a senior fellow from the chair from the atlantic council. the second witness is the minister and we know you also. also from the selfie asia center for strategic studies , the third witness a senior policy advisor who is also served in the u.s. military in afghanistan. thank you for that. encountering corruption and then know that is a big job. this is a distinguished panel. keep your comments to around five minutes without objection it will be entered into the record also going

down the order of introduction. >> the to see you again at. i'm honored to testify today i appreciate this opportunity of whites continued the engagement is so important it in context of the challenge we face from the islamic ideology that britain's our citizens in values and way of life. rather than submit a statement i will refer to the recent paper on afghanistan and u.s. security that was the principal author. cosigned by former senior government officials of both parties with senators mccain and senators read audrey co-sponsors. their registers bipartisan agreement that afghanistan matters as a way for word despite all the challenges.

it should be seen in the context of a broader terrorist threat. we argued to maintain assets at close to current levels. 2014 were years of great political security and transition with clarity of long-term u.s. engagement tell the opportunity to turn that around. i applaud the president's decision to maintain the presence through 2016 and beyond is a important indicator of commitment to success in security. provides clarity there will be a significant u.s. military role in the future with no deadline. i wish clarity was provided several years ago it is critical the confidence that they can succeed to

demonstrate that they cannot clarity the afghan armed project will lot failed or will not collapse under pressure is crucial to the prospects of confidence with continued success for peace. preserving that is the priority in strategic goal must me clear there is space in afghanistan and for al qaeda or danish to flourish. with the evolution of new threats illustration should visit of this strategy for related several years ago is adequate they're doing the fighting and will continue to improve. any reduction must be commensurate with the capabilities and critical gaps of air support am logistics' must continue to close.

the development of their own air capabilities must be a priority. in this new context we should explore an effort to promote peace there are signs that we heard last week. after the setbacks of last summer the president deserves credit to renew the doors with pakistan to take concrete action not to support of the reconciliation reduce the ability of reducing the haqqani network to launch operations from pakistan that hinders negotiations. the path is different breeding conditions for peace to strengthen government to forge afghan political unity.

to succeed to processes must be continued and it must me clear the levels are available so afghans can build on the progress made and take responsibility. in these two demonstrated achievement in the government is in a reform program that is struggling to implement with security and economic implications as the economy develops the challenges considerable but they must understand the opportunity that they afforded is unique and must not be squandered. the challenge is one part of the long term threat facing

from violent extremists and highlighted by attacks in egypt and turkey and elsewhere. the goal remains to prevent afghanistan from becoming a platform from those to threaten us. we tend to dismiss the daesh presents us every branded taliban. but it will control ground connecting in syria we have a strategy that can work with a partner in the fight against terror but the clarity of commitment it increasingly can be a contributor. we must not lose sight as we did before. our efforts must be long term to develop a generational strategy to defend people and values

called draining the life from the ideology. military force must be an instrument but the extremism can only come from within the islamic world to play a leading role in the multifaceted effort. this is the context our future work must be seen. the success is part of the zero largest struggle including 1.five peace-loving muslims must win. our strategy is dealing with the state to state conflict and the discourse with public has not kept pace with the terrorist threat as it will exist tomorrow and in short we have serious work to do and afghanistan must me part of that effort. >> i will apologize we have

the bill that was produced last night at 12:00 and today they are still having discussions under way so as three step in and out it is not out of interest it is massive legislation we apologize for tending to that that does the fact afghanistan. >> i thought it was finished by now that was open i would be there. [laughter] >> that is a secret we're keeping. >> thank you. to the ranking members thanks for inviting me to offer on the strategy in afghanistan. although based entirely on my own views. mr. chairman after the

coalition in afghanistan the national security forces independently face the upsurge and had a higher casualty rate given the context of the situation including the emerging daesh the afghan national defense security forces are continued security threats environments in the future. and then to face the ongoing challenges in certain key areas from the force is in

the past. and during that transition period to have certain capabilities including the air force intelligence that takes longer for a tie-in but the presence of the forces and the decision to keep those troops beyond 2017 shows indigenous security capacity and respond to the threat the country faces. and then to think it would make a major difference so there are other domestic factors however the absence of the use of these forces

