so what does that tell you about society at the time? abolitionists such as william blake garrison did not of course not notice uncle tom's cabin. his anti-abolitionist newspaper published a story in january 1853 called "uncle tom's cabin" mania in which it does and i'm paraphrasing such a minute love of this book and folks have really attach themselves to the characters as they had and is taking away from the power to and abolition. folks are getting lost in the human connections they are making with these characters in the drama as it's written. "uncle tom's cabin" was so popular as a stage production that more americans saw the

display then read the book. so also speaking to the popularity, one of the first movies ever made in the united states was a porter andersen film, "uncle tom's cabin" in 1903. so it was going to. people would buy the ticket for a stage production or a film and it was just part of american culture and still is today. you will see here on the poster that supposed to be allies at amherst and harry an enslaved people escaping to join her husband, his father to canada and stopping over in a cabin, excuse me, did our common tavern, hiding there, that they realized that john who have come behind them or they are escaping

out a window. it's very colorful you can feed the anthropology of the image, very rosy cheeks, red lips, heavy makeup. this state to the early 20th century and you could see the specific stage company has chosen to put a photograph of abraham lincoln on one end of a title and harriet beecher stowe herself on the other end of the title ii get this adaptation of the play real authority. there is one story that she went to a production here in hartford in the late 86 days and she left before it was finished because she didn't recognize or care there's. they had dcom go theatrical that they weren't proving the point her novel was supposed to make. because "uncle tom's cabin" was such an international bestseller

it became very popular in britain and england before any other country because great britain had ended slavery and the slave trade in the 1930s. british abolitionist invited over and get the grin to her and not coming from money and her has been in she did not make a lot of money to be thrown into celebrity received money all of a sudden, but i'll have to be taken or invited over and treated as royalty in such a way. she was presented with a number of gifts, one of which is 26 large volume, this is one of them and they are the petition

signed only by women that contain about half a million signatures of women who believed that slavery should end in the united states. the era was to take this petition back as a political music for political purposes to end slavery in the united states. this is the year after a tom's cabin and all of the, half a million signatures collected in a grassroots effort believe by church groups, sewing circles, however women's groups met on stacks of the petition papers that ebay so it includes not only the woman's name, but the name of profession or occupation of the father or has end at a time when most women did not

work outside of the home unless they were unmarried or widow and also their residents. so you will see anyone from school mistresses down to the duchess of southerland. she was presented with this small brooch here as well. this roach is called around a lock of hair that was thomas clarkson and thomas clarkson was a major reddish abolitionist beginning in the 18 century. when stowe goes to england via 30 past, but his widow wishes to present her so she has is made up and on the back with the date of the meeting. she owned a print as well and

folks who really work towards human rights during the time she lived. so a celebrity author who really change the way americans look at slavery. she was the one who gave enslaved people dehumanized killing and didn't understand a lot of ways that enslaved african-americans for people thought of like property. for her to humanize to make people for readers to understand not, this is wrong, the breaking up of human family is morally wrong and unchristian was the bowl she set for herself in showing the bonds of slavery in "uncle tom's cabin."

>> james, i've been waiting for this moment where i can interrogate you. i've known you for a long time given us at the white house and we are all readers and authors here this is a real joy for me because i love your writing. what you put together in "cheney one on one," i spent a weekend thinking i knew everything i needed to know because i worked under him for eight years. what you helped provide is peeling back the curtains of

what you call america's most controversial basement. i wanted to start there. do you think dick cheney as his role as president and anything after the administration, do you think is most controversial statesmen? >> guest: first of all, it's great to be with you also. as i write in the book no one on the right has attracted more of which are all from the left. with the possible exception sewers fill richard nixon. there's reasons for that with a man who stood at or near the pinnacle of power in the watergate up to 9/11 and iraq and beyond. you don't stick around at those levels unless it's really good and really effective and that is wide the left has had such an exception with dick cheney.

