washington journal continues. or, -- craighirley shirley, the author of "last act: the final years and emerging legacy of ronald reagan >> good morning america's miss. >> you have written several books on president reagan. several books on president reagan. what makes this book different? were: the first two books about his pivotal campaign from 1976 to 1980. eventually, i am going to do a

book on the 1984 campaign. hisne had written about post-presidency and there are a lot of different scholarship associated with postpresidential life and presidential death. of course, jim wrote "manhunt." manchester wrote "death of a president." areas presidents over time have had written about their passing or their post presidencies. monticello," but no one has written a book about reagan's post-presidency. the idea came from one of my sons. when he was 11 years old, he was sitting in a kitchen highlighting big binders of material i got from the reagan library. every time reagan's name appeared, he would highlight it for me. he asked me if anyone had ever

done a book about rake and his presidency? that was the beginning. host: what do you focus on specifically as far as the president's post-presidency? guest: i use the funeral as the baseline and i do flashbacks and flashforwards. it is really the seven days each chapter represents one day, inhough there are other days other chapters as well. i do a lot of flashbacks to the last seven years of his presidency, retirement, and obviously, alzheimer's. host: if there is a main message of the legacy, what would that be? that -- iwould be don't know if it is the beginning of the dichotomy of society or a continuation. it is probably both in a way. for the entire week of his were very,e elites

very rough on ronald reagan both personally and professionally in terms of his legacy. paul krugman from the "new york times," wrote there was no economic recovery when in fact 19 million jobs were created. the washington post criticized the state of his marriage and whether or not he proposed to other women. the point is that the elite media and elite academia were very, very rough on reagan, but the american people thought otherwise. there was a tremendous outpouring that rivaled john kennedy's and franklin roosevelt's admiration when he passed away. in simi valley, when he first lady, not in state, but at the library. the presidential library -- over 100,000 people in less than two days came to pay their respects and he lay in state here and

well over 100,000 people came to pay their percent -- there respects. hundreds of thousands of people turned out. just common, everyday people turned out along the highway. they had to shut it down. there was a tremendous upcoming of a american people. host: a clear pattern was emerging after people were skeptical. he was a good president and did our country great. that was represented of literally thousands of people , wroteher showed up their newspapers, called up the networks. every time the network beard off off on being harsh on

reagan, the phone lines would gear up. ronald reagan biographer craig shirley joining us. if you want to ask a question -- how did reagan approached this idea of shaking his legacy? itst: he very much resisted he wants told luke cannon, who was the official reagan biographer, he has written five cannonc books on reagan, asked reagan about his legacy, and he resisted. he said the american people decide that. i did my job. i am proud of my job. i am happy with the job i did. as far as the legacy, not to say he wasn't interested on how

people thought of him because he did write his autobiography on his post-presidency because like churchill -- turtle one said that history is going to be good to me so i intend to write it. i think reagan won it to frame how history just him as well. he wrote his own autobiography. role didw much of a nephew reagan play in the legacy? host: tremendous. you cannot be married over 50 years. someone must describe nancy -- he used to say, she would stay up on end much a an apple what he slept. she worried about how people perceive him and treated him. his decisions as president when it back to the screen actors guild. she took an active interest in not just the life, but also the

times of ronald reagan. host: not just his image, but policy decisions as well? guest: she was not involved in policy decisions. she had her office on the east wing. he had his office of the west wing. there is a lot of pathology that she was the palace guard and approved people that entered his office. that was absolutely not true. she said, she could. she slept next to the president of the united states. she didn't get involved with policy. they had a happy marriage and the each new what the other was responsible for. book,and so, writing the him leaving office in dealing with alzheimer's. about alzheimer's. what was the initial reaction of the reagan's family and the president himself when he was diagnosed with it? guest: the family was devastated with it. they had gone to the mayo clinic

