to looking out to sea faces and kids on their phone of older people talking to each other, very often the older people who are so enmeshed in their phones. child to parent state you are posting our family dinners on facebook. i just want to talk to you. i want to come down to dinner in my sweatpants and not be posted on facebook and talk to you. ..

do you feel those two are parallel, that there is crossover? >> this last, definitely yes on this last question. also an inability to read history, to read a parallel study is the study of reading. a skull everything discovered that, she went on vacation and every three years or so she has

this game, she loves the. it's like her favorite book. she would've vacation i think to greece. she says she couldn't read the book and she realized she'd lost the capacity to read serious fiction. should lost the capacity to read something along, you know, which is a phenomenon, the brain rewiring itself to be just reading to the shortstop we all read all the time which nicholas expresses so brilliantly. also brought to the public attention so brilliantly. i am on a tear of our conversation. she's on a tear of the region. you can't develop this dialogue with the past in a complex way if you are not reading your so on that second point, yes. and on gender i didn't make gender the focus of my work but

i will say this. that women had a tremendous, it wasn't as though in doing this study the women stood out as being conversationalists. the women were on their phones talking about this constant refreshing, talking about the need to go, their troubles with conversation. it turns out that other researchers have shown that women do social media less than videogames. in other words, there are tremendous differences in what women and men do when they are online, and that's a whole other topic. but it wasn't as though women were exempt from the kind of taking out their phones during conversations face-to-face that i'm talking about here. here.

>> let's take these two last questions and then i want to remind everyone that the professors agree to stick ran and science books afterwards. she will be over there. >> thank you so much. religious education, we do a lot of conversations but we have this vertical conversation with god. and theologically whether not god hears the edges, sociologically up with us outside of ourselves and allows us to come or think about another when we do prayer. i wish is when if you encountered any resources within religious traditions or communities that encourage conversation? >> i'm going to quickly, thank you for being sensitive to my brain. i actually think that my upbringing as a jew is very

present in my way of thinking about conversation. the book has that talmudic appealing. i can only respond by saying, and then so many people spoke to me about prayer and solitude and the book begins with a chapter on solitude and conversations of, i discuss conversation in psychotherapy, with solitude, of self reflection. and i was very influenced by religious traditions and psychodynamic traditions in thinking about how to engage itself in conversation before you can engage other people. final question. >> no pressure. >> give me all the pressure in the world. i'm the director of career services here.

i want to find out, the things you're talking about, i'm trying to help the students get jobs. they are constantly texting and tweeting and we need him to do social media at all this but the two main skills you need them to have a to point out to be successful, especially in journalism, our conversation and empathy. empathy is one of these things we been drawing to import on the students. do you have any tips for what we can do about what we can tell the students in order to develop and approve these skills and will begin to as the professors and the career counselors to help them do so? >> i really believe that conversation is the talking cure for that for the failures of our digital age, talking is future. there's been a recent confusion in people's minds, a big literature on this actually,

between compassion and empathy. or even sang that empathy is old school, compassion is the new, that, you know, we feel compassion for things that are far away and we are feeling for them, but empathy is the ability when you are with someone to really put yourself in the place. and that is what you were trying. you can cover distant events placing all my god, a flood, flood, compassion. but really to do the job as a humanistic journalist scholar, citizen, i think we need to be, i think we need practice in talking to each other. and compassion in that sense and understanding, and not being judgmental, a lot of the students we are training really haven't had that many conversations when they come to

us. we need to start to talk to each other. >> with that, please join me in thanking professor terkel. [applause] >> [inaudible conversations] >> you are watching booktv, nonfiction authors and books every weekend on c-span2, television for serious readers.

>> [inaudible conversations] >> good evening and welcome to the mid-manhattan branch of the new york public library. thank you for joining us this evening. tonight's program is a talk based on the author's recent book "1932: the rise of hitler and fdr-two tales of politics, betrayal, and unlikely destiny." in 1932, two depression battered nations confronted their destiny, going to the polls to

choose new leaders. america's presidential choices were gregarious aristocrat franklin roosevelt, or tarnished wonder boy, herbert hoover. germany suffered two rounds of bloody reichstag elections, and two presidential contests, von hindenburg against rising radical hatemonger, adolf hitler. as unstoppable politics and economic forces advanced upon weekend, disoriented societies, a merciless worldwide great depression brought opportunity for transformation. perhaps hopeful, perhaps deadly. through fdr's new deal, and hitler's third reich, destiny

unrolled as it did, but reviewing history may reveal whether the outcomes of the two movements were inevitable. now, before we begin tonight's program i have the usual requests. please of silence your cell phones, pagers, and any other noisy devices that might interrupt the program. secondly, please do not take any pictures or make any recordings this evening, and lets you have received prior permission from the new york public library administration. and we thank you for your courtesy and consideration in that. tonight's program is being filmed by c-span, so would you please hold your questions until the end of the presentation. our speaker tonight is david

pietrusza, author of several award-winning books, including 1920, the year of the six presidents. rothstein, a lifetimes and murder of the criminal genius who fixed the 1919 world series. 1948, harry truman's improbable victory. and 1960, lbj versus jfk versus nixon, the epic campaign that forged three presidencies. he has appeared on good morning america, "morning joe," the voice of america, the history channel, espn, npr, and c-span. so would you please welcome tonight's speaker, david pietrusza. [applause]