you see this backup on the comment today. this interview and reporting of it was wise for it. the worst president of the lifetime and is a joke obviously, but it speaks to dick cheney's extraordinary influence and b., the central role to be occupied in the intellectual universe of barack obama. >> dick cheney is in the left. feedback under their skin for sure. tell me about an interview because having been the press secretary, at the end dick cheney was a reluctant interviewer. you have a chance to spend several hours longer than even he had agreed to meet up in the façade every name. >> guest: well, there is the backs to rehear. as you know some dealings with back when. and i traveled the world with dick dick cheney on the air force one

blue-and-white fleet of airplanes who went to europe together in the middle east situations where you have 10 countries in eight days. and pakistan. the strips i did in 2005 in pakistan as is the custom fox news was supposed to get an interview with the principal, the vice president on the ground somewhere down the track. they took place on the side of a snowy mountain in packets in. she was very upset at the end because she felt that that wasn't right and then comes the schmidt who was running press for vice president cheney at a time team changed things announced they were cutting troops sure it because it was believed the vice president and his role as president of the senate needed to cast a tie-breaking vote in what was then a 50/50 senate and schmidt and the others and would promise you and we won't forget -- we will let anyone speak if you're

going to do this. as soon as the wheels touched on a joint bid sanders, everybody not aimed at james rosen promptly forgot about james risen, scheduled an interview. this did not involve you regrettably. the next time the vice president sat down with fox news was in february of 06 from a very dramatic sit down at the time for the purpose of explaining how, why the vice president had come to shoot his friend in the face and as i sat in my office and watch that i thought to myself, it's going to be aligned time before you sit down with this man. i ran into the party in washington after a joint good-natured living from the vice president about my recent notoriety on the subject and investigation i said i've got a bone to pick with you. i said that pakistani from 2005.

assets are, if if we were to amortize in 2005, we would be up to something like 28 hours of nixon interviews. that turned out to be lunch with just the two of us for two hours where we sketched out the history that dick cheney might look and sound like. in the end we agreed to do six hours, two hours a day for three straight days he sought no control of an editorial and in the set of six hours was 10 hours. >> let's go back to the beginning. one of the things i admired about dick cheney and a lot of people think because i was born in wyoming that i knew that cheney's growing up, but i didn't. i didn't meet him over to the white house i always appreciate what i consider his western sensibility. he talks about growing up out west. i wonder if you could talk about all the people you interviewed and there have been many, do use

the differences about it that are allowed when you did it compare to others on the coast? >> is an important point i think you brought up, which to the extent that dick cheney has been depicted as holding enigmatic, maybe even an essay, who does via my urge easterners. to the eastern theater, the way that westerners like dick cheney taught and come off somehow alien or come up short somehow as if they are being withholding or an amount it. in fact, what has been my experience is exactly what he thinks, that the westerners playing tag, but as a commerce and he amassed one of the most conservative voting records in the house and he knows that

today in the book and says even today. but he had dick cheney be all that talk not only to the opposite side of the aisle but also his own party. not attention seeking, not bomb throwing, but direct. >> one of my things about reagan meetings with the vice president was how he could be very quiet. expected to be a little intimidating when someone is quiet and don't know what he's thinking or doing. i saw an interview where he said he learned when he worked for ford. he learned that it better for the principal not to weigh in in the middle of a discussion when you have a policy meeting with the different staffers are offering their opinion because as soon as the principal says something, that will shut down

conversation. that gave me a different viewpoint about why he kept a lid. it wasn't that he was being weaker then. i think he was listening. >> is a good listener, but he also understands the action sometimes doesn't take place in the interagency debate -- and the rather in the oval office afterwards. also as we noted he is an avid hunter and dick cheney knows his gunpowder. >> the other day i was talking to somebody in preparation for this interview and how much i enjoyed the book because it is very good. he was saying back in the day on capitol hill when the wyoming delegation of cheney, while a consensus with the most powerful delegation in the congress at the time. i don't think a small state like wyoming has had something like that ever since. >> they were probably pretty well lit it up better than most allegations. for 10 years, dick cheney was the sole member of congress from

wyoming. >> could you talk to me about his career is remarkable before the age of 40 in his late dirty as he has his first heart attack. from the age of 19 where he was kind of a screwup, admitted screw up, he is not really knuckle down like his wife was when she was advancing. tell me how does he get from the age of 19 to 34? that trajectory is quite amazing. >> are a few american stories like it. your reference to lynne cheney and her studious this brings up a fund aimed, which is i interviewed her in daycare 2000 for an oral history project i did for the late talk magazine edited by tina brown were they asked in a crash basis to prepare an oral history of dick cheney's wife culminating with his assumption of the best presidency which was just about to happen. lynne cheney, gerald ford,

exclusively devoted to dick cheney. i asked mrs. cheney, i said it's been suggested that the two you are the brains of the operation. is that true? she said i'm the worst at u.s. academic. which was a blinking reference to the vice president undistinguished beginning in terms of his schooling. he actually secured a full scholarship to yale university. for a kid from wyoming. originally born in nebraska, raised in wyoming. he had never been further east in chicago. he had a brief stay at northwestern in high school and one of the things that disappointed about yellow with it was no big sky over his head anymore. the actual physical surrounding and the people fell in with a high spirited group of people as they later came to say.