would directly heavy adverse impact. it said the strong message that afghanistan will not be abandoned. the impact along with the troops depend on the size and the rules of engagement. the support mission focus on devising and assisting at the core of ministerial level located north or south or east or west. united states leads in two of these commands providing

to this to the special security forces. the ratio of force to region of different regional commands causes a fact of the shortfall of the national security forces. and further there are uncertainties in the rules of engagement even if they are a engaged in fighting. the government said this cannot happen in a vacuum but the progress of the other areas including the

rule of law. it is strong for the unity government to fight corruption and nepotism within the afghan national security forces. that government faces a dermatologist. to improve governments by leadership. it should make extra effort to avert to conclude with the effectiveness of the afghan government. and for them to d grade debt taliban power but the first

two factors is to overthrow the fbi and their rent but that third factor to facilitate of the reduction of violence in afghanistan. thank you very much. >> chairman corker and honorable members of the committee be given the opportunity to appear before you today. as a civil society organization dedicated to ending corruption and conflict the witnesses have worked since 2011 traveling regularly with the civil society partners as one of the of the years the club

will witnesses but as the afghan accountability act makes clear there has been sound corruption to set up the procurement board and reviews all contracts over $1 billion. but the view from the ground is that corruption continues to grow in here is the important counter corruption initiatives. and then to pay that of private and that 90 percent of the afghans said

corruption and support probe -- a problem with daily life. most notably involving senior officials working with the ski and golf or a partnership of the land that should have been confiscated a cynical response is just to correct in and give up trying but there are immediate measures on corruption it is needed in three broad areas. key aspects and with a permit confirmed attorney general with the independent joint has had some issues

the equal number of members as the assets of the are to continue to a new challenge. put that capacity building to fight crime and corruption to braying his agenda back on track. as promised in the framework that 2012 should be aggressively pursued. to oversee the robust by neutral sector to be associated with the law enforcement but to fight corruption investigate them prosecute then significantly increase political engaged with is the central.

and then into the effective strategy with the ways the it means that their disposable. and finally with the regulatory framework with the accountability standards to have a secure environment to commit a fully implement the ( government partnership with the initiative. with the oversight of parliament. the establishment of a procurement board is a good start but not enough is hard for businesses to risk investing capital for the environment and for american

in businesses it is especially critical where mining should be a pillar of the economy that contributes almost nothing to the afghan budget what the same time the number source of revenue after narcotics. it could help to start the process and there is no extreme levels but there are tools available for go carefully placed capacity building are important. and law-enforcement investigation is the most

difficult actor. but the united states needs to establish a good governance with aggressive action to battle for afghanistan is not lost. thank you. >> we are privileged to have the people here. you worked with one of the most difficult people ever working with president karzai. and those that we believe is a good outcome for afghanistan. things he needs to put in place. he is not as much of a

politician as karzai and face about good governance and those types of issues but it will be difficult for him to be successful unless there is a secure environment. that is the number-one thing that will inhibit his ability that i could speak to that but the other two votes that we are not utilizing properly. >> the queue for that question. eerily is that the is a huge over the last couple years to be generated by his refusal to although the

league tried to negotiate the uncertain dollar dash. >> and alan now the beginning to recover and and it's why i said and his the first time. >> but there is a way that the characters will continue to support the afghan security forces. that is incredibly important signal to the region that we need to be diplomatically to find ways it to magnify and

leverage the strategic calculations among our adversaries. and they can but it is a new opportunity for all of us to move forward to try to counteract the kind of report they were so concerned about hearing from

and discuss the need to read their to go to where they're being trained and to see them through one of the fact that it is hard to detect but also other the thing over the next but he could

be successful without all. >> there are a number of factors that is the approximate number. but what we talk about is to get a cue from the recent nato discussions and meetings held wed continual to keep above 12,000 troops in afghanistan. and that would be discussed during the summit. but what i am talking about in five years is i see that gaps and the capability of the afghan national security

forces. but because of the lack of capabilities because they have the agility to respond and then to have the ability of the common space is it that have national security forces. >> but it could be compensated. >> it is the force multiplier with the

