tv Key Capitol Hill Hearings CSPAN November 17, 2015 12:00am-10:01am EST
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violations of international humanitarian law and international human rights law. these are illegal actions which set the scene for war crimes and crimes against humanity. those responsible must be brought to justice. in this context, it is extremely strikely there are no direct references in the report to military operations in which the al nusra front took part during the reporting period though there are several references to isis and the nonstate factors which by the way is a misnomer. this act of information unfortunately does not help an understanding of what is happening on the ground. we also reject the fact that -- they are using civilians of ethnic groups, minorities, as human shields. these actions must be em fatically rejected by the
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international community. this is an attempt on human dignity. it is high time that the actions are no longer sheltered under the umbrella of ka so called nonstate factors. we continue to condemn the practices of the so-called nonstate actors and isis of using basic services, such as basic services as weapons of war. we also re jject emphatically t destruction of the cultural heritage of syria affected by the totalitarian division of isis which wants to eliminate any historical vestiges of the past which does not cohen side with their vision of religion.
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we wish to raise our voice in defense of the children of syria. we denounce terrorist attacks on children and we call on the international community to mobilize in their defense. in the search for a negotiated political solution to the conflict, we welcome the fact that the participation of the syrian government is taking into account in the consultations. the syrian government is a prime actor for an agreement. pretending that the contrary is the case and stressing the fact makes no sense. it simply condemns syrian people to greater suffering and all humanity to labyrinth of uncertainty. it will only postpone the solution. we reiterate our support to the work of the special envoy for
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syria, who has full support towards reaching peaceful, political solution to the conflict with full participation of all parties involved in the conflict and the government of president bashar al assad. we are closely following the results of negotiations in vienna and the implementation of immediate cease-fire, which will help pal tate the humanitarian situation. hope to have access to all by the parties as a member of the security council to in order to contribute the necessary unanimity in the work of this council. we call for negotiated solution to this crisis. the people of syria have paid an extremely heavy price to defend its integrity, sovereignty, defeat terrorism. the international community must
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mobilize to restore peace. syriai syr syria unfortunate have become a laboratory of horror and death. history will judge those guilty for this atrocity. thank you very much, madam president. >> thank you for his statement. i now give the floor to the representative of malaysia. >> madam president i thank you for convening the important meeting and presiding over. like earlier speakers before me i wish to convey our deepest condolences to delegation and people of france and appalling terrorist attacks in paris last friday. we stand in solidarity with france in this time of grief. in the same sentiment condolences extended to lebanon, tunisia, egypt. madam president i thank mr. o'brien and others for respective contributions to the meeting. all of which have underscored
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the desperate situations and need for urgent action in syria. alongside other council members, we follow the outcome of the most recent talks in reenna and announce the road map towards peaceful development of conflict in syria. my de delegation stands ready on this matter. madam president, in as much as political we'll play a large part in securing agreement in vienna, will remain deeply concerned by the astounding toll of the syrian conflict to date. more than 250,000 people dead, over 1 million people injured, over 7.6 million people displaced, roughly 13. 5 million people in need of humanitarian assistance, including more than 5.6 million children at which life expe expectancy shortened by 13
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years. school attendance less than 30%. parties to the conflict remain indifferent to pain and suffering inflicted upon syrian people. acts of impunity continue unabated. we remind all parties of the conflict of the obligations to respect international humanitarian law and international human rights law. the syrian conflicts also continue to be characterized by indiscriminate attacks and deliberate targeting of civilian and civilian infrastructure. the use of bombs and toxic chemicals by the parties to the conflict are particularly abhorrent. malaysia remains deeply concerned by continued report of sexual violence against women, girls and children, committed by partied to the conflict. women and girls not only face
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rape and sexual abuse, they also affect slave and forced into marriage to foreign marriage. is disgraceful that children are stripped of their innocence and deprived of protections. the recruitment and use of children is becoming increasingly commonplace. reports that children are being used as forced labor, as sex slave, and even as human shields are deeply disturbing. the siege mentality or strategy ensuring submission and surrender of the operation is a further disconcerting to the syrian conflict. it is appalling that such a method has been employed as a strategy of war by the parties to the conflict. the fact that even schools and hospitals have been deliberately targeted is a reflection of the absolute disrespect, disregard and contempt that the parties to the conflict have for the values of humanity. madam president, in the face of
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such misery and desperations, we are -- by the various u.n. agencies in providing much-needed humanitarian aid and support to the civilian population in syria and commend the efforts. in this regard we deeply regret across line access continues to face security and administrative obstacles. the populations in the hard to reach areas remain critical. madam president, on our part, my government is constantly taking steps to honor its commitment to take in 3,000 syrian refugees. we call on international community to do as much as possible to help syrian people in their time of need. i thank you. >> i thank the representative of malaysia for his statement. i now give the floor to the representative of nigeria. >> thank you, madam president.
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we welcome you to the security council and we thank you for convening to this meeting. we also want to thank you for -- we express our appreciation to the secretary-general for his monthly report on the subject. we also want to join other delegations in expressing very deep condolences to the people of france, lebanon, on the horrific despigable attacks on the population by isis. the briefing we have had today and the report of the secretary-general clearly indicate humanitarian situation in syria remains dire. the conflict continues to take a heavy toll on the civilian population, noncombatants, especially women and children, face grave hardship with hundreds of thousands trapped in
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besieged areas. s is it deeply troubling international humanitarian law continues with impunity by the parties of conflict. over the past month, hundreds of civilians have been kill or injured or maimed in direct or indiscriminate attacks in populated areas. the warring parties must refrain from actions that jeopardize civilians. it constitutes a war crime and those responsible for such acts are war criminals, must be brought to justice. we note the commitment of government of syria to refrain from the indiscriminate use of weapons. we condemn the deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure, which is causing
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cut in water and electricity supplies. we also condemn attack from health care facilities and medical personnel as well as denial -- it is regrettable that the delivery of humanitarian challenging due to active conflict, insecurity, and administrative bottlenecks. there is a need for humanitarian actors to be allowed to perform their duties without hindrance. the parties must facilitate rapid and unimpeded humanitarian access to affected people throughout the country. we want to pay tribute to the u.n. humanitarian agencies and unrelenting efforts of reaching the millions of people in need,
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in need of aid, despite challenges and operating environment. we do recognize the u.n. mechanism is fulfilling by ensuring the strictly humanitarian nature of the united nations humanitarian shipments. we conmend governments of jordan and turkey for cooperation with this mechanism. madam president, i clearly indicated this afternoon, as in the briefing, the plight of children affected by the syrian conflict is deeply disturbing. the use of children in combat has become commonplace in syria. we are particularly concerned about cases of abduction, killing and maiming of children as well as attacks on schools. we underscore the need for international community to act syrian children from the
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disastrous consequences of war. sexual violence in the syrian conflict is also a matter of great concern. as stated, displaced women and girls are at risk of various form of sexual exploitation including sexual enslavement, mass rape and forced killings and forced marriage. we condemn these acts in the strongest terms. these affairs underscores the need for more to be done to protect women and girls, and the sev seven-point strategy of what can be done is worth exploring. madam president, we must all admit the cause and effect relationship between the humanitarian situation and the conflict in syria is what we must explore further. the solution to this
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humanitarian crisis in syria lies and ends in the conflict and path to end in the conflict is in negotiation. after five years of fighting, it should be clear to the parties that there can be no military solution. we encourage the warring parties to lay down their arms and pursue negotiated solution. the meetings in vienna involved an expanded group of international stakeholders provided much needed -- we believe sustenance will provide an opportunity to develop framework of peace along the key pieces of the geneva community. i would hope they would lead to lasting peace, resolution and stability in syria. i thank you. >> a thank the representative of
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nigeria for her statement. i now give the floor to the representative of chad. >> madam president, thank you for leading the session. before we start, allow me to associate my voice with that of previous speakers. to pay tribute to the french government and people for their steadfastedness in light of this barbaric act of terrorism which struck them. we condemn the horrendous act. we'd like to extend our condolences to lebanon and lebanese people who also fell victim to terrorism. i'd like to convey my gratitude to mr. steven o'brien and the other two for their briefings. close to five years now, violent fighting on a almost daily basis
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marked the live of the syrian people. horrendous statistics of displaced people, refugees, of day further plunge syrians into a situation of despair. the humanitarian situation in the country continues to deteriorate. this despite the huge effort undertaken by united nations staff members and we'd like to pay tribute to their courage and their commitment we condemn all attacks committed against innocent civilian. as well as the basic vital infrastructure of the country and ask all parties to immediately lift all obstacles to the access of humanitarian aid for yicivilians in combat areas including besieged zones. we would like to reiterate for
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all parties to put an end to the violence and underscore their obligation to respect international humanitarian law and international human rights resolution 2139. there's a need here to recall and that this systemic refusal to provide humanitarian access to civilian population depriving them from the basic necessities they require for their survival, which is water, medicine, are serious violation of human dignity and the most basic principles of international humanitarian law. madam president, the security council meetings on syria succeed one another without any improvement in the situation experienced by the long, suffering syrian people.
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it's high time for security council to consider firmer, strong, more robust concrete measures to put an end to the human tragedy which is being experienced by syria. of international humanitarian laws and reduced the security council to the role of a powerless observer. we urge the donor community to respond to the various calls and appeals for humanitarian financing, which would enable the united nations staff members and partners to provide the necessary assistance to the civilian population in need. both within and outside syria. becoming winter will expose civilian population to very difficult living conditions.
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for this reason, we require special mobilization by the community as we've have always said, humanitarian action, despite its scale, will never be able to substitute itself in the political process. and this is a reason why we have to step up our efforts aimed at helping the parties to find a negotiated solution to the conflict. a/jli0wñ solution which is able an end to the suffering of the syrian people and launch an inclusive political solution. inclusive political solution. behooves states possessing anyg parties to spare no effort, to prompt them to commit themselves in good faith to direct negotiations to implement the geneva,z kucommunique. ntr(t&háhp &hc% >> i thank the representative of clad for his statement. i give the floor to the
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representative of chile. >> translator: thank you, madam president. we welcome you, secretary of state, for international development of the united kingdom. we are also grateful for the presentations of the deputy secretary-general for humanitarian affairs, steven o'brien, and representatives of the secretary-general on sexual violence on the conflict and the issue of children in conflict. we extend our condolences in solidarity to the victims, families of the victims, the people of the government of franceúand people of government of lebanon and all countries and regions who daily suffer from the scourge of terrorism. any act of terrorism is criminal and unjustifiable and the
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organizers and backers must be brought to justice. madam president, the latest report of the secretary-general is one of the many warnings that the situation in syria has become unsustainable. the conflict breaks down the basic conditions for a society, syrian society's identity, security and dignity. it is impossible to remain indifferent faced with the enormous vulnerability and effects of the crisis on the civilian population. which cannot access indispensable, basic elements for its daily life. all parties are aware of their grave consequences of the facts which cannot take shelter in impunity. those responsible must be brought to justice. we reiterate the need to promote
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mechanisms to protect the population, opening corridors, displaced people's camps and areas which are difficult to gain access to. because imperative to the conditions to ensure respect for humanitarian law and humanitarian resolutions calling on parties to refrain from continued attacking medical facilities, schools and basic infrastructure. madam president the presentation we heard from special representative simply confirms the gravity of the situation of sexual violence and gender violence in the syrian conflict. where it has been used not only as a tactic of war but tactic of terror. it is essentialsvlurzw÷ for the nations to prevent measured based on the situation noted on
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the ground. we must fully implement tolerance for sexual violence. also concerned at the devastating consequences of constant attacks on boys and girls and limited access to education amongst other fundamental rights. we cannot allow generation to be lost and we are responsible as security council when it comes to the tragedy, as pointed out. it is fundamental to implement the declaration of safe schools as wells resolution 2143 of this council to protect schools from military use during armed conflict. lastly, we wish to conclude by reiterating the political situation is the only path to respond to humanitarian needs.
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recent talks in vienna are a glimmer of hope and we call for implementation of the vienna communique of october 30th and elements agreed upon by the international syria support group. also essential to have political process led by syrians themselves as enshrined in the geneva communique. however the political solution will continue to be as far away as the situation is militarized we call for an end to supply and flow of weapons to all parties. thank you very much, madam president. >> i thank the representative of chile for his statement. i now give the floor to the representative of france.
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>> madam president, allow me to start by thanking all of the speakers for their briefings, o'brien, they remind us with their work how many civilians, how many women, how many children suffer directly in syria. i would also like to thank in a heartfelt way all of those who extended to my country the sympathy as well as solidarity after the horrible attacks committed on november 13th. on that day, france was struck at the very heart in paris by terrorist attacks masterminded and planned in syria. the record, as you know, is a very heavy one, at least 129 dead, over 300 injured, and a
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great many individuals who right now, as we speak, still hang on between life and death. france received a great many gestures of solidarity and friendship throughout the world. these gestures, these messages touch us and illustrate the unanimous support which international community has led my country. france, of course, was not the only country which was attacked friday evening, at least 19 different nationalities were affected. our thoughts go to families of the victims both in france but our thoughts also go to all of the families which were affected these last few months by terrorism which acknowledges -- lebanon, turkey, denmark, kuwait, libya, tunisia, egypt, and other countries yet.
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madam president, i am the representative of a country which is still standing, which is united, more determined than ever before in the past who speaks to you. we are committed to combatting terrorism, a respect for the laws and rule of law. the motto of the friend. republic never meant more. france is a free and independent country, strong in terms of its multicultur multiculturalality, the france hit on friday, november 13th. the monster feeds of ethnic and religious division in the region and beefed up by hatred and rejection of the other. it oppresses and massacres people in the middle east on a me
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? ñ wealth whe mankind. we need to bei: guidef5ruuz udo objectives and they compliment! -do. a resolute determined -- there's a need for resolute determined fight against terror up. the whole international community can be united in this fight. adopt a resolution aimed at fighting againstujc'& terroris. also called for togetherness within the framework of a great and united international coalition to combine our strength and our means to destroy daish. daish is a common enemy and we must put an end to those who destroy and kill such determination.
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finally, the search for a political solution in syria more necessary than ever before. syria has become the greatest factory in manufacturing terrorists. members of the council and countries in the region must unite to relaunch a political transition, one in which bashar al assad is not part of the solution. there's a need to achieve concrete progress in the field of humanitarian issues as well as the cessation of all indiscriminate attack of civilians vienna, france, made a number of concrete proposals at a time when the situation on the ground, which is already alarming, is further deteriorating. the resolutions adopted by this council must be implemented without delay. this is something -- it is
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crucial that we stand united in the face of these two objectives. the refugee crisis is one of the most direct consequences of the humanitarian disaster. if it lasts this situation cannot ub create a highly destabilizing situation. more important than ever before to help the countries bordering on syria, they after all host the greatest number of refugees and i wish to thank them here for this. right after the country's other other region europe is at the front line. inhabitants of iraq and syria, including territories control by daish are fleeing because of being oppressed. welcoming them in a dignified way, a moralgbq÷añf
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destabilization, france will never renounce what she is, a free country, and she will never renounce her values. we overcome this trial. but we, international community, must stand united and together defend the universal principles. determination of france is absolute. thank you. >> i thank the representative of i now give the floor to the representative of the syrian arab republic. >> translator: thank you, mr. president. the way certain security council address the situation in syria reminds me of a quote by shakespeare, there is an elephant in the room.
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this means that there is a huge, visible problem that cannot be overlooked. however, certain members in this chamber pretend that it doesn't exist. and they choose not address it or seek a solution to it. this is precisely how council members address the situation in syria. when the decision makers ignored the key surge destabilizing syria, the region and the whole world, the scourge which was the reason for humanitarian tragedy besetting several areas in syria which was the main reason for the suffering of children and women in syria, and transforming segments of the syrian people to
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idps and refugees. this scourge is that tra transboundary terrorism fund by well-known state, chief among them, saudi arabia, the blood line that provides life to terrorism. the scourge of terrorism was unleashed from the what hab byness, it struck in a bare barrick and indiscriminate manner, da mass kas, baghdad, kuwait, tunisia, libya, algeria, sydney, boston, paris, and other states. and other cities. condemning in the strongest terms the terrorist act, paris, and expressing our condolences to the families of the victims, we recall that in this very
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chamber there are members who prevented the security council nine times from issuing a mere press statement condemning similar attacks that targeted innocent civilians in da ma s d aleppo and others. what we have witnessed in the cities did not come from a vacuum and it has not -- did not happen by chance. it is the certain outcome of the attempt of certain parties to ignore this issue and to -- failure to address it with the serious and attention that is required. so long as it struck the other this is a certain outcome of the exploitation by certain parties to blackmail the syrian
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government. we have warned those have fall silent will be burnt by terrorism because it is a dynamic transbou boundarboundar. however, our calls fell on deaf ears rather certain states managed to make terrorism enter the political arena from the main door. they resorted to workings, dividing terror up into two categories. calling certain terrorists moderate opposition, disregarding the consequences of such. and not realizing that if you have a political problem with syrian government, this is a negotiable issue. but if you resort to sanctions
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and if you fund terrorism and if you refuse to what the syrian -- this is a crime that you commit against your own people. as much as it is a crime against syrian people, because, as you know, we are in syria, we are fighting on behalf of the whole world, filthy terrorist groups, every time the syrian army kills a foreign terrorist, dozens of innocent victims, potential victims are protected. when this terrorist go back home and do the same thing, those who
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distort this reality is an accomplice in terrorism. he or she is a partner in the bloodshed of victims. recall the perpetrators of many terrorist attacks in several cities in the world, including the recent bloody attacks against paris where, among the thousands of europeans whose entry into syria facilitated as jihadists. after receiving -- funded by well-known gulf states, there is an awakening on the seriousness of terrorism. that led the president of a permanent security council member to amend the constitution of his country to face to the
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terrorism. hence, acts should accompany words with regard to combatting terrorism in syria, that is funded by 40 states, in addition to the illegal trade of oil and the illegal trade of artifacts in syria through our borders with turkey. this requires serious political will to implement relevant resolution on combatting terrorism. which were asserted by the second communique. this requires also concerted, coordinated, collective efforts unone front against terrorism,
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away from the political opponents or amateurs. time and again, we have expressed our resonance to cooperate with any state that is serious in combatting terrorism. this is precisely what has happened through the joint syrian, russian military nopgs combatting terror up in addition to then tell against coordination between syria, iraq, iran, russia, which led to practical results in the field, namely retreat by terrorist groups in many areas which led to the secure, safe, voluntary return of 1 million syrian idps to their home. addressing terrorism, sir, leads me to address the political solution of the crisis in syria.
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combatting terrorism seriously and effectively will contribute to the successful -- to the success of the solution. from outset the syrian government expressed readiness to contribute to any serious efforts in order to achieve political solution. this is why we cooperated with mr. kofi an an, aaccepting his six-point plan. we've then cooperated to the geneva ii conference. we cooperated and accepted the proposal on aleppo and accepted to take part in the four working groups, suggested by him. our political message to you, ladies and gentlemen, following the end of the vienna meeting is that the syrian government stands ready to contribute to
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any sincere effort in order to achieve a political solution where syrians decide their own future and their choices through dialogue among syrians under syrian leadership without external intervention in a manner that accuse the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity of syria. this what has been asserted by the several resolution adopted by the council in addition to the vienna communiques. unfortunately the recent reports by the secretary-general on the implementation of resolutions 2139, 2165, 2191, was politicized by us including ereas
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ereas erroneous information. we introduced two letters on this issue. i wish to address a serious matter in this report, namely, report is based on unreliable sources from sources whose connections are very well known, which mislead the members of the council. with regard to the allegation that the government is using indiscriminate weapons i assert that the syrian army does not, has not, will not, use any indiscriminate weapons. it acts in accordance with international law in the framework of combatting terrorism. those who are killing civilians are those who are using them as
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human shields in many areas in syria, including our deliberati deliberations on the dangers of terrorism and importance of combatting should not be misunderstood, but we do not realize the seriousness of the humanitarian situation in syria, the situation of our children and our women, that this should not be at the expense on the crux of the problem and should not be politicized or should not be subjected to double standards. we are in discussion with mr. o'brien. we have organized missions to syria in order to address any outstanding issues. i welcome mr. o'brien's visit next month to syria. we stand ready to cooperate with
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>> both guest were appointed to the bench by president reagan sold is not your typical left and right debate like in washington. receives the judges are in a unique position to contribute to the improvements of the lot ted administration of justice by writing articles and giving lectures in debating ideas to have an impact on the legal system. thinks for taking time out of their busy schedules to give us the benefit of their experiences from the bench that could improve the legal system. first and want to take a minute to raise a foundation for the discussion that will follow.
