>> why did you want to serve when you were young? >> i'm going to do with panels sometimes do in cheek. go off on a tangent while you forget the question. >> that's okay. i have many follow-ups. >> walter often gives me credit

for resurfacing the it. this idea then out of longtime. it's in history. it's allowed to get weakens over the last few decades. i happened to come along at the time. i would say something. it's been a real honor to be a small part of this. my wife said something to me a few months ago. we are at an event like this and we talked. afterwards she said, i think if you will pull this office will be the best thing you were ever a part of in your life, and i think she's absolutely right. i'm going to sound a little passionate debate so you can discount some of that. the second is the people on my left and right, reason i'm honored to be a. is because they are friends and they've been friends. not only do we agree on this but michele flournoy was one of those people in the pentagon that you wanted to meet with. there's not that many people you wanted to meet with. michele could tell you, or take the hard truth in a way that

made you understand and it made you want to work together. that's magic and sort at the basis of what leadership is about. this is somewhat could be off doing other things and making a bunch of money and raise your kids much easier, and yet just dedicated herself. to my right, seth moulton, i met at dinner one night. just did an extraordinary precious marine veteran. when i meet a marine i automatically check my wallet and things like that. we met. here's a person who again has bona fides that i would to have on my resume ideas chosen to serve and he is the only politician i've ever actively supported. i actually, remember we did the peabody oaks club campaign even when you are running for congress, and that's hard work. for him, not for me. it's because this is exactly the kind of person. i didn't ask him what he was democrat or republican. i said i will support you.

i wil will circle around togethr sport. i think all of us are in agreement that there's something about service that is essential to citizenship, because citizenship is what defines a nation. the lord almighty didn't drive nations and say this is the kind of america, mexico, what do. people got together and made a covenant and said we will be a nation. when they did that they took on some responsibility and to god so much so that they got to be defended and got other things that goes with being connected to other people. you take on responsibilities and to take on responsibilities for your fellow citizens. as walter said, that last great length of the declaration of independence, we pledge our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor. and this is to each other. that's the point. it's not to some big idea. it's not to the black. it's to each other and that

really underpins it. the question of citizenship and how you grow that is i think fundamental. if you go back in history in american society or any society where there was a need for mutual defense, you had to defend the outpost or raise bars or do things that actually had to happen, there was this need you were going to do things because that's just the way of life. as we become more atomized and more anonymous in some areas, i think with the exception of great big defining moments in the 20th century like a second world war with 16 million americans wore the uniform and everybody was asked to do something, director and director, you give them the experience which is a positive experience of surfing. we don't all volunteer to serve. we all are not happy about what we are given to do but how many expenses do we have in our life were asked which ago i probably wouldn't have done that by

choice but am glad i did. and to be honest i think we have the generation before us now that we all and opportunity, not to keep them something that ability because to bed chose to do what to do it, but give them something they can do the makes a difference that's going to give them the experience for the rest of their lives they feel invested in it. i'll steal this line from a panel i was on not long ago, they haven't into that relationship with their community and the nation. it's different from transactional. you're a part of the. when i think about giving young people the opportunity, and over time i want it to be the implied responsibility to do a year of service, i think what we did is the greatest ever in the world, and we do the greatest ever because i think we been produce alumni. that's not what they do during the year. i will do good work and it must be valuable but really the benefit of this is alumni. they're going to be for the rest of their lives different

citizens and they will interact differently and they will have different relationships between each other. if we don't do it now, i think that we will continue to suffer from all the things that walter described. sorry for preaching on that. >> no. when a four star preachers, you let him preach, you know? i learned that long ago. so, forget the first question. as a journalist my first question really is what the need to get this started? once the first obstacle? it sounds like a great idea that were required some huge government agency or some large outside of government body to coordinate millions of american kids and a whole new generation mindset. you are a member of congress. you can create things and fund them. what's the answer that you like to happen or the more likely thing to happen to get all of this started an organized and funded? >> i think, first of all, thanks

for hosting this great discussion. i think there are several things that can be done tactically. the first is, it was already mentioned, the demand already exceeds the supply of these opportunities. we are turning away young people who want to serve already because the program pipelines are not big enough. i think there's a first step of simply expanded the opportunities that exist, whether it's teach for america or americorps or peace corps and so forth. i also think we need to think beyond government and government funding. in my work with other nonprofits like a mission continues, i found that in the private sector there are many, many companies that would love to find national service or public service opportunities. in the mission continues they end up supporting service bulletins in urban centers across the united states. you can imagine getting

corporate funding sponsoring national service in various communities around the country as long as those are validated and certified as legitimate opportunities. so i do think there's a funding peace but we shouldn't just think in terms of federal funding although that is important i think legislation to expand the opportunities is a start but we need to draw other sources of funding across the country. then you have to think about that expectation. how do you incentivize young people? all the polling of this next generation, my own experience with my own teenagers, is that there is a desire to serve. they want to do something that is serving something higher than themselves. they want to connect with their communities. and so -- is not working? i'm sorry. so creating that expectation and some incentive. i am seeing high schools create

an expectation that you will serve so many public service hours in order to graduate. you can imagine colleges viewing a year of service as a positive for admissions. you can imagine building on precedents like city year were people do a year of service are given scholarships to use towards their college education. so we need to think about reinforcing that expectation with real concrete incentive for young people to go out and actually take advantage of these opportunities that were able to expand. there's a whole lot of concrete steps that need to be taken. i did want to add one more thought. i think this is a critical moment. general mcchrystal been after beating this drum, walter, everybody on the stage and so many others. we are heading into a presidential transition and a renewal of congress. this is a key moment to get this

idea in the platforms of both parties, of all the candidates, no matter their political stripes, to say this is a good idea for america, this is not a partisan idea, it's a smart idea. and to really move is to try to keep it up as one of the main initiatives for a new administration, a new president and a new congress going forward. >> i want to talk more about that in a moment. congressman, from your perspective, what comes next? >> i think this is tough and i think the realities in congress today, that awful lot of things that don't get done because of the far right. this is yet another issue the far right is supposed to. think we are to be honest about the politics. as a community of people invested in national service who want to see it succeed, we've got to talk to the opposition. we've got to speak about national service in a language that the opponents understand and can relate to.

>> far right are not opposed to national service. they are opposed to how to do it? >> it depends on what your definition of national service is, but look, expanding americorps which for many people seems like a very obvious thing to do given the demand. it's something the far right calls paid volunteerism. if you look at the ways that an expanded national service program what i think improve the quality of the military, not by making the military bigger but by and large in the applicant pool, people who are interested in national service may consider the military. that's a great argument and yet there's still a lot of people who are opposed to it. i think it's important to speak about national service in broader terms than just the idea of service to the country but also, let's look at the economics. let's look a what a difference between making our communities. let's look at what long-term investment, what the long-term rewards are return on the investments are.

i think their impressive. the best piece of legislation ever passed is the g.i. bill, just by looking at the cost-benefit analysis. 1 dollar invested for about $7 in return is a common figure thrown around. if you expanded the g.i. bill to the civilian component what would that look like? i don't know. when i get out of the marines in 2008 i would do a conference on national service in columbia and was the only, my understanding it was the only time in the 2008 campaign when senator obama and senator mccain appeared on the same stage at the same time talking about the same thing, but on the same side of the issue. it was extraordinary for me as a young veteran who were just gotten out of, just come back from the surge in iraq to meet so many other national service veterans who had not had the same experience as i did but yet churchill much in common. the commonalities i had with a

teach for america veteran from new orleans was not something i expected to see, and yet i saw that there at that moment. there is the potential to really find political agreement on both sides of the aisle. i think it's tough. >> so talking about this moment, that you mentioned, world war ii. the age of terrorism, the war of terrorism, the surge on isis. events like paris and terrorism coming closer to western europe, posted to the united states. what are any of you hearing when it comes to the younger generation on their way up that wants to do something about it, the wants to get involved in a way that, that's different than perhaps just signing up for the military, or includes that, or any other white? >> i think one of the things that is a danger is that we look at something like isis is a

fairly no terrorist threat and, therefore, we want to do a fairly narrow counterterrorist response to it, the military and whatnot. i think that is failing to see a broader picture and the broader requirement. so isis is reflective of a collapsed region with all kinds of problems and then isis itself is a multiheaded hybrid that is not just a military problem. i think when we talk about having america prepare for this kind of threat, which i don't think isis is a lack of this kind of threat, i think isis is just another in what will be a succession of these. what we really need to do in terms of national security is have a sense that every american is a part of this. all otheall of the things that a more unified society. really security begins with being a society that gets things

done over the political level but at the local level at, as well. it's also educating our young people. then at the more i guess tactical and we've got to be able to field diplomats and business people and ngo people who have the ability operate in the world with a sense of confidence and certain skills, many of which come from this kind of experience. one of the things we found it was a challenging when we first got tested hard by al-qaeda in iraq was that the different parts of the federal government, department of state and the cia and whatnot were in the silos. the defense department and even the military was in separate silos internally. when we tried to pull together a cohesive, multiparty response to it, we had terrific problems. we spoke different languages. we had completely different backgrounds. they were all serving theoretically the same

government for the same cause but we didn't have those connections. i think this experience starts to build those which i think will be really important. >> if i could just add, i think the phrase that comes to my mind is resilience. having the ability to bounce back, which we have done time and time again in our history. i mean, that is the history of the united states is that we get knocked down and we stand back. we reinvent ourselves. we find a way forward. i think a national service program that they didn't go not necessary mandatory but with the expectation that this is something you do as an american citizen, as a sort of rite of passage to adulthood, that this would be something that would really invest in that fabric of

resilience. first at the individual level by creating these young leaders and giving him that shared experience but also at the committee level because they would do working to the extent they would be working in fashion inside the clinic they would working at some of the lease resilient communities in the united states try and help turn them around and give them a sense of hope and potential for the future. >> out just add that to really drill down on the threat of terrorism and where this could make a difference i think we are not winning the fight against terrorism because we are not applying the full resources of the united states government. when we have a problem in baghdad we sent in troops and that's it. with isis came in from syria, they didn't just defeat the iraqi army. the iraqi army put its weapons down and window because of lost faith in the government. what our government's response? we just send military trainers, that's it, trained iraq is going

to fix iraqi politics. how many of you are on twitter? there are good number of twitter folks in the office, right? i would venture to say there's probably no when you this morning who is as good at twitter as isis. and we invented twitter, like not that long ago. twitter should not, isis should not be beating us on twitter and yet they are killing us on twitter. they are recruiting people right from your in america over social media. so in order to really win this fight we've got to apply a much broader range of u.s. resources. and you know what, you going to find some people who may not want to join the marines or may not be qualified to be an army ranger, but i really good at social media into helping us fight. you're going to find some people who are a lot older than myself for even anyone on this been gorgeous really good at figuring

out political problems in the middle east. we could've played into that fight. i was a platoon commander in the nation, i had a platoon, first company marines into baghdad. too much let us asked to run tv station. i was given a tv station, a radio station and a newspaper in baghdad. as we know there was no real plan for after the invasion so it was a second lieutenant assigned to run the iraqi media for south-central iraq. rupert murdoch had nothing on me in the middle of iraq in 2003. i wasn't qualified to do that. i was coming back, no one had ever training on basic media training, let alone how to run a tv station. that's a job that should have been done by someone else. that's one of the opportunities i think with national service, to really help our national natl security. >> so but i think both seth and michele lynn jorde, military

service, we think right now if you're in the service, so it is my son or daughter is in the service, you think uniform service that if someone is a veteran you think a veteran of military service. i'm not sure that we haven't about that terminology to become too narrow. because just as self-described and michele as well, what we really need is a much broader set of capabilities without everybody be in uniform because you don't need them in uniform and that's not where the talent is best focused, but yet their service should be like two sides of the same coin. military service and other service ought to be equally respected. it out to be equally rewarded and about to be equally encouraged. when we think about it when a person comes of age, the discussion around the dinner table should be, so where are you planning to serve? and any of these spectrum things would be fine. they bring what they are best and whatnot, but we have to step

away from the idea that only military service is asked to board the airline first. why couldn't jetblue airlines say all people who are going to national, a year of national service board first. i mean, little things that would respect of the people, why couldn't we have a g.i. bill for producers and make it a service built ask i love president obama's idea community college free. my wife says just put a comment at the nsa right after you finish your year of service. because then they have invested, they get something but they pay for it incorrectly. do you know what they mean? but the country gets a win both ways. we get people with better values who served in the get people who take part in education. >> how about student loan forgiveness for those? >> i think all of those things should be tied to this. they are investments in the natures future i believe.

