouble is the equipment to brave men and women with you on the firelight. that is why it important to arm people with the resources they need to be safe and complete the mission. the problem in the u.s. is growing, seven of the worse fire season since 1960 have occurred in the last 15 years. nearly 54,000 wildfires burned 9.4 million acres. compare the ten-year average of 69,000 modifiers burning 6.5 million acres. we have to recognize this is the new normal and we must change the way we do business to

account for. the ust inspector general issued a report in 2,010 that per dictate future shortages of qualified firefighters. few were being trained to replace those retiring. that is now coming to fruition in becoming a problem. firefighting agencies have done tremendous work, the development of a consistent certification and training system administered by the national wildfire courtney and group is an outstanding achievement. my union is proud to be a partner and the apprenticeship program which will help take consistency in training to the next level. this program has been underutilized. the attrition rate for the firefighters is high, i am proud my union work with senators in the house.

i would like to thank senator johnson for bringing it forward for a vote where it was passed for unanimous consent. for a firefighter experience is harder experiences hardened on the firelight. prior to passage of the legislation the career path was blocked by flawed and dysfunctional regulations which prevented long-term temporary employees from being able to advance their careers. because of this barrier to career advancement many firefighters left taking their skills with them. with this legislation signed into law it will ensure these long-term temporary employees are allowed to compete fairly for positions when they become vacant. i am disappointed to report that we are still awaiting opm to issue guidance to federal agencies. unfortunately while we wait, hiring for next years firefighting workforce is underway pending opm guidelines,

if this doesn't change within the next few weeks the knowledge loss we have been seeing for too long will continue another year. funding for wildfire suppression continues to be a problem. with the occurrence and severity of wildfires increasing the portion of the budget that goes to fire suppression and preparedness has increased romantically. in fiscal year 2,015 the overall fire management budget was $2.5 billion. 708 million was for fire suppression and 303 million was a special account for firefighting. this is a 60% increase from a decade ago. the expense often ask exceeds the amount set aside and then they transfer amounts to cover the shortfall. this fire borrowing results in cancellation and delays in the agencies on the ground program of work. in fiscal year 2,015 the poor service was forced to transfer $700 million from other programs

to continue to pay for suppression costs after initial funding was exhausted. ironically many of the canceled projects are those designed to reduce the frequency of wildfires. it is robbing peter to pay paul and it cost taxpayers more. we urge you to pass the act to address this. and it edition reduction of hazardous fuels in our force and within communities in the urban interface must be part of the holistic strategy to reduce the wildfire escaping the initial attack and becoming catastrophic. simply increasing the budget by itself will not be effective on reducing the impacts of wildfires. it is time for congress to take action to provide resources and flexibility necessary to protect national forces across the country and protect communities from wildfire. these reforms can't wait until next year they need to be acted on immediately.

thank you. >> thank you very much. on behalf of our firefighters and the ranking member myself all members of the committee to join me in trying to light a fire under the office of personnel management. mr. stewart. >> mr. chairman and members of the committee this is a perfect time for the hearing. fire season is coming to an end right now. i'm impressed with how inform the committee is by the opening statement that were made about the issues that we are facing. the force foundation represents the interest of 22 million family force land owners. these are private landowners that we're talking about. the interest your leadership on this issue is important to us and i would like to also submit,

for introduction to record this western water threatened by wildfire is not just a public lands issue. i want to talk about, not the public side but the private side today. 30% of the lancet in 11 western states, of that 40% of the high fire threat lands are lands that are owned privately that are in the critical fire hazard area. the interesting part is 64 million westerners depend on that watershed for their drinking waters. the catastrophic wildfires they are facing out west right now and have been facing, burn so hot that it creates a parking lot affect. it bakes the soil. so when we have snowmelt or rain it runs often takes the debris and contaminants with it. it doesn't soak up into the soil and trees that would normally happen.

