the policy but not the soldier. that's very important. >> host: for the last three hours we have been talking with author and journalist, david marinus. >> c-span, created by americans cable television companies and brought to is a public service by your cable or satellite provider. >> host: michelle, and your new book sold out, what happened in disney. >> guest: disney workers were summoned into this meeting, a lot had just got off of a project where they forms with excellent and a lot of them assumed they were going to be rewarded somehow. it was a horse story that no hollywood writers could conjure up. in this case, the reality was so much worse than anything they could have imagined. they were informed that they

were going to be laid off, but even worse and this is something that has been repeated over and over again in american companies over the last couple of decades, it's like the dirty little open secret of the information technology industry. they were told that they were going to be forced to train their cheap foreign replacements from india as a condition for receiving any type of severance pay. this is not some type of outcome of our current immigration and entrance policy, it is actually built into the law that created the h1 b specialty worker program. we blow the lid off, my co-author and i and our new book, i think we have been told and it has already been written in a computerworld book review that the timing of the book is very fertility. in some ways providential.

at a time drain an election cycle when these things are coming to the forefront and where there is a growing awareness of this practice. >> .. >> guest: the department of labor is require today approve all of these applications as long as the form is filled out correctly. when that's approved, they

submit the actual visa petition to u.s. cis, and if they approve it, then they go to the state department to get the actual visa. >> host: and how many workers are coming into the united states, and where are they going? >> guest: they're coming -- there are about 120-130,000 are coming a year. >> host: i thought this was capped at about 65,000. >> yeah. well, see, that's a little -- they don't count all the visas in that cap. there's a base cap of 65,000. there's an additional cap of 40,000 for u.s. graduates and unlimited for people going to academia and research. and the reason why they say, do it that way is because you can say, oh, we've been capped for all these years. well, in reality the number of visas has more than doubled since the 1990s. >> host: in your book, michelle malkin, you write: the manufacturing of a crisis, there is no s.t.e.m. shortage. we repeat, there is no s.t.e.m.

shortage. s.t.e.m., of course, being science, technology, engineering and math. >> guest: this is one of the keystone issues of the entire debate over the last 25 years. this month, november, actually marks the 25th anniversary of the creation of the h-1b program. and all along there's been this underlying premise on the part of both big business and big government cheerleaders for the program that we need to bring in these, we need to have this huge pipeline, and it needs to be increased, and in some cases, many of these political crapweasels as i call them, that's what the subtitle is of the book, "the bipartisan beltway crapweasels in washington" who cut all the back room deals to do things like what john said, to have the unlimited number of people coming in under the h-1b program who were hired by academic

institutions, research institutions. and it all, it rests on this presumption that there are not enough american high-skilled workers doing this job. and we trace the history of a lot of the advocacy born inside the government bowels to bolster this claim that there were not enough native-born and legal permanent residents already here to fill these jobs. and it's not true, and the fact is that outside of sort of the d.c. front group, front groups of lobbyists, this constellation of lobbyists and special interests that always masquerade by these patriotic names. we have a chapter in the book called "legion of doom" where we basically catalog where these people are coming from, where the money is coming from, and we highlight a lot of the shoddy advocacy research they're doing.

but when you look at independent academics, people who don't have a vested interest, people who are nonpartisan, it's clear from all the economic evidence just simply looking at wages in this country in these particular sectors that there is no shortage. and, in fact, we've had a lot of data come in over the last couple of years that indicates that you have got millions, 11 out of some 15 million americans who have these so-called s.t.e.m. diplomas who aren't able to find work because they're undercut and underpriced by these h-1b visa a holders. >> host: the numbers are own the screen -- are up on the screen if you'd like to participate in our conversation with can -- with the co-authors of "sold out." michelle malkin, my guess is crapweasels was something you put in the title of this book.

[laughter] what is a crapweasel? >> guest: look, it represents this creature in washington, elected official who says one thing to get elected and then turns around and not just does another thing, but completely betrays the base of voters who sent them there in the first place. and, well, that pretty much covers 99.99% of washington, doesn't it? [laughter] >> guest: exposed how beltway crapweasels cooked up the gang of eight's comprehensive immigration reform. everyone in washington pretends to agree america's immigration system is broken and needs to be fixed. john milano. >> guest: well, it's interesting you mention that because somehow we've been sold that this bill would actually reform the immigration system. in reality, comprehensive reform didn't reform anything. and that's how, essentially, washington works. they distracted the public by creating a bill that doesn't

