>> you mentioned bridges. i -- may or may not have a comment about this but we put a bicycle bridge over i-40 now. as i understand, it's a great bridge but it is very, very expensive bridge. ..

that should be easy to verify if that is in fact true. thank you very much. it has been a pleasure. [applause] he might give you at all like to have your book signed, he will be right over there signing books. get them here and pay for them upstairs. or if you have them with you, that is terrific. thank you so much for coming. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

she's

>> welcome to this and all a daily times festival of books on everything for mac of the building life. i am john weidner. i write for the nation magazine and i also host weekly pot cast, start making sense.u you guys have been here before. you know the rules and silence cell phones. no personal recordings. you can watch us on c-span when this is over if you want to relive those unforgettable moments.s. we will have time for questions at the end of a book signing afterwards where the session inside an area one. two of our authors appear today are prolific old pros. edward humes has written 14rittm

books. brian fagan has written more than 40. so let's start with jonathan waldman. this is his first book. [l [applause]tudied w jonathan waldman studied writing at dartmouth in the aston knigh university man center for science journalist impurities read far as at the "washington post," "the new york times," the agni reader. she has worked as a forklift driver. i want to get this straight. a summer camp director, a sticker salesmen, and climbing there and make a peer in his first book as rest, the longest were nominated for "the l.a. times" book prize inside. please welcome to "the l.a. times" festival of books, jonathan waldman. [applause] my opening question for you and

his wife a bigger threat to the united states military? isis or rest.row that [laughter]hi >> there's a guy in the pentagon would like you to throw that question not him. he is their nation's highest -ranked rasta official.. he has been fighting a goodow fight for about 10 years now. he is making friends on the hill with a lot of politicians. and among admirals in the navyvy whose day we can't keep going the way we're going, losing ships to rust. we can't lose them fast enough. he would date clearly i tried to say i did read in the look that rust is greater than all other natural disasters combined.

think about it this way. our most abundant element is attacking our most important material all the timeso everywhere. you say there's a ship yard up in northern california full of rusting naval vessels. the mac it was there. i think they're slowly gettinge rid of -- with the name of thate the reserve fleet. >> that's a nice way of putting it. >> in case you need rescue ships. that is where you go to get them. they are so rusty they are polluting the bay in san francisco and causing a bigia problem for california. i think they've slowly turned them over to texas but we kept them because we sort of had to peer this kind of an ugly political scenario. it happens all the time.

>> 180 billion aluminum beverage cans are manufactured every year. >> maybe that's every year. >> you need each one to be perfect. what happens if it's not perfect? >> i went to canton school as [laughter]s. and almost got kicked out for asking too many questions because what they do to keep from rusting makes some people in the industry uncomfortable because of endocrine disruptors. but referred to as timebombs are exhibiting timebombs behavior from the top down and said that it is made with my tolerance than anything on a spaceship sent up there.

every time i do this silly thing where i marvel at it because no one looks at the canon inks how amazing it is. when can rust from the inside out of the bottom-up and top-down candidates are in a tad part can fly at an hate udi has blinded eye has blinded people, severed people's achillesit tendon. you cap lawsuits. it is really ugly and vicious the basic holding of the canterbury runoff and recycle. i ran into mckeon and i refer to it as a corrosion material. every year a number of companies -- there's a hot market in energy drinks. i don't know if anyone here has invented in a come of you do and you want to sell them come you go to nature can manufacture in sand lake to put my stuff in your suntan. they said send it to us with a tested to see how corrosive it is. if it's too corrosive they will call you back and say you back and say you're such as battery acid.t an you need to change the formula.

that happens when i'm seventh times with all energy drinks.an >> tell me more about this can school. >> can and is a big industry. we are beverage consumers. pepsi, coca-cola, anheuser-busch, everybody -- water, everybody wants to put their stuff in a can and felt that way. the corporation down the road command colorado invites people -- they used to invite[l people and now they don't inks to me. [laughter] they invite people and i told them who i was and they actually said you couldn't come and they goofed up and sent me an e-mail that said welcome. here's one it is, here is what to wear. lunch is included. wit so i went.

