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♪ ♪ dividing a strategy to keep donald trump from clinching the three primary states indiana, new mexico and oregon perpetrating is from indiana we are following this story takes for being with us.

a flurry of the emails from all three campaigns. what is behind the strategy? >> this is a strategy out of desperation for ted cruz and john kasich. they're looking at the remaining primary map to see that their chance to stop donald trump from clinching the republican nomination outright may be quickly disappearing and what kasich and cruz have decided is not to run against each other with the other has a pretty good chance or better chance to beat trump's one on one so in indiana ted cruz effectively is in a one-on-one race and kasich has said i will not go hard but then in exchange ted cruz has ceded in mexico and

oregon and declaring a one-on-one there that those states are favorable to his centric brand of politics and he stands a better chance to beat trollop of course, -- a course with trying to keep him under that magic number of 1237 delegates. host: we will know if this is effective as a strategy but is it too little too late for the cruz kasich campaigns? >> that is why appearing that even at ted cruz own rally today spoke to a woman who wondered out loud if it was too little too late. you can look at this many different ways. with the january or february but the field did start to think in having an arrangement where certain candidates basically did not

bother in other states. if it doesn't work you will hear more why didn't this happen six weeks ago? >> is an unusual and urgent arrangements. >> in recent history it is unusual in general for openness of a political race to come together. one thing that is important it fuels the argument that donald trump is making that the party establishment is going behind closed doors to steal this from me and when this is in play in view --

played you that adds fuel. host: that is wrynecks question because he is running the anti-establishment campaign and it seems to feed into that. >> it really does. up until now complains mainly were centered on the arcade in process not something that people understand or political reporters police understand so only on those grounds to say we're working together to take down donald trump to make easier for them to digest. host: account where the primary is don june 7th so

how will this play out? >> according to the plan that cruz and kasich set in motion is a cruz victory with indiana that shows pretty close so that is far from assured that even after today. then a series of lessons with new mexico and oregon and john kasich would with those you have a situation depending on california it could keep trump under that magic number so essentially you can have micro primaries to make that possible for the state's to split their delegates so if they are successful then it is somewhere below not at 1227 the somewhere below 1200

were they can make the case with the support he needs for the nomination. >> you mentioned earlier how one woman talked about a response to this strategy but what do you hear from the staff and those attending the events? >> this will sharpen the line in indian and there has been anxiety there was of. cruz ad that was launched so clearly his allies are worried. that with this development to say they won the race is the choice of they have more credibility but indiana is a must win even if they don't necessarily say that out loud that would be

devastating to ted cruz next week. host: covering politics from the "washington post" thanks for being with us. >> join the conversation on facebook you and twitter. >> that secretary will probably give our delegate votes to the next president of united states. ♪

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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible] gear we go. a mower guest is james clapper director of national intelligence this is the first visit with our group thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule. in the family business his father was a career army intelligence officer he drew upon intensive farms all over the world and that his future wife pat and in than

a farm in northern virginia has surprising her dad was also in the central intelligence business working at the nsa. growing up he would listen to the philadelphia police department to track operations. [laughter] began his military career in the marine corps reserve transport to the rotc program and was commissioned to the university of maryland. he saw service in vietnam with his daddy was also on duty and that combat missions he rose to become a three-star general before retiring from the military in 1995. after several years of executive positions turning to government service service as the national gsp

shall undersecretary of defense for intelligence before being stored in as the fourth national director of intelligence in 2010. al on to the mechanics. thanks to our underwriter northrop grumman no live blogging or tweeting or finding of any kind while the practice is under way to give us time to let the best says there is no embargo at 10:00 when it ends. we will either kill several pitchers to all reporters as soon as a breakfast ends. if you'd like to ask a question send me a subtle signal i will happily call on as we have time available. given the key interest:it myself to one question and

ask you restrain the urge of a multi-party series of as many reporters can talk to our guest. i will give him the opportunity to make opening comments then we will move around the table. the floor is yours. >> this is precedent-setting. >> i have 270 days left. [laughter] the new book the president's secret describes ms humorous focusing on the daily brief but not as interested as some predecessors to have discussions progressively