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please yourself -- herself notice silenced as a courtesy. i should note at the outset we could have a three day conference still not cover the issues that pertain to the american criminal-justice system. just to put a few questions on the table if they want to focus on other issues, and that's fine to. then we can get to the questions after the debate. here are four questions to consider. do we have a problem with over criminalization?
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to many criminal statutes criminalizing too much activity? number two. is the sentencing system to severe? but we incarcerating people longer than just or necessary? this is what the house of the senate are presently debating. third. do we have a problem with police and prosecutorial abuse. we do here by innocent people getting released from prison because of dna testing. are they always mistakes that our inevitable or are they indications of deeper problems spike government officials? fourth. what about the level of crime in our society? "the washington post" that baltimore has a 300 homicide of the year some of the crimes by.
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what can be done to minimize this violence so we have you were crime victims? going first is the judge serving on the night circuit court of appeals. last week he marked the 30th year on the ninth circuit. congratulations. known for many things, his magic tricks and stronger romanian accent before his sharply worded opinions and articles. he wrote a scathing beauty -- critique entitled criminal law at 2.zero and his arguments have caused a stir in legal circles. because and i was talking to a prosecutor or snacked and
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but he published an article last year titled in defense of the american criminal-justice system where he response to critics to make the point it has virtues plays welcome judge wilkinson back. [applause] spirit the format today is simple each judge will give the initial presentation and have a very brief second round given five minutes to respond to what the leather has said. does the criminal-justice system need an overhaul?
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the united states is an allied air in the number of people that it has. with get the numbers above who it has suffered 2.2 million behind bars. but compare that to their countries like tuna -- with a population and has four times the number of people but they have messieurs fuel in prison. but the of the one that is
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louisiana with 5 million people has far more prisoners than canadath 5 millin people has far more prisoners than canada with 36 million. there are those that means more than one for every 100 residents is in prison. i find that surprising and somewhat shocking. we have much harsher sentences for the same crime. is it justified? in terms of the costs that it the likelihood the likelihooo just the cost to themselves
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told us should be employed by with the scientific evidence. much about the except, we just assume that with various kinds of scientific evidence is put to the task and day test how often, a there are tremendous error rates. and a bite marks even fingerprints that is close to be the gold standard for decades. it turns out even when they
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test not blatant test but for the actual there is a non trivial error rate that shows up. the poster child case is when the fbi says 100 percent edge in the bag linked to the bombings in the said the guys fingerprints' was an attorney enters the two days later they identified a different person with a 100 percent match so the fbi had to apologize to brand him an international criminal. at least he got an apology. not everybody does.
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there is no validation necessary. but he was charged with setting fire to his house and his children were killed and they had an expert come and testify of fire had to have been excellent but it turns out that technique is widely used by people who were not experts. those that draw certain conclusions he was executed
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they live up to the standards but it doesn't pay very many or others just to be misguided lariat over the problem because of one gets a head because he lies a makes a harder for everybody else is to be take care of. so i was challenged by my colleagues have the you know, ? the answer is i don't know i can be sure but most are not signed out we have enough
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but not to allow the testing to go forward he did not want him exonerated but it took six years of the courts of texas and at that point it discovered to a man they were would who was tried and convicted but while he is imprisoned convicted of killing his wife and another murder happens in the neighborhood and now norwood was charged with that crime. the case is pending at want to say any more because pending prosecution but now
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there is the strong suspicion that he committed the other murder but had they not hidden the evidence focusing on anybody else it is barely possible that a woman would still be alive today. now let's talk about "scooter" libby. it was based on information of a phone call that happened four years earlier. the woman on the event and was judith's -- judith miller but somehow he persuaded her that so the
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plan is with the cia because just this year but she raises a horrifying possibility. read the boad the bo3 possibility. read the book. was then manipulated? said the prosecutor put it well. >> i will have to go very quickly. my time is running out. >> i will skip over that next part too many cases on things if you read the
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to bring them together for trial. but then other judges would give instruction as required by judge solomon did not they found a judge that they liked to do it incorrectly instead of filing the case in the normal course baptist is sleazy and i am surprised they have not brought discipline against agents that do that.
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>> he was quickly put into a car with his hand cuffed there in the building before that obviously. >> he knew they were coming for him they asked him to surrender. a the prosecutors refused instead they come out of 5:00 in the morning and how do there happen to be cameras and reporters on the scene to film this? because he said i will be arrested, nancy me? no. they wanted the perp walk it
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there again, i judgmental not as interested in justice as i was in winning but that physical evidence was appeared jobs finance at its worst and i apologize for all the misery i have caused him. in an extraordinary interview with the local paper that the entire criminal justice system was broken. >> they don't care about the victim but their record. in my early thirties i was caught up in that insanity and we did not try people who were innocent. >> i submit you the answer
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and and a stimulating article? with the distinction of the federal bench with the commentary and questions are helpful to us all. i came to the position of the criminal justice system it occurred to me and maybe the only one. [laughter] that greatest interest of academic studies and discussions and it was a relentless assault on the criminal justice system and
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nobody had much good to say about it. it was very interesting but i did not notice from the complement. i thought somebody has to speak but don't get me wrong never, never persuade you it is run by human beings and but the question that i kept coming back to is what do we replace it with? what would you do instead?
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hall could it be otherwise? we cannot impanel a jury on a crime scene. it takes time to interview witnesses. inevitably with that type time that it takes it will be dead after the criminally event itself to rely upon human memory and the judge says the prosecution enjoys the non-tariff advantage they can present person that is the case that sticks in the injuries might for i am not sure that is always correct sometimes it is the
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words that you here last is the most influential but how else? you cannot have a defendant defending himself in a trial before he has been accused having him go first that is with the presumption of innocence we would never except that so it is a better example of a box of the system. my opponent also says it is so unfair because the police have the ability to wide the investigate a crime in during that course of the investigation acquire a familiarity of evidence that the defendant doesn't have
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but the party bringing suit greatly enjoys investigated the advantage. so they do investigate because they are charged with initiating that is not something we can get around. beleaguered added feel more comfortable they are investigating i would not want them to cut corners. i would not want the police or prosecution to go forward with the half baked case so actually it turns exculpatory evidence and they think no further investigation is not the case at all.
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case among themselves while it is going on it is dangerous in a practical matter it will link them in a trial a great deal and remember recast jurors to serve, we are asking them to cut out time from their day and things that make that service longer puts a further imposition upon them. day really want jurors talking with each other about their impressions before all the evidence is in? it is much better in order to be fair minded way intel each side has awful chance to present evidence to bring in the jury's sentencing.
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again i disagree. sentencing is different from a trial because the presumption of innocence has faded away if you have jurors that sentencing idled think they possess the day by day familiarity with the cases having jurors that since thing is like the trial itself and in that situation more evidentiary objections but what is happening to move closer to a trial model the grand juries are handmade to
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become a more adversary proceeding have them get into the sentencing act with evidentiary hearings and if we keep going in this direction with these proceedings of grand juries in collateral attack that they resembled the trial you have a system to collapse under its own weight there are so many e accusations that they throw so many
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arguments that you but you don't know where to begin. those that our dependent friendly bid in trying to do away with them. for the peremptory challenges that most if you are familiar with those to strike for many practical reason that they want but justice thurgood marshall that they should be done away with with that
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particular position because there is to much of a chance they will be used racially to disqualify jurors. that has some validity to it were the case was marked down by the prosecution that is not before my court but that goes way beyond what we are prepared to accept you want to abolish those challenges altogether?
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the defendant has more than the prosecution. the defendants exercises of the challenges is rarely challenged but printery challenges fill the important gap in the criminal justice system because they are never likely to eliminate the edgers from the system. but that is simply the tip of the iceberg you have done peremptory challenges to fill them out and the defendant is certainly should be able to say i cannot put my eight think you're on it but i think destroyer has it been for me
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defendant should be able to strike an individual's life part company with a large number of critics who say they should not use them at all. to dealing with prosecutorial abuse that there are instances where prosecutors have behaved in a shameful way and those have been highlighted my friend is correct on that in
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every way but tell us you did not mean it when you said to abolish absolute immunity from prosecution for prosecutors. does your position really take you that far? your article seems to suggest we should do away with absolute immunity for prosecutions. i disagree with that it is very damaging to have a civil damages action brought against a prosecutor there is the acquittal and that this would have been and sometimes you can create a
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cause of action that you run the risk for those that may have merit if we did away for the absolute immunity what would we replace it with? you don't have to have full absolute immunity be you could have qualified immunity that turns out to be no immunity at all. it runs up against a summary judgment standard that says all have to be given to the non prevailing party so the
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summary judgment standard draws these cases into trial and the supreme court has said many times the immunity is lost. you can tie at prosecutorial resources that more and more prosecutors are doing everything but prosecuting and the supreme court and has been firm on this question to a teacher from prosecution's sometimes they decline for various reasons.
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sometimes it is easier to pick the low hanging fruit. so you run the risk from going from one end of the pendulum which i think would be the case if we did a dash deemed colleague in is suggesting. tacked on plea-bargain in. the atm is it it is nothing but the assembly line that people run through without any sensitivity or day plead guilty because of the risks
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they face a more serious punishment at trial. so it needs to be qualified. if public defenders are correct they have too many cases on their docket it but you cannot deny somebody there right to have the advantageous plea because nowhere in the process does the defendant have more leverage. the prosecutor does not want to go to trial or extend those resources and is willing to plead in eppley bargain provides them with all kinds of options having
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charges dismissed, not be brought, except the recommended sentence if agreed to. at the trial those options are off the table the defendant doesn't have the leverage any more. the prosecutors have already spent those resources and trial and now there's nothing to offer me. and the defendant or you will get that to rubble increase for obstruction of justice and to exercise
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would be incredibly wrong to pressure people to do away with it. i talked to the criminal defense attorneys that said i do have regrets in my career. i should have encouraged my client to take a plea. instead he went to trial and got clobbered. trial is fine for me as a criminal defense attorney but i don't do the time. it is my client and if i had just encourage him to take the plea he would have
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gotten a much better deal than he did. prosecutors for more minutes but i don't want to do that. to summarize what is close to my heart i a committed to the innocence project talking about a horrible wrongs that have been done to win individual it is horrible. and in no lesser cents to society the true founder is
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that large is a double injustice. you may say judge, you are a stick in the mud. my wife and friends tell me that. [laughter] join the crowd. if there is anything the war for? the lot. in terms of reform. suggestions of by the cameras are a good idea on police. it is crucial that police and prosecutors that conduct a lineup should not know who the suspect is if they do they will allege and push the witness to that individual those are less subject to manipulation.
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open files to move then the direction the etf of interrogation is not constitutional values with that trial judges and the things that may lead to useful reform i don't want something that's too much rigidity but for there to be experimentation this last one will not take me long but i think it is sad today
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it has become a scapegoat for all the ways we have failed our disadvantaged communities. we have failed to provide opportunity, educational opportunities, a jobs and occupations and schools for a decent chance in life. but so much of what we find to criticize is simply a reflection of the larger difficulty but they are do without the criminal-justice system it would make a bad situation even worse we would not have safe streets more than we already do and
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then destroy more lives after 9/11 david talked to the criminal justice for the military tribunals and as they come back here from abroad they tend to respect the criminal-justice system more than any other. i urge you not to move from one extreme to the other but have a sense of balance please give american institutions and this one in particular a fair trial. thank you. [applause] >> we'll have a very brief second round.
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>> i never we should tear down the criminal-justice system but there are many areas it could happen but he says there is nothing to do about the fact but there are things we can do to keep them from being misshape and. if you have a lineup to save this very simple if they know who they are they will communicate to the victim. that kind of incremental a change can happen in these
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areas. having to do with memory and perception and that is wonderful and we agree on this point and instrumental change. i am so glad to hear he is on board. i am very pleased he will bring us together. [laughter] talking about reforms that i do not propose and i do not think we should endorse or do this plea bargaining but everything else they agree with. but i will come out to
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all of the defendants that they have misbehaved to have done far worse to be intimidated where they have concealed evidence but the total time the prosecutors spent behind bars is six days ken got nine days from 25 years he served five. one more prosecutor served one day per board doesn't happen they don't prosecute other prosecutors. it doesn't happen.
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qualified? i don't know but i am surprised it is so easy for judgment. if you seek qualified immunity in to seek some judgment, and nobody else gets one but if you are subject like up policemen or another officer is maliki have to wait to the end of trial and if prosecutors thought they should held someone responsible the
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exercise good judgment is to the ambiguous to go forward with the case or there are mitigating circumstances. we should not go forward with the case. there are many cases where prosecutors decline. now one makes prevented anecdote one of uses and pleased understand where there is a decline but they don't make the power plants for the highlight reels. they are rules.
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that is why the sentencing guidelines came into effect. we now have gone too far and now what we have that involves the united states that calls for guided discretion that eliminates those wild inconsistencies and lets them take the individual into account this is an example after swinging from one extreme to another guy blast the pendulum that arrives to strike the right balance and this is what happened here. maybe we can close on a
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it is a tremendous sight to see so many of you here in the world team center at the cleveland state university. when i say feel, you say burn. field. >> burn. >> deal. >> burn. >> po. >> burn. >> field. >> burn we are at a critical moment in our nation's history. and the fact that senator bernie sanders is answering the call to stand up for working-class folks and middle-class folks in this country to say enough is enough is enough is enough to tell those folks who are
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the working poor who work two and three jobs at a time and still can't make ends meet enough is enough is enough. for young people who are settled by debt in this country, senator sanders says enough is enough is enough. [applause] too many americans in this country are being deprived of healthcare. the senator says enough is enough is enough. [applause] and for the women in this country who are being deprived of the right to control their own bodies, senator sanders says enough is enough is enough. and ladies, can i just say this, we want our whole damn
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dollar. enough is enough is enough. well, what about a justice system that is unjust to african-americans and are hispanic brothers and sisters? enough is enough is enough. he will not be surprised to no that senator sanders has the racial justice plan that affirms the value of people of color and wants to do away with the types of violence that are raged against them physical, physical, political, legal, and economic, enough is enough is enough. senator sanders is running this race. he and misses sanders are running this race. the senator has four children, seven grandchildren. he wants them to inherit a
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world where they can live their greatest greatness. he is running this race for your children and your children and my children and my children. enough is enough is enough. wants everybody to be able to live their measure of the american dream. he is sick and tired of an economy that is rigged. enough is enough is enough. and i'm going to tell you something, folks. senator sanders can win this race. don't listen to the pundits. he can and he will win this race. he will run this race. when i think about senator sanders, think about public service for our time. he has been doing the work of the people's entire
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political career. he has been steady and his commitment to folks who live in this country. he is going to get it done. senator sanders held on his principles. he is going to get it done. so if all of us put a little extra on our ordinary, extraordinary will be able to happen in this country. i know it, and i believe it which is why i am. [applause] now, we need you all to do some very important things. each and every person in this room, you are a part of making the political revolution real command we have to get out here and make sure we register people to vote as we are out they're grown to five voting in great numbers and make it known that sen. bernie senator bernie sanders will be the next president
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of these united states of america. [applause] he is a man of principle, and i i applaud the senator for taking this home. so i want to leave you with three things. i believe that this creator of this great universe has given us to hands, one to reach forward and want to reach backward. where we can ask other folks to do more for us than we are willing to do for ourselves. and lastly in the words of my grandmother who was born in 1913, my grandmother could not read or write that she could count her money. she can't put money in the southern ladies bank and trust. when i asked my grandmother what is it take to be
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successful in life she says, all you need either three owes, the wishbone, the jawbone, and the backbone. the wishbone will keep you hoping and praying because hope is the motivator but the dream is the driver. he knows that the hope and the dream of every day citizens are wrapped in his leadership to push this country forward. the jawbone will give you courage to speak truth, the hottest places about. reserve for those that time of great moral crisis choose neutrality. we cannot be neutral. we will not be neutral.
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[applause] none of that means anything less you have a super franchise backbone. keeps a backbone. keeps a standing through all of our trials and tribulations and in this life we will go through some stuff that you cannot have a testimony without a test. we are being tested. so it's like when you have a good workout. the burning sensation you feel is proof that you are getting stronger. that is what senator sanders is doing for our party, and that is what he is doing for this nation.
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he is making a stronger. if you want a democratic democratic party that is super fierce and culture committed black hispanic, native american, asian, we must working get the vote out. we must feel the burn, cleveland. feel the burn, ohio, feel the burn america. when i say feel you say burn. feel. >> burn. >> po. >> burn. >> when i say feel, you say burn. >> feel. >> burn. >> feel. >> burn. the senator bernie sanders.
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let me also think the senator mike indo former senator prentice and former ohio democratic party chairman. let me also think the reverend for being with us this evening. let me begin my remarks in a somewhat somber way. in telling you what you already know, that as americans we are appalled, disgusted by the attack against the people of paris by the terrorist organization isys command i know that i speak for
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everyone here and everyone in our country when we send our condolences to the families who lost loved ones in that barbaric attack, and our prayers go out for speedy recoveries for the many hundreds who were injured. now is the time for developing a serious and effective strategy to destroy isys. now is not the time to achieve political talk or trying to take political advantage of this difficult moment. now is the time as president obama is trying to unite the
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world in an organized campaign against isi ss by bringing together all the countries who have common interest in defeating international terrorism, even countries that we have disagreements with. trying to bring together our european allies, france, germany, the united kingdom, and others along with russia and along with the muslim countries who are today face-to-face with isys. what we need is an international coalition, including iran and saudi arabia, jordan and kuwait,
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turkey, putting together this coalition is not going to be easy given the many hostilities and disagreements the sum of these people face. that's what they are trying to do, the support their efforts. let me also say that now is not the time for demagoguery and fear mongering. [applause] if you think about it from moment you understand that's what terrorism is about, trying to instill terror and fear into the hearts of people.
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and we will not let that happen. as americans we will not be terrorized. we will not live in fear. and i do have to tell you that i am disturbed by some of what i'm hearing from my republican colleagues command i will just say this , during these difficult times as americans we will not succumb to racism. [applause] we will not allow ourselves to the divided and succumb
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to islamic phobia. [applause] and when hundreds of thousands of people have lost everything, have nothing left but the shirts on the back, we will not turn our backs on the refugees from syria. [applause] we will do what we do best command that is be american fighting racism, fighting xenophobia command fighting fear.
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most importantly we will learn the lessons of history yesterday the chairman of the republican national committee stated, and i quote, never before have i seen an american president, meaning president obama, projects such weakness on the global stage. well, as many of you will remember back in 2,002 had a president, president bush. you remember president bush. [applause] we had a president, and he was very, very tough, but not very smart. [applause]
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the end it cheney and a lot of them, they said we should invade iraq. we should do it virtually alone. the result was 6,700 brave men and women from our country dead, hundreds of thousands of our best young people coming home with injuries, physical and emotional. many, many hundreds of thousands of iraqis dead and wounded. huge instability in the region command we are paying
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the price today for that instability and that chaos. i say to my republican colleagues, yes, he has got to be tough but not stupid. yes, we need to create a worldwide coalition that will defeat isi s, but no the united states of america must not be involved in perpetual warfare in the middle east. [applause]
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let me say something else. including many republicans, some of the media who think that because of this horrific attack that the only thing that we should focus on his defeating isi s. we will lead the world in defeating isys, but at the same time we will rebuild the disappearing middle class of this country.
