g much more nimble and much more attuned to the way are audiences can do media. >> hi, my name is marie horowitz i used to work at -- [inaudible] >> my colleague he is >> way of others, too. you talked about about his information and mentioned nothing about culture or music or comedy or any other things which commercial lease or divide the voice of america worldwide and are very, very powerful. also a lot of success in music and other cultural expression didn't have you any plans for that are not on the cultural coverage that transcending cultural expression? >> i have to say i completely knowledge another part of the history of voice of america is a history of its culture and i think i have some ideas in the

back of my head -- actually they're some kind of interesting stuff going on out there that would be of great use of voice of america. i don't want to talk about these because a lot of these require negotiations with other parties but involves bringing parts of american culture onto the rest of the world that have never seen them before. i have to say yes, you're absolutely right. it's not my forte, but i recognized this as an extremely important part. this woman here was next and then you sir. >> the microphone is back here. >> my apologies. >> this woman comes after you. we've got to get the microphone up front. >> paul delaney. i spent most of my career as an editor and reporter at "the new york times." on the way over, i ran into a

white non-african american citizen -- >> i apologize that i'm having trouble hearing you. i don't get the microphone is on. >> on the way over -- 1234. i ran into a nonwhite, non-african-american -- [inaudible] what if they do, what is it? is there any way you can blame to americans what voice of america is, what it does when introducing to the average american whose never heard the voice of america. >> i will answer that in two ways. as those of you with a deep knowledge for the history voice of america and now part of

historical roots of voice america coming around the time of world war ii, there is a prohibition on voice of america broadcasts in its content are obvious reasons. you did in 18 editor to others in the organization. given the fact of the pervasiveness of social media and people getting information it's obviously in cost bullet directly relevant to block that content to the united states not competing with anybody. in today's media environment we have a great deal to offer what the citizens of the united states. that's one way of answering it. the second way of saying i was in during this job from christmas time to when i took the job two weeks ago and i was paying at rate deal of attention to what was brought cap, what was written, what was on the website and the app. i was listening to things that they went for walks. it wasn't until i got inside the building that i realized how

much awesome stuff is produced inside there. it is for some reason not getting out in ways that we can easily consume and appreciate. so making people around the world more aware in different ways of what the terrific content is being produced by think is going to be one of our biggest challenges because there's almost more stuff going out there that you can squeeze into a single after single newscast or single web application. and so, i think we need to figure out how to use our content over and over again. this has been done and i don't know whether her lover actually do it. you know that video presentation of the american political terms i think it would be really

awesome to subtitled in english and say here is that the russians have to tell us about political system means. put it on youtube and see what happens. why not try things in a bunch of different ways? why not take content we are producing and use it in the many different ways as we possibly can. there's a big job to be had there because there is serious but way more really interesting stuff going on that even i realized. now. >> there is a microphone. >> i was struck and very much appreciated to the third point you made in your presentation about voice of america, which is to just talk about america, to cover stories within the united states, all different kinds. i was born in another country. i come here as an undergrad

because i found it to be a fantastic place to live and raise a family. i am glad to hear you wanted to cover those processes and aspects of this great country as well as the negative ones we should easily cover by anyone yet bad news -- [inaudible] do you expect to find any controversy within voice of america are the kinds of stories that show the whole picture because journalists by their nature gravitate towards bad and because you don't want to see a cover band. >> i would like to emphasize i am not talking about writing positive stories. i'm talking about writing interesting and important stories. the way i would pay it if anyone were to guess, when i was in my late 20s i covered the america not mobile industry.

when their sales are going up to read about why puma were going down we read about why. the japanese say that once we wrote about why. it was to be. we were writing stories about a beat and some of them wind up being good as some of them wind up being bad. some of them neither bad nor good. by the managers laid off, what was going on. i think that thinking about the united states of america as the biggest, most interesting, most vital beat you could possibly think about would be the way i would ask the journalists who look about this. i'm not saying go out and cover positive stories. i'm saying go out and cover all the stories. don't scream scribe news you hear. go out and make news. make news by finding out stuff we don't know about and telling us about it. that's the way i would explain it. now this gentleman.

>> my kimber said retired foreign service officer. the american commercial media have had to reduce their overseas presence and cut back their burrows around the world almost consistently. has this same trend had a two voa and could you talk about where you have correspondent than just some thoughts on the need for americans to be overs is reporting directly from respective countries. >> if you don't mind commit to weeks then not away from the issue of budget resource is an what we need. if you ask a journalist who need more resources, the answer is probably not going to be no. so that is the first thing. but yes, i see two things been a

tremendous opportunity for us. one is the necessary reduction of overseas assets by america and indeed pretty much all american and western european news operations all over the world and also the poor a man of similar asset by those we might consider our target audiences. putting those two things together mean that if we use our nurses, which i believe we can and should be doing, i think that we could use every single piece of an asset that we are given a new set to a great advantage. i'm afraid that not as precise an answer as you type. come to me again in six months. microphone. >> when dillard. i'm the retired head of the african division.

>> i'm so glad to meet you. >> glad to meet you. i'm sure it's too early to answer this, but do you have any sense of how much of trend dives worldwide audience is exclusively through digital devices that men could you talk a little bit about the implications of the phrase digital first. >> i'm afraid i can't give you a precise answer to the first question except that no it is being counted in our services around the building and needs to be counted much more robustly because it's something we need to know. i think you can safely say if you look at the projections of the way people will be accessing not only news, but information commerce and all kind of things conversation around the world it is going to skip over all the intermediate depth and go right to digital largely digital on

future fund, not smartphones because that inexpensive way it's going to be spreading throughout the less developed world. it is a thing we have to be absolutely thinking about going to wear our readers -- listeners -- and trying to figure out a good word to call it. where are audiences. in terms of precise percentages in different plays, it varies quite substantially by directly where you are and not as part of the challenge. >> even asked. >> thank you brent carlson retired foreign service. i have often wondered -- let me put it this way. the other morning i heard this ebs radio report on an event in bangladesh in the report was done by their pure chief in london.

now if i have my geography right, that's like asking somebody in alaska to talk about an event in richmond. so is there -- do you think there is room or is there room for more cooperation. now you're on the government side that she used to be in the private industry side. is there more room for cooperation and collaboration with american media and voice of america correspondent than vice versa. can you find agents where you can pick up really good that the "los angeles times" and can american institutions use the correspondence the way you hear npr picking up things from "the guardian" correspondent or whatever. >> i think that's what i meant how in the old days we saw people strove to distinguish ourselves in the audience the breaking news that fits that other people didn't have any didn't want to talk to your competitors. you see that far far less and

there isn't an opportunity for us to do this. i don't see in this time of limited media resources why you want to have five different, six different users is giving you the exact same picture the exact same event. my idea for voice of america is tommy how you're going to do a better pa doing it better doesn't mean a much more nicely crafted first paragraph. it means, what your value added is going to be. what are you going to get to our audience reflects the richness of our knowledge of our global audience and if we can do that we should go first. if we can't do that, why waste our time doing something that anybody else can do. there's certain things that are so-called commodity news that i don't think you need. that doesn't mean some of the things, the basic simple and is being produced by services are not commodity news. there's nobody else doing this and that we ought to be doing in a robust fashion.

if there's things where there's fiber differs exorcists of it, we should move to something where we can use our intelligence expertise, and deep knowledge of our countries that we are involved in and do really amazing work. that would be my view. >> i am joe johnson comment struck to the foreign service institute. my question is also about collaboration but maybe other organizations. i've noticed a number of valuable reports the washington post at the center for public integrity and other ngos. i wonder if you've heard of any ventures that voa would take with outside organizations of the nonprofit that have been educational or research, some related purpose. >> this is interesting because it depends how you look at it.

