you can catch episodes on booktv.org. >> you're watching book tv. book tv, television for serious readers. c-span created by america's cable companies 35 years ago and brought to you as a public service by your local service or satellite provider. >> gary shapiro, consumer technology association, also joining us is tony romm. >> thanks for being here. we have a couple of days of the 2016cea in las vegas.

>> it's going to be a great event. we thought it was a little too much. we are hoping 150 and 170,000 so all of our guests have a great experience and hotel rates are not too expensive. over 3600 companies that's up from 2.24 million in 2015. it's going to be spectacular. more excitement and more different categories than ever before and it's the future. it's a show where the soling problems, real-life problems for the world, it's about healthcare, it's about transportation, clean food, clean water, greater food production, we are solving big problems with technology.

.. we shift to a self-driving car. this is our future.

this is the dynamic excitement that this industry and the free market and innovation provide, and how could we as policymakers insure that the united states stays at the lead. others are coming from other countries saying how can we capture that lead. the chinese, they have a five-year plan that focuses on innovation and patents. france will have over a hundred exhibiters there, and they will have a huge delegation because they're focused on innovation. we have competition, and that's a good thing. it's good for our own government to say, look, we just can't assume we're the best in the world. >> sure. let's talk about some of those technologies, and you mentioned drones. the new requirement that consumers beginning around this holiday season have to register their craft with the government. cta was pretty critical of some of what the government had contemplated. given the fact this is still a pilot, it's been a few days, what the organization's current

take on the faa's drone registration requirements right now? >> guest: well, we were part of a committee, and the government worked at lightning speed to get something done by the holiday season. we were a little taken aback by the $5 tax. but the fact is that drones are a reality in not only the consumer marketplace, but the commercial and the government marketplace. i mean, they solve big problems, they help protect prisons, they do perimeter security, they do aerial mapping, they do so many great things, they get medicines to people who need it quickly, at some point they'll be providing package delivery not only to your home, but also to cut down on traffic. what's our take? we are behind the rest of the developed world in our regulatory structure towards drones, and we're losing out in the testing sites. states are jumping forward, nevada, virginia have jumped in and said we want to be areas for

where there's drones. so there's a lot going on there. it's definitely a form of mobility that's very important, and we have to be the lead, and the federal government has to be more responsive and focused rather than ruling by exception. >> sure. and just stick with drone registrations for a second. should there have been more onus placed on the retailers to insure consumers had to register their craft at the time of purchase? >> i don't think so. i think that would be devastating especially to brick and mortar retailers. they're facing enough competition right now from online retailers. to throw one more thing at them would just make it more difficult to do business, impose new costs and contribute to their decline. >> sure. and switching to the commercial side of things, has the faa gotten it right? or is it moving too slowly to bring commercial drones into u.s. air space? >> guest: certainly, it was moving too slowly, no question about it.

that hurt everybody, including all our nation's companies that are trying to build and sell trones. now they've -- drones. now they've moved quicker. i mean, they mean well, and there are safety issues connected with drones, and we have to address them. >> sure. there are also privacy issues, and that's one of the big policy matters that hangs over the entirety of ces when you have these cases that deliver new ways. you and i have been talking about technology, the growth of ces, have tech companies found that balance or, you know, is privacy still the top issue for companies like drone makers as they too to introduce new services? >> guest: i think privacy is definitely an issue that some people care about it. i think some people mt. media and these previous professionals that make a living out of it care a lot more. we have to balance privacy and legitimate concerns people really do have against the fact that products are coming which will make a fundamental difference in our lives, and

sometimes privacy's less important. you can't just assume all your information is private. if this is an accident, that information should be able to be transmitted to others to help protect with safety. hipaa might have gone a little too far. as we aggregate more information and anonymize it, you could get all sorts of information which will solve diseases and problems. so privacy is definitely important. look, technology's going to solve our big problems. we talk about terrorism, and that's a big issue. what do you think is going to happen with facial recognition, voice analysis? technology's going to solve the problems that we're dealing with terrorists, and that's something we have to focus on, and there is a balance between terrorism and privacy. you know, right now stopping terrorism's a little more important than protecting every aspect of every person from doing anything. >> host: well, gary shapiro, that brings up the issue of encryption and how that affects your member companies. is there one opinion among all your members on the issue of encryption?