reform immigration, calling it immigration reform, so there's absolutely nothing out there to reform immigration. and one of the obvious examples of that is the bill that created the current immigration system in 1952 was 120 pages long. comprehensive reform in 2013 was 1,198 pages. and that wasn't 1,198 new pages, that was 1,198 pages on top of the 120 pages and on top of everything added over the decades. >> host: okay. got two articles here that i want to push back just a little and get your view as an immigration lawyer and somebody who is with the center for immigration studies. first of all, here is debunking the myth that immigration harms america. this was put out by several groups including national association of manufacturers, u.s. chamber of commerce, fwd

forward.us. myth: lowering the number of immigrants would free up jobs for american workers. and they say, fact: immigration helps create jobs for american workers. >> guest: where's the evidence? anyone can just say that. i mean, immigration itself isn't going to just create a job. there has to be other factors as well. >> host: such as? >> guest: you know, what is the type of immigrant? i mean, if you import a, someone who's a panhandler as an immigrant, let's just go with one end, that person's not going create a job. so there have to be certain, you know, you have to qualify it more than "immigrant creates jobs," and that's how they express it. >> guest: the other thing, too, that i think is important in the book, you know, really one of my core missions as a journalist over the last 25 years is to

help people synthesize information. and the synergy that john and i had in writing this book came from, you know, my journalism background and being able to tell stories and john's with his analytical skills and, of course, the depth of knowledge that he has about how all of the immigration, so-called reform sausage making, has occurred in this town. and part of that entire kabooky theater involves these advocacy groups that pose as neutral number crunchers. and so we have what i think is a very important and enlightening section on one of these very prominent groups. it's the partnership for -- national partnership for a new economy and in conjunction with not just, you know, from my perspective as a conservative journalist, people on the left, but people on the so-called

right. big business interests, conservative think tanks. and they come up with, they just pull these figures out of the air and then have them regurgitated by bill gates or mark zuckerberg, and they march up onto capitol hill, and not only do they claim that there's a tech worker shortage, but they also say that h-1b actually magically creates some random multiplier of jobs, 10, 20, 50 times. and it really takes even just a basic knowledge of things like, yes, regression analysis. i know, your eyes are glazing over, but it's important to understand how they cook the books. >> host: some of these groups' names include compete america, council for global immigration, information technology industry council and things like that. but then on the leftish side of the spectrum is the american immigration council, and they

say before the employer can file a petition with the u.s. citizen and immigration service, the employer must attest that employment of the h-1b worker will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of similarly-employed u.s. workers. >> guest: actually, they're quoting from a different statute, not one that doesn't apply to h-1b. that's 8 u.s. c85a. and, in fact, as they said when they make those at testations, the department of labor is required to approve them as long as the form is filled out correctly. >> guest: yeah, this is just part, again, of the entire smoke screen that goes on. because they assume the average, ordinary american is not interested in knowing the

differences between a certificate of application and a labor condition application. and so it is part of the big, fat lie. and we bust all of these myths in the chapter on all of the talking points that you always hear that somehow american workers are protected not only with regard to so-called nondisplacement clauses, but with recruitment conditions as well. and it turns out, of course, that many of these things that they claim protect the entire class of american workers only apply to a tiny, teeny, tiny, tiny amount of businesses in this country. and then for the businesses that they do apply to, of course, they've got lobbyists in the back room trying to make sure that their special preference or special loophole is built into, oh, i don't know, the gang of eight bill and its 6,000 pages or whatever it is. >> host: well, let's take some calls. let's get our callers involved. the book is called "sold out." michelle malkin and john milano are the co-authors, and steve is calling in from phoenix on our

democrats' line. please go ahead, steve. >> caller: good morning, and thank you to c-span. i'm not trying to to beat up anybody, but the question is, where's the surprise? the -- yeah. it's all about capitalism. capitalism is about gathering market share. it only seems reasonable to me that in the desire to lower the prices, we're going to get the lowest priced labor. it works so good with a pallet maker, why not work up the chain? that's my question, it works so down below, why not above? >> guest: what i'd say is you see that it's coming, that the big business is coming at the american worker from all sides. that, you know, we've seen it, as you're describing, at the low wage, and most of the public debate is on the low wage. low-wage immigration, should we have some sort of am necessity for illegal aliens -- amnesty for illegal aliens.