you would call the center for public integrity ngo is a journalistic work and is nation and it was one of the major conduit for the panama papers. i would consider it a journalistic organization to foster the umbrella of this gentleman's question. when i talk about what i would like voice of america to do, i'm simply reflecting back what everyone else is already doing. this is not something i'm discovering. execution is going to be everything. i can't overpromise. tell you what immediately gave i see coming from the outside and where do i see everyone else going. in some ways we can benefit from being able to piggyback on everyone else's patent covering so we don't have to go through quite a choice of. i went through enough pain in the afraid that my previous job. >> dan retired foreign service officer and i also have the privilege of working several

years at voice of america with language services. he requested a question. the request is when you talk about the themes come in the areas of coverage that have large audience is the potential audiences abroad entrepreneurship one area is learning english and some of the most popular programming and voice of america has been learning english division or section in the english learning programs the russians nervous, manfred service and others. just as another area for two new support. more broadly and voa and the question of english has come back and forth in very drastic fashion over the last 20 years or so in different directions. how do you speak english fitting in? what should be the role that voa

and english-language content? >> well, you just added a little qualifier down there. i think it was that which can't tend. i think about it a little more broadly if you're going to cover the united states, you are probably going to do it in a push. there probably is not a way you can cover voa directly. i see the english language has value going out to the rest of the world because a fair number of the rest of the world doesn't ask the english. but i see it more if we could accentuate value by partnering it in much greater extent with our language services is the expertise in knowing what their audience wants and demanded using our ability of our english-language service to reporting develop. i see this all eventually converging on some subjects. i see it as an incredibly useful partnership to both halves of

the equation in the same building. >> high. >> you guys have a lot of questions. they make it's the former and er crowd. jeff rosen or, npr. one of my jobs in my 38 years there was at that event pr worldwide which is the international distributions died doesn't come to this david can tell you come to the attention of the government of months it's occasionally has some friction. fortunately that hasn't happened in quite a while. but my experience does bring to mind the question i thought i heard early on that i thought i heard the word commissioning. did i not hear?

>> not commissioned like in a commission as an causing things to happen. >> commission is having someone take something for you. >> yes, good. the point we dare i was very pleased to just hear that i'd die because the experience with particularly the bbc domestic product in radio in television is the product that has been turned out for them by very, very talented people. there is any number of radio programs on radio three and four and two in the u.k. and then in the united states in the last 10 years there's been an explosion in the output of independently produced audio materials. i think everybody is familiar with the podcast that goes

viral. there is really a tremendous amount of talent out there. there's some things that occurred event created for a domestic audience or internet audience that might be of appeal or there are people and/or organizations who could be turning out. murray mentioned the cultural side given that they are not going to create a great many new staff positions inside the coed building, would it make ends in your mind to develop a more active commissioning task, editors and people to work that side and of course that would apply to language programming as well. would you see that as a possibility. >> yes. vast mac >> i apologize for what we call a german question.

[laughter] >> and ken moscowitz, also retired foreign service. i would like to follow up with what the speakers that, which is apart from the looting culture for the quality of the content is so, if you just -- i don't want to be pretentious but you go around the world. you listen to the radio. most of it is music is the biggest pop. people don't listen to npr type music, which is what npr type broadcasts which is what we are used to hearing in the washington area. it is the nixon music with the newscast, which could be a vehicle for voa to get into audiences. >> there is a wealth of expertise out here in the audience then i'd need and please listen to it. i'm glad you're giving us useful feedback. >> mitchell lawson over it in

the year. my first term in the foreign service was then nigeria. we did know what voa did until i learned that most of the somehow set its clock at the house so language news.cas. that is where they got that is good >> does not give you goosebumps to think about that. >> well, it just struck me that there is both the resources and tested and the impact of those resources have had my hope is those decisions get made, even in regions that perhaps are less popular approach in a hundred million out his thought is due in part and not duplication. >> let me toss here for another on a political announced that, which is this is aspirational. this is directional. i do not want anybody to mistake this. this is not going to be easy.

i have been through similar things at other new service is. new service is a big historic story tradition dedicated workforce, plenty of racers is. it was an easy they are. it's not going to be easy here. i am reading david's mind over there. he's over there saying yeah right. good luck with that he is thinking. i know what he's thinking so i want to make sure you and that no plan survives the first battle. we are going to have a lot of that. this is aspirational and directional. it will require a lot of help, a lot patient, a lot of forbearance and a lot of goodwill because it isn't going to happen overnight. >> lynne weil, formerly with capitol hill staffer back on the hill again now. just wanted to emphasize two things you just said.

there is a lot of expertise in this room and there is a lot of goodwill as well and i hope you consider this a community that you can call on because a lot of folks here in various positions of what you're going through now. some are still in it. you have a few of your international broadcasting colleagues too. now that i'm back in congress as a staffer, i can tell you it is not going to be in the coming years and why you let to make changes, i would like to advise you to look to speaking to the members of congress who represent the people who work for you. that coalition can be helpful. not just the one strictly involved with foreign policy. >> thank you. that is excellent advice. how many more do we have out here question mark >> tommy lund, reporter 48

years. there's a lot of good people out there. i find the voa are the brightest in the world than the ones who work on the overnight shift is very, very difficult. i just wondered how many will be a legal push to change so they voa can be broadcast and listen to in the u.s. i know you can edit in the internet. what about change in the charter question dark good luck. >> thank you, thank you. i accept every ounce of good will that send my way and i'm sure i'll have to use every ounce of it. >> thank you. one more. anybody? >> i guess i'm the last person. david henderson, farmers eps is. i started in radio as a kid over

at arlington, virginia, doing a saturday program on voa about 100 years ago. but i love your use of the word cooperation. i would also say collaboration. i've been very curious about organizations like radio free europe outstanding, talented people. is there any economy is hailed to use some resources that trend i've? absolutely. looking right over your shoulder and that's one of exactly the things we've been talking about doing is how we make the best use of the resources we have been not overlap any more than we have to. absolute way. >> one more person. i can't resist putting him on the spot. david ensor.

what advice is good, bad and different but and different which you have with your successor? >> please be merciful. >> this is amanda instead and i am so thrilled. i just cannot tell you how thrilled i am to have a successor of the stature of amanda bennett. it is a complement to the voice of america that you are taking the job. as you said, it isn't going to be easy. but the sense of mission that the people have the work for you, i don't know whether to envy you are not an e.u. but it is a wonderful job you have taken on. i think with john lam did as ceo, you're going to have an easier time than i did. and you'll be able to focus more on the mission as opposed to the politics, which would be great. i just wish you well. >> thank you, david. he's been the greatest supporter and i totally appreciate the

work you've done to help me. >> please join me in thanking our guest. [applause] >> thank you very much. >> are nice, monday june 6th with the head of the british count of paul smith. until then, we are adjourned. thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] and the indiana presidential primary is tomorrow. tonight, both donald trump and ted cruz have campaign rallies scheduled in the hoosier state. donald trump in south bend. we'll have live coverage and

then at 7:30, ted cruz speaking to reporters in indianapolis. >> madam secretary. we proudly give 72 of our delegate votes to the next president of the united states -- [music] [cheers and applause] [cheers and applause] sh >> mark keisling joins us, the executive director of the national center for transgenderinition

equality. can you give a technical definition of the term "transgender" and how many transgender people are there in the united states today. >> guest: a transgender person is simply somebody whose internal sense of their gender or the way they express that gender is different than what people expect based on what the doctor said when you were born. that's sort of the simple version of it. there's all sorts of more technical definitions i could give. we don't know how many people there are. the federal government has never counted transgender people elm we estimate .3% of the adult population in the united statesow is transgender. but we're now seeing studies showing that people under 25 are more likely -- five times more likely to identify as transgender as maybe as high as 1.5% of the population. >> host: do we know how many of this bathroom laws that have gained so much attention in

recent weeks there are in the united states? not just state laws but a happen on the local level as well. >> guest: yes, the year there have been 505 -- 50 state laws introduced specific to transgender there are more than 200 anti-lgbt laws in general.m plus and there are just 11 of them plus north carolina, which passed its law and then we're just about to see -- i think we have one city, so far, that passed a local ordinance and i think wearing going to see a bunch more in the coming weeks. there's a real sort of copycat feel to it. >> why is the north carolina law the one that gained so much attention, with all these in the pipeline and the other ones.