he tells me it can cheney won a one housing units cause remains that a situation where all four of the bedroom doors opened up onto a common area but decided to use one of the bedrooms and a drink too much and his daddy's collapse and he racked up two duis by the time he was 19 years old, the second which bound the future vice president of the united states they vice president of the united states making up in jail in wyoming. he tells me this was the wake-up call. he didn't have to give up drinking but he knew he had to set his pathway. the font data vl, but not to wyoming, go to powerline has a lineman for the county and is paid in some way to the university of wyoming. 96 bucks a semester at the time and when i'm paying my own way and invested in it in every sense of the word. i'm a good student and he got straight a's. there is succession of internships and visits to the

capital, he eventually found himself working for a congressman who later went to work in the nixon administration and don rumsfeld. that is the power by the time you're 34 you mentioned this guy who added 19 been waking up in a jail in wyoming was the chief of staff to the president of the united states. it really is a remarkable story. >> did he formed his political ideology before yale or after when he comes back? >> i think as of his time at d.o.t. hadn't really devoted too much thought to politics at all. i think that he probably shared some of the ingrained there but it is of westerners and his father is a matter of fact worked for the soil conservation service which is a federal agent dave. so he didn't start out with hostility to this day. >> she spent her career working for the federal government. >> that is right.

i think his interest in politics dirty to accelerate once he met lynne cheney in high school and throughout college and after college he majored in political scared as a matter of fact, the only given half i regret that i heard dick cheney under in 10 hours across three days of interfering had nothing to do with 9/11 or iraq or afghanistan for interrogation or detention of campaign elections are any of those things. he said he wishes that a political science when he was in college that he had studied history because he's a deep lover of his eerie and a grave discipline of history. all those books he has read. biography, military history. >> trying to catch up? >> not assuredly. he said he studied history because this is someone again who is at or near the center of power for 40 years. he said government really is not

a science. it is art. it is the application of lessons from history and contemporary problems. the only real regret i heard is that he had been a system. >> that part of the book struck me because i work truscott, when he did his collection, things that matter. when he was asked to become a political pundit or a columnist one day, what should i study in journalism school? they said don't go to journalism school. you should study history. the vice president to this day sounds like reading history that and see the parallel. he talks a lot about martial. >> the interesting thing about that is i sense a touch of despair in dick cheney by virtue of the fact it's getting a bit harder given the huge circumstances of the 21st century to find useful lessons from the past to be applied

today because of the unique constellation of problems with race, not only the nuclear age, the unique 21st century features such as factories, asymmetric warfare is the one. >> that copy because we are talking a lot about how to deal with lone wolf terrorists who might be radicalized by the internet and using encryption devices in order to communicate. if you are looking to try to guide you, there is very little except for being sure to act and be install worth and all of those things. that i thought was very astute and keen. >> the fact is even when we set aside domestic cats like we saw in san bernardino, when we become embroiled in overseas, and again we have asymmetric warfare against air force is and i think the vice president would

agree the law shouldn't speak for them. they demonstrate that we can decisively when asymmetric war. perhaps it's a feature of asymmetric warfare. >> one of the reasons he is controversial is because after 9/11 the country after intelligence community some very difficult things in order to help protect us. i know he doesn't have regrets. does he know how controversial he is and doesn't bother him -- and mark >> vsnl. he knows. the very last question asked at the end of 10 hours we spent three days together. i finally allowed the words darth vader to escape and i asked him if he believed that caricature of him is going to prevail in historical memory of him such that he is popularly are widely misunderstood. he said in a sense that he feels very grateful and privilege to have taken part in the many

historic event and that he doesn't feel sorry for himself by the way people view him and generally doesn't spend a lot of time. >> is a part of the book where he talks about on page nine in your introduction, the question you ask is is it fair to say that your influence on bush's decision-making wind in the second term? i really appreciated his answer because i thought it showed such humility that by the time there is a second term a president is more surefooted and that his six. that he brought to the table was maybe more necessary in the first term in second term. is that how you took that? >> yes, it raises a subsequent question which is here now then if we accept the president to win a second term has greater confidence in foreign policy and national security decision making. why should the greater

confidence on the part of the president have led him to reject the council more frequently rather than accept it even more frequently. he said a massive nobody ever gave me any guarantees to do what i wanted to do. the string between them can be overstated. that is most distinctly evidenced in your dispute over scooter libby. for example as its president points out, he and the president were on the same page with the surge in iraq concerned, even though quite strikingly dick cheney and donald rumsfeld and dick cheney and the joint chiefs of staff were not on the same page about whether there should be a surge or not and they prevailed with president bush. >> the white house is a lonely place at the time. the president had to convince many people in his cabinet. he's pretty open about different that opinion the secretary condoleezza rice. i don't see it as personal.

