quorum call:

a senator: mr. president, i ask that the quorum call be vitiated. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. gardner: i ask that the senate be in a period of morning business with senators permitted to speak for up to ten minutes each. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. gardner: i ask unanimous consent that the committee requests at the desk be prescriptived in the record. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. gardner: i ask unanimous consent that the senate proceed to the consideration of s. res. 487 submitted earlier today. the presiding officer: the clerk will report. the clerk: senate resolution 487 commemorating the 100th anniversary of the reserve officers training corps program of the army. the presiding officer: is there objection to proceeding to the measure? without objection. mr. gardner: i ask unanimous consent the resolution be agreed to, the preamble be agreed to, and that the motions to reconsider be considered made and laid on the table, with no intervening action or debate u. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. gardner: i ask unanimous consent that when the senate completes its business today, it

adjourn until 8:15 friday, june 10 -- 8:15 a.m. friday, june 10. following the prayer and pledge, the morning hour be deemed expired, the journal of proceedings be approved to date, and the time for the two leaders be reserved for their use later in the day. following leader remarks, the senate resume consideration of senate 29 -- s. 29436789 further that filing deadline for second-degree amendments to s. 2943 be at:45 a.m. tomorrow. finally, that notwithstanding the provisions of rule 22, the cloture vote with respect to s. 2943 occur at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow. the presiding officer: is there objection? without objection. so ordered. mr. gardner: if there is no further business to come before the senate, i ask that it standers stand adjourned under the previous order. the presiding officer: the senate stands adjourned until 8:15 a.m. tomorrow.

>> he is a bright guy. i am not saying that. but either he doesn't understand, because this is a realm in which he has never dealt before, or he doesn't care. the president has to use the great powers of the office to attempt to undermine a federal

judge by placing pressure on that judge in any case especially one the president has, in this case, a personal financial stake. this kind of conduct is unprecedent unprecedent unprecedented. the legal profession should not remain silent, should not put up with it. there is one prominent legal commonitator put it, this speaks of tyranny and authori authorit. i agree. you know our founders created inpendence, it was written there is no liberty if the power of is not separated from the

legislative powers. i find donald trump's conduct in this regard reprehensible. it is a dangerous attack to a vital pillar of democracy, threats of intimidation and undercutting a judge that suggesting because of his heritage he is incapable of being fair. in addition to the this, it is racist. we have dealt with racist before so that is not what frightens me. it is the potential impact on the court. i might add a friendly note to my republican friends, many long-time colleagues in the

senate, they say trump is unacceptable, wrong and they sense it, but they refuse to confirm a judge of unquestional credentials so trump can nominate to fill that vacancy if he were to win. [applause] >> the failure of my friends, and by the way, it isn't a joke. it is driving the staff crazy even that i have so many republican friends. they tell you any time there is a crisis, send joe. it is like that commercial mikey will eat it. with all of this dysfunction, i respect this senate and the greatest honor of my life was to serve in the united states

senate as long as i have. the vast majority of my republican colleagues know better. this is an age of intimidation by gigantic contribution and the consequences of jerry mandering. the reason i don't lose faith is the bulk know better. the failure of the senate republicans to hold a hearing on judge chief garland has its own grave, practical and consequential consequences. when our framers drafted the constitution, they envisioned separateness, but inter-dependence.

autonomy but re riprosate. the constitution diffuses power, but it also contemplates that practice will integrate and disburse powers into the a workable government. it goes on to say it enjoins upon its branches separateness but inter-dependency. autonomm but repriciocty. i have seen the spirit of inter-dependence and reciprocity work but i have never seen it at a lower end. not among our people, but among our government, in our

government, the bonds that held together our diverse republic for the past 229 years are at least temporarily being frayed. article one of the constitution clearly states whenever there is a vacancy, for the one court, specified in the constitution, the supreme court, the president shall, not may, shall appoint someone to fill that vacancy with the advice and consent of the united states senate. president obama fulfilled his constitutionalal responsibility. he sought the -- constitutional -- advice of members of the senate, including republican members. he didn't get much feedback. but he chose the course of m

moderation. i will not take the time to list the number of senior republicans who have been flattering in the past about eric garland. a man that many of you have known for many years. matter of fact, the criticism the president got was from the left for choosing moderation. i wrote a long piece, with ron's help, of the american bar association meeting back in 19-when the hell was it? in 1917? [laughter] >> -- talking about what the role of the senate was. and what advice and consent meant, arguing that in a number of law articles we wrote, arguing that the president should seek the advice.

he should seek and the more divideded the government the more appropriate it is for the senate to raise its head because that is just as much of a right to determine who should be in the court as the president. the president is to propose a senate dispose of the proposal yet the republicans in the senate have totally abdicating their responsible by choosing to even hold a hearing in the united states judiciary committee which isn't required under the constitution. for the longest time, none were held. folks there is an old joke going i have been in the majority and minority and majority is better. but i really do, i think most people would acknowledge, i really do have a good ship with both sides of the aisle when i was there and since i have left. but i have never seen anything

like this. i have never seen anything like this. the dysfunctional congress is beginning to undermine the norms of how we conduct ourselves as a government. it is not only in violation of the motion of fairness, but it is in violation of their constitution responsibility. it jeopardizes the highest court in the nation being infected with the same dysfunction that is not only recognized by the american people but heads of state, everywhere i go. i think the white house staff here will tell you that i have traveled over a million one hundred thousand miles and the reason is i know these heads of state personally and they know when i speak i speak for the president. it is an advantage the secretary of state, the nasa security advisor, the success of defense doesn't have.

that is the purpose. and i will work out an agreement. you know? i will reach across the table and shake hands and here is what they will say to me. not a joke. all right, mr. vice president, whether i am in china, whether i am in ukraine, whether i am in any european country here is what they will say, not a joke. that will hold their hand and they will say but can you deliver? not does the president mean it. not do you mean it. but every deal requires some give. so you are asking me to go out there and support this. i am going to take some heat to my people for doing it. and i am not sure whether you will be able to deliver. i know you mean well.

that is how deep -- that is how deep the dysfunction in the congress has spread. let me be clear, you all know advice and consent includes consulting and voting and nobody has suggested, particularly me, that any senator has to vote yes on any particular nominee. voting no is their right and their option. it is an option of every senator to be able to exercise their right to vote no. but saying nothing, seeing nothing, reading nothing, hearing nothing, and deciding in advance to do nothing, before the president even names a nominee, is not an option our founders contemplated or one

that is left option. i presided over eight justs, nine total nominees in the supreme court. more than anyone alive i am embarrassed to say. i supported most, i voted against some. but every single nominee got a hearing. every single nominee got out of committee, to the senate floor, even though nominees who did not receive a majority vote in the committee, because i believe the constitution says the senate shall advice and consent, not the judiciary, every senate nominee got an up and down goat.

not most of the time. every single time. [applause] >> now, unable to square their unprecedented conduct which they begin to call the biden rule until they realized what the biden rule was -- the constitution. my friends, and they are my friends. mitch mcconnell and chuck grassley, they are trying another tactic asking what difference does it make it it there are eight or nine members of the court. at one point there were nine, one point eight, there hasn't always been nine. but i believe, and i am sure you do, that it makes a great deal of difference. we all know that the supreme court's rulings make a significant difference in the every day lives of the american

people. more than two centuries ago, justice john marshall declared quote the court has the duty, not has the right, has the duty to say what the law is. not an opinion. a duty. the supreme court has a solom -- solemn duty. by keeping a seek vacant for hundreds of days, because that is what it will end up being if we don't get a vote this year, matters bought just because of the uncertainty that it p perpetuates but because of the way the fractures the country. justice scalia says if you have eight justice on the court it raises the possibility that by

reason of a tie vote the court will find itself unable to resolve the significant issues presented by the case. we have seen it already. just in the past few months, pressing, controversial issues that prompted the court to grant review in the first place, and most of those cases because of different discussions in different circuits, now remain unresolved. the court believes they are too important to be left in limbo are left in limbo and suspended in mid-air. a 4-4 court may be fine if the majority of cases are able to be decided but it has many deleterious affects. increased litigation costs and

