in the >> thank you everybody for coming. we will have plenty of copies available if you would like to have a copy signed. thank you for coming to book culture. [applause]

good evening ladies and gentlemen. colonist and editorial cartoonist is an award-winning graphic novelist and the author of nonfiction books about domestic and international current affairs. his cartoons appear at approximately 100 newspapers around the united states and from 2008 to 2009 he was president of the association of the editorial cartoonist and he's won several awards for his work including the journalism awards and the national journalism award and best book of the year award. joining him on stage tonight is chris hedges who spent barely two decades as a correspondent in central america the middle east, africa and the balkans. he's reported for more than 50 countries and has worked for the christian science monitor and the national public radio at the dallas morning news and "new

york times." he was part of the team of reporters at the times and awarded a pulitzer prize for coverage about global terrorism. he's also the author of several best-selling books including ward gives us meaning and his new book which is a rebellion to moreland. if of revolt to reappear here to celebrate the release of the newest book without any further ado please welcome ted and chris hedges. [applause] thanks for coming. i'm going to talk a little bit about my book and then chris will talk about whatever he's going to talk about and then we will have a little discussion and throw it out to the audience for q-and-a. if you have any questions, comments, insults, keep them and like the government legally barred your insults.

can anyone hear me? okay so i will talk a little bit about the buck. we don't have the ability to do a slideshow so it's good to be pages from the books that you can grab a copy of the book and look at it before you buy numerous copies. but i will just go through the thinking here. so anyway, this book like all my best ideas by publisher [inaudible] suggested they might want to do a graphic novel biography of edward snowden. and i was intrigued by the idea

that i was concerned that someone else might do a biography and so one of the things i wanted to do is to make the book discrete and in its own things that would be different from the autobiography or prose book but it's the hardest thing this format helped you get into this topic we know that he's a controversial figure and what he did has invoked a lot of strong opinions on both sides of the political spectrum but the question is for me what is the buck. what is the next project. i say i'm working on a graphic biography of edward snowden and i was shocked by how many people told me that they didn't know

who he was a and people that were well read and who were very aware of papacy issues and i was just amazed by and so i thought how is it we can live in a world where in 2013, two years ago what to me is the most important story of my lifetime more important than 9/11 how is it that it has faded into of security and the others were very vague on the particulars. isn't he the guy that said something? that is a quote i heard literally over and over something about nsa and cia. they were doing something wrong. what they revealed had to be slated in some kind of a very clear concise way that could be

easily digested by just about anybody. and so i realize it has to be laying out these programs that were revealed in june of 2013 to the guardian and "new york times" and "washington post" and to lay them out so because the only program that has been discussed in congress or by president obama in any way has been that of the funny metadata program which is the cooperation of the telecom like verizon, at&t and sprint and the information on your phone bill is the metadata switch the stuff with time you made the call, how long you talk to, but the phone number was. you can get a lot of information if you are calling an oncologist you might have cancer or someone close to you might have cancer. if you are calling mother jones magazine to complain about your subscription, you're probably

not a republican so you can tell a lot about people from the cultures of people and subsets of cultures of people and there's been a lot of articles. there's been a lot of misdirection by the government and by the press is largely controlled were allied in the government so for example they keep saying you don't have to worry about it because it doesn't actually intercept the voice concept of your called and that's true they are telling the truth about that because they have another program that does that and then the people say you don't have to worry about that program because it doesn't store the call and that is totally true in the program that stores the calls for five years or longer. it's all a form in utah and to make it -- a lot of these documents are-years-old so you

know the technology has only improved and since 2012, 2011 and 2010 when the documented data so probably the storage capacity is more into the search ability is better, no doubt. and so, the -- ainu lastly the third part of the book besides telling the story explaining what the programs do, the third thing had to be at the excess dental dilemma and one of two there are 1.4 million americans who have access to some or all of the classified documents that edward snowden took from the cia and booze allen hamilton. and the 1.4 million people who saw brazen violations of the fourth amendment. let's be clear about this.