>> maladministration there will be conflicts of personality, conflict of ideology, interagency disputes and it actually is a healthy part of the process. there's no question about the dick cheney clashed with condoleezza rice and mouse though: powell. the difference in the book is that with condoleezza rice, he never felt it became personal. they still have a cordial relationship today. with paola to become personal and there's a relationship today. i said democrat on cheney's part but it turned out that way. the irony of the decade earlier when cheney was defense secretary powell was the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the two have served quite well together helping lead the country to victory in the gulf war. a decade later the relationship can survive. >> does he suggest any of the first gulf war?

>> absolutely not. he rightly regards this as perhaps one of the last very clear-cut victories for the united states military and it wasn't fully ordained would be so. one of the things he talks about in the book as a culture within the top echelon of the pentagon in 1990 were so many officers had cut their teeth during vietnam and the civilian leadership didn't quite back up the way it should have. so there is great hesitation to act on the part of the military amongst the senior rate and one of the things that cheney and george h.w. bush was assuring military officers bear men in the field would have the support they needed from the civilian leadership. >> what about and they keep themselves -- they keep their families a little bit at a desk and spirit that is true but paul

ryan. a lot of people don't know they are kids, that they have already talked about is is married. and not only the campaign and it was admired how close he is to his daughters and doesn't talk about that in the book? >> again, that may be their western roots in some sense. liz cheney as you know served in the bush cheney administration and the state department in a very important role which handles the middle east. she has been a co-author on two of his books, his memoir and derives comfort from having

family the source of anguish for them that occasionally differences of opinion and they have seeped out into public view. one of the most personal subjects we touch on in "cheney one on one" is his daughter mary's decision to come out to him in an airport. this is fascinating because i knew it be sensitive to act about it. it had been quite improperly campaign issue in 2004 quite improperly. but in his own memoir, which he titled in my time of personal and political memoir. so he's telling us he's writing a personal memoir. i said there's only two things in the whole book about the moment when your daughter comes out to you. he tells you this is new is on simply the effect you love her

and whatever makes her happy makes you happy and that is fine. i said that seem to me to be a place of great equanimity with this. i read between the lines this wasn't exactly a surprise to you and that somehow in thinking about it before that moment made your way to this place where you could respond as you did. a lot of parents confronted with such news might not be enough plays. but if i switch you have to get to that place that they could respond as you did. he first made it clear he had written advice for parents and a children, but he did then tell me it was a surprise when she came out to him. it wasn't something we all kind of knew about and didn't talk about. i found that striking because even in the 80s when the discussion was a nice prominent in everyday life as it is today, chances are if your daughter is a unit have some inkling of that. the fact that he really didn't

strikes me that he was at that time someone who is deeply, deeply immersed in his career. also in the book he does say some rain at the time in my life where i thought how well you did was a direct function of how many hours he put into it and how many cups of coffee you drink while doing it. he was put in a lot of hours into his right and drinking a lot of cups of coffee is such that he was surprised. >> also forget touch a little bit on his health because this is a person who runs -- has an amazing career in politics and another in the dirt gets recruited back to politics. as far as i know, he never intended to be the vice president of the united states kerry talks about the u.s.a. to be the vice presidents to be the search committee. >> because dick cheney led the search committee for the vice

presidential nominee and wound up as the nominee, a lot of people have seen fit to describe some machiavellian purpose to dick cheney in that matter. the fact is that george w. bush backs them up he says no before the third try. but to go back to your question, which was then about his health. so you know, in addition to having this truly singular political career over four decades, this man has exercised tremendoutremendou s impact on the way we live our lives as americans today, particularly after 9/11. ..

