the role under the interstate commerce clause. and with those funding sources i share senator baldwin's concern that the chief talked about with the ability to respond in a way to protect the lives of his firefighters that is on the chopping block in context of the interstate carrier. there is a lot of concerns about a budget proposal that doesn't adequately fund the grant programs as the minister hazardous material to see the role little differently in issue i have

been raising given that he was the fire chief and a small community 25 years the vast majority of land in the united states 90 percent don't get paid at time but we don't want them not trade either. -- trained either but we need those tools. but i am concerned as the deputy secretary said these programs are difficult for volunteers to navigate. and if you could respond how you could fashion a grant

program, provided we still have it, to take the higher administrative cost the money doesn't go where it belongs. we applaud that the two gentlemen in the middle but we do see the higher administrative cost to apply for the grants and the low dollar amounts to be spread over services and a narrower fashion. so looking at what you can do for the firefighters to make those more accessible. >> i myself as a volunteer firefighter for most of my life before i came to washington and and and i am very cognizant how difficult it can be to interact with state and federal government requirements on the part -- a part-time basis. of top of macy and weekends

and we have a responsibility of in the federal government to insure that the grant money is used appropriately in reducing or eliminating it duplication we are committed and easy as possible with the grant applications how can that ben done by somebody potentially in the wee hours of the night with a for internet connection? it is easy to have a system where everybody interacts online.

to balance the oversight requirement and to properly adjudicate end a site visits of that they can interact with us live in those matters. >> it just becomes a non starter and as a result of a list of community steps up to provide the resources. but we should all be thinking about what fire service looks like in the future because we see fewer and fewer volunteers stepping up in fewer and fewer folks to they don't

work where the fire services in their community. so this is a challenge going forward so if we reduce the trading support that we received from fema and the incentives because no one will want to fight a fire without trading. we will be jeopardized thing and the critical piece of infrastructure that we have relied on for a lot of years i want to think the chairman and the ranking member to put on everybody's agenda the of volunteer services said the challenges to serve a vast majority coming up by a volunteer fire service. if we maintain that critical first response we have to work together to fashion some opportunities for the future. >> we will wind up here.

we have so much waste from government i have a great deal of admiration for the inspector general and the gao to look at the waist and that it continues and i don't see a lot of connections and to reform that we fix things for go for years now watchdogs have said there is much as $10 billion reduplicate spending in government and it continues. to get back to what i said earlier is there really a mechanism in which we can enforce reform to make it work? in those watching over government and between these audits with fema ended against the sub grantee the

fema administrator has the ability to waive our findings do not go against the locality to read collect the money that was misspent. we think that authority is used in a fashion that is counterproductive that the states and localities have no incentives to spend the money correctly so we will find an instance that is the sole source contractor or where the percentage of cost and when you don't have the money at stake it is quite easy to do that. >> is this common across agencies if they have the same kind of waiver system to make mistakes mondo bid contracts or pay for something that was inappropriate?

>> certainly with the grant area speaking directly if they would waive those costed findings but with acquisition work we have found those types of things to be problematic although day jazz as an entity is improving of the full source contracts and have decreased over time in a fairly significant way. >> in general i think part of the problem is they are so large and complex that when feet of -- fema was given the grants after 2006 it had to figure out how to manage all of these. so one of the things that we found is to review the cross brigit applications so to

implement a new system is challenging and expensive peas and complex but because of that these issues require sustained long-term oversight. that is what we see with our work. in congress says it over and over again the agency starts to pay attention and oftentimes it changes but it doesn't happen quickly. >> i like the idea of the waivers and when you finish up your reports to you come up with conclusions on legislative ways to fix problems? >> we typically do not we recommend certain things to the department as it is our oversight capability. sometimes we will try to get a legislative fix but it is mostly recommendations to the department to change the way they operate.

>> senator i think we use the waiver judiciously and appropriately. when we are made aware of examples to become aware on our own accord of matters of malicious or fraud or waste and there are cases where regulations are flaunted, we will recoup those funds. we have many examples where they do that more often the examples of the public assistance program where there is more contracting. and in those cases it is a much more complicated web of authorities and responsibilities and i would be happy to speak but there

are many we go back and forth. but we are absolutely committed to adjudicating these findings. of those recommendations you heard reference 93% are focused on closing those audit findings that led to the number. along the way they made programmatic changes to the training for the federal requirements and the regulations are structured but the larger government policies carried out to make them more easily achieved to make out on its findings you were. >> are either inspectors general were those that are auditing with recent instances with inspections were we have gone forward

with legislative overhaul to reform in the agency? >> we have with a number of various like radio interoperable liddy day justice not have the ability of those seven components to talk to each other on a common radio channel one reason it exists is to have that you deal of effort we have done to separate audits the first shows 99.8% failure rate the ability to talk to each other two years later we saw the situation was not improved and as a result legislation was passed the end of last year period eating essentially congressional reports of oversight by congress with a specific guidepost to get towards interoperable liddy.