no one on the political spectrum says that these programs are legal. they say they are defensible but they are necessary. they are expedient but they don't say that they are legal because they are not authorized under the patriot act. they are not authorized under the massive violations of the protections of unreasonable search and seizure. so, there is no question about that and so the issue really is why he did all of these -- for me i wondered about the society that we lived in over a million people could see this on a massive scale and only edward snowden and a guy named tom drake who did a similar thing to work in the system about ten, 15 years ago, these two guys are the only ones that have stepped forward in the last 15 years, the last 14 years since 9/11 at all to talk about the programs.

keep in mind there've been tedious whistleblowers and the nsa efforts to scoop up every bit of information possible has been something that has been dated back to the 1980s. the only foreign signals intelligence and what that means is nsa is allowed under the u.s. law to spy on foreigners they can spy on foreigners and americans when they are talking to a foreigner but they are not allowed to intercept americans talking to an american or e-mail or text in an american or whatever and so they are doing this on a massive scale and they started doing it on a mass scale with a program in the 1980s that was not widely reported upon in the united states but was well known in europe and so that program essentially made the effort to intercept every fact transaction, bank wire transfer, all these communications at the time and

time, general hayden who is the head of the nsa bragged that the u.s. did successfully intercept every bit of communications in the united states back in the 80s. so we are not talking about anything terrible. it goes back a long way. it's just much more efficient now and i open the book with the passages from the world depicted by george orwell in 1984 and where people are followed by cameras as they move to the streets, telephone, drones, planes and helicopters track their movements and most i think member believes the telescreens which is the tv that is on the wall in your house and you can never turn it off and you watch it, but it watches you. whatever the government watches they can see what you're doing in your room and they have it positioned in such a way that there is almost no privacy whatsoever in your room.

..

>> >> [applause]

>> this book wages a rebellion from that point from the back greatest living philosopher had not held. and bi dash he means it is not classical totalitarianism and does not find expression through the demagogue but to the anonymity of the corporate state in a classical totalitarian regime, a fascist communist revolutionary reactionary party. inverted totalitarianism of corporate sources to electoral politics, language of the constitution but yet internally has seized all levers of power.

we have as has been pointed out under a corporate coup d'etat to explain that it is over. and how does one resist? and how does one rebel? especially given the effects of climate change we just saw from the "l.a. times" this massive investigator project became a today showing exxonmobil was well aware of climate change and global warming decades ago but yet like the tobacco industry denied that reality in the name of corporate profit. not only a criminal offense but given the extent of the catastrophe they need the

extinction of the human species itself. so i talk about the moral imperative and i argue given the incredible power of the surveillance state coupled with militarized police forces and the evisceration of our civil liberties, finally we have to rise up not so much for what we can achieve but what it allows us to become we cannot use the word hope if we don't resist and that means physical resistance, a civil disobedience, and jail time. this is a passage from the book called "snowden".

>> i have been to war. i have seen physical courage. but this courage is not moral courage. very few of even the bravest warriors have moral courage. it means to defy the crowd crowd, to stand up as a solitary individual, to shun the intoxicating embrace, to be disobedient to authority even at the risk of your life for a higher principle. with moral courage comes persecution. american army pilot had courage to land the helicopter between a platoon of u.s. soldiers and 10

terrified vietnamese civilians during the massacre. he ordered his gunner to fire the machine gun on the advancing soldiers if they began to shoot the villagers and for this act of moral courage, thompson, like snowden was hounded and reviled. moral courage always looked like this defined by the state as treason the army attempted to cover up the of massacre and court martial thompson. it is the courage to act a hand to speak the truth thompson had it martin luther king had it in with those in authority once said about them they say today

about snowden. my country, right or wrong wrong, is the moral equivalent of another drought or sober. or drug. so let me speak about those strunc -- drunk with power with your web searches and file transfers phone records your live chats, a financial data medical data civil court records in your movements those were all washed with taxpayer dollars. those who have banks of sophisticated computer systems along with the

