bank. david mare their race who's live next weekend on our "in depth" program talks about his most recent book, once in a great city. then on "after words," darcy olson on the use of medical treatments deemed experimental or not available for terminally ill diseases. we wrap up booktv in prime time with sonya purr knell who profiles clementine churchill, wife of winston churchill, at 11:15 p.m. eastern. that happens tonight on c-span2's booktv. [inaudible conversations]

>> oh, that's much better. good evening, everyone, and what a great crowd. thank you all so much for coming out tonight. i'm lissa muscatine, one of the co-owners of politics and prose bookstore, and we are really delighted to be here at 14th and v and sponsoring this event. i don't know how many of you realize we also have a book operation here in the store as well as the busboys and poets in brookland and tacoma. and that all started about a year ago, the owner of busboys approached us and asked if we would help run his book sales in the restaurants. one of the reasons we were ec t static is because we have such a parallel, synergistic role in our communities with busboys,

and we were very, very grateful for the opportunity to be here, to be able to bring books to many more parts of washington and also events like this one. so i wish andy were here. he was here a little while ago, he had to go off to another event, but this is very much the sort of event that busboys has become known for over the years and we are extremely proud to be a part of. the way this is going to work tonight is that our panel will talk for a bit, and then there will be questions from the audience. youif you have a question, just raise your hand. at the end of the event, all four of our guests are, i'm sure you know, very successful authors. their books are right here. you will have a chance to get their books and get them signed, if you wish, afterwards. so that's the housekeeping. maybe if you have a cell phone on and could turn it off, that would also be a good idea just so it doesn't interrupt the conversation. and i want to just start by thanking april ryan who, really, this is her event.

she came to us, she asked us if we would consider working with her to create an event like this and sponsor, and we were really delighted by the prospect. we made it harder for her, we said would you have to have auts and, of course, in a flash she found great authors and friends of ours at politics & prose who we so treasure in our community. and so, april, thank you for making this possible. she really is the driving force behind. [applause] and i just have to say that, you know, this is partly a shameless plug for her book, which is called "the presidency in black and white." we, of course, hosted her event when it came out last february, i think it was finish. >> yes, yes. >> and it's a tremendous book. she's too modest to say it, so i'm going the say it, it's called "the presidency in black and white," i did say that. it has just won the nonfiction award from the african-american

literary awards show, so congratulationses -- [applause] you know, there's a lot of controversy now about what's classified and what isn't in washington -- [laughter] so i'm going to err on the side of caution and just say i don't want to reveal any state secrets, but stay tuned for a few more headlines possibly pertaining to that book. just keep your eye out for the news in the next few months. and then secondly -- and this is just a rumor -- she's got another one coming out at some point, and it's in progress -- >> progress. >> and we're going to have her back to politics and prose for that one. >> i'll hold you too -- to it. [laughter] >> april will be giving a more detailed introduction of our panelists tonight, but i do have to say just a brief word about each of them. michael eric dyson is possibly our best customer. [laughter] he just rolled out a dollar figure that he thinks he's spent

in the store. i'm not going to hold you to it, but he's got to be up there at the top of best customers. he's a professor, incredibly prolific author, he's written, i don't know, 15 or 16 weeks including -- books, including can you hear me now. so it's great to have him. such a friend of our store, we're so delighted always to be with him. joy ann reid, who we hosted also just a few weeks ago for her new book. i hope you've had a chance to read it. if you haven't, you've got to get it, it's called "fracture." it's one of the smartest books, honestly, about american politics, especially about the evolution of race of the democratic party, fantastic book. thank you, joy ann, so much for being here. what a contribution that book is. of course, we've got it here for you, so come right up afterwards. and lastly but, of course, not least, paul butler who's the author of "let's get free," and he's one of the most respected civil rights attorneys in the country as well as a professor

at georgetown law. we are so delighted also to have you, another friend of our store. so i feel, you know, very, very happy to be in such great company with all of them and with all of you, so they are terrific. but i just want to say a couple more things about april. many of you know she's a very familiar voice on american urban radio, longtime commentator on american politics, been a reporter for more than 30 years and, obviously, in that amount of time she's seen her share of politics and politicians. she's been a white house correspondent for the network since 1997, covered the presidencies of bill clinton, george w. bush and barack obama. and i think that if you read her book, you'll find that it's a compilation of a lot of years of observation and a lot of years of immersion many that world of the -- in that world of the american presidency. and she's learned a lot, for sure. but i think at least from my vantage point what is most important about april is not the

reporting itself, but it's sort of what she does with her reporting. she is one of far too few african-american journalists assigned to the white house beat, but she's been intent on bringing news to communities that are also too often ignored and marginalized by the conventional news media. and over the years she literally, literally has become herself a news outlet, a resource for millions of americans who might otherwise be left in the dark about how events in the news are affecting and shaping their own lives, their families and their communities. so i think we should be giving you a public service award. [applause] [inaudible] journalism at its best and, you know, it's not -- it should be far, be recognized at a far higher level than it often is, but you are making a tremendous contribution. and including doing this here tonight. so thank you so much for being the driving force, and thank all

of you for coming and being here, and thank all of you for coming and being here, we're delighted to have you. >> hank. >> thank you, lissa, i tell you what. i'm floored. i moon, any -- i mean, any author tries to get to this great place called politics and prose, so this is the owner. this is the owner so, please, sport her, and let's thank her. she didn't have to have our books in her store. everyone doesn't get to politics & prose. and not only that -- and it's true, you know that -- >> we only take the very best ones. [laughter] >> and we want to thank her for hosting this and providing books and hosting all of you tonight. and thank you for coming out. we want to let you know there is food and libation. so if you want -- [laughter] if you need a little nosh, a little drink, a little food while we're talking, we encourage you. and we thank busboys and poets as well. let's give them a big round of applause. [applause] well,ing welcome to race in america today, a panel discussion. i'm your moderator, april ryan.

and i want to move on down the line to my great panel. i mean, i'm many awe of these people. and i'm going to give short buy wrotes. i mean -- bios. i mean, you know who they are. michael everything dyson, author of 6, count them, 16 books including can you hear me now and april 4, 1968. let's give him a big round of applause. thank you, michael, for coming. [applause] the great, the great, the great joy ann reid, the author of the new book "fractured." i'm so happy for you. joy ann reid is a national correspondent for msnbc, former managing editor of the reel and author, again, of "fractured." to be honest with you, many people believe, and it's not -- this is an unscientific statement i'm going to make, but i think you're one of the best reporters around. i'm serious, and i thank you for being here.