>> thank you. and thank you all for coming tonight. i'm so glad to see such a nice crowd here. always have to excuse as to what a crowd doesn't show. it's the weather. it'it's like a for the weather s too nice or it's too bad so the weather must've been right in the middle here for all of you to find your way here tonight. last month i was up in hyde park at the fdr presidential library, and i discovered when i got there that i'd forgotten all my notes and left them on the kitchen counter at home. and after i spoke they said, don't ever bring your notes again. or maybe they said, don't ever come again. i'm not sure. i'm still sorting that one out. but in any case, since then i've gone completely noblest and just sort of winged it. it's far more exciting for myself. and as a jackie mason might say in reverse, i don't know about

you, if it's going to be exciting for you, but for me it's so invigorating. this is why, i was asked a downstairs before the program started by lady in the elevator how did you come to write this book. and as was indicated before, i've written three previous books on presidential history, the 1920, 1948, 1960. we've been on this path before. so you keep on it. but you have to sort of come up with a twist at some point, and we had these juxtapositions of jfk versus lbj versus nixon, the six presidents involved in the 1920s election in one way or another. and here we have this juxtaposition of historic figures on a world scale in 1932 where franklin delano roosevelt and adolf hitler run

presidential election campaigns, and then they take power in early 1933. and, of course, they die. they die within a couple weeks of each other in early 1945, and then there's this thing that unites them called world war ii. we have a certain synergy going on, and we take a look at the parallels. and a sub subtitle of the book has some meaning. i think a lot of subtitles now are like the blind which changed everything forever. but here we deal with three things we do with politics. we deal with betrayal and we do with unlikely destiny. we will deal with unlikely destiny first here tonight. hitler of course it is unlikely by any standard, any standard at all, aside from the policy which

we would survey not want to see implemented in any way, shape, or form, but he's essentially a high school dropout. he is denied entrance twice to art school. and he goes essentially is living in a homeless shelter. at one point he really is homeless on the streets of vienna come is a bohemian of sorts, an itinerant artist, ends world war i in the mental ward of a military hospital, it exhibits a little, think about it. there's probably a million german casualties in world war i, and he rises all the way, shoots the top rank of corporal. where is his leadership potential at the point? then he leads a coup which fails in 1923. it's a disaster. he is accused of personal cowardice any.

he could've been shot for treason come executed, hung or at least deported back to his native austria. he's not even a german citizen until 1932, the year of those elections. he's not even able to vote for whoever is one in germany, and yet there he is. so he's pretty unlikely. and franklin roosevelt is unlikely, too. yes, he has all the advantages in life that adolf hitler does not have. he comes from this wonderful a estate in the hudson valley up in hyde park, big mansion, farmland, workers, servants, ice yachts, a home up in canada, vacations in europe. so why is he unlikely? harvard educated, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

and the cousin of a president, theodore roosevelt, but he is unlikely because people are not sure whether he has the right stuff. and i'm not just talking about republicans doubting franklin roosevelt. people are wondering whether he's a lightweight, whether he has the intellectual capacity or the will to be president, to lead america in this time of great crisis, the great depression went on full bore in 1932. walter lippman regard him as a fellow who with no particular qualifications be president, an amiable fellow, and no great reason to be president. and bernard farouk, the financier philosopher of the democratic party, calls him an amiable voice got. just some guy who is, you know, sort of like maybe a thurston

howell iii rising to the top in 1932. and he is also, you're not sure where he stands on the issues. the question of his political honesty. and i don't mean whether he's got his hand in the tail because he never has to do that. he never will do that. actually his administration is remarkably free of that for its entire lens, but where does he stand? where does he stand on the issues? one of the big issues of 1932 is prohibition. it's startling to read the accounts of the 1932 republican and democratic conventions and see in the midst of this financial and world crisis, the great depression, how much time is devoted to prohibition, and

how little action is devoted to the depression. so it's big news event. and franklin roosevelt is decidedly court on the issue. you are not quite sure where he stands. it's been set of the major democratic candidates that year, he may be the driest. he is certainly very late in the game and enunciating awful position on the issue. he does not come u out for full repeal of prohibition until early that year in a speech in awful in new york. so you're not quite sure where he stands on that. also, here we are in new york city and we see in our current time a mayo mayor and the goverf the same party, the blob field and cuomo not necessarily getting a long. -- bill de blasio. we've seen it before with john lindsay and nelson rockefeller.

things come to a clash things come to a clash with franklin roosevelt in dealing with tammany hall which was the great democratic machine rolling new york city. manhattan, and certainly crooked as could be. franklin roosevelt started his career as an anti-reform and the new state senate but in 1914 he runs for the united states senate, tammany puts up an opponent and franklin roosevelt gets his head handed to him. and after that he realizes, don't fight tammany hall, let alone city hall. and he backs away from any direct confrontations with them, but in the late 20s, early '30s there are three big investigations of tammany one after another, the judge, the police, the lower officials and into the mayor james j. walker. what is roosevelt going to do about it?