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[applause] we are a great nation, and we can accomplish both goals. let me say a word about the campaign that we are waging. you know, about six months ago we began this campaign with no money, no organization, and very few people in ohio and arrest of the country knew who bernie sanders was. we have come a long way in six and a half months.
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we have brought out all over 300,000 people to rally like this all over america. we have hundreds of thousands of volunteers and every state in this country. and when the pundits and the experts, you know, you can't run a serious political campaign without a super pack, without raising money from corporations, we are doing it without a super pack.
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we don't want corporate money. we don't need billionaire money. we will when this on our own. [applause] and we will when this very simply as senator turner said a few moments ago enough is enough. country faces some very serious problems command the american people are catching on that establishment politics and establishment economics is not going to solve those problems. [applause]
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at a time when wall street and corporate america and large campaign donors have so much power, people instinctively understand that no president, not bernie sanders or anyone else can alone solve enormous problems that we face. what this campaign is about is not just electing a president. it is creating a political revolution. [applause]
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>> what that means is quite complicated. in the last election a year ago 53 percent of the american people didn't vote. 80 percent of young people didn't vote. vast majority of low income working people didn't vote. our job, and it is not an easy job, to reach out to tens of millions of americans who are working in many cases longer hours for lower wages, sometimes they can't afford there kids, afford to send there kids to college, our job is to reach out, to bring people together, black and white, hispanic, asian american, ganz straight.
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men and women and people born in this country, people who emigrated to this country because that when we allowed to divide we lose. let me fit together there is nothing we cannot accomplish that is what this campaign is about. [applause] we are the vast majority of the people in this country, and when we come together we can defeat the people with all of the money and with all of the power.
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now, i have been all over this country and given a lot of speeches, and one of the best complements that i have received came from a guy that i think was out of the west coast. you know, what i like about you is your treating us like we are intelligent people. in other words, what this campaign is about is not fancy gimmicks and me telling you all kind of jokes. can't do that without much of a sense of humor. i'm not going to your beautiful family and grandchildren. what i will tell you is simply lay on the table the most serious issues that they face our country.
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democracy is not with the media thinks it is, not a baseball game, does not not matter what the polls are, how much money race. democracy is about a simply talking about the issues we face. respectfully arguing about those issues and coming together to resolve those problems. remember, every problem that we face was caused by human decisions. every problem that we face can be overcome by better decisions. [applause]
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now, let me start off by talking about an issue that i have been talking about for a very long time command i am happy that now we are beginning to see more and more people discuss it, and that is the issue of the grotesque level of income and wealth inequality that exists in america today. we have got to put that issue right on the table. plain and simple in the united states today we have more income and wealth inequality than almost any major country on earth, and it is worse today than at any time since 1928. okay. this is the extent of the problem.
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one 10th of 1 percent owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent. more wealth than the bottom 40 percent today in america in the last two years the 14 wealthiest people in this country have seen their wealth increase by a hundred and 56 billion dollars, more wealth and is owned entirety in ohio, and vermont, all
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across this country command i see it as i travel, you got people who are not working one job for 40 hours , they are working two jobs, maybe three jobs. husbands are working, wires are working, kids are working all trying to cobble together the income that they need to sustain the family to buy healthcare, but guess the car, said the electric the. yet today and america 58 percent of all new income , 58 percent is going to the top 1 percent. [applause] so what this campaign is about simply stated millionaires and billionaires.
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sending our jobs to china when millions of people are in desperate need for good paying work here in america. [applause] they will not give, continue to give huge compensation packages to the ceos of large corporations when they cut the wages in the pensions and the healthcare. and let me just recognize some of our teamster friends who are here right here tonight. [applause] all over this country, all
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over this country a promise that was made to tens of thousands of workers in damaging and pensions is now been undermined. he will pass our legislation to make sure that those pensions that you are promised will not be cut. when we talk about what's going on america take a hard look at what we see around us. our economy is better than
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it was when george bush left office. and you know something our republican friends suffer from a very serious illness: the ship. they forget. if any of my republican friends are listening, try to overcome the ignition, let me remind you of where we were some years ago. my republican friends say we are only growing two, 250,000 jobs a month, not enough. they are right. then lose 800,000 jobs a
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month. [applause] my republican colleagues against suffering from this very serious illness amnesia and that is serious problem. but they forgot that when bush left office we had a record-breaking $1.4 trillion deficit. we cut that by two thirds. by the way, when bush left office etiquette and international system was on the verge of collapse. just in passing we might
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want to mention that. so, the truth is, we have made significant progress in the last seven years against unprecedented republican obstructionism, but there is another truth that we have got to layout, this is a harder truth. and that is for the last 40 years on the democratic president and republican president the great middle class of our country, once the end the of the entire world has, in fact, been disappearing. despite exploding technology and increased worker productivity, median family
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income today is almost $4,000 less than it was in 1999 and in inflation-adjusted dollars. we have millions of people, men and workers comment and women who are earning less money than was the case 30 or 40 years ago. that is the reality. so the question that all of us have got to ask ourselves is, how does it happen that when workers are producing more because of exploding technology they are earning less and working longer hours. that is a question we are going to answer. every month us government
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issues unemployment. what you don't see is that if you add to that 5 percent people who have given up looking for work were people who are working part-time when they want to work full-time, real unemployment is close to 10 percent. and here is something else that we virtually never discuss. that is the tragedy of youth unemployment in this country. i have some economists a couple of months ago to do a study for me.
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this isthis is what they found, and listen to this because it is really pretty significant. what they found is that for high school graduates, graduates, not dropouts. between the ages of 17 and 20 real unemployment and underemployment is 33 percent. 51 percent. why is this so significant? what the kids want? graduate high school, they want to stand up on their own two feet, get out of the house and start earning some money. theymoney. they want to become independent, start a career, become adults. but when half of the african-american kids in this country and in cities
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like cleveland are some may even be higher, when kids in this country are unable to stand on their own 2 feet and get out and get a decent job that things began to happen. and if anybody here thinks, if anybody here thinks there is not a direct correlation between outrageously high youth unemployment and the fact that we as a nation have more people in jail than any other country on earth you would be mistaken. what we tell you -- let me tell you what i think is the most common sense ideal that is out there, and that is instead of investing in jails and incarceration,
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for a heck ofa heck of a lot less money to send somebody to the university of ohio and put them in jail. and here is a promise. the united states will not have more people in jail in any other country. [applause] brothers and sisters, it is not only the grotesque level of income and wealth inequality it is the fact
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that in your state in my state and all over this country you have people working longer hours for lower wages and there working at wages that do not sustain themselves. in vermont and in ohio they're are people who are working 40 hours a week and then they have to go to the food shelf in order to get food to feed their families. the truth is, wages in america are too damn low. the minimum wage of seven and a quarter in our is a starvation wage.
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there is no rational economic reason that women are making $0.79 on the dollar compared to men it is sexism, not acceptable. let me say a word about family values now, you have heard many republicans expressing deep, deep concern about families, especially very wealthy families might contribute to the campaign. but they are very passionate about family values. and everyone here knows what they need by family values.
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a woman who has just given birth that she has to be separated a week or two after giving birth from her baby. that is not a family value. [applause] [applause] it is not a family value to tell a woman that she has to go back to work in order to earn the necessary income she needs to sustain that family, because there is no additional income coming in and here's the good news. the good news is that in the congress and the senate and in the house there is a very strong piece of legislation, the family and medical leave act. we have got 19 sponsors and the senate introduced, senator
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gillibrand in the house we have over 100 introduced by congresswoman rosa pallone and what this legislation says and what i strongly believe is that in america we will guarantee every family three months of paid family and medical leave. [applause] [applause] we will guarantee those families two-thirds of the income they were earning and we do that all for a cause -- cost of about $1.38 a week. not a bad price. $1.38 a week. [applause] my hope is that every candidate
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for president, especially those who talk about family values will, on board and support that legislation. [applause] and when we talk about the economy, and when pollsters go out and call you up and say what is on the minds of the american people, always, always, always the answer is jobs and the economy because people understand how volatile the economy is. they understand if you are 55 years of age you go to work tomorrow and your boss could say thanks for 30 years of work joe but we are replacing you with somebody half your age and half your income, and they understand that if you are a college graduate it is hard to get work
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commensurate with your education. [applause] anthey understand if you are a high school kid, a graduate or high school graduate or dropout is fine to hard any work in any wage so that is why in my view given the unemployment, the underemployment, the outrageous level of youth unemployment, the federal government must undertake a massive federal jobs program to put our people back to work. [applause] [applause] we should not be firing teachers and childcare workers. we should be hiring people. [applause]
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and when our infrastructure, our roads, bridges, wastewater plants our rail system, our airports in their levees and dams in many states are collapsing we can create millions of decent paying jobs rebuilding our infrastructure and that's what i intend to do. [applause] and by the way, and let me say this very clearly to folks in ohio. when we talk about jobs and creating decent paying jobs it is preventing the loss of good-paying jobs because of disastrous trade policy. [applause]
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you are looking at a former congressman and a senator who will probably tell you he voted against nafta, against cafta, against trade relations. [applause] and i will help lead the effort to defeat this disastrous transpacific partnership. [applause] whether corporate america likes it or not, they are going to have to start investing in the united states of america creating jobs here, not just in china and in vietnam. [applause]
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when we use words like greed and fraud and dishonesty and arrogance, these are just a few of the adjectives we can use to describe wall street. [applause] the simple truth of the matter is, everybody here knows the greed and the recklessness and the illegal behavior on wall street drove this country into the worst economic downturn since the great depression and what happened is that millions of people lost their jobs, and some of them have not found new jobs. many of them lost their homes and many people lost their life savings making retirement that much more difficult.
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we need a banking system in this country that is part of the productive economy that provides affordable loans to small and medium-sized businesses so they can create jobs. [applause] we do not need a banking system in which the sixth largest financial institution in this country has assets equivalent to 58% of the gdp of america. six financial institutions which issue two-thirds of the credit cards, one third of the mortgages. when you have financial
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institutions in wall street that have so much economic power, so much political power during the effort to deregulate wall street which i help lead the opposition to, they spent -- wall street spent $5 billion over a 10 year period on lobbying and campaign contributions. when you have an entity like wall street which has so much economic and political power, which is making so many campaign contributions to super pacs, democrats and republicans, the answer for what we have to do is obvious and that is reestablished last eagle. [applause]
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if a financial institution, three out of the four largest financial institutions in this country today are bigger now than they were when we bailed them out because they were too big to fail. my view is that if a financial institution is too big to fail, it is too big to exist. [applause] now some of you may know that i recently introduced legislation to take marijuana out of the controlled substance list. [applause]
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now i did that, i did that for a number of reasons but most importantly over the last many many years, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people have been arrested for possessing marijuana and they have police records. and when you have got a police record, it makes life difficult. it makes it harder to go out and get a job. it makes it harder to find housing, to get decent credit and in some cases people ended up in jail. so i find it very interesting in terms of the broken criminal justice system, i find it interesting that hundreds of thousands of people have criminal records for possessing marijuana but not one ceo one wall street has a criminal record.
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important and i'd can never answer that because all of the issues are so terribly important that there's one issue, one issue which impacts all of the other issues and that is five years ago the supreme court in one of the worst decisions ever made in the history of the supreme court by a 5-4 vote on the citizens united case. [applause] by a 5-4 vote the supreme court said the wealthiest people in this country, they said you already own much of the economy and now we are going to allow you to purchase the united states government and that is what they are trying to do right now. now i am very proud to tell you i'm the former chairman of the
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u.s. senate committee on veterans affairs and we worked very hard to protect the interests of our veterans. [applause] and as is a member of the veterans committee i have talked to some wonderful people who fought in world war ii, korea and vietnam all the way through iraq and afghanistan and these people are putting their lives on the line and of course many of our soldiers never came home. to defend american democracy. american democracy is not about billionaires buying elections. [applause] when you have a situation where the second wealthiest family in this country and the cup brothers and a few of their friends -- you have heard about
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the koch brothers. okay. when a handful of families can spend some $900 billion in an election cycle, more money than either the democratic or republican party will spend, that is not democracy. that is all a and we are going to end that. [applause] so here is another promise that i make to you. no nominee of mine to the supreme court will get that position unless he or he is loud and clear in saying they will vote to overturn citizens united [applause]
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and furthermore when we talk about democracy, together we are going to stand up and tell republican legislatures they will not get a way with suppressing the vote. [applause] they are not going to tell people of color, old people, young people that they cannot vote because they don't have the voter i.d.. [applause] they are not going to force people to wait in line for hours in order to exercise their democratic right to vote.
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[applause] we are going through a constitutional amendment or some other way, we are going to reach the day when simply and straightforwardly anybody 18 years of age or older has the right to vote, and that discussion. [applause] [applause] and of republican governors don't have the guts to participate in free and fair elections, these cowards should get another job. [applause] our job is to create an america in which we have not one of the
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lowest voter turnouts in the industrialized world, but one of the highest. [applause] our job is to make it easier for people to participate in the political process, not harder. [applause] and when we talk about where we are in the nation, all of you know that we are living in a very competitive global economy and in that context it makes zero sense to me that we have hundreds of thousands of right and qualified young people who want to go to college, who should be in college but can't go to college for one reason and
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want you all to appreciate what that is about. it's telling every kid in cleveland and in burlington vermont that no matter what your income, the income of your family, if you study hard, if you do your schoolwork seriously, you will be able to get a college education. [applause] and we are also going to deal with the outrage of millions of people having high interest rates on their student debt. [applause] it makes no sense to me that people are paying six, eight,
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10, 12% interest on student debt when you can refinance a home for three or 4%. [applause] and that's what we are going to do. we are going to allow people to get the lowest possible interest rate they can find. now, providing free tuition to public colleges and universities at a lower interest rate is an expensive proposition. we are going to pay for that by imposing a tax on wall street speculation. [applause]
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when wall street is the result of their greed and recklessness clashed they came running to the congress and begging us to bail them out. now it is their turn to help bail out the middle class. [applause] and when we talk about our responsibilities as adults, as citizens and parents, one of those responsibilities is to make sure that we leave future generations it planet that is healthy and habitable. [applause]
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now the debate is over. climate change is real. [applause] climate change is already causing devastating problems and we have a moral responsibility to work with countries around the world to transform our energy system away from fossil fuels to energy efficiency and sustainable energy. [applause] and if we do not do that what the scientists tell us is that ibm did this century, this planet will be up to
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five degrees warmer fahrenheit than it is today. more drought, more floods, we have a moral responsibility to make sure that does not happen. [applause] and when they talk about where we are as a nation we should also read nice that today the united states of america is the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care to all people as they write. [applause] now i was on the committee that wrote the affordable care act.
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[applause] but we can do better and we must do better. [applause] today in america, 29 million people still have zero health insurance and many more are underinsured but with large deductibles and co-payments. if every other major country on earth can guarantee health care to all of their people in a much more cost-effective way than we do health care, the united states of america can do that also. [applause]
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let me jump to an issue which is also very much on our minds, and that is as a nation the understanding that we have got to put in and to institutional racism. [applause] [applause] and in that regard i'm not just talking about a very sick individual who months ago for example walked into a church bible study class in charleston, south carolina and killed nine
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people because of the color of their skin and i'm not talking about -- it's always unbelievable to think about this that we have hundreds of organizations in this country whose sole function is to push forward hatred, hatred against african-americans, hatred against immigrants, hatred against catholics, that's what they do but i'm not just talking about that. what i'm talking about is the fact that in this country we have seen much too often too many african-americans unarmed, killed by the police when in custody. [applause]
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you know the names and as well as i do whether it's sandra blander michael brown or walter scott or freddie gray or tamir rice or timothy russell. [applause] i do not want to read about and you did not want to read about children being shot because they have a toy gun. [applause] you and i do not want to continue to see over 100 ballots being -- 100 bullets being shot into a car. [applause]
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now some of you know i am the former mayor of the largest city in the state of vermont, burlington, vermont. [applause] and in that capacity i had the privilege of working with our police department and let me tell you what i think most of you know. most police officers are honest and hard-working and do a very difficult job. [applause] the truth is, it is very hard to be a police officer today. many of them are unpaid -- underpaid and they have crazy schedules, but that may also be very clear and that is when any police officer, like any other public official breaks the law must be held accountable. [applause]
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so my pledge to you tonight is that no president will work harder than i in ending institutional racism in this country and in reforming, reforming a very very broken criminal justice system. [applause] a lot to talk about and let me just mention a few of the things that happened. we have got to demilitarize our police departments. [applause] so that they do not look like, and if you watch television you
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say -- see local police officers that look like they are invading the people they are supposed to be serving. a good police department, and their many of them, are part of the community, are trusted by the community, are not seen as a foreign invading force. [applause] when he police departments that reflects the diversity of the communities they serve. [applause] we need new rules for the allowable use of force, lethal force is a last resort, not the first. [applause]
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we need to end the absurdity and i have introduced legislation to do this. corporations making profits by building and running prisons and detention centers. we need to invest in drug courts and medical and mental health intervention. [applause] substance addiction should be seen as an illness and treated as such. [applause]
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we need to and minimum sentencing. and very importantly, we need to develop, which we do not have today, a path back from person to civil society. and when we talk about issues facing our country, i want everybody here not to forget that there are are 11 million people in this country today who are undocumented, who are living in fear and living in the shadows. those people must have the
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rights of legal status. we must have comprehensive immigration reform. [applause] and we must move toward a path toward citizenship. [applause] what i hope that we can do as a nation and as a people is to think big, not small. many people don't know this but we today are the wealthiest nation in the history of the world. most people don't know that
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because almost all of the wealth is resting in the hands of a few our job is to say that as the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, with an enormously productive workforce, with some great universities and scientists and teachers, there is nothing if we put our minds to it that we cannot accomplish. don't get yourself involved in a worldview which says do we cut education by 2% or races by 1%? that is not the dynamics that we should be looking at. our job is the same that in the wealthiest country on earth why isn't a situation existing in which every parent goes off to work, his or her kids are in the best quality pre-k and childcare
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in the world. [applause] y. can we do it? tell me why. we can do it. tell me why we cannot do with many other countries do to make sure that everybody in the country has the ability is able to get all of the education they need regardless of their income. why income. y. can we do it? [applause] please don't tell me that in this country we have to have the highest rate of childhood poverty of almost any major country on earth. don't tell me we have to have that. don't tell
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has to be the only major country to provide health care or to provide paid family and health health care medical leave. [applause] don't tell me that the united states has to continue having more income and wealth inequality than any other major country on earth that have corporations that make billions when they are paying almost nothing in taxes. don't tell me that is the country we have to be. [applause] but do tell me that we can have the best health care system in the world for our people. do tell me that they we can lead the world in transforming how
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energy systems and combating climate change. [applause] do tell me that health care workers in the united states will not be losing the pensions they were provided. [applause] and that our seniors and people with disabilities will in fact see an increase in their social security benefits. [applause] do tell me that together we will and racism and sexism and. [applause]
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>> and so the bill takes a step to recognizing. it's really the nondevelopmental aspect that's important. not so much whether something is sold more than 50% of the time to a commercial customer. i think that's something that we are going to think through and define that in a way our contractors can embrace and understand in the years coming, and i'm probably getting close to the end of my time. along those lines, obviously the move toward open system approaches.