who briefs the president power described the intelligence consumer and how they deal with the white house? >> i cannot be in comparison to any of their president because this is deal the one i have but with six years' experience of president obama to be gracious and astute a faithful reader of the president's daily brief that in the past i know he does because of the references he makes that is

supplemented by us session we have every day schedule permitting with additional briefing items that complement what is in the president's daily brief. i need each one has his own style and method of adjusting intelligence sodas president obama. >> that community is neglected. >> on the contrary with the

oval office is the fact we have full range of interagency meetings from the national security adviser that the president himself chairs the requires intelligence the national-security apparatus is driven by intelligence. so across the board that pervades the national-security apparatus. >> where are you? >>

[inaudible] >> clearly this is ongoing into military litigation handled in accordance with justice or a province should not comment specifically any espionage case by definition is serious. >> asking about encryption road administration comply with those court orders? >> are really can answer

that the issue with encryption is people take those absolute positions i think we're in the intelligence community that the director of the nsa has ben pretty consistent in support of encryption and somehow we need to find a balance. of those technicalities or how we arrive there but that is characteristic of way to find to thread the needle with security in the context

in that what we are still pursuing. so i will not take a position on the legislation for with the president said assuming the absolutist positions. >> director i have the few more questions on the encryption issue. former cia director has said that encryption is more of an issue for the law-enforcement community not the intelligence community. >> i can't hear. >> how much of the encryption and for the intelligence community nsa

or cia and did day try to find fault abilities to help the fbi tracked? >> elena speak to that latter point but i will tell you that that the snowden level revelations that the onset of encryption was accelerated by seven years and it has had and is having major profound effect to collect against terrorist. the most sophisticated by far user of the internet and the technologies that our available privately to end encryption.

so that is a major inhibitor or plotting that is going on via others. with the growing availability with those of unbreakable encryption in's. >> kristin? >> talk about the 28 pages that are classified that was said on meet the press it could be several weeks before they could be declassified. also what is going on right now or how much longer it might take. can you talk about the speculation there is time from 9/11?

>> back to the question. [laughter] or from under the bus, we are in the position of trying to coordinate interagency positions on the declassification of the 28 pages. that the white house told them that they hope to have it completed by june and i think that is a realistic goal. and i will just stand at that.

. . first of all the current set up is, that building, that facility has one of the lowest facility condition indexes of any such facility in the intelligence community. it's very old. the building was historically preserved and goes back to the 40s. it has inadequate electrical and plumbing structure.

there's a railroad track behind it that we have no insight into what's in the rolling stock and it's in the floodplain. other than that it's a good facility. to its credit, we did all it we could to sustain the building and the facilities and the quality of life for the employees there. it needs a new facility. he's the director of nga and it's his recommendation, because this process is not finished yet, his recommendation is that it be located in a site, another site in st. louis. obviously we knew from the get-go that one delegation or the other was going to be unhappy about this decision-making process.

since it's not over yet, i'm not going to prejudice that one way or the other. i will simply say i have no basis for counter mandating his decision. >> yes sir, given given your extensive background from a marine rifle man to a lieutenant general of the air force and the head of the department and now director of national intelligence. i know you don't aid into political matters, but giving your extensive background, i'm i'm wondering if you can tell us how important it is that there be a steady hand on the ship at state. >> there's a lot of parties in the last several months and they all want to know about some of these candidates and what's

going to happen to the united states. their nervous and concerned. how does that affect your job? how relevant is it or doesn't it make any difference at all? >> personally doesn't make a lot of difference to me because i'm out of here on the 20th of january 2017. certainly you worry about rhetoric on the campaign trail. i think that history has been that once a president is inaugurated and his office and realizes the burden and response ability's of the position, position, i think that has a tempering effect on anyone. i think it will here regardless of who's elected. >> the other, i would make, i am struck with how simple things are on the campaign trail and how those very same issues are

very hard in the confines of the situation were in. >> can you give us an example. >> just about any example you want to name, there are far more complexities, policy policy and legal implications two things then would appear on the campaign trail. i'm not going to site-specific examples at risk of finger-pointing one candidate over another. >> let me give you a sense of where were going next. we have several other individuals. >> subtly, i know we we need to keep it short. >> this is just my a test as how, as an old man, i can remember names.