delays, justice olay said the burden falling more heavily on average americans than those with deep pockets able to decide which district to move on, and move in. different rulings in different parts of the country. and such a divided court, leaves different interpretations of the law to stand in different states creating confusion and uncertainty. it has already happened. keep in mind, we have another entire term of this potential confusion if the vote is not allowed to be shared. anybody who thinks whatever the next president is, and god willing it will be secretary clinton -- [applause] >> i don't say that for political reasons. even if it is a democrat the idea of this being brought up in a month, two or three is highly

unlikely. even in a functioning system it averages over two months. if the conflicts between the federal court of appeals are allowed to stand we end up with the patchwork of the constitution and federal law in consistent with equal justice. federal law that apply to the whole county will be constitutional in some parts and unconstitutional in others. claims of racist could be coming out different ways in california and colorado. claims of government interference and religious could have one fate in iowa and another fate in illinois and wis cosson. claims of unlawful police -- wisconsin -- might be resolved by one standard in nebraska and another next door in kansas. i spoke to this two months ago

at georgetown law. just in the few weeks, there have been important cases in which the justices decided not to decide. i don't have to go through those cases. you know just like i do ask the assistant general he knows them all by heart. the meaning and extent of our federal constitution, our constitutional rights, freedom of speech, freedom to follow the teachings and faith and determine what constitutes teaching and faith and right to be free from unreasonable search could be dependant on where you live. i think most people think that is unfair and unacceptable. we are after all the united states of america. even the constitution prowre prowrekt -- protects rights across the board or it it doesn't. the supreme court needs to be staffed to nine.

not one that is disabled and divided but one that is able to rule on issues like separation of church and state, whether there is a threat to the right of abortion, or safe and legal abortion, police searches, it goes on. i won't -- it is the last audience i have to list the concerns to. we have to be sure a fully functioning court is in the position to address the significant issues and geographic happenings cannot fragment our national unity. the longer the high court vacancy remains the more serious the problem becomes and the more we undermine the confidence in the court. back at a the issue of confidence, the problem is compounded by turbulence, confusion about safety, security and liberty and privacy.

this is an uncertain time in the minds of americans. look at the election process so far. and i am not talking about one candidate. i am talking about the process. the problems that will affect the future of this country, not only for our children but our grandchildren, we cannot let this stand. and so i urge you, i urge you to keep up the drum beat, because i promise you they know better. i have spoken to 17 of my colleagues on the other team and because i have never violated the confidence i will not say to the press who they are. but i mean it. i am serious. start off by saying, joe, i know you are right. i know you are right. i have gone so far as to tell half a dozen of them look, i am not asking you to step out first because i know it could cost you

in your state. i am not asking you to do that. but i am asking you if anybody steps out, if anybody steps up, step out. i think it is still possible we can have a hearing before this congress adjourns. i think we can resolve this. but the one thing i am certain of is it will only be resolved if the pressure is unrelentingly kept up. if we continue to point out, to the state and senators, that you know know better. if we keep the drum beat, not with the personal attack, but making a case of why it is so important. my closing comments to you are stay at it.

the fact of the matter is the vast majority of the members of the senate know what disregard the senate has held at his moment. they know that they have to change it. i know it sincerely. when someone does i expect the rest to follow. we don't need all of them. we don't need all of them. ladies and gentlemen, thank you for all you do, i get paid big bucks to do my job, you don't. i know all of you wish you had my salary. i know that.

you recognize your intellectual and integrity and devotion of the constitution. you keep writing, speaking and unrelenting effort to get a hearing. if we get a hearing, we got the judge. god bless you all and may god protect our troops. [applause] [applause] >> c-span's washington journal

live every day with news and policy issues that affect you. on friday, we are devoting the first part of the show to the life of mohumed ali. and then the deputy assistant for the social security administrator talk about the findings and obstacles to workers' financial and ways to increase and secure personal retirement savings. beginning live at 7 a.m. eastern on friday morning. join the discussion. >> madam secretary, we proudly give 72 of our delegate votes to the next president of the united states.

[applause] >> we are going public. we will be watcheded by our friends and i would hope as i said before, the senate may change. not as a constitution. but may be come a more efficient body because of the televised series. >> the senate is being broadcast on television for the first

time. not that we have operated in secret until now. millions of americans have sat in the galleries and observed senate debates during their vistts to washington. but today they can witness the proceedings in their own home. the senate floor has been a part of the stage, the senators have been acting on that stage, the audience is in the galleries, and by our action today we haven't really fundamentally altered that situation. we have simply enlarng -- enlarged the galleries and pushed out the walls to all americans who want to watch. >> remembering 30 years of coverage of the u.s. senate on c-span2. >> the u.k. will vote on whether to remain in the european union on june 23ered. british prime minister, dave cameron, and independent's party

lead leader nigel farage participated in a referendum this week. >> stay or go? tonight as the arguments intensify, two men with different visions of the future of the european union are live before a studio audience. the battle lines are drawn on the biggest political decision of a lifetime. >> good evening, there are now 16 days to go before the u.k.

decides to stay in or leave the european union. david cameron called this referendum as prime minister and wants us to remain. nigel farage has spent his political life trying to get out. over the next hour, both men will be questioned by the audience. first up is nigel farage. [applause] >> welcome, mr. farage. our first question is from daniel green this evening. >> the majority of the u.k. soft economist and business leaders believe leaving the eu has a risk of decline and potentially recession. i don't see what i, as a member of the public, has to gain from this.

>> that is what got me into politics. we had a government backed up by the puc and expert economist and mr. cameron, who at the time worked in the treasury. they took us into exchange rate and pegged the level of sterling. i was trading currency and thought it was bonkers. within two years, we had record bankruptcy and repossession. then the euro came along and 15 years ago, the same people were saying if you don't join the euro i am afraid foreign direct investment in the britain will cease, the city of london will close, and table things will happen to you and all i can say is thank god we didn't join the euro. and this same gang who is wrong about eric it seems because of

the process of group thing, and although they masculiquerade as independent, are telling us terrible things will happen to us outside of the european union. they have been wrong before and they are wrong again. there are strong independent voices in independence. people like the former director general of the cbi. the trend is if they currently are in post, they support the status quo. once they retire or resign, the former governor of the bank of england, then they speak freely. trade is not made by governments or bureaucrats. it is made by people like you. you chose to buy a product or don't. once we divorce from political union we will then go on buying cars, wine and trading.

>> thank you very much indeed and thank you daniel for that question. we will go to aaron barge. >> hello, i work with multi nationals worth billion do is the economy and they are here because we are in the eu, do you think they will risk thousands of jobs and billions in income? >> i don't buy the fact a pharmaceutical company is in britain because we are in the eu. >> some operations can only be done in the eu. i cannot do my job in switzerland. you have to be in the eu and that is why they have eu-head quarters in the u.k. >> i have say i am not totally happy with the way much of the pharmaceutical industries has behaved. i see they are lobbying in

brussels and it is massive. i have seen the way they have been good at putting out a business and people producing alternative medicine. not everything your industry has done has been good. so i have heard these arguments about car manufactures. all hear all of these arguments people are only here because we are in the eu. in this country, we have actually a big domestic market. just to give you a sense of perspective, right? only 12% of the entire british economy is export do is the european union. >> billions. the report from the government, get that around your head, the european agencies is in london. all of the medicines, the groundbreaking ones are reviewed in london. you cannot do that if you are

not part of the eu. >> i am sorry. but this is entirely an obsolete -- whether you are based in london -- for example, our biggest industry isn't pharmaceuticals but by a mile it is financial services from stocks, shares, hedge funds, it is our biggest industry and brings the biggest revenue and all of that is being scattered around europe. >> thank you very much. we mean stay with these issues and go to heather reed who has another question. >> if we leave we may find ourselves punished or crippled to set examples for other countries that wish to leave the eu. what safeguards are in place to protect us especially when it doesn't go our way? >> what my my mom and dad's

generation vote for 40 years ago? tariff-free access to the market. we find the tariffs across the world are coming down because of globalization and for the benefit of tariff-free access to a market that sells us more than we sell them, that regulates not just the 12% of the economy that sells to the eu, but the other 88% as well and gives us unlimited free movement of people and bans us from making trades with the rest of the world. the cost of membership far outweighs any benefit now. let's say the worst case scenario, the french and germans decide to cut off their nose despite their face, let's just say they decide to cut off their nose despite their face, with the biggest export market in the world, if they put tariffs on us it will be significantly lower than our net financial contribution so no deal is better than the rotten deal we

have at the moment. >> the president of the eu commission has already said that disaster is not welcome -- >> isn't he lovely? >> he said it would not be handled with kid gloves. and the prim minister of spain -- >> we are british. we are better than that. we will not be in ttimidateinti. >> steven denison smith has another question. >> mr. farage, you maintain wages are kept low by uncontrolled immigration in the u.k. and if we leave the eu one of the benefits will be the wages will rise. wouldn't it be increased wages

will make us less competitively globally? isn't it better to let wages rise because of the strong economy than artificially restrict the supply of labor? >> what we have done is artificially given our labor market a situation since 2004-2005 where there is a dramatic oversupply. that has driven down the cost of labor. ...