they are familiarizing people in the beverage and due with what magic goes on at the can plant and why they are spending a dime a can to buy them by the billions. that asserted in sight to how it goes. i didn't get a diploma. they were not happy with me. but on the day my book came out, the chief corrosion guy from thn packaging month showed up in an e-mail that night avoiding me a can school diploma.you -- >> a lot of your book about rust is about the rust fighters that this might be a small thing but really got to me. a disproportionate number of the people you call them rust fighters have mustaches. can you explain this? or can you explain anything else?

as a group. >> broadly i think that engineers have the wisdom that something are not worth fighting and i think facial hair is probably one of them. i want to be clear i think it's a great position to take. shaving every day as we are. i have a lot of comments on amazon saying you have a strange mustaches session. maybe i do. i think two thirds of male engineers have mustaches. they basically are no female engineer so i can't say anything about that. hey, talk to people who do some promotion. engineering 98% male.r] fact. i think we'll move on now. >> will come back to jonathan.li ed humes is a pulitzer

prize-winning journalist, author of 14 books including our duty love affair with trash which is featured here at the bookk festival couple years ago. his writing has been in "the wall street journal," "new york times" and other places that he's the recipient of a pen award. his new book is called "door to door: the magnificent, maddening, mysterious world oftf transportation". it's official pub date is today turned out. this book is brand-new. the book has a blurb from the great cuban, founder 350.org, the leading organization fighting climate change, one of our heroes. and ed humes is in "the new york times" on the page. welcome, treated water. -- ed humes. [applause] >> you open your book with armageddon.

how many people here remember the day they closed the four or five for how many hours? or did ours? 19 >> 53. >> first time since 1952. the prediction was total disaster. stay in your homes or do not go out. what happened? >> we were supposed to fix traffic and it did. for 53 hours. the great irony was closing all those planes improve traffic throughout the los angeles area. a great success on that front. the field of dreams phenomenon if you build it they will calm. more have come to fill the vacuum trade. one year after the extra lane open, it took several minutes longer to make the commute.

$1.3 billion on their commute.ar so did this myth did this and it did exist better traffic will get better traffic would be better if we pour more money into making more lanes for carse i've never were. and yet we are trapped in this ribbon-cutting love of building new lanes and big infrastructure when there's this thing is stuck in mud of the op-ed piece, a lot cheaper ways to do what karma debt and did. what th that really i thought was important because it showed how you can successfully makewe traffic that are without really new stuff. >> i think i have a great solution which is i stay home order everything from amazon. gps brings it to my house. ups is driving around every days anyway.

it's not the solution forseems everyone? >> is sort of seems like it is so convenient.hi we have a diabetic cat. not a nice cabin we have to buyy the special cap in the best place to get this from amazon. i clicked on that one day and it arrived in like nine hours. the same day delivery world we are hurtling towards this terrible for traffic. it is going to kill us.. it's going to drown us. i talked to the head of ups and los angeles. any given day they are moving 2 million packages around l.a., delivering them. they used to take all of thoseby by the truckload to stores. let's say the average eps ban has 120 packages on it. all of that goes to one place. the orders of magnitude of more trips that have to be taken to move the same amount of good. the head of the l.a. headquarters for ups to )-right-paren over this, but i

think it's fair to happen. he is maddened by the simultaneous desire of consumers to have that convenience and get their absolute hatred of having more trucks on the road delivering stuff in battles against things like extendingee the 710 freeway in completing that after 40 years of not connecting to where it is supposed to go. we wanted on we don't want to pay for a kind of situation.n. we are facing another kind that they are hurtling towards the digital economy. >> are you suggesting i should martyr so much stuff? >> that was my last book. we do get and accumulate so mucc stuff from far off. that's really what this "door to

door" idea came out of. looking at my own hobbit and one day in the life of what it take to keep us moving and keep us in socks and shoes and all thatan stuff that comes in at the port of los angeles.ng 30%, 40 but an is coming up the road that we don't want tosh. finish you dig down and see howi much we are investing in what we do every day. >> you have some statistics which i questioned. the morning cup of coffee covered 30,000 miles. this bothers me. the circumference of the earth, i looked this up. 25,000 miles. how could it be from colombia to los angeles -- >> i assume we all drink colombian coffee. maybe you should reconsider.

