we would make a massive transfer of wealth. we cut taxes for 70 percent to 30, gutted treasury, gutted our ability to educate, feed command give healthcare to all of our people. and until we decide to get together, registered to vote , and go out and vote for people who will believe in them as people and not serve the wealthy you do not need the help that we will be in a world of hurt. we need to elect people who will fight for the people and not just for the wealthy. >> thank you. >> i am former chair.

but most important job, the real people out here, join your local democratic executive. it is very important that you get democrats elected at the city council level, the state representative and state sentence. if you don't just get involved with the present election,, local, state election and get involved, become educated. so my message to people out they're who are listening, and 2,000 al gore lost by 2,000 537 votes in florida. please go out there and get involved.

>> you mentioned a litmus test for justice. to recognize the death penalty is unconstitutional because it must be viewed as cruel and unusual punishment. number two, we have many failing public schools, at least new york and in many other indentured cities. and i think they can teach government courses. one is, there is no discipline imposed in the classroom and practically no homework assigned. and a 3rd point is a lot of the students need individual tutoring and mentoring. we want to get rid of property and find a way to get every child going.

the last one is to greatly reduce recidivism in prison amongst criminals. we must have real rehabilitation programs, educational and psychological. >> the open statement, number one. we must reinstate the estate tax. first thing he did, that is where we got all these. hundreds of years because they never had to pay. even rich people still have to work. everyone can have a drivers license. they can't get one because they are legally here. they should be allowed to

have a drivers license if they can drive a car. and the 1st thing is basically all of these illegal immigrants should be id so that we know who they are. we have no idea. so we need some handle on how many people have gotten in the country. >> we don't say the natural world. i don't believe we deserve to be here. jobs or whatever. claim to be moral. and let me conclude by saying in this age of war and present and divisiveness i want to say i love jesus.

i try to follow up with the practice. but cannot wait. allah, jehovah, yahweh, buddha, shiva, the sun and moon, earth and sky, all of the same come all are one. >> thank you. >> john adams wrote to thomas jefferson and said, if there is no literal heaven the entire bible must be made up. the existence of a god of love presumes a literal place where family and friends will live together forever and happiness and

healing. and god gave peter a vision of heaven. it's like a perfect day on the beach in the summer. so help people, love people, and focus on that. >> thank you. >> i would say, save the middle class. >> thank you. make sure to have the microphone in front of you. >> this is going to be a very important election. my two favorite candidates are bernie sanders and donald trump. different parties in a practical sense, but part of the problem is, we can't really talk about things

anymore. politics of hate and despise each other, too many people in prison. i am focusing on white people who are the majority of the population in america still. shame leads to debilitation. we need to hold our leaders to a higher standard. we are being misled and just to do anything, to march, stand up, participate in an election, this could be a wonderful year. i am proud and thank you for inviting me and others to participate. >> for those who think that isis is not a threat, be

reminded that hitler started off with a bunch of unemployed drunks in a munich beer hall. we are fighting the same theology or a similar theology that the kamikaze is used to fly into american targets with the hope of just killing americans. what i want to know, want you to no is that we have a lot of problems. drug abuse, real unemployment, and that we need to do with them in a logical manner and deal with them when we set a time. i can work with republicans, send a message". >> recently new hampshire lost one of its greats,

professor john ross at dartmouth, and extraordinary recitation. his memoir, the unfit mind, is a great inspiration. rather than read the amendment, which is what i was going to do, suggest you go in there to unzip your mind in order to think that perhaps what we need to do is tinker with the system, something we can actually do , go to our representatives, get them to sign up for something that truly changes. where money and gerrymandering come out of the process we have a chance to get to the issues that all these well-meaning wonderful candidates have described tonight. thank you, new hampshire, so

much for making this form available to us all. >> i want to thank the state of new hampshire and the panel for conducting this. this is the 1st time i have been able to get on television. if you want to see more you can go online. i have over 50,000 facebook likes, forth among democrats on facebook and social media and should have been at the debates, in my opinion. i wrote letters to debbie wasserman schultz. when it came to the other category we had about 15 percent. i was two or 3 percent but did not make the debate stage. i have been endorsed by the democratic liberty caucus. i stand for trying to help

with the isis situation, and i am the only one appear that stands for your security and protecting americans here at home and abroad. >> i would like to thank everyone for having us here this evening. you know, we hear all the time that our children are not going to have the same opportunities that those of us on stage have had. it is more than just a shame. it is a disgrace. and it needs to be changed. we can change this outcome if we stop stealing from our children. that means we pay and balance the budget for basic governmental services we consume and take steps to give our children the better opportunity through education, specifically supporting expanding aid to community colleges to give

them the opportunity to have their dreams come true likely have. thank you very much. >> mr. hughes. >> if you are not satisfied is still have an opportunity to do something critically important. fifty-eight million babies in the united states which might have been saved. i am endorsed by democrats for life and most prominent democrats. let the record show once again that there will be 3500 innocent babies killed today, 25,000, a hundred thousand, constitution,

declaration of independence, religious tradition, humanity calls on all of us to do what we can do right this wrong. martin luther king, john kennedy, bobby kennedy, and i believe the majority. please vote pro-life. >> thank you, mr. hughes. >> i would like to get a show of hands. please raise your hand if you think there is something that you could do better? brad, john, mike. >> i will put my hand up. >> that is what president obama and most want to do. it may be that they want more power because as

government grows bigger they get more power. please don't listen to the leaders of the party. president obama has been the worst president since james buchanan. jobs matter, black lives matter, black education matter. we need a more responsible government. >> thank you, mr. stewart. >> the top tax rate goes to 90 percent, top business executives who make a million dollars will be looking at having an after-tax income of a hundred thousand dollars or so in the us versus going to another country and having half million dollars of net income after taxes.

if the tax rates on companies, and outflow. on immigration we need to keep the good hard-working ones and get rid of the bad ones. in terms of my opening remarks, the college system of lectures has been around since the time of. [inaudible] saw that is good but some of it is all technology. it is an expensive, and we could gain a lot from it. >> thank you. >> make sure you are speaking into the microphone. >> when you come visit me,

actually, i'm not important. the ideas are what is important. one idea i would like to express his america needs a national service board. i call it the innovation core that every american citizen gives to the country to her three years which will solve the problem about the white cop in the black people, the immigrants. when we rub shoulders together it is hard to hate each other. they understand each other. so one of the things i would advocate for on day number one is a national service corps call the innovation core that would use new technologies to solve actual problems in our towns and country and even internationally. the idea, i think, i believe in deep democracy, and everyone participating in our country can contribute

to solving the problem. that is what i represent. i am not important. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. >> my 2nd last name is alexander. while the grandfather came from france, the other from spain. from mexico we made it back here. i started and was born in san diego. nobody talks you about the homeless. guess what, nobody talked. about what is important, jobs. i want to bring in right now

i'm not going to wait. i want to generate a million new jobs. >> and the last minute goes to jon adams. >> thank you for mentioning the environment. i have been fighting for the environment for 20 years starting in southwestern new mexico, but i would like to take a minute -- a moment of silence. [silence] my time is short. but i did want to take that moment. he died of rheumatoid arthritis. i just think it is abhorrent that we can spend more than a trillion dollars on the war in iraq but not 5 percent of that researching diseases, trying todiseases, trying to cure diseases. why is there no cure for rheumatoid arthritis? he did not have to die.