[applause] and seated at the end, the illustrious author, paul butler, former federal prosecutor and author of "let's get free" and currently a law professor at georgetown university. thank you so much for coming. [applause] now, i want to, i want to start this off with something, and many of us watch the news, we are consumed by the news and current issues, and right now issues of our culture, our time focus around race. and i can't help but last year think about a conversation we had in a car. we were in a car talking about race. and it's a lot. it's more than -- there's a lot underneath the surface that you just don't know, and i hope that this panel brings you a little bit more insight and understanding as to what's really going on. michael said you're scared of the truth. i put my head down, and i had to hold my ears, i couldn't take it

anymore. [laughter] but this is a real die to log. and i want to -- dialogue. i want to start off with w.e.b. dubois wrote that the problem of the 20th century is the problem of the color line. immediately after the election of president barack obama, there were frequent media assertions of a post-racial america. meanwhile, earlier this year on a flight to selma, alabama, for the 50th anniversary of bloody sunday, i asked president obama -- after he completed his eight years in the oval office -- would he consider america post-racial or post-obama? now, listen to what he said to me. he said, quote: i think that there's no doubt that my election was a significant moment in this country's racial history. i say that with all humility. and then later in his answer he went on to say: i wouldn't equate my election with seminal moments like the emancipation proclamation or the passage of the civil rights act of 1964. those were massive changes in

legal status that represented fundamental breaks with america's tragic history. he also said: he were the pillars, the 13th amendment, the 14th amendment, the 15th amendment, the civil rights act of the 1960s. he said those represented the dismantling of formal discrimination in this country, and there's nothing that's going to compare to that. ask with that said, where are we now? are we post-due boys -- duboise? in the next 16 months or so, will we be post-obama or are we post-racial? i want to start with you, joy. [laughter] >> thanks a lot. thanks a lot, april. first of all, i wanted to echo your thanks to politics & prose as well as to busboys and poets as well as to you, april, for bringing us all together. s it is an ohioan to be -- honor to be here with this really great panel, so thank you very much. and thanks a lot more starting with me, really. [laughter] so, you know, i think when you talk about the country being postracial, i think that is a

goal that the country cannot fully share. i think when you think about the united states of america, it is one of the most explicitly race-conscious countries ever put together anywhere. the formation and the foundation of the country was explicitly race conscious. it was consciously placed into our founding documents that to be free, white and male had a meaning for your citizenship, and to not be those things had a meaning for you lack of citizenship and the struggle to bring about the equality of african-americans is foundational to the country. so i think it is, it's interesting that the desire to be postracial, i think it really reflects very different goals and different sort of psychic needs that african-americans and white americans, frankly, have when they think about race in america. i think for a lot of white americans -- and by no means you can't say everyone -- there is a desire for transcendence, to

transcend the racial past, to put it behind us, to put a coda on it, to somehow put a period on the end of that sentence and say we have now come past this point where race matters. but race has mattered in everything. it's been so explicit. and it used to be a consciousness on the part of white americans about race that sort of drove policy, whether it was jim crow policy, whether it was housing policy, whether it was who could live on this block, who could go to this school, it was explicitly race conscious. we come to this place in history where i think a lot of white america wants to get postracial, whereas for african-americans race is something what we're living every day, that we're living when we walk through a store, when a police officer follows us. so african-americans have no desire to transcend race other than to just be fully citizens. and that has never been allowed. so african-americans, i think, have a desire to litigate the issue of race, and i think for a lot of white americans the expectation is to transcend it,

and those are two opposite goals that can never be brought into union, and i think that's part of reason we have so much discord. >> let's go to the former prosecutor and the litigation. we're seeing criminal justice, we're seeing so much right now in the way of the visuals. and many people are seeing the inequity, the inequality in this nation that we have talked about for years, but now you see the visuals. we've talked about the numbers, but when people see the numbers in print, people are like, oh, wow, did you know that? of course we did. we are from the community. the first black president, how does all of that play into this post-obama, postracial, post-duboise and the litigation issue? >> so i'm going to agree with joy and respectfully disagree with dr. duboise. the problem then and now was never the color line. the problem is white supremacy. and white supremacy has not been impacted at all.

i love the president. i have a barack obama action figure on my table. [laughter] whenever i come home and someone's knocked it down, i stand it up -- >> what is the action figure doing? >> i love the president, so i -- [laughter] sometimes -- [inaudible] but when he was elected, i don't think anyone expected that he would reverse 400 years of white supremacy. i do think -- >> meaning slavery. >> slavery, the old jim crow, the new jim crow. i do think people hoped he would make racial justice a significant part of his agenda. and he has not. and because i have so much love and respect for him, it's disappointing. because if he applies his brilliant mind and his amazing

political talents to racial justice as he has other issues like lgbt equality, immigration, trade, i think we could be further along than we are. so if we look at where we are now with black family wealth, when president obama took office, the average was $18,000. that's the average net worth of a black family. for a white family, it's $142,000. black family wealth has actually gone down during the time that the president has been in office. white family wealth has gone up. and if we look at the criminal justice system, you know, if you look at places like ferguson and baltimore, it's something to think that the problem is bad apple cops. that's not really the problem. the problem is criminal justice

is also infused with white supremacy. the problem isn't so much what's illegal, the problem is what's legal, what the police are allowed to do. and so in many ways when we look at ferguson, the system was working the way it's supposed to work. so when we think about reform, that might be a mild way of thinking about the change that this country needs in order to truly establish racial justice. and just really quickly, you mentioned president obama's speech at selma. i think there he understood that, there he talked about the way that the civil rights movement ott '60s -- of the '60s had transformed america, it wasn't about reform, it was about transformation. we need that transformation now. >> thank you so much, professor butler. ms. understanding that -- [applause] understanding that we come from the vantage of research and knowledge and reporting and

sourcing, michael eric dyson, i want to ask you, is it fair to pin a lot of these hopes on this president when it took 400 years to come out of? i mean, it took 200 years to come out of what happened 400 years ago. can we lump all of this on this president? and should we look to the past to see who we are today and how we should go forward now and after he's president? >> well, i want to say it's great to be here with april, the great joy reid and the hag unanimous and -- magnanimous and gifted professor paul butler. look, of course it's not fair to pin all of our hopes on one man, to put all of our eggs in one basket. but it's unavoidable. because we love him so much.