>> the question regarding the metric marcion standards fema is the federal leader to assess the nation is capability to respond to disasters and despite that it has assessments how it is taken federal, state, and local partners to the national prepared this goal. i fink you did a good job figures testimony to lay out the threat risk assessment that fema requires states to conduct with the state and national report that come from those assessments however want to make sure we are continuously evaluating the metrics. to make sure we always make

progress to that prepared the schools. -- go also how effectively has fema integrated grant program that checks with its evaluation of progress to the national prepared this goal? and what recommendations specifically do you have to improve the of the trickster church? to read but most of the metrics are all but -- output based metrics and we would debate that point but beating that is the jurisdiction purchase on the improved product list. so there has been an effort for those investment justification sand period applications of the 32 core capabilities but a lot of that is based on self reported assessments the

state's his deposition, but we haven't seen is a more quantitative assessment of each level so we know when we have to give out across the whole country to a given out to the areas. >> bandido who may have looked to this issue specifically but if you do have information and generally had uss fema overall metric structure? >> we have not done that but what we did was take a look at the metrics the requirement of a great program to understand what does success like? how you measure it and how you get there with a specific time bomb that is achievable.

we found almost universally is the the tricks the states for using were none of those and fema were is not enforcing those metrics. i know a gao we try not to overlap some of the duties. >> no duplication is a worthy goal. >> do you think there is room for fema to improve its metrics? and looking at the metrics of the national prepared this goal. >> i can start with the caveat i don't disagree with anything they have said they describe a situation that is accurate and 2009 through 2010 which is why we develop the system that is put in

place to achieve the goal. there was no policy linkage and the states had individual whole land security strategy but there was no overall arching strategies and there was no linkage to it you cannot compare. but separately there was national preparedness programs like the capability list of the idea to suggest of a common set up metrics every jurisdiction should do this much hazardous material response. but the problem is they were divorced that is what he uses to achieve the target capabilities but it wasn't specific to the jurisdiction

so the example earlier we would expect the same of a small community and by that formulation of a standard target. so we develop the national preparedness system that we use to define these things and that is the language those other words we commonly used to describe and the framework of how we put that together so what you hear so much about that process is we no risk does not aggregate across the country with kentucky and missouri and north dakota those are individual risks but the capabilities do aggregate if we can look at what is important the

highest risk to a community to build that is the outcome we try to achieve to build the resources and the equipment to do of a job against the threats that they have. that we can look at the nation of what we have achieved and to supply those anywhere to take mutual aid resources from the west coast to the east coast and come together as a nation to leverage what we have built in one jurisdiction will ever having enough there is not be enough money to ever have enough capability to deal with the worst day but we will deliver those resources and those of the outcomes we are trying to achieve. >> i have one final question

is there another presentation of the inspector reports to the agency they are inspecting? >> it is a process we will have an entrance conference to discuss it is what we will try to do during the of course, you have communication with the component there will be an exit conference with the potential recommendations beggary e. wright the draft report and the component will take a look at it to see if it is accurate and if the recommendations makes sense in that given to congress so the agency will respond in writing to your findings? >> correct. >> and then head of fema?

>> typically not the head of fema but as somebody who is a subject matter expert. they do brief the secretary and deputy said terry low dash secretary to discuss the work we're doing. >> i a understand it has to be adversarial to be independent doesn't always end up that way or is there a collaboration to fix problems based on reports? >> we will always be independent i have no use if i am not independent. but that being said we want to work and listen and understand what the challenges are before we make a recommendation it

doesn't do anybody any good to have a recommendation that will be rejected out of he and by the component with there is a lot of disagreement as you can imagine. >> because your testimony that a record will remain open through april 26. the hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations]

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systemically here to review the findings included in the program and other programs aimed at domestic targets fbi surveillance of law-abiding citizens and groups and political abuses in several cases with tsa. and 10 eastern

if if fifth man and a the

1968 presidential campaign

with the democratic governor of george wallace for the complete schedule go to do c-span.org. >> madam secretary we will give the 72 of our delegate votes to the next president of the united states. ♪

>> takes to the panel to be here in souders services as a protocol as a government witnesses and then other outside witnesses are second. and i wish the second panel was going first to you could hear that testimony especially because of its nature. by staff generally prepares comments for be to make on

the front end with a couple of alterations i stick to that but today i want to be very brief and say look, we addressed in the importance we take you to be here to be here for the progress. but all of us understand the terrible and horrible things as peacekeepers are do we did the people we're supposed to be protected with sexual abuse and what they are rendering with this helpless situation is beyond belief. all of this of both sides of the ideal get very frustrated as a lack of results that occur. you are working hard that

you find blast and satisfy on every level with that agreement is intact and maybe i don't know everything that i should budget if i do right now the u.s. peacekeeping mission in would go go into north china today which is where my wife is i would be on the first played out of here to go home to protect her from the un peacekeepers especially if they came from certain countries. from the chairman of the foreign relations committee if i knew that the red was sending peacekeepers into my neighborhood i with the here immediately and drop five is doing catching the next flight home and go home to try to protect my family

from the abuse that they put forth in added north chattanooga. where people are held that it keeps we're young girls are subjected to this sexual violence where we are paid as the largest contributor. i know you are here today to share with the seven of the up progress made. it is not you but i am disgusted by the reports by the actions of the u.s. peacekeepers and i hope that somehow what this hearing they can figure a way to bring the san -- to bring it

is divided ever going to chattanooga with the the immediately to protect my family so i look forward to this hearing and for his desire and cooperation. but i hope out of that service we as the nation's that those that are sent to protect our not doing the dastardly or terrible things i would turn over to the right key member. >> thank you for your passion. it is not the first time we have dealt with problems such as this we have taken the right position with trafficking of persons with united states membership -- leadership has been instrumental where people were are trafficking for sex