why do we have a country not focused on things that matter but focused -- focused on making sure our children have better opportunities than we did in that the environment is safe and clean. thank you for coming, thank you secretary, god bless new hampshire. good night. >> let's have a round of applause. thank you for sharing your views. if i can thank my panel mates, thank you for your time and for keeping the time and doing a great job with it. one final thing to the audience watching here and on c-span as well. thank you. have a good night. [applause] >> forty years ago today the supreme court handed down a

decision in roe v wade. today on c-span at 6:30 p.m. our landmark cases series looks back at how the case was decided. then at 8:00 p.m. today's march for life with opponents of abortion rights carly fiorini, joni ernst, christopher smith, and a number of antiabortion activists. >> c-span takes you on the road to the white house. best access to the candidates at town hall meetings, speeches, rallies, and meeting greets. we are taking your comments and always every campaign we cover is available on our website, c-span.org. >> more road to the white house coverage this weekend. 5:10 a.m. saturday morning

at town hall meeting. at 8:00 o'clock tomorrow night ted crews holding a campaign rally with glenn beck and iowa congressman steve king at the five sullivan brothers convention center and sunday on newsmakers new hampshire senator shaheen on her states primary. a supporter of hillary clinton. newsmakers is sunday on c-span at 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. eastern. >> book tv has 48 hours of nonfiction books and authors every weekend on c-span2. here are some programs to watch for this weekend. tonight charlie savage argues president obama who

came into office has picked up where president bush left off in his book power wars. then at 10:00 p.m. on afterwards former senate leaders on their book crisis point, looking at the current finding in congress and offering recommendations for moving america forward. interviewed by former congressman of oklahoma. >> incredible, insatiable demand for more and more money is one of the issues that really is exacerbating this and making it harder for leaders to bring people together because they are not in town, doing other stuff that does not allow them to be the legislature they were elected to be, and you have special interest pressures. >> this is how we do things. history is littered with

this function and challenges george washington almost had to resign. what we want to do is look forward and say here are things we think would make a difference. >> @sunday night at 8:00 o'clock eastern the changing world for young women in the middle east and her book. looking at the kind of choices young arab women are making and how they differ from those of their mother. >> women are going to universities in greater numbers than men all over the region. and especially in the gulf countries, the forces of women are greater compared to the men. this is partly because it is a socially acceptable way to the outside the home in a way that the families will support. >> watch all weekend,

television for serious readers. >> the 2nd energy committee held a hearing ona hearing on electric cars, fuel efficiency, and other technological improvements in automobiles. alaska senator lisa murkowski chaired one hour 40 minute hearing. >> good morning. we will call to order the senate energy and natural resources committee. this morning we have a hearing on the status with innovative technologies within the automotive industry. good news for me is i don't have to drive a lot in washington dc, but theredc, but there are a lot of people that were out on the

roads yesterday wondering what the new advances are in automotive technology and industry and how they will handle it. we time this hearing deliberately not just to occur with where we are starting with our broad partisan energy bill, looking to take that up at the 1st of next week on the senate floor and also here this morning because the auto show is commencing. that kicks off tomorrow. while there is no substitute for going in person, we have the ceo of the alliance here to share his thoughts. welcome to the committee. it is not just the auto show that makes this hearing timely. the 17.5 million cars and trucks sold this banner year was spurred by low gas prices, and those are projected to remain low. vehicle sales have been

boosted by the tremendous innovation taking place right now which is a story that deserves more attention. we have seen dozens of alternative fuel models emerge from electric vehicles to fuel-cell powered to a four f1 50 that can run on compressed natural gas and propane. at the same time we have seen exciting developments in everything from safety technology to self driving cars which may offer their own energy and environmental benefits. this is not opportunity to learn more about innovation taking place, particularly related to alternative fuels and lightweight materials at the heart of the department of energy research activities in this committee's jurisdiction. this is a look down the road , a chance to hear about technologies that are emerging to gauge how they affect our needs and

understand challenges that must be overcome and a chance to recognize the automotive industry is facing heavy regulations, particularly when it comes to fuel efficiency. while those are not within this committee's jurisdiction that have an impact on the nation's fuel consumption and are worth monitoring. another goal is to examine whether federal programs meant to support innovation are working as intended, whether properly oriented to help our automotive industry innovate, compete command thrive which brings us to the work that the doe is doing. i have consistently advocated technology mutual policies instead of picking one favorite technology and plowing most or all of our limited federal research dollars into it i am convinced the better path is to support research in a

wider range and let the markets and consumers determine which is best. we are on a good track. we include several provisions to boost innovation including a modified version of the vehicle innovation act which was sponsored by senator peter's, senator alexander and senator stevan now which will provide the department of energy with the structure, authority, and clear direction. our energy bill is bipartisan, and we can make sure that our vehicle innovation policies are bipartisan,bipartisan, too. i look forward to what the witnesses have to offer. we have a vote scheduled at 1030, and i no thati know that the panel needs to leave by 1130. we will be expeditious. >> thank you for holding this important hearing.

today's hearing is a way to talk about the new vehicle technology. the us auto industry has come back and has served a record number of vehicles, but there is still work to be done. they are very dependent upon oil. nearly 30 percent of greenhouse gas. while we have significantly reduced the use of oil we now need to sharpen our focus on transportation which is why the department of energy has had a long-standing relationship to develop and deploy new and next-generation research , vehicle technology office works with light-duty automobiles as well as commercial trucks to improve efficiency standards. i should say side note lightweight composites have

driven great transformation in the aerospace industry. the legislation we passed builds on the success in part of work done by members of this committee. reauthorizing the vehicle technology office at the department of energy and direct a new focus on technology, looking forward to working with the department on these key programs and exploring the ways in which these partnerships will help make additional nodes effective. as the price of gas continues to drop in some areas below $2 consumers are looking for larger vehicles and suvs. according to the transportation research institute the average economy were less fuel-efficient. this is the 1st time that the average fuel economy of cars sold has dropped.

thethe oil market can be volatile and we must remember this. there will be a correction. increasing fuel efficiency is one of the biggest steps we can take to save families more money by reducing the cost and helping reduce emissions. there promising new technologies today and alternative fuels. we can help bring this to a larger market scale. the pacific northwest laboratories have partner with the industry for decades. researchers have focused on incorporating more aluminum in the automotive manufacturing to make lighter vehicles. to go back to aviation, huge fuel efficiency savings. customers are happy, and the savings they get. the technology is being used in vehicles today.