biosensors are scanners and face recognition technology and those who had obliterated your anonymity your privacy and your liberty. there is no free press without the ability to protect the confidentiality to make public the abuse of power. inside the government who dare to speak out of the system of mass surveillance have been charged as a spy or hounded into exile. with the surveillance state to create a climate of

paranoia to make democratic consent possible in eating and as full spectrum dominance is not a free state it will use it in history has seek greater control. it is not to discover crimes but to be on hand when the government decides to rest a certain category of the population. the relationship between those that are watched and tracked in those who watch and track them is a relationship between master

and slave. in those that become delusional the former director of the national security agency hired a hollywood set designer to turn the command center into a replica of the bridge of the starship enterprise and he could sit in the captain's chair and pretend he was picard. james clapper the director of national intelligence had the audacity to lie under oath to congress this was a rare glimpse into the theater that now characterize american political life. a congressional oversight committee holding public

hearings is lied to and knows it is being lied to and the person who lives knows that the committee members knows he's lying in the committee to protect security clearance say and do nothing. they listen to everyone and everything above the german chancellor, they but most of the leaders of europe. they have intercepted the talking points from the one search -- secretary general and head of a meeting with president obama. what security threat was posed of catholic cardinals the german chancellor and

the un secretary general? businesses like the brazilian oil company they carried out a major eavesdroping effort on the united nations climate change conference in 2007. they bub to their ex lovers and wives and girlfriends and then nsa stores data in perpetuity. i was a plaintiff before the supreme court in the case that challenges the warrantless wiretapping dismissed because they believe the government's assertions and that our concern of surveillance was speculation. no standing and a right to

bring the case we have no way to challenge the assertion that we didn't know was a lie and tell edward snowden. the fourth amendment limits the states' abilities to raise specific place time in the event by a magistrate. and with the arbitrary search and seizure of all personal communications former vice president al gore said correctly that snowden disclosed evidence of crimes against the united states constitution. we have been fighting have made no headway by a appealing to the traditional centers of power only after

he documents the crimes committed by the state a genuine public debate began. in the president where previously dismissed from state surveillance by insisting of judicial oversight three judges have ruled on mass surveillance saying it was unconstitutional and the third to back it. none of this would have happened without snowden. he had access to the full roster of everyone working at the nsa and could have made public the entire

intelligence community to undercover assets worldwide. he could have revealed their freedom station and mission in shutdown intelligence system in one afternoon. but this was never his intention. he wanted only that until he documented to be carried out without our consent or knowledge. our politicians including clinton argued that snowden could have turned internal mechanisms to have grievances heard. but i can't tell you for personally experience that this argument is as cogent as the authors -- offer made

from the bad t party. from "alice in wonderland". have some wine. alice looked all around but there was nothing on it. i don't see one. there isn't any. [applause] >> how should we do this? >> any questions?

>> your discussion of moral heroes of what is legal or moral is some examples of saugerties is that the vague moral hero? and a great admirer of the philosopher who writes about the dilemma of one faces when confronted with a radical evil. and richie finishes the university of heidelberg she writes she had to of learned everything she was taught in order to become a moral being. she herself joined an

underground zionist group that attempted to help german jews believe to their british mandate of palestine until she is picked up by the gestapo, almost killed expelled stripped of her citizenship and became stateless. i think this system of inverted totalitarianism, the corporate states is one where we as citizens have not lost our voice but our ability to make our most basic rights respected. we have example after example of how what it is we as citizens expect that is irrelevant to ruth corporate

power to go across the political spectrum but a pass is anyway. from the defense national authorization act overturns 150 years of domestic law to permit the military with those sacks of extraordinary rendition on the streets of american cities we won the southern district of the york and then to be stripped of due process and how old indefinitely. during bad legal battle an opinion poll went out and that section had 97 percent disapproval rating accords

have appended our most constitutconstitut ional right that is the you get this right to petition the government and desperately it did not want to rule with the issue of privacy so they denied by standing which did get to the supreme court with the plaintiffs challenging the award -- wiretapping therefore he doesn't have the standing and a threat out. we have seen them with activist and the activists