he's our guy. he's tall, terrific, talented with a tall, terrific, talented wife and children, and they are the sparkling image of the projected brilliance of the black family which is an implicit rebuttal to the moynihan report about the pathology of the black family. in a narrow, heterosexist vein, but nonetheless an important one. on the other hand, look at the humility of obama in responding to your question where he says, hey, i wouldn't put my presidency on the level of the 13th, 14th amendment, i'm not going to put it on the level of the civil rights bill. now, most of us be president, we'd be like, yeah, that was the greatest thing in the history of negroes ever, me being president, that's how it goes. so you can see that the man is exquisitely and consciously humble in the most appropriate fashion. and in a refreshing fashion.

if you juxtapose him to people on the other side of the aisle running now who relentlessly remind us of their billions -- i don't want to name any names -- [laughter] then he holds the trump card, so to speak. [laughter] now, as james brown elegantly said house and ever, barack obama is the product of paradock s the purveyor of paradox and pursues a project that, as professor butler said and ms. reid said, is one that is highly ironic and also disappointing to this degree. it is not that we can foist the -- hoist the entire, if you will, gravity and weight of our existence onto obama's slim shoulders, and yet history has done that. history has thrust upon him what martin luther king jr. said, the battering rams of historical

necessity. history, you can't have the goodies without having the burdens. the goodies and the blessings are, you the man. the blessings are you're the first african-american president. the first -- the blessing is is that you as a black man had an ideal that no other black person in the history of this this universe as ever successfully nurtured in his own mind. i will be the head of the most powerful democracy in the history of the world. so that's extraordinary. on the other hand, i think what professor butler is suggesting and ms. reid is also pointing to, we never thought-going to be a postracial -- thought this was going torque -- going to be a postracial society. obama says in the awed dasty of hope that, slow down, don't put the postracial tag there because we ain't there yet. what richard ford has said, a postracist society. because postracial is really post-negro.

postracial means postblack. thought we had been there, done black. thought we had finished it, now that obama's been elected, we're good. we've wiped off hands of blackness, no more responsibility. is he responsible for that? of course not. but what he is responsible for is not in, i think, with great diplomacy understanding that there's not much he could be critical of white america about in this country. because they wasn't going to have it. at a fundraiser or in san francisco, mr. obama, president obama, then-senator obama said, hey, when stuff gets tough, some white folk get guns, are bitter, you turn no their religion, and he got beat down. and he knew then never again to speak ill of white brothers and sisters in america. why? because people are chagrined when even a so-called ostensibly biracial, half-white man makes a comment about white america. that lets us know, no, you are

still perceived as a black man. on the flip side, what president obama has done relentlessly is to chide and deliver tirades against african-american people in ways that have been called out by a number of figures. as unfortunate. so his genius that professor butler talks about, let's not underestimate that. this man has existed in the midst of white supremacy, the belief that some groups are inferior and others are superior. assertions about the legitimacy or lack thereof of black people, it's an institutional mechanism that is self-perpetuating. in light of that, when we look at what white supremacy has attempted to do, or it attempted to unburt obama, to retroactively abort him. to legislate against him in the supreme court, to make certain that obamacare would not succeed and legislatively to pretend that it would not exist, and it

has stood the test of time. so he's been amazing and brilliant against the odds, but he's also reinterpretedded and reasserted some of the most vicious stereotypes about black people that should not be tolerable. and it chagrins me to say that what he is responsible for is his own mouth, his own bully pulpit, his own personal and political capital and the degree to which he has deployed it. why do i know that he's a great man? because lately he has turned course, he has changed his modus vivendi and his modus operandi, he has changed his deployment of rhetoric, of language, and he has used it to defend black people, to elevate black people, and he's used it to point out the vicious persistence of white principle city that unfurled under the banner of a hateful confederate flag. that is the obama that we were promised in 2007 and '8, that is the obama who is finally coming into full gestation, and we hope

that with the birth of that baby before he leaves, it will survive after he leaves office. >> so with that, go ahead, joy. [applause] >> i normally have loathe to ever follow michael eric dyson -- [laughter] it's not a good idea. >> you have to think about all the big words that he used -- [laughter] >> i have a mental thesaurus that's always on to make sure that i got all the words. i love a big word, i do, i really do. [laughter] i do, i'm a nerd. [laughter] and i think one of the points that both professor butt her and professor dyson made -- butler and professor dyson made, it's very important that i don't think we make enough about the this notion of postracialism. the postracial moment in america occurred almost immediately upon the arrival of american enslaved africans. if you look at the history of african people in this country, it took no time at all for

africans, enslaved people to adopt the styles, the customs, the beliefs in democracy and the rights of man, of white americans. immediately after slavery, african-americans attempted to become postracial. go back and look at the photos of african-americans at the time. frederick douglass adopted even the hair style of white america, believed in the ideals of democracy of white america, attempted to run for office and, in fact, did. you had african-americans who bought into the whole idea of american democracy and ran for the united states senate, adopted the dress. they weren't trying to put forward an african aesthetic, they put forward a very american aesthetic right away. and what happened? it was fully bought into by african-americans who wanted to go to school at the schools of white americans, who wanted to get the same education as white americans, who never thought a separatist ideal, it was only

later when it was wholesale rejected. it was the country itself that rejected postracialism. the response to reconstruction in which african, former slaves not only did not exact revenge upon those who had enslaved them, but attempted to buy into their ideals and their social norms down to their dress, down to their style of doing our hair. look at the way we do our hair. the first black millionaire is someone who was able to -- >> [inaudible] >> exactly. help african-american women adopt the hair style of white america. so postracialism is something that african-americans tried. the response was vicious postreconstruction. the end of reconstruction was not just an afterthought, it was violent. it was a vicious rebuke of postracialism. and i think because we tend to think of black people as the people who are racial, we tend to forget that this country was highly racialized and the attempt at postracialism was

rejected. ben tillman said we have to kill them to prevent them from thinking they can marry our daughters, move near our homes and be our equal. .. lynn was -- lincoln was successful. woodrow will son, confronted with the question of what to do with the lynching of black

soldiers who were coming home and walking around proud as if they were white men, trying to be post racial. we have this post racialism that is a failing of black america to, quote, get over slavery. the country wouldn't allow black people to get 'pennsylvania it when they wanted nothing more. they had to go to court, the supreme court, march, risk death, risk fire bombings of churches, lynching and murder to be post racial so the whole idea of post racialammism is asking the wrong people to do it. [applause] >> but to ask joy reid to continue that thought, every president, you were saying, until obama, had to dress the issue of race.