but the problem of americans in tech industries being fired and replaced by foreign workers really hasn't hit the news until recently. >> guest: and the other thing i would add, too, is this comes up a lot because, of course, there are a lot of fissures on the right side of the aisle between libertarians who join with sort of open borders folks on the left, and this is all in the headlines of the papers today about where does the gop stand. i think our feeling about the h-1b program and all of these foreign guest worker programs, this is not capitalism. this is cronyism. this is american businesses, the creme de la creme in silicon valley, using the power of government to rig the game. and, in fact, in an appendix in the book we reprint the e-mails between google and apple fixing wages. they want to fix wages, and they want to fix their pipeline for this, you know, cheap foreign labor supply that's undercutting

americans. >> host: well, in fact, this headline came from this morning's "usa today." more temp workers might come to u.s. congress is considering legislation to allow u.s. employers to bring in thousands more unskilled foreign workers for seasonal jobs that last as long as ten months at a time. i know that's not what your book is about, it's about the h-1b program that everybody seems to support, but what about the issue of unskilled workers, bringing in more? >> guest: well, i mean, again, they're facing the same problem as the tech workers are. i mean, the reality is not everybody in the united states really has the skill to become a computer programmer, and so there are going to be people who are going, in america, who are going to be doing labor, manual labor type jobs. i mean, if we're going to do anything about poverty, we have to improve the conditions for them. and in theory, the free market should allow that to happen. but congress isn't allowing the free market to work by bringing

in more foreign labor. >> guest: we already have 66,000 visas that are issued for nonagricultural seasonal workers and another 117,000 every year for ag workers. and in the same way that these tech companies are always cafling about a shortage, you'll also hear that in the agricultural industry as well, and it's just as suspect. >> guest: i saw a article just recently in the newspaper where the writer was saying that paying someone $13.59 was an absurdly high wage. i mean, that person could barely make it by on that. and that was for agricultural work. >> host: carey is in canton, north carolina. finish republican line. carey, where is canton? is that in thraleigh durham area? >> caller: , no, that's western north carolina, right beside asheville. up in the mountains. >> host: okay, go ahead.

>> caller: michelle, my best friend would be so jealous if he could just even knowo6k that it to talk with you this morning. >> guest: aw, good morning. >> caller: being that said, i've got pros and cons on both sides of this. >> guest: sure. >> caller: i can listen to the democratic party and some of the latino groups, and they can say, well, we'll pretty much blackmail the country into accepting amnesty. on the other hand, i can see a man from san salvador having to walk 2,000 miles across the desert because he knows once he gets to this country, he's got a job. when he looks at our inner cities and sees that most of the population won't walk across the street to get a job, i can see why he wants to come. i mean, i'm torn both ways. i grew up working tobacco, tomatoes, beans, on the farm. that's how i worked my way up to get a skilled trade job. i'm a transmission mechanic. fifteen years ago i went to a seminar which they said that the

average age of a mechanic today is 46 years old. it just -- i can look at the universities out there today and see where our government has actually failed not only us, but our children. >> host: all right. carey, we're going to leave it there and get a response from michelle malkin. >> guest: yeah, there's a lot there. i think i would approach it in this way and, certainly, as a child of legal immigrants to this country, i understand what he's saying about america as a beacon for people who want to come here and work hard. but we already have many processes in place to bring people here who have something to contribute. whatever part of the pay scale we're talking about. and the fact is that the number one problem in terms of immigration enforcement that this federal government faces is that they're completely overwhelmed. we go into great detail; gao

reports and inspector general reports in every single agency of the immigration enforcement bureaucracy. they're creaking. they can't even enforce these basic american worker protections in h-1b and b-1 and l-1 and the eb-5 program which is selling green cards to the highest bidder. let alone the problem, the ongoing problem of the illegal immigration situation. and so not only do we have to fight this compulsion that both parties have -- and i think that's one thing that's really distinctive about this book. we go after republicans probably even harder than the democrats. and it really does transcend all of these party lines, the inability of the federal government to do its basic duty. every single one of these immigration and entrance programs should put american workers and american citizens

first. their public safety, our national security and our economic security. >> host: want to show some charts from bloomberg business, and john milano, you'll be able to see them right there. here's a cluster of skilled foreigners. it says that in total employment 22% of the raleigh-durham, north carolina, area is for skilled workers, is held by h-1b visa holders. it says that most of these folks come from india. you can see there that the vast majority of h-1b employees come from india, and then china is next in the line. and then who is employing them. and these are some groups that, you know, at the top that maybe we haven't heard of. and it begins with tata consultancy services limited and cognizant tech solutions u.s., the two biggest employers of

these h-1b. and i want you to address that. we have, i think, one more chart? nope, that's it? yeah, we have one more chart, and this is the jobs that the h-1b visa holders are holding; systems analyst, programming, computer-related, university, educational, electrical education. but tata consultancy. what is that? >> guest: tata consultancy is a division of tata which is like india's mitsubishi. but they are in the business of moving jobs out of the united states to india. and so what we've seen -- what the h-1b program has done is created the business of importing foreign workers and moving jobs overseas. so what tata will do is, you know, bring in a few people into the united states, like five or six, to then send 30 jobs overseas. so you'll see five or six people in the united states on an h-1b visa, and then there'll be about 30 americans that lost their job