will tell you they organized the communities in oklahoma and pennsylvania and colorado to educate those communities then the superstructure of the state bans the ban whether the texas senate or the high court so then it becomes a weapon to crush dissent in that is where we are. we have the wonderful smoky and mirrors political bonneville on track to cost a $7 billion there is all sorts of ways to distract us but the naked fist of the state especially those people of color were they are gone down an armed daily in the streets and if not

terrorize to the streets then locked in cages. if you create pleasing and strip the segment of a population of their rights like we have poor people of color and they become privileges and they can be taken away from everyone also you have created a legal and physical mechanism by which there should be addressed those to be applied to everyone else. >> everything he has said is true and mainstream and if you told me 20 years ago that if someone said these things i would have thought they were a crackpot.

it is amazing how the system of checks and balances have nothing of this sort. so quickly so of great example is the disputed florida election u.s. supreme court was never supposed to hear that case because of the united states elections are decided by the state's so when the florida state supreme court ruled for the recount and surging counties that was supposed to be the last word. the u.s. supreme court even took the opinion 2.0 this is not a precedent and should be relied upon in the future by yet they stepped in and and installed bush. he did not win the state of florida he would not have one but the full reach out

one can criticize the strategy not to ask for the state to why a recount from al gore because there would be a bigger than ever cracked - - democratic undercount so i wonder how his math skills are but what is amazing is i remember when the decision came through. i was overlooking harlem and i expected to start to hear glass breaking people screaming in the streets or what would have happened if any number of countries around the world and nothing happened i wonder if there is something about the american character?

where we are in a society step in this political structure? overthrew popular culture to take it. >> but the problem is when they carry out the egregious violation of the norms it is not immediately apparent what they have done. there is a great book of a lawyer with the nazis take power in d.c.'s the effort they make to subvert the owosso on the surface it seems as if there is a continuity when in fact, there is a radical legal

change that becomes the structured you oppose the totalitarian system. that was true even with stalin's russia. there was opposition or a dissident press but it takes time and there is a moment in the book where he describes the fire that becomes the excuse to impose martial law and the next morning everybody goes to work and there were people that congregated that the social democrats were so bright in the face -- they fled to switzerland bellies they have the courage of

their convictions so what we have seen as a similar process corporate totalitarianism is a different process and in terms of the technological capacity to be far more frightening so what you see and what you allude to you are right as an incredibly radical a moment as we defend ralph nader who did that elect george bush in they had to destroy and represented those interest by corporate power nobody has working harder than him

but you are right to point that out as a seismic moment but probably the most pollution into the planet is entranced by these electronic hallucinations but the crux of this issue is when this transformation takes place, it is largely imperceptible then it is too late. >> i want to attach on what he said his father with his career and studying the family system is the root of

so many problems that we just don't have really good leaders to give those of leverage to stand up for what is right. i try to bring this up all my life it was not popular. the lack of fitness fitness, health, high standards and standing for what was right at set koch a young age and i was always trying to get people to stand up for more more than just having a good job or pay your mortgagee and having kids. and i would always point out that low standard that was set you have to dig a hole in the floor because the standard was so low end and make excuses.

>> so what happened and we can go back talk about the process of mass propaganda that destroyed radicalism progressive movements been morphed to move to madison avenue beginning with corporations which through propaganda up ended overturned a minute -- values and replace it with hedonism with the profligate consumption. so often what we referred to as american values are corporate impose values. that anxiety is all instilled and what is

fascinating but because of this preoccupation in not in the traditional religious sense how is it with the other? is a reflection of the narcissism of the culture that is a pernicious force. >> this brings us to a question about snowden why was he different willing to sacrifice his life? what was said about his separate - - about bringing your background?