as a result the missy powell these in pawleys in the west are spending millions of dollars just treating their water. 64 million westerners. we dug into this mostly on the private side and what we found was there are barriers to action. people who own the land are ready to go, 77% say there's a disconnect. there are few things we need to deal with and one is the cost. the other is if we treat our land and our neighbors don't, then what happens, what do we accomplish? they have a good point. this is something that is appropriate for congress to begin dealing with for sure. we mentioned earlier 16% of the park service budget was for fires, a decade ago, 50% and now two thirds in 2025 or something is not done. the impact out west is

important, you think george and the southern states and midwestern states also have buyers. but we have seen a tall% decrease in the last five years in the budget. part of these are litigation programs too. some individual programs are down 20%, earlier it was much in the borrowing program that is a significant issue in terms of the effect on programs on some 40% of the service forward sisters have been laid off in the state. this is an about problems and solutions, particularly on private lands here. first we recommend there are three solutions to consider. one we must fix how wildfire fighting is funded. congressional action is needed and has been introduced to treat it like other federal federal emergency funding. secondly, we need funding to better enable the treatment of private family lands and do it on a landscape approach. this is simply words that say we

need to be collaborative and work with our partners, with u.s. and fire service fire service and national resource conservation service, local and community agencies as well so we have a court in a landscape approach. there, it's about markets. it is near and dear to my heart, it starts with markets. we have a way of spending some public money to develop and support those markets through loans and grant programs to help develop them. mr. chairman, certainly the time to act is now, thank you for your consideration. i believe what we are talking about should have good bipartisan support. >> thank you very much for your testimony and pointing out 30% of the forest is held in private lands and your dramatic statement dramatic statement of 64 million people depend on the water water supply.

>> mr. trees. >> good morning, thank you chairman roberts, thank you for the generous introduction. members of the committee, i have the honor today of representing my representing my employer, the colorado river conservation district and the national water resources association and its members across 13 western states. is this committee knows, the pounding purpose of the national poor system was to secure favorable water flows. currently degraded conditions of our national force adversely impacts water chemistry, water runoff time in a water yield. large-scale, high intensity wildfires are becoming more frequent and larger. colorado loan from 2,004 until 2,007, an average of 40,000 acres of forest land was burned. that average jumped from 2,007

until 2014 and 2,140,000 acres per year wildfires greatest impact to the community often comes after the fire is out. water flooding, filtration and debris flow represents the major and recurring threat post fire. 2,003 study found post fire runoff can increase tenfold and erosion rates increase up to 100 times over prefire conditions. remediation costs run into the tens of millions of dollars. drinking water suffers similar or greater increases, nearly all of these costs are borne by local utilities and water providers. federal actions must address both fire suppression and fire

prevention. i applaud the introduction of the bipartisan prepare act addressing limit theme is limited funding, already mentioned is the need to address fire borrowing. the adequate resources for fire suppression cannot come at the expense of fire prevention. fire mitigation works. record-setting haman wildfire and colorado raced across the denver foothills as an uncontrollable crown fire until it reached an area of the force that have been previously thinned when it dramatically and immediately drop to a lesser intensity and manageable ground fire. the 2,014 farm bills and partnership program created an innovative and competitive grant program to encourage and facilitate innovative watershed partnerships.

the resilient federal force act built on the good work of this committee and the 14 farm bill by incentivizing collaboration with local governments by expediting permitting for projects. too often environmental permitting comes as an impediment to critical, time sensitive, on the ground action. the farmville authorization of categorical exclusion for insect infestation is appreciated and is been successfully employed in my district. these are good starts. the deteriorating condition of our forest did not come over nights and we do not contend immediate action is possible. immediate resolution is possible but immediate action is imperative. the western water is committed to working to improve our forest health. i look forward to your question.