so can one president be exempt from that? >> exactly. that's the request. whether or not if eisenhower was norseed to confront the idea of lynching and he didn't want to -- kennedy wanted to do tax cuts. his big thing he wanted to do was a massive tax cut. he needed the southerners to do it. he didn't want to do civil rights but was forced to do it. the murder of medgar evers makes him over to confront it. johnson had could confront the race question. >> he didn't want to do it. >> absolutely, nixon didn't want to feel with busing, he had to. he had to deal with housing desegregation. it's strange and unfire say the first black president is the only guy who gets a pass. >> not only that, not only gets

a pass, but -- i'm sorry, i'm sorry. but here's the point. if you say you don't want to be exempt from the normal characterizations of other presidents because of your color, which i think is fair -- then you can't be exempt from the responsibility that every other president has had, which is to address the issue of race. are we saying the following: the ex-is step shall terror, personal -- existential -- this president is the first person to embody in his own existence, his very body, the torn mandate and the, if you will, the torn agenda of american democracy that he lives every day, and he says, i'm biracial. i have resolved conflict friday

in nation in my body. if that's the case how can we expect the first african-american president to be exempt from dealing with the most serious issue that has driven this notion, attorney it apart, that has been characterized as america's original sin, but his own words, how can we not expect him to deliver that high intelligence and that political power to that issue. that's part of the disappointment that we have experienced as citizens. >> you led me to the next question and i'll throw this to professor butler. the problems at the time, africans were enslaved. now, where do we go from sneer we can talk until the cows come home, talk forever about the problem. where you go from here, being a former prosecutor, professor, particularly as the civil rights

movement was the most successful movement in the nation. the women's rights groups have taken the blueprint. lgbt community has taken the blueprint. those who are pro immigration have taken the blueprint. african-american communities particularly dropped the blueprint, and then you had pope francis come into this nation, he dropped the mic at the white house, and what did he say? we have defaulted on our promissory note, and when he said that everybody just -- the whole south jan, ooh. that was one of the strongest statements in that "i have a dream" speech. what is the solution? we know there are problems. we see them in the news. let's talk about the solution. >> in order to talk about the solution you have to correctly flame problem. the day after president obama was elected the first time, i go

into my local starbucks, we high-five my barista, a young african-american woman, the way that we were always giving each other fist bumps that day. she says, you know what? there's this guy outside, african-american guy, who camps outside the starbucks and she said that every day she'd given him a little bit of change because she felt sorry for him. she said that morning, when she got to work and she saw him lying there with his hand out, she said to him, barack obama is president. get a job. and the concern is -- again, that's not understanding what the problem is. and the concern is that in some ways the president has played into that narrative. so, when he goes to moorehouse -- morehouse college and says nobody carolina how

much discrimination you suffer, it's impossible for hillary to say, get over that glass ceiling, lean in. so the president is -- >> he felt he could say that when he went to morehouse. >> with that familiarity comes the responsibility as well. if you have the privilege to talk about folks in a certain way, you have the obligation to lift them up, and i don't see that lifting up. i think in a chart, perhaps, it is there, but we haven't seen it in his actions to the extent that -- he doesn't want to focus on race. what he says about african-american unemployment, he says i can't pass a black jobs bill, but if i fix the economy, then african-americans will benefit, rising tide lifts all boats. but if you don't have a boat in the first miss, which

african-americans don't, you don't rise up. so, again, the problem is not african-american cultural or behavior. the reason that our net worth -- that white people have a net worth of eight times what we have is not because we don't work for it. it's not because we don't -- when we're unemployed, look for jobs. it's because discrimination is alive and well. if you're a black person and you send out a resume and you have what is considered a black-sounding name, you don't get the callback that you get with the same qualifications if you have a white-sounding name. so we have to confront. not color lines, we have to confront white supremacy. that's the problem. and so when we think about ways to address that, there are some reforms we can make with regard to the criminal justice system. where african-americans are -- especially young african-american men are basically hunted down by the

police, which is why one in three black men will get arrest for misdemeanors, the things police are looking for to arrest you for so we can declinize some misdemeanors. freddie gray was stopped by the cops for running away. they didn't know what he was doing. why he was running away. and ferguson, michael brown was walking in the street. eric garner for selling a loosie cigarette. so decriminalizing conduct, not because we approve of the conduct but we don't trust the police so we have to reduce contact between the police and citizens. it's shame we have to say that in a democracy, with an african-american president, but that shows you how powerful -- i hate to keep saying it because a lot of folks of suffering from racial fatigue. but that shows you how powerful

a force white supremacy is. >> very interesting dialogue. we're going to start opening this up for questions and if you have a question, abby will take the mic and walk around. please raise your hand. we have a question -- don't be shy. we have time and we've got four authors here who are willing to answer your questions. yes, joy, go ahead. >> i was going to make the point, one thing you have to understand about barack obama, what makes him an intriguing figure, we are in a lot of ways who we are raised to be, and barack obama occupies this really unique space in american racial and ethnic life in that he is a man who is african-american-ness comes from african-ness and i shared that with him, having an african parent whose traditions not

through the lineage of enslavement. so you have a different twist on the african-american experience. different. and then he has the people who actually raised him. i think part of the reason that barack obama is such an effective politician and was the person best situated to be the first black president of the united states, is that he comes at the issue of race without any of the suspects that being african-american naturally gives you when you at the issue of race in america. he was raised in white america and raised with the attitudal mindset of midwestern white america and putting your shoulder to the wheel and personal responsibility and all these ethics he was raised with by his grandparents forms what he thinks. i don't think he is pretending to think that if african-american fathers turn off the tv and make their kid goes to bed early -- i don't think he is making that up.