>> a lot of coffee drinkers lend of course. the one i was picking apart the starbucks french roast which has three or four different kinds of beans. if you look at the african and south american sources, the fact that germany is sixth or seventh largest importer of coffee to the united state if they don't grow up being but a lot of coffee moves they are. the web -- we are just talking the beans. it took much more than you might think. if we talk about the commute on the four or five, the transportation of the water, tha milk, sugar, the packaging the coffee comes in. the coffee maker is self which has even more miles on it. you start to see the s transportation for red is much larger. >> you are right. i hadn't counted the cup with

the milk, sugar, machinery. you've got me a coffee. what about the smartphone. this one is 165,000 miles. the circumference of the earth is 25,000 miles. how can the smartphone take 165,000 miles?ne >> is going with matt does. the iphone was my model but i believe all smartphones are similar. if you go to the ontario airport and look at the tarmac in the palace of these plain unmarked boxes under 24 hour guard with the constant video surveillance. want to you within it, but everybody knows they are worth more than their weight in gold. every day they come out of china, stop at alaska to refill and come into ontario. they filter out the rest.

the thing is if you follow the assembly with the home button but the touch i.d. sent to run it, it not only has -- thank you. sages followed that one humble feed at the button you turn your screen on what goes back and forth between china and japan multiple times is one part is attached to an assembly and mr. dennis country and up )-right-paren attaching comes from another living thing goes through this incredibleause procedure. but no one has 12,000 miles on it because it's constantly on the move as it grows and sophistication and it's finally assembled at the plant in china and shipped out to the united states. there are materials, and thele rare element that cannot renounce, all of those have toey be sourced from all over the world.

the precious metals. it's almost impossible to raise the actual raw material. apple is better than most companies that making that information.as it's astonishing. i have a toyota. the 30,000 parts in that car went to the moon and back before the odometer badged one-mile because everything we do is global. 95% of shoes come in through the port of los angeles from foreign countries. the everyday stuff for years. not just the exotic stuff has tremendous upgrade from horrify transportation. >> you've had some horrifying pollution statistics on the supertankers. >> favorite meaning and when you get close to them, you see that the somewhat rust. you realize two miles away. the one i happened to go up was a car carrier in the role it on

and off.it it's literally a flooded parking garage. bigger the one to come into this festival. just amend. the numbers i have is 160 of those container ships. 160 of them on the open these emit particulates and smog causing emissions equivalent to all of the cars in the world. it's about 3%, 4% of carbon emissions as well. at any one time from the 100 of the ships are docked in the ports of los angeles among each were waiting to talk and those together have greater emissions than all the cars in thes country. us. astonishing. >> are we feeling bad enough now? i got to ride in a google car, too. that was fun.

they not what was the google car light? >> they swear they didn't. they have programmed this car to drive mountain view. the first on the road is the speed limit. it's rear-ended all the time. but we are driving right through the campus and i'm chatting with the operators aren't doing anything other than monitoringwh what the car is doing and showing me what the machine vision look like. walking across the street for some google coder. talk about facial hair. he was in his own world. yet a full-size laptop on if i'd like to screen out unless typing on it as he was crossing the street. he came out from between two parked cars.

if that was me driving would've been flying flying laptop,p,andh flying nerd. this car stopped on a dime. he looked across the street. i am convinced that we woulddwew eliminate 90% of car crashes if that was the major mode of individual transportation. it was impressive.e. >> i'm feeling better.land, trai next, brien fagan was born in england, trade and archaeology at humber college from 1959 to 1965. he served as keeper ofer of pr prehistory at the living stone museum and northern rhodesia, which is now zambia where he was involved in excavating a series of thousand-year-old farming villages.. he's a pioneer in taking archaeology out of academia and

make it relevant to his event in newly independent african nations. eventually he left africa, came to the united states to teach and from 1967 to 2003, he served as professor of anthropology at you see santa barbara. since then, he's been a full-time writer and independent caller. he's written a least 40 books, maybe 50. most of them are historic including the great warming 2008 which was a "new york times" bestseller tells the story has 2010 boat his new book is about

how animal shaped human history called the intimate bond. in this book, brian fagan writes about dogs, goats, sheep, donkeys, pigs, cattle, camels and horses, but in real life he lived with cats, fish, turtle and rabbits. please welcome back to "the l.a. times" festival of books, brian fagan. [applause] >> thank you, ladies and gentlemen. i have been out on a container ship but the pilot from san francisco bay, truly the most right embedded command under. he turned in its own length it 830 feet long and somehow are f going around in front of it andm

he just looked and said nothing. i just kept going. there's nothing i can do. as i think about by far the most interesting and the most neglect did is the donkey. the bounty is a very cool animal. it has a number of advantages. it's very well adapted to semi arid conditions. it is easily trained and keeps up with very steady pace and it can be used in desert. i have two extraordinary experiences doing this. the first was discovered the work of a talk to those who have traced an ancient trail for the mono to be away for us in the middle of this era.