>> well, north carolina was the s first state legislature to consider the legislation and then decide it was still a good idea. the reason they did that is because they took four hoursso instead of days, like any other states, or weeks in some of the states. so, in all of the places where they have carefully considered this, they realize its doesn't make any sense, doesn't do any good, and all it's going to do is get people in trouble. in north carolina, they jammed it through for political purposes and they're paying a significant price for it. >> host: what do you mean, political purposes? >> guest: well, it was pretty apparent that they governor andf speaker of the house and president of the senate had some sort of political agenda. this wasn't been transgender people or bathrooms. in this particular law, they also stripped the ability of anybody who faces discrimination based on race, nationality religion, and sex, to sue in state court. so, there's essentially no antidiscrimination state protections in north carolina right now. additionally, they took away the ability of state and local --

i'm sorry -- local governments to pass minimum wage laws and -- working -- say, living wage laws.l so there was a real political thing. think the for thought it would happen in his re-election campaign. think he's not think can that anymore. >> you don't buy the argument among the supporters of the lawsg that say this is about safety, about keeping sexual predators: out of bathrooms. >> guest: no.edy once no. >> host: why? >> guest: well, there's no evidence for it. john kennedy once say that sometimes the enemy of truth isn't a lie, it's the myth.ady and that people run these things through these filters they already have and that we're more comfortable in our opinions than our thinking. this is a clear case where there's no evidence that transs'

people are not predators inch north carolina they're calling fission and second graders sexual predators. doesn't make sense. it's counterintuitive and wrong.sp >> host: if you want to call in with questions and comments, the special line in this segment,publicans, 202-748-8003 democrats 202-748-8000, independents 202-748-8002. speaking of this north carolina law, you're down in north carolina, made a point to protest this and were arrested in the process. >> guest: yeah. there were thousands of people down last monday. a week ago today and it was also the third anniversary of the moral mondays movement, to commemorate and to protest when the state legislature, which is -- in north carolina has been

an extremist legislature. they passed redistricting laws and voter suppression laws, and the folks at the naacp of north carolina have been running a moral mondays campaign every -- ever since on monday, and last week the focus was hb2, or they call it hate bill 2. and i was down for that and ended up being arrested in the speaker of the house's office. >> host: and made a point to use the women's restroom while you were there. >> guest: i did. was in the capitol just outside of the governor's office looking to deliver a bill to the governor, and some of our party did get to deliver the bill, butpl i asked where the women's room was. they told me. used it. there were people in it. nobody cared, because for 15 years, almost 20 years, i've been simply using the women's room, never an issue because i do my business, mind my own business, and then go about my

business. >> mark keisling, the director of the center for transgender equality. it's transgender equality.org or call in this morning with questions or comments. special line, we tart with k.j. in florida republican. good morning. >> caller: good morning. how are you? >> host: good. go ahead? >> caller: i have two points. first of all, it's not discrimination when it comes to transgender. the reason why it's not discrimination is because there is -- boys and girls bathrooms or men's and women's bathrooms weren't created specifically to keep out transgender people. that's the difference. let me go back to slavery laws and antimarriage laws. people were marrying who they wanted before but in order to

keep slavery strong and keep a system they created laws that says you can't pear a person of the black race, and they -- they specifically prevent something that was happening prior to that. there's no discrimination when it comes to bathrooms. bathrooms won't -- aren't segregated by sex for the specific person of discriminating against transgender people. my second point is, the problem with transgender people is they really basically want to make people act in their minds, basically be players in their fantasy in their mind.tu unpaid players on top of that. because now you're doing stuff to yourself and forcing people to play along. there's a difference. when it comes to traditional discrimination for race, sex there's nothing that person is doing, like being a female doesn't do anything to be a female.

a black person doesn't do anything to be a black person. but a transgender person voluntarily does something and then tells society, you have to play along when i do. if i were to be disabled -- i work for walmart, let's say. then all of a sudden, i think disabled people -- i'm going to pretend e tend like i'm or disabled -- >> host: k.j. what's wheat get a response. >> guest: let me do them in the order you gave them to me. you're absolutely correct in onene very limited sense, and that is nobody thinks that gender bathrooms were created in order to hurt transgender people. in fact most transgender peopler are fine with gender bathrooms and always have been. there are lot of transgender people and nontransgender people for whom gendered bathrooms are a real problem. we're hearing more and more over

the last couple of weeks as this has become an issue of women whoho have always identified as women, when the doctors stand them on the butt and said you're a girl. these are people who were women but they may not look exactly as you'd expect a woman in your mind to look so people are bothering these people in bathrooms and always have. nobody is saying that gendered bathrooms were set up to hurt transgender people. like i said i've been using the women's room for 20 years and nobody cared until there were some extremist organizations that decided to make this an issue. now, as for the second part of your thing -- >> host: before you get to that, have you ever head -- in a bathroom since these incidents where somebody came up to you and -- >> guest: no, i haven't yet. in fact in north carolina thatat was the point i used the women's room. the governor's office and the state legislative building later that night i used it in the wake county jail. my staff was down there, too

using the warm and there were no problems. nobody is asking anybody to pretend. the second part of your thing, you just need to learn a little bit more about transgender people. would recommend two web sites for you. one is our web site, transequality.org, and the second where there's a lot of information on transgender people, you can understand youe. may not be thinking about this quite right. google.com, a lot of great information there as well. >> host: tone in from pennsylvania. good morning. >> caller: good morning, johnny, how are you doing, kid? i have a comment about large public restrooms, like a bus terminal. if you stand outside in the hallway you'll see most men make a beeline in, spend a women and come right back out. women are different. they like to freshen up. brush their hair, do their

makeup, fix their clothes, but when you have this thing go on where men can go into the lady's room you're going to haveve homeless men going into the lady's room and women have never seen what a men's room really looks like. they walk in, and see three guys bathing naked out of the sink and doing their laundry. they're going to find -- and talking to themselves and walking around throwing things. they're going to find it a little difficult to step in there and freshen up a bit. >> host: tony, are there any stats to back up what toneis saying? >> guest: absolutely not. i mean, i think tony brings up a really important point about how we treat homeless people and poem who are in poverty in the united states. this has nothing to do with therooms issue. i spent years going to men'sin rooms, and the last 20 years i've spent going to women's rooms, and there's not nearly that much difference as you

imagine between the two. i just don't think there's anything to that. >> host: a lot of discussion about perhaps rethinking restrooms in the united states and the labeling of restrooms. there's a story in today's "usa today," who proposed a solution for gender neutral restrooms perhaps single cell, gender neutral and a handicap stall and a shared sink for everyone and should also be nearer to the front of restaurants and hotel lobby. a lot of discussion how to change restrooms in the united states. that do you make of that? >> guest: i want to say first i don't think we'll be getting rid of gendered restrooms in the near future, but gender neutral restrooms are a good, importantth thing for a lot of folks not just for transgender people but for gender nonconforming people, people who just don't -- who never fit in perfectly in either

bam. they're also really governor to people who man have certain disabilities and have to have a caregiver with them. they're good for people with small children who may have to take their small children in whenever possible i think it's a good idea to build gender neutral bathrooms. this is going to come as a shock to you, but at my home i only have gender neutral bathrooms. they're single use bathrooms. that's why they're gender neutral at our home. and we could -- we're even seeing in colleges at the van guard of this, a lot of multi use bathrooms, bathrooms with more than one toilet that are gender neutral, and they're still -- the more privacy you create, the happier everybody is, i think we agree with that. i think we all agree with that. i think gender neutral bathroomswi are great and we're seeing more all the time. >> host: let's go to danell in virginia. line for republicans good.

morning, you're on "the washington gorgeous." >> caller: good morning. you know, this has been a pretty -- on social media i've been noticing within the lastsaying with th month. the point what the gentleman was just saying, the gender neutral bathrooms, i think honestly that was -- if you're singling out transgender community.yo you're singling them out byra saying, this is a gender neutral bathroom. then we already have a lot of places, family restrooms, which in turn obviously would double as a transgender neutral bathroom, what are you want to call it. it's a one single bathroom that is private for families whoo don't want to take their kids into the women's or men's remora man who needs to change a baby diaper because they don't have changing tables in most men's restrooms.

my husband and i talked briefly on the subject and i asked him what would you do if we had a daughter and you were out at the grocery store and she had to p. he said i take her into the men's restroom, and the point that the gentleman before was making, on the men's restrooms not being -- being gross and disgusting that's really gas12 station bathrooms and bar restrooms, at 12:00 in the morning. that's not your grocery store bathroom, that's not your mall bathroom. those are actually kept pretty clean, and to be honest theis women's restrooms in malls are quite disgusting in comparison to the men's restrooms. they get in and get out. women are in there for a while. but i also think by making the transgender bathroom an issue, you're just creating more problems for them.