>> guest: i think generally the tech industry's pretty united that encryption's a strong, powerful tool that everyone should have in their products. and to start giving governments a back door means that evil people could get back doors and solve nothing. i think there's a consensus not only in the tech industry, but in the government security world that it's not such a great idea to give a back door. now, when it comes down to it, the truth is technology companies cooperate all the time when there's a legitimate need with law enforcement. what happened during the boston bombing, you saw them respond. but to say we have to design products so the chinese or american government or someone else has a back door is not viewed as a favorable development. >> host: why the name change from cea to cta? >> guest: we're just reflecting who we are in reality. we represent over 2,000 tech companies. when you have air bnb and

snapchat and pandora and uber and lyft and all these disruptive companies that are providing new technologies and services and they're up against status quo industries trying to use governments to stop new entrants, we want to help. we want to make sure everyone understands the world is about change. the world's about innovation and about disruptive technologies and giving consumers empowerment and choice, allowing consumers to do business each other. and that's why we created the disruptive innovation council and increasingly advocating saying, look, stop using government to affect new entrants to markets. they're united in their willingness to embrace change, and that's what ces is about. we don't ask the government for money, we never have. hopefully, we never will. but we ask to say be open to change because that's what the u.s. economy thrives on, and that's what moves the human condition forward; invention,

innovation, technology and the free market. >> let's talk a little bit more about that name change. you mentioned the disruptive innovation council. how does that organization's work differ from what cta is going to be to do in terms of messaging and lobbying here in washington, d.c.? >> guest: not at all. it's part of the consumer technology association. we have all sorts of councils and committees and things like that. this is just a hand-selected group of companies which are truly disruptive, measured by the number of customers they have, how they're changing the existing paradigms. it's a carefully selected group, it's by invitation only. a lot of company say they're disrupters, especially start-ups. this is not for start-ups because every start-up thinks they're disruptive. you have to establish a certain threshold of customers and web views or whatever it is to change the market, and that's why it's just limited to about 15 or 20 companies. >> sure. and it's a wide array of companies, and there are a wide array of issues that they touch on. what's on this group's agenda as

we begin 2016? is it dealing with some of the ride-sharing work that's happening in the states? benefits and issues around workplace protections here in d.c.? what's the early agenda look like? >> guest: well, some of it is reactive to what governments are trying to shut down whether it's state or national governments or even local, and some of it is just the concept of disruption being a positive thing. we spend a lot of time debating the word disruption. the old meaning, old definitions were negative. the new world, the way it looks at it, is very, very positive. so we're trying to get across the concept it's a good thing. we'll be sharing research. disruption is a part of how we are evaluating each of the 50 states as to whether they're pro-innovation or anti-innovation, and we grade every state. we'll be releasing the results again in the first quarter of the year to show that these are states which are good and these are states which have to improve their game if they want to be states considered

pro-innovation. >> given the state of affairs and some of the political back and forth we see in d.c., are the states a bigger concern for tech companies and cta than the federal government right now? >> guest: that's hard to say s. so only of the -- some of the states are a little more aggressive on, for example, recycling issues, and that's really challenging for national industries that are trying to get products out. on some of the issues like privacy, intellectual property and trade and immigration, the action's all in the federal government. >> host: gary shapiro, one of the issues that we've talked about quite a bit on this program and here in washington is the issue of net neutrality. as it works its way again through the court system, what's your view on it? >> guest: well, it's -- net neutrality as a concept is a good thing. i think the way the federal government has chosen to go about it in a permission-based innovation approach is not healthy, saying we can regulate anything, and we're starting to see now t-mobile, you know, the chairman of the fcc at one point

said it's a great thing they're doing with new plan. now though we have to question, give us information, you have to ask us permission first. i think it's a dangerous path we're on with net knewalty. it was working -- neutrality. it was working great. we've been fighting for it for 15 yearses. we got everyone to agree on principles, and everything was fine. it's still unclear why the federal government had to step in and say we have to do by law and come up with a strained version of it that's clearly subject to court challenge. we don't know what the result will be. net neutrality in principle is good, but the fact is companies need to be able to have differential pricing. we need to do whatever we can to encourage broadband competition, and that should be the goal. if there's broadband competition, you really don't need that much net neutrality. because if consumers could choose their broadband provider based on cost and price and options with full disclosure and the ability to get out of a contract if the broadband provider changes the rules, then

net neutrality's much less important. >> host: what about the upcoming spectrum auctions? >> guest: they're really important. we were thrilled that congress passed and the president signed legislation. it's a little complex. i'm not going to deny fact that it's not a slam dunk. we don't know what broadcasters will do, the way the auction will actually work, but we need that spectrum desperately. americans just assume you're going to have fast wireless broadband, you're getting full motion video all the time, and we need the spectrum for it. so by, you know, we have to give this a try. hopefully it'll work. and if it doesn't, we'll try something else. but we need the spectrum. the government spectrum is also, we'd like to see a little bit more of that become available. there's some great proposals out there, and we'll be pushing for those as well. >> host: and finally, when it comes to the ces show, you're going to have all five fcc commissioners out there on a panel. will you also encourage them to get to the floor to see some of this equipment? >> guest: oh, we -- everyone who comes, and generally about 99%