>> correct me if i'm wrong, i don't have any type of talk coming from either candidates, republican or democrat or even the white house saying what really need is what you're saying, a whole of government, a whole of country, a whole notion that tradition approach. i don't hear that in the president's message. it's so targeted on the military campaign, the region has to pacify itself. the grand foreign policy in politics that we're used to hearing about, not any kind of call to action for the country. >> i actually think that there was a missed opportunity in that

regard right after 9/11. in terms of calling on americans to everyone find a way to do something to help our national resilience, to find some way to serve. i actually think, unfortunately, the sort of emergence of the isis threat and particularly what's happened in paris, i think this is another moment where the call could and should be made. i was interested to read that, you know, in france they are having a similar response of overwhelming response from young people to try to join whatever they can join, which military, police, intelligence services, whatever, how can i do my part in the wake of this. and again this is the time to open up the aperture so military service or service in the intelligence community, although

wonderful and why for some people, it's not going to be right for everybody, so let's open up the aperture to take advantage of that desire and create other opportunities. just on this, there are obvious a wonderful opportunity to serve at home but are serving abroad i just want to underscore the point that congressman moulton made. when we put together the afghan strategy, it was clear to a military campaign that was going to create stability but that was going to great space for other things to happen. those other things had to be in the political and economic and other domains. and yet it was so hard to create a civilian search, defined as people who could go abroad and run the media station, help create the new afghan free media will take a newly stabilize area and make sure we got the economic development peace right, or help ensure that

political reform was proceeding apace in kabul. we just, it was so hard to get the talent and then to sustain over the course of the campaign. i think a national service program could be a way that not only do in young people but perhaps people with more experience and expertise. it would be another way to help meet those requirements when they do occur abroad. >> could have cleared a pool from which to take from, i remember secretary gates was considering mobilizing reservists to do these civilian jobs. he said just send them in plain clothes out of their uniforms. >> we were combing the military reserves for people with civilian skills. were on the agricultural experts, where are the city planners, where are the folks who have built media? it was challenging because the system wasn't really built for the. >> i think that's the point, the

system is not just bill. that painful peace is the are all on americans out there who want to contribute these talen talents. >> we will get to a good section for questions to the and so have them ready. same thing for those of us watching online. there should be hopefully a good amounamount of folks online whod maybe through twitter or semi-get us some questions to us as well. you said that is not a system for it and there's a lot of need and a lot of desire. how do you create the system? what is step one? are we going to have the same problems of organizations creating their own things and duplicating themselves and this giant, you know, mashup opportunities that every individual college counselor will have to sift through versus having one or some sort of centralized organization that we're going to be the clearinghouse, we are the

funding organization to connect the skills to the needs, to be the recruiting office, be the pr public face. you're talking about an enormous undertaking. >> can i take the first part of that? >> take it all. >> the service a year of lines which, frankly, is a part of has taken a great step forward. there's much more to do. there are some practical things that have to be done. a digital platform has been created that's going to create a marketplace. at the end of this year will be open for business, and young people and the prints will be able to go online and look at the various opportunities, organizations like ngos or others that have opportunities to put those in line. donors or of the people who want to support can go online and provide funding. you will be able see what the requirements are for certain position, connect with people who have done it or are doing it so parents and young people will be able to look inside, is that right for me? is it safe fo or my son or daugr

and that sort of thing. that's going to create a much more efficient tool to allow us to make this work. the are a number of other things we've got to do as well. one is we've got to create incentives. one of the greatest incentives is expectation. if you are parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, have done service, that creates an expectation but also you want to get around the lunch table at school. you got it where enough people have done it so you're not the albino unicorns who's doing it that no one else has ever thought of. you've got to have the opportunity. then you got to get different elements to support this and we don't a lot of work with universities. we are trying to get universities to do several things. one we're trying to get them to give preferential admission if you serve. try to get on the application of digits or? nobody will want to get any in a good school wants to put no. there are other schools like

started first by tufts, put in programs like the one plus for. you apply and accepted for for your program you had a year at the beginning and you do national service for a year and you belong to tufts for the whole five years. one of the things it does is it takes the angst away from parents. your young daughter or son applied to a school and then they say i would want to go up into city year for you, i want to do the peace corps and you go, you know, you barely got into that school, we don't want to chance that one. >> have you met my parents? >> and then you go he's guaranteed because under this, a year from now they did in. or maybe it's two plus one or some combination thereof. didn't want to get business, and there's a set of businesses, which my own is one that gives, up front says we are employers of national service. we value national service. what we want to do is get back

with a lot more tea so tha the g name companies, and let's just pick goldman sachs. i've been talking to them. we would like goldman sachs is it okay, we ca get a few upright new person coming out of yale. what are you and what you do a year of national service and your job is waiting for you as soon as you finish national service. guaranteed. if we don't fish and passionate if you don't finish national service, apply elsewhere. if we could create that expectation were all businesses were doing that, then at high-end of course, only a small group of people are going to apply to goldman sachs, but bigger compass could do the same thing. they could give guaranteed jobs, preferential hiring, all kinds of things that make it easier to incentivize. at the backend we talked about those things like g.i. bill or other things that make it easier. right now for young person to do national service is a little scary because you can fall behind your peers. your parents worry you will not get on with whatever you will do

next. we've got to take those away, make this not something you got to jump over. got to make a bridge across this so it is the easiest way to go. if it's thesis way to go, those who have doubts i think would be more likely to do it. >> what other differences between private sector, public university, they need or desire or ideas to make is that? >> everybody i talked to is for it. one of the problems with this issue is, with exception of people who are worried about the funding of it, our opposition is inertia. do nothing. and so we kind of say, that's nice, and when i talk to a lot of groups that go that's a nice idea. you can see they're going, but it's july, two door, too wide, to whatever. we just can't do stuff like that in america anymore. if you stop and think about that, that's really scary. if that's what we are saying. i tell people, i read a book

about the building of the board and. at the end of it the opposite this was an amazing thing. we couldn't do it now. we could never get a different states to agree on the water rights and all the things. we just couldn't get that level of a thing because it takes too much coordination and agreement. this is that kind of thing. what i would say is what we've got to do is convince people the valley is so great and the need is so compelling that we step back from our fears and we do it. >> the irony is that state in some ways there's a lot of thinkers out there who are much smarter than i do think the reason we can't do big things like that is because we don't have national service, because we don't have comment experience. we've never had fewer veterans in congress in our nation's history today. a lot of veterans talk about how it was different. when you knew that you might have political differences but

you could focus on what was best for america when you came to congress because you let that comment experience of fighting together in the war. >> is some about a product of necessity versus opportunity? meaning there's a lot of nepotism about the old days but there i was also massive unemployment and people needed these jobs. it was a purposeful top down government way to get everyone organized which ended up with these gigantic public works projects. thinking of it in that light, is there a need for american kids to say, i'm going to take a year off and go help the world, when i get us into the workforce and a lot of them make a good villages keep going. or do not feel the connection like these are what the military. you are not part of the 1%, not feel the connection to the war on terror, not feel the connection to anything to do with global security which is industry, we are in the aspen institute, dupont circle, they did it.

>> i don't think that's a general assessment of how things are going. i think there is a need for this because it will make us a stronger nation. >> but do you think people believed it enough to do it, or is it going to require a very coordinated top down, somebody, they do like a 4-star general, to organize it and force this on americans and say this has to happen and you, america, need to get going with this? >> i think is both. i think you need senior leaders using their bully pulpit to create a top down call for this, and to do it across sections of government, parties, civil, military and so forth. but i also think it's going to resonate because i think americans, we may not have the economic crisis we face at the time that you mentioned, i think there is a crisis of public confidence in our government and

our ability to come together as a society and to work across the aisle and to make decisions and compromises and move things forward. i think you see both anger but also a potential for apathy. i think a lot of young people are looking for something positive to contribute to moving things forward. government has been decried is not the way to go. the partisanship is very polarizing, but i do think there's a window that people feel this is not, we are not our best self. we are not short our best selves and i want to be a part of something that does show america's, contributed american resilience and appealing to our higher angels or whatever the right phrase is. a living our values more fully. i do think that, again, just talking among my kids and their friends and other young people i

meet, there is a certain hunger to do something differently than what is being offered to them right now. so if you have the call from the bully pulpit, you have some investment both public and private sector, and you created some opportunity i really do think you have a lot of people taking up the incentives. >> go the other direction, crowdsourced stuff that i'm going to mention the lack of trust in institutions. i will put our sister, "national journal," and ron brownstein has done excellent work on just that, the real decline in trust of any large institution. >> the most frequent question i received last you was not how to improve obamacare of what to do about isis. it was why are you doing this? you have so many opportunities. why do you want to run for congress? that's not a good thing. if they are saying you are kind of talented.

wide you want to go to congress? that's a real problem for us as a country and for government. and by the way, there are five or so americorps applicants are at the one slot today. if you expanded opportunities you would see that number go up. you would see demand rise. when i decided, graduated in june 2001 from college. when i decided to join the military was before september 11. one of my best friends from college used to meet for breakfast. dilettante he ever got seriously angry at me was the day i told her i was joining the marines. and he slammed his tray down. i remember exactly where we are sitting and said, that's a stupid, slightly more colorful terms and he walked out. he felt the way because he cared deeply about the. and almost like a parent did what we did do something that would be a waste of my time. a year later he joined the army.

and he didn't join the army because i was some later he wanted to follow up or anything like that. we were just good friends but we did share the same values. because i've gotten into marines, it may seem like something that wasn't so strange or weird to do as a harvard graduate when you went out into the world. that's the hope to we've got to get over to just make this an expectation in decide society bi don't think it's actually that hard speak before we go to the audience then, i want of all you get specific. you rent the war, helped design a workout you executed a war. to put it bluntly. what skills are needed, specific on what other skills for national security, whether it's rifleman or diplomat or city planner, agricultural engineer? expand on that idea if you can go out right now and tell universities, tell goldman

sachs, tell any institution, whatever the outcome this is what we need an american kids to start doing so that the u.s. is better prepared in the next five, 10, 430 war against, the 100 year war whatever it is, specific to national security. what do we need right now? >> is problem solving because you don't know what problems you will get an auto care if you're in this part of the state or cia or military, you will do something. we can't predict the next war. to be honest the shooting part is the easy part. is the problem solving that is the hard part. the cycle of the cultural acuity particularly to work outside of your own culture. sometimes just across the united states in different zip codes but also in foreign countries. the kinds of experiences i'd want young people to go somewhere, be part of a team, solve problems in a culture that you didn't grow up in. some of the should be overseas so unida maneuver with confidence in different cultures and develop enough empathy that

other people's perspectives are not automatically wrong. we suffer from that. if you do those two things, all the other technical skills you could teach people along the way. then don't bother me at all. so those two basic experientially things i think are key. spin what do you think? would you want to send your kids to the middle east to learn cultural skills at a time like this? >> it would depend on the situation. by potentially. i would just add two or three more to the starting with. and one is the experience of doing something really hard and not giving up. and working to the obstacles and the adversity to get to some level of success. and that experience of

persistence and fighting for a problem to get to the other side i think is really important. i also think that some experience of just leadership, having an opportunity no to not only be part of a team it in a certain task very are for certain. of time be the leader, be someone who is in charge of inspiring and directing and guiding other people in your. group. and then the last thing is the sort of planning and execution peace. so many people sort when committed leader done when you get the president to make the speech and the policy-based data. wrong. that's the beginning of the process. but having people who actually know how to take an idea and develop, to the planning and the assessment and the work to actually figure out how to

implement, and they can surmount obstacles, deal with all the uncertainties that will pop up and ruin your initial plan, and i got to adapt and adjust. i think that kind of adaptive planning, implementation, kind of experience also could be extremely valuable for developing these young people's future. >> i will just add one more characteristic which is the opportunity to have a tremendous responsibility but also the potential to fail. i think one of the things the military does well is pushes you very far. gives you tremendous responsibility at a young age that understands that some people are going to fail. the institution of the project will survive in spite of it. i can tell you how much i learned as a young person of some of the failures i had in the military, not just the successes. >> i'll add an observation, sort of an advocacy point, i think too often the skilled in

washington is greatly underestimated. if global leadership is the goal or a greater cause of people to do it, end up being whether you're a rifleman or agricultural or a digger or whatever it is. that's the skill for the time for now, but you can come back to washington, the people in washington who can advocate and be the champion for that issue. we know what happens in washington. so to the audience. let's have some good questions for this wonderful panel. a quick hand right in the front. please tell us your name, where you're from, who you are, keep it short and ask a question on going to cut you off. >> on the president of the hampton college. i'm also on the senior counsel on the finder was i was in the air force.