norman thomas, socialist leader, rabbi wise, people like that oue saying do something, crackdown on tammany. and roosevelt who knows a tammany well control and 96 votes at the democratic national convention does as little as he can about tammany, and only does it when he absolutely has to. and yet he can't be too favorable to them because people outside of new york, people around the rest of the country, ddid not like tammany suisse got to dance quite the dance. there's a third issue in which he's very much shifty about. he had been a member of the wilson administration, undersecretary of the navy during world war i, a loyal wilsonian. and to be a wilsonian meant to favor the league of nations. and franklin roosevelt did, until january 1932 a gentleman named william randolph hearst gets on the radio out of los

angeles and the blasts everybody, just about everybody. hoover, roosevelt, al smith. one guy after another in national power, politics. and louis mcinally how which franklin roosevelt's chief political adviser says franklin, what are they going to do about first? what he does is it gives a major policy address at a very prestigious venue, the albany county grange state in which he basically says, 1920 resolve the league of nations as an issue, but times have changed. ithere will not be a major issue in this campaign. see you, woodrow. so people wonder just what they can count on in terms of all these issues. and as to what he can do to bring forward the a plan for

dealing with the depression. back to germany. america's would have a presidential election every four years. we know that. german is going to have a presidential election every seven years. that's in their constitution. and 1932 is coming to i can. the president of germany as a fellow named paul von hindenburg. von hindenburg had been a hero of german army on the eastern front in world war i, and he won the election in 1925 with the support of the ultra nationalists. not the nazis that sort of the old kaiser supporting guys. and he is anti-democratic, autocratic, but he's the president of germany. in 1929 there's a new plan for reparations in germany, and

hindenburg eventually supports it. his old allies turn on him, but by this time adolf hitler is gaining steam, gaining steam. that are for the parallels in terms of years between franklin roosevelt and adolf hitler. in 1928, franklin roosevelt had been elected governor of the state of new york with the support of governor al smith who was running for president that year, and it's real close to it's so close that smith has to get on the horn and ward off republicans upstate, you better count those votes correctly or the state police will come after you. it's that close, and franklin roosevelt is elected. in 1928 the germans vote for reichstag delegates and adolf hitler, nazi, wins 12 of them, 12 out of 400 delegates. so they're going nowhere fast at

the ballot box, but in 1930 there's a big change. there's a big change. if the fall of 1929, and in new york state franklin roosevelt wins reelection either because vote for any new york state governor had up to the point in time, even more than the very popular al smith. so the next day people like will rogers right the democrats have chosen their nominee for 1932, and that guys to ms. franklin delano roosevelt. in germany in 1930 they have reichstag elections and adolf hitler's nazi's rise from 12 delegates and the reichstag to 107. they are the second biggest party in germany, and the capacity that they have for creating mischief now is immense. so everything has changed.

acted in -- back against 1932, germany, the nationalist no longer like von hindenburg that he is all that is holding this republic together. he is the glue that is holding this republic together, even though he doesn't like republics. he doesn't like democracies do the people who opposed him in 1925, the social democrats and the catholic parties were sort of a centerleft party, they supporting. everyone has changed partners because he's going to be the guy to stop hitler and the nazis. what happens is that the germans vote in march of that year, and it's a four-man race essentially. there's hindenburg, there's adolf hitler who has become a german citizen by the fact that he has received a minor government appointment from a

minor german state, and that confers on him by the rules of the republic german citizenship. so he can run. there's hindenburg who is 84 years old by the way at this point, and not doing all that well. they are or the communists and the are those nationalists again. and the nazis think that going to do pretty well. heinrich himmler gives instructions to his assessment, don't get too drunk on election day celebrating, boys. we've got work to do the next morning. but, in fact, it's not close at all. into a four-man race, hindenburg just misses by an eyelash. are the notch is going to concede? the other party is about to get ready -- ready to get out the hitler announces i'm running again and i am taking this election to the german people. and people for observers of all this think fine.

fine, because adolf hitler is going to get crushed even worse in this runoff and that will show him. itc determined to run a new sort of campaign. it's been said that the nazis were a combination of the medieval and the super modern. and in this case hitler determines he's going to be the super modern. he's got only about two or three weeks to run this election campaign, and he can't run it, i mean, he could draw big crowds and mass rallies to give all seen the newsreels, but how many can you do in a short period of time? not too many. can he go on the radio? franklin roosevelt to the fireside chats. german radio is state run, state-sponsored at tha the timed they're still smart enough to keep the nazis off the air. and when they did with the nazis

on the air in 32, the first two guys to go on part two of his henchmen. so he's got to do it in a different way and he does it in a different way and it's called hitler over germany. he's going to fly to all the campaign stops. nowadays we say well, so? back then that the savages, just seven years after lindbergh. and it really excites the german people. hitler over germany has two meanings. one, he's going to fly over germany and the other thing is people eventually have power over germany. when the votes are counted, hindenburg still wins but hitler has come a lot closer than anyone thought he was going to come. and he has done it by taking votes from both the extreme nationalists and from the communists. and people go, are we going to ever be able to stop this nazi

tie at the ballot box? the situation is getting worse by the month. in america franklin delano roosevelt is blessed by some pretty weak opposition in the democratic party to be nominee against herbert hoover. there's an old saying in politics you can't beat somebody with nobody. and back in 1932 these guys who are wannabe rivals to franklin roosevelt are still somebodies even though they are nobody to us today. but they are pretty much favorite son guys and one of the lessons i think of 1932 is that guys who really want power, one positions, watch out for them and again placed and the guys to sort of taking a chance on a run, they are not going to do all that well. franklin roosevelt, i mean, we

know hitler really want power. and franklin roosevelt really want power, too, and he's got an organization with william mckinley how and james farmer and eleanor roosevelt and the brain trust yours. he's got a working us with of a modern campaign. the rest of these guys, favorite son guys like governor albert ricci of maryland, jeffersonian, repeal of prohibition, limited government, handsome fellow but he talks to h.l. mencken who is a supporter and says i could get more, i could do better know if i gave her speeches i guess, but i don't have any more ideas. so he's limited. there's a guy named alfalfa bill murray in oklahoma, the governor. he's pretty much a whack job. he's about ready to get into border wars with the state of texas, and besides who can take

a guy named alfalfa bill seriously for president? governor of ohio, people like that, and william randolph hearst is giving that speech out in california when he is trashing a going. he says there's one guy who's a real american and his name is john vance garner, speaker of the house, a good guy. and garner who would never given any thought in his life to run for president goes, fine, i'll give it a try. so he enters the race. another guy entering the race as old friend albert emanuel smith, when he got clobbered like herbert hoover in 1928 said, well, well, franklin, don't worry about being governor because, thought again, the roosevelt would be a lightweight and that smith could be the power behind the wheel chair running the state of new york.