that's what he was raised to believe. so he understands in an intuitive way that a lot of white america is exhausted by the notion of race, and is exhausted by the notion of constantly re-addressing the racial dynamic that proceeds from slavery. you look at his race speech in philadelphia, he voices almost perfectly both the feelings of african-americans because he has lived in a black body and has experienced being black in america, but also the attitudal mind set of white america that says my parents came from ire 1920, i don't want to hear about it. and the shift that took place post lyndon johnson where a lot of particularly in the suburbs and the declining industrial base of the country, a lot of the white working class said, wait a minute, we want to deal with the issues of economic decline, not the issues of race. we don't want to have to deal with busing, black kids into our

schools etch want to deal with getting ourselves better jobs. he understands the biracial dynamic in a unique way. some people say he ills the least angry black man in america so he could be the first black president. >> if you're a black woman or a black man or black child in america, if you're not angry, something is wrong. you're not understanding -- you're not really in touch with reality. i thought that the race speech in philadelphia was eloquent. remember the context. he was in trouble because of last preacher, who made some remarks about race that a lot of white people didn't appreciate. the point of the speech was to say, you know what? black people can actually be racist. and by the way, white people can be racist, too, and that was treated with a -- the response

of a lot of white people was, this is brilliant. i didn't learn anything from that speech. the even-handedness when it comes to race but the problem is not an even-handed problem. the problem is not, as you said, african-american. it's white people. when we look at all of the way -- it's white supremacy. again, when joy says it's not black people who need to change. we're not responsible for the problems. there are things we can do differently? are there -- if young men pulled their pants up, that might look better, but it's not going to end white supremacy. it's not going to end the fact that unemployment for african-americans is twice that of white. so it's really important. it's scary when you talk about the problem of white supremacy because that means things like body cams for police aren't going to address that. if we have this conversation and

get real about the problem, then we can start to get real about the solutions. >> really good to hear this conversation because we need to know what's going on and what people are saying out there. and i'm going to let you answer this gentleman's question. >> thank you. i hope i can remember it. do you all know who the -- [inaudible] is? >> yes. in the '80s. >> 1988. [inaudible] -- the first black person and the first woman to be on the ballot for president. not jesse jackson. he never ran for president. he ran for the democratic nomination. 20 years -- i worked on the campaign. 20 years later, 2008, there was another black woman on the ballot for president. you know who that is? nancy mckinney.

who is on the ballot the same year barack obama was, under the green party. i didn't vote for obama in 2008. the question is, we have had two instances where there are black people who are not democrats who are on the -- [inaudible] -- they have been summarily ignored by not only the black press, the regular press, but most black people. how can black people establish any sense of black independence when most black people and most black organizations voluntarily project themselves -- subject themselves to involuntary servitude to the tell creak party? -- the democratic party? >> i will just say, as somebody who is a voter, most presidential elections have about 25 people on them, that's

a lot of people running for president. it's not just the democrat and the republican. our system is set up as two-party system and it's almost impossible for a third-party candidate to get any traction, which is why when you do have a ross perot, it's actually a huge knock, or john anderson. it's rare and difficult because it's expensive to get on the ballot in 50 states. in the that the media is including only the black candidates that are not polling in the national averages that more than one percent. i it's all of the 24 candidates that are also running for president that no one pays that much attention to. you have to realize that -- this is something i definitely have learned in the research for writing my book, is that the black vote is a very pragmatic vote. doesn't spend much time looking for psychic redress feel-good candidacies, which is why a lot of really -- people who probably otherwise would be quite worthy

and very respected by black america, get absolutely no traction among black voters. >> joy, let's talk about how in the '60s the black vote moved from the republican side to the democratic side because of civil right. >> all very pragmatic. look at shirley chisolm. we revered. when she ran the entire black establishment summarily reject her candidacy because she was thwarting their plan to put forward a black candidate of their choosing, black men, and because she was running as more a woman's candidate than a black candidate, she was rejected by black america. when jesse jackson runs he gets no help from the black establish: when its becomes a phenomenon black leaderses say we should sign on. when barack obama ran for senate and president, he didn't the black establish. on his side. it was with hillary clinton. the black -- until he won in iowa and proved he could win in a very white state.

the black vote is pragmatic. ant going to use a devineing rod and look for the blackest candidate. it's going to look for the candidate who can win because there are real resources at stake for the ballot -- black community. >> black people want to win. just because you're black and articulating a particular viewpoint doesn't mean you have sundayed 0 out the territory to occupy to get on the ballot to win enough votes to be compelling to force people to take your seriously. we no there are structural impediments and obstacles that prevent the possibility of those people but at the same time, some of the narrow perspectives that have been articulated by even interesting black people means that pragmatic is one. winning is another. black folk are tired of symbolic runs. that's why even with the great

reverend al sharpton, black people are not this ties. barack obama had to look for the black vote. he had to go to howard university and tell people what he was going to do about the criminal justice system. he had to remind us about what he did about racial profiling in the senate. this is a guy who articulated his blackness, and let me say this. let me say this. that the difference, april ryan, and what professor butler said, when you have the ability -- of course we know barack obama can say some stuff cant no other candidate say. pull your britches up, stop eat chicken. turn the tv off. he ain't the first black person to say that stuff. go to church every sunday. black people hearing that every -- go to the temple to the mosque, listen to farrakhan, my

god. you're going to hear the same conservative moral value that we now think is being invented. but here's the difference. in that famous speech on father's day, barack obama quoted chris rock. quote all of chris rock. he said black people always want to be congratulated for everything they do. i take care of my kid. but he doesn't quote the part where chris rock says white supremacy reduced men to a cog in the machinery of american capitalism. he ain't got that part down. so if you going to talk about -- as professor butler says you're going to have an insight with your own people, and -- look at the people who in public reprimand their people. can you imagine the first jewish president saying to jews, we got to stop all this madness and --

that's going on in the world and -- no. then you make people vulnerable to the already-existing, preexisting condition of antisemitism. but barack obama has, i think, played fast and loose with the truth of black existence by reinforcing stereotypes. not only would be not go to barnard, we he did not say to those women stop belly aching idea gender oppression and the glass ceiling. he said i identify with you and i know it sounds like i'm pandering but i think the future is involved with women. can we get some of that? can we simply -- let me end by saying this. we know that barack obama cannot be critical for the most part of dominant white culture. stop acting like we -- we know he can't. here's my point. since you know you can't be critical of white folk, don't be critical of black folk because that looks like the only people

with the problem are the black people and not the white folk, too. if you can't be equal with all your kids, don't say nothing to none of them. that's what i'm saying. >> thank you, reverend. next question. >> i agree with the point you made about -- trying to combat white supremacy. i think that is the more important issue and there's a book called -- [inaudible] -- talks about how it's the role of the -- went out -- okay -- the role of the -- the role of the oppressed to liberate themselves in order to push forward to a better -- as you say with obama kind of being really light in his touch, to problems of black

people and black matters when we're talking about issues and you can't work within the system in order to improve the system because the system is working on white supremacy and you can't be outright against it because the white individuals who do have -- [inaudible] -- in order to move us on the right path towards racial equality and a better understanding of race, and opposite we get on that path, what can we do ourselves to bring ourselves to the forefront that -- to put us on an equal level -- [inaudible]. >> i know april correctly wants us to be forward-looking and