for thousands of years there's been transgenders and gays and it's never been an issue until now, and i think it's a distraction from the political candidates, because the liberals don't care about this. they're all for it. the people that have the issue are the republican conservative voters. >> host: i think sunny think i agree with virtually everything you just said except one thing. i wouldn't say the liberals aren't for it. i think they don't care. that's been very concerning to transgender people over the last couple months.e. nobody ever cared about this before. we have always just used the restroom that created the lead amount of ruckus for everybody. people have nat been coming home from work and saying, goodness there's transgender people filling up the bathroom doing bad things.od this issue was entirely made upmo by somebody or another whong probably was trying to raise

money or trying to prove their relevance after the lost the marriage equality fight. it's an agenda problem that really has transpeople baffled and concerned. we didn't do anything. we didn't do anything to anybody, and now we're being bullied. >> host: on the north carolina law, what would be underlying charlotte ordinance that this law superseded?at >> guest: charlotte just passed an antidiscrimination law that was like the ordinances in 200 plus cities, and i think in 17 states plus d.c. it's -- it was no broader. it's 30 years old. and the governor and his folks in the legislature just decided to use that to take away the able for localities to raise minimum wage, to do lgbt antidiscrimination laws, but

there was nothing in that law that is any different than what we have in d.c. or the peoria, illinois or 200 other places. >> host: a question from twitter.ck what did the ordinance say about the use of public locker rooms showers, at, for example, public pools. >> guest: right. there's a part in a lot of antidiscrimination laws, including the charlotte law, which is around public accommodations, places of business that are open to the public. so, they don't have to actually be businesses. sometimes government office of offices are places of public accommodations in some states schools. but things that are open to the public, and those would have under that law, would have been illegal to discriminate in public accommodation based on sexual orientation, that is gay and bisexual and asexual people are or gender identity.

transgender people or nontransgender people. so that would have included discrimination in locker rooms; tiny part of it. and again, that's what is happening in charlotte anyway. that's what is happening in all of the cities in north carolina anyway. it's just a question of whether or not it would be illegal to discriminate. but the discrimination happensth with or without the law sometimes but this gives pea ream course when they're being discriminated against. >> host: have a line for transgender viewers, 202-748-8003. interested in hearing your stories. otherwise lines for democrats, republicans, and independents, as usual. don in vallejo, california, a democrat good morning. >> caller: it's me again. look, i'm looking at this guy here, trying to --

>> host: don, let me stop you right there mark keisling, on the terms that people use, guy versus girl, on your web site, on transequality.org you list the pronounces people should use for your staffers. explain why.y. >> guest: well, it's really to make it easier for people to be polite to people. it's to make it easier for people to be polite. i think all of us want to liveeo in a society where we're polite to other people and we respect people. and i know when i come on television, because it's a transgender topic, they're going to have people who try to score political points by calling me sir, or a man, and i can sort of brush that off. that's just sort of petty name-calling. but my name is mara. and i think everybody who is

watching knows what they're doing. >> host: don go ahead with your question. >> guest: don hung up. >> host: parkville, maryland, a run. stan, good morning. >> caller: hi. good morning. i just want to say, i feel that the bathroom topic is pretty immature. i don't think that this was an issue before this so-called solution was created.. and my opinion, i'd say that from the perspective of -- i don't know a transgender person or gender neutral -- i hope i said that creek -- but i do recall the days when i was a kid when my grandma used to tell me about days when as an african-american she couldn't use certain facilities or access certain stores that used to be in baltimore, maryland, and this sounds quite familiar if you ask me. methods like this. and with all due respect, mar

ray, don't know -- you shouldn't have to have someone call you sir or man. it's your choice. if you correct them, theyn, should, in my opinion, apologize and move forward. thank you. >> guest: thank you. thank you so much. i agree with what you said. this isn't the first time a group of people has been used this way, has been used to scare people by saying, we need to protect our women and children from them. we saw it earlier this year when donald trump has said that mexican immigrants are rapists. we saw this the black civil rights movement, the gay civil rights movement, in immigration over the history of our country. when people are trying to put people down, excludes people they say they're coming for our women children. whether there's evidence or not in this case there absolutely is not evidence. i don't think there's evidence in any of the other cases, either.

but i don't like to compare different struggles of different kinds of people. i think that's really never exactly accurate, but we have seen this before. >> host: you mentioned donald trump. the viewer said this is a nonissue, and yet it's become an issue in the presidential campaign to the point where ted cruz put out an ad recently about the north carolina bathroom law and some of donald trump's statements. let me show it to our viewers. >> people go this, use the bathroom they feel is appropriate. alk about >> mark keisling, can you talk about how you think the

presidential candidates have happened this -- handled this issue. >> guest: it's absolutely ridiculous the presidential candidates are talking about this issue. donald trump is right. this is about something that happens a million times every day, and i think it's obvious that ted cruz is desperate. if ted cruz is talking about traps gender people in the bathroom, he understands his campaign is in trouble, i guess. it doesn't make any sense. this is not what i think our presidents should be worrying about. our presidential candidates. and shame on ted cruz for bringing this up.ur i appreciate how trump -- it's not like he came down on our side of it. he basically said why is this an issue? and he is right.ss this should not be an issue in the presidential race. >> host: bernie sanders on transgender right. in many states it's legal to fire someone for being gay or

deny someone housing for being to fi transgender.r.some that must change. >> guest: we're a nonpartisan organization.." i don't know that is appropriate for me to comment on. i think transgender rights should be a campaign issue. it's important to transgender people. but this bathroom issue is just this ginned up thing by extremist organizations who are trying to make points. >> stephanie i waiting, a democrat good morning, stephanie. >> caller: good morning. >> host: go ahead. >> caller: i'd like to go and say that i live in a camper in the greater city area, and i probably know about eight different girls that are living within a ten-mile radius around me. my thing is that a lot more of r us than people -- living amongstst them, we are -- we won't sayf

we're everywhere but we go and use the bathrooms and people don't worry. been doing it for probably ten years myself, and it's just like it's been blown out of proportion. people don't realize they've already been there. should wear a sticker thank you for sharing your bathrooms with us but it's happening every day and every place. so it's an -- terrible what they're trying to make this into. thank you. >> host: mark keisling on that recommendation. >> guest: about the stickers? run that -- texas was -- i'm sorry -- arizona is looking at passing those off. did make little card that says a transgender person has used your bathroom and nothing bad happened, and a friend and i put them up in the phoenix airport as we were flying through it. >> host: how did that go over? >> guest: we thought it was great. people on facebook thought it was great and probably nobody in phoenix cared because they were's travelers trying to get t to where they're going.

that's stephanie's point. the reason i use the bathroom at the airport is because i have to use the bathroom at the airport.t. and the reason i use the bathroom in the governor's office in north carolina is because i had to use the bathroom, and as long as transpeople are doing their business, minding their own: business and going about thei' business like everybody else, we should all leave each other alone. >> host: daniel in bat morning maryland, an independent. you're oregon with markery much keisling. >> caller: thank you very much for taking me call. good morning to both of you. i have to agree. think we make it bigger than it really is. one point i wanted to make, i've been to several concerts. like going to concerts and the restrooms on both sides get pretty busy, especially the ladies. women go into the men's restroom, into the stalls, not

thinking twice about it and men don't care. no one is jumping up, looking at number. they're just doing what mara said. using the restroom, and leaving,g, and to call them predators -- calling them a predator without evidence is pretty bad. usually if someone is going assault someone in a restroom, it doesn't matter whether they're gay, hetero, whatever, they're just assaulters, and you -- to say one certain gender is bad, i disagree. i think people just need too chill, do what they got to do, and their there you have it. >> host: a question from judy on twitter. is gender nonconforming a new category? nonco please explain the difference. >> guest: we have grown up in our society where we're gendered from the -- before we even are name actually, when our mothers