frank, you be governor and when you want to go to warm springs to get healthy, herbert lehman will run the state, the lieutenant governor come in your place, and i'll help out. take a room in the whole tone of just how from the mansion. anytime you want advice i'll give it. franklin roosevelt wants to be his own man. that room will soon be given out by al smith. he's moving back to new york city to build the empire state building, and before that happened, there are two people he really wants roosevelt to keep on. what is a woman named bella moscowitz, very pioneering figure in having a woman at the levers in power in politics. she was secretary chief of staff to smith. and smith really wants roosevelt to keep her on. franklin roosevelt does not want a smith person as his number two

person. smith also wants his secretary of state to state on under franklin roosevelt. and franklin roosevelt once no part of this person. he hates this person. and this person's name is robert moses. okay? and eventually smith's anger, he feels betrayed by franklin roosevelt. it bubbles up to early 1932 when he's running against roosevelt, and roosevelt gets off to really good start. he's winning the primaries, winning the conventions early on in the year. he wins a couple of primaries in northern england. he's feeling pretty good about himself. and people warn him, don't run in massachusetts. because massachusetts is just full of irish catholic

democrats, and they love al smith, and they don't love you yet. actually roosevelt had tremendous problems in the northeast with democrats at this point. but he ignores that. he's gotten a big head and he gets back head handed to him. he gets crushed in a massachusetts primaries and then he loses in state conventions and connecticut and new jersey and underperforms in pennsylvania. john vance garner takes the vote in texas at a convention, and then the last big primary comes up as it always does in california, and people put out a flyer. and it says, if you are drawing, that is for prohibition, vote for garner. if you are wet vote for smith. if you do not know where you stand, vote for franklin roosevelt. evidently people knew where they stood and franklin roosevelt finished second and garner gets

all the votes from california. roosevelt still has a majority of delegates, delegates at the convention in los angeles. so why is he in trouble? because the democrats have a couple of rules, one of which is a two-thirds rule, which is to keep the south happy for most of history of the democratic party. and he's pretty well short of that 1 dollar, two dollars, $3. there's a thing called the unit rule. satyrs nine delegates for mississippi and franklin roosevelt has five of them and the other people want to do something else, he gets all of them. but what if those two peoples which was all of a sudden you have lost nine and this same thing could happen in arkansas and other states, and then the wheels start falling off. jim farley is begging to california people change, change or you end up with somebody you really don't like. and so what else is. and his name is joe kennedy.

yes, that joe kennedy. he's on the phone to william randolph hearst who is a fellow millionaire, fellow democrat, fellow film mogul, okay, with a fellow or mistress in the film industry just like william randolph hearst. they've got a lot in common. he says no, you've got to give it to roosevelt. you've got to give it to him because otherwise it's going to go to a real dark horse, i guy named newton baker. newton baker was secretary of or under woodrow wilson. hearst dislikes a lot of people but he really dislikes newton baker. can't we just throw it to albert ricci? no, no, you've got to give it to roosevelt. it to give it to roosevelt you can give it to garner for vice president. you can name both in the ticket.

what power you out. okay, fine. roosevelt gets the nomination. there's another custom back then which people do not have, which is you are not tendered a notice of your nomination immediately. several weeks later some big shot, from the party comes up to your hometown like hyde park, new york, or marion, ohio and says surprise, you've won the nomination a couple weeks ago. and then the nominee gives a speech. franklin roosevelt is not going to wait for that. what cdo? like adolf hitler he gets in an airplane, breaks tradition, flies from albany to chicago with the democratic national convention was and again this is a big deal. it's a big deal because, for one

thing, one of fdr's sons get sick on the plane and it takes seven hours. that's a primitive flight is. it takes seven hours to get from albany to chicago with two stops, if this excites people and franklin roosevelt says, we are going to have a new deal in america. so he's off and running. germany has a lot of elections in 1932. it's already had two presidential elections and they are just getting started because they've got to reichstag elections again. and what happens is that the nazis in july of that year move from 107 seats to 230. they are not the biggest party in the reichstag, and the

president, there's a phrase i love from a french anarchist observer sitting in the nazis state power. he calls them have clown have executioner. and boy, as he got that right. so the nazis were moving out, and where this is going to into? okay, so it's a parliamentary democracy, and the nazis are the biggest party so why not make hitler chancellor? well, the answer is, one, he's hitler and even germans in 1932 are more than a bit weary of that. and the people at the top of the government are very wary of that. but also germany has been operating less and less like a representative republic for the last year or so.

we complain in america about the two-party system, and there's a lot of reasons to complain about that. no republican is happy what happens totally in his party. no democrat is totally happy with what happens in the democratic party, but will work together and reformed these coalitions and get things done. in germany everybody hates everybody and nobody can get along with anyone. in that july 1932 election, 13 parties win seats in the reichstag, 13. 51 parties, and none of these parties can get along with each other. the socialists hate the communist. the communists hate the socialist. and nationalists hate the nazis. element of the catholics hate other elements of the catholics. nazis are not forming coalitions with anyone.