firepower and handles of the district therefore it will take a long time for the afghan national air force 2 also the intelligence and special forces operation. to be a static force to respond quickly it was the air strikes. >> my time is almost up such

a high percentage of people that the beach your then call up to keep the numbers we have a massive amount of trading that otherwise would be that case. >> with the national security forces and 157,000. and nt international forces. >> 90%? >> 90% our present. that means in november at

plus 75,000 per but in these hard -- are deployed. so then you have but the class not to go back to soon so if the politicians read this said about 5,000 a month. but that it makes it

difficult via questions and that has been a massive issued. >> unless you have paid but

perhaps could do you fear prairies where you like to see david faith concentrate to a as we've put in inner the first and a hen a permanent one they're current acting. >> is that a tirade but i believe that apprenticed with the attorney-general

that can prosecute corruption. we would their huge but then to operate concurrently and the question for the previous panel has demonstrated that. look at issues of the herby warlords but day act on

behalf of themselves that they need to switch sides are retreat because it is best for them regardless of the nation they will do so. we did see that with becky warlords in particular. also with the afghan national security forces themselves and with the police. they are considered highly predatory, extortion is higher than the taliban there are cases it could make rational sense for individuals to go to the side of the taliban and agreed with the grievances that, with the. take corruption one of the major reasons for local violence with the original

resolution mechanism they will naturally go to either side perhaps have the cleaner love all of grievance resolution and in our judicial services. you cannot get ahead in a security environment and undermines. >> that is helpful and i agree with your statement you do give us a road map how we need to try to develop the u.s. role in fighting corruption because it is related to the security of that country no question. dr. cunningham, in your statement put your finger on the principal challenge of

pakistan as it relates. the test isn't it takes concrete action not only to support reconciliation but to reduce the ability of the taliban and the haqqani network to launch operations to diminish the prospects for real negotiations. we have a complicated relationship. what kayhan the united states to to further the prospects of reconciliation of peace? >> congratulations for putting your finger on the most vexing question that immediately comes to the floor as to bring an end to the conflict.

so using my position with the atlantic council as somebody who's that in kabul three unhappier their media was there somebody from pakistan was trying to kill people i was responsible for i've a strong feeling about that dynamic. i feet of lubber's that we have tried to use as the ambassador said in his remarks, there has been a shift with the pakistan's leaders in a shift of their - - over rhetoric and the statements made in this lamas baud -- a islamabad open up new perspectives and the challenges to find a way

to change the strategic calculations to push towards the negotiations. but to hedge behavior on the part of pakistan that in their defense have suffered with their own fight in don't have very much confidence in development as a understand it and they have had questions about what the united states would ultimately do. we need to resolve those issues. and in our own interest.

>> that wouldn't prevent opening the doors and have a discussion with that looks like in a future that develops pakistan as well as afghanistan. >> pilot for word to your active the engagement as a private citizenry be to figure this out. it is so challenging the private discussions are different than the public discussions and the realities rinaldi difficult to see the reconciliation. i appreciate your comments. islet knowledge of your statement with the national unity government is part of

bush and reforms with the afghan state is essential to deal with the comments if we can put confidence in to the reforms to bring in all sectors or security and economic prosperity. and i can assure you it has had an impact. >> i have a lot of questions that i will just ask one. the administration strategy with the efforts to destabilize saddam was a positive. but then the election led to a potential disaster is stalemate.

it played an important role to help to broker the formation of a partnership and the title chosen that sets a high standard that all issues we're talking about whether security or anti-corruption depend upon the national unity government. that have a cohesive and professional is the working relationship and if you want to share positives or negatives, i am interested

in that dynamic. >> this is a very important question being campaign unfortunately that turned into a campaign that was not aimed at making a difference >> we don't know anything about that kind of election. [laughter] >> with the assortment of different groups in different interest, if they

agreed to form that government but the two major challenges but then to be effective. and those have their own interest. >> and for those in also

with the previous panel said they cannot fit those positions. with the qualified people because they should agree the allies should degree of the positions. second they have good relations. but listen to their best of their allies. this makes the appointment slow and also has another

problem as individuals become empowered. so therefore the solution is to legalize this system with a review of the constitution to work for the president to have the same power.