they're always asked what is it before they're asked what it's name going to be? and we're taught right away thatke there's mommies and daddies and boys and girls, and for most people that makes total sense and most people don't complain about that and they feel like it fits them. but the truth is, very big chunk of society doesn't fit perfectly into the masculine men and feminine people and gender nonconforming people. it sounds like your purposefully nonconforming and for some that's the case. for many people they cannot conform to at the stereotypes. so gender nonconforming is not a category of people in that senseus in a real categorical sense. just means some people don't fit into our stereotypes. now, for some people it is a

category, and there are other terms people use like nonbinary, gender -- qur and they're change all the time. everything changes. >> host: so if somebody is trying to navigate this and be polite, what is the pressure way to refer to a gender nonconforming person. >> guest: the only important rule you need to know is the golden rule. treat other people like you'd like to be treated. get to know people. introduce yourself to somebody and if someone says my pronouns are prefer are she and her, then use that. if they tell you, they're not really comfortable with the or her or he and him, they preferhe maybe they pronoun, we use the they pronoun all the time.p like john asked me to go to the airport and pick up his friendhe but the didn't tell me what they look like. we do this gender neutralling thing all the time and for some people that's preds and actual

late tricky the fir couple of times and then you get it. >> host: let's go to gary in wisconsin in wausau, wisconsin republican. gary good, morning. you're on with mark keisling. >> caller: good morning. >> host: turn down your tv. we can hear you. >> caller: if it's not an issue then why don't you just use your narl born gender restroom. my second question is, what's your litmus test to determine your gender? is it physical or emotional? in either case you're still what you are when you were born regardless of any surgery, regardless of any emotional change of mind. so, why the big upset on your side and insistence. >> guest: there's never been a big upset until the last couple of months.

everybody has tried to use the restroom that cautioned the least amount of ruckus. simply can't use the men's room. o if i use the men's room there would be all sorts of uproar. i know folks who look like john who have beards, and a suit and tie, who these laws would make use the women's room. but when you're in the bathroomsrt with people, we don't know what is on people's birth certificates. we don't know what is in people's anatomy. i've been using restrooms for 56 years now, and i've never seen that part of people's anatomy in a restroom.ur there are privacy stalls, even privacy dividers between urinals. this is an agenda problem. i think transpeople have always just tried to do the best they could, and always the gender nonconforming people who don't fit perfectly into either stereotype, they've been doing the best they can for so long.

but we're being put in a position now where we look at the two bathrooms and instead of seeing men and women, we see get beat up or get arrested andea that's not okay. we need to learn to leave each other alone and respect each other at least in that way and in the bathroom, mind our own business. that's really what i do. i just mind my own business. >> host: asked to use the public restroom in north carolina must i carry my birth certificate? >> guest: well, no. it's a dumb law. it's a vicious, bad law -- >> host: how is it enforced? >> guest: it's uneven forcible. if they enforce it they'd be inat violation of dozens of federal laws.ki they -- what is happening is individuals are taking it upon themselves, and these folks are going to start getting arrested themselves, but there are people who are standing in front of

restrooms and picking who gets to go in. these are not loft officers.s. they're just buttinskies who feel like they have a political point to make. it can't be enfor forced but people will be harassed and arrested and that's when they're going to have to show their birth certificate. when we were going down last monday to the state capital, we had sent a letter to every state legislator in north carolina telling them to bring their birth certificates and haves their staff bring their birth certificates when the session opened because laws in the state should be enforced uniformly. none of us want cops in front of the bathrooms but if they are they better be asking to everybody's birth certificate, not just transgender people. this is not workable. nobody carry this birth certificate with them. >> host: hillsdale, michigan. sam is a democrat good morning. >> caller: good morning. seems to me that the only people have anything real problem with this is issue men and they're

the ones the least affected by it. and mara made a good point, if she went into a men's bathroom there would be a big ruckus but wouldn't be against having a woman the n the bathroom before having a woman in the bathroom. so it's just men's stiff necks problem, i think. thank you. >> host: ann in thus louisville, kentucky, an independent, go ahead. >> caller: well, first of all, would like to say that earlier when you talked about predators in the areas and worrying about children being molested or women in these public restrooms, i don't think anybody believes that the transgender community will be person perpetrating crimes. people's firees now that the door is open that people can come in there are in being the guys of a transgender person are

the predators. having said that the point i would like to make is that we keep talking about this as if it's just restrooms. and as far as the north carolina law said, as you pointed out earlier, it's actually common changes areas as well, and just to illustrate my point and my concern, is that my daughter was on a swim team here in louisville, kentucky. the facilities they used to practice in was indeed a public facility, meaning that they would practice during hours of operation. they would use one part of the t pool, the public would use the other part of the pool. after the swimmers finished i practice -- ranging from age six to 18 -- they would go into the public shower areas to get their showers, to get the chlorine off of them. now, i am just really concerned about whether or not -- what kind of effect would it have on a child, six-year-old child to see a grown man's body parts in a shower? and you might say that, oh,ing

this is not going to happen, but, yes, it will happen because that's the direction we're moving in, and if it's not a true transgender person, who is to say it's not a child -- a child predator? that wants to prey upon children, take this opportunityy because of these laws to prey upon children. we know that child predators will do anything to prey upon children. it's not transgender these the predators. this the other ones, the real child predators taking an opportunity to do this. >> guest: well, there's norr reason to think child predators wouldn't currently do that. there is nothing in any of the laws we're talking about that would allow anybody to be a peeping tom, rapist, child molester. nothing -- none of that would become illegal. it's not legal anywhere now, wouldn't be legal under any law i've seen. just saying you can't discriminate against transpeople doesn't mean anything can do anything bad in the locker room,

but it doesn't happen. could i tell you what would it never happen? no. everything happens eventually and that would happen with or without the laws, but the otherha thing i would just point out really quickly is that over the last few weeks, 300 -- actually now more than 300 antisexual assault organizations have issued a joint letter saying these laws are nonsense. it's really important, the topics you're talking about here are so important sexual assault is a serious problem in the united states.atm. child molestation is a serious problem. they need to be discussed seriously. we can't just say, oh, theis problem is transgender people,. or the problem would be caused because after transgender people. it's a really serious problem, and if we start making up anti-

solutions the problem all we do is make life bad for transgender people and not help a significant problem. i have no idea how many -- can't be a lot more than this. this is really a unified letter saying, hey, all you cities and states everywhere, knock it'sth off. this isn't helping with the real problem. >> host: transgender people, renee has been waiting good, morning, you're on with mara keisling. >> caller: good morning, mar. a a i've been watching this, and i've been living was a woman full-time since 2004, and we're there and you don't even realize, for example i served on juries in one instance. i asked the attorneys to step outside in the hallway because they were going to ask me a question about my spouse, and in order to answer it, the way they

wanted, would have been lying, and so when i got out in the hallway, i toll them i was not exactly what i appeared to be, i was a a transgender person, and i wanted to no whether or not i thought i could render a decision, fair decision, and i said of course, and so i endedn up on the jury. so, we're in -- going to thet bathrooms, and i'm just living my life and i don't care about this other stuff. i think it is nothing more than a red herring type situation politicized by people looking for political gains out of in terms of their base.e. so, that's right all i wanted to say, and thank you again for being on the show. >> guest: thanks for the call, renee.e. >> guest: i think renee said it. just trying to live her life.depend >> host: richard in kingsport, tennessee, independent. good morning. >> caller: good morning, c-span. good morning, john. good morning guest.

let's get back to the public changing room areas, and the restroom situation should not be a problem bus if you have a -- someone going into the male restrooms they're going to be using the stall. if you have someone going into the female restroom, they're going to be using the stall, so it's -- whether there's any re-assignment surgery or anything, no one should be seeing anything. in the case of public changing rooms, or the case of -- let's take a high school, and those who are familiar with high school locker rooms and with shower rooms, sports and so forth, if the law says that someone is to use the facility which they identify with regardless of their anatomy, and i think the guest would

acknowledge that there are people who identify as gender that doesn't match their biology, who do not want to go through re-assignment surgery, and they will retain the physical anatomy that is on their birth certificate, and what you would have, according to what i've heard this morning, what you would have -- and you could not -- it would be call discrimination -- if you did not allow someone with male bodydy parts who identifies as a female, to go into the shower facility and shower alongside the other females, and i don't think that 99-point -- and two-thirds percent of american population really are considering that. don't think that's what they want. is to have their adolescent daughters aside -- alongside

someone else who is fight as someone'sed adolescent daughter but who looks otherwise exactly like a male.e. >> guest: i think you haven't been in high school for a long time. those schools. health clubs everywhere, are now being built, now being relevant trophiteed, not because of a transgender people at all to have a lot more privacy. nobody liked being in big joint showers with 15 other people as it was when i was in high school. almost nobody ever is in a situation where they are nicked in front of other people unwillingly anymore. now, it does occasionally happen, but there are coombss that transpeople make. there are accommodations the

facilities make sometimes for traps people, sometimes for other people, but more and more schools have private changing room, private shower rooms and most schools now, or more and more school -- not sure if it's most yet -- don't have kid changing for things like gym class and don't have people showering. there are lot of reasons for that. more and more is we can't afford to have phys ed. this isn't a big a problem as it sounds. i challenge you to find an instance where it there has been a brouhaha over it happening. it's all over a hypothetical young girl, even your language when you're talking about a high school or a middle school, you're talking at be a young girl and a grown man, and that just doesn't happen. this is -- should be a more serious topic than this.