and the rest of the business going to india. >> host: william is calling from minneapolis. william, you're on the air, independent line. >> caller: thank you, peter. i like you very much, but i think you really got to make an effort to get to more callers there. >> host: i, you know what? you are absolutely correct. [laughter] >> caller: okay. i like you though. michelle, i don't usually agree with you on things, but i have to agree with you on this. i like to think i live in the h-1b capital of america which is minneapolis, and we have target corporation and best buy here. all their employees in their engineering are, quote-unquote engineering, is all indian. it's -- and they overstay their visas, and, you know, they never go home. i mean, that's never even addressed in immigration. all they talk about is the mexicans or hispanics that's coming across the borders, but the true illegal immigrants are the ones who come on h-1b visas and get these high-tech jobs and

high jobs in corporations like best buy and target corporation who i don't think you guys are aware of -- >> guest: oh, we're aware of them. >> guest: very. oh, yeah. >> caller: you know? and they overstay their visas. >> host: all right. we got the point, william, thank you. who wants to answer that? >> guest: i think probably a little bit of both of us. but, of course, in minnesota you've got senator amy klobuchar there who is the cosponsor of legislation on capitol hill that would greatly expand the number of these h-1b visas. and he hit on exactly something that is the theme of the introduction of the book. one of the things that we find has been flaw in much of the reporting and it has improved over the years is that even "the new york times,"es which is playing catch-up on these issues, treats it as if this is something new. when, as we have emphasized, this idea of bringing these people over here, making

american workers train them and then watching these american workers have to see these replacements go back to their home countries carrying all the knowledge that they imparted with them as a condition of receiving severance. it's happened at disney, southern california edison, harley davidson, cargill. it is a massive horror story. and the fact that the caller disagrees with me on most things but we can come together on this, again, shows you the very interesting fault lines here. and it's going to make a lot of people vulnerable. hillary clinton, we talked about tata consultancy. as a senator, she brought tata to buffalo as part of this government deal. they said they were going to create american jobs. it created ten. meanwhile, in the back door tata was petitioning for 1600 h-1b visas. where's the democratic outrage on that, the party of the people, the party of the workers? >> host: from "the new york times," large companies game h-1b visa program, and jobs

leave the u.s. julia preston says that many of the visas are given out through a lottery, and a small number of global outsourcing companies have flooded the system with applications, significantly increasing their chances of success. john in virginia, democrat, good morning. >> caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i just want to say, michelle, that i live in virginia, and i work in the area. and i am shocked at how many indians are living in this area. and it comes to me that we've seen a lot of young students graduating universities working in sam's club and costco, and they can't get a job, and they've got $80,000 in loans on their backs. it really bothers me that when someone tells me we don't have enough employees. we can train our young students another direction, and we can

get that job that would bring them overseas. here's the thing, most of these companies, they care about the money. and instead of paying the americans 80,000 or 90,000, they'd rather pay indians for 40,000 so they can save 50,000 for their pockets. and most of all i hear a lot of -- i don't know if this is true or not. there's a lot of bribery going on and corruption about these visas. it's not only here. the people that they're bringing, they're not qualified. they have to retrain all over again. and when this guy get into the system, guess what they're going to stay? they ask him to management, can i bring in my cousin, he's an indian? it's amazing to me what's going on, our children. >> host: all right, john, we got the point. mr. milano, is he right about the salary differential? >> guest: yes, he's correct. the program allows the employer to pay a prevailing wage at the

17th percentile of wages. i'd like to say -- [inaudible] and they're the problem, not the indian companies. >> host: is he right about corruption? or is it a gaming of the system? >> guest: well, it's not even a gaming of the system. this is -- the h-1b program is working exactly as it's designed to do. that's, that's one of my issues. i'm glad to see "the new york times" covering this issue. but i think, but my biggest objection to "the new york times"' coverage other than to it being new to this issue is that it's portrayed as exceptional. this is exactly how congress has set the system up and how it's working. the only thing that's not working as it's designed is that

the news media is starting to cover it now, and they haven't been doing it in the past. >> host: we are talking with the co-authors of "sold out" about the h-1b visa program, and david is in chicago on our independent line. hi, david. >> caller: as an american tech worker, i want to thank you so much, john and michelle, for writing this book. it's about time the word gets out. i'd like you to discuss how these trade deals have, as part of wto and foreign guest workers whether it's the immigration chapter in the tpp or the fact that we're baked into 65,000 h-1bs because of wto and, secondly, discuss the three executive actions that the obama administration wants to do in terms of spouses of h-1b work permits, of the fast track green cards and the o.p.t., if you could do that. and the total number of h-1bs -- >> host: okay, a lot of