i love the idea of the two sides at the same going to i we should have literally a coin that has two such, national service and military service. i think a lot of people would put up for free, i want to advocate the vatican because young people like shiny things. so let's give them a shiny thing to put in a pocket, let them know they're connected. >> an actual coin. >> a challenge going to even as a journalist, you got that. don't cut me off now. last thing, last two things very quickly. for teaching university of oklahoma, teaching at robert morris. i had one native american kid, enacted america get both cut into teach for america. and i've never they didn't have much money. they didn't have much resources. so as i was advising them they violate how i said i know you want to do this add up encouraging you to, but i know you need some resources. both of them into the, one would

wear private school to teach, one went to morgan stanley. we lost two great young people but did we lose them? how do we deal with that chasm, to any government support to give them the resources? some people to the law treat or feel like you have the luxury to serve because they need to handle the bills. >> this is a good point. that have to military especially for either economic disadvantage or minority, was financial, a quick way to a paycheck and a quick way to g.i. bill. to get the skill but if you going to go do national service not just on this right away, how do you keep them from getting, going down a path that leads them away from national security? >> i think it's a bit of a mistake to say that everybody who isn't in the military, even a large percentage is for financial reasons. i knew in my platoon, if you

ended up in the marines come in this country and a place you really wanted to be there. spirit subcategories. >> i think the point is you can't feel a consequence, a real negative consequences to doing national service. i know, stan, you thought about this a lot. >> it gets to the point i was trying to say about the bridge. it's got to be considered a good thing, not a bad thing. so if a person decides to to teach for america instead of morgan stanley they shouldn't feel like this is either or. they should feel like it is and about. so places like big businesses of all kinds ought to be just anxious to grab people as they come out of service. it ought to be well known to everybody serving that this is a very advantageous to the the reason, one of the reasons we push it must be in my view, a year, because you want to be completely immersed in it, but it must be paid because you

don't want it limited to people owho of outside money from them or something like that. it's got to be everybody. for people who don't have resources it's got to be, when i, i am more advantaged than i was going in. it's not like i gave up a year or two and i behind my peers. it means of going to be a step ahead of them. this gives them incentives. >> ivan an when i applied to different companies after school, like most college graduates couldn't decide what i wanted to national services was one option but applied to several companies and it was one company is said to me we would rather have you go serve in the military for a few years and then come and work for us in the future because we think you'll be a better leader. every other coverages had come right now. it was burlington northern santa fe railway to the first comment i called when i got out was bnsf because i value that they valued my experience. spent what you can become a

railway man, a conductor? >> i spent a year working on a high-speed rail project in texas before i ran for congress. >> and there you go. this young woman in the front. >> anastasia. i'm also a young leader with the franklin project. i've been hearing a lot about part of the barrier is actually parents. so i'm wondering if there's some sort of strategy as well to engage them? i'm thinking about mom bloggers. i know government would study abroad has really done a lot of engagements from the and its work. i know the u.n. foundation i helped to engage bomb bloggers a lot to educate people around vaccines. i think part of the barrier that parents are scared both from one, financial reasons and to do with her children to go out and be potentially absorb. but if their educate more than thethey're more likely to push their kids go serve.

>> no, i didn't there's a huge public education component to this, and parents coming teaching parents to reassure them that not only first of all it's safe, but also that it's advantageous. i love the idea of, having to go through the application, putting the box on a college application form that says, did you serve and having that be a plus. that's one of the most powerful things you can do for any parent who's trying to help their child's advancement is they see anything that is a plus is going to get their attention. then you couple that with the digital marketplace where they can go and look at real opportunities, you know, what might work for their children, hear from real people who've already done, had that experience. i think this potential, but you're right. the word has got -- the word has to be gotten out.

it is slightly scary to most parents right now. >> front row. we will work our way around. >> kathy with blue star families. i had the opportunity to about a couple of books in 2006-2008 that thought a lot about national service an and a guideo research the topic. everyone wants national service. we need to public opinion polls, a majority of people are interested in a national service and the majority of young people are in favor of it, too. they see a benefit if there's not a price tag associate with it. i don't think you need to spend time convincing people that national service of some kind of a voluntary one is good idea. every system is perfectly designed to get alchemic its. we don't have national service right now because our system is designed to not have a. i think you're exactly right that lowering the transaction

cost and increasing the incentives would get something we already have a large recognition that we need to do. the are two opportunities that spring to mind to me in addition because i think excellent you also just a. one is that rotc developed as a concept in america because the major universities demanded it. they said as america was becoming a great power, we needed an officer corps that was trained in the civilian values. i think if you could mobilize the franklin project could mobilize many of the major college presidents to call for this and to include it on the common application but also to make a positive thing, that's an opportunity. i also wonder if the selective service moment isn't an opportunity to ask people to consider this and perhaps built in something more structured. it's something that's already existed in law. >> can't i take that? kathy and i are old friends that

i completely agree with everything you just said. we've been working with the college presidents and whatnot a lot, you could support a colleges, and this is not to be negative, our conservative institutions. some of the things i would like to see is lowered transaction costs are we have military recruiting stations and right now in some places you'd separate marine corps, navy, air force, what if you had a recruiting service, you go in and one and you have the marine corps, one place you got the peace corps, and other place you got all of these different opportunities so if you're walking and you're not suitable for what you can go to the other. in just economies of things like getting your data. there certain things, biometrics they had to get come and a pair to go into this place and they could be physical places and they could be virtual. so as a consequence as you're doing this, the opportunity to

say i'm here to serve, there's this whole spectrum of where do i fit? i just think it's abou it's a cg idea but it gets a lot of different entities that have not traditionally worked together to hold their nose into to the same place and do it. i think it would just be really powerful. >> do you think human resource command is going to let the peace corps -- >> i think if the military doesn't have a good enough product to compile itself, that would make it better. if you think about it, it would always make everyone would have to keep tuning their product. >> there will be a lot of 18 year old kids is that i wasn't going to do anything. if i had the expectation to do something, i'm not going to be in the peace corps, i'm going to be an army ranger, joined the marines. the number of applicants goes up. the talent pool tempers and is going to benefit the military a

lot to do this. >> back there with the glasses. wait for the microphone please. >> good morning. thank you for this great conversation. we bring leaders from around the world to volunteer in the united states and americans to serve overseas. congressman come unto go in with a new comment about how isis is out social media, and let you think that as part of this conversation it needs to talk about how more americans need to serve overseas through peace corps and other programs, particularly muslim majority countries, and, frankly, leaders from around the world may become answered in the united states. so we can find ways to work together and to notch his counter violent extremism and social media but counter extremism working side-by-side. it can be a larger conversation about the service in general, i

think, helps solve both problems at home and around the world which as we've seen in paris and around the world we need new answers for. we need new solutions. >> a plug for exchanges as a national service option. >> i've been out of the past couple weeks about the importance of keeping the open door for syrian refugees, and for targets of isis. i think we're harming our national security to shut off the flow of refugees because something isis can use against us. and i'll tell you, i've gotten more e-mails from fellow military veterans who have talked about how they word about the afghan or iraqi terms are much they learned brings us alister to the united states in support of my position to i think it speaks to exactly what you are saying. these military veterans can look, disproportionate republicans and conservatives by some measures that have cultural experience overseas so they get this issue much better than a lot of americans. >> this gentleman with the

beard. >> thanks. my name is dave, i'm with a comment that helps kansas to talk about foreign policy issues. i think all the routes you discussed today have been college-bound routes. i for harvard and yale talked about from the stage probably 99% of the folks in this room have a college degree. 70% of americans don't go to college. within the 30% of that dude the our huge economic and racial disparities. our goal is uniting people around a shared experience. i were that were only thinking about college-bound route, taking a more narrow segment of the 30% and making it an elite extremes, not a shared experience. i would if you to talk about the? >> i think you probably haven't been listening to everything we said. because we talked about the requirement that it would be a paid experience of every part of

our social strata can do that. we talked about employers, not just the high-end. [applause] we talked about wal-mart and others. you're exactly right come it's got to be for all young americans because one of the things were looking for is something that connects all young americans first to each other. the other national part, but the reality is what we have been pushing for is it has a greater participation now at the high-end because people can afford to do it. and it tends to be a background. we are trying to knock that down and that's why you need incentives. we talk about the bridge come if someone is in a tough neighborhood now and the opportunity is go do a year of service or get a job when it's available right now, and have to support somebody, then they got to grab the nearest thing. it's just the obvious thing to do so the crowd. i think you're exactly right. we've got to make it a leveling, a cross leveling experiences so that we don't have unique zip

code experience or education level experience or religion or anything else. as charles murray captured so well in coming apart, we are fragmented in so many ways we don't even recognize. this could be that unifying thing. i tell people sometimes my first platoon in the army, i was a paratrooper from a platoon leader in the 1970s. the army was not at his best in the 1970s. my platoon when they ran out of money at the end of the month they had an electric cord and plug in the wall and they separated the two leads to understand is basically we charge itself. we laugh about that and go what a bunch of knuckleheads. but they were glory young paratroopers. mossad not, i don't think any have gone to college. many had some very tough upbringings but they're great young americans, fearless young paratroopers and they were the

kind of people that went i spend time with them i came away better. they took the young west point graduate who had grown up kind of in suburbia and they made me a better person. and i think that happens to all of us both ways. >> i rely on those guys today. we talk almost every day and i told them, just in my new job as the congressman come if you ever see me losing touch, becoming one of them in washington can i want you to call me out on it. i looked to my fellow marines more than any other group of friends to do that. >> lets go back to the front row. a question waiting patiently. >> thank you all very much. my name is laura like kelly. i worked with a kid institute of in boston, so like a presidential library but for congress. we are looking at how to bring

congress into 21st century essentially. the bad news about congress as you pointed out, congressman, is people watch house of cards are the good news is that congress is organized enough to be that awful. [laughter] >> acute observation spent i worked on the hill as a civil military person helping both democrats and republicans and it is my impression that the military had support systems for information supply and decision-making that we could bring in for civilian decision support. today, the possibility for legislatures are immense. like michele, i've known forever, for all our work, how would you look at a unified security budget? how would you look at a system that i can compare across southern and military so we can prioritize? i think mr. ryan would be interested in this, and these tools are available now, data

feeds in committee hearings. there's all these young people with tremendous technical skills in every district in this country and i'm wondering, are you working with technologists and civic technologists in your district? do you see that as one way to realign the interest of young people with governing? i would love to know where you've seen this? i feel like that is the sweet spot for service and renewal in the modern era. ..

who are interests in things like big data analytics to support and help target where we focus our opportunities for national service because even if we were wildly successful in what we've all been talking about here this morning, the actual need, the communities that could use that kind of attention and support, the need is so overwhelming, to even what we could imagine being able to provide in terms of a supply. you're going to need people to help figure out where is the highest, best application of these resources and i think getting young people who are very technology literate and, are interested in that kind of

analysis to be part of a national service structure would be, i haven't heard that idea before but it's a really good one. >> this side in the back, waving your hand. i saw you earlier. >> my my name is shaun. thank you for the talk. former military officer. finishing my phd in kings college london and member of the national security project. my question is really about principles. we started by talking with general mcchrystal about the founding documents of the country and i noticed this interrelationship between national security as a concept and national service as a concept. it seems like one of the problems if we need a lot of public sector funding, getting people to agree, not just what the nature of national service is, but what the nature of national security is. and a lot of people, at least in this town, part of the narrative, they want to be

restrict tiff what that means. limited to military and kinetic aspects of military stuff. we're aswe're talking about education of communities, public diplomacy. i guess question is if we want to do national service and promote that how do we shape the narrative what it means in the 21st century to promote our national security? >> i would start -- i think that's a great question. when we try to articulate it, i think i do a poor job, i talk about citizenship is the sinew that ties together a nation and that kind of organization as michelle is resilient and can deal with emerging problems because you can never anticipate all the problems. the challenge with that you're talking about something not as easily objectively counted as

military units and things like that and also we tend to look at crises in short-term fashion. we think of isis as a crisis, an existential crisis. in the great scheme of existential crises i don't think it is one. it is a problem in the world but it is not a crisis. there are crisis that face america. the inability to govern ourselves effectively could be a crisis if it continues. i think education can be kind of thing that is a crisis that weakens our nation. put income narrative so we put into perspective of things that really matter because a lot of your solutions take a really long time. we're talking about a something we're investing in number of generations year after year, and the payoff comes in decades, not a year or two. it is harder to mobilize people to invest this that kind of a thing if the payoff is longer and this is where it comes back