>> thank you very much for your testimony. especially emphasizing the need for expediting policy as best we can do that. mr. wood,. >> thank you chairman roberts and committee members. my name is chris wood, i'm the president and ceo of trout unlimited. thank you for the opportunity to testify here today on wildfire management on public lands. the committee is right to focus on this issue. high levels of wildfire spending including wholesale borrowing from other national force programs are substantially undermined undermining the ability of the four service to manage our national force. i offer the testimony tampa have a trout unlimited and it's 155,000 members, many who use and enjoy national force around the country. half of the nation's blue-ribbon trout streams flow across the force.

their contributing factors include changing climate conditions, hotter, drier summers, longer and more severe drought, increasing development in fire prone areas and that legacy has passed timber management policies that have left many of our forest areas vulnerable. the practice of budget rating to fight fire significantly disrupts the four service in the health of the forest under its jurisdiction. ironically, the more money that is transferred or reallocated to fight fire the less money is available to for restoration activities that would improve force resiliency and minimize the severity and impact of fires. we need to address two related problems. first, the midseason, unplanned fire borrowing. the second the scope and scale of fire restoration work. >> release address the

increasing cost of suppression over time. the wildfire disaster planning act is the right solution to solve this problem. in addition, we must accelerate the scope and pace of restoration on a national forest lands. has been mentioned in the recent farmville created opportunities including a small targeted exemption from analysis for certain projects, permanent stewardship authority and expansion of good neighbor authority. it is important to note however that cutting trees alone will not restore our forests. force. restoration must be looked at, must be approached by looking at how to best recover ecological functions and processes that keep the land healthy. closing or relocating roads, fixing culvers, removing unneeded small bands and ensuring adequate flows of water and thinning are all part of an integrated forest restoration

strategy. fundamental is the fact that many of the forest are fire adapted. in fact they need fire to remain healthy. our general approach should be to allow buyers to burn in remote areas as long as they do not pose risk to communities. most hazardous fuel reduction and fire suppression should be focused first and foremost on urban wild land interface areas where people live. it is also important that we educate landowners about steps they can take to make their own homes fire say. homeowners and local governments must bear more responsibility to the provably sharing of homes of and fire areas and help reduce the risk to homes and firefighters. thank you for this opportunity to provide testimony on this important issue. trout unlimited supports efforts to 35 as a critical and necessary improvement and urge

the committee to advance the bill. >> i think the witness. i ask unanimous consent to enter the supplementary information to the record on behalf of of ten different organizations that complement the testimony of our panelists. without objection it is so order. i'm going to ask members to limit their comments to four minutes in the hopes that we can conclude this hearing because we have a vote at 11. we have seven members, we now have six members present. thank you david. the distinguished senator from colorado, five. okay is our distinguished making member five into 20 is for is that correct? okay, i think we can do this.

we asked the cooperation of the witnesses, thank you again for your testimony. can you further elaborate on the need for maintenance of early successional stage forest habitat especially with the conservation and environmental benefits that accrue from this kind of and to maintain early successional forest habitat. it seems to me if we do this we can avoid a lot of the problems. >> thank you mr. chairman. early successional forests are basically young force. characterized by thick, dense protective cover, dense vegetation. they have a host of wildlife species you will not find anywhere else. we have to have those force in the landscape. they host a variety of pollinators. a class of critters right now we are concerned about. pollinator numbers are declining across the country for various reasons.

without question we have to employ additional active management to try to get a better balance between the mature forest and a young force recognizing that mature forests are forest are equally as important as our young force. when we see the latter declining at precipitous rates we have to increase our efforts to address that. a failure to do so will simply mean these species that are of great ecological importance in some regards, will regain their standing on the landscape. a failure to do so frankly, and my perspective, i am a little biased, i think it would be irresponsible. >> thank you very much.

i am going to yield to the distinguished ranking member. >> thank you very much mr. chairman. thank you to all of you. simple question first, i just want to make sure we are clear, i would like each of you to indicate whether or not your organization supports the wildfire disaster funding act? we can start. >> yes. >> yes. >> absolutely. >> yes ma'am. >> yes. >> i think we have unanimous. that is great to know. that is a great place to start. let me go to more specific kinds of questions and let me start with mr. wood. when you talk about the partnership through your work with trout unlimited and with the four service in the past, could you talk more about additional examples and details and illustrate how damaging the fire transfers are to agencies

and their partners when you're trying to do the work that you're doing? >> yes ma'am. what is happening is that organizations that work with four service are doing everything they can to spend as much money as they possibly can before june, or before the fire season starts. in places like michigan, we have seen inventory and road inventories that are not being done to help identify places where culverts and landscape need to be replaced because they are leaving sediment into rivers. we have seen endangered species work that would be done and can't be done areas of course the more we do with species less social and economic we have. we are basically robbing peter to pay paul. we are taking money away from programs that help with manage healthy landscapes and create economic opportunity and job in order to fight fire. >> thank you very much. could you talk a little bit more about your four service national advisory committee.