acronyms. what kind of tech work do you do? >> guest: i do data certain network cloud with some nascent cybersecurity. so i'm very skilled, well-trained, and i'm making wages i was making 20 years ago because of the wage suppression. and wages have been flat for tech workers since about 2000. so we know there's no shortage, because if there was a shortage of s.t.e.m. workers, wages would be going up. certainly, that's the argument for paying executives high compensation, because there's not enough talent. well, if that were the case for tech workers, wages would be going up like they did in the '90s. but, in fact, they're not. >> host: all right, we got it. john milano. >> guest: well, i think david is raising h-1b is just the tip of the iceberg. there are other ways that foreign labor is coming in in this area of technical workers. but one of the issues he raised is trade deals in that, you know, the inside lobbyists are

using trade deals as a means to bring foreign labor in, that the u.s. is locked into giving at least 65,000 h-1b visas every year under the gets treaty x. now under the new trans-pacific partnership, they're also trying to slip in more foreign labor. then -- i'm just going through the list, david's list. the other thing we could add is that there are executive actions going on. obama this year started allowing spouses of h-1b workers to work. industry lobbyists have fought that in the -- sought that in the hopes that they can eventually turn h-1b into a twofer where they can get the spouse, and get both spouses to work on a single visa. another one we have is the, it's called the optional practical training program which is a student visa. in 2008 microsoft came to the department of homeland security

secretary at a dinner party with the idea of using student visas as a means to get around the h-1b quota, and dhs worked in absolute secrecy to produce the regulations, and the public didn't even know that these were being considered until dhs put them out without notice and comment. and so, essentially, we had this situation where microsoft was telling dhs to do regulations. they just did it and dropped it in. i've been involved with that because i had a court case that got those regulations set aside. but the obama administration's response to that was, oh, well, let's just put out new regulations and let them work even longer. so i've hit on several, and i haven't even hit all the different ways that are being used to admit foreign labor here. of. >> host: but they are detailed in "sold out." gene is in virginia, democrat. hi, gene. >> caller: good morning. thanks for c-span. i'd like to relate two things and, you know, get a comment.

first one is i'm a former, i'm a refugee from the big blue oval up in dearborn, and when i was looking for a new engineer for my group, i went to my hr person, and all i got was h-1b visa people. now, i've worked internationally most of my life. in fact, if i was still working, i'd be in brazil this weekend. but they, i went to -- so i'm far from xenophobic. i went to my hr person and said, hey, here in dearborn we are surrounded by universities that are turning out, making out pretty good little engineers. can we find at least one american? to which i was told, quote: h-1b visa people work between $9-$14,000 a year cheaper, so so that's who we hire. the other issue is i now have graduate students who are showing me me mails from i.t. companies that are literally based within miles of where you guys are sitting, one of them

being tyson's corner. and in the e-mail it says, quote: come to work for my i.t. company, and i guarantee you will be accepted at one of these two universities. and if you look, and one of them is based also in tyson's corner. if you look at them, they're unaccredited universities. basically, what they're doing is they're using the student visa system as a scam to get around the immigration workers and get i.t. workers in the companies. and by the way, this i.t. company, i did a little research because i do policy work. my undergrad's engineering, but i do policy work. and this company has government contracts! >> host: all right. gene, we got the point. tyson's corner, of course, is here in the washington suburbs, a high-tech area. >> guest: yes. we have an entire chapter in the book on how the f-1 foreign student visa program has been exploited as the, another one of these alternative channels to bring in all of these cheap foreign students, and that's tied to the optional practical

training program. and i think it's interesting again to note that these calls are coming from the democratic hine and the independent -- democratic line and the independent line and the republican line. we really think that we've struck a nerve here, because the if all we can serve to do is amplify these voices of america's best and brightest who have -- this is not news to them. but what this is is really a wake-up call to the beltway, to those crapweasels, i'll say it one more time on c-span, to talk about this collusion. and i think that this is really one of the key, key issues that's a breakout issue for this presidential campaign cycle, because it's talking about how the donorrist class has bought both parties. and the testimony on the ground from workers like this engineer shows two things. not only are these american workers being devastated, but of

course all of the h-1b visa holders who are used, essentially, as indentured servants and are being exploited as well needs to be shown too. and so we have a whole chapter on that. very perverse practices, and they call them names like handcuffing and body shopping. and really, of course, sabotaging the original intent of the program in the first place. >> host: michelle malkin is there any relationship between this book and your earlier book this year which was on innovators and american manufacturers? >> guest: that is a really good question, and the answer is, yes. in part, i've been thinking about delving into this issue for a long time because, of course, my first book in 2002 was "invasion," which was about the illegal immigration aspect. all along i had wanted to get here, and it really just was providential that the two of us were able to get together on this. but when i talked to the head of maglite flashlight, and we talked about this back in may,