what they were talking about with data. i really think we can harness data to support this. this is not a solution to everything but it could connect some things like one of the numbers we see if you do national service you have a much higher likelihood of voting in the future, of volunteering in the future, of all the things that we normally equate with active citizenship. if we can tie those kinds of things back, if we tie them back you do better in a job, all those kind of things, the more we can tie those i think would help us but i think we're imperfect at that argument right now. >> i think we need to study kind of like what you mentioned about the g.i. bill where i'm pretty sure, franklin made initial efforts in this regard actually

yields multiple dollars, well-being of communities in the united states. and on an individual level, probably earning potential that individual over their lifetimes. >> i'll stress, you mentioned data and databases and biometricses and difference. when i graduated college a few years before you, not so much longer, my older brother gave me a book that was something like 24 jobs in social justice. 24. that is what i knew. that was your data set you were connected to, how do i start my life and career doing something i was interested in national affairs versus massive amounts of data that comes with this kind of a project. >> quickly, general mcchrystal, what a leader tufts is. i was up at tufts speaking last week. the dirty little secret of this

program we'll have better students and better graduates because they're doing national service. they're not just doing something good for the country but food for them to. >> that's right. >> this woman in the red hair next. >> hi. i'm truman national security fellow and i colead the front line civilians initiative with rebecca zimmerman. i wanted to ask you, you talked about the things like spectrum of service, need for recognition of different things that come in that spectrum of service, but then also a need to inspire and incentivize individuals to want to do this sort of things. they want to dot service but how you get them into the specific jobs to make it the most important thing and i want to point out that the front lines civilian community that exists, these are aid workers, diplomats, journalists you know, ngo workers who are essentially ambassadors, who are serving on front lines now and served on the front lines in the past and are people that can stand up and inspire young individuals tell

them exactly what value of national service is. one of the things we see as challenge, you general, mentioned this issue of recognition of that service and recognition of those tours that were also done in afghanistan and iraq and mali and elsewhere. how can we come back to that, getting the american public realizing value of that service that will inspire them to send their kids to those places? >> one thing you need to have, veterans need to speak up. veterans need to talk about this. on the armed services committee, i haven't done any study, but it seems like the veterans, people who spent time in the middle east, who really understand the need for political component to our fight more than anybody else. it is people who haven't fought who quickly say, just bomb them, just bomb them. i think that's one place where we can help. >> i think also trying to get frankly media interest in telling some of these stories. >> i'm here.

>> i've been involve with another ngo called the partnership for public service. every year they do the sammys award. awards in various sectors from foreign affairs to national security from health to economics and they basically profile remarkable civil service. they save billions of dollars on a program or invented a drug that will help cure a type of cancer. just unbelievable stories and we have killed ourselves trying to get some kind of media coverage. like take a couple of award winners and do little profiles on cnn or in defense one or whatever, it is like pulling teeth. so they take, you know, do a profile of a veteran in a second but they won't necessarily profile -- so i think, you know, trying to create some traction in the media, trying to tell

these stories so people are aware but also creating that pathway. you know, how do i, okay, once you inspire someone how do i become like you? how do i follow in those footsteps and lay out the bridge so people know how to walk across it if they are inspired. >> let me take it even another step further. there are some people right now who have a megaphone, we get 50 or 60 people to listen to us. donald trump is getting 30,000. if you could get, i don't single him out, but if you could get candidates to show real political courage, to stand up and say, this is something i believe in, be specific enough, yeah, i believe in service, everybody should serve and leave it so afor must means everything to whoever is hearing it is not very valuable, but if someone stands up and says, they will take a heat for it, if you stand up and say two sides of the coin, some veterans say you're

taking stuff away from my, not many, some people will have reasons against it. but if we believe in it and we want to do it while somebody has the podium when people will listen i think people ought to say it. i'm listening for it and i haven't her much yet. >> we'll have lots to ask about the candidates. probably time for one more. before the last question, the truman national security project has been mentioned, we should explain, i wrote about this project in future article in defense one "national journal" last year but it is interesting example, but it's, because of the political need, service organization was created. so it is an interesting hybrid but definitely it's a partisan one where they base themselves, their story they base themselves off heritage, as they call old boy network to help get like minded folks elected and get

elected to populate government jobs. so some young democrats came together to form different organizations and out of it, long story, truman was born, basically organized on left, democrats, people interested in national security who wanted to come to washington to get experience in think tanks, government, military, different organization, so when their candidates are elected they're ready to go and jump in and be effective governing managers of these institutions. it was very successful. they will say themselves, they're at next level. all right, we did that. obama was elected. a lot of people are second-term veterans and want to be part of a future administration, maybe more actually, but what comes next to sustain that movement? but that is partisan movement. the idea of that we're stalking around a little bit -- talking around a little bit of that outside of politics but still rooted in national security,

that element of national service. if you're interested in that look up truman. >> [inaudible] >> two quick questions. this gentleman in middle had hand up entire time. give me quick question and this quick question and we'll answer both to wrap it up. >> my name is tom, i went to school very focused on service, one of the things interested to me those studied math, science, engineering, the choice of going into service was to let our skills atrophy to lose job opportunities f you haven't looked at code for a year employers are heart pressed to say they don't care. discussion about teach for america, those things, are there any work you're doing to foster stem opportunities? >> question on stem and we have this gentleman on the other side. take both questions, wrap them up because our panelists need to be on their way. >> hi, i'm paul shelton, retired

colonel, just retired from the army g8. before that with the army capabilities integration center where we integrate all these disparate things and put money toward them. before that i was a senior service college fellow at tufts. i think the, well, as i sit here, and i make observations about each one of these people's experience it occurs to me that in the army we don't do anything without a requirement. we are requirements-driven organization. if congress doesn't mandate it, if dod doesn't mandate it, we're not doing it. so i think the congressman's mission here is, and i'm sorry if i'm giving my opinion here but the congressman's mission here is huge and we got to get

behind the congressman. but i think, our lines of effort need to be well-drawn, and that creation of validated requirement is key. i think we're all behind this. i'm behind it but i think that, that is the critical element in this discussion. >> okay. so both questions. requirement means that that anything you're advocating for and it's support for stem jobs and opportunity. >> i do think we could set a national requirement not to be framed in some legislation and really, we have been thinking about how to sort of structure the different lines of service if you will, military, global

health, public health, economic an community resilience-related and others but i really like the idea of a kind of digital service component. i mean you see this now coming up in government. the u.s. digital service has been formed. different departments are forming. you could also envision a track of national security or national service that would leverage, i mane sort of a hack for your country for a year. not necessarily hack, could be hacking, could be big data analytics. could be creating, you know service-related apps but could be all types of things and creating pipeline for that kind of talent to come spend a year doing this, it is an awesome idea. >> final remarks? >> look, i say i take this responsibility as an advocate for national security in congress and national service very seriously and i very much want to be a congressman who is

known as a leader of this movement. it is why i'm here this morning. i'm working closely, let me take a few minutes as member of congress how to create an efficient bureaucracy. [laughter]. why i'm working to leaders like this to tell us how to do it but i will make a commitment to you and everybody else here this morning that i will do this and work on it in congress. thank you. >> general, wrap us up. >> thanks everybody for coming. i know most of you already support. this is not something that will automatically happen. it will only happen if we make it happen. it will happen but it will take political push, bottom up push and organizational skills and make a generally acceptable good idea practically achievable and that will take an awful lot. i'm committed to it. i know michelle and seth are, and tremendous number of people earlier who do extraordinary work sort of the shadows to make that happen.

anybody we can enlist in that effort and any of your friends i appreciate it. >> ladies and gentlemen, three americans who long ago dedicated themselves to service, undersecretary flournoy, moulton and general mcchrystal. round of applause for them. >> today the heritage foundation will hold a panel discussion on the president's counterterrorism policy you can watch that life starting noon eastern on c-span3. today's canada's governor general david johnson will open the first session of 42nd parliament. with a speech from the thrown. starting at 2:30 p.m. eastern on c-span. hearing on growing use of

mobil payment technology and security challenges. the house commerce and manufacturing trade subcommittee heard from representatives from samsung, paypal and others. this is about two hours. >> subcommittee on commerce, manufacturing and trade will now come to order. the tray recognizes himself for five minutes for an opening statement. i do want to welcome, everyone to our hearing this morning examining mobile payments which are poised to upend how consumers pay for goods and services, in stores, online, in apps and at parking meter. this hearing is the latest in our disruptor series covering a wide variety of technologies redefining our lives and improving our economic condition. this past week, black friday, small business saturday, cyber monday flooded all of our inboxes and took over commercial breaks on television. as the holiday shopping season is in full swing this is good

time to take a look at the consumer experience with mobile payments. this morning we'll hear from our witnesses representing variety of innovative products and services in the mobile payments arena. this hearing is an opportunity to learn about the innovations that are available to consumers today and those that will be available in the near future but we recognize that there are exciting innovations on horizon for payments including mobile currencies, a topic for another day. smartphones are increasingly more part of our lives. it is also changing the wait we shop for goods an services. you can shop on your tablet, in front of the television, compare bryces on your phone as you browse in a store and pay without ever pulling out your wallet. consumers have access to more information and more competitive options at the tip of their fingers during the busiest shopping season of the year. there has not been this big of an upheaval how consumers pay

for goods and services from groceries to haircuts since computers replaced the old knuckle buster manuel printers in the 1980s. in 2014, 22% of mobile phone owners reported making a purchase with their phone. 39% used their phones to make a purchase in the store. when you find that perfect christmas gift, you may be able to pay by tapping your phone at checkout or clicking the paypal checkout button on a mobile website. when you want to send your friend money for concert ticket they bought for you, all you need is their email address or their mobile phone number. these mobile payment options include protections not available with cash and easy to use for consumers more likely to have their phone in their pocket than carry the exact change with them. some basic questions remain top of mind for consumers when they think about mobile payments. are they safe? can i use my phone? this hearing is an opportunity

to hear from companies implementing the cutting-edge technologies and mobil payments and how they are addressing these and other concerns raised by consumers. two of the top security topics that are raised by mobile payments are authentication, how the device knows you have permission to make the payment with the device, and tokennization, protecting your payment data through the payment process. we all know passwords are difficult. they are difficult to remember. they're difficult to keep straight. which is why many people, myself not included, but many people simply use their name for their user name and 1, 2, 3, 4s as their password. mobile devices offer alternatives to traditional password that add a layer of protection for consumers. authentication is process system uses to identify identity of person that wants access to their system. password is most typical process

used to log into variety of websites. mobile devices have changed. they have changed how people think about authentication and fingerprints. cameras found increasing number of mobile devices. instead of having to remember a separate password to unlock your phone or tablet you may be able to use fingerprint scanner to unlock the device with just a touch. this protects information on the phone, including access to payment options. another security feature that is regularly brought up in discussions about mobile payments is tokennization. we're all familiar with the tokens you get at the fair or arcade. tokens in a mobile payment system are similar in concept, replacing valuable currency or payment information with a code that then becomes useless for another transaction if someone were to steal it. as has been the case throughout history, technology has the potential to solve problems and improve our lives. mobile payments are no exception to that trend. so i look forward this morning

to hearing from our witnesses and how they're leveraging mix of technologies to provide easy and secure experience for united states consumers as we make our way through this shopping season. and i will yield back the balance of my time and recognize the subcommittee ranking member, miss schakowsky. five minutes for an opening statement, please. >> thank you, mr. chairman, for holding this hearing an series of hearings on disruptors and i just learned that my bank, i can now make a deposit by taking a picture of the front and back of my check and my bank will take it, although it doesn't account for my husband's really bad handwriting. and says that it can't verify that the number i put in is the number he wrote on the check. that's a problem. but i think this holiday shopping season very important to hear from our witnesses about this important new technology. we do expect mobile payments to

double from, today to 2020. one of the fastest growing sectors of the u.s. economy. possible payments do facilitate transactions with anyone from a food truck or farmers' market, taxi driver, parking meter and they have made buying and selling goods and services easier in many ways. but as this technology continues to expand we definitely need to understand how the payment structure works. security, consumer protection vulnerabilities, how to address those issues, is a responsibility of our subcommittee. we want to maximize benefits and minimize risks obviously. mobile payment technologies rely on a number of non-traditional identifiers, geolocation, purchase preference, phone numbers, email addresses. those features enhance protections against payment fraud. however they also put consumers at greater risk if they are

unprotected or if their use extends beyond managing payments. with regard to electronic communications generally, we need to insure that all of the players engaged in mobile payments, hardware and software developers, businesses banks, credit unions, and credit card companies are taking reasonable security measures to protect the information that they're handling. we also need to make sure how consumers know the payment structures differ from more traditional transactions. consumers need to know how consumer financial liability for those payments differ from those using credit or debit cards. they need to know how mobile payments can be used to cram consumers, running up bills they never explicitly approved and as the subcommittee responsible for consumer protection we have the obligation to close those and other existing loopholes that