solutions-oriented, and i agree with that. so, i am inspired by this moment, especially by the activism of a lot of young people, black, white, asia, and latino, and the "black lives matter" movement, because i think they're pointing us towards the way. we don't know where but they've been incredibly savvy at using images and media and social -- new technology in order to again frame the problem. i think in a more constructive way. so, when we think about this last year, where we have gone from ferguson to detroit to baltimore, it's not because there are images, the cell phone video is new. we have had images of police beating up and killing black people since way before rodney king. that's not new. what is new is the young activists have been able to use these images to focus attention,

to start a conversation. they're not perfect. the conversation between hillary and the young black activists i think hillary won that. you need a game plan. that's a conversation we need to have. what is the game plan? i think that's a process. what we're confronting, again, is powerful. i think we have -- just as we made this country during the abolition, we went from slaves to -- just as we went from -- we had a successful civil rights movement in terms of stigmatizing racism, making it go undercover, again, we can make progress on this area now. we're not going -- it's not going to lead to a utopia, and i'm not coming up with specifics because i'm trusting this process to help us understand

where we need to go. >> also have an issue in the country where people need to a place where we're comfortable listening to people on the other side of the racial divide and not ascribing necessarily our own sort of -- to their motivation. a lot of the reason we have a donald trump become somebody that is very popular is because i think that for a lot of white americans, there's this sense that the language of race has become all about political correctness and all about limiting what they're able to comfortably say in public, and that they don't even necessarily feel comfortable confronting issues of race across the racial divide for fear of, as you said, the idea of racism has become almost the worst thing you can say to someone. so there's a lot of raw feelings that are attached to that notion. i think we have become unable to and i don't think the country

has been truly integrated. look at groups of friend, they're still very divided by race. we're still very segue degree gaited. the school system is as segregated as ever and becoming more so. and you have the public school system now which is becoming the majority -- the place where minority kids are educated. go to a city like selma, two percent of wild childrenner in public schools. the vast majority have been pulled out of the public schools and sent to private schools. so we're let rally so segregate fled our lives that people don't feel comfortable having basic conversations. we need to become more comfort able, which is sometimes having uncomfortable conversation with people across the racial divide saying i disagree with you. let me explain my point of view without feeling like you're in combat. we the only truly multiracial democracy, and other countries are not exactly winning at this go to europe and look how they failed to integrate north africans into trespass are great

britton where people canner in become french no matter how many generations they've been there. they're still considered moroccan. there's a possibility here but starts with people being brave and quietly -- dr. dyson said -- i have a sneak preview what he is writing -- asia -- eric holder, that whet he meant when he said we're nation of 'cowards. they're afraid of how they will be perceived, and i think we need to develop more ability to just talk. >> you want to talk about it, but how can you talk about race that is so passionate and so real for so many people without having the emotion? how can you talk about race taking the emotion out of it? >> well, i think president obama should get credit to this agreeing degree. he understood how difficult it would be -- he knew they racial

fatigue of white america. he tells that tremendous story that one of his colleagues making a powerful point but said the white guy leans our and says, the problem is, barack, after the i missen to this state senator, feel whiter, by which obama took a bit of credit by suggesting that his more equitable and morally equivalent race speech did not make white people feel guilty. there's something to be said about that is extremely important. the problem is the following. when you're a minority in this country, racially, sexually, even religiously, but think mostly in terms of color at this point as we're speaking you got to hear stuff on tv and radio that's outrageous before you brush your teeth in the morning. negroes have discovered to be as path lodge cal now as they were 50 years ago, and then do your

listerine. then the next report is how messed up your culture is and your addicted to violence and women don't take care of their kids and on and on and on, relentless, proselytizing and prop begannize dash propagandizing in the name of a supposedly neutral news media -- that black people are the problem. when many white americans hear things that are negative about them, they shut down. black folks just got to stay. where we going to go? we in the country, nowhere to go. we have to church. we hear stuff we don't like. but we are conditioned, even when white folks say, just criminally insane or ignorant things about african-american people, we are conditioned to stay and listen, even if we disagree. many white -- one of the forms of white privilege is exit. one of the forms of white privilege is denial.

one of the terms of white privilege is pretend what you said is not true and go my neighborhood that does not contain the contaminants that has to be dealt with. so when we talk about -- this is the problem with barack obama making moral equivalency between what white folk got to do and black folk got to do. it's incumbent not to fall back on jargon. lefts look at language that can re-describe the problems we confront together and to ask white brothers and sisters to take some responsibility. if barack obama in the last 16 mocks, whatever he has left could say to white america, you can't say i haven't been fair. i've been on negroes, telling them what they have to be responsible for. i want white folks to step up to and take responsibility. he has done that in part, where? at that remarkable press conference with the japanese premiere when he says about freddie gray, when a walmart burns up, then we get all mad about it. then we'll say what happened and

then we'll pledge we have commitments to the relief of that suffering and good back to business as usual. and if you want an equal society, you can't do it. that's as close also he got saying white america, stop beating up on black people. why do you think obama kept repeating -- black people ain't making it up. white america thinks black people are racially diluted and that we're just making up stuff. now that the cameras prove it, you shoot a black man named walter scott in south carolina and then plant evidence. if that happened one time on tape it's happened a thousand times off tape. so my point is that barack obama i think if he is going to be serious in using the bully pulpit can encourage white americans to speak more honestly and openly about the issue of race, and my own class -- yesterday we're studying -- my class is black death, from slavery to michael brown, and yelled we read a book called, they left marks on us, about

testimonies of racial violence from emancipation to before world war i, and i have students present two white students. now, the one white student says -- this is not what i wanted. he says in my presentation i must admit to you, professor, it made me ashamed to be white itch don't want to make my students ashamed to be white but i want them to be ashamed of some of the things done in the name of the whiteness adescribed to them and i want them to grapple with the historical impediments towards the flourishing of african-american people in a democratic nation, and when we take that kind of responsibility, then we empathize with the other. fanny lieu him a hainer said the problem with the white folk and black folk is they put us behind. the. black survival was depended upon knowing how white folk acted. we know how they think, react, what they up against, how they -- to placate them and smile and behind them going, that's going on? on the other hand, she said,

white folk don't know anything about our culture, and as a result of that, that ignorance has been lethal. if the president could invite us to have that kind of conversation, his legacy would be -- [inaudible] >> my guess is my panel is willing to stay -- >> we got five people. let me ask you this. if we were to get the questions, each one going around and getting the question, write them down, and ask them, i think we can do it. we can do it, panel, can't we? >> we can. >> yes, we can. yes, we can. >> [inaudible] >> trust me, it's going to be great. >> thank you for comments. i want to say that 20 years ago, myself -- [inaudible] -- i was a