each year like clockwork for years to be tested both psychologically and physiologically. he passed every test with flying colors every year. alzheimer's testing, as i understand is memorization, series of numbers and colors. 1994, they until spring of 1994, when he was already six years out of office, more thanhowed to be eight in forgetfulness. he was told in the first week of november, mrs. reagan already knew, of course she was devastated. it was a death sentence. you are being told you're going to die. i think we can get up in the morning, pedro, as part of our ability to go forward is the unknown of one we are going to pass so we get up each day knowing today we are going to do

this or that or whatever. and you are told to have alzheimer's, you know you have a finite amount of time left. obviously, mrs. reagan was devastated. doctors, took the it in, understood it completely, and then he went and sat down and started writing a letter. his chief of staff, fred ryan, said mr. president, what are you doing? better telluess i the american people. that was a letter that was released in november of 1994 announcing his alzheimer's and did it with bravery and conviction and humility, and very much his christian spirit is throughout the letter. host: and some of the lines he wrote, this promotes greater awareness and promote a clear understanding who are affected

by it. it will begin a journey that will be into the sunset of my life. hostguest: yes. it is. reagan. he is thinking of other people, not himself. he is talking about the future of america which is bright. he is also expressing a lot of concern about what the affliction does to families come also his own family, including nancy about the slow descent into alzheimer's. host: first call for you comes from providence, rhode island. this is jack, for biographer craig shirley, the author of "last act: the final years and emerging legacy of ronald reagan ." jack, good morning, you are on. caller: good morning to you, pedro. merry christmas to everybody there. the reason why i am calling. i am a fan, ok? realize, yeah,o

the media elites detested ronald reagan. supporters of public and establishment. what bothered me was george w. bush during the primary season took ronald reagan but to the end before he pretty much quit and ronald reagan was beating him decisively. that bothers me a lot. people don't talk about that. secondly, here is a key question i want to ask. , i, a highly intelligent hedge fund or. i will tell you why. his book about killing reagan that he really doesn't really emphasize his greatness as president when confronting the soviet union and actually defeating them by going on an offensive posture against them. the only administration to do that. because he really is a fan and

he tries to hide this. host: gotcha, jack. guest: as far as george bush, he is referring to the 1980 contest. reagan -- we don't live in a system where you inherent the presidency. have to compete for it. every bush thought he had right to compete for the nomination. i'm sure reagan would have agreed. he fought tenaciously for it. fori think it speaks well both ronald reagan and george bush than ronald reagan selected george bush's running mate. he served loyally for eight years. reagan gave him a lot more responsibility than most of their vice president got from their presidents. we have an office and the west wing, which was a new phenomenon in american politics. by ronald andd nephew reagan to give the eulogy at the national cathedral.

what started off as a political rivalry, and sometimes was fought far -- toughly between bush and reagan. became very good friends, but very respectful of each other. and george put -- and george bush said in his eulogy, i -- i learnedthan more from ronald reagan about politics. that is another issue. i can explain. the reagan have their own privacy. they did not dine together. reagan and bush had lunch together every thursday without fail. reagan wrote a number of notes when he was leaving office to incoming president bush, and made reference of missing thursday lunch. there was a great deal -- in

some ways, pedro, they were closer personally than any other president and vice president in american history. host: dave up next. hello? caller: good morning. merry christmas. premise a widely held that i think the media has obama propagate that inherited the worst receipts -- the worst recession since the great depression. i meant economics buff and i remember reagan's first term in office. the unemployment rate reached a %.int a percent -- 8.8 the economic recovery under asgan was twice as strong it's been under president obama. the gross domestic product root

is 4% compared to top 2%. but as many jobs created. i can only think of one reason reagan'sand that is economic policies were the exact of hise, not only predecessor, jimmy carter, but of our current president. i know that sometimes people , or to ignore the facts reinvent the facts or political or ideological reasons, but facts are stubborn things, and in this case, i think the facts before themselves quite clearly. that was dave in california mr. shirley. guest: the color miss a very good point. reagan inherited an economy that was negative growth. 7.5% andent was res climbing. jobs were being eliminated from the economy. also --f that, he