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that's an important initiative. it's always fascinating to me the forces about how they approach open systems. they approach it exactly opposite which is perhaps, you know, the most predictable thing in the world, air force has more of a topdown approach, more of an inside-out approach. i tried to compare the two because they are so different. the air force asserted that the two approaches really get to the same place and they are compatible. hopefully, knock on wood that that's true, because at the end of the day, open standards, that's going to be a real problem for industry. and we don't have q&a and i can't put anyone from industry on the spot. that's an issue that we really need to explore going forward.
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we want to embrace open systems. i think it's a key to where we want to go, but it needs to be something that industry needs to be bought into or whip-sawed for various parts of the department of the defense. obviously that ties back to intellectual property, which is a key issue both in terms of traditional industry and very much nontraditional industry that is sometimes captured with the phrase silicon valley. although it's much broader than that, essentially referring to companies that haven't worked with dod in the past. the last thing i want to touch on, i can't really dig too deep to it but it's this idea that our friend and colleague from great britain through acquisition through services. something that's been
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controversial in the united states and you can wander about territory about leasing and can get very messy, but there is a lot of potential there. one of the more remarkable things that has happened is we had a major entrance, which is space launch. i don't take sides but the fact that it's a competition is fairly remarkable and something new and different under the sun which you don't get allot particularly in washington. really a lot of ways enabled by acquisition approach, space launch is a service and nasa really committing to that approach, really made that new possible, gave it a foot hole that could be gotten hold of and gotten us to a place where we i think proposals are due that's been competed in a very long
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time, which is, again, something under the sun. so there's a lot of positive and encouraging trends right now. i actually take a little bit of an issue with some of, if you, will rhetoric that's out there about how the system is getting progressively worse. that's not true. cost growth has not been occurring. but there has been improvement. it's not a continuously upward explosion as greg was saying, it's not a continuing explosion of cost growth. we are making progress and there are some really encouraging. we use green shoes. we need to keep with it and keep the dialogue going and keep working on it and what is also
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most encouraging and grounds for optimism that there's priority in acquisition reform and priority administration, priority, if you will, in broad community and in the press. keeping the effort going and keep everyone talking to be the, is where we need to be, thank you. [applause] >> thank you so much. our next speaker is christine fox. she was also the director of cape at the offices of secretary of defense. we are looking forward to your remarks.
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>> well, thank you very much. i think everyone in this room knows how important this topic is at this time in our history, so i really appreciate the opportunity to be part of the lexington series on this topic. as it's clear from the talks today everybody also knows how we have tackled defense reform and, of course, we will continue to do so. while we have con received to design fielded amazing capabilities, i think it's pretty clear that we also need to evolve. now, as others have suggested today, i'm in the camp that suggests everything doesn't need to evolve, ships, and planes and large armored vehicles, they need to be developed carefully, tested and they need to be procured with rig use processes.
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while it's not very popular to say it these days, i think that oversight is necessary for those processes. i hope everything wrote down ken miller's list. to try to make the process efficiently and effectively for what we need to do. we can't throw the process out. at the same time, it's pretty clear that we need new ways to respond to the pressure on our technological edge that we are all feeling. the world has changed. technology has changed and times have changed an we need to be thinking about that in addition to the way we think about evolving and improving our acquisition process for major systems. in dod budget, there's an
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attempt to protect to the degree possibility snt and r&d investments. we won't be fielding new programs that are currently designed or in the process any time soon. we also face many new threats from our potential advisaries and capabilities. i think the question is how do we develop capabilities across the broad spectrum with no money and no time, and that really requires us to think about at least part of the acquisition process. i think we need new concepts for those technology that is maybe don't need to last for 30 years or don't need the kind of complex development associated with planes and ships an armored vehicles. at apl we are working some concepts like this and i am going to throw them out, they
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are ideas, not plans, they aren't the solutions but a solution. so the fist one we are working on is the concept we are calling tech on the shelf. to understand this concept i need to ask you guys to think about a movie. i want you to think about batman. don't tell me you haven't scene it. bruce wayne goes down to wayne enterprises and he's showing him all the military and bruce wayne looks around and he sees an entirely new set of applications for those very technologies, and he goes around and picks out the ones that he wants and asked
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that they be painted black. okay. what is we in the national security world dod had a basement. what if in that basement we had prototypes but that we are living and breathing prototypes that we pulled off the shelf, maintained, upgraded and i think critically importantly that we deploy and tested through excerpts and xers with -- experiments and exercises, what if those technologies could continue to advance over time even though they would not be procured in large numbers, at least not right away. now at some point hopefully because we start making sensible decisions about what our national security needs really have and not in response to some terrible crisis.
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the defense budget will be set to a level we can ones again afford to start filling new capabilities. now envision that future world where we have our basement and now we go to that basement and we know exactly which prototypes to fill out and start fielding because we've tested them, we know that they are updated, we know that the operators are waiting for them and the operators have told us which ones of those things in our basement are the most important because we've been excerpting with them and we start producing them. if we could do that, we could save back the time that we are losing today but not being able to do it because we have so many constraints on our budget in our system. okay. so that's one idea. now what if we were to couple that idea with advances in added manufacturing which everybody here is also very aware of.
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that's another area in technology that's going at this incredible rate, so now you mary prototypes in basement that in the future they could be produced on demand. i think that would be a paradigm shift. we could provide them when and where they were needed efficiently and effectively. production on demand. okay, am i -- are these the solutions? no, of course, not. these are ideas. as we think about defense acquisition reform, we understand as ken so well said, we know how to work on them and frankly we produce pretty awesome stuff through it, and we need to continue to produce those things and we need to
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continue to make that system efficient, but inch and away, not sure it's going to propel us into this new world where we need new game-changing capabilities maybe that don't last for 30 years but that give operators technological edge that's applicable in today's world. again, i thank you very much for the opportunity to participate in this important topic, so thank you. [applause] >> i heard that dr. laplante is in the room. thank you. nice to see you, sir. thank you for coming. the next speaker is william laplante, if you're ready. >> i'm always ready. >> i figured you might be.
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he has been a member of the defense as well. >> i was told i was the 16th speakers and i thought, man, it takes me five minutes to get through introductions, certainly my introduction takes a long time. i'm not going to talk about acquisition form unless you ask me to. very interesting. a couple of reporters that were with me on the plane. they are still sleeping. they can't hold up for this. let me tell you what's going on. first thing that's going on the u.s. stuff is incredible high
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demand. the good news is it used to be a very short conversation. you want that, no. we used to have very efficient conversations. now we have very inefficient long conversations, we will try and it's a very laborous process. we need to do something about it. it's urgent for the following reasons. number one, i said in washington our acquisition program is broken, we can't do everything right, everybody is bad, blah, blah, overseas you guys have the best stuff, you help us sustain it and there's nobody else, it's unbelievable. on the other hand, they are fighting wars, the saudi and emirates. they are fighting yemen.
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they are having issues of isr, uae says we wouldn't be able to do what we are doing if it wasn't being associated with the united states. by the way, they are doing the whole job themselves. i mean, we are helping a little bit with tanker support. we have their own tankers. most of the tankers are their own, doing their own uav flying, their own ammunition. here is the thing, they need more. guess who is over there selling stuff? i don't know a place called china. guess how many uav's sell selling over there? how about armed uav. are they as good as ours? no. it's kind of we have the apple
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store. apple wins the customers but not just with product but customer service. you know, my daughter is going to be an apple person for life because of how they treated her, okay. right next to the apple store, which has the long line outside it is another store has opened up and is selling apple products but they're really not apple products but they don't really like it. i have my phone and took pictures of displays in dubai. it just looks like one. j31. i walked up to the model of it, other than the two engines it's at 35. is it really 35, probably not, of course. but they're doing the same thing with ua drk's, how much of this is bluster and how much is not, i don't know. partners are saying, you know what, at least if i buy the stuff, if it works a third of the time, at least i have
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something. now how much of that is bluster, i don't know. our industry partners are saying the same thing. they are saying we had one group i met yesterday with a bunch of mid-level suppliers, they are having to send jobs overseas to get over export issues. we are having to manufacture and do stuff overseas. this is a problem and we need to fix this. we have to ask ourselves what do we want the middle east to look like ten years from now in terms of capability. do we want them to use link 16, do we want them to be fighters mq9's. yes, that's the issue. i think it's an urgent of issue. you're welcome to do it. but i think it's imperative and
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i was really struck by it, and again, those guys are at war. we talked with many countries over there including jordan, obviously saudi arabia, united emirates. some of them were more polite than others and others more direct. industry said the same thing. i'm going back to washington to talk about reform, i'll talk about this. this is something we need help in educating the congress, the media. we have to educate ourselves. now -- make no mistake. there's a reason why it's hard for us to sell our products overseas, that we make it hard. we are concerned about keeping our best technology for us. that's understandable and it's kind of once you make the
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decision once to let a technology out i can't undo the decision. here is the thing, we better be consistent and transparent because it's also the uncertainty that's killing us. if you're entering a process to try to get approval of something that you may not get approval for a year and a half and you're sitting there saying, okay, i'm in line at the apple store and i look at the line, i look next to me there's no line there and half price. i know the stuff sucks but maybe i'll get lucky. that's the situation so we need your help. that's what i wanted to say. i wouldn't say at the beginning. are you taking questions? are people taking questions? no? whatever you want to do. acquisition reform. good. let's do more. let's do more. it's not rocket science.
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we know what we need to do. all requirements firm, you know, set the program up right, have a robust industrial base, have a strong government team, don't go chasing like a squirrel. i'm actually a data guy, you know. plural of anecdole. i'm sorry that that's what the data says, but it says that. ocs is going up. on net effect, the prices of
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costs are coming down. our programs kpp's, you know, acat1's, basically requirements, 95%. where we need to do work we need to develop things faster. that's the truth. there's not much more to it than that. so if you want to help us with awees qición, help us while focusing on the right thing, focus on speed, we need to do things faster, but we can't do speed at the expense of competition. sometimes the fastest, the easy button is to go full source. necessarily you want to keep competition. we want to do commercial. commercial is great, but remember if we are buying a commercial so can anybody else. at some point you don't buy everything commercial because you don't want our stuff
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available to commercial. there's always the pursuit of it, making buying commercial practical. we all in our lives have accidentally paid too much for something, maybe not accidentally, but purposely. i have to get my haircut in a two-hour block. i know, it's fine. just leave it alone. driving home over to get some thing, doesn't start. crap. i get a jump, i get it home, i
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go how can i get the battery fixed. i have to go on a trip tomorrow morning. i have to be doing this and this. i have a busy job. triple a. triple a will come and bring a battery. if i have them do it. okay. so i called them up and they came by and the guy talked about the redskins. good guy. i don't know how much it was. 150. i couldn't do that. but i didn't care. i got the thing done. i couldn't do that in my job. we have to decide when we are talking about commercial, you know, what are we willing to accept as a society. i'll say one other thing and i'll stop. i'm not talking about -- he's one of our potential suppliers. i'm talking about what he's doing with different companies.
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most geeks follow, so i always ask the question of people, what he's trying to do with landing? he's trying to close business case to go to mars to join matt damon. okay. that's good. i know people that are much smarter than me in space that don't believe it's going to work he's doing it anyway. how many times did he try to land? four. he puts a tweet out right afterwards and he says 0-4, rockets are tricky things. close but no cigar. do i think he's going to pull it off? i do. imagine if it was the united states government. lets take the department of defense that's supposed to be the far-out reaching, they would
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try it twice and quietly say they are stopping it. same thing. it would not be considered a success. it would have been considered a failure. if we had done it in the air force, done it once an igb investigation, the business case has a crazy idea. am i saying that we should be doing things like that in the government, no, it's too risky for us to do. what i'm saying is our attitude for what we do, we have to check it. we have to check the attitude about the car battery. we say we want commercial and risk-taking, we don't behave that way. some of the same people, institutions that say that on monday, on tuesday are blasting because some commercial price went up. so -- that's a thought i would like to leave you with. yeah, acquisition reform is great, commercial is great, you know. let's do it, let's do other
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transactional. it's great. let's remind ourselves what's important. i'll stop. that was not prepared. i made it up on the plane. and don't call me -- >> how are you going to change the system given the congressional requirements, given the number -- [inaudible] >> are you talking within the context of just in general? [inaudible] >> my first half of my talk was mfs. what somebody asked us at the secretary when she had a press in dubai, would you need somebody at the white house to coordinate this? that's -- we are talking about whole government issue here. we have the state department
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involved. we have commerce and multiple parts of department of defense all for reasons you can understand when it's explained to you, but the net effect of all of it is -- is very frustrating. now, we can decide as a country that it's okay. i'm not kidding when i say. we will let the market play out and if the chinese, i'm not trying to scare anybody, pick another country that it's okay if their stuff gets sold, that's fine. i don't think that's right for industrial base, i don't think it's right -- we don't fight wars by ourselves, guys. we fight them with coalitions. that to me -- this is an urgent issue we need to solve. yes, one more question. [inaudible] >> i like the unfriendly ones. those are the fun ones. [inaudible]
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>> yeah. >> what's changed? >> i don't know that anything has changed. and i don't know what happened with israel say in the '67 war. my guess is it went almost to the president. here is the thing, can we do this without the involvement of the president. we can do but why do we have to have the secretary of defense be the program manager. i think we can do this but without going to the leadership of the country. that's where the stuff is going to go. that's where it's going to go. yeah. okay. thanks. >> thank you very much. i appreciate you for coming. [applause] >> mackkenzie, are you ready to come up? principal defense adviser to
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across the largest federal agencies. then there's another one which is more of the front end of the acquisition review number three. and this is an area again sort making sure the defense department is using as a customer, as a beneficiary to congresses love and adoration in this regard some of the things that were given to it or possibly new. processes and procedures here again if you have come up here today more operational prototyping, risk reduction programs. what do these look like, what has to change to make it more successful. the definition of the defense program itself needs to change in this regard. what about non-mcleary changes and tweeting that law? not everything of course need to
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be set in stone forever. there times when the two sons of even the best intentions. that leads me to get off my top three of the five to the final sort of point and indicators over congress is going to go next year. the senate armed service committee has been undertaking this 30 years of goldwater-nichols reform hearing series. once the bill was complete essentially a couple months ago they launched this review. the intention is to finish it a genuine. shortly before the president's budget comes over the first monday of february but probably even before the new session of congress begins next year. this is an organizational review but also a process forget and it is certainly, it's trying to cover everything and is also trying to look at 30 years later, by most metrics goldwater-nichols has been a
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success but there've been unintended consequences and there's certain things that need to be rolled back today. these hearings do with of course defense secretary gates. there's a couple of themes identified by the ranking member and the chairman, chairman mccain, what are they can't get after as part of this effort? there are six enduring principles come to of which apply to this topic. one is providing for more efficient defensive management and another is enhancing innovation and accountability in defense acquisition. where are they going? we have some insight from secretary gates in his hearing. the question i think will remain open even taking into account whether 2016 bill went, find a striking the right balance between the armed services, something that i know makes some people happy and you. there were problems when the services have their own acquisition authorities to lead to greater centralization of oversight but that our problems in the minds of the chairmen and ranking member when the pendulum
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swung the other way. so now the goal is to find a better balance between centralization and decentralization. as i conclude i will just summarize again, this year new authorities, new processes, new procedures. next is going to be on implementation and oversight. in about a year back will invite us back and i will review how they did. thanks. [applause] -- mac will invite us back. >> our next speaker is the former senior vice president for washington operations lockheed martin. is also was, he's also the democratic staff director for the house defense appropriations subcommittee with former congressman murphy and also the other sector of the of the army in the clinton administration. looking forward to your remarks. >> i know my role. i think i'm the last speaker,
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and i can't repeat anyone and i have to be short. i'll just start by saying i have, i will endorse remarks of byron gallon and a splash of been great in there. i'd like to maybe talk about something that has been talked about yet. you can't find a topic that's very difficult with this is to improve and a lot of really good ideas and excellent talent. i thought i would talk about congress and the reform act efforts there. -old appropriator. 20 some years in the committee, if you go back, if you find a full committee office in the capital, you go look and there's all the hearing record going back from the beginning of the committee which is in 1800. the very first hearing that he had is about a lock and dam 21, whatever it was, that the army corps of engineers was building
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and making something, and another canal somewhere where there was a cost overrun and they were giving them hell about the cost overruns, we've got to reform the system. i think all of you who are involved in acquisition reform, you a full careers if you for sure because this is a never ending, not a battle, a continuous process. and also the issues on cosgrove and government spending are going to do with us forever. -- cost growth. it doesn't mean, a couple people in this room or member really in my time in appropriations, killed a couple programs and we were not happy with this and. sometimes we rewarded them because they were doing good work. this is not a new phenomenon. it's with us and it will be with us forever. if you look at the congressional reform efforts, let's say the modern ones in the last 20 years or so, you know, i can have a
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hard time finding real big success. and i think nothing against the people at all for all well intended. i think what happens, for example, i think the last, i won't name names, the last bill started out pretty strong but by the time the process ended with all of the discussion from many of the people in this room, for instance, and with all the differing viewpoints just today of, it's incredibly complex subject. there's a different views on this thing. and when congress tries to pull all that together and get a rational process, frankly, i don't think they do a very good job. and, unfortunately, my own view is that much of the reform we've seen is have the good half bad, maybe more red tape than anything else, a little less which is not good in my view.
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it gets back to that time is money point which would be my bottom line as well. i think is really one thing that is not understood by this community and not understood by the congress about how process and the delays that come from, and i learned as an industry, having teams put together, having subcontracted put together, all engineering staffs altogether waiting for a process to kind of come through, through that huge recession cycle that happens because all these steps in that spaghetti chart come at a think we've all seen the spaghetti chart of the acquisition process, that is huge money. and by the way, the contractor will we do that money over time because nothing is free in this business. so to me what i'd like to say something very simple. i talked to my former staff
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about this. they rolled her eyes but i said look, why don't you go to the ill go to the ill and sick instead of all these little tweets to the system and getting more competition here at all the different processes that you want to invent, how about just saying, mr. secretary, give us a plan a year from now to cut the time it takes for major acquisitions by a third. just show us what you will do with it. what would you cut out of the system? what kind of savings would you get? and leave it up to the experts to actually come up with a system that might really change things. i think that's really what industry would actually like to see if he really got in the background of the industry, associations and so forth. that's the kind of change that would really wake up the system. and, unfortunately, i don't see that happening anytime soon. i will say that the spaghetti chart as the call of the acquisition process will scare the dickens out of silicon valley and anybody else who wants to try to get into this
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game. i've had personal discussions in my time with industry folks from fortune 50 companies who have looked at coming into defense. they said, man, we look at the process, there is no way we are jump way we are jumping into. then they would come to us, at the time of lockheed martin, and go can we team with you, can you show us how to get through this incredible process? because they know they're going to fail. they know they would be expensive. something folks who kind of look at that as the golden towel of maybe the next generation -- golden towel -- i think you'll be mistaken because i don't think they will come. i think another thing that has been talked love it is the consistency of departmental strategy, acquisition strategy. that's a tough one. i get it. the problem is assisted
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secretaries change. they change quickly, and boy, can they change the nature of the program overnight in terms of what we were planning versus what they want. i'll give you one example. it's an old one now. presidential helicopter. i won't name names but the assistant secretary back then the road the rfp, which is -- five assistant secretary earlier than when the decision to terminate happened, said i want off the shelf. i don't want development. this will be cheap, 85% solution. it's just a helicopter. we will protect it but we need to -- this will be off the shelf, we are going to do it. that's how it was one. that's not how it ended up. of the little things, you know, and this is not meant to criticize because i think these
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are just what happened. the white house comes in and says we need to harden certain systems in there. we need 360 degrees rotating seats so the president can have meetings inside. just doing that added incredible way to the system because the seats are not cheap. they are custom-made. carpet had to be thicker. all kinds of things like that. small things. but then things like the white house photographer came up and said i don't like the rivets next to the door. it wrecks the photo op. so we need to move that strut back out of the way so we have a clean, you know, view of the camera. well, i think all of you know, you move one strut, and we did a by the way, one struck into the guts of the helicopter, you are moving the ball and your redesign it. end of the day, we had another
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rotor blade for the weight. we had to redesign a whole transmission. it was a new helicopter. and this was done for all good reasons, but that's very much why we had the cost growth in that system. again, people at the beginning of the process have made the decisions set the parameters come were not at the end. it's a fact of life for our system. i don't know how you change that. you can try to educate people, but everyone has a different come and i fear, for instance, the folks, many of the folks who are now in place in the structure decision-makers, they are not going to be there when many of these systems they are making decisions for future secretaries, many secretaries into the future, i kind of guarantee one thing. it will change as the thing goes
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for. it's a dynamic, tough, interesting process. i congratulate everyone in this report number one states state in there, but also really you really see the dynamics of how complex, how difficult this process is. there's a lot of good thinking here and there's also a lot of just good will toward trying to do the right thing. i would conclude industry. industry gets a bad rap sometimes but definitely is trying to pull the weight of cost reduction and delivering more with less. so thanks very much. [applause] >> thank you very much. that concludes our program. i'd like to thank all the speakers for the outstanding hesitations and doing a wonderful job getting things on schedule. it was a very good for them. constance of the lexington step organize another great event for
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us. thank you, constance and thank you for the good lunch. we will have video of this forum post on a website soon. the formal presentations we've received we will circulate to you can also put them on our website. and we welcome any ideas you have for future events, future guest blogs, as articles on our website and elsewhere. and thank you much for participating. have a great weekend and good as you, jack. thank you for coming. [inaudible conversations] >> up next on c-span2, cia director john brennan talks with the militant group i suspect -- isis. >> attorney general loretta lynch testifies at a justice department oversight hearing.