or labor abuses and vacated very strong with the oversight that the integrity of what we do to evaluate the country's is not compromised. when you look at the united nations, we will not tolerate an to the auspices perpetrating these types of violence against young people, or anyone. i first want to underscore the importance of the u.n. peacekeeping missions of 120,000 police personnel an overwhelming number professional responsibilities of the appropriate way with commitment and honor to protect a vulnerable citizens from city and and

missions around the world as pointed out united states not only has a direct security interest in the u.n. peacekeeping missions as the greater percentage city and other country in the world but the value for the bed is states is eight / one to use that international united nations peacekeeping to fulfil that function. there is a very important benefit to the u.n. peacekeeping mission in the overwhelming majority that do that properly but the sexual abuse by u.n. peacekeepers must and. those perpetrators me to be held accountable there can be no exception. zero tolerance.

you are right to be of rage we're told of the children who are very vulnerable in our polar, subject to the most difficult lifestyle to be enticed by food or money to do horrible things under the united nations. that cannot continue. there has to be accountability and what gets share bid corker add to be so concerned is the report initially with the united nations the response was fragmented than bureaucratic and not treated with the seriousness that it should be. that is hard to understand. close to agreeing world pc and stability with those types of activities.

so they pass the with security council resolution last march to look like the appropriate response. will it be enforced? we'll be be prepared or repatriate personnel from countries that are not to read what they need to you due to training their personnel to deal with sexual abuse issues? holding those who violate accountable including present time if not should not be part of the u.n. peacekeeping mission. are we prepared to implement that? there are shortages of personnel the war that are participating that may not

have the same access to training. so will they compromised the safety of young people? if day do the chairman and i will do everything we cayenne to make sure they have the resources to do that. we will nonsupport that type of activity. there can be zero tolerance and i really do look forward to the discussion we will have with the two panels today if they do know that there working every day to make sure that united states leadership makes it clear we will not allow or tolerate that type of conduct with a tolerance.

>> the first witness is the ambassador the u.s. representative to the united states for you and management rand reform for the second witness principal deputy assistant secretary of state bureau of international organization affairs. the third witness deputy assistant secretary for state for plants programs and operations for military affairs for cuppings for your service to our country. your written testimony will be entered into the record but summarized in five minutes and with that second panel may be beneficial. thanks for taking the time

to be with us today. >> thank you for inviting me here to testify today on this urgent and shameful issue of sexual abuse and exploitation of u.n. peacekeepers. i had the opportunity to travel to the republic to witness the peaceful transfer of power and in many ways it underscored both the best a and the very worst of un peacekeeping. the presence of the peacekeepers has been to critical to stanch the ethnic violence that led to the deaths of thousands and has displaced hundreds of thousands but as we all though, some troops have been implicated with

allegations of horrific sexual abuse to prey on the very people they were sent to protect. during my time there we had the opportunity to travel and meet with the families of the victims and their descriptions of the violence that their loved ones have suffered at the hands of u.n. peacekeepers were powerful personal accounts that for be cut through trickery the excuses for why this has allowed to persist for urd too long sexual exploitation and abuse is not a do probably lead peacekeepers from bosnia to haiti to the democratic republic of the kong go i will read just a short passage of the internal

report documented sexual abuse among peacekeepers. >> some girls talked of rape disguised as prostitution in which they said they were raped and give it money or food after words to give it the appearance of a consensual transaction. these words i am sorry to say come from the state report in 2005. we go from the scope of courage allegations now more than a decade later that these very stable finances are still occurring and despite years of insisting on zero tolerance the culture of impunity has been allowed to fester. with capacitor asked last year to establish a new paradigm to tackle buster jet was clear that the lack of transparency and

accountability rat the heart of the issue. yes they publish your annual report with the types of abuses by ignition by peacekeepers but under pressure to withhold a of a nationality of the alleged perpetrators to take collective action talking about the outcome of disciplinary action to hold perpetrators to account it without transparency real accountability was at best in consistent and this is finally a changing and i share your outrage of this. in to miss out of true

accountability and to support the secretary general to name the countries it is a dual report of a long overdue step and now they're reporting on the web site in realtime credible allegations along with the nationality of the alleged perpetrators did we are pursuing a comprehensive approach is to follow-up with the appropriate authorities. with the security council resolution 2272 as other steps for for

accountability. that demonstrate that pattern of abuse it is the clear indication of command-and-control. of those that with some of personnel or is not held accountable. our goal is to see resolution 2272 implemented fully as powerful prevention once and for all the culture of impunity that has persisted for too long. that with military units those that are well-trained and able to deploy quickly to take their place the u.n.