in addition, the pacific northwest labs are working on game changing technology using catalysts to these fuels from plant matter. this is importantthis is important work to help us diversify and hedge against a volatile energy markets but improving efficiency is also brought about by focusing on our freight network. each year 3 billion gallons of fuel is wasted due to congestion, and businesses pay the price estimated at 27 billion. as our export economy continues to grow we must get them to market. that is why particularly the super truck issue is important. my colleague from michigan is here. in order to achieve more fuel efficiency. meanwhile, a lecture fixation provides important benefits, and they can save

the consumer up to 1200 per year in fuel by reduced -- and could reduce emissions 48 percent. the department of energy has partnered with industry to drive down the cost of electric car batteries and improve performance in the average battery pack was more than 1,000 per kilowatt and today is estimated to be less than 300. this means vehicles can travel further and with better performance. we must continue to ensure that we are focusing on these next-generation technologies. there are currently only 900 public fast charging stations and 14 hydrogen refueling stations compared to almost 170,000 gas stations across the united states of america. so i look forward to hearing from witnesses today. how we can continue to answer that part of the

equation. of course self driving cars are an important aspect of the discussion of future automobiles and we look forward to a witnesses might have to say on that. secretary mooney and others have made it a fine point to continue discussion on the public-private partnerships and i know this recent mission innovation the secretary and private sector like bill gates are pioneering are an important aspect for us doing our job here in making sure we continue to have next-generation technologies so that the us can continue to be a leader. thank you. >> thank you, senator. we will now turn to our panel. i advise you each, you have five minutes her testimony.

your full statements will be included as part of the record, but we would ask you to try to observe that five-minute timeline here so that we can get your questions. they have a distinguished panel led by the principal assistant deputy sec. secretary for the office of energy efficiency and renewable energy. thank you for joining us. we have mr. mitch payne wall who i just mentioned, president and ceo of the alliance of automobile manufacturers. genevieve:, president of electric drive transportation association. and doctor chris gearhart's director of transportation and hydrogen system center at the national renewable energy lab. and the final member of the panel is mr. xavier maquette

, senior partner and managing director for the boston consulting group. welcome to each of you. >> well, thank you, chairman , ranking member, all the members for the opportunity to testify on behalf of the department of energy's office of energy efficiency and renewable energy. if we look at the world today are natural imperative is clear. we must when the clean energy race, and when we do that we will capture aa significant share of the multitrillion dollar global clean energy market and the jobs, energy, energy security, and other opportunities that will be created along the way. as principal deputy assistant secretary i help manage a broad portfolio of solutions comprised of high-impact applied research , development, and demonstration activities to deliver on our mission through renewable power,

energy efficiency, and our focus, sustainable, sustainable transformation. as we heard earlier transportation accounts for more than 70 percent of us petroleum. about 1/5 ofone 5th of household expenditures and one 3rd of us energy-related carbon emissions and remains a significant source of pollutants. i transportation program focuses on two key solutions to these challenges. using less energy to move people and freight, 2nd fueling vehicles with cost competitive domestically produced alternative fuels with lower greenhouse gas emissions. through our work at the national renewable energy lab and with our other partners we have helped deliver significant results through technologies that are on the market today. in fact, each dollar we have invested in heavy-duty vehicle combustion technology has delivered

about 70 and net benefit for taxpayers, 70 to one ratio. our program has shown the potential to cut the fuel use of long-haul trucks by one 3rd to one half and some of the aerodynamic and pyro technologies from the program are already making their way into the market. in the batteries from plug-in electric vehicles tap into industry licensed technology developed at argonne national labs. ee re: backed research has helped increase fuel cell durability fourfold while cutting projected high-volume cost in half since 2006. thanks in part to research developed at los alamos national labs, two companies are selling or leasing fuel-cell vehicles with another to have them -- another to enter the market this year and others soon to

follow. while we are proud of how far we have come, there is more to do. as president obama and other world leaders affirmed, solving our energy and climate challenges will require significantly accelerated development and innovation of new technologies. and while we continue to lead the world on innovation and entrepreneurship we have historically underinvested in clean energy. in fact,fact, compared to the size of our economies we invest about one 3rd as much as competitors like china and japan. as we try to reverse this trend, we will continue our electric and heavy-duty vehicle work. we will work to invest in other important areas like the co- optimization of new fuels inventions to boost efficiency and renewable fuel use. through cross cutting r&d

efforts to develop advanced high-strength materials to reduce cost and improve performance and enhance manufacturing processes for automotive use such as the ongoing work mentioned before as well as composites there and at oak ridge national labs and across the country through our institute for advanced composite manufacturing innovation. quick modernization is important to fully integrate plug-in electric vehicles in fuel cells in a safe, secure, reliable, and cost effective manner including critical cyber security work at idaho national and other laboratories. research and transportation mobility is also critical in order to identify untapped system-level energy savings through connected and automated vehicles like those at the ann arbor test program. with programs like these and support from you and the

technologies you will hear about, the department of energy will continue to drive innovation within the auto industry and into the vehicles on showroom floors and highways across the country. i would forward to working with congress and the committee to further advance transportation technologies, create new jobs and industries while saving consumers and businesses money and helping to address energy and climate challenges. >> thank you, chairman, members of the committee. i appreciate the chance to be here today. our guys and others are invested massively in r&d, hundred 9 billion last year, 16 percent of the global spend, roughly four times our economic waste.

and that is paying real dividends. i got up this morning and realized i have been traveling 20 miles. i took a path that was different than any other, the last 20 years. so i was directed to washington in a fashion that was quicker so i said time, cleaner and more fuel-efficient. that struck me as a metaphor for today, technology bringing about a convergence of social objectives. safer and more efficient which is exactly what we are doing. i thought i would go through slides, and if i can i will do it quickly and ask that you be patient as i try to get through it. the 1st will take a bit of time.

we do extensive polling, 5,000 samples of consumers a month and asked them what kind of powertrain their next vehicle will be. the good news is, as you can see roughly 20 percent wanted to go to a hybrid which becomes a proxy for alternate powertrains and mostly 60 percent said they wanted a gas engine. if you look at the line you see the harbor number falling in the gas number rising. more models, more hybrid and electric models and what is going on as we made progress that is so profound that my consumer goes in the showroom this coverdiscover the new car is getting 25 percent more fuel efficiency than the old one and the success of the conventional engine is

making it harder to justify the delta which is a challenge for us. going electric is a worthy goal, but there is a market challenge. the next slide speaks to the number of alternative powertrain models for sale, and in 2008 there were roughly 21, 22 models now up close to 80. that is a combination of electric, hybrid, and plug-in. next line shows the number of models achieving 30 plus mpg and what you see is profound success, part of the value of the investment. so the models are in the showrooms. the opportunity to buy is there, and on the conventional side it is making the choice to your alternative powertrain. you can see that there has

been a dip, 2015 slow down. part of that is gas prices and part of that is the success of the conventional engine. the next line shows retail market share, and it looks like synchronized swimming. you have a direct relationship between gas prices and the sale of hybrids. i am moving quickly because i'm running out of time. the slide titled total 2014 vehicle related fatalities shows we lost 33,000 americans on the road in 2014 which is an awful number, but it is worthwhile to.out the 97 percent of those have nothing to do with the vehicle. that is why technology is so important. the next slide puts the