[inaudible] they were asking for a public estimate. some of them have asked for it before but they believe it's possible and they're okay with a one-time privacy concern that would arise from such an estimate. is it possible for you to give an estimate to them and you plan to do so publicly before 2017? >> first i have to say the surveillance act is to the nations safety and security, this tool is a terrific producer of critical intelligence this country.

if we could've made such an estimate and such an estimate were easy to do an explainable without compromise, we we would have done it a long time ago. we are looking at several options now, none of of which are optimum, they all have drawbacks. the irony is as we pointed out many times, to actually render an accurate number, we we have to be more invasive and identify more u.s. persons then we were to come up with an active number. many people find that unsatisfactory, but that is a fact. we are looking at this, we were before i got the letter. i read about in the media before i received it, and we are going to do our best. any methodology we come up with

will not be completely satisfactory to all parties. >> who's next? >> thank you very much. thank you mr. director for doing this. the question is this, is there any evidence that isis or al qaeda are planning any actions in the coming month that would influence the u.s. elections, and do they have, are they encouraged in any way by trump as a candidate? >> i cannot point to any evidence that would indicate a preference on the part of isis as to who is elected in our election. whether or not they might do something that could have a bearing on it, well they could in particularly if they do something in this country. that would obviously have some impact.

it could certainly influence how people vote in the election. >> earlier this month the president address some of the security concerns online saying that it had a victory demand on government. when it comes to that philosophy , what expectations should americans have for online privacy to receive proper security? >> i think they should have reassurance despite the media because of the many safeguards, oversight by all three branches of the government, aggressive oversight, that we are going to be as precise as we possibly can be in exploiting the internet for foreign intelligence purposes. i often long for the house to

invade the cold war where we had two telecommunication systems so that if we collected against the one dominated by the soviet union, there was almost assurance that we were not going to collect information on u.s. purses. with the advent of the internet, everything is interconnected. so all those billions of innocent transactions by millions and millions of innocent people are all mixed up with various activities by nefarious people. so the challenge for us in picking out the needles from the haystack, hundreds and thousands of haystacks without in any way jeopardizing the privacy of americans.

believe me, we go to and have gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure that those rights aren't infringed upon. by by the way, all of us are american citizens and i certainly care about, as does everyone else of our own privacy as well. >> mi alright from the the monitor? >> tell me about the dangers of cyber security and the response to unbreakable encryption. you said you're not an it person, but how do you ask that, how do you make the decisions? >> i would hope, i place great hope and confidence in the tremendous ingenuity and creativity that we have in this country. this is one case where there

needs to be a partnership between industry and the commercial sector and the government. i don't know what the answer is. i would hope that the companies would devote some serious effort in terms of research, development and other alternative methods by which we can continue to safeguard the security privacy private security of people as well as ensuring the public security of this country. >> do you feel we need unbreakable encryption for any reason? >> you mean impossible to break and it's ensuring that the terrorist get a pass? is that what you're asking? >> you probably know more about the definition than i do.

>> well in the history of mankind, since we been doing intelligence, ultimately there's no such thing, given proper time and application and the application technology. so again, i think your question gets back, and i'll just answer it and repeat what the president said about people assuming absolute positions which is not helpful. >> earlier this year north korea submitted underground testing for a hydrogen bomb. they suggest it was probably not a hydrogen bomb. some people suggested it might have been a boosted bomb, a bomb that has characteristics similar to a hydrogen bomb. it would suggest a improvement

in capability. is korea on the road to creating a hydrogen bomb in the next five years? >> i can't say that. i will say aspirational he, the current regime in north korea which is one guy is very determined to portray to the world that north korea is in fact a nuclear power and he wants recognition of that. so despite some of the failures that they have recently incurred, they will, in, in my view, continue to press on to develop nuclear capabilities which i think probably, ultimately aspirational he would include hydrogen capability, but i certainly certainly can't describe a timeline.