economic textbooks say what is impossible, a shrinking economy. when the economy contracts, you go into a deflationary cycle. we had rising prices of falling jobs. he said that was impossible. on top of that, and possibly high interest rates which were 19%, 20%. you have double interest rates and unemployment rising faster. reagan was confronted with the worst economic calamity since the depression. the color was right. he brought inflation down to less than 5%. he brought interest rates down to 7.5%. much more tolerable levels. he created 19 million new jobs. office, reagan was

divided for creating federal deficits, but it was falling the last two years of his presidency. ,n the supply side, tax cuts tech monetary policy, in fact, worked and created probably the greatest economic expansion in american history because 19 million jobs created over a series of short years actually. untilct, it did not stop the 30 year of george bush's administration. host: director, california. william, hello. good morning, especially on this special day of the year. people never talk about the one thing that i am going to say. i have neither been for or post to reagan. everyone always talked about how great reagan was. great smile, great person. one thing he did that really burns my whatever is that he

broke the air traffic controllers union and no one wants to talk about that. have your guest talk about that. have a nice christmas. host: talk about why this still resonates. guest: it was such a moment his decision. host: by the way, merry christmas, caller. i had a friend that work in eureka, california. aner hanover was close to an aid to reagan. guest: we needed a safe and secure in transportation system both commercially and otherwise. that endorsed reagan, broke the law because they had a signed contract. they had to report to work. they broke the law when they went on strike and reagan was

not going to tolerate it. they gave them a certain amount of time to report back to work, and they didn't, so he quite justifiably, fired them. --lace them with new trent replaced them with new air traffic controllers. there is a mythology that the -- probably somehow two they were paying attention to what reagan did with the unions. i don't know if they got into deep analysis. but george schultz who was reagan's secretary of defense, clearly, this was an intimidating factor to the soviets. the reagan's toughest in dealing with air traffic controllers. host: had you think the media react as far as the reagan legacy to his ending the cold war? guest: i don't think reagan gotten any credit. i don't think he ended the cold

war, i think he won the cold war. the soviets gained ground from the end of world war i, they gained ground against every american president up until 1981. no soviet leader ever willingly gave up our. -- gave up power. the mythology is he sent them into oblivion, which is only partially true. he used all the powers of the presidency. he used the bleak pulpit to bul pulpitoviets -- to break the soviets. he formed a vital pact with pope john paul ii and margaret thatcher in presenting a united front to the soviet threat. he used many many powers at his disposal. the power to increase

defense spending. he used all of that to break down the soviet union. when the berlin wall was coming down, he was a few years out of office, it happened during the first president george bush is presidency. he went on nightline and said he knew it would happen. he just enough think it would happen so soon. elroy for grass -- guest. caller: i want to ask this question. i used to be an administrator under the bush ministration. on thet very educated reagan administration. i do know a little bit about him. i know some history. why under himy under his economics didn't we

put money where it belongs? i did not see that on c-span2 when i called. he didn't redistribute wealth. host: ok. we will let our guest respond. guest: ronald reagan used to believe that the best welfare check was a paycheck every two weeks. he believed a growing economy was the best way to lift people out of poverty. he did the statistical analysis of the 1980's and showed that poverty shrunk. wealthy grew larger. also instituted grants. instead of the federal government determining how you spend money, the state and local level would just give it back to the local municipalities to decide how to spend it. he very much believed and federalism. statess the power of the

and less power in washington. he put that into practice. because of his previous history as a democrat, did he ever show popular tendencies towards tolerance? very much so. guest: he came out of the populist midwest. it came out of anti-concentrations of power. he was always suspicious of it -- big corporations. what he announced when he would take on gerald ford, he announced that in no washington he specifically mentioned big corporations as part of the problem in washington. big labor, big government. he believed that all concentrations of power were inherently dangerous. they could lead to the repression of personal freedom. he was very much infused with a