do you see new opportunity to improve the way the agency develop management plans that will reduce fire risk and restore wildlife habitat question marks. >> i think the primary impetus with regard to the implementation that you're preferring to, we are very interested in the idea of collaboration. bring people to work together during project planning, force planning, so that there is a greater buy-in. we feel quite strongly and i want to be careful because i do not want to speak for members of the committee but i think it is fair to suggest that there is broad consensus that if we can reduce the anchor we'll have more funds to spend a on conservation. >> mr. dugan, could you speak more about your observations

over the years. you started in 1979 with the four service, what implications and changes have you see for the firefighters out on the front line. >> it is pretty clear when you look at wild fighters over the last ten years you are seeing an increase in the severity of the fires. they are burning hotter, they are covering a lot more ground in shorter periods of time. this creates problems from a safety standpoint for the screws that are out there on the landscape trying to dig a fire line to stop the fires. we're see more crown fires, where the fire gets up into the tops of the trees and it can spread rapidly. the fires if large knife they create their own weather system. much of the large amount of money that is being spent on

fires is with 1% of the fires, that escape, initial containment, and landscape characteristics are such that they become catastrophic very quickly. placing not only the firebird but the community in and around the fires in danger. >> thank you. i really appreciate you mentioning the regional conservation program, i look for to talking with you more about that. i think that was a real success of the last farm bill. we are hopeful it will continue to be a positive tool. >> thank you mr. chairman. mr. dugan i have a question. we understand the discussion going around with fire borrowing, i have a question related to some of the underlying cause and what thoughts do you have on things that we could do to reduce the

cost of suppressing large fire. >> we need to invest more in hazardous fuel reduction, and pre-suppression activities. it is the same approach is going to as going to a dentist and getting your teeth clean. it is insurance trying not to get a cavity. the same principle applies in the force. we have to actively manage these force. if you look at the predominance of force in united states there the united states there fire adaptive force. they depend on fire. the problem we have out there today is our own making. over the last 100 years we have been aggressive in putting out every fire that starts and not allowing fire to have a natural role in the landscape and ecosystem. because of that we have these large buildups of both ground fuels and standing fuel, so if we get a fire going now, it creates a problem. we have to be actively managing and reducing hazard.

>> i agree with the prevention argument. the question about once it occurs, are we as efficient as we possibly can be and ultimately trying to address these wildfires once they occur? >> i think there is always room for improvement. when i look back on my career in the history of firefighting in this country, other than some of the new technology we have in terms of having planes that are dropping fire retardant. we do not have that at the beginning of the 1900s. in terms of the actual work in tools that people on the ground are using to dig a fire line, that has not changed very much. i think it is worth while thinking worthwhile thinking about and asking the fire agencies whether there is interest or if they think it would be a good outcome and investing in research and looking at new technology to

help these folks out on the line. >> what about the structural relationships, i'm from north carolina and we have a lot of firefighters got northwest to help with and assist. how would you assess that cooperative relationship when you need additional resources go out there. >> it is absolutely critical. this year, at its peak of the fire season we had over 30,000 people on the fire lines nationwide. so, without having the ability to move crews, whether they are contractor crews, federal employees, without the ability to move those folks where we need them where the most critical fires are, we would have a much worse situation. i really appreciate that your state and others have pitched it