has come a long way to respond to this purchase of sexual abuse it has built up the capabilities to increase awareness about sexual abuse instituting penalties for offenders clearly given that shocking scale and gravity of the sexual abuse incidents being reported from the central african republic by themselves they are not sufficient to address the crisis of recent commitments absolutely must result in a long overdue sea change the work is not done we may get a car highest priority to see the a perpetrator's held to account and that integrity

peas to be restored to peacekeeping. >> mr. chairman members of the committee i maundered to be here to talk about this rfa issue that needs urgent people and a sustained effort. of use by u.n. peacekeepers is a cancer that demands the most comprehensive treatment possible and the outrage collectively is only useful if paired with action and provide begin by stating we have been an advocate for increased transparency relating to allegations of abuse by the un peacekeepers and we are pleased the plush for transparency is starting to find attraction and while it is clear the actions taken so far have fallen certain actions taken by the secretary general create

important do avenues some steps include improved reporting systems to secure evidence for use of the investigation and withhold the of pavements of the staff centcom under allegations of misconduct of all peacekeeping operations and also note in february to take the unprecedented step of breaking home the entire contingent working in central african republic based on credible allegations this is the first time the secretary general has taken steps to set an important precedent

we welcome the secretary general to identify the nationality of those uniformed personnel who are accused of abuse including the information online and realtime. they have the ultimate responsibility is to provide this information publicly they motivate to do much better and allow members states to track performance to recognize serious patterns of abuse to urge the went to repatriate units that have the systemic pattern of misconduct to began countries from peacekeeping where appropriate. it has allowed us to direct hour bilateral engagement where needed we launched an effort to reach out that

senior levels to see if they are aware of the report with credible actions in terms of an investigation through prosecution and when appropriate and to identify those areas where the united states might provide capacity building assistance to help the country's better investigate and prosecute them with the exploitation and abuse against civilian personnel of the civilian personnel summary directly following up to make sure they all take necessary action. it does here real damage to

the institution of peacekeeping never more important and one on which the united states relies to stabilize that would otherwise spiral out of control. posting though leaders of it to issue a new memorandum and to direct do efforts to strengthen and modernize his operations. they are well timed to bolster exploitation and abuse. for example, a new commitments in the president's summit included 40,000 troops and police to send a message two contributing countries that peas operations are no longer a seller's market. the increased capability should allow the u.n. to prioritize better performing troupes to give that reflect

-- have flexibility. mr. chairman my colleague is with me today specifically to the issues of the reforms instituted at the with the treaty provided to the peace keeping troops in the field and i will conclude by saying by the very mandates we're serving under a mandate to protect civilians who were under threat of physical violence exploiting or abusing the same people is appalling and unconscionable breach of trust. and we really appreciate the attention this committee brings to the issue and share your outrage. >> afternoon members of the committee thanks for letting

me speak today and we're very deeply troubled by what brings us here today about ladies with the executive leadership with the peace operations initiative i will give you some background that i will discuss the exploitation and abuse. over flagship security to build capacity for other countries do deploy peacekeepers to play in -- with that mission to be sure that self-sufficiency and importantly the program objectives to promote the role of women and battered gender integration into their operations.

into step up for their responsibilities and to focus our military and other priorities but to date the program is facilitated of more than 200 personal of operations around the world and today partners although all they comprise 30 percent of the contributing countries are all about the weight class as even to the we are working to expand the base of the number of countries that troops are available to support these missions and i would echo what my colleague said we think this will help to have more troops out there to raise the standard with performance and conduct in a disciplined.

by any views brady peacekeeper is unacceptable but fundamentally undermines the legitimacy. and then to proactively address the exploitation and abuse. with program execution all appropriate training has relevance of if academics that go against sexual exploitation and when we start in the classroom with cereal based training to move on with exercise related training at the leader level. into those training leaders. and but effective leadership

in to protect the of the role of women with gender integration. with that positive impact it can have over the past five years with the un peacekeeping and has a point of contrast those that participate from those debtor being deployed. . . no amount of training, facing the panacea. there are far too many serious incidents of still occur. transparency will help.

got to continue to follow through. if they fail to follow up on allegations through their jurisprudence systems, we must be ready as a nation. we have to take a deliberate decision on how we do that. in the end, well-trained, well disciplined, well-equipped units are the building blocks to effective peacekeeping. well there are many success stories, we are aware that the track record is not -- i stand by for questions.

>> and we thank you for your testimony. look, my guess is that you are is upset about this as we are. you work in an organization that -- whether it is at stake, certainly at the un we are trying to make something happen, almost impossible. you probably do welcome a hearing like this dialect the problem exists. my understanding is that the level of violence, sexual abuse, the kinds of things that are happening to vulnerable people is actually much higher than reported because the very people that are out there protecting the population are also protecting, in many cases, the human rights workers who may in fact be reporting this. with that assumption, the

appropriate that in fact the reporting level is far lower than otherwise because people are out in the field, peacekeeping folks there to protect them, and there are concerns about when they are in the field making reports. >> thank you for that question. i think that you are absolutely correct to make the assumption that levels of reporting or below what they actually are. and i think it is for a variety of reasons. i think what we are seeing, with the allegations coming to light now, parts of the country are because the security situation is improving. we are now able to send more people out to these remote areas where you have had a single country contingent

which in and of itself is a risk factor. and remote areas we should not have single country contingents. i think you are seeing an improvement security which is allowing people from the community to feel more safe and comfortable. what i. what i can tell you, mr. chairman, is i think in the coming months we will see more allegations coming to light. i do not think we have seen the end of this problem. we are going to see more allegations, not fewer. >> which countries are the worst? >> i wish i could say that this was just a couple of countries, but what what we are seeing is that it runs the full gamut from countries with seemingly very well trained and equipped, disciplined troops