fatality number in the context. sixty-five year trendline. vertical bars are the absolute number of folks, and in 2013 to 14 it is roughly where we were in 1949. the vehicle miles traveled is dramatically higher. the progress we have achieved which is a function of less drunk driving, more folks using belts. the next chapter will come from the technology we talked about here today. i would make that point that i started with, all of these technologies are not about safety but about maximizing the social objectives, a convergence. it is very safe and productive. so whether it is advanced driver assist or fully

autonomous vehicles, there is a profound almost magical implication for the economy and life. and so we appreciate the focus on innovation and focus on the convergence of benefits. one last point, this last line shows the fundamental dilemma that we have. a 25 year pattern, the blue line is year-over-year change in household income. the salmon colored liner rises is the price which is been driven up by compliance responsibilities. the yellow line is interest rates. what we have done is financed the ability to comply with more expensive vehicles by lowering interest rates and longer

terms. adoption application in terms of turning over the fleet to vehicles that are much more efficient. with that i say thank you. >> thank you. welcome. >> good morning. chairman, members of the committee. i am pleased to be here today to speak about the advances being made. the electric drive transportation association is a cross industry trade association with members over the entire train. today electric drive is performing an light-duty cars, trucks, buses, and mobile equipment.

innovation throughout the industry is providing consumers with water vehicle options, enhanced performance and that reduced cost and are accelerating transformational changes in mobility overall by connecting the power, transportation, and communication sectors. is the commercial scale introduction this segment has grown exponentially from two vehicles to 40 battery and plug-in hybrid vehicles. these vehicles include offerings across a range of price points and vehicle categories without electric ranges from 11 to 280 miles. total us sales surpass 400,000 and global sales are expected to triple to 179 billion. the diversity is set to go further with the addition of fuel cells which can offer

approximately 300 miles of range. over the past few weeks automotive and consumer electronic show's have showcased a large array of vehicles including a midprice battery electric vehicle, a luxury plug-in hybrid, fuel-cell electric crossover, battery electric microbus and plug-in hybrid minivan. this illustrates the diversity of customer needs. behind the vehicles are innovations and investments that are enhancing performance and reducing the cost of batteries, fuel cells, components, and materials. a reduction in the cost of lithium-ion batteries and a reduction in automotive fuel cell cost in part from the private sector collaboration department of energy which is brought down cost more than 35 percent.

innovation track extends beyond vehicles. collaborations are occurring to drive down costs and build that infrastructure. creating new business miles -- models to maximize the benefit of energy sources to the grid and customers. partnering to scale battery production and diversify energy storage options. the use of new and post automotive batteries gives energy consumers greater control of energy choices, enhances grid stability and supports the increased use of renewable and distributed energy. at the same time vehicle charging facilities have expanded greatly. 30,000 charging outlets. these don't improve private, private, residential, and a growing number of workplace charging options.

vehicle and phone -based applications as well as increased operability between are making it easier for drivers to evaluate charging options. hydrogen infrastructure is emerging. in california nearly 70 stations are scheduled to open. public-private collaborations are expanding. electric drive transportation is reinforcing the autonomy. while the continual autonomous technology is being built it is not exclusive to electric drive which is the optional partner. watching my clock. we are making great strides but still an emerging market and are pushing to the liver

and past performance. public-private partnerships are critical to speeding innovations and we very much appreciate the committee's recognition of important work supporting research development. again, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you. welcome. >> thank you for the opportunity to speak today. i am director of transportation and hydrogen systems research, and prior to coming i worked at ford motor company on among other things hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles. innovation has always been an important part, but the rate of changes faster than ever. their technologies on the horizon.

the department of energy a working on technologies to help make this a reality and today i would like to talk to you about few of the many ways national labs are helping the automotive industries meet these goals are continuing to be the engine of our economy. connecting autonomy to vehicles are all over the news. group of researchers are starting to quantify these impacts. tailored recommendations and incentives can be provided to the individual traveler using real-time data so they can make better decisions. from this and other projects it is clear big data and cyber security will be increasingly important.

the national labs have significant expertise and capabilities. the labs are also doing lots of work to accelerate the development and deployment of electrified vehicles, using expertise on lithium-ion batteries for my performance computing and simulation to help shorten design time and improve performance of automotive batteries. one great example is our project to develop new computer aided engineering tools which the automotive industry continues to shorten design time for battery development. wideband semi conductor materials will make power electronic devices smaller, more efficient, and it will operate at higher temperatures. we will have more efficient vehicles and charging stations. power america is a partnership bringing together industry, universities, and national labs to accelerate the

development and commercialization. excuse me. electric vehicles are also becoming part of the ever-expanding internet of everything. we are examining these interactions between building energy systems, the utility grid renewable sources and electric vehicles command we have world-class facilities including the energy systems integration facility and the vehicle technology integration facility to study these interactions. as has been mentioned, fuel-cell electric vehicles are not commercially available. this is been made possible by more than a decade of innovation supported by the fuel-cell technologies office resulting in more than a 50 percent decrease in the cost of fuel-cell systems. there are still significant challenges to be met including the cost effective generation of renewable hydrogen the development of a robust hydrogen fueling

infrastructure. a world leader in renewable hydrogen production, partners and h2 1st working with industry partners to find innovative solutions to hydrogen infrastructure problems. the internal combustion engine will continue to be an essential part of the transportation system, particularly for heavy-duty transportation. groundbreaking research has identified new combustion engine strategies that particularly when optimized to run on renewable fuels will offer significantly higher significance and lower emissions. have launched an initiative to work on this co- optimization of biofuels and engines. replacing heavy fuel components with those made of lighter metals can reduce vehicle mass after 20 percent which results in a 12 to 16 percent reduction in fuel consumption. the institute supported by

doe advanced manufacturing office is working to develop new low-cost high-speed efficient manufacturing and recycling process technologies for advanced polymer composites. in conclusion, there is a wide range of research that will achieve many benefits for the transportation system including improving efficiency, reducing the impact and driving competitiveness. thank you, and i am happy to address any questions. >> thank you. >> thank you, chairman, members of the committee. is that better? wonderful. so innovation is clearly increasing in the automotive industry. increased by 8 percent per item, and the supplier spending has increased by

