readers. here's our primetime lineup. >> david ritz, what do you do for a living? >> i am a ghost rider.

>> host: a ghost rider. what is a ghost rider? >> guest: a ghost rider is an author who writes in the first person of another person. >> host: how did you get into that business? >> guest: it's a long story. at the short end of the story as i was an advertising guy after college and after graduate school at a made up my mind i was going to go meet ray charles and talk him into letting me do an authorized biography of him. because i wanted to win the pulitzer prize and nobel prize, and i do know anything about those writing. so i had a hard time introducing myself to him. instead of -- anyone is able to do it through my tenacity.

and when i did, this agent told me, you know, you want to do his autobiography. and i said no, i don't. and he said yeah, you do. i said i don't know how to do that. i don't know what a ghost rider does. he says, well, you will earn a lot more money if you do a ghost written book because it's a much larger market for a ray charles book. and i said i still don't want to do it. i want to do a biography under my own name. and then the agent asked me a question that really changed my life. the question was, which book would you prefer to actually read, a book written by an egghead like you about ray

charles, or a book about ray charles written in his voice i said i would much prefer to read the book with a raised voice. then you said -- and he said you should write the book you want to read, not the one that you believe you should write. that kind of changed everything. and then when i got with ray and i discovered there was a kind of musicality in his voice, because as you know he learned -- we learn to speak before we learn to something. then it occurred to me, if there's a musicality in his voice and when i kind of create his voice on the stage until page, in other words, when i pretend i am him, when the eye of meat becomes the eye of him, i will these sort of making music. there isn't anything i would rather do than to make music.

then in doing ray's voice i discovered i had a gift for it. i'm not sure what the gift is but it's something about the approximation of the force. because as you know, if you just do a transcription, in other words, the words i'm telling you now, they are just that are transcribed and you kind of read the transcription in the context of a book, that is not a good representation of my voice. because one thing i learned early on is that the i here's much differently than the ear. when you try to great delivery voice it's an artistic act. it's an active part of this. you are creating the impression

that this person talking to you is talking to you in a conversatioconversational way. so in order to do that you have to move from the literal transcription to a kind of scoping, i don't know exactly what to call it but you sort of, giving a person a literary voice, and that is i said is art your it's not a clerical function. i before i begin to do it, it was. >> host: gidget any connection with ray charles? did you have any connection to the writing? >> guest: yeah, i had written in high school, in college, and i've been advertising and i'd written academic essays and journalism. i do a lot of writing. so i mean, i was comfortable with the act, but not this act

of being a ghost. i was entirely new. i went to college and majored in english that i went to graduate school. i got an m.a. in english, but all that collegiate training didn't prepare me for being a ghost rider. i mean, i had never contemplated it. the only two books that i really had in my consciousness were, when was the autobiography of billie holliday, lady sings the blues, which i loved as a young boy. and i knew that that would require a ghost rider. i remember i read the book when i was 12 or 13 and it was, it had on the cover, as told to william dusty. i remember asking my father, who is this guy, william dusty? he said his problem that i

actually wrote the book. i said no, no, no, the book was written by billie holliday. it's all in her voice and she's talking to you. i remember my father told me, back, that's what he sort of does for her, giving you the idea that she's actually writing the book. and i remember asking, does he get to go over to billie holliday's house? and my father said, i presume he does. and then i remember i said, that's the job i want. and that's the job i have. >> host: when we look at some of the book view of ghost written, it's a long story, my life, willie nelson. >> guest: it's just about to hit the stores. that i am on the cover. at the bottom. >> host: did you appear on the cover of the ray charles but? >> guest: i've always appeared that i think on every book other than one. and you know, in the beginning

when i begin come and i did the ray charles book edited and the books, it was important for me that my name was certain size. because i still have not gotten over this idea that ghost rider's public debt as something of a subcategory. ..