he was asked if britain leaves the eu and has a work permit system for foreign workers, wouldn't wages go up and he said yes but i don't think think that would be a good thing. here's something you have is more to this country, more about our community than just being competitive. >> i'm sorry sir, why would we open up our doors to flood our labor market and see some of the finest. >> but if we need so many to mop up behind us, if you need to double the cost of that kind of work, what are you going to do?

>> i don't think it will double the cost but it will be significantly high. i think it is wrong, wrong, wrong that the average decent family in this country, their living standards have fallen by 10% over the last few years and it's about time as a society we started thinking that just about gdp figures, not just about the rich getting richard but about all the decent britons. >> we're going to go to another question. >> what i would like to know is how can you use tactics for that campaign and enlighten the recent sexual assault in germany , you suggested that the vote remains that the woman should be subjected to the same horrific assault. >> just calm down there because sometimes in life, what it says

at the top of the newspaper page and what you've actually said to me different things. i'm used to being demonized because i've taken on this and, just let me finish, and when i first suggested that we should have an australian system system.system, you now would think i said something dreadful. now lots of people like that. what i said was that it was a huge issue in germany. it's a huge issue in sweden. i think angela made a big mistake by saying please, anyone come. what's happened is a very large number of young single males were settled in germany and in sweden who come from cultures where attitudes toward women are different. >> are you not embarrassed that they said your legitimizing racism. >> while i'm sorry but i'm not going to stand here and attack the archbishop of canterbury,

but i think he would've done better to have read actually what i said and not what the headline was. he would do well to see what the head of the roman catholic church in germany has said that he's made some very robust comments. >> you're using them as bait to pry upon people about fears on migration. >> this is an a suit for the future, it is a piddly little issue in this election campaign, but i knew that at some point in this campaign the remainders would come for me and inflate something i said out of proportion. i do believe in porter controls i do believe we need to have a sensible balanced migration policy and i do believe germany made a bad mistake. >> we are going to stay on this issue and go to morgan. i know a lot of people, i am part of a particularly dominant black british audience and you

are going to increase the fear and discrimination of the black british people through your anti-immigration rhetoric. are you encouraging racism. >> i don't think it could be more wrong and here's why. >> i take a very strongly pro-commonwealth view. i think it was very bad and wrong of us to turn our backs on the commonwealth in favor of the european political project. we made a bad mistake. so now what do we do, if we've got altercation and you come from india or parts of africa, you now find it very difficult to get into this country despite the historical strong. >> you are anti- immigration. >> i'll tell you what. >> in your campaign you have gone against people that look nonwhite.

>> how are you going to address people who look different but are nationals in this country. the more the majority of people who look black british or nonwhite have this concern. >> can i tell them that most of them voted for my party in the last election. >> did they? >> you're not listening, ali grew? i can't answer this unless i'm allowed to talk. i'm explaining to you that i take a view that is strongly commonwealth. if we have been in strawman style.system rather than an open door to 508 million people then actually it will be better for black people coming into britain who currently find it very difficult because we have this open door. out also say this to you. once again, this attempt demonize the league campaign or

me and actually there is big support for this among the economic system in this country who know that this is damaging all of our communities. here's our job. may be our only chance as a nation to get a grip on this issue. >> thank you very much. >> we now go to john nightingale >> a number of high profile studies have clearly shown the eu migrants contribute far more to the british economy than they take out. how can you constantly ignore these findings and continue to tell us that immigration is a disaster for the u.k. question. >> we see reports that say eu migrants pay more tax than they take out. we see, i saw a report yesterday that suggested that actually it's a marginal loss for the country. well tell tell you what we do.

i'll meet you in the middle and will talk to the house of lords who said it's probably about equal but mr. cameron, who will come on "after words" will tell you it's a wonderful economic economic benefit. despite his pledge in the general election of producing immigration of tens of thousands year, he now says it would be disastrous for our economy. the real truth is that the population of this country is rising as a number where we need to value people's quality of life and standard of living and not just gdp figures. if immigration continues at the current rate our population will be 80,000,000 x by 2040. just cope with that. we need to build a new house every four minutes night and day just to cope with the current number. >> what i'm saying to you is. >> let me tell you that we, as you well know have an aging population.

we are going to need migrants to pay our pensions, to to pay for hospitals, to pay for the nhs, all that will be necessary. if you think you can actually stop people coming in here, if if you persuade our country to leave the european union and then you find in fact every country, every european country that wants to trade in the free market has to have the free movement of people, what are you going to do? >> then are you going to ask to join again? >> nowhere else in the world apart from the eu is the argument made that to trade with each other you need to have free movement of people. that doesn't exist anywhere else. >> but it does in the eu and we live in europe. the american some more to the market than we do. they are not members, they do not have a trade deal and they most certainly don't have free movement of people. >> every european country that is not in the eu that wants to trade with the eu has to have

free movement. >> thank you very much. we will cover more topics. i'm going to know now to this gentleman who has a? law and order. >> according to the director, there are increasing benefits from our membership in the eu. they have said it would have a negative impact, wouldn't it be better for us to leave the eu. how will you ensure our safety isn't compromised if we leave. >> again, it's the same debate. some people say that it's much better to be with the european union and they tend to be the people who are employed. >> then, okay then you get others that's actually it's a very dangerous dangerous place for us to be. look, i take this very simple view. the same poll said that the

migrant policy, over the last year has led to up to 5000g hotties coming into the european union jihadists coming into the european union. they said we might as well but as simon says there is welcome. we have a very real problem. how do we deal with issues like this this should be possible. it says european unit union on a pit i think to make it safer we need to get back british passports so we can check anyone coming in.

>> you have to consider the cases involved in europe. you've got the convention and if all of them leave they will all be taken out. you have the arrangement that are not always terrorist or immigrant related. there's a huge number of changes >> you have to be very brief, we need to move on. >> so is it a sovereign nation where we cooperate and exchange information with our friends and neighbors just as we do with the americans and no one says we have to become the 51st state of america to do this pit i suggest we do this as a sovereign nation and not give away the authority.