200 miles.s. it is used for centuries and they would take these enormous caravan and donkeys. a third of the donkeys carried water in chairs in the third. the product, which was semi precious stones. believe it or not, they've notit only found the track. they found the skeletons of the donkeys. they found the camps, all in the desert preserved. these guys for the pickup trucks of the ancient world. they were our tiredness.s. and the other one was even -- much barbs skewer. there is a very well known trade by donkeys, black donkeys between northern iraq in a town in central turkey in based on the archives there, bush of

cuneiform writing. is there anyone here who can decipher cuneiform? don't be shy. i got into correspondence with the charming gentleman and i said to him, he wrote back and said there were six of us. we argue. we quarrel, but we drink. and he gave me all thise corres information. it could even reconstruct the correspondence of wives of their husbands, telling them to bring jewelry. they got details of how the caravans fail, donkeys which were the same that offense. the donkeys are worth nothing. they were anonymous pickups. but they linked the ancient world, even more so initially than a camel.

>> your book is a history book good bird you debate the history of the domestication? >> it began -- a lot of this is just the beginning. some in northeast africa where they investigated them out of the wild african donkey. but by 3100 b.c., gary berry also for donkeys in asymmetry associated in upper egypt and the skies were very good considerable ceremony. though it may look close late, they found they had been overloaded and were tired. these were draft animals. but clearly they were such important that they were buried carefully because the no-space, in an economy, really the most tangible possession you have is your animals and a thousand yeal

years later -- excuse me, nobles had 1000 donkeys. imagine the cost of looking after those. >> 3100 b.c. for the domestication of the donkey. a thousand years earlier. >> i had that needs idea that it was the key to transportation. this seems i've been wrong about their spears >> you are indeed very wrong. >> that is incorrect. imagine a world where the only way of transporting everything was either on people's backs or engineers.so t so that may be extraordinarilyal important. wheels came in later. they were brought in mesopotamia and you had to have animals that

would hold those and you didn't the animals back. that is much more cumbersome. that's another world. >> i also love your chapter onhl the campbell, another creature that didn't tell a card that itself was burden. how many of you have written a camel? camels are extraordinary piece. what absolutely electrified me wasn't the camel itself, which was remarkable. it's adapted and when people put them on caravans, you found the water and the camel took you there. all things was the saddle, and the type of saddle on the backck of the initial saga was a simple one is saudi arabia on the backa

of the camel. but it got better when they put the camel saddle on the hump because at that point you could start fighting and you could throw your caravan. even later they developed a long distance saddle which enabled people to cross the sahara and carry the load.an that may give you a statistic. in 1492, two thirds came from west africa across the sahara on camel back.el this is a pretty importantbu animal. but it's not the 405 freeway. so today -- today are animals

are either something we eat or something we keep as pets. the animals that what you pretreat horribly. the animals that the truetype pets are members of our family. you also say there's a historyro to this, a history to the household pet as a loved member of the family and the history of cruelty to the animals we eat. >> it is a very serious history. i was horrified by it. my wife and daughter from a real genuine animal lovers. they love rabbit. we have cats. our bed, my wife, me and threead cats. here is my wife. you're the cat, here is me.uld but cats are animals and decided they would adopt us. not domestic animals like dogs.