or not a topic at all.l. >> host: when you're say there are accommodations that trans people make, what drew mean. >> guest: i know trans people who have not gone to the gym 0 who stopped working out when they transitioned, who will -- there are lot of people -- still a couple stories that people know about that have wide-open changing reames, and nobody likes that. nobody who likes that, i think. and so people for lots of different reasons, including trans people, say i'm not going to shop there because i can't get the privacy i feel luke i need. -- i feel like i need. trans people are not looking for opportunities to be nicked in front of other people. b we don't hear about trans people being nicked in front of other people. and you know what is weird about this is it's not weird because most people are trying not to be nicked in front of strangers. it's not a thing in america we

do lot of and we all avoid it at all costs, we all, not just trans people, avoid being nicked in front of other people. i transitioned 20 years ago. i am somebody who works out at the gym all the time. do use a locker room. nobody has seen me naked in 20 years. it's not -- it's not a thing jive you want to learn moreou about the national center for transgender equality, you can good to their web site, transequality.org. thank you for joining us. >> guest: thank you, john. >> and the u.s. senate gaveling in soon for a brief session, ten minutes away, we'll take you there live to the floor of the senate as soon as they gavel in. a little more from today's "washington journal." >> crime indianapolis, indiana

a chairman of the how word county republican party in hoosier state, talking about tomorrow's primary. craig, when was the last time that indiana actually had a primary on the republican side that made a difference? >> guest: 1976. ronald reagan and gerald ford. >> host: how are you preparingic or how are republicans in indiana preparing this time around? is there a lot of mechanics this time that have moved into operation that hasn't happened in past primaries? >> guest: well, frankly, we lad to learn the whole process over again.of a lot of people that were around that are still active in politics, or a few. that's the real great thing about being in indiana right now. we're loving it. for the political junkies and the average person, you come in and there's a presidential

candidate standing there it's an experience that most hoosierst. have not had and they're enjoying. >> host: let's go over the rules in indiana. this is an open primary. correct? explain that. >> guest: well, the person declares the ballot they want to receive at the polling place. so you can be a democrat and if you decide you want to vote for donald trump, jujus go in and say i want a republican ballot and now you get a republican ballot. so it's as open as it can be and we see that african-americans mary to primary. >> host: can voters register to vote tomorrow and that or has registration ended? >> guest: no.. registration is -- we have had it up until recently here, but tomorrow will be a little too late for you. >> host: expectations forir turnout tomorrow in the firstve meaningful primary on the g.o.p. side in over 40 years.

>> guest: well, if i can use the early voting and the absentee balloting as a guidance, we'll have record primary voting. i talked to our secretary ofel state about ten days ago. she told me we were running well ahead of our record pace in the past, and i would expect that to be the case. i voted last monday, and voting was brisk at the absentee voting center. >> host: we're talking with craig dunn this morning about the indiana primary tomorrow that closely watched primary. talk can about the republican side. craig dunn is the chair of the howard county republican party. we have phone lines for democrats, runs and independents and a special phone line for indiana voters, 202-748-8003. if you want to talk about what you're anything your state, met a candidate, heard them speak, we want to hear your stories. craig dunn before we get to calls, want to get your thoughts on this cruz-kashich alliance,s'

calling it a short-lived alliance in the hoosier state and two other primary states coming up. >> guest: well, i think it's going to be -- go down in history as a nonevent. a little too late health estimated 30% of our voters had already voted early, and because of that, a potential alliance is probably for not. hoosier voter -- i can say we're a different breed than other states but i know the average hoosier doesn't take kindly to somebody telling them how to vote.. that's one of those situations where you might say that's interesting if don't think it will matter at all for the people voting. think most will vote the way they originally intended to and that alliance is nothing more than just a gesture that wag was going to be pretty obvious by the fact that campaigns have limited resources relative to

money and manpower and time. more important than anything is the time. that's what this is all about. was case sick -- kashich spending his time and now and resources in state that could be productive to him and could have been done without announcing a formal alliance. i don't think it's going to impact the final result. >> host: donald trump brushing off this alliance between cruz and kashich as a desperate move by campaigns that are close to dropping out of the race. fox news sunday yesterday ted cruz was asked about the last stand in indiana storeline. here's the exchange. >> host: i. >> if agree that indiana is incredibly important. hard donald trump is not goaling to 1237. we are head to a contested convention. i'm going to have a ton of delegate at the con -- >> but if he beats you -- >> a battle to see who can earn

a majority. of course not. it's going to be a battle to see who can earn a majority of the delegates elected by the people at the convention. s the reason donald is so frantic to say the race is over and trying to get his media acolytes to say the race is over is because donald knows he cannot earn a majority of the delegates and if you can't win a majority it means you can't renight the party and you can't win. >> host: craig dunn, if donald trump wins tomorrow what are your thoughts, is it over for a ted cruz campaign? >> guest: there's a lot of working parts in this process to still unfold.t don't think it automatically proclaims trump as the overall presumptive candidate at that point in time california is certainly very important. but there's a drip, drip, drip effect of every vote and every state that guess for trump, just makes it more difficult, less

percentage of votes, delegates he needs to pick up over the remaining primary states to win. so, certainly indiana is a very important state, and i guess i would express that it will either be trump's waterloo. >> host: the latest polling from indiana on the nbc merrick poll. craig dunn, you nighted on you blog had a john kashich sign in your yard. talk about the path ahead for john kashich. >> guest: well, john kashich'sing extra from the very beginning, when you started with a 17-candidate field and we went through that mockery of televised debates that generated into sophomoric name-calling and i bullying, john kashich, much of that time period, was down on

the end in the debates, and would find himself being outnumbered many times, seven and eight to one in terms of the amount of time he received on the debate. think he decided early on in the process that piling up the delegates through the primary process was probably not going to be in the cards for him andyo he needed to wage a 1237 campaign of hoping for a h contested convention and hopingt, that it goes to the second ballot, which would give him a greater chance. and i think that he -- that's consistent, and in fact, the indiana strategy is such that i think part of why he felt comfortable about leaving indiana and going on to oregon and new mexico, was that feels pretty comfortable a majority of the delegates in indiana, if thing goes to second ballot, would probably back john kashich. ... inted that he was not here going door-to-door and

attending on lincoln day events in those type of things, but i understand the 1237 strategy. every candidate has to run their own race. i think that is his strategy. ultimately, if it is a contested convention, i think it will be communication to the senate. the clerk: washington, d.c., monday, may 2, 2016. to the senate: under the provisions of rule 1 paragraph 3, of the standing rules of the senate, i hereby appoint the i hereby appoint the honorable lindsey graham from south carolina to perform the duties of the chair.