he was such a fierce proponent of american companies hiring american workers. and this is an immigrant who came here from croatia for the american dream. he refused to outsource. he knew that the best and brightest were right in southern california. and really that just spurred me to tell the other side of the story. these two books, i think, are flip sides of the same coin. >> host: jenny, springfield here in the suburbs, independent line. >> caller: i'm really, really glad i have a chance to speak to both of you. and to the host, please don't cut me off. we just went through an election cycle, and the polling, the phone calling from the different candidates, and one of the things that was really stressed about how our american students are so undereducated and that we really need to compete with india and china, and, you know, i'm talking about the democratic

party telling me how our studentses aren't really getting the math education early enough. well, then they go ahead and say they can't compete in the work environment because of their lack of education. and i happen to know because i have children who actually are educated as, you know, ec nears -- engineers, and really the real world of what they go through. and what i saw was, you know, they're saying that, you know, we have to compete. and i'm, like, what about the kids who are graduating from the top universities in the state of virginia? why don't you take your message about how undereducated these kids are as they graduate and go on to graduate schools with degrees in engineering, with degrees in physics and they can't get to be -- get jobs. >> host: all right, jenny, we got a lot there on the table.

michelle malkin, any response for hersome. >> guest: that's as trenchant a commentary as i've heard on this entire issue. more trenchant, of course, than anything you'll hear from most of these candidates who continue to buy into the myth of the american tech worker shortage and at the same time are doing the bidding of these companies who want to staple green cards to every foreign student visa. and, you know, even among the candidates who are sounding the sanest on this -- donald trump, for example. we point out that he's got a terrific immigration reform plan not only on illegal immigration and the southern border, but also with regard to h-1b, the most detailed, the most detailed we've seen. he consulted with someone who we think has his head screwed on straight more than any other on capitol hill, jeff sessions. but even donald trump has sort of paid lip service to this american tech worker short orage and talked about the -- shortage

and talked about the need to import untold numbers of these foreign students. there's another aspect of the education part of this too that we delve into in the donor chapter, because you have bill gates wanting to open up the floodgates to h-1bs. and with another side of his tongue talking about how we need common core. and common core, of course, supports the myth that there's an american tech worker shortage. and in the meantime, what is it really doing? a lot of the independent academics who were behind the scenes here in d.c. where that, all the back room deals were cut on that racket say that all it will do is lower standards, particularly now in math and science which they're working on. so in essence, he would take this common core scheme which he's poured hundreds of millions of dollars into and actually put american students at the disadvantage that they're not at now. [laughter] >> host: from your book,

"clinton foundation donor and corporate mogul donald trump vaulted to the front of the gop pack at the top of the polls in 2015 by spotlighting brutal claims by illegal aliens against americans." "but while vowing to build a trump wall on the southern border, he also espoused a path for legalization for illegal aliens he deemed outstanding, a path to citizenship, in other words, that sounds a lot like the amnesty path of his rivals." linda's calling in from knoxville, democrat. >> caller: hi. i'm another liberal democrat who never thought i'd be agreeing with michelle malkin about anything, but on this one we do. [laughter] there was an episode of "the west wing" about this in the mid 2000s that dealt with h-1b visas, and it also fingered congress as the villain. there are so many things here.

i'm a high-tech worker. these people who are coming in on the visas are victims too. you mentioned that a little bit earlier, right after i called. and what they -- these people, what they want more than anything is to stay. they have to be here. so this makes them ripe for all kinds of exploitation. the salaries that they are purported to be getting, they don't get those salaries. half of that is skimmed off by the agencies they have to go to on the way here to get here. and if they make any kind of waves about it, don't pay it, they never get a chance to stay or to come back -- >> host: linda, what kind of work do you do? >> guest: ii would, should -- o, i don't really want to tell you. >> host: then you don't have to, don't worry about it. let's get a response about this agency issue from john milano. >> guest: well, it is said that most of these companies are coming -- most of these aliens are coming through companies

that are in the business of importing workers and basically taking a cut off the top of the salary. i mean, that's not the way the system is supposed to work. but one of the things i'd like to, you know, say, we have a liberal democrat here, and we've probably had conservative republicans speak. this is an issue that, essentially, everyone in america agrees to except in a small elite. and yet while, you know, liberals, conservatives, moderates all agree that americans should not be replaced by foreign workers, most of the presidential candidates right now support replacing americans with foreign workers. i mean, it's shocking. >> guest: and, actually, of course, this is broken out into the open now, and we'd like to think that part of it is sort of the "sold out" effect of the open warfare that you have between cruz and rubio over issues like this. cruz is rightly attacking marco rubio for all the water that he carried on the gang of eight bill. and then, of course, rubio points out -- as we did in the book -- that until recently ted cruz had supported the