, the french forces have been named. the tanzanians in the drc, the drc troops themselves, there are many, many countries that have these allegations. i cannot point a finger at one being particularly bad. the contingents that have been repatriated were repatriated because -- >> i got it. i have a whole list of countries here. it is beyond belief that germany, other countries, let me ask you, if i couldi could ask a personal

question, have you had kids? if you know you insecurity and peacekeeping mission was going to your neighborhood right now, would you not have the same response i had, that you would rush him to protect your family? would that be your response? honestly? >> mr. chairman, i have five kids. and when i was preparing for this testimony today, last night, and i had had to talk with my daughters about what i was doing and what i would be talking about, it was a difficult conversation. but i can also tell you, having recently returned, i am so thankful that my children are being raised in the united states and in an environment where will of laws primary and in the

central african republic i met people who are the victims of sexual exploitation and abuse. would you prefer that there were no peacekeepers? i did not know what the answer would be. would you prefer, given what you have experienced, that peacekeepers return home? and they all of them said no. what we want is accountability, justice to be served. >> what is wrong with the secretary-general of the un? this report is ten years old. what is wrong with them? what is wrong with them? i mean,, is he just so inept , inept that he cannot call the body to keep this happening and we are just

now beginning to put processes in place. >> what i would say is that those processes have been put in place but never been acted upon. >> how do we put up with inept leadership at the un? >> i do not think that it is ineptitude. it is a reluctance to take on the opposition of two contributing countries that don't want to deal with this issue in the transparent way that it must be dealt with. >> we have a law here which says, when we know of things like this we withhold money.

>> i cannot give you an example where we have withheld money for these things. we did not have the kind of visibility we needed. certainly with credible evidence of individuals or units, we go forth not to do security with them anymore. that is out there. any of any of the training we have done has been vetted. what is good about what is happening now is that now we are starting to get more information that we did not have access to before. >> we may go to a 2nd round.

i lookedlook through the list of countries that are violators. many of them are countries that receive aid from the united states. i do not understand why we continue to send money to countries outside of the un that allow this type of abuse to take place? so i do not think we are using the levers that we have. we, i think, should be withholding payments until this ends or doing some level of reductions. and it does not seem to me -- it seems to me that this is not that important to the un, or they would have done much more about it over the last ten years. those people you talked to were some put -- somewhat fearful.

but i just do not think that the united states is using the leverage we have to stop this. and i think the un is in great jeopardy of building enough critical mass where severe penalties should be taken against them with withholding of funds from them because of their ineptness, their lack of concern, their lack of care after ten years to continue to allow this to occur. so i hope factions and plan to be a part of actions taken against them. not a very important to them. otherwise this could have been stopped a long time ago.

>> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to thank you all, and, i mean, that. this is not easy work command we appreciate your commitment and passion to get this right. thank you for your commitment. and i do acknowledge the fact that we now have more information than we had a year or two ago. having given a copy of the un webpage. it looks like approximately 90, somewhere in that range. that same number of victims. and of all of those cases, i

go through them quickly. only four have been finalized. the chairman said that these are the reported cases. we know that in some countries the seriousness of this issue, even though it is globally acknowledged, but in some governments and countries it is not considered to be a serious issue. that means that the reporting is going to be spotty. and the pressure, we saw that when we were dealing with trafficking of military facilities. we know that is a problem.

>> my specific question to you, it's one thing to get the secretary-general to withdraw the mission if they don't do certain things. the two sections that i see in the un security council resolution which was just passed last month, the chairman is absolutely right, section four deals with gathering evidence, most of the section deals with victims. section nine says urges all member states to take concrete steps. what are we doing? make sure that those who have perpetrated these horrible acts are going to end up in jail.

>> thank you for your question, sen. it is an important topic,topic, and i think you hit on something that is key. we talk about what the un is or is not doing, that the crux of the matter is what the troops and police contributing countries are doing. based upon the new reporting we have of nationalities, nationalities, we finally have a school that allows us to go to those countries to see what they're doing, to urge them to do better. i think you mentioned before cases last year that have gone through the process. there are at least another 20 trials occurring now. also the republic of south africa has a court-martial.

we are starting to see the actions taken. we're going to continue to shine a spotlight. high-level discussion with ambassadors all back here in washington last month command we have been clear with countries that this is not just one sort of discussion. we will be coming back regularly. >> -underscore the point. i support un peacekeeping. a lot of taxpayer money goes into it. i have a right to know that

section ninenine of the un security council resolution is being enforced. i don't believe the country that has people who have perpetrated this, some countries will follow through with this requirement of combating impunity and making sure the perpetrators are held accountable and serving prison time. what are you going to do to provide me with information on how we are doing and every one of these countries? perpetrators as to how there system of justice is handling this exception to international standards. >> it is important we continue to follow up with each of these countries. we are doing that and are happy to provide you with the results of conversations.

>> i want to know what you plan to do working with members of congress to keep us informed in a timely way as to how every country that send peacekeepers to countries where the systems they have employed to deal with those who have perpetrated these type of acts. i want to make sure -- 1st of all, i don't think we have enough. we have to be more pro-active in makingpro- active in making sure those who are victimized have an opportunity to come forward. we have to be more direct with the political structure to make sure all perpetrators are identified so that we have a country that is acting and follow every case because i don't have confidence in their system to provide justice, international justice.