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she's expected to get questions about last friday's terrorist attacks in paris and assyrian refugees being allowed into the u.s. we have live coverage from the house issued committee at 10 a.m. eastern on c-span3. later a senate panel looks at the relationship between the federal government and state and local law enforcement. the senate judiciary subcommittee hearing is live at 2:15 p.m. eastern also on c-span3. >> who will cia director john brennan warned that friday's attacks in paris or not they quote one off event in of the militant group isis has other coordinated care and tax plan. director brennan spoke at a global security event hosted by the center for strategic and international studies. >> it's a real privilege to welcome john brennan. i've had the privilege of working with john on and off for
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20 years. of course he is the director of the central intelligence agency. i don't know that anyone is better prepared or equipped for this job than john. john joined the agency 35 years ago, and so imagine having someone who is so deeply schooled in the foundation of this is critical agency that is at front line for us every day. and he has been leading these last two years, but he spent five years in the white house before he got there. so this is a very long time for anyone, he's doing an exceptional job. i feared because of the events of the weekend that we might not have him this morning, but i'm grateful, john, that you're able to come. i know he hasn't slept much for the last three days a week delighted he is a. would you all please would you
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applause welcome john brennan, please. [applause] >> thank you very much, john. thank you for those kind words as well as on the invitation to invite me to speak here this one at csis and that the global security forum. i had the pleasure to speak at csis at its previous residents when i was serving at the white house as assistant to president for homeland security and counterterrorism, and it's a privilege to come back and to share my thoughts with you on some of the key global challenges that our country faces today. i also want to take this opportunity to express publicly my deep appreciation to john hamre who is led csis for nearly 16 years and was one of the leading lights in the field of national security after distinguished of the great john is continue to make important contributions to our national
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security editing to speak for all of us in thanking them for adding such wisdom and value to the public conversation on global issues. thank you, john. [applause] >> in many respects csis yours the mission of our intelligence community. to a policymakers identify, understand and hopefully successfully address the myriad of national security issues that our nation faces in a dynamic and very dangerous world. a very dangerous world indeed. my opening remarks this one are different from those i refute rd and finalized in the early afternoon of last friday. they are different because our sensibilities and our souls have been jarred once again by the horrific and one violence perpetrated upon the innocent in the streets, cafés, and concert halls of the beautiful city of paris. our hearts ache for the scores killed and injured in the savage
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attacks, and our thoughts are with them and their families. likewise, our condolences and our thoughts go out to those killed in the crash of a russian airliner a little over two weeks ago in the sinai egypt. while we await confirmation of culpability for those tragedies that each bear the hallmarks of terrorism carried out by the so-called islamic state of iraq in the levant, or isil. and organization of murderous sociopaths that carries out its criminal and morally depraved actions under bogus religious pretense. with its roots in al-qaeda in iraq and empowered by large influx of foreign adherents, isil over the past several years has swallowed up large swaths of territory in iraq and syria, brutally killing thousands upon thousands of men, women and children along the way. not content to limiting its killing fields to iraqis and
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assyrian lands and to setting up local franchise and other countries of the middle east, south asia and africa, isil has developed an external operations agenda that is no now implementg come is admitting with lethal effect. i'm sure we'll talk more about isil in the question and intercession but let me note that the great threat posed to the phenomenon of isil makes it absolutely imperative that the international community urgently commit to achieving an even greater an unprecedented level of cooperation, collaboration, information sharing and joint action in intelligence, law enforcement, military operations at the diplomatic channels. the isil threat demands it. at sea at eight we were close with foreign intelligence security services around the globe to advance our shared counterterrorism goals. over the course of many years we have forged broad and deep partnerships with our closest allies in europe such as great britain, france, and many, many
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others. the strategic relationships have been instrumental in helping to put together a transnational architecture that allows counterterrorism officials and experts to work closely together across the sovereign borders to disrupt terrorist plans and activities. while many terrorist operations have been thwarted as result of the strong transnational timber, tragically not all terrorist plans are uncovered in time. the strategic counterterrorism relationships need to stretch far beyond the traditional trans-atlantic environment which is why we're working closely with so many services in different parts of the world. for instance, we're working very closely with our egyptian partners who are working tirelessly to prevent isil terrorists launching attacks better and at derailing egypt's political reform initiatives and economic development objectives. i reiterated our commitment to strengthen our characters in partnership with cairo and a call to my this past weekend.
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while washington and moscow have significant positive differences on how best to bring the budget and syria to a close eye that several conversations with one of my russian counterparts over the past several weeks about ways to strengthen u.s.-russian counterterrorism cooperation, specifically on the isil threat. these relationships are an essential adjunct of diplomacy and military operations. by working with our foreign partners when has global security by helping them tackle challenges that threaten us all. we benefit from a wider net of collection and from the insides of local services, all of which enhance intelligence we provide to policymakers. the fact is good intelligence, timely, accurate and insightful come is the cornerstone of almost every aspect of national security policy debate from military action to diplomacy to international law enforcement. with a good intelligence or policymakers can better
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understand the risks, challenges as well as the opportunities attempted to key national security issues which is ever more important given the unprecedentedly complex and overlapping array of major challenges to u.s. and global security that we face today. the impression one might get from the daily headlines is that the world has become more unstable. and, indeed, the historical record supports that judgment. in the past three years there've been more outbreaks of instability than at anytime since the collapse of the soviet union. matching the rate we saw during decolonization in the 1960s. this has not been a. approaches -- this has not just been a period of protest in cover change but a violent insurgency and the particular of breakdowns in many states the ability to govern. ongoing conflict in syria, iraq, ukraine, yemen and let the in parts of africa are clear examples. the human toll is reflected in
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the u.n.'s recent announcement that the number of refugees and internally displaced persons in the world is the highest it has been since world war ii. of course all of this localized strife gives rise to the process of threat of international terrorism. when cia analysts look for deeper causes of this instability they find nationalistic, sectarian and technological factors that are eroding the structure of the international system. they also see socioeconomic trends, the impact of climb a change and other elements that are cause for concern. so let me touch upon a few of those this morning. first, the ideas come institutions and states that have undergirded the post-cold war system are under significant stress. it is easy to think of this as a phenomenon confined solely to the developing world, and an assortment where we see states that have actually failed and borders that no longer carry any practical effect such as the border between syria anorak but
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there is considerable stress on governments and the world's most stable regions. in europe, for instance, the migration crisis, sluggish economic growth and a host of other factors has given rise to heightened nationalism, secession movement and the increasing popularity of political parties on both the far right and the far left. even ideas that were the pillars of the continent's postwar prosper such as economic integration democracy itself are being questioned in some quarters. across the globe in both authoritarian and democratic societies governments are finding it incredibly difficult to meet the demands, realistic or not, other skeptical and restive populace as. the so called arab spring revolutions were not fought for democracy per se as much as they were fought for relief from regimes that have failed to meet basic standards of governance and civil society. and as we have seen when people become disillusioned with the powers that be, social media enabled them to more quickly and
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easily form associations that defy the status quo. and in part that is what the global landscape has been changing at a faster and much more disruptive pace. foundations respond to these challenges, adapt to them and evolve will be one of the great plot lines of the 21st century. with i meet with my foreign counterparts, both from friendly and from not so from the government, i sense a very real apprehension about instability and its various manifestations. terrorism, humanitarian crises, proliferation, and so a. interestingly i hear these concerns beautiful officials representing governments whose policies are quite arguably contributing to the problem. in europe and side has risen in states along russia's periphery after moscow demonstrated its willingness to use military and paramilitary forces in ukraine. and a south china sea tensions
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persist as china unilaterally presses its territorial claims, including actions that his pursuit of violating their sovereignty. at the same time the principle of democratic governance is under siege for the ninth consecutive year freedom house in 2014 reported more declined s of intent and the quality of democracy worldwide. worsening ethnosectarian as social economic strains are eroding democracy as is the rise of a more sophisticated form of authoritarianism that forgoes brute force and heavy-handed propaganda in favor of media manipulation, ubiquitous surveillance, criminalization of dissent and controlled elections. second, the presumption of strong sustained growth in the wake of the 2000 a financial crisis -- crash injures him crisis has been elusive for some of the world's largest economies. even china's economy with its seemingly endless potential for growth is slowing.
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in many developing societies growing pessimism about the prospects for economic advancement is fueling instability. regions with urging youth population such as the arab world have been unable to achieve the growth needed to reduce high unemployment rates. perception of growing inequality and result in more street politics and populism. at the same time for growth is left of these nations with fewer resources to devote to economic, humanitarian and peacekeeping assistance to address these challenges. mankind's relationship with the natural world is aggravating these problems and is a potential source of crisis itself. laster was the warmest on record, and this year is on track to be even warmer. extreme weather along with public policies affecting food and water supplies and worsen or create humanitarian crises. of the most immediate concern, sharply reduced crop yields in multiple places simultaneously
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could trigger a shock in food prices with devastating effects. especially an already fragile reasoned pashtun regions. compromise access to food and water rate increases the prospect for famine and deadly epidemics. and finally the rapid advance of information technology has given rise to an entirely new and wide open domain for human interaction in progress, the cyber realm that as an intelligence officer much of my job involves dealing with the unintended consequences of the cyber revolution. force much as it brings the world together, it also serves the purpose of those who wish us harm. of greatest concern, the cyber realm give small groups and even individuals the potential to inflict damage on a scale previously restricted to nation-states. and while states are largely rational actor subject to deterrence, the same does not apply to terrorists and
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criminals. both government and private networks are under constant attack. the department of homeland security reports more than 640,000 cyber related incidents effective federal agencies in fiscal year 2014. the massive and prolonged hiking of employee records held by office of personnel management underscores the intensity of assault on government i.t. systems. and i am personally all to me with the ease with which miscreant hackers can use social engineering techniques to perpetrate criminal intrusions into personal e-mail accounts and information technology and communications systems. unfortunately, there's every reason to expect cyberintrusion to increase in quantity, cunning and impact. but one thing the economics of cyber attacks are skewed to favor the attacker. exploits or malicious software tools are easily acquired. in fact, their prices are falling dramatically in some criminal markets not because of
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a client in demand but because of an increasingly competitive market place. these exploits can be reused on multiple targets and the likelihood of detection and punishment remains low in most instances. while the vast majority of cyber attacks target money for proprietary information and privacy itself, we need to realize that the range of potential targets is much, much greater. we simply cannot discount the very real possibility of attacks against vital infrastructure. utilities, transportation and other essential underpinnings of modern civilization. the world has changed dramatically since i first raised my hand and swore an oath of allegiance to the united states government as a 24 year-old newly minted cia officers eager to make a difference in august 1980. i remember vividly taking a seat at my first desk on the sixth floor of our langley headquarters putting my fingers not on the keyboard of a computer but on the keys of an
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electric typewriter which was quite high-tech at the time. 35 years later our lives as well as our fingers are inextricably linked to the cyber realm, the new digital frontier where most human interactions, transactions and communications take place. and while the digital environment holds tremendous potential and opportunity for the further advancement of humanity, our increasing dependence on it brings obvious risks and challenges. to deal with those risks and challenges, reactive strategies are insufficient. has to be systemic learning informed by constant information sharing so that one organizations detection becomes another's prevention. in other words, countering cyber threats is very much a team effort. at a crucial point to bear in mind is that about 85% of the worldwide web's critical infrastructure is held by the private sector. this is a privately owned and operated by but in which the rules remain uncertain at best.
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a number of federal efforts in recent years have promoted the sharing of cyber threat information between the private sector and governments. dhs and fbi, for example, a programs to assure cyber threat information with a broad community of industry stakeholders. we should be sharing a lot more information than we do as a nation but programmatic, technical and legal challenges as well as concerns about privacy and the role of government have hampered progress. congress has tried so far without success to pass laws addressing the need for comprehensive cyber policy, especially on information sharing. the fact is 20th century laws cannot effectively deal with 21st century threats. within the past few weeks the senate passed the cybersecurity information sharing act which is roughly similar to two bills passed in the house. we may see a conference bill by early next year which would be a very important step forward.
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and as our country deals with this issue and specifically the security and privacy concerns that revolve around information sharing, it is important to note that security and privacy are certainly not mutually exclusive. the benefits of improved information sharing can be achieved in a manner that protects privacy and civil liberties. my hope is that america ideally along with our allies and partners can eventually adopt a comprehensive legal and operational approach to this thread without being forced to it by a catastrophic cyber attack. in the same way that 9/11 forced our country to integrate its national security council in a more rational and effective weight against terrorism. shortly after i returned to the agency some two and half years ago i started to consider we could do to ensure that cia is well prepared for both the opportunities and the challenges of the future. the digital world stood out as an area that required special
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and immediate attention. when asked a group of our senior officers last fall to ponder the agency's future and come back with a strategic plan, they agreed we had to do a much better job of embracing and leveraging the digital revolution. consequently, one of the pillars of our modernization program that we launched this past march with the addition of a -- part of the biggest change to see a structure in five decades. the directorate of digital innovation. this new directorate is at the center of the agency's effort to hasten the adoption of digital solutions into every aspect of our work. it is responsible for accelerating the integration of our digital and cyber capabilities across all of our mission areas, espionage, all sorts of analysis, open source intelligence and covert action. multiple element of the agency in the past have responded to the challenges of the digital era. if we are to excel in the wide
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world we must place activities and operation in the digital domain at the very center of all of our endeavors. our new digital directorate was launched last month and we expect it to contribute enormously to every facet of our global mission. alongside our partners across the intelligence community we at cia will be more capable and effective in safeguarding our country in the full range of threats we faced beyond and within our borders. and let me conclude by saying what i always say to each new class of agency officers to whom i administer the oath of office every month at our headquarters in langley i had absolute best job in the world, bar none. because each day i work with some of the most dedicated, talented, courageous, and pitcher individuals this country has to offer. and in light of the nature and scope of the national security challenges i just highlighted, the need for the contributions of these individuals at cia has never been greater.
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thank you. i look forward to taking your questions. [applause] >> i think we can all see why we are so grateful that you're serving it such a crucial time. you're a wonderful leader. let me just say we're going to take some questions. i'm going to moderate this event. no lectures. i'm going to cut you off if i get a lecture from you're going to get a humiliating response from either nobody came to listen to your thoughts. josh, we will start with you. >> wilgoodgood morning. minus josh rogin. i'm a reporter with bloomberg tv. director brennan, thank you for your time and thank you for your service. the terrorist attacks, the plane of course lies primera at the feet of the terrorists but i
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think i give voice to the question a lot of us out in this room and run the country when asked, how is this allowed to happen? we're talking about an attack that involved dozens of people commuting from multiple countries planning for perhaps weeks or months ended the world's leading intelligence agencies didn't even catch a whiff of it as far as we are to understand is that right? what went wrong and what needs to be done to make sure this never happens again? thank you. >> first of all as i mentioned in my remarks many of these terrorist operations are uncovered and thwarted before the able to be carried out. and when i think about what happened in paris, clear there was an effort that was underway for quite some time that was so sophisticated because of the nature of the attacks in terms of their simultaneous nature. we work very, very close with a french partners. i have an exceptionally strong relationship with the heads of
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external and internal services a lot of our partners right now in europe are facing a lot of challenges in terms of the numbers of individuals who have traveled to syria and iraq, and back again. and so their ability to monitor and surveilled these individuals is under strain. now, i know the french are going to be looking at what might have slipped through the cracks, but i can tell you that it's not a surprise that this attack was carried out from the standpoint of we did have strategic warning. we knew that these plans, plotting my eyes was underway. looking at europe in particular as a a venue for carrying out these attacks. but i must say that there has been a significant increase in the operational security of a number of these operatives and the tears networks as they've gone to school on what it is that they need to do in order to keep their activities concealed from the authorities.
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and as i mentioned a lot of technological capabilities that are available right now that make it exceptionally difficult both technically as well as legally for intelligence secured the services to the insight they need to uncover it. and i do think this is a time for particularly europe as well as here in the united states, for us to take a look and see whether not there have been some intentional gaps that have been created in the belly of intelligence and security services to protect the people that they are asked to serve. and in the last soviet because of a number of unauthorized disclosures and a lot of hand handwringing over the government's role in the effort to try to uncover these terrorists, there have been some policy and legal and other actions that are taken that make our ability collectively
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internationally to find these terrorists much more challenging. and i do hope that this is going to be a wakeup call particularly in areas of europe were think there has been a misrepresentation of what the intelligence security services are doing by some quarters that are designed to undercut those capabilities. >> thank you. i'm at the naval postgraduate school to use a very important phrase called systemic learning. i'm struck by the inhibition of asking questions that exist within the defense department for almost 40 years. and apple has a really interesting technique. everyone that goes to apple is told if you don't know, ask. we all learn together. and i urge that to you and every leader in government because the
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volume -- how would you do that? spent library potential use the word systematic learning. the world is changing before our eyes. as i mentioned in the last 35 years since i've been involved in national security a technological revolution has totally, totally transformed not just the intelligence work but our daily lives. so the people who are going up today they are going up with technology in their hands, but that technology is tremendous implications to it can be done for good or can be done for our in terms of the use of that technology. i do think you're right, as a society, as a government we need to make sure we are not making faulty assumptions because of what the past has told us. we need to make sure that we understand, and this is why we created this directorate of digital innovation. i want to make sure that we in
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cia understand all the implications of the digital environment. what disney, officers operate clandestinely and covertly overseas when everywhere we go these days with the digital dust from whether we go to starbucks and pay with a credit card, rent-a-car, go to a bank, atm, whatever. we create a forensic history people who are joining the agency did have forensic is to already. so i want to make sure that we're able to operate the way we always have in terms of our ability to collect intelligence if necessary for the nationals could in this new digital world. so systemic learning means to me across all the various realms that we operate within and particularly in the cyber realm. >> margaret? >> good morning, mr. director. pbs "newshour." if you like it just who was involved in this attack on a really looks like exact same
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connection between brussels and france, whether it's ease of travel, unedited, whether, where they get the weapons at the back and forth. i just wondered after the "charlie hebdo" attack, kind of changes to the making that relationship books in retrospect what more could they have been? >> well, i will defer to my french partners to talk with the types of things that they are doing and that they did since the "charlie hebdo" attack. but as you point out the plot was uncovered and disrupted in belgium earlier this year has also what types of hallmarks of the attack against pierce has in terms of individuals that were directed to carry out these attacks. we know that are smuggling networks inside of europe, not just in terms of human traffickers of the stops that were overrun and 1990s in eastern europe as far as the a case and all the thing other thi think there's an active black market a lot of these criminal elements will be able to take
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advantage of. when i look at the interaction between the various countries in europe and the ease with which you can travel across borders, it makes those borders quite porous in many respects which means that the challenge for the french as well as other security intelligence services becomes that much more daunting. i do think part of the issue is that there is an overwhelming number now of the cases that they need to pursue their i was just reading in the press this point that prime minister cameron announced the we an additional michael nutter british intelligence that's a good offices that will go to mi5, mi6 and because of the need to make sure the experts to be able to deal with these issues and so that we are not limited in terms of who we can look at more closely or who we can follow. i think a number of european countries are publicly to take note of what happened in paris and see what they can do to boost not just the capabilities but their resources.