i always knew that the cheney's were very generous people, but they don't talk about it. one of the things i knew they did was provide the heart defibrillators to all of the places of worship in washington dc. no one ever knew about that and i always felt he was more generous than anyone gets him credit for being. >> guest: you mentioned his business career and he was ceo of halliburton and that has given rise to just decades now of completely baseless speculation about the vice

president having been a profiteer somehow off of the decision to go to war and its worth point out that the most prosecutorial book about dick cheney was published i think in 2009 by a washington journalist. is the kind of book that takes every sequel to the offense and draws the most kind of darkened conclusion about cheney's role in each matarazzo proceeds. it's a well reported book, but it's very tendentious and even martin gelman in angler, came to the conclusion after a vast review of the man's career that there is no reason to ever think-- there is no evidence to support the idea that dick cheney ever ever did anything in his political career to profit and as a matter of fact, take a substantial loss to leave halliburton go back in the government. >> host: you talk to him and maybe you could explain his decision that has been quite

different from president george w bush in the post- presidency to be vocal and to be a critic of the successor. why does he do that? >> guest: i think he is a fighter by nature. but, also he is in a setting where the man he served who was at the top of the ticket and top of the hierarchy in the white house has followed his own father's admirable practice of assists dating from criticism from their successor, so that leads dick cheney to venture into the arena time again to serve as the chief defender as the bush cheney legacy. it is not simply the case that barack obama has in some cases deviated sharply from policies of the bush cheney administration. he has continually asserted that the problems he faces as commander-in-chief are byproducts of the bush and cheney decision and so that

calls out for a defense from someone in that administration. cheney knows he carries unique gravitas, that was the word bandied about in 2000 when he was brought on the ticket in the first place, so i think he feels compliment role. >> host: in talking with him, what do you think he wants his legacy to be or does he not worry about it? >> guest: i got good insight into this the other day. i had a privilege of a-- attending the unveiling of dick cheney's official marble bust of the capital. that was attended by vice president biden, former president george w. bush, the speaker of the house in the senate majority leader and others and cheney spoke last after the blast, which is a pretty good likeness, had been unveiled. excuse me. at the end of his remarks, cheney said if anyone walking through the statutory call and the capitol grounds should ever pause to linger in front of this

bust of me for more than five seconds i would hope they would come away knowing at least this much, that here was a believer in the united states of america. so, that, i think, is the surest indication of how he wishes to be viewed in history. >> host: this he worry about his legacy? >> >> guest: know. one of the reasons he has been so effective over the years is because he never had his index finger to the wind. he is never a politician who will change his views just because suddenly public opinion has shifted and is politically convenient for him to do so. >> host: loyalty was on important part of any administration and and of course in the best cheney white house it was prized and wanting us about politicians is if you see people who have worked for them for decades you know that there is a strong amount of loyalty there and loyalty goes both ways. did you talk to anyone outside that had worked for him over the years before you talk to him for

this book? >> guest: i just find a whole bunch of books for someone who bought early two of them. >> host: very nice. >> guest: that is a model to follow. this is a former staffer of cheney's and one of four people who were called the oldest staff, which is to say they worked for dick cheney in the house of representatives in the department of defense and the office of the vice president. i think there are four of those people left today and he does inspire great loyalty among his staff, but in terms of the relationship between him and george w. bush and you talk about how much loyalty is prized by the president of the united states, in cheney one-on-one, cheney tells me that the quote and this is the word he used, central to his relationship with the george w. bush was the fact that cheney had forsworn any attempt at running for the presidency himself, such that the president when he received advice from dick cheney always understood that it was being proffered without one i cast on

how it may or may not help dick cheney four years later and i will caucuses and that was important to george w. bush. >> host: had cheney cnn producer ministrations ministrations? >> guest: yes, he said most reasons people take the job is because he-- they think it will give them a leg up on the nomination sometime down the road and it was central to his relationship with george w bush that bush never had to worry about a political tinge to the advice that dick cheney would give him. >> host: how much did watergate affect his thinking? >> guest: more than he understood and i think one of the aspects of our interview he came away understanding himself a bit better was how profoundly watergate shaped his thinking and his future career. dick cheney made his personal project when he was vice president to do everything he could to wear store the powers of the presidency of the executive that he saw having been improperly eroded during vietnam and watergate. this took concrete form just--

such as the war power act and varies other encroachments by congress on to the powers of the executive and whether it was his legal posture in the fight over the notes from his energy committee or war powers after 911, or other areas of policy, dick cheney always approached it from the point of view that the executive has to be strengthened , has to be restored for the kinds of crises and challenges that he and george w. bush were facing. >> host: what about the day of 911? i always am interested to hear all of the different viewpoints of the people that were there living in new york. i met a lot of people who were here that day, one of my friends owned a bar at the time and stay open continuously for several days just to make sure that everyone had with a needed, but back at the white house the president of the united states