>>. [cheering] >> assistant secretary action

carter says that the battle against isis continues, the political situation in iraq and syria is deteriorating. he testified last week before the senate armed services committee. john mccain chaired the committee and the hearing ran about two hours 45 minutes. >> good morning. good morning ladies. >> can we have order? >> good morning. the senate armed services committee meets this morning to receive testimony on the us strategy in the middle east and efforts to counter so-called islamic state.

i think our distinguished witnesses board appearing before us this morning and for their continued service to our nation during a time of war. please convey to gratitude and appreciation of this committee to all the men and women you lead. since our witnesses last appeared before this committee, we have seen a steady increase in operational activity in iraq and syria. airstrikes have steadily increased and improved . new capabilities such as the a-10 and now attack helicopters have gradually been added. efforts to train and equip vetted syrian forces have been restarted and slowly expanded. an additional us troops have been periodically deployed to the fight , a few dozen and a few hundred at a time. these operational adjustments have resulted in some operational gains. we have seen security , iraqi security forces make modest gains against isil in mr province and a coalition of syria incurred with small numbers of sunni arabs take

territory away from isil across parts of northern syria. all the while, united states and coalition special operation forces can continue their daily grading of isil fighters in iraq and syria. these gains are real and encouraging and testified to the excellence of our military leaders and troops on the ground. the purpose of this hearing is certainly to review those operational issues but more importantly, to try to put them into some strategic context. too often, it seems policymakers, politicians and the media all want to engage at the operational level. i understand . military operations are important and interesting but i worry that we are staring at our challenges in the broader middle east through soda straws. we need to lift our sites. setting more strategic level, we see a middle east descending into chaos . in the words of henry kissinger and i quote, there is a struggle for power within state , a conflict

between states, a conflict between ethnic and religious groups and an assault on the international system . while the epicenter of this conflict for power and identity is in iraq and syria, where isil established its caliphate, is a growing contagion that affects libya, egypt, yemen, parts of east and west africa, afghanistan and beyond. and as we've seen from paris to san bernardino to brussels, this threat is increasingly capable of targeting us as many of us predicted it would. and yet at this strategic level, we always seem to be a step behind, a day late and a dollar short . while too many of our leaders in the administration and yes, in the congress fixated on and sought to micromanage military operations in iraq and syria, isil executed a strategic counter move, launching sophisticated attacks in the heart of western civilization and deepening its presence in libya and the country that

america helped liberate five years ago and then precipitously abandoned , we now see thousands of terrorists in training camps and reports of external attack plotting . all the warning signs that existed in afghanistan on september 10, 2001. the administration increasingly appears focused on this problem but once again, response has been reactive, slow and insufficient. similarly with russia. last year vladimir putin moved to fill a strategic vacuum the united states left in the middle east and its first out of country military since the time of the sars. russian forces moved into syria, but all down on the us on regime and decimated the moderate syrian opposition groups that america and our allies said we were supporting. russia has used syria as a live fire exercise for its modernizing military.

despite predictions of a russian quagmire, putin has instead used limited military means to achieve distinct political goals. despite putin's pledge to withdraw from syria, assad's forces backed by russia now appear poised to retake aleppo. meanwhile, advance russian military capabilities remain in syria, enhancing putin's ability to project power beyond the region. once again, once again, the us response has appeared confused, reactive and inadequate. none of this is happening because our adversaries are 10 feet tall or somehow more capable than us. instead, as sophisticated and ruthless as isil is, it has major strategic vulnerabilities. not least, resentment it engenders among the very muslim communities it seeks to oppress. vladimir putin is playing a weekend economically and

demographically but he is consistent in playing it better than we are playing ours. so too with the iranian regime. even with a windfall of sanctions relief, tehran remains military and economically weak but it is aggressively expanding its malign influence in subverting our longtime partners. put simply, too many of our leaders appear involved in the tactical fight . the incremental calibration and escalation of military operations and not enough in the strategic fight. and despite the real tactical gains we have made, we must ask ourselves , is this working? are we winning? are we getting ahead of the threats and problems we face? or are they getting ahead of us? what enduring objectives do we hope to achieve across the middle east? a region that is experiencing greater turmoil than at any time since the collapse of the ottoman empire . how will we achieve those goals? and on what timeline and at

what cost? i understand the american people are frustrated with washington. i know there's a belief out there that we invaded and occupied iraq and it failed. that we intervene but did not occupy libya and it failed and that we did not intervene in syria and that failed also. but what ties all of this together is that we left. we left. or we never engaged in the first place. we pulled away and stood back and tried to convince ourselves that everything would be all right and look at the results. no new orders emerged in the middle east, only chaos. and the vacuum we left behind has been filled by the most extreme and anti-american of forces, isil, al qaeda, iran and its terrorist proxies and now russia. we cannot afford to believe that this is not our problem .

it is our problem. as general david contrast wrote last week quote, the attacks and other activities of extremists will not be confined to the areas or regions in which they are located . rather, it is in the case of syria the actions of the extremist groups are likely to spew instability, extremism, violence and refugees far beyond their immediate surroundings. we cannot go on pretending that we can avoid these problems or that the current approach of trying to treat the symptoms of the disease rather than its cause will work if only we give it more time.it will not. we need to stop fixating on military details and look at the bigger picture. no one believes there are easy solutions to the underlying problems in the middle east but after the past seven years, this much should be clear. walking away isn't the answer. and time is not on our side .

senator reid. >> thank you very much mister chairman. let me join you in welcoming carter and mister dunford. thank you for your presence here today.this hearing is to update the committee on the status of operations against the islamic in iraq and isil is timely. it comes on the heels of business by the president, secretary carrie and both of you as part of the administration continuing review of our ongoing efforts as part of operation inherit result. we look forward to hearing your assessment of the situation on the ground, the progress that has been made to date and that task that can be accomplished in the months ahead. in recent days the department has announced two deployments, one each for iraq and syria. these deployments are intended to bolster efforts in those countries as the

focus of coalition operations increasingly turns to isolating mosul and rock as well as ensuring that our partners have the enabling support needed to continue the momentum against isil. the deployment to iraq comes at a sensitive time for prime minister abadi continues to struggle to bring together the kurdish elements to the political establishment in iraq. accommodated reality that was in full display earlier this week when the prime minister reshuffled his cabinet then stepped up pressure by thousands of protesters threatening to storm parliament. as we consider our policy in iraq, it's important to remember the coalition there at the invitation of the iraqis and we must remain cognizant of the political opposition to our continued and growing presence in the country. ignoring that reality risks damaging our broader strategic goal of a lasting political solution for iraq and the defeat of isil. in syria, the cessation of hostilities has seen a note growing number of violations. the most concerning by the forces of the assad regime in aleppo and the surrounding region. russia would begin

withdrawing its forces in syria but as is often the case with president putin, the public message is not consistent with the reality of events on the ground. according to reports, forces loyal to the syrian government have begun to mass and concentrate power around aleppo. these actions do not portend well for the direction of this continent. i hope the secretary and chairman will provide their assessment on the military actions to the regime and russian forces and how these figure into our planning. when that occurs before the committee is a request by the ministration to extend the dod authority to equip and maintain the syrian opposition. as we consider this request it is my assessment that without our partners on the ground, the recapture of a number of other town would not have been possible. i hope the secretary and chairman will the importance of this request for an extension. in addition to iraq and syria, i hope the secretary and chairman will provide their assessment on a threat

posed by isil's growing presence in libya. the reports of a number of operations in libya and some suggestion that moore may follow. as the committee moves toward the mark of defense authorization bill it is critical we have a keen understanding of your view of the threat emanating from libya. i look forward to your testimony. thank you mister chairman. >> welcome secretary carter. >> chairman mccain, ranking member reed, thank you for those statements and for this hearing and for the range of geographic and in terms of technical operational and strategic that you are asking us to thank all the member of the committee for being he and for your interest in this and above all, chairman, thank you for taking the troops. it means a lot. you have many opportunities to carry that to them directly but i'll try to do that also when i do , i appreciate that. i will briefly in my opening statement address all of the aspects of the suspects

subjects raising your two statements . obviously our campaign to defeat isil but more broadly our military strategy in the middle east and i appreciate this is my seventh appearance before this committee . if one focused on the middle east since i became secretary of defense and the timing as senator reid noted is fortuitous in the sense i just returned from a two-week trip to the asian-pacific and the middle east. both regions critical to us and global security and where our men and women in uniform are deeply engaged as they are all over the world. emblematic of why with all the challenges going on today , particularly the five chanted challenges i discussed last month in my budget testimony, namely russia , china , north korea, iran and terrorism. especially isil.