leave consumers more vulnerable. i look forward to hearing from our witnesses getting perspectives on the challenges and future with regard to mobile payments. i yield back my time. >> the gentlelady yields back. i recognize the chair of the full subcommittee, mr. upton. >> good morning. we continue disruptor series. we examined internet sharing economy and recently drones. we discuss mobile payments. where folks choose to travel, shop, michigan, the nation across the globe their smartphones are ever present, always at ready, provide direction, daily news and scores and even make payments. early estimates show that for the first time ever more people shopped online than stores over thanksgiving holiday. cyber monday estimates are still being tallied but no doubt seeing a fundamental shift how people buying goods and services

available to them throughout our economy. consumers have more choices than ever before about when and where to shop. these choices open up opportunity for innovations to take root and spread throughout the economy. we've seen disruption throughout these hearings. mobile payments are certainly no different. impact the internet of things and sharing economy develops. we work better to understand how impact consumers job creation an other economy as a whole. mobile payment technologies have opened up opportunity for individuals and businesses alike. so businesses small and large can benefit from these disruptions as we've seen with hardware like square and software like dinmo which make payments easier for small businesses between friend respectively. these are two examples in an ecosystem bursting with growth as more and more americans get smartphones, tablet and other mobile devices. new technologies and competition

are responding to consumer needs. mobile payment innovation is happening all over the country however adoption across the ecosystem continues to be a challenge that all businesses in this space are working to address. there are a lot of facets to the mobile payment space and we'll learn today more about options consumers have, particularly how these options and can and will continue to improve security for consumers and job creators to and i yield balance of my time to marcia blackburn. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and i am so appreciate tiff that we're doing this hearing today. and i thank our witnesses. you all are the experts and we have plenty of questions that we are going to have for you. wireless and mobile devices and quick purchases are changing things. and this past weekend my six-year-old grandson got into the app store on my iphone, found something that he wanted to buy, handed me the phone, and

said, marcia, you need to pay for this. and of course i did not. and, but, i use this illustration to make a point of the simplicity and also the assumption of our kids and grandkids, that it is going to be at the scan of a screen, or a touch or a button, or with great ease that you are going to be able to make these purchases on the go, in real-time, paid in real time, and paid with great convenience and security, and security. and that is where much of our focus is going to be. whether it's the multifactor authentication or tokennization or what i want to hear from you, the what next. where do you think we're going with this?

people want security, they will demand it because they want to protect their virtual presence online just as they protect their presence in the brick-and-mortar relationship with those they're choosing to do business with. so i thank you for the time that you are going to spend with us today, your preparation in coming to the committee and i look forward to your thoughts on what's next. yield back. >> gentlelady yields back. the chair thanks the gentlelady. the chair recognizes the chair of ranking chair of thefull committee, mr. burgess. >> thank you, mr. chairman. at a time when it seems like virtually everything is tied to our smartphones, it should come as no surprise we're now able to store credit cards electronically, transfer funds

directly to our peers and make purchases by tapping our phones at a terminal at point of sale. these exciting innovations hold promise for consumers. imagine the convenience of being able to send money instantly to a family or friend or member with proximity of a atm. mobile peer-to-peer payment could be difference between being squared away and an i. ou. the ability to store credit cards on your phone may also offer consumers in peace of mine, in event of lost or stolen phone your information is face behind pass code and physical card is not compromised. consumers with limited or no access to a bank, mobile payments can be welcome to purchase services they need. for example, use of mobile payments skyrocketed in kenya where access to bank something quite limited. with all the new products that involve consumers personal information however privacy concerns must be raised. in general mobile payment apps

can access a wealth of personal data through user smartphones such as phone numbers, geolocation, email addresses and detailed purchase histories. consumers did not know who has access to their information, with whom it is shared. this may be used in ways a consumer never intended by merchants sending unwanted advertising tailored to consumers through their mobile devices and that personal information could be sold, so consumers location of private matters are shared with highest bidder. that is why privacy protections should be baked into the new mobile pay applications. it is also important that consumers insured current transactions through mobile payment system. as with any mobile device or application, digitally stored or transmitted information is hackable with a major data breaches of past few years still fresh in consumers minds, mobile payment users will understandably hesitant about using an app if there is no protection from hackers who may try to intercept their personal

information. it has been made clear through sear rigs of hearings on disruptors, innovation an consumer protection must go hand in hand for new technologies to flourish. mobile payments present exciting opportunity to make e-commerce more seamless experience for consumers. i look forward to hearing from today's witnesses on this topic. thank you, mr. chairman. i yield back. >> gentleman yields back. the chair thanks the gentleman. that concludes opening statements. pursuant to committee rules all members opening statements will be made part of the record. we want to thank our witnesses being here this morning and taking time to testify before the subcommittee. our witness panel today, and we do have a good and great group, our witness panel today includes mr. john muller, senior vice president of mobile payments policy at paypal. jessica deckinger, merchant customer exchange.

sarah jane hughes, indiana university school of law. and mr. sang ahn, chief commercial officer at u.s. samsung pay. woe appreciate all of you being with us this morning. we'll begin the panel with you, mr. muller, and each of you will be recognized for five minutes for summary of your opening statement. mr. muller, you're recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman and ranking member schakowsky and the other members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to testify on behalf of paypal. my name is john muller and i'm vice president of payments policy for paypal and paypal has been involved in mobile payments now for 16 years and started with the cutting-edge payments mobile device of its time, which was the palm pilot you may

remember. the personal digital assistant without phone capability. but a very portable device, and paypal was actually built to beam payments from one palm pilot to another. at that point we quickly realized that more people had email and internet access than owned a palm pilot but we now have come back full circle to a focus on mobile payments, to the point that last year we processed one billion payments from mobile devices all around the world, and just in the last quarter of this year the growth rate continues and we processed 345 million mobile payments. i have some more information on paypal in a prepared statement. i wanted to shift a little bit and just make a few high-level points about mobile payments and

where we stand today. one point is payments follows commerce and it follows where people spend their time. very few people, maybe people on this panel accepted, make a payment just for fun or just to try it out. there is always a purpose behind it and for most of us the purpose is commerce or the purpose might be to pay back a friend and increasingly we're doing our shopping on mobile devices, and we have our mobile devices with us when we're out with a friend or contacting a friend. so it's only natural for payments to be part of that broader mobile experience. another point payment has been mobile for quite some time. there are a few things more portable than paper currency and coins or a plastic card. what's really new about the new generation of mobile payments is

the opportunity for all of us in the payments industry to take advantage of what the technology makes available, namely, increased security through things like the device identifier or geolocation on the device or biometrics on the device, the thumbprint being the first live version of that, but certainly more to come in that arena. and then to that security add a better user experience compared to just paying with cash or a card. things like all i cannily recognizing -- automatically recognizing my loyalty program and giving me points and giving me choice of funding methods. so if i have a card, a plastic card, then i have to use that card. if i have a digital wallet, like paypal or the other wallets, i can use my mobile device in real

time to switch among all the different payment methods that i have available. those are some. reasons why we see the growing popularity of mobile payments. another point i wanted to make which use the term broadly, mobile payments and it really covers to a large degree three different fields. one that dominates for paypal and other companies, using mobile device as substitute for a few years ago would be a transaction on the laptop or desktop computer. communicating with a new kind of device but similar to e-commerce transactions we were doing in the early 2000. the second type and certainly gets a great real attention

because now e-commerce and touch fiscal commerce, using phone as a substitute for the plastic card and paying at a physical point of sale. and then the third type, certainly not to diminish it in any way, equally important, using the mobile device as a way of enabling businesses, mostly small businesses to accept cards and other payment methods electronically in a mobile business environment, whether it's a food truck or a farmers' market or any of the other many opportunities that small businesses use for devices, attaching a small reader to their device, using it usually to swipe a card or enter another payment method. companies like square and paypal have made that available to small businesses all over the

country. all of those are different types of mobile payments but it is important to recognize there are distinctions among the three. and then finally, also important to recognize that the field is already regulated. we have to give credit to the drafters, in particular of the electronic fund transfer act, when they created consumer protections for, what at the time was primarily the atm card. quite a few years ago they drafted the statute in terms of access devices and financial accounts, not limited to plastic cards or any specific technology. so an access device can be a password or phone or any other device, and consumer protections

remain in place, supplemented by the zero liability programs that visa and mastercard and paypal all offer to buyers. so, wanted to make those broader points. with that i will conclude my remarks. thank you, and look forward to the questions. >> chair thanks the gentleman. miss deckinger you're recognized for five minutes please. >> thank you, mr. chairman. ranking member schakowsky and members of the house subcommittee. we appreciate opportunity to talk about the rapidly developing mobile payment space. mobile payment solutions are rapidly moving to forefront of consumer technology both in the united states and globally. who is mcx. this was founded by a leading group of merchants in 2012 to create a more broadly accepted mobile platform. it includes retail leaders in

big box, convenience, fuel grocery, quick service, and full dining and specialty retail -- no audio. -- opportunity to offer loyalty programs and more direct interaction with. prepared a short video to give a sense -- >> might have turned off his mic. we were always hearing it from video? hold on. i think it is going to video. >> we have great news. currency is now live in columbus, ohio. the people of columbus are experiencing a powerful new way to shop. not only can they pay, they can redeem coupons and gain loyalty points, all in one swift move. currency ws made to be uses at

places people of columbus go every day, like their favorite restaurants. ♪ even at the drive-thru. >> 8:32. >> i will be paying with currency today. >> okay, great. ♪ >> have a great day. >> they can also clip offers, and scan at the checkout at retailers and the grocery store and they're good to go. ♪ >> discounts and loyalty are applied instantly. ♪ and, they can pay with their phone while comfortably sitting in their car at the gas pump. currency is available on virtually any smartphone, and soon you will see it at thousands of other places around the country. stay tuned, soon you too will be able to shop like never before.

>> this new network will benefit a wide range of consumers in three basic ways. one delivering a better shopping and payment experience by enabling customers to interact directly with merchants with virtually any smartphone. two, safeguard consumers an merchants by maintaining the direct relationship merchants have with customers and protecting customer data. three, bringing balance to the payment system. mcx has processing 1.2 million payments annually. that will allow consumers to use smartphones wherever they smart. mcx brings best in class technology and mobile payment partners to bring unparalleled mobile space. they have a application called currency that can be downloaded to any smartphone a customer may choose. we've done private rollouts between leading retailers and their employees. we're currently in public operating beta in columbus,

ohio. the purpose of the beta to gather earnings from merchants and users to. the rollout will continue as additional merchants go live in columbus through the balance much 2015 with national public availability currently in 2016. today consumers experiences with payments can differ fairly drastically depending where they're shopping. at fuel station they may be asked to dip their card or type zip code to begin fueling. sit-down establishment, they wait for the server before physically relinquishing the card to the establishment of the other merchants have more self-service experience where consumers swipe their cats at checkout. we specifically designed our technology platform to refine the best technologies to deliver optimal payment experience to customers in the best way possible. to deliver the bessemer chant experience, best consumer experience at merchants we're leveraging several types of technology solutions. we remain open to new technologies and looking to

source very best options for consumers and our merchants of the at present we're working with several different innovative technologies, codes and geolocations providing best user experience regardless of location. fundamentally the current payment system works well from a consumer's perspective. so a credit or debit card is widely accepted and easily familiar. we're focused on providing consumers more rewarding safer ways to shop. currency provides incentives four important ways. wider acceptance. our merchants include leading retailers and regional leaders in large format convenience, pharmacy, fuel, drug, grocery, quick full service dining and special retail and travel categories. focused on acceptance where consumers shop every day. developing network will give consumers to shop with frequency and develop muscle memory using currency allowing it to replace card swipe over time while

providing additional security and convenience. currency available on any smartphone regardless of model. we believe consumer should have the convenience regardless of mobile choices. it is easily transferable should the consumer changes chosen mobile device solution. they provide consumer payment networks within the merchants proprietary apps. the consumer can choose to access currency directly or garner same benefits use merchant app which they use every day. merchants value relationships to their customers around want to enhance those relationships adding value to motivate consumers to shop in store with more safer, way to transact. currency includes consumer loyalty cards and accounts. apply offers, coupons, promotions when they pay in single transaction. our solution is designed to combine all benefits instantaneously together in one code read. consumer don't have to remember a phone, phone number to activate loyalty account or use

key chain to get discounts. currency tied directly into the pos terminals in merchants we have item level coupons which alleviates the need to clip or carry coupons or discount offers to provide flexibility, choice. the ability to ben from it offers and loyalty directly from their handheld device. currently we're testing several discount and incentive programs in columbus. two most popular are coupon for free frosty which is ice cream cone and every with every purchase at wendy's, five dollars bonus with first purchase currency at cvs. to the average consumer these are tangible motivates to. consumers have the freedom to pay using variety of accounts, merchant, gift cards, general purpose debit and credit cards. mcx signed a partnership with jpmorgan chase which will increase options available, chase customers to use chase cards wherever currency accepted.