5 percent. concern to the consumer surveys, customers who want to buy cars will bring them to market. we see five areas of spending for car manufacturers and suppliers. electrification, connectivity, active safety and automated driving field by regulation and also technology advancement. if i look, there are mainly three areas. internal combustion, hybrid and battery electric and sales. internal combustion engines have seen many improvements, and right now all the evolutions of brought in

efficiency improvements by 35 percent to 50 percent roughly at a cost of $2,000 to 2500 car. this is why we see today the landscape that will continue for the foreseeable future where these technologies represent the vast majority of the market. meanwhile, the market for hybrids and battery electric vehicles is being challenged. right now this market has been growing for ten years and peaked in 2013 at 3.8 percent penetration of the us market which declined 2.9 percent last year. only 6 percent of us drivers are ready to pay more for a greener and more efficient car and what they want to spend on average is $4,600. creates an unstable market

and is well below the cost. what this means is support from the legislature in the form of incentives will have to remain potentially below the current and then support will be needed for the markets in the next few years. it is commonly agreed about 10 percent of weight reduction would help gain 68 peh efficiency at a cost of two to $5 per pound saved. the materials are aluminum, magnesium, advanced steel, calvin, and the challenge for innovation, the availability of materials particularly true for steel and maybe for the cost of carbon fiber. the other thing is now you agree you are picking the right material for different

parts of the car and then bonding technologies will be a main source of innovation. connectivity includes two areas. the other one is vehicle to vehicle, vehicle to pedestrian, vehicle to infrastructure which would require a minimum adoption to get the benefits in terms of safety and traffic regulation, and there there will be further regulation for the market to develop naturally. safety features are available with existing technology and have the potential to reduce by 30 percent the number of accidents on us roads in the number of fatalities. within the benefit every year. the challenges today, this features cost about twice more than customers are naturally willing to pay and therefore the penetration is low and only going a few

percent per item. whereas the cost would decrease and there would be naturally sustainable markets. further innovation and support to increase penetration potential incentive and more regulation. autonomous vehicle, the next up has the promise to reduce the number of accidents and therefore to reduce congestion and improve fluidity of traffic. furthermore, we think that in dense urban environments we could replace roughly 900,000 private cars in europe which reduces the number of cars on the road, improves traffic command has significant impact on fuel efficiency and therefore there is a major challenge

to get to this as soon as possible. overall these technologies deserve the attention of the legislature. there is an important balancing act to think about where to spend not only for the naysayer but the consumer as many still cost more than the consumer would be naturally willing to pay. >> thank you. i appreciate the testimony from each of you. always interesting to hear where the exciting developments are. i'm going to start with you. i mentioned in my opening i am in the group of lawmakers that is reluctant in the government to be picking winners and losers, whether it is as it relates to types of automobiles or energy sources. i was lead right into this

and acknowledging that some of the incentives and supports that we currently have are going to his opinion need to be around for a while longer and looking at the charts you have provided, it is clear that what has happened has influenced consumer decisions as to whether or not they are going with electric or hybrid. can you speak to this issue where we try to pick a winner and loser and in emerging area from your members perspective and preferences, how should the federal government handle, or should they are all in promoting fuel and efficiency related

innovation that inadvertently or not may push in a direction that perhaps does put us in a situation where picking winners and losers. >> our members prefer it approach this technology neutral. the longer answer is more complicated. we identify with the goal of reducing carbon, reducing fuel dependency. all of those things are noble objectives. the complication comes from the nature of the regulatory regime. what we have is an approach that epa measures by greenhouse gas and there is

an overlapping state program from california which is executed in a bunch of other states and the program which is not technology neutral. in today's world mostly electrification. we are complying with different regulatory regimes and get caught in the middle between amended on consumption, not amended on consumption in the low gas tax environment, consumers are moving away from the stated social objectives of electrification and moving folks in the smaller cars rather than trucks. so it is a challenge. technology neutral is ideal. consumers will respond in a fashion that is rational for

them. they are into maximizing the pocketbook. >> missed: had mentioned that contained within this they're are some r&d provisions in their that are good for the industry. the automakers are looking at and saying this is helpful for industry? >> we want to be more than a symbol. they cost items like cars as

show the chart that has increasing price of cars we are stabilizing supply and reducing cost which allows people to buy new cars. the vi a component that senator stevan now brought to the table is also helpful , and we would love to focus because at the end of the day it is estimated that 80 percent of all non- impaired accidents can be addressed. there are fuel and safety implications of that. assistance is helpful. >> i appreciate you bringing up the critical minerals

bill. you mentioned that as well in the context of material availability and what that means for the industry, recognizing that we don't want to go in the same direction with critical minerals that we were headed when it came to vulnerability and relying upon foreign sources for oil. that is something we are all paying attention to. the 1030 vote has started. i'm going to excuse myself from the committee. senator cantwell will ask her questions. i asked her to go back and forth. you will see members popping in and out. don't take that as a lack of interest. i will be back to ask another round of questions. >> thank you, madam chair. i will defer to my colleague from michigan. >> thank you very much. and 1st i have to say, i

could spend hours talking about this representing michigan and so many technologies are being developed through industries in michigan and great universities that are collaborating with the department of energy and federal labs. vehicle to vehicle technology, all of the safety things you are talking about are so critical as well as addressing energy savings and emissions and what is happening in the range of things around battery development, fuel cells all of it. i want to say, one piece that did not get in the energy bill that we are looking forward to doing on the floor is the provision put forward on the advanced technology vehicle program to be able to expand the flexibility of that to

larger vehicles which is so important and automated suppliers. we no right now the latest department of energy advanced technology manufacturing loan actually went to alcoa and tennessee to help them continue the very exciting opportunities around aluminum. we know the f1 50 -- i sound like ads for automobiles, but f1 50 has been able to take 700 pounds out of the truck by using aluminum instead of steel. but i wonder if you might just expand on what i know is in your written testimony about the importance of taking existing programs and giving them a broader portfolio so that we can address what needs to be done around larger vehicles and trucks. >> we are supportive of your effort to broaden the

eligibility to trucks and suppliers. we think that that makes sense. >> great. from your perspective how do you see that helping us as we move forward to tackle energy savings? >> it is clear heavier vehicles are incredibly important area that needs to be tackled. our program has shown there is a lot of progress to be had which needs to be backed up with investment, especially when you consider long-haul trucks account for 4 percent of registration the 10 percent of oil use. having more resources and opportunities to invest is an important part of a balanced portfolio. >> and listening to all of you and watching and having a chance to allow these vehicles, and see what is happening, one of the things i keep coming back to and in

your chart looking at what consumers are choosing and certainly gas prices as we look at new technologies and so on, but when we look at this when i hear all the time from people is a concern about lack of infrastructure. we were seeing hybrids and electric vehicles, plug it into a regular plug, but when i look at things like hydrogen fuel cells that have huge potential, it seems to me that we have got to be focused much more aggressively on making sure the gas station is actually a service station and you have the options and it is consumer friendly. i wonder if you would respond to that and then anyone else who would want to. how do we get there where we get over the huge barrier of

lack of choice of the service station? >> i agree, particularly with hydrogen. so i agree with you, particularly with hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles, the lack of infrastructure is a big problem. that is one of the big roles that the federal government can play, to make sure that the technology for the infrastructure is as ready as the technology for the vehicles. the automotive companies have done a fantastic job. drivers are going to want reliable fueling stations online every time they go, and if they don't, we will have a false start. that is why we have built a research station specifically for the purpose of looking at the reliability of the hydrogen