a century and a half ago there were no engines. everything was carried by animals or by water or by humans. just imagine, which i go into in the boat, the logistics of keeping philadelphia claimed were new york claim. i believe they're a quarter of a million animals, pack animals in chicago in 1880 and their organizations which took the animals when they died and picked them up and recycle them. one of the reasons the national society came to england isti because of cruelty to animals. that is absolutely horrifying.rh today we eat animals. we treat a lot of animals as humanely although this is

beginning to change. and yet we have all of these thb animals. i don't do anything with rabbits. i'm not particularly fond of rabbit. i know a lot about them at this point. this extraordinary dichotomy with no solution. >> i was especially horrified to your section on the ponies. i had never heard of pit ponies before. >> i'd quite trouble with that because oddly enough there is not a great deal of literature. >> explain what is a pit pony. >> a pony which spent the life underground mainly in coal mines, moving the coal from the face to the bottom taken up tot the surface and these animals, which actually were treated reasonably well spend their lives underground.

they had trouble adjusting to the late. this is a huge, huge population. i believe in england 70,000. but this died out by about basically wore today were gone and there were people trying to make their lives better and abolish them. bobo really abolish them was the invention of the electric devices you could use underground. whether we like it or not. >> i want to see if our panelists have any comments or questions on each other's presentations. >> my book was born on a sailboat is there but this one i'm now relies he had your cruising guide book on the boat. we were following every word.

>> thank you. [applause] i didn't go anywhere. >> it was an interesting book to write week has when you leave here, to go out there and say ta yourself i don't know this place ,-com,-com ma what landmarks which he used to get there? this is what pilots do. you have landmarks. that's the mindset. so think about that when you leave. if you got lost like i said i'm on august sued or italian architecture. [laughter] which it is. >> it's a nice way of putting it. >> i said that at the information booth people almost died. i'm an englishman. i can get away with it..

other panelists comments or questions back and forth? >> i'm just fascinated by the donkey history. was that the first domesticated transport animal before oxen and horses? >> courses are they. nurses are much later, about 8500 d.c. of course are talking about huge development. it was assassinated and they could use genghis khan about things. at the donkey was there earlier series. you can use oxfam, but oxen have to be watered every 24 hours. donkeys point to mesopotamia with the mediterranean.. they linked egypt. they linked afghanistan with countries further south and so on and so forth. and the meal, which is a hybrid

of the donkey was one of the major transport animals of the roman empire. much neglect that historic. the animals are very understated. one more. >> i'm surprised you don't have more. >> i'm surprised they don't. we have a horse had my wife has a horse is not on the property. she is now threat in a dog. fortunately we have a diabetice cat. >> i got the advantage of aluminum cans without they did did not rest. >> i use the word rest colloquially or oxidized. all but three medals oxidizer can be made in some way. but aluminum tubes wade.

>> it makes it stronger until certain point at which point it falls apart. a lot of metals form a good layer. exposed to salt water or sent and that can keep oxidized in the. [inaudible] >> at the way of creating a protect good layer on the metal. there's only like six ways you can protect metal from corroding. there's actually not that much you can do. i couldn't have written -- i guess i could've kept going, but there's only so many angles you can take. i didn't actually go into anodizing arlette terkel plating. >> you don't have a vivid picture of all the different battles on a sailboat that oxidized in different ways. >> while on the sailboat we mostly had stainless steel.

but what about this 1970erglass fiberglass boat down in mexico. i was actually sort of sent there as a pioneer by my buddies to investigate and see if this is the boat we wanted to buy, which is a terrible move but it went down there with a camera w and took a lot of pictures and it looked less od and like it could go. it was a great voter turnout. attackers sailing and the first time it broke off and fell in oi the water and the wind vein onta the stern almost fell off intolf the water and the track settles some of the blocks in place were rested. i mean, every part of the boat that had to do something would do that because of rust. >> last week they had room off one of the boats.

so the funny part is the rest of the boat didn't get me to a book. it is going to the hardware stores and asking what do i do about this and they told me so many different things that i said they don't know what they are talking about. that got to me me to a conference call and make arrests. i figured the navy probably have the same issues i had in a state that i met to rest official and said i didn't know that god existed. >> well, i did take some notes on the coat can, which prevents but the whining. the lightning has been linked to early, obesity and miscarriage and of course cancer.ea that is an raspy or currently, obesity, miscarriage and can't there. do you actually drink it in cans