and middle-class parties have evaporated since the great depression so you cannot really form a parliamentary majority anymore. nobody will, you just can't do the math. that's how things are getting done, hindenburg when they mr. chancellor. and more than that what people do is the are some, the constitution of the weimar republic says you can do two things. well, they're a couple of things. article 48 says the president can issue orders which are like decrease in which are kind of like executive orders. so he can do that. they can be overridden by the reichstag, but there's an article 25 which says that the president can dissolve the reichstag and call for new elections at any time he wants.

anytime. no reason needed. whatever he wants to do, anyway them. so it's sort of like you want to overturn my executive order? feel unlucky, punk? they are not. they are not at all. they just stay frozen in place. so essentially you've got a presidential dictatorship going on, and they've had one chancellor after another. back to america. one thing which is what helped franklin roosevelt nail it down is trouble in the streets. we've got some riots going on against demonstrations, against unemployment often lead by communists like in union square, philadelphia, cleveland. then you get people protesting against foreclosures with the farms and then you get the bonus march. you get tens of thousands of people coming into washington

demanding that their bonus for world war i service be accelerated by congress doesn't want to pass it. they go home, adjourned, and the bonus marchers say we might stay in till 1945. you are never going to go home? it's sort of like a really big occupy wall street. ias if you were downtown when i was going on, the park was very small but this come we're talking maybe 20,000 people not leaving washington. and this was not something that people were used to. they are occupying government buildings which were about to be torn down to, build new government office buildings. they tussle with the police. two of them are shot dead, shot dead by the police. and that is when hoover calls and macarthur and the young guy named george patton.

the u.s. army comes down pennsylvania avenue during rush hour with gas masks on and then it sticks and tanks rolling down the street. and eventually burns out the bonus marchers. for the first couple of days the press was not bad for hoover put in the optics of these shacks being burned out people who would serve our country, veterans being thrown out at any point really comes in and hoover is basically cooked at that point. but this is nothing compared to what's going on in the streets of germany where hitler's brownshirts are battling the communists, are battling the police. our socialist private armies and the nationals have the own paramilitary groups. the violence takes up, picks up, picks up and people are getting scared of it. there's a particularly violent incident where a polish communist coal miner is home one day and the storm trooper guys

invade his house, his home, determined to kill him, slashing with knives, beat him, beat him with pool cues and do this all in front of his own mother. they are convicted quickly of murder, five of them, but hitler says i will not turn my back on these fighters for freedom your and a lot of germans go, whoa, maybe this hitler is not the guy to bring us together. maybe he is not the guy for national unity. maybe there's something wrong with them. into november 1932 the nazis lose 2 million votes in the reichstag elections. they are still the biggest party but they are finally, finally their rise is going down. and as the saying goes later on, maybe hitler has missed the bus.

franklin roosevelt gets elected in america. it's ready these against herbert hoover. in germany, that betrayal thing going on whether was a fellow named kirtland schleicher who had made and broke one chancellor after another. in late 32 he becomes chancellor. he does want to become chancellor but he prefers dealing in the shadows because schleicher in germany means steamer advancing to the nth degree. but one of the guys he has found was wan von poplin and he became great friends with paul von hindenburg and von poplin has an idea. is going to get his revenge against schleicher and he's going to do it by making adolf hitler chancellor of germany. pretty risky stuff if you are not a nazi, but von poplin says this isn't that risky because remember, who is issuing all

those decrees? who is assaulting the reichstag? who really has got the power? not the chancellor. notice i haven't mentioned a chance was made until this point. it's hindenburg. so you can make hitler the chancellor. he will still answer to von hindenburg. we will create a new office of vice chancellor which would go to who? oh, von poplin who have the ear of von hindenburg and also the nazis would get only two of eight cabinet votes, and they are pretty minor posts. so you've got hitler boxed. what could go wrong? okay. as fun pop in says, we hired hitler, he's working for us. we know the end of that story. it leadership is also in the air in america lived or not.

also working for macarthur is a young officer named dwight eisenhower. not exactly a firebrand. not exactly an extremist. mr. moderate as history knows them as, very middle of the road kind of guy. he confides to his diary in early 33. people call me dictator eyed because i think that's what's necessary in this country. there's a film made by in five out of gabriel over the white house would franklin roosevelt punches up the script for and then chose to congress what's noteworthy about a? it talks about a president of the nazis becoming active data essentially. and another studio puts out a film called mussolini speaks, narrated by lowell thomas which is essentially an infomercial for benito mussolini took it's made from $100,000 net $1 million. you try making money on a film

in 1932-33. not easy. people like lippman and smith, people have been violently opposed to franklin roosevelt are even saying you've got to take charge of this depression and rule by decree. to his credit, franklin roosevelt does not do that. is a different guy than adolf hitler. the united states of american so far as a different country than germany. him during the election campaign, american journalist named dorothy thompson went to the hotel in berlin to him to give adolf hitler and was expecting a pretty wicked sort of guy, but she came away very unimpressed and wrote little man, little man, you would never be chancellor of germany, no. but after hitler takes power, she sees one of those big parade he has with everyone coming through the brandenburg arch with her torch lights lit, the arms out and the nazi salute and

the searchlights piercing the sky and the drums beating. and she says wow, wow. postwar germany has ended. we were germany has begun, and so had prewar america. and that's how it ended my book. thank you all for listening. [applause] >> has had to cover a lot of things, a lot of countries and a lot of continents i left out some things are so if you have any questions, let me know and the gentleman from c-span will head into the microphone be and we will give it a shot. >> didn't mussolini use the same term brownshirts that hitler just? >> did mussolini use the same

term of brownshirts as reported, and the answer is no. it's black shirts i can also shirts, there's a lot of shirts going around at the point in history. there's a silver shirt movement going on in america, and these bonus marchers actually adopt sort of a khaki color. they become khaki colors and the fascists in spain are the blue shirts. next question. >> on the point about marian davis being -- joseph kennedy mentioned, did he have an affair like william randolph hearst with jean harlow? >> the question is about mistresses, and william randolph hearst has mary davies as investors come and joseph p.