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[inaudible] >> i think the u.s. has tended to increase our resources certainly since 9/11 but everyday we are constantly evolving. committed to continuous improvement process and the systematic learning to the we are working very closely with our french partners now to understand exactly some of the mechanisms and techniques that these operatives used. but as i said they their opportunity security is really quite strong. >> thank you so much for your comments today. given the very large number of european union citizens who have as you said traveled to the conflict region and get involved with isis activities, and the impossible of sealing europe's board against these vast tidal waves of people flows, should we regard this type of attack as a one off event or do we have to contemplate the terrible possibility that this could indeed be a new normal? >> i certainly would not consider it a one off event.
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it is clear to me that isil has an external agenda that they are determined to carry out these types of attacks. this is that something that was done in a matter of days. this is something was deliberately and carefully planned over the course of i think several months in terms of making sure that the operatives, the weapons, explosives with the suicide belt. and so i would anticipate that this is not the only operation that isil has in the pipeline. and security intelligence services right now are working feverishly to see what else they can do in terms of uncovering it. so i do believe that this is something we're going to have to deal with for quite some time. a challenge inside of syria and iraq right now with dealing with isil is something that is going to i think take quite a bit of time yet to be able to destroy isil, but it's not going to content itself with violent side
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of syria and iraqi borders. it's going to be looking abroad. we see what happened recently in lebanon as well in terms of attack in southern iraq which against bears all the hallmarks of isil. so it's not just your. i think we in the senate also have to be quite vigilant. >> george washington university center on cyber and homeland security. my question is, even that concert hall, the restaurant where more and the private sector domain, many private sector organizations over the recent years have increased the awareness that they have a security. you see more chief secured offices, more vice president of security. do you foresee kind of a moving, movement toward more cooperation with the private sector, in
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particular those security components within the private sector that could play a role in this kind of fight speak was certainly by definition in the cyber realm there has to be that partnership. estimated 85% the world wide web is owned and operated by the private sector. and so what we need to do as a country not just as our country but other countries we need to find that type of relationship with the private sector that is built on mutual confidence and trust and understand in terms of what the respective roles and responsibilities are. i think we still have a ways to go in that area. there is reluctance on part of many within the private sector to share information about what some of the internal operations and maybe penetrations other systems cause concerns that could affect their stock prices, whatever. we need to find the mechanisms widow the confidence on both sides that information can be shared without having the untoward implications i think some fear. but also on just the physical security side, as was pointed
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out it was outside of a soccer stadium. there is very close cooperation in the united states between law enforcement, intelligence security officials, homeland security with major sports franchises, teams, organizations, making sure that those venues are strong in terms of their precautions they take. the homeland security department has an effective job of reaching out to state and locals and making sure they extend into the private sector. this is not something the government itself can handle. i think it shows that the united states is a big country. europe is a big continent, and there are not enough resources to be able to annoy the everybody -- annoyed everybody to be a law enforcement officer in there needs to be responsibility on the part of individual actors in the private sector as well as individual citizen to i think this is unfortunately a feature of our time -- annoint.
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>> good morning. britain's channel four news. there's been discussion with in the u.s. is under estimate the threat of the atlantic state. perhaps focusing on issues of campaign but in the middle east and even of the threat posed by lone wolf but a look at the capacity of the organization to stage the kinds of attacks we are seeing in paris anbar root -- beirut spent i don't regret underestimate at all the capabilities of isil. its growth over the last several years in particular as you it had its roots in al-qaeda in iraq. it was pretty much decimated when u.s. forces whether in iraq or it had maybe 700 or so adherents left. and then it grew quite a bit in the last several years when it split them from al-qaeda in syria and headed and set up its own organization.
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there is a real effort on the part of the united states and the coalition country to contain its spread inside iraq in syria and has been a containment of that momentum. we saw it was will along in iraq and other areas. it has not had that type of momentum inside of those two countries which is why i think they are looking abroad now to have the spectacular attacks because what they wanted is to further their narrative about the caliphate which is growing into a successful. i think one of the most important things is to do is be able to take away any type of momentum our success both in the area as well as beyond. but as i said there had been a number of successes that prevented isil for moving people, material and other things to carry out attacks. but, unfortunately, this attack several days in paris shows what devastating impact it can have because their agenda is to kill,
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pure and simple. i refer to them as murderous sociopaths. they have this nihilistic approach that they're just trying to kill as many people, young children whatever, it doesn't matter to them. it is a warped, twisted mentality and that's why we have to do everything we can as virtually as we can to contain the growth inside of the middle east but also beyond. >> peter humphrey, analysts and foreign diplomat. you burn a jordanian outcome you get your data points over the islamic state. you taxpayers educate airplanes in the sky. as one who may be privy to the internal dialogue of the caliphate, can you shed any light on the logic of pacing off yet another country and getting bombers over your territory? and secondly, is there any chance that they will stop playing games in israel, which is guaranteed to deliver plenty of bombers over their territory
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speak was i don't understand your first part, first part of your question. but i think it is incumbent shortly on those governments that have particularly been affected by the scourge of isil terrorism to be able to respond and try to prevent follow-on attacks. and there have been efforts on the part of coalition partners as well as the united states to make sure you go to the source of the terrorism. because we know that in syria, the they were isil really has a base for its actual operations activities, to what we need to be able to do is to address isil's external agenda not just as it is able to put operatives and other countries but also at the source of it. and israel is in a very challenging and dangerous neighborhood. it is something that we're looking at very close in terms of what is the impact of isil, not just on syria, iraq, jordan,
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>> as far as agencies around the world working together, this is challenging because there are multiple agencies and organizations and individual countries, each with their own authorities, each operating under certain types of legal parameters and then what you need to be able to do is to be able to interoperate as effectively as possible. i always use the term about the importance of systems engineering. we here in the united states we have many federal department the and agencies as well as state, local, cities, organizations, police departments and others trying to create an architecture where you move data at speed of late taking into account limitations responsibilities and authorities is really quite a challenge. i think we have done a great job here in the united states over the last 10 or 15 years. i think we have a ways to go.
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extending that organization internationally when you have so many organizations around the world i think that is something we'll make further progress on. technology is there, but making sure we are able to handle information while at the same time respecting privacy rights, civil liberties i think this is one of the challenges in terms of how do you balance all of that. and as far as sociopaths, sociopaths can carry out any number of acts of violence. doesn't mean they're rational. they're opposed to civil society and law and order and resist recognized authorities and system of governance that we have. so, again i think that the isil adherents are misguided. unfortunately the narrative that comes out of isil in syria and iraq, making great use of youtube and various social media, as a way to attract people under the false banner of
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religion. that's what it is, it's a false banner. >> my question, how do you feel about cooperation with russian colleagues especially in light of sanctions regime? >> my conversations with my russian counterpart, which have taken place a number of times over the last year and, including over the last several weeks after russian military forces found their way into syria, and these talks focus on what it is that we can do together to try to prevent the flow of individuals into and out of that theater of operations. there are over 2,000, maybe 3,000 russian nationals come down from the caucuses, from
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chechnya, tag goss stan and -- dagostan caucasus. it's a real concern of the russians, to help russia prevent the flow of terrorists in signed of their territory destined to care oy it terrorist attacks. we need to exchange information. it has to be enhanced but i'm determined to work with my russian counterparts because of the importance i think we each can bring to this issue in terms of our insights, our information and our data and sharing it. we worked together closely with the russians in sochi olympics. think they greatly valued the support we provided and information we provided. i want to continue to do that. irrespective of disagreements with respect to policy over syria i'm willing to work with other countries to prevent
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successful terrorist attacks. >> what's your recommendation on the borders? would you now say let's implement stricter external border controls and close down the system for a while? >> one of the things we have to keep in mind we don't want to do have these terrorists succeed in taking away the freedoms and liberties that we pride ourselves on, whether here in the united states or in europe. i know that there is a rush by some to say the border should be closed, we should isolate ourselves. that is inconsistent what our societies have been founded on over last hundred years. we need to be mindful of the risks associated with the individuals that are flowing, to make sure the we take the appropriate steps to make sure we understand who they might be. i don't think what we want to do is hermetically seal our borders because again that is not
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something that is sustainable from a social, cultural, trade, economic political standpoint. i think we have to take into account what has happened recently and how isil can try to take advantage of some of these flows and what can we do to be able to optimize our confidence that we're able to filter out those individuals that are trying to do us harm. >> the last one. >> given that these attacks seem to happen sporadically, should the public accept that this sort of cord made the attack is inevitable to some degree? it can't be prevented despite a number of attacks are prevented every year? >> i would never say attacks are inevitable. we work tirelessly, 24/7, around the clock, around the globe in order to prevent attacks from taking place and our goal is to prevent every single one of them
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from taking place. so i don't have a sense of ininevitability. if there was sense of inevitability, that would almost undermine the commitment of individuals working on this but i do think it is inevitable that isis and other terrorist groups will continue to try and attempt to carry out these attacks. that is inevitability for at least as far as the eye can see. to me it is not inevitable that they're going to succeed. >> i have to get the director out of here. i promised he would be able to leave here by five to. i want you to, don't you feel reassured to have a man of this character and intellect leading us right now? would you please thank him. [applause] >> up next on c-span2, a conservative legal panel looks back at the u.s. supreme court under chief justice john
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roberts. when the senate comes back this morning at 10:00 eastern, they will observe a moment of silence for the victims of the paris attacks. later in the morning they're expected to debate a resolution on epa rules for carbon pollution. attorney general loretta lynch testifies at a justice department oversight hearing. she is expected to get questions about last friday's terrorist attacks in paris and syrian refugees being allowed into the u.s. we have live coverage from the house judiciary committee this morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span3. later in the day a senate panel looks at the relationship between the federal government and state and local law enforcement. the senate judiciary subcommittee hear something live at 2:15 eastern, also on c-span3. >> c-span has the coverage of the road to the white house 2016 where you find the candidates, the speeches, the debates and most importantly your questions.
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this year, we're taking our road to the white house coverage into classrooms across the country with our studentcam contest. giving students the opportunity to discuss what important issues they want to hear the most from the candidates. follow c-span's studentcam contest and road to the white house coverage 2016 on tv, on the radio and online at c-span.org. >> u.s. court of appeals judge along with lawyers and law professors talk about the u.s. supreme court under john roberts and some of the key decisions the court has made since he became chief justice. the federalist society hosted the event. >> good afternoon, everyone. we're about to get started. the microphone is apparently on. well, okay. welcome to those of you watching on c-span and those of you watching the live stream online.
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my name is rachel brand. for those of you who may not be with familiar with the federalist society we're a membership organization of lawyers and law students that provides forum of rigorous debate on law and legal policy for many of us in the room this is the organization that brought to our law schools diverse perspectives on law and legal policy otherwise not reflected on campus and continues to provide informative and provocative programing on a variety of legal issues all threw the year. i'm standing here ba because i'm chairman of the litigation practice group of the federalist society. the practice group planned the panel you're about to hear. the federalist society has 15 practice groups divided by subject matter and they're responsible for a large portion of the programing hosted by the organization throughout the year. for those that might be interested in getting more involved? the organization i make a pitch to get involved in one of the practice groups. if you're interested, come find me afterwards or steve who is on
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front table on the federalist society staff and runs the practice groups. i'm asked to remind you certain of panel conferences including this one are live streamed on the blog of the federalist society. if you can't be here for the whole conference you don't have to miss out entirely. for that i like to turn to the topic today. i'm very delighted with panel we put together. i'm really looking forward to this discussion. the panelists that are going to reflect on the first decade of the roberts court come from diverse perspectives. journalist, academic, a practitioner and former senate staffer. thank you all for being here. with that i turn over to our moderator, judge carlos bea for judge for the u.s. court of appeals for the ninth circuit. thank you, judge bea. [applause] >> thank you, rachel for that invitation or that introduction. the 10 years that chief justice roberts led the court have seen decisions that have affected
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important aspects of our cultural, religious and political lives. our panel today will discuss and deal not only with the chief justice, but also at the nomination process and what effect he has had on the other justices and whether it should be called the roberts court or perhaps the kennedy court or, some people might say the alito court. in the ninth circuit we might refer to it as the court of reversal. [laughter] because over those 10 years the supreme court has reversed the ninth circuit in 78% of the appeals that it accepted from our circuit. to paraphrase -- [applause] to paraphrase a former solicitor general, it has been suggested
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that one could open a cert petition by saying this is petition to review a judgment of the court of appeals for the ninth circuit and there are other reasons also to reverse. [laughter] but enough about the ninth circuit. our panelists will discuss the important decisions which are seen as consistent with the judicial philosophy of the roberts court and how those perhaps brought surprises to the presidents who have nominated the justices. we have a distinguished panel with us today and we'll hear from each panelist. the panelist will exchange questions and then i will take questions from the audience. first we have steven duffield, a graduate of the university of chicago law school. steven is the vice president for policy at crossroads gps. and president of the endgame
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strategies here in washington. steven worked for senator jon kyl on the senate republican policy committee during the judge roberts nomination and confirmmation. steven will discuss expectations regarding judge roberts role as chief justice at the time he was confirmed in 2005. next we have john crawford who is the chief legal correspondent for cbs news around also a graduate of the university of chicago law school. jan covers the supreme court regularly and published a book in 2007, entitled, "supreme conflict, inside story for struggle of control of the united states supreme court." jan will speak about how justice roberts tenure on the court coincided with and diverged from public expectations at the time he was confirmed.
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wee joined by mike kcarvin from jones day. he will discuss some hot-button issues that arisen during chief justice roberts tenure including the affordable care act and affirmative action cases. last but not least, we have professor michael paulsen. michael is professor of university of minnesota and written consistently on constitutional interpretation. michael is familiar with the court's religious jurisprudence. he has. he offers direction the supreme court might take during the next presidential administration. with that let's begin with our first panelist, steven duffy. [applause]
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>> thank you, judge bea i'm honored to be part of this panel. i was a on the. for those who weren't caught up in that particular vortex that period included democrats wholly unprecedented filibuster of lower court nominees such as miguel estrada and priscilla owen. republican threat to eliminate the judicial filibuster of lower court nominees, of all nominees, pardon me what is now called "the nuclear option." infamous gang of 14 partial settlement of that dispute. the nominations of john roberts, samuel alito and sobering experience with another nomination. i've been invited to set the stage how it was john roberts was viewed in the senate and what the expectations were for him from the perspective of the senator who is confirmed him. obviously i don't speak for any senator but these are my good faith impressions about that experience. let's go back to the summer of 2005. the most important thing to understand is that there was a great deal of concern that any
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supreme court nominee would be blocked by filibuster. republicans had just 55 votes. many of us believed that democrats would hold together to block all but the most moderate of nominees, nominees who conservative senators themselves could not support. in other words, we feared some disaster. as consequence of this fear, senate and administration staff spent many months working on how to frame a supreme court nomination. any nomination. the arguments would be the same regardless of who it was. in fact i'm sure everyone recalls then judge roberts analogy of judging as umpires calling balls and strikes. first time i heard that analogy was not from judge roberts but a few months before the o'connor resignation, sitting in then majority leader bill frist's conference room. republican counsel shared the analogy almost precisely the same language that judge roberts would later use. i suppose it's possible that the white house and doj staff in the room taking careful notes never
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shared this idea or phrasing or framing with judge roberts but color me a little bit skeptical. if you don't like the analogy, i know many of you do not, do what you like to do, just blame congress. now keep in mind there were real substantive consequences to this fear of the filibuster and focus on messaging and framing. it meant there was far less attention given on republican side at least to understanding the nuances of john roberts precise judicial philosophy. instead we were working how to shape the debate to prevent filibuster t go back to the timeline. inconclusive gang of 14 agreement is reached in may and justice o'connor announces her resignation or retirement in july. the president nominates john roberts soon after. now from the outset one thing was clear. senators really liked john roberts. they thought he was brilliant but they also just liked his style. my personal view, i always said this judge roberts excited many
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senators because he reminded them so much what they wished they could be themselves, brilliant. somebody who was smooth, cool under pressure and a phenomenal communicator. they wished they could be more like him. but at the same time, few at the time, at least in the senate, were saying that the president had replaced justice o'connor with a justice thomas or justice scalia. at outset especially judge roberts was considered an improvement over justice o'connor, very good choice for the o'connor spot. enthusiasm grew as vetting continued and left became more vocal in opposition. in retrospect we all should agree he was substantial improvement. so after eight weeks of waiting, the passing of the former chief justice and nomination of judge roberts to that role, the hearings occurred in the russell, now the kennedy caucus room. john roberts sat patiently while 18 senators made opening statements to cameras and leaned forward and gave a brief statement of his own which stunned anyone with its
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eloquence. the balls and strikes met at that far made the first public appearance the promise not to be politician or have an agenda. there was beautiful language about the childhood and endless fields of indiana and their promise of endless possibilities. he was formidable. the fight if there ever was to be one was over that day. the next two days of q&a were just defense, by the nominee but also by most republican senators. judge roberts gave us ernest repetitions of doctrines and tests that proved absolute mastery of the law but showed relatively little in the way of specific judicial philosophy. it was also rather dry. at alito hearings a few months later, joe biden clowned around with princeton cap on his head, spoke 26 1/2 of his 30 minutes before even ask ad question. we kept track. i must say we did learn that judge robert's favorite movies were as we all know, "dr. zhivago" and north by
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northwest. nothing illustrates the prosaic of hearings to judge roberts's answer to senator graham's simple question, what would you like history to say about you. characteristically his first response was a bit cheeky. i have the hearing transcript. i like them to start by saying he was confirmed if. perfect, right. audience laughed. and then he said, but actually, the answer is the same, he said i would like them to say, i was a good judge. but what did that mean? we didn't really know except that there was a very firm sense that judge roberts was adamant judges should not bring their policy preferences into judging. of course democratic nominees say all the same. senators saw they were getting a very smart man who contrary to his opening statement was an excellent politician, just in very different field. the staff conversations after judge roberts would do his private meetings with their senators were always the same.