is traveling and cheney as they are in the situation room. what did he tell you about that? >> guest: in "cheney one on one" he really narrates his day of 911 almost by a minute by minute basis with me as really riveting. we have to understand that all of us as americans shared in 911 in some way or another. my parents were locked out of their apartment building here in manhattan. we all felt a sense of grief, shock, anxiety. we felt terrified. but, only one american that day had it on his shoulders to run the federal government in these hours of crisis while president bush was hopscotching across the country looking for a secure place to land and that was dick cheney. he tells in the book how he is sitting in his office, vice president of the united states, a sunniest tuesday and the secret service agent popped into his office and lifted him out of his chair, drag them out of his

office down to the presidential emergency operation center, which is this bunker below the white house. cheney was stunned and said the senior staff was stunned and in a very interesting phrase in describing this he said we all felt a sense of shock and all, which, of course. is a phrase ordinarily associated with the iraq war. he is seen weapons get passed around, communication facilities in that bunker, which works establish in world war ii are not up to 21st century scratch they have a ton of things on their hands like trying to ground all of the flights in the air right now becomes-- arms round his thing and their operating under terrible conditions such they are getting false reports about pipe bombs went off at the state department, they are being six planes not for planes involved and so on. for cheney, what you can immediately and helped him assume that burden and if you look at the photographs that were taken in the bunker that day, there are important people they're like condoleezza rice, national security advisor at the

time, senior adviser to the president, but the body language and the photographs is unmistakable that the lead person in the room, the undisputed authority is dick cheney and what kicked in for him was classified training that he is perceived as a congressman in the house gop leadership activities when it was contemplated that the united states might say something like an all-out nuclear exchange with the soviet union. he took classified training sessions and something called continuity of government. the first precept of which when you want to keep the continuity of the government and keep the government operating in a crisis atmosphere is to preserve the line of succession. the president to the vice president to the speaker of the house, so the first piece of advice that dick cheney gives don't-- george w. bush on 911 and he tells me the book, the president didn't like it, resisted it, all to really dick cheney was stay out of washington, don't come back here until we know what we are dealing with. >> host: some people when they hear that they think it's

because dick cheney wanted to assume the power of the day and what you are explaining is that no, he was wanted to make sure that we had a president to look to. >> guest: that's right he kept in close contact as best permitted with the president at all points. the most sensitive things you can ask dick cheney about and i went into some detail with him on this is the shootdown order of 911. this is something that dictate-- i don't think anyone even asked him about since 911 with the exception of the commissioners on the 911 commission. he conveyed an order to the secretary of defense, donald rumsfeld, in those early hours authorizing, instructing the military to shoot down the airline that eventually crashed in shanksville, pennsylvania, which was thought to be headed for the white house and there is a tape recording of that conversation and it's fairly stunned donald rumsfeld can be heard saying on his authority, dick because after all the vice

president does not stand in the military chain of command and he tells them from the president, president of the united states gave him that authority on an earlier bone call and in the problem is the eight sets of official logs kept of the principal discussions in that horrific day, none of them record in the appropriate timeline, no point in the chronology any such conversation between george w. bush and dick cheney and in an interview in 2001, cheney finally shifted his story and i was determined to ask you about it. i said to him, sir, do you understand why he even people who are supporters of your have a problem with this because it places you in what is for dick cheney on unusual position which is asserting something for poor which there is no evidentiary record and he said, no. there is the one time where he really gave me the cheney treatment. he said, there has been confusion and we have never been able to pin down all of the calls in the exact times, but

this was one of the reasons why he said the president and i were interviewed jointly by the 911 commission, which was a unique arrangement. >> host: fast-forward to iraq and what does he say about the false accusation that he lied or that he was complacent in a lie about the beauty intelligence? >> guest: one of the harshest assessments of dick cheney's role in the run-up to the iraq war and his relationship to the intelligence surrounding wmd came with condoleezza rice and her memoir. we had staggered on conversations these three days such as the left-- last they would be reserved for 911, records of the night called cheney addresses his critics in history and i simply read to him some of the harshest things written about him by journalist, intellectuals, historians that even some of his former colleagues and he disputed one, condoleezza rice said about his handling of classified intelligence and wmd.