his parents are divorced. so what. have the americans his age are divorced. he was in the boy scouts and so was i.. healer untrustworthy and honesty and learning they were dishonest with the american people if they're the the incident two-tiered begins the nsa station in that geneva under cover and he heard fellow cia agents talking how they flipped a swiss banker whose records they wanted access to a token amount and got him

drunk'' - - called the police and had arrested for drunk driving the miraculously rescued him and they were laughing about it because a compromise to end to the point he had to turn over the documents that was kept from the cia. and snowden thought it was absolutely disgusting, and american, cheating, underhan ded and gross but it is a basic example you have seen the best it is no big deal so what is it about snowden? with that other whistle-blower that i talked about in washington whose

career was completely destroyed and attempted to go through the system battle the privacy violations but wasting billions of dollars of taxpayer money it was corruption with those private contractors he went to the inspector general and did everything the you are supposed to do but they raided his house and set out to destroy his career career, blackballed him, destroyed his marriage now he is working at the genius bar at an apple store. that is where he works. what is it about you? he kept saying it was wrong.

i kept insisting yes but what about your colleagues? they saw the same thing. they didn't say anything you didn't think it was wrong but i realize it's he was a hard wired the closest he could get to it is he was raised and vermont with the local governments of town redeems a local democracy you feel like you are participating in your government. but to me he is a role model

someone who does the right they even when their hurts it is said definition of integrity. where did we go wrong? pancreas talks a lot about morality we're actually talking about his g

>> >> and in this book to spend a lot of time interviewing those in those released

5 million emails including those that show the government of private security firms were attempting to link the non-violent occupied movements with al qaeda. we use that in our trial. but one of the problems is a look back in history at these figures these grey resistance figures sitting bull, and to the kind of hold them up but we are unable to see those figures in our midst because the states would be one of them because they had effectively demonize them and makes us afraid to identify to stand up for them.

that was true for all resistance figures and profits than people forget how he didn't figure martin luther king was while he was alive. and if history is important to but oftentimes a peak we don't learn the lessons of history or understand what it means to make moral choices and the costs that comes with taking the more risk because of there is no risk it isn't much of the state's. >> it is interesting to me with this noted it is sent history it is right now. he is the typical american and the guy.

he looks ordinary. white, a technocrat starting off as their right we libertarian he gave money to ron paul. and is probably more relatable to the average american also he is so young. 29 years old that somehow it is different from rosa parks or someone like that i don't think they can be rosa parks but except i never would have been hired by the nsa to do something like that. what was 19 they had the cia recruiting booth i talk to them because talk about

carrying record fish of the soul of my shoe to have the drops in red square. they said we will never hire you. because you attended socialist meson campus. they said the only higher mormons from utah which is why we do so well in the intelligence community. >> the content of the phone conversations and the phone calls it started in a beta form a view to audit is

expanded all the time and build with hundreds of billions of dollars. >> good government used this data against individuals in the courts of law? >> the vast majority of this data will never be looked at. 99.99% since on servers and what happens is in the past whenever someone fell under suspicion they could be searched or tract or followed bayou needed permission from the magistrate and since then 11 in particular but before that but certainly after cover the new paradigm is

they want to collect everything every communication and they store them and then search for custer's hand for patterns and individuals. so even if you believe right now president obama is the best test president we will ever have the anti-government is the best we will ever have, the fact is president's change, regimes change. >> guest: president ted cruz or president donald trump to use that information and differently? possibly. i'm bored the united states and a mother is french and when i was 181981 reagan had just become president.

so i did the patriotic saying iran up to fifth avenue to declare my french citizenship. there was of light around the block waiting. what i finally got the papers had got my id card in hand passport and they handed me a birth certificate and to they explain to me at the beginning of world war ii with the gestapo they capture the essences that showed religious

identification so the french government passed a new law that would no longer retable of records but they don't have of list and for example, because they destroyed those records. so in the french are cry uzziah listed so a few years ago against six lanes of traffic a cop pulled me over and said what a the fuck are

you doing in the rand informations. it is on the spanish border and as a street accent no way anybody learned english and united states about that accent. but there is some information i personally m a moral person but there are those that i would screw over. >> the reason all totalitarian seasons is the way that it feels threatened

and it has the capacity to pull up the files to criminalize the entire groups of people based on innocuous and data to be interpreted in such a way to tar the individual that is why the fascists did it. it is about that corporate cobol and that growing awareness on the part of the of wider public everything they have been told that this sector in the hands of the elite it is not further democracy it is obliterated