of them do when we have government officials coming. some of them have to go in and out, and that's unfortunate because part of the excitement is the five sense experience of the show and seeing the excitement of companies like intel and qualcomm what they're offering, it's huge. multiply that by thousands. they talk to the engineers, the inventors, the executives, so, yeah, they go out there, and every chairman has really done a great job of going to see the exhibits x that's what they generally do. what we have as an incredible challenge is the ethics rules. they basically say you're there for 24 hours, you're in and out, you get into a place like las vegas, and they have crazy things. we have a dipper where we host the -- a dinner where we host the top executives from around the world, and our government executives sometimes stand outside the cocktail party because they're not allowed to go in under the ethics rules. the fact that our government has an obligation and a sense to help us host this global event

where we get 50,000 people from outside the united states. i go to my competitor show in germany, and i see angela merkel is there greeting everyone. and yet we have rules and congresswoman play seven city where -- complacency where we're just not allowed to have our government do its job and help welcome international visitors and focus on the fact that this is what we're doing in the united states that's good, talk to their compatriots. i should be thankful they're allowed for 4 hours $24 hours. -- 24 hours. >> host: just to continue in that line of argument, the flip side though would be that you can consider ces to be a form of lobbying where the tech companies there, the disruptive folks say, you know, you're talking about looking for access to government regulators. how would you respond to some of hose comments? >> guest: well, you say lobbying, it's providing information and experience which is asking legislators to make decisions without firsthand experience.

and that gets you into trouble. i think there are experts, and what we do is, look, we embrace both sides of an issue. we have qualcomm's top patent lobbyist, they are totally against us on patent trolls. we present both sides of an issue, we try -- all the policymakers are out there in the open, press like you are welcome to attend and encouraged. we don't have too many secrets about what we do with the legislators. they're following the rules, they're doing their job. they have to be there, and those that don't go, in my view, are less likely to do a gad job legislate -- good job legislating or regulating. we're certainly not buying any access, they're just seeing the world firsthand the way they should see it. anytime a regulator gets out of washington, i think it's a good thing because hay need that experience to make -- they need that experience to make reasonable judgments. >> we talked about drones as one of the big pieces of technology on display at ces. another one looks like to me is virtual reality technology. there seem to be a lot of zones

set up for vr technology. is that industry concerned about washington? you haven't heard too much from d.c. on vr, but i it seems like the sort of thing that washington could take a look at. what does that industry think about d.c.? >> guest: well, there's virtual reality that is totally made-up reality, there's augmented reality which we have a whole new area for as well, and that's when you're putting yourself in an existing situation. you're molding out, for example, a piece of furniture as it would look in your house. so there's tremendous applications for that. virtual reality seems to be at point to be more game and training-oriented. but i'm not sure what regulators would be focused on in that. the companies in that space are so busy trying to compete with each other and get products to marketplace, i would guess they're not thinking that much about washington, because the ramifications aren't that great. >> although one of the companies in this space which i don't believe is exhibiting at ces have registered a lobbyist a few

months ago, it's one of the first virtual reality companies that have set up shop of sorts -- >> guest: who is that? >> magic leap. [laughter] >> guest: i'm sorry. >> what does that tell you about this industry or, i guess, other industries that are up and coming and the way they're engaging washington now as opposed to perhaps a few years ago? >> guest: well, certainly microsoft has made the make of ignoring washington, and facebook and google tried to learn from that. as you get bigger, everyone wants to take shots at you. and often when you succeed, that means you're diverting money from someone else, and they try to block you. it's more defensive than anything else. people figure out ways like on privacy notifications, well, how does snapchat as the government was requesting do a snail mail notification to all their customers in they can't. of it's not in their business model. so some of the old rules just don't apply, and that's why they

need, sadly, representation in a world where there's thousands of regulations on the books and thousands of ones being proposed. that's the biggest challenge to new business creation today. it's not money, it's not ideas, it's not even technology. how do you comply with all of the government regulations that is you don't even know are out there? >> sure. we've also seen a proliferation of tech trade groups that represent these companies. is there sort of an arms race to be the voice of a particular industry? it's also business as much as politics, but are these groups all competing for influence? is the space too crowded now? >> guest: actually, i like it. we're all colleagues, and we work together. and sometimes the more names on an ad or a letter, the more influential it is, the more people that are active. it's a free market and the more the merrier as far as be i'm concerned. companies vote with their dollars. >> host: gary shapiro, data security and data breaches, big issue in 2015.