or do you drink in bottles? >> i don't drink it. i'm not your audience for that. >> even better. >> campbells recently calibrated dp a minute altogether. because of the attention the subject is getting. i don't know the -- the chemical industry is pretty funny. we sort of assume the chemical is okay until we study and find out it's not a there's only a handful of chemicals on the list that are not okay. bpa is sort of entering thekay consciousness that they not okay chemical. i had no idea what they line the cans with. you have to sneak into canned school to find out. they have not told me. i can't even say it gets better. it is something else we don't know about. i guess you have to be a cynic

to assume it's just a chemical. unless they are drinking water. >> are there no medals that don't corrode or oxidized? >> there are a handful. the good news is that coke cans with different uses keep them from rusting. i found out early on that it's minimal to be put in a can. because it does proteins and it's not very acidic. i liked when they told me was made for kids in cans were made for. >> a map point they will open it to question to the audience. please go to the microphones of the audience of c-span can hear your question and our policy here is if at all possible, please make your question in a question. we will start over here. >> this is for ed.

i know there's a lot of variables involved in this question but if you have a general said, if increasedab technology is changing, you talked about the number of miles that goes into producing e, theing like an iphon things that it replaces, what is the cost benefit analysis in terms of energy put into that system? >> if it's a source more locally? >> way. or e-mail would replace paper and postage or driving aroundtht and many other things that technology replaces, is that utilizing our natural resources better or worse? >> there are a lot of variablesa do not. one of the future visions that some futuristic that's really just been talking about the

future of 3-d printing technology as more ubiquitous than less specialized than it is now here they are already making some amazing things with that ii technology. match inserted the death of g shipping in general we don't fight the good, but you buy the software, the app that makes it good and that some local location if not in your own household, for some things who actually created. sort of the return of local be manufacturing i've been competitive with global manufacturing without the related carbon emissions. you still have to move the raw material around that you makeav the stuff out of it erratically it could be a much smaller impact on the world if we did it that way. something transformative but also mean the end of millions of jobs.

you know, truck drivers, one of the most common occupations inii america. they would be a lot of unintended consequences as well. >> over here. >> 3-d printing. we did some research that current of the most popular product to be printed on 3-d printers is a 3-d cell fee. [laughter] >> thank you for that. the question for you, could you talk more about the impact of rust on the military. for example, is this really a risk of the reserve forces or is this in combat forces as well? >> greater risk for nuclear weapons. >> courtesy of eric schlosser, he found out at the height of the cold war we were trying to make a nuclear missile safer, so we actually put a tape of a

cadmium orange tape on there so if something happened on the new trends couldn't pass through and trigger a reaction. unfortunately it rested in place so someone had hit the red button and said let's go with their nuclear volley, nothing would've happened. this was with -- i'm going to get the name wrong, but our most powerful nuclear weapons and i sort of bow down to eric schlosser for finding that because it must have taken him a decade.th but the pentagon has done a lot of work -- he uses the word material a lot. they studied with the fact on the readiness of planes and truth in both and they've actually calculated as weight in which planes cost of the most to repair because of rust. you can put a dollar figure as

an f-15 with so much coming age pound cost so much in corrosiona repair. it has taken certain planes out of commission for a month coming year and they work the numbers every which way and that this is actually -- the guys in the navy said the number one threat aside from people who are actually engaging in war. it is a $20 billion the year problem to the military. dan and i are it's like a fight of his life. he says he does this for the warrior. w he doesn't want weapons suffering in the hands of our soldiers. it's a good site. >> so actually thinking about the chart drivers, the bigger threat for truck drivers is the self driving vehicle. but the question i have was that you could just relate each are any of you, great stories about

the law of unintended consequences in particular with regards to things like invasive species.ik the vietnamese invading search in ecosystems now, are there other stories you have come across assertive good intentions gone bad?>> j >> you started -- >> that's about as big as i thought great they are. >> i think one of the biggest disruptions of recent decades is the invention of the shipping container because that really is the very low tech development that enabled off shoring and outsourcing of so much of our economy. suddenly shipping long distances became much more efficient. 4000 years we used to load ships

like you pack your trunk going away for a vacation. maybe they had a crane that helped them. you've got to see how these container ships have these cranes that just drop them downy on rails and this backend so orderly and all the goods are sealed away from the port if there's no, no boss. there is some of that do not like i used to be. 20% losses for every ship that in the old days. everybody thought it's going to lower the cost of good, but of what it really enabled assessment and everything offshore, which is the topic in our election this day's weatherr that's good or bad for then economy is another question. at the unintended and &-ampersand consequence. >> do you have unintended consequences from the domestication of animals who would like to mention? >> basically, that's a very, very complex question because if