anticipated general purpose debit and credit cards will be available in the future. at mcx we're open to adding new forms of payment that will provide greater convenience to consumers and allow them to realize benefits an incentives moving payments to future service using mobile payment platforms. at mcx we're focused leveraging innovative technology. consumers are inundated with breaches and identity theft. they're more aware of vulnerability the of payments and technology. they remain to dark to leverage consumer technologies in every day lives. at mcx we believe it is uncouple bent like mobile security like ours around use the security and how it is working for them. we're leveraging cloud technology to avoid sensitive information on the phone or pos our app uses secure dynamic tokens for each individual transactions to facilitate transactions instead of constantly pacing data between the consumer, merchant and

financial institution. the consumer can be assured their personal financial information an payment information is never stored on the device and never stored on merchant pos ion if it is token is stolen it is worthless because it never be used again. provides visual evidence to demonstrate our security is working for them. >> let me ask you to please wrap up. we have other witnesses to hear from. >> okay, thank you. i will finish section and finish. our registration process includes several security questions, four digit pin and consumers candies able their phones easily and quickly. we want to reiterate our appreciation for your interest in mobile payments technologies and providing merchant customer exchangesthe opportunity to share innovation underway in the mobile payment space we truly believe mobile payments provide opportunity for merchants an consumers to improve the experience overall. >> chair thanks the gentlelady. miss hughes you're recognized for five minutes. >> mr. chairman, ranking member

schakowsky, representative brooks from indiana and other honourable members of the subcommittee and committee who are present today. i'm very pleased to be here with you to talk about mobile payments generally and with the microphone it will be even better. yes, and, to talk about consumers in today as marketplace. and i am especially pleased, not only to be here with you, but to be here with my long-time professional acquaintance, john muller of paypal. i have three disclaimers that are unique to me and a couple of others that relate to mobile that i think i should say. first, i am not here as a representative of indiana university, so the trustees don't stand behind what i say. this is my personal opinion. i am also not here as a representative of the uniform lock commission though i'm working on virtual currency project with them. i'm not here as representative of the federal research system faster payments tack force even

though i'm also working with them on that. those are the formal, usual, disclaimers. now the personal wins. i do use paypal and i use paypal on my phone. i do use square, particularly to buy tickets and buy things as mr. muller said, at farmers markets and at arts and crafts fairs and to make ticket purchases and i use both square and paypal to make charitable contributions because it's not just the christmas shopping season that we have right now. it is also the end of year charitable fund drive and mobile payments are very important to charities and, as john segregated, even stationary e-commerce payments are very important to charities. i don't use apple pay or samsung and the reason is, because i don't have a new enough phone to make an apple pay and i don't happen to be carrying samsung. so the committee asked us to

look at four questions and in the interests of time, the first was whether mobile payments were disrupting other forms of payments. and i personally believe the answer is not yet. and i'm not certain when that moment will come when that will happen but i think it's a question of a level of adoption. and i'm not positive, given at that mobile payments will continue to rely on credit, debit and other traditional sources of funds for clearing and settlement, the degree to which mobile payments will disrupt in the way we typically use the term. i would prefer to say that mobile payments can augment. the second question the committee asked me to discuss, was the security and what the technologies are. and while i agree that there have been some significant upturns in security, i like multifactor authorization which we do not yet have with plastic

cards in this country but in other countries we do. i like tokenization options and i like gilo location from security perspective. from privacy perspective i don't like the gilo location option quite so much but that is because i'm really a privacy hawk. and so i think that is a significant issue. the hurdles that are existing to widespread consumer adoption of mobile payments include something that mcx is going to solve by allowing ubiquitous type utilities but the other hurdle i believe requires significant consumer education expenses on the parts of the companies that are engaged in this and i don't know whether you noticed but yesterday i saw an ad i thought for samsung on

this score and i know that there have been others but i think that there is an absence of consumer education which could be significantly enhancing opportunities in this field. security depends in part on the contract between the user, me, and the providers. and so in addition to the electronic fund transfer act which is older than my oldest child who is 37, i think it also depends on the degree of supervision of payment processors who are not the providers and not chartered financial institutions, to take good care of security in the middle and the next question that you asked involved privacy in this ecosystem. many years ago now, by comparison the privacy was put into place in the gram lynch bliley bill and and

responsibilities that they believe are considerable. i would welcome any questions that the committee may have. thank you. >> chair thanks the gentlelady. mr. ahn, you're recognized for five minutes please. >> chairman burgess, ranking member schakowsky and members of the subcommittee thank you for allowing me to testify on behalf of samsung mesh. i would like to introduce samsung pay, which provides security, simplicity and widespread acceptance like no other mobile peso solution. whether fighting fraud or helping consumers zip through black friday checkout lines, samsung pay benefits consumers retail merchants and financial institutions. for consumers samsung pay is available anywhere you can tap or swipe a card. it is secure and easy. i will demonstrate on my phone. swipe up, to launch the application. confirm your identity with a

fingerprint, hover the device over the payment terminal and pay. it's that simple. and has widest acceptance of any mobile payment service. for merchants, samsung pay helps merchants provide secure, innovative and past payment experience. samsung pay supports all payment types, magnetic stripe, nfc and nv terminals. for financial institutions samsung pay has security features including tokenization and fingerprint authentication that limit fraud and reduce liability. so those are samsung pay's benefits in broad strokes. importantly our innovation was made possible by the government's decision to have consumers pick the winners in the mobile payment space without additional regulations. going forward congress should continue to allow consumer choice to drive innovation an differentiation in this space. before diving further into samsung pay it might help if i highlighted samsung's presence in america and how our u.s. employees are contributing to

samsung pay. headquartered in new jersey with facilities dallas, palo alto, austin, south carolina, new york and massachusetts, samsung electronics america is recognized innovation leader in smartphones, consumer electronics, i.t. and home appliances. we employ approximately 15,000 people in america and our $15 billion investment in our austin semiconductor plant is the largest single site foreign direct investment in america. in regard to samsung pay, our u.s. employees have driven much of samsung pay's development and success. several years ago samsung pay's r&d teams examined mobile payments of the we found consumers would transition to from plastic cards and mobile payments if the technology solution is one, secure, two, simple to use, and three, widely accepted at the most merchants nationwide. we concluded that many companies can make a secure and easy to use mobile payment solution but the trick is making the payment

solution widely accepted by merchants. current solutions rely on nfc, near field communications. although nfc shows great promise only small fraction of mother chants in the united states only dod nfc quick point of sale terminals. without adoption in place for accepting nfc transactions, acceptance of nffc only mobile payment services remained low. enter samsung pay. unlike others, samsung pay lets you pay a mobile terminal any place you can swipe a credit card. we have mst, magnetic secure transmission. this is technology is already accepted by more than 30 million merchants around the world. . .

to potential data thieves. uses biometrics is one which allows users to apply them to print to the phones built print to the phone's built-in sensor to authenticate the transaction. additionally, our smartphones incorporate the nonsecurity platform keeping all payment data locked and secure. finally, giving us a proxy right is critical. for samsung pay we do not and cannot monitor user purchases.

the transaction details are encrypted and can only be decrypted on a consumers device. samsung was all consumers regard as a been, to payments. no other manufacturer be just as diverse and august as samsung or offers consumers such a wide array of innovative products in different price points. we are examining how to include sensibly adequate arrangement devices. effort as we welcome your thoughts and input for your -- from your constituents. thank you for allowing samsung to share our thoughts and benefits about mobile payment. >> the chair thanks the gentleman. the chair thanks all of our witnesses for providing testimony and food for thought. we move into note that the question part of the hearing to begin recognize myself for five minutes for questions. let me ask you, obviously we've heard from mr. on about something so to read a device specific but you talk about being agnostic as to the type of

device. so how does that into play into the consumer experience having a device, any device which has been able to use your product? >> thank you so much for your question. we are very focused at creating consumer choice and enhancing the, making it available to all consumers. we feel like it's important to have consumers have the option to use whatever device they would like to come there for we designed our technology to work about devices, all smartphones. virtually any smartphone a consumer have to leverage our technology could easily. >> i've got to ask the question. what about a flip phone? some of us still have them spit and we are not quite there yet. >> not quite there yet. mr. on, you bring up some great points, and i figured ranking member pallone talk about providing services to the unbank in places where the infrastructure project to take does not exist, whether it be because of civil strife or

warfare or poverty. so you actually can to some degree bridge that gap with the devices you're talking about? >> that's right. we have the opportunity to our phone ecosystem. with over 700 million devices in market around the world and we are a global company. we have the opportunity to provide payment solutions that are relevant for consumers. what we're doing into united states with our recent launch to samsung pay is providing an opportunity for the user, the consumer to pay at any merchant location whether it's a big box retailers like many of the merchants or small mom and pop shops. mc x. there are many partners that were very close with come in discussions. mc x. was designed to get a large consortia of the largest merchants and they are relevant and important for consumers 20. we think we need to go beyond just large box retailers into

mom and pop stores anywhere there's a transaction we want to be there for the consumer. that's art near-term opportunity. i think it's early stages of this payment ecosystem and all innovations are helpful as a rise in tide list all vote. we want all innovations to succeed and move the payment ecosystem for. primarily creating additional security for the user moving forward. >> very good. mr. muller, let me just ask you, paypal, one of the originals, i think in fact when i ran my first campaign 13 or 14 years ago actually had a paypal option as far as for people who wanted to support, but you can't have more experience in this space that almost anyone else, and how do you have the leverage the security? how do you add layers of security or additional layers of security for the transactions for consumers? >> it's always a matter of

trying to add security with user convenience. and the user experience. that's what mobile device offers in a somewhat unique way is the way to improve both user experience and security, and that's a rare thing in the payments field. through the kinds of technologies already mentioned, i could device location or unique device identifier, and do it in a way where the user controls what information they are sharing. so that's the holy grail we are all trying to achieve. and also want to emphasize that all the same risk programs are still running in the background. so we don't assume that there's a silver bullet type solution and security. so even if we do have a customer who is taking advantage, say, of

the fingerprint authentication or device location and to pass that test, we are still running all these other tests in the background looking for risk variables in the transaction. so it's a matter of adding to risk reducing programs that already exist, not substituting them purely with new types of authentication or security. >> thank you. i do just want, it's not a question, it's an observation. we had a hearing here not too terribly long ago about senior citizens were taken advantage of iberia's phone solicitations. and as this technology becomes easier and more ingrained, i would just ask you to think about, which was cut to stay one step ahead of the very clever thief out of there. so to help protect senior

citizens against this type of activity, db think about what type of safeguards may be incorporated into the technology. without i'm going to recognize ms. schakowsky for five minutes for questions. >> so ms. dekinger, we celebrated the small business saturday. i went to a number of small businesses in my neighborhood. so your technology right now, really favors larger corporations, right? >> at the moment, yes. we are in early stages of a pilot at the moment so we're still developing our technology and working to build network that consumers can use currency in places where they shop everyday, yes. >> i wanted to ask him questions about consumer privacy. professor hughes, what kind of data is collected by these apps, and is that data different from

what a more traditional means of payment may collect, like a credit card? [inaudible] >> thank you, ms. schakowsky. i think it depends a great deal on the system. mr. ahn hester said that samsung pay, which is relatively recently introduced in the united states does -- i did it again -- does not have come does not allow the merchant to see any of the information. and so the authentication device doesn't really share that information with the merchant. it operates in a more traditional way like an escrow service, if i understood you correctly, for the information. you keep it under passing the payment through but you're not passing the consumers information through. >> is that a correct description speak was that is correct i in e way we what the way we can do that today is was in a data packet over that is completely

encrypted and don't see what's inside. >> is that you need to your company or -- no, but it is not mandated in any way right now, is that right? >> is one item of implementation by leading technology. >> go ahead. >> i was about to say but i think your classification was actually helpful, paypal also operates the in an escrow mode, because the transaction information flows into paypal and then paypal processes the payment transaction in a way that's a lot like as good a many people believe. that is not true of every app that may be available which is one of the reasons why i said when it comes to security and the deed to privacy also, it really depends on who the provider is, whether it's a great company like paypal and samsung, whether it's an apt for another purpose.