over the years. >> i want to keep to my time because the chair scares me. i'd appreciate all the witnesses being here and appreciate any feedback after the hearing in my office. thank you. >> senator. >> thank you very much mr. chairman. minnesota is a big part of the culture of our state, and all-star economy employing 40,000 people in the forest industry. $9.7 billion. that is what my grandpa did after the my close down. it is near and dear to my heart. i am most concerned about the fact that the transfers of money which have to take place for emergency and fighting fighters, it is taken away from what we can do to prevent these fires from happening in the first place. budget transfers prevented feels

reductions, burns on 165 acres this year. this not only protects the force from wildfires but the surrounding communities. mr. trees, you talk about how communities and water infrastructure is impacted and often destroyed by wildfires. how have water resource agencies had to adapt their safety procedures to accommodate wildfire risk? >> thank you senator. i have done their best but it is an enormous investment. some of the larger communities have been able to create redundancy and establish multiple watershed sources for their water. for the most part however, that is not possible in rural colorado and western colorado, my district is mostly small communities. it is cost prohibitive. >> exactly. mr.'s tomb, what role can

private forest owners play in restoring force health. >> i speak mostly to the private landowner but in fact it is a cooperative effort. i have also talked about neighbors and public and private lands our neighbors throw the country. they both need to be actively managed. lack of management combined with the climate conditions we find in the drought particularly in the west are all contributing factors we find ourselves. interestingly, this ultimately gets back to the budget. if we spend money on the budget, maintain the programs which continue to improve the land and invest in state and local programs that the park service has, it improves it over time. it's something we have to continue to invest in. >> thank you. back to my original point here,

what you think we should be doing beyond putting the money into fighting fires, what should we be doing to change some of our policies and solutions to address force health and along those lines, what concrete steps should we take to assist the poor service in meeting the forest land. in minnesota we have it reach the goals of how many trees should because and it is created creating a further problem because fires can then go more rapid. >> very simply, secure the budgetary authority to fund these things as they are. natural disasters. oppose from taking the money from the budget and allow them the personnel resources to get the work done on the ground that has been identified through the planning process. >> thank you. >> asked her what? >> i think it has been said before an ounce of prevention is

worth cure. we need to take steps to make sure communities are safe by doing hazardous treatments around the communities. making sure we are protecting homes and operating at larger landscapes in terms of restoration. the first thing we have to do is fix the fire borrowing program. >> thank you. i will give you a question on the record, i am out of time. >> i would like to remind the new members, not the new members, the members who have come to the committee at this particular time that we are on a four minute time schedule tried to make the vote. >> 's thank you mr. chair very much. thank you for joining us today. i'm sorry to join the discussion late. if you would, have any of your agencies or organizations utilize or witnessed utilization

of the national guard forces in any of these forest fire activities? if you could just share with us that experience. >> yes, this season was the first time since 2,006 when the national guard and military forces were called in to supplement the firefighting workforce. other agencies responsible for managing utilize many hundreds if not thousands of military personnel. >> anybody else have experience in utilizing any of the national guard? we do have some wonderful army and air guard personnel and we should not overlook the capabilities that are available with those types of response units. that is i have. all i have. thank you mr. chair. >> thank you senator.

>> thank you mr. chairman. i want to say to you on behalf of of the people i represent in colorado how much we appreciate you holding this hearing. the testimony has been excellent and what comes through to me is that there is a compelling consensus that what we are doing now does not work and we have to change it. it is long overdue and you are bringing attention to this issue that comes at a critical moment when we can get it done. look, there but, there are two big issues here. the first is, in the name of fiscal responsibility we are managing our force in the most irresponsible fiscal way we can management. we are taking money which could be spent on medication and restoration and using it to suppress fires. then there is not money left to mitigate or restore which is why we talk about it is a penny wise and pound foolish. we have to stop it.

no one at the local level would ever accept the what swam managing the resources and we should not accept it either. second of all we have a debate in the congress about what the role of the federal government should be. anybody who is downstream of these headwaters in colorado needs to care about the condition of the force in colorado. we are in this together. we are one nation. i cannot think of an issue where it is more true than here. what we are doing now fails the test in terms of fiscal responsibility. in terms of anybody's respective of what federal as a means and i hope we can get this legislation passed. thank you for your