populist anti-washington, anti-concentration of power worldview. host: how did that work with republicans in congress? a lot of new ones were coming in. how did that relate to republicans? guest: most new republicans came in, newt gingrich is a great --mple, he and bob michael bob michael was less enthusiastic. he was a good guy. a good minority leader. o'neill. golf with tip and jackays, gingrich camp and bob walker and a couple other young firebrand members did the heavy lifting on capitol hill and got votes lined up for ronald reagan. he created a new republican party because with the republicans rising up in the late 70's and early 80's, they had a different worldview than

the republicans of the new deal era. democrat line. go ahead. you are on. caller: hello. to hear all this lauding of surprise side reaganomics -- wasn't that the beginning -- maybe it was the afterwards, it seems to me that was the beginning of the state we have now with a tremendous imbalance of money in the bank. 1% is the billing her class. they have always capital gains tax reductions. didn't start their? when reagan took office, what the capital gains was, and has it gotten flat down to where it is really dote -- low down.

i just think that is what started -- was the beginning of this imbalance. it is killing the middle class. a really bad thing he did was take solar panels off the white house. what kind of forward thinking was that? he took the solar panels of the white house because they did not work. they cost more money to maintain than what they saved in terms of electricity. a statically they are also really ugly. when people look at the white house they want to see something that is treasured and memorable and important. the chevy certain meta-problem they look at the white house and see it as the official residence of the united states. panelss put on the solar that did not work and were quite ugly. so reagan took them down.

it is interesting the caller ,entions capital gains obviously the middle class grew during the reagan presidency. in the 86 tax bill is that while he institutes three top marginal rates, when he first becomes is 95%.t the top rate he lowers it down to 28%. , slightly, thees capital gains tax. that was part of the compromise with dan kautsky was part of the which wasittee actually the last time we had significant tax reform in this country. i think also this was populous reagan. he earned wealth as something more important than inherited wealth. allowed the top marginal rate on capital gains to go up while the trade-off was a top

marginal rate lowering traumatically. host: from memphis tennessee -- memphis, tennessee, arthur. go ahead. i think reagan will go out as one of the worst presidents we have ever had. up toe the union was set have a union bust for people through the years. he was known as the union buster. guest: reagan was the president of the guild. he was the first president of a union. he was a card-carrying member when he became president. he still had active membership in this green actors union. in his 19 is six autobiography he was a rapid prounion man. he questioned collective bargaining. whether or not that was

appropriate. he also believed in the rule of law. patco signed contract. they signed a contract with united states. part of that contract included not going on strike. they went on strike, they broke the law. that offended him. host: 202-748-8001 four republicans. ford democrats. 202-748-8002 for independents. ever feel reagan anxiety in the sense of not being in power are not having a political office? guest: not at all. it is interesting as he wrote in his diary the next to last day -- he kept diaries all eight years. he is one of the few presidents to keep an active diary. nobody really knew about them at the time.

he said tomorrow i start being president, then to california to start a new life. now he is 77 years old he is looking forward to a new life. that is remarkable about his personal optimism. it was always a new day. there was always a new opportunity. nott forget that he had just been president, he is been governor of california. president of the screen actors guild. he was excess will actor and broadcaster. he was successful host. he did not also have a lot of failures. he did. he had a lot of success. obviously the presidency was the pinnacle of his career. he's proud to be president. he was proud of what he did. he said so in his farewell address. he was ready to move on. host: in light of bill clinton's renomination and president reagan looking at that, could you expand on that? guest: he was on the ranch

watching dennis lovelock. the chicagoatching convention in 1996. reagan grew visibly agitated and frustrated that clinton was being renominated. now, dennis said he did not he was a republican. he was trying to go to the office? guest: he spoke at the houston convention. he met with gorbachev twice. he went white water rafting. he went to the office every day. he was quite active in the post-presidency. tell a story about him

after he leaves office. he set up the office already. people are calling to see him. guest: he and mrs. reagan had gone back to california. werelan was that they going to have a new house in bel air. given president for eight years. she was tired and he was tired too. they're setting up an office in century city which is interesting, they went to the office building where the movie. heard was filmed. the secret service was not happy about that, because they picked an office that had been blown apart in a movie by terrorists. they moved in. it was on the top floor. staff has a boxes, their hangup pictures, they are doing everything to set up an office. weeks calls in a few after being home and says i am coming in.