>> we've got a lot of intelligence to deal with the outside. the ones within the european union are in that group and i don't think -- okay, were going to speak and hear from john who has a question about sovereignty >> even if we left the eu we will still be members of the homeland, trade organization, the un, the ins and all sorts of organizations and all of which deal with trading to some extent so is it really a sovereignty or is it something else? >> we have no vote on the wto. when this trades being discussed, were not even in the room because we've given away the ability to do that to an unelected bureaucrat based in brussels.

if i'm elected and they are appointed, they have the sole right to propose legislation. >> there appointed by representative. >> we live in an interdependent world but the point about this referendum, for us us to vote and get our independence as a nation and that means we make our own laws in our own parliaments, and we can then trade and make our own decisions. >> one more question please. excuse me for interrupting. >> we've been told that this referendum is an opportunity. i'm interested to know what the eu will look like in 20 years time if we stay in it.

just look at what they've done to greece and the mediterranean country. the migrant chryslers is now dividing countries and dividing within countries a new form of politics. the money has run out and yet at the same time they are saving up for the day after our referendum their announcements about a european army and increase european budget. the project doesn't work. i want us to get back our independence and say we will be good europeans. we will trade with europe, cooperate with europe but govern ourselves. i believe when we do that the rest of europe will do that too. a happy europe will be a democratic europe with sovereign states who are good neighbors in the same street. that's where i want to get us to. >> thank you very much. thank you and we will. [applause]

were going to take a short break now. when we come back mr. cameron will be here to take more questions from our audience so please stay here for that. >> hello and welcome back. in the first half of our program we had the independence party and nigel put forth his case for why we should leave the eu. now david cameron who wants us to us day, it's his turn to face our studio audience welcome. were going to go straight to our first question. >> mr. cameron, they seem to be convinced that if britain leaves the eu that we will be going

into recession. recently you said we couldn't survive inside the eu. why do you think there would be economic meltdown if we decide to leave? >> i think the question for us is how do we thrive? how do we create opportunities and jobs for children and grandchildren. that to me is what this debate is about. i think think what's so unique about it is the extraordinary consensus. the bank of london and the monetary fund all saying that they believe we would suffer a hit to our economy, a hit two jobs and all that means two people is lower wages and higher prices in our shops and potentially a recession. i think it will be irresponsible for me not to warn of these things. after all some of these bodies are paid to warn prime ministers

when their economy face risks. so yes we can find a way but in my view it's not the right way. if i can just take them moment to say why all these experts are right and it's to do with this single market, 500 people. it's where we sell half of the goods and services that we export. almost half. of course if we have less good access to that market our economy will default and they'll be fewer opportunities. that's why think the experts are right and we should listen to their opinion. we should vote to remain on june 23. >> would you like to come back on that? >> we have a treasury which didn't look after credit cards for we have a home office where people come over from eastern europe. the last time anyone counted 1.6 million had already arrived. i can't remember a time when there's been such a consensus with all these economists. what they're saying makes sense to me. if you are great trading nation and we are and if you've cut

yourself off from the most important market then you are going to be disappointed. what nigel said was that multinational companies or others wouldn't reduce their investments in britain, but let's take for instance the car industry, fantastic it success. another 300,000 helping to helping to supply it. if we have the same situation as america than our cars would face a 10% tariff, 10% tax and that's why i think we would see less investment and less jobs. i think there's a real concern we would be worse off if we leave. >> we have a lot to get to. were going to take a question from anthony. >> prime minister, you gave an excellent speech in 2013 outline the minimum reforms that you wanted to get from the eu. one of the key ones was that you

wanted to remove the free movement of people so that we could recruit skilled people from all over the world, not people from the eu. you were basically humiliated on that. so why on earth are you now saying that the eu is wonderful. you were saying you would leave if you didn't get those reforms. >> what i said as we needed to be less than a single currency so i wanted guarantees. i got those. i said i wanted it to be less. craddick so i wanted targets to cut regulation and i got that. i said that i wanted to make sure it was less of a political union for us pretty think think were there for trading corporation and working together but we live in a country called great britain. so crucially, on migration and movement of people i said i didn't think it was right that people could come to our country and immediately take advantage of the benefits system.

what i've secured is this idea, this proposal that a people come here, first of all they can't claim unemployment benefit. if they don't have a job within six months they have to go home. if they do work here and many people do work here they don't get full access to our welfare system until they've worked here for four years. i think that is a solution because it's no more something for nothing. you can come here and work but you have to pay them before you get access. if you need to skilled people from outside the you eu, i've had to suspend thousands of pounds to get a tier two visa for my staff to come here. it's ridiculous when someone can walk in here and do the most junior unskilled job from the eu and we can't get the skilled people we need from anywhere where we need them.

[applause] >> honestly, the control of immigration as a important issue and a challenge. one of the ways we tried to control it from the rest of the world as we say we should do more to train our own people here to do the jobs of the british economy is delivering. so what we have is if there's a shortage of a particular operative occupation we say you can go seek that from overseas. but what i want to see her more friendship and more people going to university and young people trained to do the jobs that are country needs. that is perhaps the best way of reducing immigration. >> we have a question for you. >> the place where i grew up is now a no go zone. how is the eu and uncontrolled

immigration working for me? >> what i would say is i think there are good ways of controlling immigration and there are bad ways of controlling immigration. the good ways what i just explained of seeing people can come here and work and contribute but they have to pay in before they get out. when it comes to immigration from outside the you eu which is more than half, we do put a limit on the numbers that come for economic reasons, but i would say frankly, if we want to build houses if we want to invest in our health service and we want good schools for our children we have to strengthen and safeguard our economy.

he kept on talking about gdp isn't all that matters. gdp is the size of our economy. it's the combination of all the wealth that our country creates. he's basically saying it doesn't really matter. he's so keen to get us out of europe that he is prepared to sacrifice jobs and growth all the way. we mustn't do that. please, i voted for you in the last election. one of the things on your manifesto was to get immigration down. you haven't been able to do that because you haven't been allowed to do that. that's the bottom line. how are you, i can see my family standard of living going down because of this influx that we call control. now i'm sorry to say but your closing statement last week was, if we leave the eu were rolling a dice with her children's future. i think quite the opposite. if you stay in, you've you've ruled that dice are ready i was the don't agree with that. i think the biggest risk we can take is to pull a lot of the eu and pull out of the single market and damage jobs and then

there would be fewer opportunities for our children and grandchildren. when people go to vote on june 23, i hope they think about their children and grandchildren and the jobs and the opportunity they want for them in the country that we want to build together. we want to be great britain and work great if we stay in these organizations and fight for the values we believe in. >> we want to stay on this issue there's a question to you on nhs. >> mr. cameron, i don't have to tell you that we currently do not have enough resources. if we remain in the eu, what plans do you have to meet the

pressures of migrants on the nhs and its workers. >> if we stay in the you and we keep our economy strong, that is key to keeping a strong nhs and that's why the head of the nhs said it's only with a strong economy that you can keep putting money and resources into the nhs. on the issue of migration, absolutely agree it is a challenge but i don't think the challenge we should meet by damaging our economy. as we think about it, i think, i think we should also think about the eu nationals that work in our nhs. very often. >> you don't need eu nationals to work in the nhs. if that was your main concern, you wouldn't be taking away funding for the nurses. my issue is what path are we going to have in place so people can get mri scans when they need to. i don't have the let people down on a day-to-day basis. what facilities can you put in place to ensure we can build this? >> what were going to put in the next or 12 billion in this parliament of the nhs. >> something toward making sure we meet waiting times not just for cancer but everything else. >> i just want to say, we are providing excellent care. you need to do your part.

>> we have a question now from stewart. >> we went to the eu to reform our membership and get a better bill and you share my frustration that they're still able to come into the u.k. and claim benefits. what assurance can you give us that if we stay you will try to reform. i agree with you, reform doesn't end. if we go to stan we should keep reforming this organization. i would say that i think we do have a special status in the eu. we are not in the europe. we have our own currency and we kept our own borders. were now going to be out of the union proposal. our membership is right for britain. it gives us the trade lip operation. it helps us work with other countries to get what we want. in terms of reform, i think the

things i secured do help us. they safeguard our country which means we can't be discriminated against. they make sure there are targets and regulations on business. yes the reform goes on, but of course if we leave, the reform the reform and's. here's what really happens if we leave. of course we still want to set into that market. we still have to meet the regulations that brussels lays down but we won't be at the table. will be like a country with our ear and our face pressed up against trying to find out what happens with other countries and i would say that is no way for the fifth guest economy in the world to behave. we need to be in this organization fighting for british interest in british jobs, leaving his quitting and i don't think we are quitting. i think we are fighting. we fight for these organizations for what we think is right. >> i was the opportunity to say we've got this referendum coming

and this is my opportunity get the bill that's right for britain. i don't know how we will be able to change that later on down the line. >> you mention specifically the issue of benefits. one of my key demands which i have is if you come here, you don't get unemployment benefits but if you don't have a job after six months you have to leave. it is the free movement to come and work but not to live off someone else's taxpayer. in britain you're going to have to work here for four years, pay into the system and contribute to our economy before you get full access to our system. i think that is a good proposal and one that we only get if we stay. if we leave reform is over and i worry what would happen to our economy and what i think is the most important thing in this referendum. >> by how many figures do you expect the migration as a result

of the reform? >> i haven't made a forecast because frankly, we've had extraordinary years recently in the european union. the first five years when i was prime minister, our economy created more jobs than the rest of the eu put together. we have seen a lot of people coming to live and work here. actually nine out of ten who work are british nationals. two thirds of the jobs i've created have been british people taking those jobs. i'm not going to make a forecast but it stands to say that if today you can come in to the eu and get 10,000 pounds of tax credit on top of your wages, and i'm saying you're not going to have that in the future, clearly that will make a difference. a difference. >> thank you very much. now we get a? the sovereignty. >> mr. cameron, we just celebrated the 800th anniversary of mate magna carta.