is there going to be some displays on that kind of security? >> guest: yes. we have a whole new area of the show focused on cybersecurity and personal security. and that is an issue. obviously, it's an issue for our government, for major commercial -- any commercial company. but it's also seeping into the fact that we're going to the internet of things, and we have a thousand companies showing internet of things, connected products with each other using the internet. if someone wants to turn the lights on in your house, there's not real -- there's issues that the auto industry is dealing with very effectively. that's a more serious issue, and it deserves serious approach. some of the things are like whether some, you know, whether you could have your garage door opened. we dealt with these issues in different ways. technology will, in a sense, create some problem, technology also provides a solution. but we also have to train our kids and our employees and others to be cyber smart and not click on that foolish

attachment. so, yes, there is a focus, but we can solve it. >> host: all right. when "the communicators" is gone to vegas to this show, one of the things that we've found is over at the sands hotel, separate from the convention center, is emerging technology or new start-up companies. >> guest: yeah. so we are so focused on start-ups. that's what we believe in. that's, when i joined the organization -- before i joined it i heard this is why we have the show, it's for anyone with an idea to expose to it to thousands of investors, reporters like yourself, retailers, partners. and we formalize that with something called eureka park which is a subsidized area for start-ups. now we have over 500. we have a waiting list. you have to have certain criteria and, boy, is it an exciting area. engineers and entrepreneurs and innovators with ideas, and they expose them for four days to thousands of people with a view, and they all leave with a different concept that they came

in with about how they should launch that business. and a lot of them are acquired, there's been multimillion dollar investments. that's the buzz area of the show, but it's also throughout the show. we do use the sands convention for that and also for many other things like wireless help and a lot of other things. three of the top ten convention centers in the country in las vegas. we're using all of them for different things. we wish there was more space in las vegas. >> host: is this open to the public? >> guest: it is not. thank you for asking that. we are trying to restrict attendance this year, and we're very careful to screen the public out. >> host: why? >> guest: well, first of all, it's pure space. second of all, it's a business-to-business event, and the public has a different sense, and they're asking questions about where i can buy this while the business-to-business people are saying how can i have this product ready for next year's holiday season? if you modify this, maybe i'll go with it. it's more of a feedback relationship, and unlike

european events which are or open to the public, we believe and our exhibiters want, basically, they want the trade there. now, the truth is with over 150,000 people, every one of those is also a consumer. but a lot of what's going on in the business world today and in innovation, it's radically changed in the last ten years, is to succeed today, you must go across industry. that's why we have everyone focusing on the innovation ecosystem from the auto industry to hollywood to broadcast to cable to satellite to wall street. around the world coming to las vegas next week because it's a across segments doing business. we have a whole area of the show, three hotels focused on chief marketing officers and companies like google and amazon because they are new ad tech marketing applications to get your message out. so it's a convergence marketplace, and those are all consumers, but they're all business people, and you have to be a business person to go. >> just following up on both of those points that you made.

first, when it comes to the public, is there increasingly a gap between the technology on display at ces and what consumers are doing, the things that they're buying? if you read a lot of tech blogs, they would suggest some of these tvs that you see, some of these smart home technologies aren't the things that are ending up in consumers' homes maybe a year or two after they're shown on display at ces. >> guest: well, that's what ces is. in a sense, companies put out products some of which will never go to market because it does not get a good reception from media, retailers, investors and partners. but having said that, there are tremendous things going on in the video display and the audio area. high performance sound is back. 4k ultra hd is a grand slam home run, better blacks and whites, phenomenal colors. everyone who sees an ultra hd wants one. but what we're seeing in the wireless health products, things like that, these are products which are up double-digit growth

every year. the fact is, you know, there's been high water marks set by smartphones and tablets which have got the media penetration in just a few years. it's a matter of expectations. but the companies engaged in these spaces see tremendous opportunity. there's huge investment going on, and people are buying the products. look, what i have around my wrist right now that's measuring my steps and my heartbeat, these products didn't exist a few years ago, and now at least 10% of the american population is wearing one. that's a huge growth curve. maybe not enough for optimism media people, but there's a joy and a cynicism in some of the reporters covering technology. the fact is we embrace technology in this country, and there's huge room for growth. and around the world as well, because their solving real-life problems, helping with our health, they're helping with what we eat, they're helping in agriculture, and they're making a huge difference. >> ces is in 2016, 2016 has that election, i'm pretty sure, so i have to pivot to the presidential election, and you