we need to come back to me and tell me what we will be receiving on a regular basis as to what is happening in holding these perpetrators accountable and how the trials are going forward and whether you can say with confidence that they have taken steps to prevent impunity for those who have committed these crimes. >> thank you. we already started an exercise. there are a team of people behind me engaged in this. every day we are putting together essentially -- what we want to do is combine the new transparency we are getting with our own information we get from our embassies in the field and are preparing what we call a data call that is actually an effort to go out to all ambassadors in every country that hosts a peacekeeping

mission to answer a series of questions based upon our own observation, engagement, analysis so that we can bring that information back to washington and do exactly what you say, makesay, make a determination about whether the countries are doing the right thing and not. >> we need to talk a little more about this. the leahy rule, which i support, indicates that we don't give aid to countries that don't adhere to basic international standards. standards. to me, holding those accountable for these atrocities would be contrary to international norm. you are going to help us grab the appropriate type of oversight that will make sure the countries understand that they must act to prevent impunity for the purpose of the crimes. understood?

otherwise we will drafted, and you may not like the way we drafted. >> understood, and we are working, for example, in the conyers office appropriation language which requires the kind of certification that you are describing and we are looking forward to working with you. >> senator isakson. >> thank you. i appreciate your compliments. not much transparency. putting it on the website is pretty good. a lot of these people would not know website if i saw them. i want to echo what has been said. i am completely coming from

where they are in terms of us were the united states holding these people accountable in some way, withholding funds until late comply with human life. when sen. corker wentsenator corker went to die for and senator cohen went to the congo, one of the things i learned is, rape is a military tactic for them. it is not a violation of law. they teach it. when we went to die for you did not see a man younger -- older than 12 or younger than 72. because they are all that is left. they armies coming to invade the towns rape the women. and it is an ongoing process. this is a big practice. one place i know it takes place.

unless there was a significant consequence, this may address your organizations work. we are just whistling in the wind. no is not a question. it was kind of a statement. which brings me to the question. is there any status of forces agreement that you know that is required or otherwise put on the burden of any country, any status, legal accountability to which those peacekeeping troops will be in the event that commit a felony a crime? >> thank you for the question. i may have to defer a little bit. there is a memorandum between the country and the troop contributing. those countries they go to a certain mission and a country that they are working in, but i do not know the details to wrap that further. >> there is a memorandum of understanding and a model

memorandum of understanding. that is coming in 2017 and strengthening the provisions. that is one of my goals for the upcoming negotiation. there are specific mo use negotiated between the troop intruding country in the un. sen., whatsenator, what i can tell you is that this is not a problem at its core of lack of words on paper. it is a problem that has persisted for too long where words on paper have been ignored, words on paper have been disregarded. even withindisregarded. even within the existing mo you the tcc has not abided by it. and now we will not tolerate that going forward. >> as long as these troops, many of whom were in an army

trained to use sexual violence as a tool of work or deployed as a peacekeeper, if they realized they are exempt from enforcement of the law in the country they are in or anywhere else, there is nothing that won't hold them back. however, all of a sudden if we start holding people accountable, sentencing people, and people start serving punishment in time for rape or violence against women or whatever it might be, word would get out really fast. they are great at making agreements and putting words on paper, but not the best of putting those words to work in real life. my point is, if we could get to some sort of the status of forces agreement between countries that supply un troops and the un and have not a you must in 90 days establish a pattern of practice, you will be liable

and punished for rape, murder, whatever capital felonies we want to include in their, and then do our best to aggressively make an example of a couple people. that and withholding money of the two things that will get these guys attention. we don't have anyone's attention right now. and it is a frightening, frightening thing. and i think the gpo why, a division of the state department, right? >> yes, under my leadership. >> i would hope you would meet with the trade representative for the united states and start finding out whether or not you can get countries and compliance with fighting violence against women. we open the markets in south africa for domestic united states chicken by just enforcing the terms of the

african growth and opportunity act, which is a trade agreement between the two countries. people don't like rape or violence, but they like to eat and have commerce. if you predicate the ending of violence against women and sexual violence is a practice we can start going a long way toward making something happen. that is the levers it makes a difference. i'm telling you, it is one thing to tell them your name is on the website. it is another to tell them that they can't trade anymore. we had importing chickens from the united states in order to participate in trade. it would seem like to me the state department ought to try to find ways they can leverage what they are doing with some of the benefits we do on aa daily basis with countries around the world who may provide peacekeepers and then all of a sudden you

have a big stick and some of these countries. i would suggest that is one way to look at making an economic impact and return to better behavior of some of these host countries. >> thank you. you mentioned the political resistance. what kind of political resistance exists to keep soldiers from raping and abusing young girls and young boys? .. >>

>> how does fear that it will lead dishonor their troops and dishonor peacekeeping but what i can tell you is the dishonor is not being transparent or not prosecuting credible allegations of sexual expectations and abuse to restore integrity to peacekeeping. so what you're seeing a positive way today is there is no longer a monolithic resistance opposition. eight there are contributing countries that recognize a crisis that they're circling the wagons to say no to transparency is undermining

peacekeeping. we have seen progress recently on the front. >> a large number of people of the peacekeeping mission to make many i will say this one more time there is a peacekeeping mission to make money. so i'm sorry pork --. i cannot imagine how political it would be for those countries that make money off of this situation. >> stakes for convening this hearing and for your assistance fighting through the of trafficking and the engagement that you bring to make sure we don't just hold

hearings. than on but to the ambassador who was working hard to is to real reforms to make that effective. to bat with the u.n. undersecretary general for peacekeeping operations and was struck by the challenges by the number of countries for regatta peacekeepers deployed and the up possibilities of peacekeeping to protect fragile countries from being a failed state has say cost-effective rand a positive way to build peace but the allegations made.