>> where's the intelligence community, do you have a better understanding and you believe they operate. [inaudible] in places like germany and england and brussels? >> yes they do. that is a concern of ours and the european allies. i assure you, we are doing all we can to share with them. i was recently in europe as part of the u.s. delegation that met with a number of nations there to try to be brought more sharing. more between and among the nations in europe. that right now is our greatest, is a major emphasis of ours and

that is to promote more sharing and do what we can to share with them because we continue to see evidence of plotting on the part of isil in the countries you name. >> they are fanatic and operation security conscious and mindful of that. they have taken advantage, to some extent of the migrant crisis in europe it's something which the nation -- >> thank you for doing this. going back to the north korea issue, you talked talked a little bit about their hydrogen bomb and what their nuclear

power state is. >> i wouldn't state that as fact, the nuclear bomb. >> but in terms of developing the capability and in terms of their ballistic missile development, what is what is your threat assessment of ballistic missiles? there was a submersible missile test recently. what is your assessment of the threat it poses to the united states region and wider? >> we disagree with the claims of success of their tests. we have to assume the worst. that's typically what we do in the intelligent community. we have low confidence because

they've never successfully tested one. that has a bearing on the assessment but overall we have to assume the worst. when you think about it, the north koreans, innocents have achieved a sense have achieved an objective there because they have created the psychology of deterrence which is what they are very interested in. when i engage with them some, they are clearly in siege mentality mode. they think we are bent on regime change and so, they want the recognition as a nuclear power and they want the nuclear capability that they view

fundamentally as their ticket to survival. >> this is a question concerning contractors in washington in regards to the work in the eip program that the cia conducted under george w. bush. i wonder if you have any concern about the implications or if that hinders in any way outside ability contractors to work with them in the future? >> the question is, is there any concern that that lawsuit isn't allowed to go forward will it discourage cooperation with contractors in the future? >> i don't know.

i'm reluctant to comment on an ongoing matter of litigation. i really can't and shouldn't say anything about it. the likelihood that we are going to engage in higher contractors to do interrogation techniques, is about slim and none. so from that standpoint, maybe not, but i can't really speak to the total and final legal implications of what the case are. >> thank you mr. dir., a question about syria. as you know the president announced today that he has approved the deployment of 250 additional troops on the ground

in syria. this comes after several years in which the assessment of most of the intelligence community was that the arab opposition forces have very little capability in terms of organization and military impact and staying power. anything you wanted. has that assessment changed? and is it possible yet to set out any plausible timelines if there capability increases if pressure on isis continues? the answer to the last question is no, i certainly can't project a timeline. i do think that the deployment, as announced of the special forces additional troops is a manifestation of the need to and the effectiveness of advising

and assisting and being on the ground with not just the arabs but the others who are there and various factions of the kurds. the complexity of the situation in syria is unbelievable. to the extent that we can promote proxies who have interest in their own villages and towns and communities. cannot predict what is going to be the incremental impact before

there is some sort of resolution, i can't say that. >> robert sessions are is next. no were not going to go to him, were going to go to tim johnson. >> earlier this month there was a rather immediate response from isil in terms of shaking up the political status quote but not in russia or china. do you this could blow over it will depend on individual cases. >> one of the reason it has a

lot of reaction in russia, it's kind of obvious is that there's tighter control on your counterparts there. so the likelihood that that's going to come close to or touch president putin is pretty remote other places, it depends on the politics and how individual countries and individual legal systems respond to it. it's hard to make a generalized answer to your question. >> mr. director, follow up on your question, you sort of mention this, but can you say what 250 or 300 soldiers can do that 50 soldiers cannot? >> know i can't. this isn't an intelligence issue. as i like to remind my friends on the hill, i really can't say.