you look at the domestication o- animals, -- >> into the microphone, please. >> the human relationship with the environment, with the landscape, with the land, with each other, with animals whoofin become property, with the animals themselves. immediately, the early stages relationship and ultimately the animal becomes a commodity. and away at the container because on one hand you've gotma all these changes, but on the other hand he got much more interaction with people and as you've got donkeys and horses and camels, the distances got larger and larger. and then there's the whole business, you may do this.

it may take months to get there and you don't even know the person at the other end. so you get into this whole business of anonymous trade.tr there were a lot of changes that have come along. >> yes. >> i was wondering your thoughts about the impact of drones. >> yes, is the drone the new donkey or is it something else? >> use the boss. bathmat the industrialdustri revolution. [laughter] thank goodness. >> i think this idea of amazon sending an army out to deliverss individual packages is not going to happen in any foreseeable future. it is kind of silly really in the faa kind of to amazon page and you can use that as long as

you have an operator. you'd have to drive there in your truck and deploy your drone to deliver. the companies that are itching to have drones are companiesnd like ups and federal express because they run these crazy overnight flights shipping goods. they are sitting there for 95% of what they do. if we have goods movement, they are going to be big airliners, not the ones banging on your door. >> i want to turn writing itseld and ask each of our panelists where did you get and what was w the hardest thing about writing this book? we'll start with the youngest person. >> the hardest thing? none of it was hard.

>> well that's a good answer. that is very fun getting access, talking to people. one of the big discussion incuns journalism is to write what youa know are right but you don't know. i think it's fantastic you get the opportunity to write what you don't know. i think we need to know some things, you sort of form, i don't know, a picture what it's like and you don't go down certain rows. i didn't even know there were roads to go down. >> my wife likes to say that i'm the happiest guy she knows 11 months out of the air and then there's some awful deadline i have to meet. apparently i stop shaving and i'm high to be around. >> it's cool. you know, i'll go for an animal

reference. the thing that makes my writing the vast our dogs. we have three rescued greyhounds, which are kind of -- [laughter] well, you know, they are racing dogs, but mostly they are coucht potatoes because they will have themselves around me while i'm writing an opinion when i need to get out of my desk and want to get some exercise. they are also personal trainers. plus one of them is named pirate and wicket mail to the house. >> where did you come up with this idea in what was the hardest thing about writing the book?th this >> my asian was one veryt, tough-minded new york lady told me that i'd written enough about climate that it was time to do something else.

and the animals in my life and i look at domestication -- i wask, updating the textbook and i got into it and discovered no one had ever done is. so i got going. h my cats have a central role. they specialize in to things. one is sitting in the outbox, which is fine. and the other one is when mikey if they decide they get out. largely because they want to.o. they get up and arrange themselves on my keyboard. the other solution is to dedicate the books to them. the last book i dedicated two my main cat whose name is atticus cap at this boost, otherwise known as the great keyboard theater.0 book

>> between 40 and 50 books as i understand it. tell us how you did this. how can you write that much in a lifetime? >> 40 years of r&d techter] deprived.nd the [laughter] >> this is not like writing your life story or some pain. >> it all started in africa were as worked in the museum at the time of independence and the rest of question. you've got all this history and archaeology. how are you going to put it? i got involved in writing for that. and then i almost gave upt archaeology because i got her ad board i did wasn't a very good excavator. the archaeologist taught me to write for the public.bara when i came santa barbara i wasa appalled to find the textbooks. that's when i started to i wrote textbooks and then i got into other stuff than i had to come

one of the very few people and archaeology have rights to the general public full-time job and it's become a full-time job. i have commitments becauseye there's nobody doing it. so i've written a lot. >> these are commitments to more books.alute yo .. can you tell us what the next books are? >> the next book, which is almost ready to go. i have been working on for two years and it's a global history of fishing. which stops with the industrial revolution. [laughter] seriously, there-- [inaudible] >> after that i have a book, a short book with a friend in england on the history of beds. which is originally titled: life in the horizontal plane. [laughter]