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wow, that guy is good. people were incredibly impressed. there was a sense that he would be an institutionalist, that he truly loved court but i'm not sure any senator actually had any idea what that would mean in practice. it is interesting that in this vain to look at something he said in his opening statement. this is towards the very end of the statement. he said, if i am confirmed, i will be vigilant to protect the independence and integrity of the supreme court and i will work to insure that it upholds the rule of law an safeguards those liberty abouts that make this land of one of endless possibilities for all americans. so, concern for the court. and then coupled with a concern for the rule of law and liberty abouts. but at least in this sentence he placed them in parallel. let me also read what he had to say about results-oriented judging. during questioning from senator cornyn judge roberts said, if a judge is results oriented, quote, it is about the worst
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thing you could say because what you're saying is, you don't apply to the law to tell you what the results should be. you don't go through the judicial additional process. you decision shunnal process. you don't look to the constitutional principles to the law. you look what the results should be and go back and to try to rationalize it and that is not the way the system is supposed to work. to embrace the elephant in the room these words are somewhat interesting given popular conceptions of his approach in both obama care cases. those comments should be read in light of vehement dissent in oberkfell, the same-sex marriage case. he did not adopt strict tex you'llism. but said a judge should start with the text. in response again to senator cornyn, he said i think you foles, i think when you folks legislate you do have something in mind in particular and you
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put it into words and you expect judges not to put it in their own preference, not substitute their judgment for you but to implement your view of what you're accomplishing in the statute. a few lines later he says, i think there is meaning in your legislation and the jock of a good judge is to do as good a job as possible to get the right answer. this nuance was not pursued by senators of either party. the more time you spend with the hearing transcript the more clues like this you see, in fairness this kind of ex-post, exegesis is another style look around the room to find your friends. what matters is that the senators heard what they wanted and needed to hear. no agenda, no politics, limited role of judging, desire of unanimity, rejection of results oriented judging. what they were left at its core, hostile to judges inserts themselves into policy making. as you look back 10 years laters, this may be exactly what
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we got. thank you. [applause] >> i think when we think about the roberts court i will ask to again think back 10 years, this may cause kind of a lot of pain, but if you remember how many excitement that there was because president bush had really been given an historic opportunity to change the supreme court in a way his father had failed to do so and even president reagan. as you all know, the story of the supreme court and certainly the rehnquist court has been one of disappointment for conservatives. the rehnquist court, seven of nine justices nominated by republican presidents, yet, in case after case after case, those justices failed to adhere to conservative, judicial principles. many victories for liberals as
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we don't really need to get into here after lunch. but, you know, why was that? i mean obviously some of the justices weren't as conservative as people had hoped. and when i say conservative i know that's a frustrating term but i'm just referring to judicial conservatism principles. you know, they were never that conservative to begin with. of course that would be the story of justice souter. he looked conservative and wore three-piece suits and was really polite but he had no real philosophy. others really changed when they got on the court and, perhaps didn't have that strong mooring to begin with of course that would be the story of justice kennedy justice o'connor, and failed to provide many in cases the key votes that would have started to do turn the court back in a more conservative
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direction and away from some of the excesses of the warren court. and then still other justice who did have a strong conservative philosophical views i think affected court in unexpected ways. that is the story of justice thomas who i believe really has been the most egregious hi mischaracterized figure probably in our generation. [applause] and i've written about this a lot in the book and it is very interesting because the story of justice thomas is one where we all know he, you know the narrative he is a lackey of justice scalia. he is scalia's intellectual understudy. he is inferior intellectually. of course that narrative is demonstrably false. his obvious, not only by reading his opinions but, it is in the papers of justice blackmun in the library of congress.
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you see thomas taking key positions on his own in conference and later scalia changing his vote to join justice thomas. it is funny, when i talk about this in speeches, depending on the audience, especially on the west coast, i will start to talk about justice thomas because i think it really is an outrage the way he continues to be perceived in the press and, people will be all excited, oh, what is she going to say, piling on justice thomas, i start to tell the stories, almost to a person people will, no one wants to hear it. and that i think is a tremendous disservice to a man but also been done by my profession and it's something i think is outrageous but, his tenure on the court i think has affected the court in unexpected ways. i think in many ways caused justice o'connor with his strong conservative views to drift more to the left than she already was. certainly she was going that
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way. so the rehnquist court was a disappointment for conservatives and here was george bush with this historic opportunity to do what previous presidents had failed to do, which became obvious when justice o'connor shocked everyone by announcing that she was stepping down before the chief justice. so, he had to get it right and relied on i think some very smart people and in tapping john roberts. that was taking us all back. the rap then, and it is really funny, almost like we've kind of come full circle, like who is john roberts? 10 years ago i was one who, and i have argued with a lot of you in this room including a lot on this panel 10 years ago whether or not john roberts was going to be this solid, judicial conservative. i was convinced that he was. i remember others were not. and i remember even members of
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the press, i remember vividly in the supreme court press room reporters were saying he's not that conservative. he is not that conservative because he was really nice and he would talk to them and return their calls and gave them their cell phone numbers. conservative would never do that because they're so mean. [laughter]. but i didn't, yeah, right. i know this guy and he is going to be solid. and then remember when the memos came out that he had written in the reagan administration and they were kind of snarky. his comments on the margins, suggested that he was really conservative. i called a member who is sitting on this panel said, see, i told you so. you remember that? and you know, he waltz through, as steven recounted, waltz through his confirmation
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hearings. who is john rob betters? we talk about some of his decisions. they're hard to figure. we'll get into more details how it unfolds. fascinating how he would rule on obamacare and same-sex marriage but those decisions in his mind would be completely, completely complimentary and not at all inconsistent. if he testified, courts should not reach out and take on social disputes. courts should take a back seat to legislatures. he would say everything this is perfectly consistent with his testimony. but the other thing about john roberts, if you go back and look at his testimony in 2003 when he was confirmed to the d.c. circuit, he had a really interesting exchange about whether he was a strict constructionist. and some of the republican senators were concerned that, you know, what was he? and was he really going to be in the mold of say zoo leah and thomas and follow some of those principles.
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he would not engage at all. he doesn't like labels. that is not, strict constructionism can mean one case and one in another and hugo black can be a strict constructionist and that is meaningless. but at the time you think that is savvy answer. john roberts doesn't like labels. as this panel will show he defies them in many ways. of course i think the other nomination that president bush made and we're going to talk not just about john roberts but the roberts court more broadly was samuel alito. that was absolute home run. alito's opinions are you beautifully written. his presence on the bench has been enormous asset to the court. his questions at oral argument are penetrating and completely different and in some ways unexpected than some of the other justices. and my favorite thing about watching justice alito on the bench his how often justice kennedy will jump in and ask an
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attorney what is your answer to justice alito's question. so i think that, that justice alito has been from president bush's perspective the one, the home run and of course, replacing justice o'connor, a very pivotal vote for the future of this court. but what is the roberts court after 10 years? and to me it's even almost too soon to say now, with two new justices, how they will affect dynamics on the court because the new justices as you will know make as new court. when we saw justice thomas come on the court, a solid vote that changed the dynamics on that court. so i think in many ways it is too soon to tell. i thought about writing another book and was encouraged to do so by my publisher after five years and, decided not to because i think it's too soon. there is snapshot you can take of the court in a terms in five
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years, in 10 years, lord knows we have a lot to talk about today after 10 years but i think that snapshot is being developed. it is not set yet. and what will be very interesting is going forward because, as this court established itself and its identity, how we want to talk about it, whether or not it has any consistent themes, whether roberts has any consistent approaches, this court is going to change. when you talk about a presidential election in 2016, the next president could well get two, three, possibly four appointments after re-election. four of the next justices in the next president's term will be in their 80s. these are conservative justices who could very well be stepping down. so john roberts, while his, has i think been frustrating for many conservatives, if a
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democrat wins the white house, john roberts may well be writing a lot more dissents on the other side because the court and its membership, as really something that could be in flux. so, on that happy note. >> thank you, jan. [applause] >> michael. >> i will pick up on that happy note. the first.i think to be made it is a bit of a misnomer and the roberts court, rehnquist court, or any other court. chief justice is one of nine votes. if he joined eight liberal justices he would have entirely different justice as if he joined eight conservative justice. to pick up on the justice's remark, more accurate to say prior to 2005 it was the kennedy-o'connor court. in the last 10 years it has been largely the kennedy court because he more than any other
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justice is going to dictate the direction of the law. i'm worried that it could become the kennedy/roberts court if the kind of jurisprudence he brings to the affordable care act tends to bleed over into other areas of the law, then we'll have some very rough sledding. i think it is probably as jan said too early to tell on that. but the real consequencal thing that happened 10 years ago frankly not john roberts replacing chief justice rehnquist. it was justice alito replacing justice o'connor. you had a principled conservative replacing suburban republican state legislator. you got some continuity in the law and prescription pill in the law and that is affected some of the various areas that i would like to chat about briefly here. the first things i would like to talk about is the substance of some of the things we've seen over the last 10 years and then
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just kind of jurisprudencal report, approaching to judging and how chief justice roberts differs from people like scalia and thomas. so in terms of the scorecard how have the last 10 years looked? i start with the good stuff because i'm an eternal optimist. we made some baby steps towards the return to rule of law and obviously as jan points out if the election goes wrong, next year, then none of that will matter and we will descend into hellish existence from which we will never emerge. [laughter]. but for right now, you can make an argument that has some relationship to the text, structure and history of the constitution that people actually listen to. so that's nice. and i would like to go through briefly the areas where i think we made some decent progress and then some of the worst parts of the roberts court. i will start with free speech.
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i think generally has been a very good developments. again i will touch on each of these very lightly. citizens united was a brilliant decision, landmark in restoring individual liberty and, enhancing the marketplace of ideas. generally they have taken a very libertarian approach in all areas of speech, commercial speech. there was a decision called sorel against vermont where they reinforced basic principles of free speech. case called alvarez. somewhat controversial, made the point, listen at least with respect to splittal and idealogical and scientific debates, even knowing falsehoods are constitutionally protected and the reason for that is because we don't want to allow an orwellian truth ministry to govern the marketplace of ideas. again, the dynamic in this area and just about every other area
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i will talk about is, these reflect justice kennedy's jurisprudencal inclinations. the court goes as far as justice kennedy wants to go and no farther except with respect to the affordable care act. basically in justice kennedy has basically libertarian approach to the first amendment, that is are with the court's going to go. we had a step backwards last term which was probably the worst term since the 1970s where chief justice roberts wrote an opinion very restrictive opinion about the rights of judges to solicit campaign contributions. you can hopefully write that off as anomaly that judges are different. we're not really going to apply the first amendment to them but the mode of analysis, i don't want to get into the weeds, his under inclusive analysis was dramatic departure from precedent. if anybody takes it seriously i hope they won't, could
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dramatically undercut some first amendment protections. the other aspect of app of course is the first amendment that is important is religion. again i think generally very good marks in terms of where the court has gone on that. now in terms of enhancing religious liberty, enhancing the right of religious adhere answer to the right of the state, judge rote controversial smith opinion defanged the protections of free exercise clause, that essentially said, unless they single out religion for differential treatment they can impose any kind of neutral law, even if it has dramatic burd own on religious practice. so that area switched from the free exercise clause to rfra statute which restores protections, you can't substantially burden the practice of religion absent a compelling government interest. and there we saw most notably last year, two terms ago in the hobby lobby case where they
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vindicated rights of religious employers to resist contraceptive and other mandates that were embodied in affordable care act. we saw very similar development which is actually departure i thought from smith in the tabor case which they said even neutral regulations can't infringe on religious autonomy of religious institutions. they departed from the notion in smith that neutral law would be okay as long as it was generally applied. seen some baby steps in the establishment clause area. town of greece. you can mention god and things like that. in public forums, at least if you have a strong history of doing so. i think the real issue on the establishment clause, the court has not yet confronted and i think will be litmus test in terms whether or not they take a sensible approach to the establishment clause, it has not been firmly established and certainly should be that it doesn't violate the establishment clause if you give religious organizations funding pursuant to a neutral funding
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scheme. in other words you don't have to affirmatively discriminate against religious organizations when you're doling out social welfare money. i think that is the one part of the religious agenda has not yet been resolved. i have a strong degree of confidence there will be five votes for that if it comes up. the next area is, has definitely been a mixed bag and that's of course racial equality. i thought the biggest change we would dramatically see when justice alito replaced justice o'connor was in the area of racial preferences. justice o'connor in the michigan case famously said we'll take a 25 year vacation from the 14th amendment. you candies crime nate all you want against anybody who the government doesn't think is protected minority group. and we'll get back to me and we'll talk about whether or not that makes a lot of sense. i suspect justice alito does not
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share that discriminatory view of the 14th amendment. so, we're going to find out this term in the fisher case which presents again issue of racial preferences in higher education. so sort of dramatically revisits what justice o'connor did in the michigan cases. there is a number of ways you could restore some teeth to the protection of non-minorities against state-based racial discrimination without affirmatively overturning the michigan cases but simply by saying things like, look, if you're invoking critical mass and diversity in into these other buzzwords maybe you could supply some evidence that achieving a 14% minority representation relative to 10% minority representation actually has some educational value. and since there is a complete absence of any evidence to support that extraordinarily counterintuitive notion, as long as they demanded some proof as opposed to slogans i think they
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could go a long way towards restoring the racial neutrality command of the constitution. again, fisher is an interesting test case because it bubbled up a couple of years ago. supreme court waited nine month to issue a four-page opinion that literally said nothing except why don't you take another look at this. fifth circuit quite predictably said we've taken another look at it and sent it back up. i think this time it will be interesting to see if they actually put some teeth, restore some teeth again to the equal protection analysis. in statutory realm there has been some very good decisions in the voting rights act. the big surprise and the big step backwards attributable to justice kennedy last term was he read an effects test into title 8, the fair housing act which prohibits fair housing discrimination which was real surprise to me because at least in employment and voting area justice kennedy seemed to firmly understand and adopt the position that the effects test
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is just another word for racial quota and that we shouldn't turn statutes which say don't take account of race into statutes that say you must take into account of race and sort out government benefits on a racially proportionate basis. but then last year in the title 8 case in texas he took a big step backwards on that. he laced his opinion with saying now don't turn this into quota but hud about a week later issued a bunch of regulations which did turn it into a quota. that will tell you about as much effect as justice kennedy has there. again i do think for the reasons i just articulated the court's decision in fisher this year will tell you a lot how they will handle racial issues going forward, both in terms of the statutory and non-statutory context. i think the final big step forward in terms of jurisprudence and adhering to the rule of law over the last 10
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years was the decision recognizing that the second amendment actually does protect individual rights to own firearms. the actual practical effect of that opinion i think we don't know yet because they have never taken a follow-on case to sort through the kinds of gun regulations that are out there and the kind of judicial scrutiny they have given to it but it was clearly a huge originalist win. in a closely-divided court that was certainly probably the best thing that this court has done. on the bad side, obviously last year's decision in the same-sex marriage case was, about as lawless as you could be. the provision that justice kennedy invoked says you can't deny, excuse me, life, liberty or property without due process of law which of course to all english-speaking means, people of the same sex must be able to
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marry. he supported this keenly@tuned text all analysis with platitudes that came from hallmark greeting cards. [laughter] so, it really didn't pretend to be what we were usually accustomed used to of overriding democratic choices and decisions of most major religions. the others, i have distinct prejudice on this, hallmark of lawlessness over last 10 years with the case of king versus burwell i really argued. it was worse than the first nfib decision which it upheld the affordable care act because, steven was pointing out, you could attribute that to a normal conservative, wrong but at least argue plausibly that this was deferring to congress and they didn't want to, in presidential election year strike down
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landmark social legislation but there was really no such excuse in terms of interpreting a statute. the plain language of the statute and having six members of the court state doesn't mean state, it means federal was very reminiscent what the court was doing in the 70's, particularly with respect to the civil rights act under cases like weber and aggression, north meant south, easement west. and i thought that the one thing we accomplished in the late-stages of rehnquist court and certainly in the roberts court to interpret statutes to have some relation to the plain meaning of the text. constitutions live and grow and, you know, there is the argument that you shouldn't defer to the policy choices of couple hundred years ago by dead white men but these are the policy choices of the legislature from four years ago and, there was really no excuse, other than, a naked
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policy preference to change what the law meant to the opposite of what it meant. the other issue, again this is where chief justice robert is probably departed most starkly from the rule of law was the nfib case which upheld constitutionality of the affordable care act. i'm trying not to take either of these decisions personally but, for those in fascist, the school of fascist conspiracy theories could think he just doesn't like me. he only departs from the text when i'm available and maybe that will give us some solace for future cases. [laughter] the other areas i think have been less dramatic in terms of their departures from the text. eighth amendment, we've seen a lot of arguments where the court is essentially establishing a code for states. in the death penalty and life without parole context where they're dictating to elected
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representatives of states how they need to treat relatively young or or relatively mentally-challenged murders establishing a kind of code without again any serious argument that the punishment being inflicted is cruel or unusual. and another opinion from last term that again, it is not terribly unpredictable in terms of its consequences but was really a naked assault on the text of the constitution was the arizona redistricting case where they said legislature meant popular sovereignty, didn't mean legislature. i commend to you, this was literally two days after the king decision came down. i commend to you chief justice roberts stirring dissent how dare they distort the meaning of the word legislature to achieve the broader purposes of the constitution. again, proving yet again, that the supreme court is an irony-free zone and, and again
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maybe confirming that the personal animus theory that i am coming to adopt. [laughter] so those are the big picture, substantive areas. in terms of approach to judging, i think biggest difference between chief justice roberts, for example, and conservative members of the court, particularly justice scalia and thomas, is emphasis on incree men alism where he wants to take a step at time. i could walk you through a variety of contexts. fisher is actually an example they took a small step and may come back to it. shelby county decision, striking down section 5, prefaced by certain small steps. this term they will decide a case, friedrichs which i'm actually arguing, knox and harris they addressed great doubt of constitutionality of commanding agency fees in public unions from people who don't belong to the union on first amendment grounds and now they have got a case that squarely presents the question of whether you should overturn precedent
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that previously upheld it. i don't think that, i'm not entirely sure why there should be a conservative principle that says incremental system preferrable to a scalia-like approach. the point i always make is, you could have certainly in 1954 written brown v. board of education to say that the black schools were clearly unequal to the white schools and upheld plessy v. ferguson's law about separate but unequal but nonetheless struck down these laws because they didn't satisfy the plessy standard. the problem with that kind ever incree men alism, reflexes you're keeping in place a foundational premise which is contrary to the text structure and history of the constitution which can't be in the long run good for the coherent development of the law or much less the institutional integrity of the court. that is the last point i will make.
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picking up on stephen's point of how justice roberts, there was some ambiguity during his confirmation hearing whether he was worried about the institutional integrity of the court and in my mind anytime you hear a justice or judge talk about the court, as opposed to the law, that sends up a real warning signal because if you want to enhance the institutional integrity of the court, just do law. just do it and do it in neutral way where umpires are calling balls and strikes in neutral manner. if you start changing your view of the law, or modifying your view of the law because you're worried about public perceptions of the court, that can only invite the notion that you're not neutrally interpreting the text of the legal materials in front of you but you are injecting a thumb on scales that favors one party or another or one policy view over another. and in the long run, that by definition decreases
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institutional integrity of court because it just reduce the court to another legislative body where decisions are made based on who's ox is being gored rather than neutral principles. that is always a worrisome sign. again i think it is too early to tell which way chief justice roberts 'jurisprudence will develop. generally very favorable. there are notable couple of exceptions to that. i hope that will stay in the anomalous category but we don't know. and again if we lose the next election it won't matter at all. thank you. [applause] p. >> well, i'm honored to be here. the federalist society has been a part of my life and existence since 1982 when i arrived at yale and discovered they were creating a institution. i'm not founding father of the
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federalist society. i'm a founding nephew and second generation. an at many of these events. ily love this organization. i willed a lot of what michael carvin said. he stole some of my thunder. i will build on things about future of roberts court. the title i've given my remarks is a quest i have a handout. what kind of law professor would it be if you didn't have assignment. don't worry there won't be test on this the question is what is conservative about the roberts court? i agree with mike, that the idea of marking the beginning of periods or epochs of the supreme court from the chief justiceship of an individual is in some ways distorting but it is convenient. it's a convenient marker. i want to look at the personnel changes last four years. has the court become more idealogical conservative in its composition? i would say no. there has not been much of
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idealogical change in the court since 2005 when john roberts was first sworn in. first consider the composition of court as it stood. we heard some of this. basically in three solid conservatives rehnquist, scalia, thomas, you had a solid block of pretty much four reliable liberals, ginsberg, breyer, stevens, souter, who crept left before finally lurching left and by 2005 is solidly in the liberal block. you had two swing justices so-called swing justices o'connor and kennedy. i would prefer to call them weather vane justices because they swing with the prevailing political and cultural winds. they had conservative instincts in certain respects but did not have consistent coherent or judicial philosophies. you have two conservatives four liberals and two swing votes. and then substitutions. i lay out the little lineup
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card. substitution of roberts for rehnquist. that is pretty much a wash. you have a generally mainstream, for the most part consistently conservative jurist, replacing a another mainstream consistently conservative jurist. the switch from roberts to rehnquist basically ends up being the same. the material change i agree with mike and with jan is that of sam alito for justice o'connor. in some sense that is a little unfair. like a double switch in baseball. they came in at the same time. roberts was initially would be for o'connor. bumped up to the chiefship. we had this little episode that dominated october 2005 where bush was flirting with a different nominee but then on halloween i think it was alito was finally put forward as a nominee. that is the material change because i think it does substitute a solid judicial conservative for a liquid
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judicial conservative. sometimes gaseous one. o'connor was not principled solid conservative. the net change you move from one of the swing justice into one more fairly reliable camp. you have now a 4--4. that makes a difference where kennedy would have voted with conservatives anyway. some issues kennedy leans conservative. some issues owe none nor liened conservative. when you substitute alito's vote for o'connor's vote and kennedy would be with the conservatives any way. that is basically the list. michael did such a good job on the list i will bullet point it as quickly as i can. my theme the changes have been few and far between. there have been relatively few conservative victories. they have been interspersed between a lot of important and dramatic liberal victories and defeats for the constitution. so, quick canvas of the cases.