>> part of their task is to gather intelligence. will they be able to diffuse the different groups? is this a good thing or will there be more deployment? i wouldn't go there either. inside, on the ground intelligence gathering is but one test that they do. obviously any time you get your ears and eyes on the ground, that's a good thing. that doesn't necessarily mean that we put more people and that would improve. i can't say that and can't say what impact it would have or where it would indicate more. i can't go there. >> in the past parties for president have received,

briefings, what steps will you take to make sure they're not mishandling any information they have? >> that is the process that has gone on for many years and we have already established a plan for a briefing. both candidates, when they are named and certainly after november when the president-elect is known and it gets more intense. we've got a team set up to do that and a designated lead who is not a political appointee and all of us that are currently involved will not be involved in that other than to oversee it to ensure that everybody gets the same information and we do comply with the need to protect

sources and methods and comply with security rules. >> how will they get that? >> we normally arrange those depending on the candidates schedules and where they are and we normally will accommodate their needs through a local secure facility. >> director i wanted to follow up on what you've learned since the it attacks. you were talking about your conviction that there are other cells in europe. can you expand on that? how much have we learned about the threat of additional tax and also, if you're making such an effort to promote information sharing coming can you expand on what the impediments are and how

much time it may take for the information sharing to reach a level that you think would be optimal? >> the challenge we have, with plots is that in many cases, we we are only seeing a snapshot or an antidotal dream. we don't have the total picture all the time. if we did, the plot would easily be thwarted. because of isil's mindfulness of the efforts to monitor them, they are very conscious of going to the use of encrypted applications. it makes it all tougher. the obstacles in europe have somewhat to do with the

fundamental conflicts, on the one hand european union incentives and drives to promote openness and free movement of people and goods, privacy, which is in some ways in conflict with the responsibilities that each country has as a nationstate to protect the security of its borders and its people. those are sort of counter veiling processes. each country has their own law, particularly with respect to privacy and sharing information between their intelligence and law enforcement. something that we've worked pretty hard in this country since 911. >> do they expect that sharing to happen?

>> if it was very significant when the european parliament, after some some four and a half years of deliberation did pass a law that at least authorizes member nations to take two years to figure out how to better coordinate selected airline passenger data, but that's fairly limited. how long this will take, i don't don't know. i will tell you i was in paris two days after the attack on november 13 and then of course, after that followed by the brussels attack and i think there is growing public awareness when these attacks happen that something needs to be done, certainly with our security organizations there is a greatly heightened awareness of the need to share.

>> back to syria, for a long time another reason we haven't been involved in syria were concerns about the intertwining of extremists of islamic groups, al qaeda in particular and opposition groups. i'm wondering if this larger number of advisors and special ops forces suggest that a were getting a better hold on how to separate them out or for just means were gonna work more with the kurds? >> the advisors are not going to be in the vast bulk of syria. obviously there are sort of two zones, if you will. there's the western western spine going from the south of damascus and north and then

you've got the screens east. the phenomenon were dealing with is the term of art that's called marbling. we have these groups and there's hundreds of them, at one point we estimated 15 or 1600 of these various separate groups with varying stripes of ideology and commitment. on the battlefield, there have been tactical marriages of convenience, particularly with one of the very capable fighting forces. were doing what we can to influence the separation of these, but it's very difficult when many of these groups are focused on their own local area. they're focused on their own village, their own town, their, their own community in a large city. inducing them to separate

because it works better for us is a real challenge. >> i was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the spread of isis and southeast asia and how real that is, in particular the increasing issues with us. in countries like india, bangladesh and pakistan, how recognizing this preparation? capable are the government at >> that's a very good question. that is of concern because of the profit since that appeared to be forming in some countries in southeast asia. i'll just say, without singling out anyone, there are varying

degrees of recognition of the problem and we will do what we can to share and enlighten and educate, at least from our standpoint what's happening in each of these countries. >> is there anybody who hasn't had one, before before we go to a second round,. >> brian from the l.a. times. >> i wanted to ask have you seen any indications that portable air missiles are in use in syria and what kind of threat does that pose? >> there certainly have been against the regime. >> where do those come from? >> the place is a wash.

the regime had them, the procurement network or black market, whatever. there's all kind of sources for the proliferation in syria. >> as their threats to aviation in the region? threats to civilian aviation? >> most certainly. hopefully there's not too many civilian airlines in syria. if i were boarding an airplane, i think i'd skip flying over syria. >> can you assess the possibilities of new technologies that would have a stable and feature on portable air missiles and the possibility of that?