they were scrambling around. they put together a makeshift office for him. they were all in casual dress. reagan comes in, greets a step, goes into his office and shuts the door. a couple hours later he comes out with a piece of paper. he says i want to meet with these people. he looks at the list and does not recognize any names. he said we can meet with these people, but who are they? he said they had been calling. it turns out that when they stole the switchboard, the lines have been crossed, so that the set of phones going to the switchboard and a receptionist answering the office of ronald reagan all caps the president reagan, they were going directly to his office. so, while she is sitting there not answering the phone, these people were calling in. reagan answers the phone. so, they set out to come meet you. here -- he said ok.

goes ahead and schedules a time for each of his people to come in, meet ronald reagan, and one guy calls to set up the meeting. the guy says this is great. i will bring my neighbor. the guy said lightning struck your once, this is not going to happen a second time. everybody was -- everybody who called, reagan answered the phone, but all came in and got to meet the president. they got their phone taken. host: let's hear from virginia. democrat line. caller: yes, this is my second time calling. i've been talking for many years. like to besmirch his record, but let's be truthful about a few things. iran-contra.

some wheels to the blame for him. number two, this is the beginning of the plural klatt's dumbing down during the administration. overall, we have not had a republican president balance the budget. i do not know why a lot of people laud over his success, he had 240 marines dying the middle east. they were getting bombed overnight. i can go on and on with other instances of social security. he took money from social security to help pay for the tax cuts for the well-to-do. goingas been a situation back as far as ronald reagan's

presidency. the middle class has been suffering under every republican president. thank you. you put five points out there. let's let our guest respond. guest: i am writing as fast as i can. nobody sane president reagan was perfect. there were human beings involved. sometimes human beings have the best intentions. iran-contra remains a blemish on his record. he had nothing to do with it. he said so his diary. he took the responsibility. he won on television and took responsibility. it all started covertly in the white house. reagan never would have approved of a plan that went against federal law. they prohibited the used of armed american funds.

nobody said it would be perfect. the callers were wrong. the last republican to balance eisenhower,as not it was bill clinton. he did that with newt gingrich for several years the road or the second term. that is because, essentially clinton had embraced reaganomics . it was less government, nor tax cuts, a cap on federal spending. expanding the private economy. host: greg shirley joining us. i know you're not talking about current politics, i want to read something that michael reagan, ronald son wrote about donald trump. we're talking about donald trump and the nature of the gop. he said donald trump is nothing like my father, he united people, he said donald trump is killing the rest of my father's gop. he spent a lot of time throwing people off the republican bus. is that a fair statement? guest: does open to

interpretation. i agree with michael generally, specifically. the ideas that there are two things that i see that are not reagan. one is that he challenges the status quo. reagan always challenge the status quo. the second thing is that he does talk about the future and he does talk about a right future which is where much like ronald reagan. way to help women or minorities or the spanish, that is not reagan. to insult them. that is not ronald reagan. host: as far as children are concerned, what was his result. what was the play out especially during the funeral. suspect that page or was like most presidential families. they have high points and low points.

families have problems. they can generally avoid the glare of the international spotlight. john adams had his problems with his son. whos madison had a stepson was a compulsive gambler. they had to pay off debts. fdr's children so they never knew their parents. bill clinton had his problems with his stepbrother. badaid billy clinton was news. his problems were fairly tame. he loved his children. he grew very close to them. they are always close. but there always differences. sometimes it plays out the national media. after his presidency and during

alzheimer's he and patty had always been close. ron came much closer to his father in the post-presidency. in a way, his passing brought them together. host: from our independent line, john from north carolina. go ahead. caller: thank you. good morning. merry christmas. just a couple of comments about my thoughts of what i recall about president reagan. i'm 73 years old. i've been around here for a long time. rememberagan, as i went to philadelphia mississippi and dog whistled his way to the white house. his stance on south africa. they fought like crazy. he worked to support them. i remember -- i believe -- he