we have the greatest legal system in the world. is it not shameful that since joining the eu, our parliament is no longer sovereign and our supreme court is no longer supreme and our nation is no longer self-governing. >> first well, i think we are engaged in the greatest act of national sovereignty that we've had for many years. a referendum or the politicians and the people will decide whether we stay or whether we leave. i think parliament is sovereign. we've just had all sorts of proposals and measures, some of which you might agree with and some that you won't but there british proposals from the british people for the british government. you hear a lot of talk about patrick chisholm that as far as i'm concerned, i love this country with a passion. i think were an amazing country. i said if you love your country then you don't damage its economy. you don't restrict opportunities for young people. you don't actually isolate your country and reduce its influence

in the world. frankly i do worry about referendum if we do choose to leave and you don't strengthen your country by choosing to leave. i think this is a case for a bigger better britain. let me go directly to this point. >> your own house of commons library is estimated up to 65% of our laws are made were also in the position that our own supreme court judges can be overruled by european judges, some of whom have never stepped foot in this country. it's a disgrace. >> to me what really matters, truth sovereignty is about control. do do you have control over your country's destiny? we need access to the market. if we leave we have to set into

that market and obey every single one of the rules and regulations to fill into that market but we would have no say over what they are. let's take the car industry. i want to make sure were around that table writing the rules for electric cars. i want us to be the leader. i want us to be the winner in europe and in the world when it comes to technologies like this. we don't enhance our influence by walking away. we reduce or influence. so it might give you the illusion of sovereignty to withdraw on june the 23rd, but you would find out in area after area after area, things that affect our great country, we would have no say over. when we want to try to make sure iran can't get a nuclear weapon, we need to make work in these organizations and in nature. and yes we need to work in the eu. sometimes it can drive me mad. it is a bureaucracy. it is frustrating but i honestly believe walking away quickly would reduce our national

influence and as a result would damage our country. >> thank you. also today, we have a question, also from here. >> i know that were all meant to elect, but every time i asked my customers, not not one of them has a clue. none. now that is shameful on their part and it's shameful that the eu isn't reaching out where it should be. we just don't know who they are. we've not got a clue. i've asked many of them, so many of them and not one knows. what are your thoughts on that? they either want the european

parliament or the eu to have the power. the people are concerned about the future, if there's any proposal to pass further powers from our parliament to brussels, automatically, automatically that has to be a referendum. there's a lock on whether more powers can be passed. does brussels need reform? yes. can it be frustrating yes, the question we have to ask ourselves in this referendum is not if i like the european parliament, frankly i don't like it very much but are we better off, always stronger and safer if we stay within this organization or if we leave. that's the question. people share many of my frustrations about the eu, but frustrations within an institution or with the relationship is not a justification for walking away. it's for staying and fighting for what you need for security for our country.

>> thank you very much indeed. here's question with some law and order from casey thompson. >> we've seen more evidence with the type of crime committed with eu nationals in our country. if we remain in the eu, how can we protect the public from the eu nationals who have created offenses in our own country? >> first of all, we will keep our border control. we can stop anyone at our border, eu nationals included in if we think there a problem, we don't have to let them in. in my renegotiation i strengthen that to give us all the freedom to do that. >> second point, we have a lot of european and other foreign nationals in our prisons. one of my great frustrations as prime minister is going to some of these countries whether it's nigeria or jamaica or pakistan and trying to get foreign nationals out of our prison and over to the countries where they came from. in europe, we do at least half a

directed on prisoner transfers which is now coming into force and we can get those people out of our prisons to they can be paid for by the governments whose citizens they are. if we leave, we will be back to the situation we had before and it's far more difficult to get the people of our country. >> the 59 individuals that were released today in the press. the government tried to get them out of the country because they've created serious offensive but they said no, they have to remain. >> how can we deal with that issue. >> because this is not fully enforced. it is coming in in the coming months. we've already seen some go and will see a lot more go. what certain is this. if we leave and were outside these directives will be on the other side of the world where can take months or years or decades. i'm old enough to remember, when

inside europe people could see britain and it takes decades to get them back. because of the european arrest warrant, we can now get people back and they're being brought back to face justice in our courts because of that. why are they entering the u.k. in the first place. i understand that, but why are they entering the u.k. in the first place. it means that we have more negotiation to stop people from coming in in the first place. leave in those things go. we will leave another question when you leave, are you finished as prime minister. [laughter] >> i thought those pre-frank.

and if you do lose, what does britain look like in 20 years time time? >> first of all, this is a vote of the british people. your votes all count equally. it's not a vote for the politician. and what i said, having promised this referendum, i said i would accept accept your instruction. is very important that people's individual career don't get caught up in this footprint i want everyone to focus very clearly on the choice. the choice you heard tonight, do go with nigel and you put jobs at risk and affect our economy or do you go with the conservative government and put our differences aside and stay in this organization. as for what i think this this country needs, should we stay or

should we go, here's the argument, i worry if we leave that were going to see our economy suffer. i think the right thing to do is fight for britain inside the eu and don't take the little england option. >> thank you very much. >> we have heard from mr. cameron and nigel. the decision is yours when the polls open on june the 23rd. if you haven't already done so you have two hours left to register to vote. on thursday i will be hosting the referendum debate.

stay with us for reaction and analysis. thanks so much to everybody for all of your questions. good night. >> of next on c-span2, a hearing on the h2 b visa program which permits u.s. employers to temporarily hire foreign workers to perform non- agricultural labor jobs. massachusetts senator elizabeth warren was critical of republican candidate donald trump tonight. we will have her remarks later. book tv has 48 hours hours of nonfiction books and authors every weekend. here are some programs coming up this weekend. this saturday and sunday at 11:00 a.m. eastern book tv is live from the 32nd annual book

festival chicago. one of the midwest's largest outdoor literary events drawing more than 150,000 book hundred 50000 booklovers to the two day festival. saturday features thomas frank author of whatever happened to the party of the people. also mrs. west, shrill notes from a loud woman. jeremy mccarter, author of hamilton the revolution. on sunday sebastian younger talks about his book about homecoming and belonging. elizabeth talks about the war on poverty to the war on crime. sidney blumenthal discusses his book, a a self-made man. the political life of abraham lincoln 1809 - 1849 and bradley with russell kirk, american conservative. then saturday night at 915, tom gold talks about his personal library and reading habits.

then barbara boxer talks about the art of tough, fearlessly facing politics in life, plus her life and career in politics. senator boxer is interviewed by minnesota senator amy koba sharp >> i said, you know, that's were were well and good but if we have to turn back and walked down the stairs now there's a bank of cameras down there were going to tell them that we were unable to see anybody. >> he says just a minute and comes back and says go inside room and george mitchell will meet with you. you said you had to open this up and they did. >> go to book tv.org the complete we can schedule. >> next a senate panel leaks at the effect of the h2 b temporary worker program on the labor market.