it has savaged the environment. as an asset has understood it has been invested in the election increasingly as it is resort to harsh forms of oppression that were outlined in 1984. we got huxley end access to cheap mass-produced goods and pharmaceuticals now it is gone the pharmaceuticals are still there but everything else is still there that is less officious

it is first in for most along that system. i do not have a website i don't tweet i do not have day facebook page or instagram or a television. i have a telephone and 5,000 books in my house. >> why is he still living in russia? because his passport was revoked.

>> one of the things said in is in the book. the u.s. government asserted falsely that the chinese allowed snowden to leave on the invalid passport but that is false that did not happen when he boarded his played in hong kong he had a valid passport had been noticed the new ones have the chip logo? you may think it is for your convenience is a state-controlled what the secretary of state hillary clinton did that it disqualifies her she turned

off his passport while he was in the year. he was only supposed to change planes when he arrived he was supposed to continue to cuba but they told him he could not board because his passport was not valid. that is in say the u.s. state department can just flip a switch to turn you off like that. is her from a national security point of view was just assume they didn't know if he still had those documents with him. so you will austrian pianist in russia of all places? one dash making stranded in russia of all places? it is completely immoral. and then to be invited to go to ecuador.

so how does he get to another country that would pose to him without the airspace controlled directly or indirectly by the united states? the president of ecuador was visiting moscow for a trade function for a trade meeting and there was are rumored that snowden was aboard his played i'm sorry the bolivian president. the austrians forced him to leave and. he was angry there was a risk to his life in this action so risking the life of a foreign head of state to capture the guy that obama characterized as a 29 year-old hacker is over the top.

but that is what would happen if he cannot get anywhere. he can only go to countries that border russia and hope for the bass. he could go to kazakhstan. >> talk about though weak points of the culture? >> american culture? >> that is another program. [laughter] what is happening in the united states reminds me of yugoslavia with the ability to respond that is carried

out by supper identify the liberal elites it does as much to working men and women to carry on that trajectory. in cellophane a rise that bin legitimate frustration even with the selfie identified liberal elites they turn on liberal values themselves with is the two-party militia it has always been part of the virus of american society.

but what happens is you direct the rage toward muslims or undocumented workers liberals the minister intellectuals and that is just part of the physical and moral disintegration we live in the city where one of a fellow citizen was choked to death of an armed never committed a crime and killed on the city's sidewalks and no police went to jail. the danger of that in the violence we're seeing right

now the day arce lashing out understandable which is not to condone but it is understandable is happening in the united states with the assassinations of law enforcement these and not confrontation is but assassinations. i hope it is not a pattern but there's so much evidence now that society has seized up it is not functioning at all. it with 54 percent of discretionary spending that does not account for the nuclear weapons program these intelligence streams

with iraq and afghanistan but of course, for a small corporate cobol of rupert grumman so as american citizens we are forced through austerity repressive measures it is taken out on us. is to be chronicled in and

unfortunately that frivolity of death to unleash a dark force of a violent society of a very violent culture. . .

you know, in other countries, if there is a dispute over an issue, there's a battle. there is eventually one side prevails and then it's over and mostly coming yes the losing side goes home and is happy that it's over. they were never crashed. the resistance isn't gone. the confederate battle flag still flies in the state capital.

they never got over it. in the liberalism and progressivism to try even when it has the support of an overwhelming majority the losers don't admit they've lost. i find it just as a political commentator the shift is baffling. it could be like having the same stupid arguments over the same shit forever endeavor but thanks everyone for coming. of course we would be happy to sign your numerous copies of the books that you're buying it if you don't buy the book, you should at least buy a book,

thanks for coming. [applause] thank you ladies and gentlemen for coming. we ask that you remain seated. if you haven't purchased a book yet we do have them available towards the back of the store. thank you. >> "after words" is next on book tv. this week world medicine association professor examines health care inequality. he is interviewed by christine of the global health council