recently wrote an op-ed talking about marco rubio and called the senator the ubercandidate, i believe. talk about why you think he's the candidate of choice for republicans and, you know, entering november. >> guest: well, this is, obviously, a personal view, but i do have the position, and the reason i do is because he is the only one talking about innovation, talking about the dynamism of the american economy, about how change occurs. there's a whole chapter in his book about uber. that relates to the average american person, younger people especially who are using uber in so many different ways to extend where they live, to get to work, that last mile away from public transportation. and also all these start-ups are out there. what we've seen from the obama administration, frankly, in terms of affecting start-ups is deadly. this proposal that everyone must make overtime unless you make 50,000 a year will kill many start-ups. denying the right to use interns, obamacare. we have to spend over $50,000 a year extra just to hire interns because we have to put them on

obamacare. this is not good for people graduating college, and i see marco rubio, someone who's willing to talk about these issues. i have not seen any other candidate on the democratic or republican stage talking about this in such a forceful way or, frankly, any way at all. and that's ooh what i -- that's what i appreciate about senator rubio. plus, he has taken a reasonable approach on immigration. he was one of the creators of the start-up act which allowed crowd funding and pushed new ways of funding ventures. he is focused on innovation as creating jobs, and that's a discussion this country should be having, and i appreciate it greatly. obviously, i don't agree with his positions on some issues or a lot of other candidates' positions on issues. but in terms of innovation, he is the candidate that i think the tech i have should be talking about because of what he's saying. >> but the tech industry is mostly talking about hillary clinton right now. many of the start-ups that you're talking about have flocked to the democratic side of the ledger. why hasn't rubio gains the traction that maybe he and other

supporters would like him to have? >> guest: well, among republicans, i'm sure he will. the challenge that the tech industry faces is that they're promiscuous in their campaign giving. that leaves both democrats and republicans going to silicon valley, collecting donations basically without regard to where they stand on technology and innovation. i think that's unfortunate, and it's gradually changing. so i think it's up to the tech community. if they want to give money to candidates like hillary clinton, they should be challenging the innovation support, patent reform. all these issues of major importance to the tech industry and especially reverse some of these policies from the obama administration which have made it increasingly difficult for kids out of college to get jobs and to work for tech companies. because it's a growing issue, it's a problem faced by our own defense industry, frankly. where are these engineers coming from? that's what ill con valley

should be -- silicon valley should be talking about with candidates. >> host: and finally, gary shapiro, you've introduced an old technology to the ces show which is books. you have a book club or a book section there at ces. if somebody goes to the web site, what kind of books are they going to find? >> guest: books focusing on innovation and technology. i successfully launched two of my books at ces, and our economist, chief economist launched a third in 2015, so we said why not give other authors this opportunity. we did it in 2015, phenomenally successful. 2016 say, look, people still read whether it's in the old to dead tree version or the electronic version, and it's been very successful. we found lots of authors want to have their book there. we had a huge number of submissions. and, you know, we have criteria, must be a recent or about to be released book, and it must have to do with innovation and technology, but there's some great books there. >> host: gary shapiro, president and ceo of the consumer

technology association which sponsors the ces show in las vegas january 6th-9th of 2016. tony romm, who will be at the show, is the senior technology reporter for "politico." gentlemen, thank you very much. >> guest: thank you. >> thanks. >> c-span, created by america's cable companies 35 years ago and brought to you as a public service by your local cable or satellite provider. >> this morning the brookings institution will host a discussion on the future of afghanistan by looking at the u.s. role and ongoing efforts for maintaining security in the region. that's live at 10:30 eastern over on c-span. and former president bill clinton is in new hampshire today campaigning for his wife hillary. one of his stops includes an event in the town of exeter. we'll have it live at 5:15 p.m. eastern on c-span.

>> c-span takes you on the road to the white house and into the classroom. this year our student cam documentary contest asks students to tell us what issues they want to hear from the presidential candidates. follow c-span's road to the white house coverage and get all the details about our student cam contest at c-span.org. ♪ ♪ >> from the annual techcrunch disrupt in san francisco, a demonstration of ibm's artificial intelligence computer system known as watson, the founder of the instant message service used by isis, and a conversation with rapper snoop doug about his new can -- snoop dogg. >> thank you for that unenthusiastic welcome back. [laughter] [applause] appreciate that. it's monday, so you guys are