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these are all cases, or mostly cases where kennedy leaned right and o'connor less so and change from o'connor to alito made a material difference. one mike mentioned is campaign finance. the switch from mcconnell versus fec which was first amendment disaster to citizens united which is first amendment triumph is single most notable change effected and switch is attributable to alito's vote. incremental shift in abortion. court struck down nebraska's partial birth abortion ban in 2000 and upheld narrowest grounds in 2007 the federal ban on partial-birth abortion. a baby step. similarly baby steps on racial preferences mike covered that. the court is moving in the right direction but so incrementally sometimes hard to see. religious freedom there has been a very important change. the hose sanaa, day bore case, unanimous -- tabor decision,
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underminds the principles of employment division versus smith case. hopefully comes very important to the future there. is afternoon panel devoted almost exclusively to the issue of religious freedom. in addition sam alito's opinion for majority in hobby lobby case, 5-4, holding kennedy was extremely important in interpretation of rfra and recognition of broad rights of religious freedom and religious conscience as against government regulations. . .
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a new restriction of the scope of the use of government spending power to coerce states into adopting federal programs. i think that's meaningful. the utility regulatory group versus the be a case which i think is huge for separation of powers. it says surprisingly enough that the president cannot rewrite laws of congress just to effectuate aside policy outcomes when the laws don't say what they want. it's a silly opinion, brilliant, important and one of the sweeper victories. in the category of other sweeper
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victories, in my day job as a civil procedure professor, sorry i don't need to bring back bad memories, but they're being meaningful changes in the law governing pleading, standing and territorial just a few which will have a practical impact in changing the way education is conducted in the federal courts in the future. these victories have been few and have been interspersed far between dramatic a liberal results. some of the most awful cases i think i've been a war prisoner cases from the bush administration era, absolutely indefensible and precursor of indefensible decision in the same-sex marriage cases both the windsor case in 2013 and, of course, obergefell. before democratic appointees in the supreme court are a solid block. when kennedy joined to the it is not in any meaningful sense the roberts court. it is the kennedy court.
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so i'd like to conclude with the lessons for the next conservative president releases the next conservative president who cares about the constitution. sort of look forward hopefully, cheerfully to the next 10 years of the roberts court. as jim mentioned, on inauguration day 2017, nearly three justices in their 80s, and there will be an opportunity for in all likely to meaningful changes and those of the important. ideology matters. judicial philosophy matters. the supreme court wields substantial government power, and what your philosophy is come the proper use of that government power makes a huge difference to the country, to the future of the nation, to your faithful stewardship of the constitution and sometimes it is literally a matter of life and death, who you all point to the supreme court. it makes a world of difference for example, that we've ended up
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with david souter rather than edith jones or lord silverman in 1990. i think if you edith jones appointed by republican presidents i think ruby wade is overruled by a vote of 6-3 or 7-2 because the weathervanes swing the other way. -- roe v. wade. at the conference committee have this conception that in terms of the saving millions of lives. it makes a huge difference was 1987 you succeed in confirming a robert bork or a douglas ginsburg instead of ending up with antony kennedy and makes a huge difference whether you have a sotomayor or a sudden our session. makes a difference when you have a justice kagan or a cabinet or a cruz. ideology matters under the objection will calm and here i would like to get back and forth with steve on it. sometimes you get to know him as
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judicial philosophy. and sometimes it's considered not proper to ask or that it is not politic to present a position. my answers are yes, you can no judicial ideology in advance fairly reliable, and just it is proper and necessary to ask. of course, you cannot these individuals will be as justices on the supreme court. i don't think it's bragging or any sort of special skill but really give me 10 minutes with a prospective nominee and i will tell you how they're likely to be on the supreme court. i will not have everything right but they will not disappoint well-settled expectations based upon an interview that puts straightforward ideological questions to them. you can tell in advance a difference between a scalia and
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a souter. of course, is proper to ask these questions. sometimes we fetishize this idea of judicial independence. judicial independence in the constitution is a function of life tenure and salary guarantees which supposedly assurance of the essential autonomy. once someone is confirmed. the other side of the constitution is it enshrined an explicitly political appointment and confirmation process as part of the separation of powers and checks and balances. i think it then becomes the obligation, the constitutional duty of the president, i do consider -- of the congress to press with the understand to be the proper views of constitutional interpretation with all the powers and energy of their disposal. i think it's impossible to know what a justice will yield and i think it actually favor the most extreme version of litmus tests.
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i think if you give me just one question to ask an individual justice that will yield the maximum amount of information about their judicial philosophy and say, what do you think of roe v. wade? they will tell you whether i think judges can, something other starry deesisus into the butter theory, relationship of judicial power to legislate or. it is entirely appropriate i said that as constitutional matter to push these questions forward and that should the public adored on the next president i'm going to leave it there so we have some time to go back and forth but thank you very much for your attention. [applause] >> we are going to have a period of questions and answers, and as chairman i appointed myself to start. first, steve, we have the two ac
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a unit. and the interpretation that what is not a tax on if they tax on wednesday, in the first case. the word state includes the word federal in the second case. until we have a arizona case where the word legislature includes a nonlegislative enactment. question, is textualism now dead? and did then judge roberts give any indication of what his views were on textualism when he was confirmed. >> i really don't think he did. i have the quote and the hearing transcript. you get some hints that it is a little bit odd to go backwards
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and look at you find yourself looking forwards we don't really know how it is received at the time. i went through it and i was redoing it again and think about underrated squarely, textualism being squarely keyed up and there's no significant discussion about what that would look like other of course you start with the text of the statute and had this conversation of legislative history. the extent to which you would focus on the text and whether words can mean something different, no, it's not squared up with i do note, we had a discussion i defined become anything like the first aca case. these questions don't get keyed up and part of that is because well, to your question, no, that wasn't and its odd looking back that it wasn't. i also think that look on these hearings take place in a certain moment in time. kelo at commodit had commodity r comment so there was a lot of discussion of kelo.
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it's always the more recent cases and so as far as the commerce clause would discuss it was all the raise case being discussed at the same time. what does that mean? people are thinking of it in a narrow sort of way based on the last case. everyone is fighting the last war in terms of all of this. to answer both, i guess one question but answered a second one, which is to say i don't know if it's dead but senators are not, they don't seem i don't think inclined to engage in a sustained conversation about specific doctrines of interpretation, very difficult for them to do that in the cross examination sort of format that you had to do. so as a consequence as i said, they don't get elaborate upon very much, and you are able as the nominee to sit there and have very simple sorts of views about, not simplistic but simple
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and straightforward and clear views about not inserting policy preferences without ever having to explain the contours of how you get there. >> choose to supplement the point. i don't mean this disrespectful but let's face it, most members of the senate judiciary committee are not jurisprudential giants. they have a day job. they're not supposed to know the nuances of how you parse things and then there's the normal institutional interest. you have a republican nominee. the people who would be most interest in assuring that the person was called conservative would be the republican senators but then i couldn't engage in a hostile kind of cross-examination of a president of there's party nominee. and third, look, john roberts and sam alito could run circles around anyone but to try and do it. roberts hit a superb performance, but actually alito, i mean can he in both the
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committee and the wireless bath of boredom that anyone has ever seen. [laughter] and they would ask these incredible hostile question every be like yes, anders smith v. jones. i men into it -- [laughter] that's a you completely defused the. the notion some democratic senator, particularly joe biden, is going to figure out sam alito's jurisprudence is i think quite unrealistic. you were there. >> i want to more from you about how you figure out who's going to be -- think about how john roberts answered the question about roe v. wade and the law. he said yes, it is settled law, subject to principles of stare decisis. i mean, democrats alike okay, yes. and republicans were like yes, because they heard different things and, of course, john roberts said absolutely nothing. that is a meaningless, but
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people heard in that different things because, to mike's point, they arbiters of the senate judiciary committee and not -- and you got 26 minutes with a joe biden. >> i commented on this issue with north by northwest and doctor zhivago. if no one left you must all remember this. this was a very funny actual moment which was standard issue was completely and totally frustrated with the current u.s. attorney from new york sitting right behind him who he right behind him to a plan that is very careful cross-examination and tried to get at him and to figure out what it was he thought about things. he said this is exasperating. i ask you which are favorite movies are and you said i like movies about it, and that i like movies that are dramas. sometimes i like movies that have a female lead and sometimes i like movies that have a melee.
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to complete the joke part, they ran out of time. senator specter, chairman specter was not inclined to give senator schumer in wartime. because they ran out on the question was posed and then it wasn't answered. a little bit back and forth what he did answer the question and judge roberts said no, i'm happy to answer the question. he leaned in and then he said doctor zhivago, north by northwest. schumer was very angry as was his counsel. i was sitting across the dais at the time watching them because they had really tried, this is the second day, they have tried really hard to figure out how to pin him down and out to get enough information to be able to figure out more about his judicial philosophy, and entities toward to explicitly how you're going to rule on a case. and here they thought they had him. and he just slipped right by it and then when they got called on all but he made a joke out of it.
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he was just being cheeky. but at the same time there was not a joke for senator schumer, not a joke for the others on the other side because they were very frustrated at not being able to draw it out. >> i'm not sure the senate confirmation hearings are the best method for drawing out judicial ideology. the place you do it is in on one-to-one conversations between people who understand these issues and understand the right question to be asking at to be looking for. part of my critique is the way the administration at least in republican administrations have seemingly failed to put direct, simple, straightforward questions to get at judicial philosophy. >> they are going to lie. i did reagan administration judicial screen. here's how it would. high, how are you? i think roe v. wade should be overturned. good. would you like some coffee? [laughter] there wasn't anybody was going to say i think it was correctly decided so you get added
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giveaways but i think you need a track record these guys agreed engaged in public law, the justice department, or state attorney general, or on the bench and that's how you know how they decide. just ajustice it was a completea self-inflicted wound, that was quite obvious when we did it, when it was done. so i don't think it was that argued tease out consumers from non-conservatives. i think doing it in a crucible of a white house interview process is just quite difficult spirit if you think about justice alito, he had a track record. bill kelly concluded he had never written a wrong opinion. at his confirmation hearing i think can be something we think and look for, he was at the big fight. that's right, he was nominated on halloween. they were all like this is scary, it's a trick on the american people, all that stuff. he was the big fight. it was going to be replacing the pivotal vote. their opinions, memos, princeton. on and on and on.
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and his performance in that hearing was a masterful. he was better than roberts. inherited and when his wife started crying you couldn't have scripted it any better. alito, it was like they were ready, they're going to begin, defeat this nomination and they never were able to strike, like get a spark, like never. so i think, and by the way, sam alito did not read one word of the briefing books that the white house prepared for him for the very. that was all sam alito. the less i think if you think about going forward in getting that nominee confirmed his track record although that tends to be a a public court judge but also think that the nominee at the hearing. robert bork could well be on the supreme court if there was nicorette, at the time. that hearing speed or if we set him up in 86.
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>> we still have the senate in 86 and he would've gotten through and scalia sailed through. >> we are going to close at 1:45 p.m. punctually and we have left some time for questions on the audience. so if you have some questions please stand up and go to one of the microphones. and when you ask your question identify yourself and also the person if you have one for you wish to answer the question. all right? >> thank you. i am real property attorney from idaho. the question is for the panel generally, the specific is do you think the decision in hobby lobby necessary drives the result for the new little sisters of the poor case, but the larger question is, does the roberts court and move into position where does it merely use the bill of rights as a
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shield to get carveouts to certain groups and starts to use it as a sword and say no, you don't get to do that, congress and the president, there is no power for you to do those things that you purport to do in some portions of the affordable care act, in particular speak with great question as to whether hobby lobby dictates the outcome in little sisters of the poor and all these other contraception abortion mandate cases. the answer is i hope so but it all depends on what justice kennedy thinks. it's antony kennedy's world and we're just living in it. asked whether or not more broadly the supreme court will move to a position of using religious liberty as a way of disqualifying all things the government does. i don't think so but i think the nature of the apartment that is made for a broad understanding of religious liberty is the right to free exercise and religion gives you the right to exercise religion in some
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respects everly from the roles of the government generally imposes. it is your individual freedom from government compulsion but usually does not entail a right to keep the government from otherwise are doing what it's going to do. >> justice alito recently spoke to a dallas federalist society gathering, and he mentioned his distress with some of the result in free speech cases. he mentioned, of course you with the long dissent and snider versus something else imagine the crush video case. he would like to see a distinction drawn comment sounded as if he was saying between self-expression, unlimited self-expression and free speech. do you think that his position, encouraging this distinction,
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that he will be invalid with the other conservative members of the court? and what current controversies in society might be decided differently if this becomes the case? >> well, if no one out there is when it is when, i think that justice alito's narrow interpretation of freedom of speech in those cases really does make him an outlier within the court. it's not something he does very often but he does have, in that aspect, the least pro-freedom of speech position of anyone on the court. generally though he is important and a reliable voice for freedom of expression, freedom of speech. his dissent in the christian legal society v. martinez case was a powerful defense of freedom of expression ahead of
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freedom of expressive association, the freedom of groups to define their membership and the identity. i think that's one of the important losses during the roberts court era that hopefully will be overturned in the futu future. >> just to put know that. i think justice scalia is less libertarian in circumstances where the speech doesn't strike most people as speech, like -- sorry, justice alito like stepping on hoppe's heads -- puppy's heads and violent video games and things like that which barely cross the threshold of being expressive. and to think what justice alito is working for some kind of commonsense ability to protect at least vulnerable members of society like kids on those destructive images. i don't think it's probably going to garner a majority of the court by think justice alito is actually very firm advocate of the first tournament in context when we talk about real speech come and particularly in areas where he thinks there's a
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chance of the government engaging in a subtle are the best viewpoint, discrimination like on college campuses and the like where he's aware of the notion that speech departs from the norm can be a burden. >> next question. >> paul, d.c. attorney for either question for steven and maybe jan, a historical question because in the roberts was initially nominated for congress is bought and chief justice rehnquist passed away and he was renominated for the chief sponsor was there any consideration given to keep the roberts nomination as the associate and elevate justice scalia to the chief spot justice rehnquist himself was? the republicans controlled the senate at the time. >> i will say this because in has very, very little information of what's going on on the specifics of the nominations i. i. one assumes they do.
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there are a handful of members which may have off-line conversation but they keep at it purely member level. >> and my answer to that is no, that wasn't. and scalia did not appreciate it. i do know he would've taken it. now i think he would say and he has said that he enjoys the role he is on the court, it allows them to be scalia. in his defense he can do outrageous on the bench, but no. what's interesting i think, another interesting question when you think your points is everything has to kind of line up a certain way. it's like getting struck by lightning, getting a nomination to the court. and everything has to line up. the senate has to be in the right mood, who's going to get the nomination depends on republicans or democrats control of the senate. to me i think of thousand question is if rehnquist had stepped down when all body was
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going to come and really he should have, would john roberts have been the nominee? if rehnquist had converse with you then, and my guess is no. but i think when the president sal roberts performing as he did come in with rehnquist on the eve of these hearings passing away, he had kind of been tested so it was easy for the president to move roberts into that spot giving away the of course for that legal powerhouse harriet miers, which no one is mentioning her name so i have to throw it out there. but then, of course, getting justice alito. i think the court would look different had rehnquist step down. >> i thought harriet was the most brilliant -- high-stakes poker but i've got to give you credit. >> so in his trench 11 -- turn
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11 in obergefell, they criticize in your case more than 10 times. that's the case that more and more conservative legal scholars simply to embrace. so my question for the panel generally is what role do you think that case will play in determining the next appointee should a republican win the election speak with i apologize. did you say lochner? i would say zero. i could so see anybody on the court including justice thomas going towards a notion of substantive due process that gives the same kind of protection to abortion, to economic rights that has been given to abortion and that sort of thing. because they think, in my view, correctly, that lochner was wrongly decided and that while economic regulations what we see prevalent in today's society is really, really stupid, that the constitution doesn't deprive states of federal government of
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the ability to enact really stupid economic regulation. >> last question, and to the reader microphone. >> some of you talked about citizens united. what is your sense of this in cases like that, mccutcheon, arizona for enterprise club, citizens united, wisconsin right to life, who is the swing vote? who was the last one to come on board speak with i think you need to take those individual. we all know that there was a famous dispute between justice scalia and chief justice roberts about the wisconsin right to life. again, scalia takes the approach that you need to destroy the village to save it. chief justice roberts takes the approach, keep the structure but make sure it doesn't really mean anything come as you can tell us what scalia side of that debate, that it is a fundamentally, if
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there's a precedent that is compatible with basic first amendment rights and it should be cleaned up, not to this incrementalism step. so that's a long answer to your question, which i strongly suspect in light of what published opinions that come that chief justice roberts was reluctant to take the steps that they ultimately took him citizens united as quickly as justice scalia wanted to take it but ultimately came around to it. it's really interesting talk about come into solicitor general had not given the completely truthful answer that yes, of course this means you couldn't publish a book criticizing hillary clinton, a corporation couldn't do it, and they have had a different result in citizens united and that's what led to a question by justice alito by the way and that's what a lot of people rethinking it and we argument. i strongly suspect chief justice
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roberts was the one putting the brakes on that. i strong suspect he probably wanted to write a more narrow opinion, but once the momentum had developed to overturn austin and restore the first amendment to what it naturally met, i think you went along with it. >> i want to thank this wonderful panel. pages 1:45 p.m. and i've got my marching orders, so thank you very much. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> c-span as the best access to congress. watch live coverage of the house on c-span and the senate on c-span2. watch us online or on your phone and c-span.org. listen live in a come on our c-span radio app. get best access to behind the scenes by following c-span and our capitol hill reporter craig
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kaplan on twitter. stay with c-span, c-span radio and c-span.org for your best access to congress. >> on this tuesday morning he is a sin is about to gavel in. lawmakers plan to begin the day with a moment of silence. been senators will spend about an hour on general speeches before the take up the bill to disapprove the epa rule onthe pr carbon emissions.der. live coverage of the u.s. senate here on c-span2. eternal god, who formed the mountains and hills, give our senators strength for this season of challenge. provide them such wisdom
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