quintupling of the h-1b visa program. i think our shared attitude about it is if everybody gets to the right position, if every one of the gop candidates, well, the democrats too, that's not going to happen, adopted jeff sessions' platform on reforming h-1b, if we could finally produce some kind of real results, not just fake, phony so-called reform over true, comprehensive, pro-american immigration enforcement reform, then we'd be pretty happy with that, i think. >> host: jim at fern hollow tweets in: michelle malkin ragging on nasty, evil corporations and the left still hates her? gosh. [laughter] ..

>> this is also happening in health fair. physical therapy systems, there pockets where all of the hospitals, the physical therapist and the aids are all from the philippines. yet, i know two families whose girls have gotten out of physical therapy school and cannot get a job. this is true in so many industries. it is so desk for mental to the united states. >> guest: the h1b is primarily

used in the tech industry but it is used in all industries as well. as you say, physical therapist is one, doctors, even accountants. the damage is very wide spread. >> guest: and teachers two, we have a area in the book that talks about that too. the fact about hh1b is it is sold on capitol hill for these specialty workers who are entrepreneurial and come here, they will create new businesses, you'll hear this propaganda from each 1b promoters on both sides of the aisle. yet, it covers things like supermodels. those are really interesting story behind that is to. >> host: donald is in south bend indiana. >> caller: i'm sitting here watching this, i'm just

skeptical of ms. malkin's -- i don't know, i'm just skeptical. i have seen you talk a lot of times on fox news and i don't know what to make of all of this. primarily the reason i called is because, what you expect? that is capitalism. you and your friends on fox have been trying to tell us in labor, that if a company wants to come in, if they want to hire somebody at a low cost -- i mean labor is cost. forget about their people and everything, they have families, they don't care. it is about cost. so now that it is happening to people that are working -- don't get me wrong, we need programmers, white-collar jobs, and careers, but now that it is happening to

them, you know, welcome to my world. >> guest: a couple of things, we challenge the leaders of the h1b racket and the funders of it, the the promoters of a across party lines. i do not agree with everybody at fox news with everything, i do not -- others probably don't agree with i said and we try to go to different venues and try to recharge with many people as possible. we address the fact that this is not any kind of capitalism in the form that i ever support. i have long been an outspoken critic of the type of deals we see not only in regards to h1b,

but whether it is green cronyism, the cronyism that was embedded in the healthcare bill. i think. i think this is where there are shared interests among so many of the collars that we have heard from. that is skeptical. they think i have an agenda, the fact is that as a journalist who has been out of the closet as a conservative for 25 years, you can take my biases by the evidence in the book. we urge everyone to do their homework, i'm not just a journalism here in washington that should be covering it better, all of those campaigns out here that are crusading for the american dream and american worker. it is important as a functioning, healthy republic, that citizens that citizens be informed. this is our educational and evangelical mission. >> host: this tweet from i love politics. it will be lies told by co to congress, u.s. workers are not available, not able to

do the work, unwilling to take the jobs. >> guest: basically sums up the nonsense. one of the things we have not mentioned. i used used to be a computer programmer. i saw the jobs and what the callers and readers are saying. right now if you're tried by the computer programming job, it would be really tough. >> host: why? >> guest: they are not being advertised. every so often i go into dice.com, to look to look for computer jobs in my area, it is rare to find any, occasionally one or two in the only listing our agencies who submit a resume and they will summon it to someone else. very few real jobs that i can actually find. if i was a computer programmer would be really tough. >> host: a republican in california. >> caller: yes, your guests have done a really good job of explaining the problem and it's

good to know about all of this. my question question is, what is the solution? is the solution to force until wage raise wages so they are forced to pay everyone those high wages? would that cut down or help the problem or is the problem -- what is the problem and what is the solution? >> guest: well before you fix the problem you have to know just how bad it really is. that was the purpose of the book. to really shake people and wake them up to the depth of the problem. we have our own comprehensive immigration reform plan, it is the very last section of the book. it takes a comprehensive look at what needs to be done on many