trade union leaders and economist testified before the senate judiciary subcommittee on immigration per the chair is senator jeff sessions. >> thank you all for being here. i want everyone present to be able to watch the hearing without obstruction. if people stand up and block the view of those behind them orsp speak out of turn it's not fair or considerate to others and officers will remove thoseov individuals from the room. before we begin with opening statements for those, i want to explain how we are going to proceed today. we have one panel of witnesses. i will make an opening statement and then we will have an opening statement from the rankingts member but due to scheduling tii conflict we can proceed without,

an opening statement from him today. after a brief introduction each witness will have five minutes for opening statement. following their statement we will begin the first round of wc questions in which each senator will have five minutes. after the first round, if any senator wishes to continue with questions then we will have a second round of questions. so with that, i will go to my opening statement. today's hearing is a continuation of a series of thah hearings that this subcommittee has held over the last few months about the effects of our current immigration program on working americans. as many of you will remember, we held a hearing earlier this year that highlighted the damage done to the wages and job opportunities of americans in the highly skilled segment of our economy. we also held a hearing earlier this year that established that our current high level of immigration, both legal and

illegal, are having a negative impact on wages and job opportunities for american workers as a whole.fe in fact, i think very few dispute that the current large flow of labor into the country is suppressing american wages.sb today we are here to examine the effects of the h2 b nonimmigrant visa program on the wages and job opportunities of american workers in the so-called us are skilled segment of the labor market. a visa program that issues 66000 new work visas every year to temporary, low skilled foreign labor. these are the jobs that some people say americans are not willing to do. i construction, seafood, seafood, processing, landscaping, truckck driving, hospitality jobs and jobsrs. it's important to note however that the h2 b program does not provide jobs for the arab prltural sector.r.

that's not included in what weat are talking about today. agricultural section.s were also told that they're not willing to do jobs that h2 b workers will fill but also workers cannot find anyone to do them. they say they cannot find anyone who is willing to drive truck or build houses or commercial buildings, wait wait tables, push a lawn more, working the landscaping or clean hotels. we are here today with few exceptions that this is not the case. not only are there willing americans but they are not in short supply. according to data from the u.s. department of labor that total label force participation rateac in the united states last month was approximately 62.6%. for those with a high school diploma only, or the equivalent, it was approximately 57% only. for those with less than a high

school diploma it was approximately 44%. so this is a historic low. the work force participation rate is a disaster for americans. we have more and more people in the labor force and fewer and fewer people working. these statistics make clear that there is simply not a shortage of american workers rather there is a shortage of americans with jobs to work. too few have jobs.st the impact of the h2 b program is not just on the available job opportunities for american workers. it also affects the wages of american workers who actually managed to find a job in this. despite all the evidence, 66000 foreign workers available under the law are not enough for special interest to demand moreo they have an insatiable demand for foreign labor which is easy to exploit, much easier to replace than american workers and often paid substantially

when less wages. they do not feel, and may be strictly speaking, they have noo loyalty to the other american workers. their loyalty is their bottom line and their stockholders. but somebody needs to be concerned about america. what's happening to our people, our country, our economy. how many people on welfare, how many people need to be working instead of being on welfare. how many people's retirement is being compromised because they're out of work for extended periods of time and wouldn't they like to have a pay raise every now and then instead of having flat wages for the last 20 years. instead of having an open and honest debate about increasing the actual number of visas available under the cap, these special interest have found it easier to what a mass to an accounting trip of worker

accounting which doesn't count toward the cap.last thr any worker whose counted against the cap in the last few years. under the returning worker exemption, as a matter of simplr math, if different workers were present in each of these up 298,000 workers could come to the united states under the h2 b program. that's in addition. that's in addition to the 66000 who would be allowed to come under the current count. in reality that number will not be so hi, but it will be significant. some of these workers have been present in multiple years. others have completely absconded from their jobs. others never returned home and would not be eligible to participate in future years. perhaps the number will not reach 198,000, and indeed it won't, but historical evidence shows that if this provisionon went into effect for a full fiscal year, we would likely see

at least a doubling of the numbering of h2 b workers in the country, probably more. in fiscal year 2007, the last seven, the last year that returning worker provision had any effect, the department of state issued a total of 129,000 visas to h2 b workers. in 2006 it was 122,000. notably this returning worker provision found its way into the appropriation bill back in december. the congressional analysis at speaker ryan's requests had predicted that the inclusion of this provision would result in 8000 additional workers this fiscal year. this was in december among other things. as of may 12, they had received

enough petitions for the program to fill all of the 66000 positions under the count this fiscal year and as of may 13, ia had already approved 11000 returning worker petitions with another 1000 pending approval. therefore as of last month, the analysis was already roughly 50o of prediction on the effect of the returning worker provision and when we know more it will probably double the program. , double the prediction. special interest managed to get included in any appropriation bill that comes law for next fiscal year, we will see a further increase.y moreover the simple fact that

66,000 visas does visas does not represent the total number of workers present in the united states at any given time. there were extensions granted to each to be workers already here and there are approximately 115,000 h2 b workers employed at any given time now in the united states. that is before the exception took effect. that will become higher if that provision was to become permanent. we don't need more h2 b workers. we need more americans in the accoforce. according to data that the,

854,000 have absconded since fiscal year 2009. we don't know how many of thesey individuals go home. these people who absconded from the employer at the worksite what we don't know is how many people left the country when their employment ended. we have no entry of that because we don't have entry exit information this country. this program is not saving the national interest, we need to be focused on getting americansrkee back to work, nothing on how many foreign workers we can bring to the united states.

with that i'm pleased that chairman grassley has joined us. it's always a pleasure to have you with us and for your leadership on these issues. i would like to give you time to make a statement. >> i knew i would you would give me time and i appreciate it but i'm in a put my statement in for the record. sometimes our statements take too much time. >> i think they may be coming later, but at this point we don't have them. >> i will start with our witnesses and will introduce you one at a time. mr. michael cunningham is executive director and secretary-treasurer of the texas building and construction trade council. he bought followed his father's

footsteps into the insulation and abscesses workers back in 1972. as an apprentice insulator he has over four decades of experience and has served in a o variety of positions in the dish into his other responsibility he has worked on issues related to work visa since 2006 fighting to end fraud and abuses in thatrk multiple and that guesswork of the program. before i do, let me ask all of you to rise and take this oath. raise your right hand. we please stand and do you affirm that the testimony you are about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so hope you got? please have a seat. mr. cunningham you can start off

>> thank you mr. chairman. thank you for scheduling this hearing and for your opening remarks.st i agree with most everything you said i know there are so many industries but my focus is on the abuse and fraud. not always sure how the h2 b company works and if the companies try to bring in foreign workers.ne our mission is to teach everyone how to protect for the related

work in the jurisdiction and provide them the tools they need the most important task is to check out the company and determine if they really are a construction company.ising wi we have many companies that were advertising with the intent of bringing hb workers in but never finalize the application. they didn't hire any union members but i guess they were able to find enough american workers to do the work the majority of h2 b applications that we come are for welders using their own job family as

welders, gutters, solders and others. this. this creates a problem by classifying all the trades that perform welding as a professional welder with the wage being an issue. pipefitters, ironworkers and others are also specialty work. they have their own code inn their own job family. that includes performing welding. each of these union trades have registered apprenticeship programs that teach welding for the specialized table welding incidental to the trading construction industry. i haven't come across any registered production company that teach welding for construction. we have a number of programs in the gulf coast that have h2 workers working today that were certified as welders. there really is no limit on what type of welding they can perform when they're lumped into one category.

if these companies were assigned the proper construction trait, the the wages would have been greater for the american workers and guestworkers the wages would become included in the right section to be included in the annual wage updates.uc here are some statistics. production welders 2078 an hour. a pipe fitter is $23.5 an hour. and $26.28 an hour. two of those hour. two of those graphs would require how higher wages. they originally applied for production workers and welders. they were classified as pipeh fitter welders with a rate of 23. oh five not $20.70. they're working on the same project for the same contractor.