but, he went on to respond in kind and target some great length about an instance where he felt condoleezza rice had mishandled classified intelligence and it's all in the book, but he also wants people be reminded of the work of the silberman robb commission, which was the blue ribbon panel that president bush established i think in 2004, to investigate how the intelligence community had got it so wrong about wmd stockpiles in iraq and that report concluded that there was not a single instance where senior policymakers had pressured intelligence analysts in the run-up to the iraq war to come up with a wry conclusion on a rack and that's a very important conclusion of this blue-ribbon panel. bipartisan in-- and respected. i think it's fair to contrast conclusions of the rob silverman panel with what we see going on today where we have the pentagon inspector general actively investigating claims by up to 50

intelligence analysts that their intelligence reporting and analysis on isis in our effort against isis has been routinely sanitize on its way up the chain of command to the president. that is a far more serious and apparently systemic problem that manipulation of intelligence of the national security area then i think anything we saw in the bush cheney era. >> host: one of the things that both bush and cheney were determined not to do was to blame the intelligence community for anything, which i think was the right thing to do, but as you talk about how they decided to stand in front of that bus for them. >> guest: well, he didn't put it in those terms, but-- >> host: but, he's not a press secretary. >> guest: he's a westerner. although, you are as well. >> host: yes. >> guest: one of the things i did with cheney was on day two, i was determined we sued-- should spend some time talking about the intelligence community, the intelligence

product because not only is dick cheney famously associated with the intelligence failures surrounding a rack and wmd, as a senior policymaker, but he is probably one of the longest running american intelligence print-- product ever. his first-class white intelligence briefing began when he was deputy chief of staff to gerald ford in the 1970s and continued for the next 35 years and i asked him specifically was there a point along the way where you could observe that intelligence product became politicized to read we constantly hear about the politicization of intelligence, was there an error or episode where that came into being and he talked about the evolution of the intelligence community and the product he had the opportunity to review for so long and so it changed when the world changed, after the fall of the soviet union that intelligence community found it was good at counting missile silos and those sorts of things, but not attracting nonstate

actors using disposable cell phones. when we did talk also about the eight months before the 911 attacks and the claims by richard clarke and others that he warnings were overlooked by bush and cheney, one of the things he said was there was no actual intelligence that such an attack would occur. at the time he asked how was the intelligence community configured, how we people did they have on the problem of al qaeda, for example. so, we talked a great lengths about his consumption of intelligence products and the reverence in which he holds the men and women, the patriots who work in that field. >> host: and vice versa, i think. switching gears, what do you think or did he talk about-- what brings dick cheney joy? >> guest: his grandchildren. there were times when we were in between tapings and he would get an update from someone either

his wife or one of his assistants saying that the had been delivered to the granddaughter and he would say, did she like it and he wanted to know. i would say that he is very involved with his grandchildren. >> host: i know one of them is involved-- one of the girls is involved in the local rodeo scene and he is the driver. >> guest: yeah, he has to like hitch the horse in this vehicle that carries the horse-- >> host: trailer. >> guest: yes, thank you. do i come off as a new yorker we won staten island. that would be a horse trailer. >> guest: trailer, mr. cheney. he drives with that hitched up to his truck and sometimes i think from washington to wyoming i think as we talk about early he is a voracious reader and there is probably an aspect of dick cheney that the likes being in the arena from time to time,

but i think he's made his peace with his legacy. >> host: were there some favorite behind the scenes personal stories that he told you that you liked? >> guest: will, just things that happen in course of the taping. one of my chief aims in writing this book, dana, was to rescue this man from character, the caricature of darth vader because he's too important that. here's a man that has had this profound impact on the way we have lived as americans and to caricature him is to do ages-- disservice to everyone who needs to understand his influence and the way his mind works. there was several hours during the 10 hours we spent together where he has this gorgeous yellow lab named nelson, who sat in on the floor and the recording that animals heavy panties can be heard and at one point this menacing figure, this darth vader character rises from the chair and announces that we have to pause the recorded because quote i get to-- got to

get my dog off to doggie daycare >> host: i love that part. did you edit any of that out next i thought that was hilarious that he would take his dog to doggie daycare at no one in america would believe it. >> guest: and just to use the word doggie daycare, the word doggie alone. he is a real flesh and blood person. he enjoys a new-- good joke. he will have a drink with you. you know, at the initial brunch where we sketch this out we were at a steakhouse in northern virginia and mindful of his epic cardiac profile when he sat down he said let's be clear at the outset as vice president i will be ordering a stake on the side of that table and it will be cooked in butter and he said eat what you want and he had a salad with pieces of salmon on top of it. >> host: do you feel bad about that? >> guest: a confession of sorts occurring here. one stray mentioned by me from gerald ford launched him into a