levels. i think the immediate think that the next president do is should put a moratorium on all of these programs and reassess how exactly they are working, who is being hurt. it is hard to do anything with the foreign guest racket when you have upwards of 30,000,000 illegal aliens here, 40% of them are visa over stayers with the stairs with the government having no way of tracking them down and making sure that people who should leave have already left. then, john can address some of the reforms in regard to each 1b, but the problem of with one of them and making sure that the prevailing wage is actually the prevailing wage. >> guest: the collars act skiing what they can do in the first thing is to be informed. one of the things about the book is for example we talk about how

aggression analysis is used to come up with these bogus numbers, one or two college -- we could put that in the book and explain to how these get these numbers. so the for the book, the shameless plug i guess, you can get informed about what is happening and understand the scope of the problem. once you know the problem, vote. find out where your congressman, where your senator stance on this issue. if your senator congressman plan support h1 b, vote them out. let. let them know that you do not agree with replacing american workers with foreign workers. same thing with replacing workers worth foreign workers. >> host: and some sold out to

tom davis, on big tex push to eliminate each 1b caps capsule together, quote this is not a popular bill with the public, it's popular with the ceos. jim in ohio, on independent line you're the last caller. >> caller: thank you. good morning to all of you. i have not realize how really big the problem is but it is very personal to me. i believe she is right, michelle that both the immigration laws and these problems that you brought out here are interrelated. the reason is, my weight is an immigrant, she stood in line and she came from korea. we got married, i had to had to wait for her for two years to get here. she finally became a citizen and we had two daughters.

one was a high up graduate in purdue as a graduate, she is 30 years old now gone back to nursing school because she cannot get a job that she would like to have with her degree. my other daughter is in international politics and journalism, right right now she is working on computers because she can't find what she would like to do. i knew there was a problem but i never realized how bad it is. >> host: thank you for calling. final final word from each of you. john. >> guest: will this book describes the problem that essentially everyone can agree on. that is, i hope not just from the intrinsic interest in promoting the book, this is an issue that has been near and dear to my heart for 20 years. this has been a labor of love to get it out in public. you can see what i have have been fighting for for 20 years. i hope that you will read it and will join the fight with me.

>> guest: it seems to me like this is a coup by our moment on c-span. to have had so many folks call in across party lines who understand just how daunting this problem is. i want to underscore what john said about translating this into votes. that that is where the power is here. we tell the story of dave in virginia who is able to topple and all of the money, much of it coming from big tech propagandists who wanted h1b, it's extraordinary. we see that as a sign of hope that it can be done. that the people's voice, the workers voice can be heard. and just the collar on the last thing it just underscores last thing that is so important to me, that is the idea that so many of us can unite behind this

message that americans are not anti- immigrant. >> host: finally this tweet, thank you so much for, you transformed this democrat midsummer. your book no #h1b hash # market lives matter. thank you for being on the program. >> is their nonfiction author book that you would like to see featured on book tv? send us an email, book, book tv at c-span.org. tweet us, at book tv. or post a, on our wall, facebook.com/book tv. >> many of this year's presidential candidates have written books to introduce themselves to voters.

also to promote their views on issues. here's a look at some of the candidates books. and his newest book, reply all, jeb bush catalogs his e-mail correspondence during his time as florida governor. presidential candidate and former neurosurgeon, ben carson understands argues that a better understanding for the constitution is necessary to solve issues. in his latest book, more perfect union. hillary clinton looks back on her time serving in the obama administration in hard choices. in a time for truth, texas senator, ted cruz recounts his journey to the u.s. senate. former ceo of hewlett-packard is another declared candidate for president, in rising to the challenge, she shares lessons she has learned from her difficulties and triumphs. former arkansas evan, mike huckabee gives his take on politics and his book gods, guns, grits, gravy.

kentucky senator rand paul calls for smaller government and more bipartisanship in his latest book, taking a stand. more presidential hopefuls with books includes marco rubio, in american dreams, he outlines his plans to advance economic opportunity. independent vermont senator, bernie sanders is another candidate for president, his 1997 autobiography, now title, outsider in the white house was updated to include his time in the senate and his launch of his presidential campaign. and blue-collar conservatives, presidential candidate, rick santorum argues the republican party must focus on the working class in order to retake the white house. donald trump has written several bestsellers, and his his newest book, crippled america, he outlines his political platform. finally, governor christie and former openers martin o'malley

and jim gilmer, has announced their candidacies but have not release books. >> you're watching book to be at c-span two. this weekend we are visiting oakland, california to talk with local authors and toured the city's literary sites with the help of our local table partner, comcast. next we speak with using brown, with her book, a taste of power which looks at the founding of the black panther party and its political activism. >> while our goal with black liberation we knew that there is only one pathway to that liberation, that was a complete dismantling of the revolution a fundamental change to a non- -- organized social construct. our goal was to say to the black panther party, the black panther party was not going to be the revolution, the black panther party wod