>> reveal very much about her inner life. so the book came out and i wasn't happy with the book. i took about 14 years and continued my research on her and in october of 2014i put out my

own biography of reasons that i called, i called respect because i didn't feel i had honored her art of complexities of her story enough in doing her autobiography, but i don't expect to do that any time soon. the books that i have done on ray charles or robinson, marvin gay, i am pleaseless. i feel from a historical point of view if you want to get to know these people and hear them talking to you and hearing them telling you their stories, the books that i've done with them are accurate and good and filled with function and heart, but in

the case of i just didn't feel that way i felt like i out it to her and history to do my own version. >> when you make an an -- arrangment, first of all is there a nondisclow >> disclosure agreement? >> i give away all control. i remember, peter, i was in a conference and said, we shouldn't even be here and that's a -- that's not a

biographyer, one of the reasons why i can't trust his book is because i don't have any editorial content. i didn't agree with him. holy ghost and autobiographies is looked at -- is looked at as a classic, but going back to the point of control, but one of the points i made with that when you give more control because it isn't on the table with a point of contention, so that the star knowing that he or she has the ultimate editorial content and

control over the content can relax and you're able to gain more intimacy that day. usually at tend of the process i gained enough of the trust of the star that i can pretty much control the content of the book. you know, there are times where they don't want this in there or that in there, but -- but i'm generally i kind of think our biggest addiction of all is control and any time i can give away control i'm a happier person and i think i work with greater integrity and greater empathy because what ghost writing is all about is empathy and compassion because in order to get people to open their hearts and tell you what's happened in their lives, their conflicts, they have to feel as though as you are not judging

them and that you don't love them on a certain level and -- and so when -- if i've done well and i think i have, it's because i've been able to open up my heart with the people that i've worked with and established this kind of intimate report because, you know, in a certain way i'm a surrogate for the person who reads the book, i'm a surrogate for the reader. many, many people would like to be in my position and get to hang out with ray charles or willy nelson for days and weeks at a time and hang out at the kitchen table and hear stories, so i'm there just not for me, but for, you know, all those members of people who want to

gain access to these people. >> host: is it profitable? >> guest: it is. i mean, one of the other challenges -- i mean, you know, it's interesting, i was just at a conference over the weekend, music conference in seattle and a person asked me, what do you think the purpose of a -- what did she ask? what is your purpose as a writer and i said, i have two. one is to avoid a nervous breakdown and the other one is to sort of make a -- make a living and the two tied together because if you have a nervous breakdown you can't make living and if you're making a living, you can't have a nervous breakdown. for me as a freelance writer,

it's been really important to make a living and not go nuts and ghost writing has been a great way for me to get from a financial point of view because there's a built-in market for stars. they are an audience. also they come to you with a story, now, you know, i have written biographies and novels. i have written lots of stuff but i go -- i keep my concentration on ghost writing because it's where art and commerce and i am

a commercial writer at heart. i mean, i -- i want people to read my books and i want them to have a large audience and i'm conscious of that and i've always been and that's partially because i come out of the advertising business. the surprise for me -- i gave up advertising because it became too easy and create a challenge with god. i've been ghost writing now for maybe 41 years and i'm still with idea of you to ask my, ghost writer book, i have to get to know you, i have to try to

enter into your heart and head and get a good kind of feeling for how i might pull off and even beyond the sort of mechanics of -- there's also will i be a good enough psych ologist. i've been sort of talking. >> host: what if you agreed to write the book and i said, i don't want your name on it? >> guest: that'll be hard. that actually happened to me a couple of times. it's interesting that you asked me that because i think i would like to be a person who could answer you and tell you, i wouldn't care.

i think that would be a more chilled-out version of me. however, my ego. now, ego, one of the reasons i happened to be a august writer is -- ghost writer had i made it big like stephen king, i would be -- my mega mennia -- mania would go nuts. ghost writing, in order to be a ghost writer, a good ghost writer, you have to deal with your ego and you have to sub mothering and suppress and tend to the hunger of your ego. you just can't have what it want because what it wants is what i

told you in the original story, wants to twin nobel prize. that isn't going to happen in an autobiography. it's just not. i thank god for being a ghost writer because i wanted to earn money and get more gigs. i tend to -- relatively chilled out in that area, but not completely. so to go back to your question, if you said to me, do my book but i don't want your name on it, my answer to you might be,

good, but give me another $80,000 to keep off my name. >> host: you get a set fee? >> guest: every book is a different sort of negotiation. there are no rules. you know have an agent, your agents usually negotiates with the stars manager, but every book, but every book is different. >> host: somebody else you've written with is tavis smiley. >> guest: this is number three and we are working on number four. how did i meet tavis? the publisher at the time a man named steven ruben had tavis

under contract for an autobiography and i had written a book for steve, a big mogul business. he was president of colombia records during michael jackson days. in any event, ruben thought that tavis and i would be a good part and last year he and i did a book together and martin luther king, jr. t last year of his life and recently we worked together on the book of myia myiaaangelou. he appreciates what what i do