infrastructure to make sure that the components are ready to identify mistakes, working with h2 usa, a public-private partnership and people in the industries to try to identify the critical items to make sure the hydrogen infrastructure can get ready. >> i am out of time. >> quickly, i agree completely on the hydrogen infrastructure. the fuel-cell vehicle premised on the model of centralized once a week fueling. for plug-in vehicles it is more of a cell phone model. responding to the needs of the work home in public are slightly different and i would say that the industry is working with the department of energy and state and local partners to

build out infrastructure. >> thank you. >> senator. >> thank you very much. thank you to the witnesses for your time today. welcome to the senate energy committee. i enjoyed driving a hydrogen fuel vehicle. the headquarters of the national renewable laboratory last year. a great opportunity to see the work, and senator gary peters and i created a smart transportation caucus. our focus will be on vehicle to vehicle. if anyone is interested, i would love to see you in the caucus. we have a range of issues that we could talk about. about. it is fun to hear what everyone is working on. in colorado, if you have given to the mountains, beaver creek anytime in the

last several years he probably spent a couple of hours in traffic jams. i was ourisaiah we are not going to be drilling a new tunnel through the eisenhower johnson town, additional tunnels anytime soon. the solutions we have to look for a being talked about on this panel, vehicle to vehicle communication and alternative transportation methods and modes. a couple of questions that go beyond this committee. we have questions of spectrum. we have issues of moral authority that will have to be determined. when a car will make a decision if driving by itself to take the ditch the wildlife that may be crossing the road because there is another car coming. these are all questions that over time will have to be worked out. moral choices to the kind of

communications that an older vehicle makes. in agriculture we have been using driverless tractors for over a decade now. good retrofit a 30 or 40 -year-old tractor with a self steering mechanism. now what it could mean to solve transportation, clogging the arteries. and this morning it was announced that the national renewable energy laboratory had entered into in mlu the department of transportation in colorado for research when it comes to vehicle to vehicle communication. >> yes. announced the road ask program to look at the potential for using these automated and connected technologies and really all

aspects. they joined with national renewable lab to bring in the fuel economy and emissions aspect. we are in discussions with them looking at a number of possible projects we can help by collecting data and providing analysis. concerning of these technologies make the difference, so we are excited about it. we have not quite found that i 70 corridor project, but i am looking forward to the day that the car drives me up i 70. very, very exciting partnership. >> potential congestion relief, are you able to model that? >> we are working on modeling it.

right now what we have seen, if we look at the energy impact they could be dominated by several effects. if the dominant effect is to make the traffic flow much, much smoother we will reduce the energy per mile significantly. will people drive more miles what is the bounce back effect of having remove the barriers they just drive more miles and dry the missions up. it is as much about how consumers think and make decisions based upon information they are

receiving as it is technology. i cannot give you an answer right now. it could be anywhere from half of the energy consumed to twice as much energy consumed. but it is going to be a big effect, and we need to understand that. >> a perfect solution to the victory the broncos will have over the patriots. thank you for the opportunity to be here. >> tremont. [laughter] tremont. your dream will last a few more days. >> the throwdown. thank you, madam chairman. there are two ways to repeal a rule. enough exceptions alternatives the auto industry complaints about

ambitious fuel economy standards because it costs money to make cars more efficient and reduce pollution. the industry knows it cannot when i had on fight, so it looks like the industry is trying to paper over it. here's how it works. recently house republicans introduced a bill to improve automotive safety that includes loopholes to let the automotive makers break from fuel economy standards. the bill was nine specific safety technologies. car companies have already agreed to install several. this is obviously not a big stretch. the bill says that if any automaker installs three technologies from the list they will be eligible for credit equal to at least 3 grams of carbon dioxide per mile toward their greenhouse gas emissions requirement. in other words, this says

you do what you already agreed to do and can slide by with lower epa standards. it sounds like a pretty slick operation. what i cannot figure out is the calculation that three safety features should be worth exactly 3 grams of carbon dioxide per mile. not one or ten. you represent the auto industry and a been a vocal supporter. can you tell me whether your industry suggested this number to the house of representatives what are the house republicans give you the number? >> just want to know who came up with it. >> we did not. >> the house republicans gave you the number and put 3 grams on the safety features? >> this was a draft provision that was shown to us.

but let me contextualize. >> you would be okay if they could? >> if i could, about 600 grams of credit, roughly hundred $35,000 to buy and we are providing 600 grams of credit, safety technologies which have a value for the environment and congestion and safety. fifteen. >> the question is not whether or not reducing congestion may or may not reduce pollution ultimately. this is actually a quite debatable point, and there has been evidence on both sides. as i understand it, economist joe cartwright said the evidence suggests that if you reduce congestion people drive further and that more than offsets the effects related

to the point doctor gerhart was just making. i have one question, who calculated the number. if you are telling me the auto industry did not do it i want to know who did it. where did the number come from? >> this is a draft document, but it was an extraordinarily modest number in the context of what started for tesla and the overall target. >> i appreciate you think it is a small number. >> we are not talking about tesla. i think that what is clear, and i asked whether you have any evidence and said no, neither the idea nor the

number is based upon concrete research. this is just trying to roll back part of the epa rules without having to tell the american people. in 2014 within 32,000 people were killed in motor vehicle crashes. 32,000 reasons right there to encourage the adoption of promising safety technologies like automatic emergency braking. car companies should make our safer and also meet the fuel economy obligations. if they don't want to do that they should face the american people and explain how they want softer pollution standards. >> may i respond? >> we signed up for the program. as i noted, it is a

consumption mandate. i showed you a number of models that we have generated. we are doing our part. the issue would be over, but it is not. consumers are not buying the products that you want them to. >> i asked for the scientific method. do what you are already doing and get credit. so for all you have said is you are not the one. >> we are out of time. senator warren does have to vote. thank you. senator. >> chair, ranking member, thank you for holding this hearing. my home state of montana is a big state, the fourth-largest state, not as

big as alaska, but we have a dispersed population over 75,000 miles of roads, the second-highest rate of car ownership in the country which brings about unique challenges and extraordinary dependence. montana's extensive transportation system is a pillar of the economy and goes without saying it is imperative we keep people in freight moving as efficiently and safely as possible. today we have touched on regulations and standards. my concern with mandates in this domain, like so many others, is that they typically do more harm than good. based upon cases we have seen they are often unattainable, pencil lots of hard-working americans, montanans, and waste hard-earned -- hard-earned taxpayer dollars.

of the 17 and a half million vehicles sold last year only approximately 400,000 were plug-in hybrids and battery electric and fuel-cell vehicles not even reaching half of the goal to have a million. another case in point, congress mandated installation of positron control on freight rail tracks that carry passengers contracts with certain hazardous materials despite the best efforts the complexity and sheer scale makes full development and employment impossible. additionally president obama's fiscal year 2017 budget will request for billion dollars for the development of autonomous vehicles. meanwhile, automakers will invest a hundred billion dollars year globally on r&d to produce reliable and safe mobility solutions and