as outlined across dozens of missions across decades are shocking and a unacceptable. in the united states foots most of the bill or the peacekeepers that are committing these atrocities against men and women and children. to make sure that peacekeepers cannot be trusted and instead are committing crimes then our support is at risk to do more harm than good. so i agree we all have to act to take an end to sexual exploitation on a wide scale by un peacekeepers by providing doesn't fulfill a member state obligation is

the responsibility of the member states to select and trade and oversee the appropriate use a and it is a struggle as a share a bed was recognizing ready people that are deploying peacekeepers it part to get the troops stayed. we are not attracting the most capable and best trained we need the strength to refer staff to institute meaningful accountability for those peacekeepers who commit those types of crimes i look forward this committee can push for accountability that is meaningful to work together and to cheat the peacekeepers to the protectors against violence. so ambassador tell me what trading credits are proven

most effective? what has been successful to reduce what the senator correctly recognized is the training from those contributing countries that sexual violence is a weapon of war and what is most effective to prevent that and what can we do to strengthen that with accountability? >> but if you would allow be to say to the point this is not fundamentally about it the training issue there is no training that will guarantee this will not occur. regular get the troops that have committed these abuses have are among the best

trade, dash treated troops in the world they have explicit exploitation and abuse prevention so it is the accountability issue. there is no troop contributor a country that is a view but it is how they deal with them that provides prevention and going forward >> so how effective is the began jaime? since they are close allies performing at the highest level? you are right i take it matters before trading -- training what about the me and she been -- a navy and she me? >> i'd like to avoid that phrase because they seemed

so schaede with to be named. i hate it is a watershed for us to identify the country and a follow-up directly with them and not tolerate the passivity that has existed, a sweeping under the carpet. frankly the lack of accountability and not to allow that anymore is editor isaacson talked-about that earlier in you talk about money. to say that you will not participate in peacekeeping if you do all of hold your troops accountable or report back on what you were to read or do not prosecute these allegations in a flagpole and a sufficient way is ultimately the

biggest. because they will agree to a jurisdiction they can choose to have the appropriate response or not and if they don't then frankly they should not be a part of peacekeeping. >> i could not agree more private shame we have been supporting peacekeepers who were doing horrible things you want to make sure there is more accountability that is appropriate is we're one of their principal contributors and then to make sure this comes to an end. what is the most effective? >>. >> and i apologize. my perspective is trading it is necessary but make no mistake this is a problem

that is much broader the and training we have to enter the training we provide we think it is pretty good bet with best practices we start in the classroom removed two scenarios and exercises and focus on new debt leadership to draw the best of breed. to make sure they understand their policy but that will not be sufficient so i would echo to focus on accountability just because you have a rotten individual does not begin necessarily need to disengage and as we remain focused on future outcomes if they will still deploy to u.n. peacekeeping then we want to be involved en darr training and not

walk away those are the difficult decisions. >> i am looking forward to the second panel with the suppression of the whistle-blowers with the likelihood these abuses are far more widespread. fate you for your testimony. >> gone this issue i of figuring out a way to deal with this in a bipartisan manner to get back this issue with gabrielle whole host of other issues. senator flake will ask the next set of questions. >> fakes or your testimony today and the work they we're doing with the difficult issue went to fall

less power important it is to whole country's accountable has that ever been done? to we have examples of where that has occurred if we see a change in behavior a if that is the case why haven't we instituted a process that is on a regular basis? >> the u.n. has consistently followed up with the troop contributing countries they have documented and presented evidence they have collected, following up with the troop contributing countries and have met with silence and frankly and

acting with to the fy17 pushed back and demand action. >> that is the question i really asking. is there a case you can cite a time when the un has demanded action where they deny funding for continuing to contribute to the peacekeeping efforts. >> i know of the number of examples have been with the u.s. urging and i can tell you he had allegations we knew about them at the time but we did learn about it and they did take action and held to fly the victims to

use the trial rigo they have engaged with member states that have been responsive in the democratic republic of congo of one of the forced intervention brigade has the highest levels of attention in day dealt with it so it does happen. the issue is it doesn't always happen and they get no response and when that happens it falls through the? >> wanna of the issues raised that if it was the

assessment if we had a person in charge to make sure of the allegations of the contributing countries take action to hold people responsible would that help solve the problem? >> the independent report in excruciating detail catalogs how information was diffused or fragmented with the bureaucratic response that in response the un has appointed as a special envoy to deal with this issue and we welcome back and think that will help provide a focal point within the u.s. a there can never again be an excuse or a diffusion of responsibility allowed to

fall to the? so we welcome that. >> has she taken action in yet? >> she was recently appointed an end and then a democratic republic of conroe -- condo and you will see action in short order. >> the senators both mentioned the leahy legislation that would have united states tonight assistance denied has this been met were there are documented cases of sexual exploitation and abuse? have we seen the united states refuse aid to countries for those who fail to take action? >> certainly with credible

evidence they fall under those laws. the individual you net level lead we have information, it goes to our database when they need it for the united states as well as the database back here. so i don't have a specific example but somebody has those credible allegations and that is in place is has been. >> i am asking the broader question have we denied dade two countries have failed to take action and with those troops that have been shown to be truth. >>.