sophomore and -- [inaudible] now i'm a mother and i just want to know, watching the news every day, seeing young boys killed, black men killed, breaks my heart in a different way as a mothers, what do you say to the next generation to our black boys growing up in this society? >> thank you. next question. >> thank you. i just wanted to propose the question that we're talking about legacy now for obama, post obama, it's been asserted the winners write history, we're hearing from the professor about white supremacy, which i clearly

ascribe to, i'm wondering if it is a fullness of time will the white establishment write history in ways large and small diminish the contributions of obama and it's something that frightens me because 50 years from now when the judgment is really sort of in, when the first judgment, that the white establishment will underestimate or undervalue the contributions he made, and i think that has profound implications for building on the -- >> thank you so much. next question. >> real fast question. need to give whites -- more than just to talk about race, but

they got to stop committing racist acts. give. the an assignment to be courageous. become brave. to call racism when they see it. >> thank you so much. we got a question over here. >> i'm curious how the panel think about the ceo trying to start the conversation -- >> next question. >> we're right here in 655,000 people disenfranchise the nation's capital and president obama, six years to comment on d.c. statehood. do you think that has anything to do with the fact that in d.c. i believe is still over 50% black and -- >> question over here. >> excuse me. [inaudible] >> the greatest weapon is the mind of the oppressed and the -- [inaudible] >> thank you.

>> i'm curious to know from the panelists about the foreign policy dimension of the racial issue in the united states. >> okay. i want to ask a question about black economic power. what is the state of black economic power. >> how long are we to continue to discuss equality with whites? how long are we going to -- [inaudible] -- measure ourselves against and if we get to a point where we stop measuring ourselves against them, can we finally elevate ourselves for our own independence and -- [inaudible] -- >> next question. >> thank you. politics and prose. what are two things, concrete things that the everyday white person in this room can do to

combat white supremacy and what are two things that the everyday black person can do to -- >> yes, ma'am. >> do you think -- a question for -- do you think that biracial people have a better chance -- [inaudible] -- >> i have another question. >> cases like the michael brown case, what would you think judicial system could have done better in handling it? >> all right. we have -- one more. you did have your hand up. i apologize. abby. right here. stand up. i want you to get ready to answer the questions you can answer. yes, ma'am, question.

>> [inaudible] economic component of this is absolutely different than the -- [inaudible] -- socioeconomically or economically, blacks have been the backbone of this country since we were brought here. so i'm curious how socioeconomically we're expected, as compared with middle america, because i perceive a lot of what is being discussed right now as more [inaudible] -- than middle white america. >> when you talk about the country was built on the black of african-americans, they're calling slaves immigrants now and workers. workers, immigrants. and i'm going to say this, and i -- you won't hear my personal opinion on this. you will hear my personal

opinion. >> i'm right here. >> i have a problem when i hear every day i'm questioning the presidents and principles in the administration and they say we're a nation of immigrants, i'm like immigrants and slaves. i'm just -- native americans, exactly. you're right. i have said that, too. exactly. but you're exactly right. so we have to remember the whole -- the totality of who is here. the totality. and i'm going to let my elective author on the panel who i think so much for coming. give. the a big round of applause. >> i'm -- i'll peek about the criminal justice system. what should have happened in michael brown's case in ferguson. so, there are encouraging developments with regard to things that can make a difference. so things like the police having body cams.

that will make a difference. the fact that some response of the protests in ferguson, the state used military gear, surplus, from the pentagon, to use on american citizens. that program has been changed in part because of to president obama. they're encouraging developments. but when you look at what the ferguson report is saying, always some of the problems the ferguson police arrested a guy named michael for giving false information because he told them his name was mike. a woman called the police to report that she was being beat up by her boyfriend when the cops got there, the boyfriend was gone. the police looked around and said, looks like he lived here. does he? and she said, yes. they said you're under arrest because he is not listed on the occupancy permit. ferguson police were using african-american citizens as a slush fund, an atm.

the problem is that is all legal. there's nothing unconstitutional or legal about that. and so, again, the question is, if it's true, as a lot of us think, that white supremacy is endemic in our country, that our -- we were built on exploiting african-american people, we have to think about what racial justice would do too our identity as a nation. we have to have conversations. i don't know the answer. conversations about whether the free market or capitalism are consistent with a vision of racial justice. and real quickly, for the woman who asked, what should you tell black boys, say to black blows. one thing you should say is don't forget about black girlsment black girls are not doing any better than boys. so they have issues in the criminal justice system just like boys do but also have

issues way outside the criminal justice system. if you're looking -- i told you about the average net worth of a black family. the average net worth of an unmarried black woman is $100. $100. >> quickly. will the white establishment diminish the contributions of barack obama. it will be difficult if you know how the stories operate. the metrics for a successful presidency two term terms, which is a small none of them. the idea of passing healthcare reform, chase 100 year project of the democratic party. the end over inosama bin laden and the save overing the auto industry it will be dike to keep him out over the top ten and being the first african-american president, that will drive the right crazy but will be lard to diminish him in history in terms of what can be done to change the other overall questions, want to bring back the responsibility of my profession of, of the news media.

for too long we operated with certain notions that are wrong weapon tend to be almost open and too open recipients of information from the state, and the state does include in the police. when we're told a man was shot after an altercation with a police officer in which he tried to take his taser, we shouldn't just buy into that, only to be embarrassed to find out he is wallster scott and what shot dead running away and the taser was dropped. we need to not give the benefit of the doubt also to the state. that's part of the problem. not white america, one thing we can do -- one thing barack obama can do, stop post cardizing the idea of civil rights. civil rights and the fight for racial justice is not something that happened in the '60s. it's an ongoing and ever-present struggle and for african-americans it's not a thing in the past they're bringing up. it happened this morning. so if we can start to stop thinking about its as this thing from the past and start

empathizing with our fellow citizens who can't walk across the street without being afraid, who can't sinned their kid to the corner store without being afraid, not of some local person robbing them but of the police. these serious and undermining condition for our society. if you have a substantial number of citizens afraid of the police. and lastly on issues of statehood,est, had to do with the fact the majority black community, congress has a great interest in keeping it from being independent because the political self-interest is to diminish the number of people who can vote against you and you don't want to lose your job. we have to many disincentives to equality and americans could be more ever-present citizens and think outside your own box. understand that when people are talking about race, they aren't bringing up some historical fact from 1 years ago. they're bringing up what is happening to their children now. telling their sons tonight to be careful of the police. we get afraid when a police car

pulls um because the instances of police killing are never, ever, ever, followed by prosecution, and lastly, vote for laws and prosecutors who will actual he hold bad cops to account. i've been a police officer -- friends don't walt those guys in there either because they threaten them, too. they can't tell on bad cops because they're afraid they won't get backed up at a robbery and their lives would would be in jane jerry. we need have prosecutors who have the courage to take cases to trial, and it was clear -- allowed the officer to investigate himself and then showed no interest in even giving the appearance of caring about, even considering prosecution, those people are elected officials. you do still have the right to vote however the supreme court is trying to snatch back the voting rights act, use what is left of it, honey, and vote as much as you can in every election. >> great, great points bit both speakers. black boys, i mean, love them.