this is not uncommon. we just had another posted for another 100 workers in this county. certification can be an issue for welders working on construction projects. the certification shouldn't have to have to use, each company should have a welding program and a welding stamp that allow them to take a test to the type of welding being performed. this is also true in the marine industry where there is a large number of welders. they don't have stamps. they are just supplying labor to general contractors will another come structure and companies have a stamp. they are supplying the production welder for their clients basically being a payroll administrator. there are specific requirements and these aren't limited to just

welding as they apply to many other occupations. we don't think these companies can meet the litmus tends of test of temporary need. to they just check the box on the application form. due to all of our concerns, we continue to discover in the construction industry andthe an disturbed that workers have been under age to be for the last three years are not counted against the annual 66000 cap or making work for the american worker. i'm even more concerned that there's an effort to expand. the program is broken and needss major overhaul to protect american worker job opportunities and wages. extending the cap only make things worse if the system isn's fixed. mydo hope the information is helpful. my last statement is i'm a skilled worker just like millions of other skilled

construction workers and it's almost an insult to be considered out low skilled occupation. we think we definitely should not be in the h2 b classification for guestworker programs. thank you. i'm available for any questions. >> pipe welder or automaker is classified as an h2 b. >> we haven't seen any of those but if you look in the occupational category where they describe the skill levels, if you scroll down you'll find it, they also do welding. these are lapping occupations that have been used to create a one-stop shop welder. >> okay, meredith's dirt has represented hundreds of h2 b guestworkers and j1 student workers in hospitality, food,

and landscaping lawsuits and other advocacy regarding violations of federal law unlike regulation. i give my best to him. next time you see him we'd beem glad to hear your statement. >> thank you chairman, ranking member schumer and other distinguished members of the subcommittee to speak to the h2 b guestworker program. the southern poverty law centere has represented tens of thousands guestworkers and lawsuits related to their payit and working conditions. we also published a report in 2013 about h2 guestworker programs in the united states titled close to slavery which is a culmination of interviews with thousands of guestworkers and legal experts. as the report reflects, the guestworkers are systematically exploited because the very

structure of the program places them at the mercy of a single employer for their job andnd continued presence in the united states. they cannot change jobs if they're mistreated. as a result the program is ripe with abuse. the abuse typically starts long before workers have arrived and they are forced to pay enormous sums of money to recruit the job most to seek these jobs have to borrow money to pay the fees. in addition to incurring debt, they are often misled as to the terms of their employment. last year someone ofrd 14 million-dollar jury verdict against their employer and recruiters for human trafficking scheme in exchange for the false promise of green cards. once they arrived in the uniteda

states, they were permitted to only work for the employer tied to their visa. they can't change jobs. if the employment situation is abusive, the workers only lawful recourse because most are ind debt they are forced to remain and work for employers even when they are subjected to shameful abuse. workers routinely receive less pay. these are not violation of the law. they have one nearly $2.5. other workplace abuse places are common. employers often bring in more guestworkers than they need this means they can wait weeks or months in the u.s. with no income before their offer the

hours they were promised. the regulations partially address this problem with the provision that guarantees guestworkers a minimum of three force a days work they wereay promised. unfortunately the department of labor's enforcement of this regulation they hold such power over the workers jobs and visa status. when they stand up for their rights they are almost always subject to some form of retaliation. the abuse suffered by these workers have an impact beyond that expense by the guestworker. they put profound downward pressure on the wages and working condition of u.s. workers. since 2004 they have represented guestworkers in obtaining settlements and of nearly

$60 million. they try to make jobs more appealing to domestic workers by improving conditions. culpepper was certified for each to be workers in 2014 by promising the government it would pay them $11.11 per hour and would recruit u.s. workers first at that same right. once the age to be arrived, they only paid them $7.25 an hour, not $11. they testified in a deposition that the u.s. workers they hired didn't stick around. the u.s. workers who applied for and accepted an 11-dollar per hour job cannot be expected to

stay on when they learned their actual pay is almost $4 per hour last. culpepper's age to be workers on the other hand, whose legal status was tied to their employer did not have the ability to move on to another job. employers also have powerfulst financial reasons to prefer h2 b workers to american workers. during the jury trial last year against them they said theye stood to save $22 million by virtue of its plan to build 500 welder jobs instead of hiring u.s. workers. u.s. recruitment has a serious problem. they need to enforce critical protection for american workers. in some we have a moral obligation to ensure the individuals who come to ourdi country to work are treated with dignity. under the current structure we

are far from meeting the obligation it should not be permitted at all and should not be expanded but should be reformed to adjust the vast disparity in power between guestworkers and their employer. thank you and i welcome your questions. >> next we have the director of immigration law and policy research at the economic policy institute and he is also a business scholar at the university of california. he is an attorney and his current areas of research include a wide range of labor migration issues including management of temporary foreign worker programs, yielded grease from you see berkeley, syracuse and georgetown.ee for a >> thank you chairman sessions, ranking member schumer and other distinguished members of the subcommittee for allowing me to testify. i am dedicated to advancing policies that ensure prosperitye

and fairness in the labor market. i'm especially honored to be before the subcommittee on immigration.ican my parents are the direct beneficiaries of the immigration program and the three of us can never repay the debt to this country for the opportunity thay was presented to us. while i feel it benefits, the immigration system needs many reform. getting the system right to maximize the benefit and reduce the cost. it's an important and located task that lawmakers face and they have no time to waste. when it comes to the foreign worker programs, these are the guest worker non- immigrant programs, they are not functioning as they should. we should not be surprised. workers thater tie them to and are them single employer is a recipe for disaster. around the world i believe there

is local consensus around thethe world that temporary foreign worker programs are in danger worker programs, in other words they are close to slavery. i think they should consider what whether this program should exist at all. they hire primarily jobs in landscaping, restaurants, hospitality, fish processing and construction. the statutory language creating this makes this clear. in other words the program is intended to help fill jobs when they can't find american workers for these jobs. lobbying groups like the u.s. chamber of commerce and others have claimed for years that there was a dire shortage of qualified workers available to fill lesser in unskilled jobs. they lobbied congress to

deregulate and expand the number of guestworkers. employe however, other than employer antidotes, no credible data has been presented to prove the labor shortages in these occupations. in fact the available evidence suggests the opposite. wages have been flat or declining for a decade while unemployment rates in those have been skyhigh. those are not the indicators of national labor shortages. this doesn't mean that no shortages exist anywhere. it's possible they exist in some states or localities. but it suggests that even though employers experiencing shortage might find u.s. workers if they recruited outside their city, region or state and if they offered better pay and benefits.

there should be strong and enforceable rules requiring employers to recruit and hire og available american workers and to pay their guestworkers noso less than the average wage. while some argue that they are already required to hire american workers are paid the prevailing wage, those rules are inadequate and not even enforced at all. when it comes to prevailing wage rules, my own research plus findings all prove that employees find less to ways to pay less. there are finalists credible ways to deal with the survey data. the average certified wage was more than $2.50 less per hour in landscaping than those in the

united states. it's a way to ensure that wages stay low. the use of private wage surveyse should be abolished altogether. in conclusion it's obvious that it's harming migrant and from american workers. i urge them to see the problem for what it is.ca it is not the case of migrants coming to the united states to steal jobs from americans. h2 b workers were recruited and hired by american workers. the low wages are not the result of benign abstract economic forces. they reflect conscious policy choices by lawmakers influenced by lobby groups with user influence to water down that americans should enjoy as a

matter of course. they are not the ones keeping wages down and conditionsem2b horrible, it's their employers. their employers can and should be held to a higher standard but congress has to decide to required of them. thank you. >> thank you. c next we have steven on labor and economy and partner of edgewood economics. he previously led the department of economics and served as a professor of economics at the university of texas. posit he had a faculty position at georgetown university, university of pennsylvania and university of california santa barbara, yale university university and texas a&m.e he has written extensively on labor and employment practices per he received his phd in economics in 1983 from the university of chicago. we are glad to have you here. >> thank you very much chairman sessions. thank you for inviting me to testify about the labor market program.