the manner in which tokenization is deployed is also very random at this stage. so there are number of alternatives that do not have the same levels of security and/or customer privacy and samsung and paypal have. >> you know, my experience with these kinds of things is that they ask you to accept the deal. and that is preceded by a lot of stuff on a very small device that you have to figure out and, in legalese when he pushed except. and i would challenge almost anyone whether or not they really carefully scrutinize those things before pushing i except. -- i except. and then moving on to use. i'm just wondering, since there are alternatives, more some

secure than others, should there be some standardization and? should there be some requirements to protect consumer privacy? >> i mentioned earlier that i may privacy hawk, but i believe very firmly that everybody should have some privacy protections that congress and many states have already provided, particularly congresss has provided i believe everybody should have the same access to those privacy protections. but i also believe that one of the dynamic forces in mobile payments is the ability to compete to provide better than other people do. so the companies that are working with multifactor authentication, working with tokenization that are doing as mr. mole suggested continuing to run the risk platforms which are old-fashioned artificial intelligence operations in the background of the marketing for payment transactions that are

coming through their system, those are, as long as there is a floor the night believe people should be able to compete to offer better tokenization, more extensive or unique -- >> that's something we'll have to consider if we think competition based on level of risk and protection for consumers is a legitimate way to compete. i've actually out of time. some good deal about. >> would you like me to answer the question speak with short. >> so i think the answer is right now, among the very. >> systems into united states, there is already a broad array of risk that relates to privacy and security. and because we have silos around different kinds of payments, this has been a constant in the marketplace, back to the 1970s or the early 1960s, and efforts to harmonize that were not successful in the past.

and whether they can be successful in the future remains to be seen. >> can i just say? on a party but necessarily harmonizing the method or the technology, i am talk about setting a level of risk that is acceptable to the marketplace. so i'm going to -- i need to move on. >> thatcher thinks the gentlelady and recognizes the vice chair of the full committee ms. blackburn for five minutes. >> thank you, mr.chairman. ms. schakowsky might be moving on but i would just kind of put a comment to the end of her work. we have had to privacy and data security working group here at energy and commerce, and with all our focus on making certain that consumers are safe in the marketplace. mr. welch and i worked on the data security bill comment and we continue to try to push this forward so that we can do some preemption, establish some

breach notification and bring some certainty to bear. so i appreciate the questions that are being asked around this issue this money. we hope that you appreciate them, too. ms. dekinger, i want to come to you. those of us who want to see people in the virtual market place and we see articles like this, and to make you go ouch. okay, it is the apple pay rival and wal-mart back in cx hacked user e-mails snatched. this was in your data test. there goes october 2014 that was a forbes article that was written, written about this. mr. chairman, i'm going to pass this down to miss schakowsky can see because i know she is likele me on this privacy issue very concerned about that. i want you to provide some information about the attack and what you did on resolving it spent thank you so much for the question.

so our subcontractor up mcx, not mcx it's a penny security incident where some e-mails were released. that's subcontractor was immediately terminated as a partner -- >> how long did it take you to isolate it, isolate the pack speak with immediately. we also opted to notify folks within hours of finding out the rapidly find out after this occurred. we've taken extensive precautions, security is are important to us and very important your users to take extraordinary precautions down to address the issues we have with a subcontractor and additional subcontractors we've been part within a future. we are always looking, there's always a so mentioned clever and creative criminals who will seek to look for data, and no security is perfect but we're working very hard to achieve a part of. >> let me pick up on that evolution in this process. talk to me about what

precautions you are taking around data security when it comes to multifactor authentication or tokenization. what are you moving toward, and are you please with those advances? i'm coming to each one for the rest of you on this panel, so get ready. >> so we have a cross functional security council internally within mcx. we work together regularly and meet to discuss the latest technology come innovations, secured innovation. we are always developing to make them more secure. we are always implementing state-of-the-art technology, whatever is available for sale the but and will continue to do so. the trust of consumers and their feeling of security when using an app is of the utmost importance and we recognize that. so we work to make sure always been on the cutting edge.

>> mr. muller? >> something for all of us you probably here's the thing that gets constant battle and constant investment in security, because the fraudsters are out there also continually changing their methods of attack. so we try to make that investment, and it's certainly a huge part of our cost base. and then we also try to do what we can, first of all, to minimize data collection because, frankly, if we don't have the data, then even if we were somehow to be breached, it would be less vulnerable. >> mr. ahn, when i come to you, talk about the vast identity alliance in your protections. >> sure. so the security protocol would you put in place are quite extensive people to think about putting multiple walls of such as the fraudsters have to hop

over many, many steps to reach the information. one of the things we have at the integrated chip level, the microprocessor alone as a way through our proprietary solution to shut down in the event of a routing even. the application must be authenticated by fingerprint or pin to get into the application. if the phone is lost or stolen or the ability to remotely turn off payment credentials completed and turned it back on. and when the network's -- >> hold on. you've got three tiers of encryption before you get -- >> we have multiple ways of protecting the consumer information. glass with his of the card networks and companies would work with themselves have the ability to remotely turn on and off tokens. the last most important piece is that we have purposefully architected our solution can also personal information and card transaction information to we only pass along the token. so for us those of central point to hack. the only information is

transaction history on your device. this one device is not a rich enough target for fraudsters. so that's how we view security. >> thank you. yield back. >> the gentleman's time has expired. the chair recognizes the jump in from new jersey, mr. pallone, five minutes. >> thank you, mr.chairman. i wanted to ask professor hughes, consumers ability dispute unauthorized charges on a mobile payment varies to been on the payment method being used. for example, consumers luckily for unauthorized discharges autocratic or at a certain date is lower than on a debit card. so could you tell me what protections are available to consumers who do not have access to a credit or debit card and choose to link a mobile payment to their mobile phone bill? >> i did it again. there we go. i believe that you've hit upon a single greatest challenge from the consumer perspective.

and this particularly effects unbanked and underbanked individuals. so the persons were using credit cards and debit cards have access to two federal statutes that it in place in one case or more than 40 years and at the case for 37 plus years. fair credit billing act and the -- you are correct their standards are slightly different. you have to report fast on an efp transaction that on a credit card transaction. and your liability can be different, although visa and mastercard on the credit card side having no liability policy. paypal as our member is having no liability policy. and there are other opportunities. the consumer, however, it was building to a mobile phone

statement as opposed to using a financial institution for the clearing and settlement of the payment you are making things that have the same level protections because those are both either because there's a credit card present or a bank account present it so that credit and debit cards are acted vice to those -- although they may have prepaid our payroll cards, and the prepaid and cable cars are increasingly being brought under the electronic transfer act. so the key gap at the moment is the person who was building something to their mobile phone account without some of the financial services provider doing the clearing and settlement for the payments. and that is the gap that exists in federal legislation right now, and that is the capital success in the states. >> so you said that with prepaid

cards, and what about gift cards? >> gift card -- >> there is some protection. >> that's correct. not all of the electronic fund transfer protections currently extended to gift cards. some of the issues about dispute resolution did not extend all the way through the gift card family at this stage. but payroll cards have better protections than regular gift card to do in the same environment, because of efforts to bring them under the electronic fund transfer -- >> what do you suggest we do legislatively, agency action, whatever, to have stronger protection for all these different things? particularly the ones that have less protection based on what you said. >> one issue which this committee doesn't have its jurisdiction. so the federal trade commission doesn't have jurisdiction over carriers for that purpose, for

example, that i don't believe the cfpb does either. the states, because of the strength of the federal communications act, i don't think the states have authority to do all of this work. if you wanted to do that i think would be up to congress to instruct the federal communications commission, giving them some additional authority to point in that realm or to extend the reach, if you felt it was important, to extend the reach to persons who do not use financial institutions and access devices to accounts, either credit cards over the cards, to have comparable protections. i haven't thought about exactly what those would look like, but i think it's an extremely interesting topic. >> i have just a little time. with so many vendors and third parties involved in some of the mobile payment transactions, i was concerned consumers could be given the runaround. do want to comment on that? we only have a look at a time.

>> i think that consumers may go to vendors for the purpose but i think consumers largely go to their financial service provider. whether it's some song and paypal or their bank to get resolution of disputes. the one that you've identified is the ones without going to have that person to help them, not in the same fashion. >> thank you. thank you, mr.chairman. >> the gentleman's time has expired. the chair recognizes the other gentleman from new jersey to the vice chair, mr. lance. >> thank you, chairman burgess. ms. dekinger, it is apparent one of the biggest hurdles to getting consumers to adopt a certain payment method is the scale. what steps did you take it that order for a payment method to be accepted with enough ubiquity that consumers find it to be

beneficial, and from your your perspective on any legal impediments in order to make sure that this is the case, that we can move forward? >> thank you so much for the question. we believe fundamentally that you have to have, what i mentioned earlier, which is muscle memory for consumers. they are very comfortable with her current forms of income going to star in swiping a credit card. a credit card. is a difficulty and swiping a credit card. it's a difficult team to to change the theater we believe is having a presence with a shop everyday multiple times. we believe it has that great reach to consumers by casting a fuel station several times a week it at least once a week the they are at coffee shops, the big retailers doing grocery shopping. we feel like having this deal is going to drive the adoption of rental usage that will create the most limited for consumers to get used to using a new form of payment. i don't think there are any legal restrictions, but i would welcome any other input on that

spirit anyone else on the panel, professor hughes? >> i would agree that there are no legal implements, imperatives or hurdles to the greater adoption. as i mentioned earlier in response to questions from the chairman, i believe it is one which may involve consumer education more than anything else. i think that it may also be generalization -- generational. and so i think it's millennials are much more likely to use mobile payments and older people. my late mother was very clever never used an atm. not because she didn't feel like it, just because she was a particularly in mechanical person. i think she's comfortable with the options she had. the comfort level with the options that are currently available, even though they're expanding, is a difference between us and other parts of the world with the banking system is not as robust, where the penetrations of the samsung

and paypal style opportunities are not as great. in the case of some, just have a smart phone and a new in a smart phone to use it. you're going to see in older generations and in less affluent generations lots of smart phones but not everybody has one. so the mechanical barrier may become dependent upon the nature of the service being offered, the mechanical barrier, what kind of device you have available for this purpose, which is something that just takes a maturation of the marketplace. >> thank you. mr. muller, you said how many transactions paypal a year, a belgian year, a billion year, a belgian did you say? >> a billion in 2014. >> and there will be more people eat industry because in the last quarter it was 350 million or something like that. what percentage are into united states and what percentage are in europe?

what percentage are in asia? >> so are largest markets overall in the world are, you know, by and large, the english speaking countries. u.s., uk, canada, australia, also germany. and in all of them we see pretty comparable rates of mobile payment as a proportion of total payment. so getting towards a third of all of our payments on a mobile device, again, usually either a phone or a tablet that's used where five years ago it would have used a laptop or desktop. >> thank you. mr. ahn, explain samsung's latest device. in your testimony, what did you say, that samsung is doing next? samsung card, samsung --

>> the question was with respect to our product, ecosystem. what we are doing today is we have devices which we call galaxy and not be we are looking at a future device and a broader ecosystem where we can put samsung pay onto them. whether there are additional mobile device or wearables we are looking at a broad ecosystem. >> a wearable would be -- >> a watch. >> and you could then purchase items or pay for items from the device? >> that's part of our thinking. >> has that occurred yet or is it still in development speak with we are evaluating and developing them as we speak. >> thank you and thank you for making new jersey recorders in this part of the world. we deeply appreciate that and i've been after world headquarters and have been deeply impressed with them. thank you, mr.chairman. >> the gentleman's time has expired. the chair recognizes ms. clark for five minutes. >> i think i ranking member.