as a protection against the inevitable and unavoidable assault bon their being. 've them so thoroughly they'll love the hell out of. thes and we'll squeeze the resistance to their greatness out of them. one of the great marks of what it means to be black in this country, under the spell of a certain belief that we are inferior, is the belief that we should snuff out genius in black talent, and we think that we have to be competitive against it as opposed to collaborating with it. that's one of the most vicious consequences of what professor butler has spoken not terms of white supremacy, and teach them to love and respect women and treat them well in terms of obama, joy hit it. the dude saved the automobile industry the first year in. he gave the american recovery act. he also gave us obamacare. and then he saved the economy. i know a lot of people were

pissed. what about he -- wall street, main street. if the first black president comes in and the headline reads, obama allows the banks to fail and the economy has gone to hell, in a much more after that -- ain't much more after that going to be written about that brother. so he was in a difficult position and he did what he had to do. i think it will be seen as the black reagan. i think as time goes on, barack obama will be season as one of the great presidents, top ten, maybe even top seven, within the history of the country, and being the first african-american will give him even more icing. a couple more thing. starbucks ceo, beautiful. i love what he did. very beautiful what he was trying to do and trying to engage people to think serious live about race. take your coffee and deal with white supremacy at the same time. a beautiful kind of thing. in terms of the young baby asking the question about biracial, most brilliant question asked. i biracialallism an advantage.

to some people yes. if you live in a cull treasure that privileges the white side of a white-black diead, inevitably people think you have good hair, fairer skin, you more proximate mate the european ideal what it means to be beautiful. that's not the person thought him or herself who happens to be biracial. that's the sickness and pathology of a country who only privileges one form of beauty, being dark in the park like bark is a beautiful thing as well, and i think we should celebrate that as well. two more things -- i just made it up. so for me, -- but, but, some biracial people like barack obama had to work harder because they didn't have black privilege. a lot of black people are born with black privilege. when obama talked in his first book about the fact the ride to say have you read mall only x. he say i live it every day.

will-biracial people don't have the advantage of black racial privilege comparatively speak ago they have to learn their way. when i have students that are not african-american in my class and i say you can't come in here and be block, know black. there's no assumption. there's no kind of osmosis by which you can absorb knowledge you. got to read the damn book like everybody else. now, it's extremely important to do so because when you do that, you're able too perpetuate a legacy of fighting against white supremacy because one of the most vicious things white supremacy has done is to make black people believe they don't have to study their own culture. two more things. for me in terms of the middle class versus middle america -- versus urban america, that's a great point. randy kennedy from harvard university has a story about -- just because die son has a suit on -- i'm a preacher. and i was raised at a preacher

and understand this is a uniform of war, and i'm in war against vicious conceptions of what blackness is. i'm challenging respectability, i'm saying that every negro alive is a star. sorry, i had to get you. i'm saying that black people must understand that even people who are denied and seen as less than are just as important as those who are seen more than, and i'll tell you what the consequence of respectability of politics is, a big bowl of jello, pudding pops, the man who promoted it now deals with the horrible consequences of his amend activity. that is the ultimate logic of respectability politics in america and urban america should not be privileged above all others. d.c. statehood might bev chocolate city but it's awful

vanilla now and gentrification us real and powerful. i'm not saying we should invite everybody in but james baldwin in the 1960s, kenneth clark, said urban renewal meant negro removal, and until we grapple with that concept, we won't see how black people are systematically being drained from the urban spaces, and then i'll end by saying this, i love barack obama, i love what he represents, i love the beauty of his family, love the integrity of his voice. i disagree about him -- with him on some things but i think if we love him seriously, we must call him to account as he is asked when barack obama was running for president, wolf blitzer asked him, what would dr. king say to you? and what would he recommend? he said dr. king wouldn't praise any of us. he would hold us accountable according to the principles of democracy and the struggle of our people, and as a result of that, he said change doesn't

happen from the top down but from the bottom up. how we going to be mad as black people when we hold barack obama accountable, we know that the cracker -- i'm talking be the far right inning. the vicious right wing that it racist. that's even more reason for him to stand up and love us in public and say it's time. i tell you when it happens. at the funeral for reverend clemente pinckney, we didn't hear no pull your bootstraps up, didn't hear, lift yourself up by your boot straps, we heard unadulterated black love and that's the most beautiful thing a black president can do. reinforce the value of al black lives. if all black lives matter no black lives matter. >> all we needed was a text and opening the door to the church.

>> collection is coming. we have books to sell. i'm very thankful for this very exclusive and civil dialogue that we had here. inclusive and civil dialogue on a discussion that is very -- that some people believe is divisive but it's not. you can talk about it. civilly with people who have written about it. i want tone courage you, first of all, did you enjoy the conversation? [applause] >> did you enjoy the conversation? [applause] >> i want to thank my friend, reverend johnson, hallelujah, anytime. michael dyson, and he has his book for sale. i want you to show him your love by buying his book. what he is talking about here are in those books. i want to thank joy-ann reid, the latest author with the book "fractured." she's a great reporter, telling

you the history of the democratic party when it comes to race. please support her. also, the illustrious former prosecutor and professor, yes, paul butler. he knows what he is talking about. support him and his book, and of course i have a book as well. thank you so much. we want to thank bus buoys and poets and the best book store ever. you are blessed to have this book store. politics and prose. go home with it on your tongue, and we want to think c-span, on booktv. thank you all so much. applause applause [applause] >> we're selling books -- >> if you want a book, we're going to move out to the book store lobby and have books for sale out there and our panelists will stay and sign.

[inaudible conversations] booktv, 1998, all the top nonfiction authors and books all variable at booktv.org. >> here's a look at some authors

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