kennedy has lori swanson at this time. question over there. question over there. we're going to move the questions around. >> gabriel over the white house -- [inaudible] some people took it as a dictatorial, the volunteer in 34 and initiative that there was a movement which has a certain amount of dictatorial chicory in the way they defeated the others. but i want to know how popular was that, what effect did it have come if any? >> the question is a reference to gabriel over the white house, how popular it was. the other picture, echoes the on

the scope of my book. it's called the president vanishes. gabriel over the white house was quite popular, and was also a film historian william iverson has spoken there was a genre called fascist films of his time which were really vigilante films. think of something even more death wish than death wish where it wasn't just some guy offing folks on the subway but it would be like prosecutors lining people up against the wall. gabriel over the white house, that's really over the top seems. my favorite is when the gangsters wanted to maintain prohibition because it's in the interest, roll up into the driveway of the white house a machine gun the joint like it was some speakeasy in illinois. just really crazy stuff. but yes, next question.

>> wonderful presentation. >> thank you. >> what, if any, did world war i, the defeat of the germans in world war i psychologically, how much of an effect did that have on hitler's success later? >> the question is, how big of affect to germany's defeat in world war i have on hitler. absolutely immense. one thing i don't get into accepting the book, except really in a footnote is hitler ends the war in that mental wing of the hospital north of berlin. it appears based on, he's blind. he was blinded in a gas attack on poison gas. and it appears from when the onset of the blindness comes and where he was treated and who he

was treated by, they were largely psychosomatic, and he was hypnotized while he is being treated. because the fella knows he's not a sure for andy's got to reach this guy, dating scene again, look into my eyes. germany is defeated. we need a great leader. you can be that leader but you have to get your eyesight back. you have to get your eyesight back. and this is, there's been an actual book written about this. the thing is, hitler has no leadership skills. no one pays any attention to him until after that point when he goes down to munich, and everyone pays attention, any nazi or extreme rightist does.

but before that no one does. and some nazis come high ranking guys who serve in the party later, in the bureaucracy, with their asked later, was hitler a leader during the war? and they would just laugh. just laugh. because it's like a light switch is on with them and no one is quite, there's no other explanation of how this guy goes from zero to 60 in one second at that point in history. and, of course, it affects the entire german nation and just list everybody out. and then when the great depression and everything else, it's critical mass. >> yes, the holocaust go what was hitler's basic problem with the jews? i mean, besides, isn't there a

rumor that his grandmother or great-grandmother or something was one-sixteenth jewish or something? >> the question is, where does all the anti-semitism come from in hitler. and the question of whether hitler has some jewish ancestry. it's hard to place exactly where the anti-semitism starts. not many people who knew him early on are talking, and the results are contradictory. did it start in his hometown or did it start in vienna or does it start when he's reading anti-semitic publications they are? he talks about come in "mein kampf," and you -- if you complete "mein kampf" he talks about come it seems to come out

from his antipathy to the social democrats. he says look, there's a jewish name, there's a jewish name, there's a jewish name. but it is something that is in the air in austria. vienna also has a very high jewish population, probably more than maybe not in russia, but it's like seven, eight, 9%, pretty high been. in berlin it's 1%. it's not very high. ..

we can only guess. but hitler comes from a much older mother, much younger mother. he has an older stepbrother like roosevelt and hitler had an affair later on most people

think that this has to mean and she commits suicide and franklin roosevelt married a relative of his because the real name of eleanor roosevelt is anna, eleanor roosevelt roosevelt. so she's given away by her own goal, theater rose felt. yes, any other questions? >> i wanted to ask him what made hitler so antigenic. how did he get that? >> the question is what made hitler get into eugenics? when you get into racial purity, it is a natural thing. in terms of pure eugenics, and guys like hitler were more into

this a racial remain sort of thing. but beyond that, it is all part and parcel. but he is a foreigner to germany. he is an austrian. he asserted the odd man out and he worships a german mess of the german people and he feels that the austrian germans are being let down by leadership. even though his father has a job with the government, his father is a german nationalists. pcs the german people be polluted by jews and particularly by slobs. there is a greater chance that hitler is part jack benny is jewish simply because of the area in which he lives.

it is a border area and if you get into these areas of eastern europe, and you know, everybody -- that is by woodrow wilson could not have the determination of people. you can't drop its borders carefully. and i suspect if you are to look far enough, you would find some check blood. he certainly doesn't look like an aryan. he is not blonde. he may be blue-eyed but he doesn't look like a reinhardt hatred can do something like that. >> i read appear how the depression started to appear and really did start -- things really began to fall apart economically not that long after the crash. how did it happen in germany?