in to have the constitutional legitimacy however therefore we have seen an opposition within the government. >> you are such a of an important part it was a huge pool -- coup to form that unity government and anderson's one year in i am interested. thank you for your thoughts. >> i will have to decide if this is something i want to be remembered for or not. by way of context nobody

ever thought this would be easy. this is a difficult enterprise. they genuinely believe that they won the election. so did their followers. as we begin the discussion there is already a huge gap they had it won the election so why are they asked to go into a discussion? also in the context of a lack of clarity of the outcome of the elections would prove to be. but he then it countries that have experience with

coalition to find it difficult to come to agreement. there is no experience in doing this at all. it is no surprise there struggling. the relationship between the two men is good and to to their credit they took away the decision to put aside their personal preference and focus on the good of the country. the problem is keeping that focus is difficult and much more difficult for the people around them as they govern and make decisions and appointments. everybody is disappointed they haven't made more

progress. they remain committed to make it work because they believe that there is no better alternative than to making this work. the alternatives to forming the government can never create even if only formal unity, and our discussion began more than one year before it took place because they were concerned of the prospect leading to a break up in the country.

to talk about the levels because for many centuries, i see what has happened and they have looked into the abyss that it will continue to work because the alternatives are dangerous for them and for us. >> i am over time but can he address that please? >> as mentioned both candidates run on a strong anti-corruption platform so this should be transformative government debt government is more than

individuals there are at a number of varying quality that have to be contended with and those that remain within the government to be worked with. mall there is no data we continue to hear concerns that because of the of pre-existing patronage networks that there could be two sets of parties to pay off is an indicator while reducing that statistical analysis has grown and not shrunk according to the asia foundation and a survey. to put it in good legislative laws that our necessary but not sufficient and away from individuals to break to the patronage

network toward a professional government to work for the good of the country. >> you may answer from different directions but i appreciate your testimony. >> i want to follow-up. we want to make things happen quickly. there obviously dealing with the culture to put this in place over time that dissipate and go away but i wonder if there is any lessons learned to you might be willing to share with us?

and re-enter a country like this we sometimes get mixed signals relativity actions over time one of the issues we will deal with we never going with a good situation in by definition we don't go of their strong were stable if we go in it is because the situation is already a problem that means unfortunately corruption statistically speaking is already very high the state is fragile and most likely they have been through a number of cycles of warfare. so there will be cases where you have to get access for those that can give you the airfield and the intelligence that involves

cash but still headache out cash to win your friend then success will be extremely difficult weather looking anorak or afghanistan if you first go into a country everybody wonders what the new rules will be. with the accountability. what can individuals get away with? and with the entrenched

interest it might really now corruption and it is generational. to have a tremendous corruption issue howdy insurer that promotions are merit based ended is not diverting assets to put it on the of black market

rather diplomatically or militarily had a we start that process early on? >> and then to go into the of a crisis mode. those on the front end that may be out of necessity but on the existing culture of corruption with that leadership to recent times and is almost the joke is

dead right behind them as you talk about. that is a real challenge for us. to utilize your experiences around the world to look at the news and a new way. briefly at 30,000 feet do you have beddy-byes for those of us are on the inside as they tried to reconfigure the as in their own image. >> let me say how much i'd appreciate your continued

interest. won the of the pluses of the afghanistan but in both places is we tend to overestimate their reach and the capabilities it is extremely difficult to refashion or repair a broken stage. i went just say it is difficult.

so that piece of the military search but i was instructed that we did not talk about because the men realized we needed to reverse course. >> just to refresh with the times began? >> the summer of 2011. >> when i got there we were and we were still trying to fix every broken window in the country. so that generates the impulse that is said will to create to because i don't

think we understood very well. >> it did a lot of good. ruth the statistics but i guess i would say a word that we will not be doing that thing in the future. but to the extent. you have all been helpful and thank you for your service to our nation and what you provide now and hopefully you can help us in the future. . .