and shows me great respect and also i love how he speaks and i love his voice and he's a good story teller, so it's been a great combination >> is the ghost writing business a big business that we don't know about? >> guest: the one area that we haven't talked about is deep ghost, which means you don't have your name on it. you touched upon it earlier. a deep ghost is a person who has ghost-written a book, typically politicians use a deep ghost, i don't know whether a majority of books written by politicians,

but a large number of books by politicians are ghost written. so yeah, it's -- i tell you one interesting story about that. i was once on an airplane to go on a conference and i was next to a guy who is well known novelist who i won't name because i don't want to hurt his feelings and he asked me what i did for a living and i told him, well, that's interesting and then he asked me which books i had done and i told him and he said, the only problem i have with that he said, i don't have a lot of respect for a person who wants to write his life story and does not do it by himself, and i turned to him and i said, why. you can have a great story but not have the shot to be able to

tell it. just because you don't have to write it doesn't mean that the world shouldn't enjoy it. i mean, you know not everybody knows how to write a 400-page book, cohesively and it's hard to do it. and i think there will always be a need for ghostwriters and i'm glad because there will always be people with compelling stories to tell who just don't have the training, you know, to do it. i hope to do it until i can't do it anymore. >> host: david ritz, what's your connection to marvin gay?

>> guest: well, i loved him a lot. he was another guy i chased after because i wanted to do his autobiography. i just add -- adored him. in 1979, in 1978 he put out an album called hear my dear which was autobiographycal music. and the critics absolutely up and panded and i loved it, hoping he would read in times, he did and he called me and we got together and began working on his book.

at the time he was not in great shape. he went to hawaii and england. that's where we wrote sexual healing together, the son which was my way of trying to help him understand just what he was going through. so anyway, we wrote the song together. it was a big hit, he came back to the united states but most tragicically he was murdered by his 1984 before he and i had a chance to complete his autobiography, so i took a in

1985, i wrote a book called divided soul, which was my biography of him and that's, again, unusual for him because it was not a ghost-written book. had i had given a choice, i would have much peferred to have done autobiography. i couldn't, he was gone. he was sweet, gentle and troubled but cristmatic and very like a prince, he was princely. he had an e -- elevated.

we were high. almost all of the time that i worked with marvin, i don't think i was ever with him when we weren't high together. i mean, his main thing was pot and at the time i was a heavy pot smoker and always had cocaine. i mean, the answer is yes. >> host: do you make a lot of money off the song? >> guest: it's been an incredible hit. helped put my kids through college. it's been sort of amazing how popular that song has been over the years, and it's one of the proudest establishments for me

because, you know t idea that i would get to work with marvin gay and that i could help him put into a song, what was going through his mind and he liked tavis, he was also a wonderful collaborator in that he -- he appreciate it and he saw talent. he was a literary person hymn. he -- himself, the bible and he was encouraging full appraise for others. >> host: seemed like you worked with a lot of african-american ghost writing. >> guest: i have. i just love african-american

culture. part of what has given me my motivation is that i'm drawn to the music, but then i'm drawn to the musicians, so i can try to understand what -- what drives them, what in their past or what in their head or what in their heart enables them to create this amazing music. so, you know, i kind of -- my life i kind of moved through the groove to the african-american music. >> host: what's your background? >> guest: i'm jewish, i was born jewish in 1943, i'm 71 yore's --

year's old, i became a christian in 2005, maybe nine or ten years ago. it's interesting too because you asked me about african-american music and i've been drawn to the african-american churches. everybody seemed to not just be having a good time but something was happening in there that seemed important and rich and warm and loving and encouraging, but, you know, i always had my nose pressed against the glass and when i got to be an old man, i thinkly go in that church. i'm in that church and i'm getting the kind of nurturing that i've always -- i've always wanted to have, is because of the music drew me into the

church. it's the love and positive energy and the acceptance of others that i hear in the music. you know, the glow, the excitement, kind of nurturing that i hear that i think it's holey. one interesting thing in the book that i wrote, "respect" one of the reasons she's as great as she is because she had a father who was a well-known preacher in the african-american community. and one of the things he taught her is that it's all god, jazz,

r&b. he kind of went against the traditions of the time and said, you can't sing pop if you don't sing gospel. one of the reasons she's a great singer is she has no conflicts with that. that's what i believe. i believe you can listen to lightening hopkins and money waters and bb king and be as prayful as listening to jackson. >> host: nondisclosure agreements, are there things that you would like to have put in the willy nelson book and you have signed an agreement that says, no, i can't put that in here and i can't talk about it?