did it get worse in germany than it was here? >> the question is how did it start in germany? it starts out worth because germany is of course had to defeat, occupied by france, hyperinflation in the middle the decade. so they start out and then they go to six or 7 million unemployed in 1932-33. the communists -- the nazi have a certain stability in terms of membership. they hold their people. he pretty much stay with the party. and they hold their membership. the constant with the communist is almost all their members are unemployed. there's a big economic problem

there. i'm going to cut things off now because of c-span to try the whole of the program within an hour for folks there. what not to want to wear out her welcome with that. thank you very much. [applause] not that we have cut it, if you want mark questions i will take them. okay. well, let's get some new people. you. >> president hindenburg, what was it that enabled hitler to rise from chancellor under the authority of president within a year? >> took about two years. what happens is one you use the word enable at first off there is the right fire where

somebody, probably translates safire, earned it down on a dutch communist, which gives the excuse to throw the communists out of the job and then give them pretty much -- actually gives them a working majority because they've got the national and the catholics now. so they finally got a majority. then they passed an enabling act which basically says everything we do is legal. not good. the third thing as the night of the long knives, were hitler has run afoul of the fact. you've got these extreme nationalists and mini guide national socialist and then you've got left wing guys think goebbels. goebbels is very left wing. and a guy named strasser who was

thrown out of the party because he's trying to make a deal with striker in december of 32. so you've got these guys, but you've also got people who are okay, we're at the biggest party. when we become part of the coalition? hitler said i've got to be chancellor. but once in jobs, man. we want some patronage and other guys are basically saying we want to beat everyone up. and hitler gets rid of some of those people in 1934. he also kills strasser. he almost kills a top speechwriter. he kills schleicher and a lot of people who may have known god knows what. but in the meantime, hindenburg

really took an instant disliking to hitler. one is the class thing. and the field marshal. he is the corporal. why should i take this austrian or bohemian corporal he is called for some reason. seriously. he doesn't like his policies. he doesn't like beating up on people. he does not like they hidden sort of dictatorship. the first time they meet is on our meeting and hitler talks for 45 minutes and just take them off. hitler grows and hindenburg dies. hindenburg dies in the constitution said the opposite office of the presidency devolves on hitler. at one point, the nazis were going to change that as long as they didn't have a chance to

shake. they were getting a little adept at politics, but then they didn't have to. if there has both offices and they passed another and got the vote and that's okay, now its furor and he's in charge. by that time he's also got the army on board and they are pledging personal allegiance to him, which had never occurred under the german army. >> just a brief question. >> thank you so much. just a brief question. was popping part of the military? >> on top and has a really interesting. mr. c-span guy, i promise that fellow max. but then, right there. but i'm going to answer that question now. i just wanted you to know.

von was a minor sort of aristocrat. he was the military at cachet in the western hemisphere before and during the world war i. so you have actually met macarthur in veracruz, new mexico and then he was sent to washington. he does some very interesting things in world war i which is to blow things up here. if you ever heard of the black tom island and it sky high with the mission in the shatters the statue of liberty, directs part of that and they try to blow up the canal and canada and eventually he is expelled from the united states of america. he was not well thought of in

germany. he was a member of the catholic party, that they would not fight and even ran a red shop. they let him run for some provincial thing. it is like obama skipped the united states senator ring became president from state senator, okay. so he skips out early he had been -- he was not a military guy. who's the very minor political guy with a very lightweight reputation. it is amazing that he survives. there is an arrest warrant adding canada for him when he's made chancellor of germany. and america remains the state department and they made this guy a chancellor. if he was sent to america as ambassador, america as ambassador, we would america as

ambassador, we would refuse his entrance into the country. but he gives a speech when hillary is starting to accumulate power and fun pop and is still vice chancellor, he gives a speech of marburg, really carrying the nazis and no one, really telling it like it is, like this is a dangerous group of people. what if we done? it is the mayor called upon popping was not killed. and he was made ambassador to austria and turkey and was acquitted he's just one lucky son of a gun. yes, sir. >> very nice presentation.

we know now and while a you would cherish it as the other people in the human history. and though some of the young generation. and he created the industry and is the basic reason for the war war -- >> it is always a puzzle to me. when you spend a year and a half with hitler like i did and

roosevelt, you start to puzzle these questions and questions you didn't even think about before. one of them was really okay, first about how do i explain hitler? and the question which kept nagging at me was how do i explain the german people returning to this guy. i mean, why? he is the man who has risen from the ranks. that little throwaway line in the beginning where he wants it so bad and where roosevelt wants it so bad, so the guys i liked okay, jeb bush is standing on stage now. at the time you say does this guy want it? when people asked that question, they don't turn to them. i ran for office once and people

want you to knock on their doors. they want to know if you wanted or not. and whether they are going to vote for you. i think they knew he wanted it and then he was serious in what he wanted to do. i came across a news reel afterwards, giving a talk. looks like he's in a field. he's not in a big stadium and is talking about all these different parties ruining germany and how he's going to get rid of all of them. that is the goodness and the bad news is who is going to replace them with. so people are sick of this gridlock. but sometimes gridlock is better than havelock. so that is part of it. another thing is the appeal of

the nazis, which i don't think people think about a lot is how class ridden how class ridden and divided the society was. it is divided geographically. it is one of the few countries divided religiously in western europe. in outcome is that the catholics in the south. the catholics have her -- hitler is down there, but the catholics don't vote for that much. you got that divide. you've got all the prescient versus these guys versus bad guys and you have mobility versus everybody else. but even in a factory, you might get six different degradations. people have to bow to a different person and people were sick of that.