99 percent of this investment is from private,, nongovernmental sources according to the alliance of automobile manufacturers. .. to get there requires an investment on the part of

$100 billion that you've referentsed. it requires consumers playing ball because it's a consumption mandate and federal government being supportive. again, it's 99% private to induce the purchase of electric hydrogen vehicles. once we are shooting for a target, we have to find a way to get there and it's exacerbated by the success of the electrical engine. we are engaged in the research. we want these programs to succeed. it's good for the government and also because we have mandates to

make that happen because it's a trick, consumers want to do what they want to do and they are rational in their behavior. consumers are motivated by a different standard which enough is enough. if they can say $5,000 and apply that to a college education or to food on the table and not buy a hybrid, they may choose to do that. >> how do you see reducing the federal role in vehicle technology, innovation actually benefiting industry and consumer? >> so i think where -- where government could be most helpful would get rid of regulatory friction. we have mandate for the quarter of the marketplace. it's a rule that affects 25-35% of the country. we have the requirement and epa,

greenhouse gas requirement. if we had one national program in truth, it would be much more efficient to comply, would reduce the cost of the vehicles. that would speed up adoption. there's a way to square this but we have to give a regulatory burden and there's a chance for it to succeed. >> thank you, madame chair, sorry to be late. i was at an armed services hearing. first i should say that i'm excited that i just brought an electric car and i'm looking forward to using it. it seems to me and i apologize if i'm repeating because i haven't heard your testimony, but one of the most interesting aspects of electric vehicles seems to me the potential for a

more efficient utilization of the grid because most of the people would charge their cars at night which is the time when we have both excess capacity and excess capability on the wires. is that something that you've discussed, and if you haven't, can anyone of you wish to address, please? >> thank you, senator. let me say a few words about that because the department of energy recently released grid for effort. as part of that effort, there's going to be 220 projects looking at reliance and increasing ability to integrate sources of energy such as wind, power and solar power. a couple of key parts of that are studying the ability to integrate electric vehicles, fuel-cell vehicles into the grid so at fight when you have more

wind blowing, you can use cost effective power. during the day maybe the batteries are fuel to provide electricity to the grid. i think that's a great example why government has such a critical role in bringing the technologies into the marketplace and giving consumers more choices. if you look back over my lifetime, we have seen six major oil-price spikes that have dramatically slowed or reversed in the united states. all they do is look at the price gas today. we need to focus on investing on technologies that double-fuel economy, save people thousands of dollars, to tap into cleaner,

lower-carbon resources and give consumers much more in the marketplace. >> yes, ma'am. >> senator, in addition to the benefits of this mobile that david mentioned, it's building out the battery segment, scaling out options in the residential and utility and distributed energy stores, both new and postautomotive use batteries. >> like the tesla battery that came out of the automobile technology. >> correct. the tesla's partnership with panasonic, their giga factory which is building markets for energy source while building out -- building scale in the battery segment. >> but what i think a lot of people don't realize is that the grid is like a church built for

christmas day. it's got enough room for all the parishioners but on a slow sunday in march there's a lot of empty seat. the wires are for the heavier day of the year and in the winter, they're more productive, at least in my region of the country there's excess capacity. you can increase the load dramatically at night which presumably electric vehicles would without a dime of additional infrastructure investment. i think that's one of the attractive features of electric cars beyond the fact of freeing yourself from dependence on the volatile fossil-fuel price. >> in fact, one of the earlier studies from one of the labs found that estimated 73% of the vehicle fleet were electrified and without adding any new generation. >> i think that's an important point in the discussion other

than the vehicles themselves. i missed your testimony and just a few seconds left, are there new technologies on the horizon. the big issue is rain, i suppose, and where are we on battery technology and getting to the place where we are going to have 200-300-mile range? i remember a gentleman that was going to have batteries that were removable. it's like trading in your propane tank. what happened to that idea? >> a couple of words on that. first i'm holding a lithium cell that uses cobalt technology, it's being licensed to the auto industry that's helping drive like the chevy bolt. we are continue to go invest. we need to look at dramatically increasing our investments in technologies like these so the consumers can have those 2, 3,

400-mile-cell vehicles. >> battery technology have huge implications for roof-top solar, for example, and also again for grid stability. i think there's a national security interest here in decentralizing the grid so it's not subject to a catastrophic attack and could be more self-healing if you have distributing generation and storage. you're nodding and can someone say, yes. >> yes. >> yes, exactly. >> the one thing i would add is we go to extended-range batteries for 200 miles or more is actually the trend. we probably need more 220-volts of installation. there will be a need for grade,

potentially some support to the consumer who is today increaseed span and something we have to think about if we want people to access new cars like the chevrolet bolt which is offering much more mileage. >> madame chair, can i ask a follow-up question? >> i object. go ahead. >> sorry. >> now i do object. [laughter] >> are there -- are there any estimates of the number of -- i guess you told me 73% of the vehicles without changing the grid, do we have estimates of what would be required to go to 220, for example, does that require a new -- something new

to the house or isn't 220 what a clothes dryer uses? >> just quickly, so level-one charging is your standard 120 outlet. level two is 240 and that's what your dryer plugs into. and then there's the super charger. >> commercial and public installation, not something that you have in your garage. >> how many people can have for short ranges? do we have data on that. >> more than 80% of commuters have less than 40 miles a day. and i think their charging patterns is 80% of charging happens at work and at home and the last is public charging and

not that that's unimportant, that's the part that adds to long-distance travel, but, in fact, the existing infrastructure is supportive of charging and the cost of installing t-40 level charging, although they vary based on how old your house is, whether you have to upgrade the panel, have come down materially. >> that's a really important point. we have a workplace called the charging challenge. even at the level 120-level range. we are up to 250 partners. we are looking to work towards doubling that, you know, i own a plug-in vehicle, if i could plug in at work that could double the range that i could use on a battery. it's an incredibly effective

option. >> they are charging in the senate station, they charge an arm and a leg besides the car, but other than that we do have it. thank you, madame chair. >> i know no one answered senator king's question as to what happened to the battery that pops in and pops out. i was very intrigued because israel was doing that. the answer that i got, i don't mean to do your job, i think it was that israel is a very small country, so electric cars make more sense, and also they don't have many brands of cars. so one of the idea of that battery is it would be like high percentage of israelis would have the same car with the same battery, so i loved the idea of it but doesn't seem to work for the united states. does anybody -- is that kind of accurate? >> that is accurate. >> there are additional

challenges that the business model not only requires of standardized vehicle and battery configuration that can be swapped out. it also contemplates that you would have an inventory of very expensive batteries. >> yeah. >> that's too bad. >> so most countries notably because of the logistics challenge of rebalancing the loads of batteries that may not be in the right places and would be basically shipping batteries from one station to another to rebalance the load. but fast-charging basically at service stations is a solution 15-20 minutes you could get 50 or 90 miles extra for your car and then, you know, do the last part of your travel. that's part of the solution that would be the most effective.