>> guest: no, i didn't have nondisclosure agreement. they have id -- editorial control. they can cut out what they want to cut out. i didn't sign a piece of paper that i cannot tell the world that he told me not to tell. in the case of willy nelson he sort of basically did say anything. he was a generous guy and a gentleman and he didn't throw anyone under the bus. that whole issue of nondisclosure and censorship has never been an impediments to my work other than the case of aritha where i did kind of feel as though i wanted to tell more, that there was more to the

story. >> host: has your stutter been an impediments in your lifetime? >> guest: t interesting that you mention that. the music critic, robert, recently did an overview -- review of the retha book and he did an overview of my career. i appreciate it very much. in it he said he thought that my stutter helped me gain the sympathy and empathy of people i talked to and because as a stutterer i feel to be more pathetic and vulnerable than happens i am and i do think i'm

pathetic and vulnerable that in his view my speech impediments has helped me as a ghostwriter and i think he might be right. i know that i've struggled with it my whole life and you know someone asked me the other day, if you took a pill and it wouldn't make your stutter away, would you, i probably would. i still think i still fantasized about fluency. well, what the hell, i'm going to stutter but it don't look too good but it doesn't sound too good but it's me. and then there's that that it is

-- that's an emotional on tactical. the other thing is that it's an honest representation of my mood in a given time. in -- in other words, with you in this interview i have stuttered much less than i normally do because you have made me comfortable, just your kind of vibe. ..

so in that regard it is a good barometer of what is going on with me from the emotional part. >> host: if a politician approached you to write a policy book or a history book, would you take the assignment and what would go into that? >> guest: it is interesting that you mention that. one of my fantasies as a ghostwriter is to be a political ghostwriter. i would love to write presidential speeches. i think it would be a kick in the head. i think i have got the chops to do it. i think i could get obama

down undo it. you know, no one has ever offered me the gig. in answer to your question, i would do it with a politician who i didn't think -- his policies were way off mine, but if i felti felt comfortable with the politicians point of you and thought he was up to good i would positively do it. you know, one analogy about a ghostwriter i get is, we are kind of like an attorney in court, arguing for your client. put your agreed for the claim is two words, is basically believe me. and i will do it if i believe the person.

in other words, i have worked with musical stars where i have not quite an agreed and they did not work out. so the idea of doing a book with the politician would be great command i have done books with sports stores, gary sheffield was a baseball player. laila ali a boxer. i would love to do. abcawun does your name get out they're? once you've got your name on a book to somebody see it? how does a snowball into another book? >> guest: ii am still hustling, and i believe in the hustle. i will tell you a quick

story. when i did the 1st book, ray charles, i thought the next day i would get a call from paul mccartney and mick jagger, eric clapton and have gigs for the rest of my life. such a megastar. nobody called. in one of the things i learned as i can't count on the books that i've done to generate more work. to go out and -- i have an agent to above was also very proactive. is it is david de leon. but i don't think anything for granted. i also have to say, and maybe this is what kept me

as a ghostwriter, i like the hustle. i mean,, i like cold calls. i think it's good for us to look for work and expose ourselves. in other words, to kind of risk rejection. i think it's good for the soul. i'm not going to talk to this person because they may reject me. that is me. it is okay to be rejected. i try to tell people. for want your book a look you in the eye. i try not to be too proud. >> host: what are you working on right now? >> guest: i have a

contract with tablets. this is our 4th put together. working on a book about the last 16 weeks in the life of michael jackson. so it is sort of a condensed michael jackson. that's my current. >> host: after that? >> guest: after that i'm chasing people. i want to do a book with merle haggard. i want to do a book with the rockstar when he kravitz who i think is great. i have been talking to him. there are all kinds of books i want to do. and then am also working on a novel and then doing a

graphic book with an artist about the history of my relationship to close because i'm kind of a close not. so i'm always working. >> host: writing any songs? >> guest: i am. i have recently written some gospel songs with a good pillow of mine. a couple r&b songs. you know, i almost would rather write songs than anything else. i love it all. i love ghosting, writing songs, this graphic put that of doing, but the idea as a lyricist to sit down and

write with the musician and be in the room when these cords are being created i find the most enjoyable. >> host: david ritz, we appreciate your sitting down with book tv. >> guest: my pleasure. >> host: so sir michael marmot, you have written extensively on the social chairman of health for a long time. i wanted to start by reading a quick quote from the end t