referred to nelson mandela as a terrorist. that is the ronald reagan i remember. i also member that he was against big government. yet, the largest building in washington dc has his name on it. reagan that inald remember there are many other things i could say. i appreciate the gentleman who spoke earlier about the marines. i'm a former marine. i do not see the ronald reagan that you see. i cannot forgive him for that because i lived through it. so, those are my comments. merry christmas. guest: let's take the last thing. he did not choose to have the building named after him. that was an act of congress. he did not choose that. as far as him not going to philadelphia, he went to the fair.

he went that in the campaign in 1980. that is a same county fair that michael dukakis addressed, and jimmy carter addressed. that ronalds idea reagan once refused to join a country called in los angeles when he found out i had a policy that did not allow jews. he refused to join them. probably one of the most nonjudgmental men we have ever elected president of united states. heh regard to south africa, opposed apartheid. he was also fighting communists. tohad to figure out how address this issue were he institutes a policy to desegregate south africa while still keeping south africa in the anti-communist fold. it was strategically important. it was important in terms of the coalition. so he engages.

he puts a place a policy of construction engagement. now, apartheid had been in existence in south africa since the time of maybe george washington. it had been a long time. fdr never did anything about it. harry truman never did anything. jimmy carter never do anything. reagan was the first president to actually instituted a policy to bring about desegregation. so, it was a tricky maneuver. it actually worked. the idea that he was racist is nonsense. there is no basis for that. republican line. walnut port, pennsylvania. mike, hello. all, wherest of picking apart these people. jesus said let he without sin cast the first stone. you know, until jesus runs on the ticket, we are always going

to be voting for the lesser of two evils. isaiah, 700 years before the birth we celebrate today, he prophesied. he said fronts and child is born, a son is given. the government will be on his shoulders. he will be called wonderful counselor. prince of peace. there is a common thread among our presidents. the ones who were successful, let's look at lincoln. the same scripture that ronald reagan embraced. that is found in second chronicles. it's as if my people were called by my name and brain secret. .urn to money i will forgive their sins. .e will hear the land reagan was not perfect. when he was in office i was in

clark county. i disagree with a lot of things, i have to look back, agree with what he did. the air traffic controllers broke the law. they broke the contract. was not great. he made a lot of mistakes. one thing he did, he listened. he given here to many counselors. he listens to the greatest counselor. i believe that he listened to the mighty counselor. host: thank you. we will let our guest respond. been: i think america has unbelievably fortunate because almost all the presidents we have had have been men of good intention. men of good faith. that includes george washington through to president obama. i do not question president obama at all. some republicans would question his policies. none sugar question his faith.

abraham lincoln sometimes said that the only way he could find the answer was on his knees. washington talked about it, franken roosevelt was there. when he was here on december 8, 1941, his final words to congress, so help us god. all presidents have been made of good faith. we should not question it. the idea of mistakes, the president reagan ever express it? guest: he was angry about iran-contra. he did express some particular outrage. he expressed it in the book. guest: because the cause aration was -- major embarrassment. it almost cause an impeachment.

washington was in a firestorm during this in 1987. late 19 a six early 19 seven. so, yes, he had some regrets. in 1982.ted about spending cuts for every one dollar tax increase. the tax increases came. augusta, georgia, democrat line. go ahead. good morning. thank you for taking my call. merry christmas. host: go ahead. caller: number one. that trickle down economics, we're still paying for that. number two, iran-contra thing.