transparency. unlike simple transactions using a mobile payment system can bring advancing to third parties. professor hughes, seems like there are often many entities involved in mobile payment transactions that consumers they realize. how can we ensure consumers know who is involved in the mobile payment transaction, apart from themselves, and the service there directly interacting with? >> that is a very interesting question, and i believe it is one to which we do not have a very clear answer. so i think that the our systems that operate, particularly apps, not services of the kinds being offered by paypal and some song. where the app is involved, it is much more likely that there are unknown third parties involved in processing for the merchant, particularly because merchants use a lot of third party in the processors. and third party payment processors are among the least

regulated entities in the payment space today. they are not very well regulated by states. some of the or regulate as money transmitters, some are not, they are not particularly well addressed by legislation to this point. asking the merchant, for example, or the app provider to make that kind of disclosure could possibly be more burdensome than it would be worth. so i think it's more important to ask, and each of these groups and others do, for people to engage in robust supervision of the choice of providers that could use a long a track that may be involved, and to supervise it in a properly for risk management purposes. the members of this panel may not be excited, but you might care to read a study that was issued in august of 2015 may be clearing house payments company,

which would be happy to provide two-step, if someone tells me to which person it should be set. that study talks about this issue in particular in greater depth that i have time to do this morning, or you do. and so i would suggest that it might be something that you agreed on that particular narrow subject, which is quite an important one. i urge you not to make it too complicated, because people choose providers on their histories with them. and it would be very in touch but very difficult to make new disclosures constantly t project to abandon a provider because they didn't behave appropriately and choose a new one. >> i think we are concerned more about breaches, you know. you are thinking with many more entities that are holding the data, right? but let me move to ask about lack of transparency and

consumer consent. the notion of consumer consent. how can consumers incentive business relationships with entities that they were unaware of? >> well, that's a very complicated question. and i think that as you are already lots of payment processors operating into united states where we are not, we're not seeing a lot of transparent consent. i think it may be the necessary level of consent, maybe the consumer chooses the payment method and the consumer chooses the merchant at this point. and i firmly believe that the mechanics of this are such that we should put the primary focus on the merchant to choose wisely and on the payment provider to choose wisely come and ask them to perform the functions that are currently present in federal and state law to supervise them a. >> do you believe that greater transparency could encourage

more consumer use of mobile payments? because consumers were unwilling to use mobile payment services may feel unsure about who have access to the data afterwards. >> that, too, is an excellent question. i think there is, i think the more that consumers understand how mobile payments work, as a general as opposed to a specific proposition, but perhaps both, the more they are likely to be willing to use them. because just like with atms 40 years ago, there was a period of adoption, and it made a difference when consumers -- >> with atms don't have a third party. you know you can just walk into -- >> some do absolutely. kiosks in stores and other places have a landscape and an ecosystem that is very much like mobile payments today. the answer is, there your talking about your bank and talking about the place where used the machine.

assumed human where it is and it is usually on your receipt. i'm not sure that that is so much different than what consumers are already dealing with with already dealing with with a4a month cover. i just think they need more education. >> i yield back. thank you. >> that chair thanks the gentleman and recognizes the gentleman from mississippi, mr. harper, for five minutes. >> thank you, mr.chairman, and thanks to each of you for being you. i never envisioned the title of mobile payments would be exciting, you know? it's an incredible topic and it is affecting our lives in so many ways as we look at this. and so i'm all in. this is a great, great topic. mr. muller, if i could start with you. in your testimony you mentioned that paypal has been involved in mobile payments innovation since the palmpilot devices. what have been some turning points that you've seen in the development of mobile payments

from paypal's perspective? and what are the next big applications that we should be on the look out for? >> so, you know, like most companies there have been some successes but also some learning opportunities. one was come as i mentioned, the switch away from the palmpilot as the focus of towards e-mail and internet connection. a second generation really starting i think in 2006, we launched a mobile payment feature available to users to make payments mostly intended for person-to-person, but a few also businesses that signed up using text message. and just send a text message with a certain come with the amount and a certain code in it. and that frankly was not very successful. i think largely for some of the

reasons that have come up about security, and many consumers feeling a little bit too uncertain that just by pushing a text message that the money would go to the right place and be credited correctly. so that effort -- >> does that mean it was too simple to give confidence? >> well, i think perhaps to some degree. i don't know if too simple or simply too unclear, too little information associated with the actual transaction if so. this was at a time before, just before the iphone. so we're still talking about flip phones and other types of phones with a very small screens. so the whole texture of the expense to some degree was not as comforting as it is available

today with smart phones and larger screens. so i think we have learned that lesson, and a big part of what we've done that got us to the 1 billion transaction number i mentioned, is not just building mobile apps and experience on the consumer side but also helping our merchants who are by and large mostly small and medium-sized businesses optimize their website and their checkout pages for mobile devices. so that the the expense is as good as it can be on the smaller screen. >> so what's the next big thing to look for? where are we headed? >> one thing that is already live for us, and it's an experience they didn't have any other payment companies are also come in their way, matching or trying to do is what we call the one touch experience, taking advantage of the information

that the consumer has chosen to share with us, recognizing them for next time to go shopping, even at a different merchant and have shot at before, we can recognize them so that they don't have to type in information on a small screen. we can recognize them if they have chosen to opt into this feature. and begin improving both the shopping experience and the merchant check out. and in the other set that's coming out is at the point-of-sale, where today certainly paypal is less prominent, but finding the right match of convenience and merchant acceptance and speed and security, something all of us are working on, and that's coming. just who unlocks the right combination is yet to be seen. >> our time is almost up but i do, one phrase that was of interest was in your testimony,

you note that 17 of the 100 most unbanked places are in mississippi. how do you envision mobile payments increasing consumer options in those communities? >> so that's another challenge for the industry as a whole that we are eager to take on, and the more. today i'd say really the primary vehicle of linking the unbanked to mobile transactions is through prepaid cards or prepaid accounts of different kinds that different providers are offering. you know, and the art of course starting with the baseline that many other financially underserved today to have smart phones, and so -- >> i apologize, lifetime is over. trying to i yield back. thank you. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from california, this recording is, five minutes.

>> thank you very much, mr. chairman, and thank you to all the witnesses that are here enlightening us on what has been, what is, in what even may be coming in the future. i think the main concern of this domain is the safety and security of americans and people in our country, whether they are visiting or what have you, making sure that they feel comfortable and confident that we have a system that actually works, and hopefully works for as many people as possible. speaking of as many people as possible, but are still many communities in the united states after underbanked and underserved by financial institutions and instruments, et cetera. so they tend to not experience or see the safest and best technologies and, unfortunately, sometimes actually are subject to more problems because they don't have the best systems

available to them. that being the case, when it comes to these kinds of communities, how can mobile payment providers better reach minority communities and underserved or poor communities and ensure that these consumers also joined a safe and community commerce and everybody else expects to gain experience? the main thing there is certainly if there is a committee with a lot of wealth and a lot of activity and probably a bigger contributor to the billion transaction mark, you have other communities that want to be, participate, yet at the same time how do we make sure that those, that we have and even system that is available to them, really? professor? >> well, i think this is a true, truly important challenge. and i think that mobile payments

are an enormous opportunity to unbanked and underbanked individuals. unbanked individuals don't have bank accounts. underbanked individuals may not just have a tank very close by. and if we think about the use, the ability of someone to make a payment remotely or a to take a payment from an employer or to pay their rent using their mobile device and not having to take time off from work to do that or to take time to go to the bank to deposit checks and the like, i think that the underbanked communities that have bank accounts or other credit union accounts, et cetera but may not have time to get there during reasonable work hours are among the communities that will benefit the most from mobile payments. i think the opportunities in those markets are huge. i think they will help the citizens of mississippi and california and the other jurisdictions that are here. they will help inner-city people

as well, people who no longer have a corner branch of the bank to help them. and because, as mr. mueller suggested, the opportunities to use prepaid cards including payroll cards to dispense money out of them using devices of this kind. the opportunities for unbanked and underbanked persons and minority individuals residing in rural or very urban communities expand. the last thing i would say is that the least secure thing on the face of the planet in the united states, at least, is cash. so if you away to link to some form of an account and to use it as if you are using your bank account through a mobile payment, you may level the field for lots of people to participate in commerce, both the recipients of payments and as people who can make payments on time and, therefore, avoid

late fees and other charges that are associated. and that these opportunities are enormous for helping a lot more americans have a lot better access to payment options and do that in the past. >> my last question, because our time is limited, is it interesting that 60 minutes talk about this payment system in kenya that you touched on, mr. muller, that has to do with the texting, and it doesn't have to be a smart phone, et cetera. the thing that concerns me about that is that it's that i would imagine that the safety of those individuals in those transactions are a lot more vulnerable than perhaps what americans understand that we are not as vulnerable with assistance that advances we have. i'd like to know as quickly as possible, due to the constraints of time, the fact that in this country we do have regulations and would do the benchmarks and

pushed industry to make sure that they have safeguards for our consumers and our participants. is that something that's helpful to the industry or something that you can do without? >> i'd say certainly it's helpful in general. of course, the right kind of regulation. but in general, regulation is certainly one component that leads to consumer adoption. and as you said, if people viewed these kinds of transactions and it's really the same as cash with no purchase protection or no protection against unauthorized transactions, they would be much less inclined to use it. so regulation is one component of addressing that issue. industry efforts like visa and mastercard and paypal, zero liability. altogether to relate to the

broader mobile adoption for all of us. >> thank you. i yield back my time. >> that you reckon is the gentleman from kentucky mr. guthrie five minutes for questions. >> i was flying back yesterday with a biography of andrew jackson and it's amazing, moving an army, all the other things he did, one of his biggest concerns was always debate people. wasn't going to be barter, bank drafts? it was the big issue then. sarkozy knows really played into how he was able to move his army back of with the rest rule to talk about how we can move in the best and most, efficient and safe way. i was watching a football game this weekend as something other advertisements. i reversing the app are talking about here today. i grew up in a row grocery store. always a few things, so it appeared that anywhere that you can get a credit card, if you

can pay at a pump, then you can actually scan or whatever the technology is. so if any merchant takes a credit card and you the ability user application, is that -- >> so thank you for the question. when was a virtual anywhere, what we are talking about is very the hyper since publication that accept any credit card or debit card. we see virtually because we are not fully 100% there. their instances such as different readers, gas stations canadians and a small percentage of merchants with the technology, software needs to be upgraded for us to get to everywhere. we are not quite there yet but with substantially ahead of our competition. >> my first question was their level of mexico city at protection. you answer that i think. so doesn't prevent the consumer from doing it to themselves i

guess? are the things the consumer needs to do? once the hoosier phone, like if the old days when you swipe a credit card and you didn't throw the received wisdom of to get out of your garbage can is or something like that when you compress -- afte have you proted them from all? >> consumer is protected by password to get a fingerprint that jakarta open up the app. and there for everything they're doing is really sitting behind that level of protection. we don't publish that information is not easily accessible. the consumer last full control over the. so to that extent it is a secure. in terms of usability i think all mobile payments have usability issues. because people are for the most part their muscle memory today is credit card and debit swipes. it's going to take the ecosystem to work together to educate consumers about the damages adding more security payments and a new way of tapping, a new

whipping. this is happening in different parts of the work of western europe is a more cap centric payment country. however we are very optimistic about technology advances. five years ago the cell phone and smartphone penetration was different than it is today. new applications and services our quickly adopted, if they are helpful in making a bet. we are hopeful that there's enough security, utility and a better experience to compel consumers to move towards it is more technology centric way of thing. >> i understand paypal utilizes the cloud for storage of consumers payment information. why did you choose to utilize the cloud instead of storing payment information on the phone or on the adequate is a more secure i guess is the question? >> for us it was partly out of necessity and that we don't have the same access to mobile phone hardware and operating system that some of the other companies

that are operating point-of-sale payments through mobile devices do. but also we do think there is some advantage of storing the information in the cloud. certainly not storing any of the information on the device. that's clear and that's undesirable. but also we don't have the same access to the device as the handset manufacturer might. >> so being in the cloud, paypal is not a device, you're not device specific. >> yes. >> so what innovations have you seen over the last year or two that would make online payment more dynamic and less useful for criminal's? >> well, so certainly tokenization continues to develop. it's just started. so it's certainly not static by any means, but the first really

live implementation of the tokenization in a practical way that we've seen is a big step forward. the controls that can be built in for one time use of the token, merchant specific use of the token. all those are certainly a step forward compared to where we have been with the primary account number being stored and transmitted in many ways. so that's probably a major recent development. there are new ones coming out all the time that we read about, so it's an exciting field. with certainly dynamic code. sort of the three digit or four digit code on the back of your card that you're used to entering. now companies coming up with a capability to generate that dynamically and change it for every transaction. so it certainly, new

developments coming out of the woodwork to come. >> i only have 15 seconds. i'm not going to ask the question. i yield back. >> thank you. mr. kinzinger. >> thank you, mr.chairman, and thank you all for being here. i appreciate it. the innovation of mobile payment is at the forefront of many consumers minds, especially those that were considering purchasing a new smart phone and all consumers interest in the technology to ensure their transactions are safe and secure. like with many new technologies the subject is some suspicion for adoption and consumers want to know if their personal information including financial and personal health information will remain perfected and private. certain doses is foolproof in the technology world. we read about cyber attacks and successful hacks. consumers have a right to be concerned about new technology what i'm hopeful today's conversation will showcase some of the great strides in technology we have made and what its future could look like.