>> that's the analysis i've seen. the opportunity cost tied in racks of batteries, that the owners of service stations have much higher valueses for those spaces. >> i'm glad that in addition to giving senator king three extra minutes i spent my minutes and 15 seconds on answering his question. yes, i'm just here to serve my other colleagues. [laughter] >> that's why i'm so popular. i was fascinated with all of the testimony and just, mr. freedman, incredible advances that we're making and including reducing the cost of high-energy, high-powered

batteries by more than 45% in three years. i mean, this is very, very exciting, i think. and -- but one thing we had a few years, i know the chairman remembers when we had members of the american energy innovation council, remember it was norman agustín and a guy francisco, general jones, i believe, and they were basically saying that we used to spend a higher percentage of our gdp on energy research, and at a time where, you know, in the paper today 2015, hottest year on record by significant margin over the previous hottest year which i think was -- all i know it was the previous year, and we have a

real problem here, and so my question is -- and it could be to anyone but specially mr. freedman, shouldn't we be spending more on basic research on this exact research as a percentage of our gdp? >> well, in short the answer is yes, absolutely, and in fact, that's why president obama joined with 19 other world leaders in november in kicking off an effort called mission innovation, which is about trying to not only get the united states but the globe to potentially as much as double spending on clean energy. the way government works really well is by working on the tough problems that industry can't do on its own and being in a position handoff those advances

to industry who can then provide more choices and technologies, more options to consumers so we can ultimately develop the low- carbon diet. >> making possible this revolution that we've had in getting gas and oil out of shell. that was a partnership and it came out of our national laboratories. it just to me -- i just think it's absolutely essential that we spend, i know we do it in -- we need to do it more in health care and national institutes needs more funding for things like alzheimer's but this is so important and the benefits, can you give me data on what the benefits are of the money that

we spend? >> well, a few examples. you talk about public health. in many ways these are public health issues. the investment we made to improve heavy-duet diesel engines, delivered 70 to 1 benefit to cost ratio as a result of the department of energy in invest. overall if you look at the last 20-30 years, we delivered 4 to 1 benefit. when we develop technologies that can save lives, safe fuel, cut carbon omissions and cut oil use, we would reduce taxpayer use. they spend about 50 times what we do on a sales basis on research and development than we do on clean energy. we need to close that gap. >> okay, well, thank you.

the chair -- the chairwoman at the begins of this was talking about being technology neutral and i've heard this analogy to a race and that you want -- you don't know which horse is going to win the race and having every horse on the track at the beginning is good, and, you know, we don't know if hydrogen now is behind by some analogies in this race but you never know at the end what's going to be the technology that -- that wins the race. so i agree with the chair. >> thank you. i want to talk about what alaskans are talking about right now, trucks because we drive a lot of trucks and i was prompted by this by senator danes, montana is big, you have a lot

of open spaces. alaska is big and we have a lot of open spaces. we haul a lot of gear. we just haul a lot of things, whether it's boats, four-wheelers, stuff you just move around. we haul it in some worst conditions as washington, d.c. is seeing here. we actually got snow accumulation. there's a lot of industry where we are going when it comes to these technologies. i noted in my opening statement, truck that can run on natural gas, but when we talk about what difference we are making with lighter vehicles to gain fuel efficiencies that's important. you can't have it too light because you will have trucks sliding all over the place. tell me where we are in -- in

meeting that consumer demand because in certain parts of the country, i would venture to say there's probably a lot of people that are interested in what's going on how we're making our trucks more fuel efficient but still safer and still very capable and -- and in addition to that, recognizing that in places like alaska or minnesota you've got some very cold temperatures, some of the things that we are talking about with the fuels are honestly not -- -- or maine. >> my gosh, i'm looking. my arctic coach is here. some of the issues that we face when we are dealing with colder

temperatures and trying to meet the fuel standards and requirements, again, with trucks. where are we with trucks? you all need to talk to me about trucks because that's what alaskans are talk to go me about when it comes to vehicles? >> i will spatter -- start by making two points. we have to respect what consumers want to do. the coffee program tries to do that by establishing a program. fingerprint base. >> what? >> footprint base. what cars get and larger cars get and it's all blended. so it does provide flexibility for trucks. now moving forward in the out years, the cliff or the rate of growth in terms of expectations on fuel efficiency for trucks is

rising, and so it is a trick but it's not the same number as a 54--and our mission as automakers is both to strive to comply what's the obligations of coffee but also to provide what consumers want and i think at this point in the earlier is working. >> we are on the technologies and advancements. go ahead. >> senator, the choices are also making their way into this heavier segments, you will see plug and hybrid suv's and crossover vehicles. the automakers are meeting the demands of their consumers as well as drive cycles. there's great advances being made in the next segment, for instance in medium duty.

when a utility goes out late at night, it can work on a site using electric power to active -- activate the bucket. in the heavy-duty segment there are there are on the road today. based on their range and performance they are optimized for that obligation. >> we are a three-truck family and we're still looking at the older trucks that are out there. >> and the story in many ways is actually right now it's a story about innovations that are dramatically boosting the efficiency of combustion

engines. they give you the hauling power of v8, cuts weight and a lot of those technologies were supported by investments from the u.s. government. i would argue there's massive, but when you look at the standards that mitch was talking about, you can roughly think of it is no matter the size of the vehicle you're going to double efficiency of the vehicle. for a truck that's even more valuable than for a car because you use so much more fuel, so you can save money on fuel, same hauling power, the same or even better safety with technologies that ford and gm and others have been helping lead the way on. nissan right now is about to introduce a commons diesel dramatically boosting fuel

efficiency, so we have great progress on the internal combustion engine. >> another thing i would like to add to this add enrail we are looking at the various molecule that we can get out of unique fuel properties associated with the different molecules, when combined in different ways and combined with what we can get from petroleum that's going to generate combustion of improvements. we will continue to make improve ments and i think those two together have a potential to give us fuel economy and reduce greenhouse omissions. i think there's a lot of room that hasn't been pursued there if you start not just at engine

efficiency not just on the fuel side for various bio-feed stocks. >> senator king if you want to wrap up question and then we will let our panel go at 11:30 as promised. >> thank you, madame chair. i think this is an important topic. i'm interested in the money in the finances of this, when will electric vehicles be fully competitive and not need a tax credit and particularly with regard to gas prices. i heard recently about one state whose tax credit went away and the sales plunged. the real question for any renewable seems to me is when can it stand on its own 2 feet. and i would like your thought about where this goes.

of course, i realize there's a lot of speculation. it's hard for anything to be competitive with gas at the price that it is today, but your thoughts. >> so, as you said, there's not sure about the future but i think it may take some time. that would be the short answer for a number of reasons. first, if you look at the evolution of the cost of the technologies, i mean, they have significantly reduced cost but if you want to have powers that has 200-mile or plus driving range, 50, 60-kilowatt hour of battery, you know, to fuel those cars and then the cost, sales ae 100-dollar per kilowatt hour, multiply by 50, you see what the cost is going to be. so it will remain a significant cost. but it depends on what the break