15 missed it-- of that ford aircraft carriers in the new suspension systems they have got he delved into the technical mechanics and i had to confess to be lost, but struck by how careless he was and how engaging he can be. you know, he does have a sense of humor, but again it's this clip western laconic dry wit and sometimes his eyes will to you as much as his mouth does. >> host: i always felt like he was looking out for me and i think-- people might not understand what, i mean, and maybe it is a westerner thing, but my grandfather-- i did not growing up-- grew up knowing the cheney's. my family is from the other side of the state in the black hills closer to mount rushmore in south dakota, but my grandfather who is very important to me in my life with a republican county commissioner. growing up in wyoming, like everyone is republican for the most part, so when you leave and

for the first time if you go east of the mississippi your eyes are awakened to a different line of thinking and thought, so when i get to the white house and i am junior bird man, deputy press secretary and fairly intimidated, but put a brave face on it and i will never forget dick cheney in a meeting turn to me and said, i would love to hear more about your ranch. it's in western county, right and when the highway 16, which is where you get a great burger in wyoming and from there i just don't like i had a really good personal relationship with him and i don't think he knows that. >> guest: well, we will circulate. >> host: we will let him know. i think there is a reverence for dick cheney in conservative circles that only maybe now is starting to service and people are willing to even say, yes, i am a fan of dick cheney and i'm not afraid to announce it. >> guest: that is true also, he

is regularly doing fundraisers and headlining fundraisers were like the national republican campaign committee and so on. again, the frequency with which barack obama sometimes unsolicited invokes dick cheney. there was a time where in june where the president went on the daily show to sort of pay his respects to the outgoing host jon stewart and was trying to sell the around nuclear deal and he said i think folks have the idea that if only dick cheney had been sitting there we would've got a better deal and that's great. i asked josh earnest the white house press secretary, why did he bring up dick cheney unsolicited, does he see himself as the anti- dick cheney and of course josh says he does not think that is how the president would characterize himself, but i do think obama sees himself as kind of delivered by providence to the oval office to undo the work of dick cheney in large measure and it has been dick cheney who has been his chief

critic in the obama era. there is a period in a memorable occasion in may, 2009, where the two men gave dueling speeches on national security subject carried live with a split screen effect that served in a way that president obama could not have been pleased by to assert a purity between them. >> host: i remember that while. you gave an interview and i would wonder if you could talk more about it here, which is some thing i'm interested in, why should millennial's care about dick cheney and learning about him? >> host: outside of the caricatures c-2 we will assume and it may not be a safe assumption that students, millennial students are receiving a kind of fair and balanced portrait of people like george bush and dick cheney and not a caricature, but the answer , simple answer and brought answer his history always matters. you cannot know where you are going unless you first know where you have been. so, that is one broad stroke, but specifically george w. bush

and dick cheney have such consequential presidencies and that affect with which are still being felt. perhaps, not as profound as the two men would like. they feel like barack obama has determinedly undone a lot of the good work they did and they think the current status in iraq is attributable not to the original invasion of iraq in 2003, but to the failure of the current president to hold the line on some of the policies such as the surge in the withdrawn the american troops and so on. so, if you care about the middle east as it exists today and how the threats from the middle east rcb into our country as the resident in san bernardino know so well, then you will want to read "cheney one on one" and learn how the line of this very influential man really worked. >> host: what about his reputation overseas especially with world leaders overseas. >> guest: dick cheney is still in contact with a lot of world leaders overseas and sell

travels to the middle east from time to time. i think especially in the middle east like saudi arabia, jordan, egypt, cutter, dick cheney is still very well regarded and seen as a kind of leader that those allies wish were still in power. >> host: this interview originally ran in playboy magazine, which i know most people pick up for the articles, of course. it packed a big punch. were you surprised at the reaction? >> guest: a bit. very pleased by a. when i left his house for the last of the three days he gave me very high praise. i said him i hope you enjoyed this and he said it was time well spent, which in cheney speak is good and at that moment i had on my hands 80000 word transcript, which is what this book is. it is the transcripts of art 10

hours of long history covering his entire life with an overview by me. i took a small fraction, about seven to 8000 words from different parts of the interview and published it as a playboy interview with dick cheney. the playboy interview is one of the most venerated journalistic formats in years. you had jimmy carter, fidel castro, martin luther king, the beatles, founders of google and we can go on and on and we're not even taking about the stars and the comedians. playboy was very pleased to have this. they even created a special leather bound edition of that issue, which was completely just brown with gold embossed lettering with dick cheney and it's very rare that they do that. playboy has a department that tablets have frequently as content is picked up another media. they tabulated that the playboy interview with dick cheney contacted by james rosen had picked up