dod can't choose between one or the other. or between acting in the present and investing in the future. we have to do them all. while there is much i could say about the asian-pacific, i'm going to focus on comments today on the middle east. there are actions and are strong military posture continue to be guided by our north star of what's in america's national interests . these are several things . they include dealing isil lasting defeat . that was the principal purpose of my visit to iraq last week where i conferred with our commanders and visited with our troops, met with prime minister abadi . spoke to kirsten regional government and announced a number of key next steps that president obama has directed to further accelerate the defeat of isil. more on that in a moment. when i appeared before this committee to discuss our counsel isil campaign i outlined how we had embarked

on a major acceleration of this campaign. an effort chairman dunford and i recommended to the president in october. it consisted of multiple steps. first there were a number of immediate accelerants. we deployed strike aircraft , supported and expanded air campaign against new targets and new categories of targets illuminated by refined intelligence. we deployed additional contingent special operations forces to syria. we expanded the equipping of syrian arab forces engaged in the fight against isil and began enabling capable, motivated local forces in southern syria also and enhancing jordan's border control and defenses. we leveraged airpower and devices to help them take sin jar, cutting the line of communication between isil's power centers in rocca and mosul. we introduced an expeditionary targeting force. targeted isil's leadership in

iraq and syria and we started to expand the military campaign against isil to every domain including cyber and space. all these capabilities were marshaled against a clear coalition military campaign blend focusing on operations on three objectives . one, destroying isil's parent to murder in iraq and syria which is necessary , not sufficient but necessary. second, combating the mess taft this is of the isil tumor worldwide wherever they appear as has been noted by the chairman and senator reid and three, are most important mission which is to help protect the homeland. in addition to accelerating the campaign with additional us capabilities, we renewed our outreach to coalition members and over the last three months i've conveyed my counterparts several times in paris, brussels, and last week in riyadh. next week in europe to brief

them on the coalition military command plan but above all to urge them to contribute more inane more meaningful ways. since we embarked on that major acceleration, results followed and continued in recent weeks. on the battlefield in iraq, the iraqi security forces we took rahmani and along with kurdish #you have begun operations to isolate mosul with the intent to collapse isil's control over that syria city. and in syria local forces supported by our coalition we took the tricia and dan in the talus body to the east, cutting off two significant lines of communication in raqqa and one of the last major arteries between raqqa and mosul. therefore between isil and syria and isil in iraq. we also see results in targeting isil's leaders and finances. we eliminated isil's cabinet,

having taken out it's so called ministers of war and finance. we captured one of the principles of isil's chemical warfare enterprise, remove external plotters from the battlefield and most recently took out the isil emir for southern isil, weakening their hold there. our taxing infrastructure from oil wells to cash storage to isil's financial leaders is putting a stranglehold on isil's ability to pay its fighters, undermining its ability to govern and making it harder to attract numerous recruits. these are the result and there are also results in our coalitions train and equip efforts as well. so far with your support in congress, we've trained over 20,000 iraqi security forces and provided six over grade that's of equipment to the iraqi army. we provided two brigades to the passion you parted more than 12 million pounds of critical applies donated by more than 20 countries for our part ranging from ammunition to heavy weapons

to counter ied equipment. meanwhile, in addition to the local forces we are working with in iraq and syria, 90 percent of our military coalition partners from europe, gold and asia , 26 countries in all contributed to increased their contributions to help accelerate the defeat of isil. all this has been necessary for putting isil on a path to lasting defeat but it's not sufficient. indeed, i have consistently told you we are looking to do more and that we would be doing more . as we take advantage of opportunities, we are generating new ones and seizing those opportunities to repeat this cycle in and forcing success. this has been our intent and is consistent with our overall strategic approach which is to enable capable, motivated local forces to recapture and hold and govern territory tyrannized by isil.

now, based on the results we had and on our desire to continue accelerating isil's lasting defeat we are conducting the next plays of the military campaign. they are one, stabilizing iraq's anbar province. generating security forces to envelop mosul. three, divine and developing more local forces in syria that will isolate and pressure raqqa and providing more firepower, sustainment and logistical support to our partners to enable them to collapse isil's control over both these cities. to help facilitate these plays, we are taking a number of key actions in both iraq and syria. actions president obama directed and that he and i announced over the past week and a half and i should note the president has approved all the actions that german dunford and i have recommended to him to date. in iraq, our actions are in support of iraqi security forces operations to isolate and pressure mosul. they have all been approved by

prime minister abadi and i told our troops in baghdad last week , we will be placing advisors with the iss down to the brigade and battalion level. we will leverage apache attack heliport leverage the effort to we take mosul. we will send high bars to support the iraqi ground defense. provide financial desist assistance to the peshmerga, up to $415 million to bolster one of the most effective writing forces against isil. and to do all this we are going to adjust how we use us forces already in iraq and immediately bring in about 215 more of them. in syria, our actions are to help our local partners continue isolating and pressuring raqqa and as the president announced we are

increasing us forces there sixfold from 50 to 300. those additional 250 personnel including special operations forces will help expand our ongoing efforts to identify, train and equip capable motivated local anti-áuntran5á forces inside syria, especially among the arab community. they will also serve as a hub to incorporate partners special forces from both european and gulf partners that will augment our coalitions counter isil efforts there. in the meantime, in addition to initiating training inside syria, we are continuing to train and equip other embedded syrian forces outside syria. keeping our focus as we had in recent months on battle hardened proven anti-áuntran5á leaders . whom we can make more capable as any blurs and amplifiers of our effects . in this context, let me say that the section 1209 program is central to our ground campaign in syria and we are now carrying out a different approach and instead on that

we use to train and enable local elements that have proven themselves against isil on the battlefield. we've moved away from last year's disappointments with a rubber program and we need your support to fully overcome them area to focus on the program as it is now and in particular release the now $349 million and 1209 funding currently blocked by congress. mister chairman, i understand you help to clear these funds with the committee and i hope other committees will follow suit and i am grateful for that. the fact is for our commanders to be agile and accelerating our campaign against isil we need a similarly agile congressional funding process. we are required to submit reprogramming requests as you all know to the four congressional defense committees and so far on these hubs we've received differing responses on different timelines and sometimes with conflicting demands. we must get this working better going forward.i would also urge you and the other three defense committees to consider ending

the reprogramming requirement for syria. so that it's on equal footing without structured our oversight of our train and equip programs in iraq and afghanistan . as it stands, the current setup involves , invites trouble and micromanagement of a wartime efforts and risks inhibiting results. beyond iraq and syria we are also addressing isil's metastases . in afghanistan since we authorized our forces to conduct strikes against isil we have been able to degrade the terrorist group elements in that country and in libya . we continue to follow isil activities closely undertaking a successful strike last year in which we took down isil's team leader in the country . another strike in february against a isil training camp.

as the new libyan government gets on its feet we will support it in the fight against isil. we will counter isil and work with partners wherever isil has or tries to gain a foothold, whether in yemen, west africa or southeast asia. even as we do more, we are continuing to marshall our friends and allies across the counter isil coalition to do more to accelerate isil's lasting defeat. when i met with my counterparts from the gulf cooperation council last week i emphasized the importance of their country doing more. not only military, as saudi arabia and the uae have been doing but also politically and economically read that's because duty support for stabilization , multi-sectarian governments and reconstruction will all be critical to ensuring that isil stays defeated and mister chairman, i want to second the point you made which is in the region and in my conversations their parties are already beginning to look beyond the defeat of isil and asked what their situation is at that point. that reinforces the need as you indicated to think

strategically. next week in stuttgart germany i will be convening my fellow defense ministers from the major contributors to the military campaign to discuss ways we can all continue to accelerate our efforts. that said, while the military momentum is gathering strength and isil is struggling to resist our multifaceted pressure i am increasingly concerned about political economic and diplomatic challenges creating an added burden for the government before the task of defeating isil is complete here this is while the rock struggles

with challenges due to the lower price of oil with huge reconstruction bill as it retakes city's from isil. in syria, competing agenda for the political agenda are inhibiting-- inhibit aiding isil forces. secretary kerry and secretary luke are focused on this intently, but they need support from you and congress to ensure military momentum is matched with political and economic momentum and that the military defeat of isolating syria and iraq when complete will be lasting. i have articulated ache clear strategy with interstate being lasting defeat of isil and that means it must be achieved by local forces. our strategic approach therefore enable such forces to collapse isil control of muzzle and a rock by bringing to bear and supported them the full might of