they wanted some sort of unifying theme which would destroy all these class distinctions, but they didn't want to destroy them in a marxist way. at least the transit. communists did, socialists in their own way. this was their way to bring people together in the race these differences, but not in a marxist way, but also you get a lot of people who don't like democracy. you have the majority of the people at the end of 1932 voting not just for a dictatorship, they are voting for totalitarians. the combined vote of the communist and the nazis is a majority. a majority of the people and democracy are voting to add the democracy. and then you add in the

nationalized and things fall apart. you can't even more people. you probably got 60% of the people who want nothing to do with this republic and he is the god who's going to hand it. a lot of the communists to sign on later on to what was it they said about the vouchers. they would say the brownshirts bileca stay. garry brown on the outside but red on the inside. anyone else? okay, you. >> for the nazis aware of the clan movement here in the united states? >> i think to some extent and

may go by 1925. >> it never comes and goes. it is refounded in 1915. by 1920 it is still fairly small. they marched down pennsylvania avenue in 1924 with about 40,000 guys. but then they get a lot of scandals. by 1929, they are pretty much washed up. [inaudible] >> not giuliani. the question is did mayor giuliani allow the plant to march in new york city? they do march in new york city in 1920.

there is a claim parade in queens in the late 20th and it is a minor election issue with mayor walker and mayor hyland. highland boulevard in staten island. hirst put them in as mayor. hearst had three papers in new york city. the journal, the american and the mirror back then. that they are aware also of henry ford. henry ford had written protocol -- he had the dearborn independent and he put together for someone wrote for his series of articles, a very long series of articles about jews and this was published like a paperback called the international jews

than it sold a lot and eventually ford was sued for libel by jewish individuals and had to apologize and eventually shut back down. should go forward with more of interest to the nazis in the clan. compared to what nazis had going was kind of small potatoes really. >> you make reference in your book about parallels between this. and what is going on today in the u.s. and globally. >> i try to steer clear of god. you know, one of the things that people ask me, what is the theme

of your vote? i try to stay clear of fans because if you do that, you are going to try and fit all of your facts into reinforcing that. i would rather just let things sort of float the way they do. if people see parallels, i mean, there are parallels between executive orders. be careful. you may like the guy who's doing executive orders to the, but maybe there will be somebody else tomorrow and you will like them less. or maybe you won't like either. but that is a possibility. a lot of people when they comment on my books will say he really plays it straight. i'm very honored honored when people say that.

there was one reviewer on amazon and amazon reviewers can sometimes be like while. the sky, the author was really in the tank for this one guy. i won't say which the guy was. i burst out laughing because this guy cause me to change parties when i was a kid. and that was the unit used to being in the tank for it. but i also think that people sometimes could be a litmus test. if you read but i am writing, and you will say that supports what i'm thinking that maybe somebody else on the other side of the spectrum say that supports what i'm thinking. i try to be an equal opportunity

offender. someone called me and said he's reading the book. he's really enjoying it. okay he says wow, i never had much of an opinion of hoover. he looks really terrible in your book. you know, when hoover is wrong, he gets it. i try to call them as i see it. one person who i found this was interesting, so i've done four of these presidential yearbooks and somebody shows up in a significant role in all four. that is 40 years. you are at the top. it's alan r. roosevelt. eleanor of course is married to ascii art make in 20 when he's

running for vice president. in 48 he has just become the expert lady and she is not wild about harry and her two sons really don't like him and he tells one of them off in los angeles to his face and in 1960 she 1960 she's not too crazy about jack kennedy either. kennedy will grow on her, but up to that point she loves madly, remember that. i think she comes off fairly well in all those three books, but in 1928 i was surprised that she did not. she was back strangely endless conflict did about franklin's run for the presidency and the betrayal part of the book. she still feels betrayed by franklin's affair with their social secretary in 1970.

she is emotionally very damaged. of course even before her marriage to rank when she comes from a really kind of gothic child. she is the real poor little rich girl, where her father was an alcoholic and her mother was beautiful. i think her beauty was sort of their approach to how an order and her father was absentee, a gigantic, a drunk, he dies falling out of the window at the mistresses house and who does she love? the father. the father but not the mother. and then she sent away to europe. for she is with her grandparents and her grandmother is like

eleanor, you can't read, can you? this is when she's nine. it is amazing that she comes. she catches up very quickly in school in europe, but she's hurt by that. she's hurt by franklin and she's not crazy at all about him becoming president. in 1928, she says "the new york post," a different air posts. but it is a new york post via she says what do i care? what do i care if ben franklin is elected governor? not without that's been defeated. i don't care. now maybe people get misquoted, but if she did -- if she did she wrote the same thing in a private letter to alan r. mark

involved two weeks later interactions in 1932 are she is not part of the campaign. she is missing very key points in the book and even threatening to run off. at that point i'm almost sympathetic to franklin in terms of -- she does help on the right down on the trade with everyone but the washington maturation. she wants to read separately in a car. finally franklin goes no comment you are riding on the train. this is the exaggeration. she goes off to kind of boring before the evacuation where she used to sit in front of the statute of grief because that is

where she went when she found out of the affair of franklin and her social secretary. so she is very damaged goods in a very not with it. she barely shows up to vote election day. she goes back to teach school the night before with lorena hathcock in the car. it is icy. franklin is worried that she's got to go teach some lousy course on the upper east side. franklin both in the morning what i think his secretary, which is another's tory and they are waiting and waiting. you know how it is always. back when the newspapers that people read, you always saw picture in the afternoon edition of candidate showing up early in