i believe they let the drugs coming through here. over 900ree, beirut marines were killed. look how their dog and hillary clinton over benghazi. called aur, he catch-up of vegetables. guest: he did not call catch of a vegetable. there were some debate in the administration about federal assistance for school lunch programs. some bureaucrat tried to have a momentary float the idea about labeling that is a vegetable. 900 marines did not die. obviously, to a 47 people died and he regretted that, he regretted going into it. diary that hes

later come up with five points for conducting military warfare. the beirut presence did not have a defined mission. there are simply there. he learned. he learned as he went along. he learned and he adapted. host: because you use the funeral as a thing, talk something about how the planning for the funeral went. your fridge or something called the book. can you say what it was? ministration, washed and to every presidency. he says do you want a public or private funeral? they sayay private, thank you for your time. they go on the right. the mid they begin planning the military district. washington starts planning with the white house and the staff.

they start looking at retirement for the library. looking at how to import themselves, and how long this will stay in the rotunda. this is a motorcade. what type of flowers. who is selected as speaker. who is going to be a pallbearer. every imaginable detail. imagine that you can including his interment ceremony on the eclipse of the valley in california. is going down. the bagpiper played amazing grace. ronald reagan participated in that. he met them once a year. they would select pallbearers or speakers. then, it would happen in retirement. it was a constantly evolving document. craig ryan said at one point they had to keep changing speakers and pallbearers because ronald reagan kept outliving

everybody. they have the lowering of the flag. there was an advancement never military base. 21 gun salutes never military base. cannons were fired. bell was told 40 times for the 40th president. in to thes goes planning of the book. which, by the time of the funeral is a play-by-play composition of everything that was supposed to happen. he was supposed to do what, where, why, and how. host: marilyn, independent line. here go. caller: thank you. ok, i want to wish you both the merry christmas. one of the things i disapprove about mr. reagan as well is next bush, asmr. george h w

well as donald trump, they all play on the cold that we talked about. they ignore the silent majority. reagan with the philadelphia mississippi. bush with the heart thing, and george was doing the same thing. what really bothered me is during the nixon administration, they imported a lot of heroine during the war on drugs. admiral ortar distributors of cocaine throughout the minority community. yet, they were on television saying say no to drugs. it has caused a tremendous amount of harm and minority communities.

this is an off-base. another thing about mr. reagan, one of the things i disagree with, it seems like all the time he was in cabinet meetings, he was always sleeping. he was surrounded by people like mr. reagan. he was trying to get people to fire. over and destroyed our country. that is having a tremendous negative impact on our country. host: thank you for the call. guest: i do not know how to unpack this. ronald reagan left office in january. he had a 40% approval among african-americans. which was astronomical for a republican going all the way back to eisenhower. when he left california, one of the things he noted was that he

had promoted more african-americans than any previous california governor in history. that included pat brown. a republican. reagan went to the county fair, -- host: the falling asleep story? guest: that is not true. there is a picture of him working at a cabinet meeting. he later assign it to his chief of staff. he cited gmc. he said i do other things that fall asleep. if he did.ow maybe he did. and his defense, they are probably pretty boring. host: our last call this morning. this is ted on the republican

line. you are up. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i take issue with a lot of the callers who dispute ronald reagan's trickle-down economics. these many years later, people think of the entirety of that would comes from the governing. the government cannot give you anything. first, it has to take something from you. policy weren's great policies during his presidency to put the country on the right track. i will need training -- maintain that i remember i was like -- it was like a public broadcasting station. that many of the conservative republican policies that reagan instituted were largely

dismantled by the succeeding presidency of george herbert walker w bush. today withbelieve the increased differences thing that trickle-down economics trickle-down economics to ronald reagan were about money being spent. it was about my choice helping to grow the economy. host: i got you. we are running out of time. i have to kind of leave it there. guest: we always hear this thing that trickle-down economics. that created 18 million new jobs. trickle-down economics eliminated inflation which was a real threat to the american republic. countries that had been destroyed by inflationary spirals. the problem was that they believed trickle-down economics led to a lowering of interest rates. it led to a turnaround of americans faith in government and their future which in 1980,

a lot of americans told pollsters that their children's future would be worse by 1989. , whatry measurable way you call it reaganomics or trickle-down economics or conservative economics or whatever, it worked. so, i do not know how may times i can say that. host: the last act, the final years, the emerging legacy by