>> desert individual missiles, this has historically been a cat and mouse thing, and action, reaction where you field one and develop countermeasures and then they field another that counters the countermeasure and then goes on. that's kind of a spiral were in so as time has gone on, we've developed, not just we, we've developed improvements in the capabilities and as well, ways and means of thwarting the countermeasures. so that's a conundrum continues. i can't .2 any specific technology that would be the ultimate silver bullet that would negate will not reach that

point i don't think. >> certainly where we can, unless we develop new capabilities and counter capabilities, sure. >> john. >> what you always worry about is whatever capability you develop, having it fall into the wrong hands, the access to the system is it an inhibitor. >> thank you so much. i want to refer to something you said earlier about the seven year speed up in anti-

encryption. they generally say there's an arms reach to develop the strong encryption to defeat hackers that are trying to puncture the system. could you stand a little bit on where that figure comes from and also whether or not it's a good thing that we encourage this? >> whether or not it's a good thing that this innovation is set up as it is? >> not from our standpoint, no, it's not. that's an estimate that i think is quite valid by nsa. the projected growth maturation and substantiation of commercially available encryption, what it forecast for seven years while from three years ago, was accelerated to now. that's because of the revelations of the leaks.

from our standpoint, it's not a good thing. >> it's been a few months since you set this up as a cyber intelligence center. i wondered if you had any doubts personally about the ability of that organization to overcome bureaucratic hurdles and then a general update on the status, operationally of what's been done. >> just to be clear, the president directed me to do this, to establish the cyber threat intelligence center. because of all the controversy surrounding it, we had a lot of time to think through what its capabilities would be, there's only 50 people, bear in mind,

what it could do, and what it couldn't do. so we spent spent a good bit of time engaging with stakeholders, and others who have related missions as well as the users and consumers to sort out exactly what they are doing. the feedback that we are getting from that is pretty positive. just like the reason that my office was set up by the ri rta was to promote integration. so just as the national cameras on terrorism center promote integration across those realms,

>> we've got a couple minutes left. were going to try to get in a few more questions. thank you for doing this again. it's been reported that you agree with senator mccain that any attempt to obtain from waterboarding is not worth the propaganda that it gives. does the same apply to a presidential campaign who's out saying that he would reinstitute waterboarding? >> senator mccain asked me to comment at the arms services midi hearing on the use of torture as a way of soliciting information. first of all, with science, it tells you that it doesn't necessarily work, whether you are interrogating for

intelligence purposes or law enforcement purposes, the most important thing is to develop and build rapport. you need to do that with whoever it is you're interrogating. in a torture context, people will generally get to the point where they'll tell you what it is you want to hear. apart from that, the practicalities of the utility of information that is so derived, i think we were much better served as a nation to conduct interrogation activities in a manner that fits our values. i strongly endorse what john said about the use of torture, it won't be through me. >> doesn't hurt intelligence

when they raise the possibility? >> i'm not going to comment on that. >> a major obstacle to expand, do you think that political stand mate is close to resolve? >> were very hopeful about the latest version of the government in libya. we are it's very, very fragile, it appears that there is room for some hope here. if and as it gains traction, it gains credibility within very fractious political landscape in libya. certainly we are much better off if we can operate with the government and cooperate with one and certainly if we are going to do something militarily that we have some recognized

government entity that we can engage with and hopefully consent to such operations. >> what's that test from earlier? >> we don't really know. they claim it was a hydrogen weapon. if it was, it felt very short of what we deal with as regard for any other type of boost deficient. it's hard to say what they were trying to do, but it was much more modest than they claim. >> there's a report on 60 minutes last week about telecom network in the claim is essentially made that any intelligent agency that can access that network can serve

ale any phone number that they can identify which allows them to survey all members of congress. they are questioning whether the nsa knew about it and if so why members of congress were never alerted to that law. >> i don't know the full history of this, i will tell you that we had very stringent rules on any inadvertent collection on congress. that's the only time that it occurs. in fact we are now negotiating with the congress on improving the enhancing the manner in which we share that information. >> that's an old system and of course it was done on the 60 minute thing with consent of users. >> thank you. i appreciate it. >> sir you said.

>> i think were done [applause]. [inaudible conversation]