>> should we consider that type of action of repeated abuses a and failures to take action? seven like you to respond. >> we have to be ready to consider that. it needs to be a case by case basis and in it isn't so much the incident happened but what the country does about it this incident will happen. if the country takes reasonable action and then we should continue working with them. >> right. i am saying if they fail to take action should be looked at suspending aid. thanks very much. >> and important question to adapt the leverage of our

bilateral relations but in a holistic way most of what we provide is in the health area. we don't give out freebies because we're in the business to buy assistance so you would read have to weigh whether to prevent the spread of pandemic disease after do the with sexual exploitation and abuse. air providing assistance to and that would not want to ski that if it is a tool not necessarily first resort into make that best

assessment with those setter named a and it is an ongoing confrontation. >> i would say if countries are not responding taking action and then they should not be included in the un peacekeeping therefore our contribution through our assessments should not go to those countries and to make them better with capacity building they're all great but if there is a willful and knowing this was they should not be part of peacekeeping in our money should not go to them. >>.

>> can ask how we deal with the country's as we talk about training does the judicial system detraining -- training or go a step for these young men before they get to these countries to insure they have the proper training so they take the steps necessary early those we have given the training to end an order to ensure from the home country. >> you raise a very hard and

to do the tactical trading training but we're pretty good at it as a country helping to build those institutions to backstop those units is much more urd difficult and i just a matter of a year in afghanistan my job was to build the afghan air force so i have lived a little bit and it is hard work. we do have some programs out there with the state department to take day pilot level look how we get after that institutional building.

i know they are working with these programs. but it is going to take a long time so think how hard it is to make it happen to their norms and values. >> battle they can solve the problem of those leaders in the justice system to have that proper training these are just the young men on the prowl all and from your perspective what you would like to see.

and potentially tried and with those standards put in place things for the question of when to include the thought was restarted to go off to every country to impart that critical importance to follow-up and open the dialogue with 80 there are at the early level

but in those that are ambassadors will seek that through our decisions that what my colleague says if we have been open door cruz said to have the and corruption they should be barred from peacekeeping altogether if i believe the resolution in the security council that we fought so hard for. >> so then let's talk about the country's give us the worst three to get an idea of what you are talking

about to prioritize their complete and total lack of regard for human rights violations of the three worst? >> i will refer to my colleague who said it is really hard to say who is the worst we're only now where we can identify before we did that have the information. >> we zaph countries your nigeria and morocco rwanda or ghana senator all canada germany slovakia moldova you want to pick three? you have to put it in canada

[laughter] or give us an idea to focus our attention maybe we should start with the worst the recall and though as a project that they should care about the issues. >> i will say is very important we need to identify those those allegations are horrific we think the secretary-general did the right thing to send them home they're not in peacekeeping anywhere else nor should they be but at the same time as part of the do focus we have seen the

democratic republic of congo has detained 20 peacekeepers and have filed charges so where do those trials go? several countries that you mentioned has started this judicial process or have finished against their peacekeepers so it is too early to be is the question. >> you say, go either other countries if you are going to prioritize? >> made the i can comment

the the troops were repatriated because of a pattern of abuse in addition into the republic of congo. and then were repatriated because of a pattern. the tune different things is a pattern of abuse became to lack of command and control and to non responsiveness. as allegations become apparent it is easy to see if there is a pattern of abuse we're only now understanding which countries have allegations that has been pending for a long time with inadequate follow-up or accountability

and we don't have an answer for you. >> it is important to know with 100 nuclear power plants we will focus on these first. to say we have the ability to think creatively. in to help to get the leaders who but are reluctant right now to make sure they are accountable in the military officers are accountable. >> we look at the same way that is the analysis we're doing.

>> that would be great to hearing if they were focused upon by the committee. >> tv the highest incidence or non responsive because those that our least responsive are turning the of blind eye to the atrocities. >> not this is fairly. bad is what we are trying to untangle. there are some countries that have had significant allegations against them to see them putting 20 people on trial it is very early stages and from quite a long

time to work through the judicial system but the point i want to emphasize is having a judicial process is no excuse for not taking action. there is in one piece that has deployed to the u.n. peacekeeping mission that doesn't have the ability to impose discipline. >> we agree with you. we want to help you and there is no excuse. so tell us who they are or what their excuses are and we will try to reinforce because there is the power of the purse that congress does have to focus attention on these issues.

>> just to clarify it has been a helpful exchange united nations can discipline the country that doesn't take appropriate steps to deny them the right and that has been done. but to be non responsive there isn't any direct that the united nations can take in the peer pressure and that is why we look for ways to help to have action taken and though those two points that we raised a for with a

report in 2005 in the entity that we try to reform is publishing information but it speaks do terrible leadership for lack of concern and the unwillingness to these issues and doesn't speak favorably of the senator. and really just one line of questions with the security council resolution i applaud the nation's for taking it seriously. should there be a standard feature that talk about recognizing trading is sufficient and if that is

not part of the security council resolution is that a probable area? >> it is not part of the security council resolution it is not taken up but it is in the general assembly that the model on which these are based will be up for review in 2017 and it is an area ripe for review to make stronger and more explicit actions of sexual exploitation. with that strategy to a significant provision is something we could all agree with. i appreciate it.

>> do you want to follow-up with this panel? we're all very upset typically the administration does not appreciate implant from those who use it on this side of the diocese but in this case may be they would welcome that and look forward to working with members on both sides of the aisle with additional pressure if i had to go to work every day to deal with united nations i may find other lines of work to deal with what is so ineffective but we thank you for your efforts