labor, softened disagree about the impact of immigration but there should be little disagreement about the impact of the h2 b visa program on u.s. workers print this program allows non- agricultural u.s. employers to alleviate some seasonal labor shortages in some geographic areas by hiring foreign-born temporary workers. in my opinion, this program benefits small businesses, workers and consumers in the u.s. and does not harm u.s. workers.l scaling back the h2 b program will have a negative effect on the revenue, the employment and wages of some seasonal industries.ncreas the increase in the number of h2 b workers would benefit those in these industries. guess it entering the program will not affect the wages of american. first they must demonstrate they were unable to hire domesticly

workers to fill these positions. that establishes there are no directly competing u.s. workers. the second, it should be w required to pay a prevailing wage or more in the wages set by the department of labor. the 2015 final rule sets the prevailing wage equal to the main wage in the area ofofrkers. intended employment. in order to protect domestic workers, this wage must always be higher than the wages paid to the majority of workers in the same occupation in area. if employers are also able to find domestic workers to take the same kind of positions as the foreign born workers, the domestic workers must also be paid this prevailing wage. the h2 b program is small and compared to the size of the u.s. labor market. whether we compare the 66000in pieces being issued to the number of workers in the occupations that are most likely be filled by these workers or whether we compare the size of the program to the number of adults in the labor force, with

a high school degree or less, which is the skilled group most likely to be affected by this program, the inflow of h2 b workers to is a fraction of 1%. so even without the other protections, relatively small inflow of workers would have a negligible impact on domestic wages. h2 b workers are also here temporarily. 66,000 visas each year does not accumulate after a decade to become 660,000 because any cheer 60,000 workers arrive and leave later in the year. the program is too small and the guestworkers are not here long enough to have a lasting and measurable impact on the wages and employment opportunities of u.s. workers. so far i told you what the program does not to. then let me tell you what the program can accomplish.d they do not displace but instead fill the position that could peherwise remain vacant. they are better able to increase output during peak seasons.

the supply of temporary workers increases their job security and income opportunities. for examples in landscaping businesses, you want to increase the crews that they can send out in the spring and summer when more lawn work needs to be done in the work needs to be done more frequently. if these businesses are unablepf to find u.s. workers to send out more crews, the h2b program could be helpful. the permanent u.s. employees of the small business, the managerd and supervisors, the mechanics who fix equipment and the bookkeepers and even the full year ground keeping workers have more job security and higher expected income because the landscaping company will be better able to send out workers and expand operations during the month of peak demand. if we deny these visas, it hurts not only the owners of the small business but the employees and

the customers as well. in conclusion, the h2 b visa program provides several several layers of protection for u.s. workers. the prevailing wage in the labor market task with the annual of 66,000 66000 pieces per year somewhat you redundant. it can benefit u.s. workers by helping their employers adjusttu to seasonal inflection. hiring seasonal workers to meet the demand. there are many costume players participating in the h2 b program including transportation cost, hiring of agents and attorneys and the uncertainty of whether the requested h2 b visas will be granted.ag these cost and the fact that the h2 b prevailing wage is almost always higher than the wage paid to the majority of similar workers means that each to be workers are worker supply of last resort for those companies

facing worker shortage. because of the protection in this program, it will not adversely affect u.s. workers even if the annual cap of visas was doubled or tripled. thank you. >> thank you. next we have the director of research for the center for immigration studies. he has done considerable research on all of these issues. testify before congress or than any other nongovernment expert on the economic and physical impact of immigration.he doctor cammarano work has been injured in the new york's time, the washington post, usa today and other publications. he received his masters degree in political science and a doctorate degree from university of virginia and public policy. thank you. >> first i would like to thank this committee and senator

sessions for inviting me to testify. my testimony is not focused on the h2 b program per se. i will focus on the bigger issue needed in the first place. we need a supply of workers to do seasonal nonskilled work and it's inadequate. in my view this argument is ridiculous on its face. all of the data the government collects shows that there is an abundant supply of such workers in the united states. the only piece of evidence that workers are in short supply is testimonial from owners of business looking to import more foreign labor. we can debate what the research shows about the impact of immigration on the wages or theo employment but there is widespread agreement that wages have stagnated and declined for lower skilled and less educated

americans. the vast majority of petitions are from low-wage jobs that require very little education and skill. data from the first half of the year shows that if we look at the petition, tooth two thirds of h2 b job said they didn't require experience and 95% 5% said there was no education requirement. some of the top are landscapers, amusement park attendance, cooks, cooks, movers, production helpers, waiters, waitresses, dishwashers. these are not jobs requiring high skilled that no american or even legal immigrant already here can fill. the majority of these workers in these occupations were born in the united states. the idea that these are jobs americans don't do is absurd. just to give you some examples,t they show thousands who are

landscapers and comprise three force of the application, 51% and maids are us-born in the united states and almost 900,000 of them. two thirds of construction laborers are us-born and there's over 1 million. there's one .8 million cooks in the united 8 million cooks in the united states, and they make up 70%. 7 the overwhelming majority of those doing these jobs are less. educated nativeborn americans. the answer quite simply is terrible. real wages adjusted for inflation for workers for normal or than a high school education are down, ten or 20% since the 1970s. even recent trends show no recovery. if there. if there really was a labor shortage, wages should be rising rapidly while employers drive up wages and build them up in a desperate attempt to retain and attract new workers.

it's the opposite it's generally happening. wages and h2 b occupations show no indication of labor shortage. in most of the occupations between 2007 and 2014 based on data show a decline. there was a 10% decline for food preparation and service workers and forest and conservation workers. these are two of the biggest h2 b categories. it declined 5% for ticket takert in addition to the wage data, the employment data also looks dismal. even people with a high school education, it was only 65%. these represent dramatic inclines from the historical averages. right now there are 30 million

nativeborn americans and immigrants already here who have no education be on high school and they're not working. even if only half of these want to work and can do so, is still represents a huge supply of a potential less educated or unskilled workers. some of the biggest decline have been among the young. this last summer only one third of teenagers work. twenty years ago is more than half. this is is actually very concerning. those who don't work in as they are young often have trouble finding and retaining work throughout the life. they need to obtain the skills to stay in the labor market while they're young. there's no shortage to fill

unskilled jobs. employers may have to pay more and treat workers better and develop new means of recruiting workers if the supply of immigrant workers is reduce. in my view higher wages for the least educated and poorest americans should be seen as a positive thing, not something we try to stop through immigration policy. >> thank you. i appreciate that. i believe in congress it should be our goal to create these offenses that allow wages to keep up with inflation and actually grow faster. that's when you get a healthy economy. i do believe the wage stagnation and decline is the pain american people are feeling today. briefly mr. cunningham, the production welder is considered a job under the h2 b program, the production welder? >> yes sir it is a classification. >> one of your complaint is that

they're hired as production slder but actually taking jobs from automakers and pipe welders at higher category that are not part of the h2 b program? >> yes sir, if you look at those, there have been h2 on those crafts. they're just not including the welding on those graphs. that is a basic format of all the trades that well. if you look at the wage determinations that they use under this act, if you look atat that every trade that's on that list when they make a wage determination, at the very end of the wages there is a statement, welders rates are incidental to the work performed. if there is a federal job they would have to compensate them as one way and then if they were working on another job they would have to turn around and classify them another way. >> thank you, i understand that

you are both familiar with the r analysis the analysis conducted by the congressional budget office on the effects of the returning worker provision in this week's appropriation bill. it predicted that the provision was a result of 8000 additional workers. as of last week it approved petitions for 12000 additional returning worker's category as approved by that law with another 1171 pending approval petitiwould total about 14000. the petitions do not match one

for one with these issues for the number of workers admitted, but given these workers, isn't it true that the numbers will be close? >> absolutely, there's no way it will be from 8000. a they suggest they always get it wrong. it's always higher than anticipated and that's what we've seen. >> with regard to the temporary job, one of the times that has the most peak demand? >> seasonal demand is highest in the summer. >> i do think it's something unusual that college students and graduates aren't working much in the summer. i'm not sure that's a healthy ifing.

the research shows that it's important for you to work as a teenager. it's very hard to learn how to function in the world when you try to learn it when you're 27 rather than when you're 17 like showing up on time and not telling your boss he's an idiot even if he really is. you have to learn these things people who don't work they're young struggle to find jobs and read teen jobs later life. >> you learn things on the job that helps to prepare you. listen, did they underestimate the number of returning workers by september 30, were talkingab

about 14000 now approved during the pipeline, there would be even more between now and september 30, with, with their not? >> it seems so and you have better data in trying to find out how many returning workers are coming. >> as of last month, that was al month ago, in trying to find out how many returning workers are coming. >> as of last month, that was a month ago, so 8000 seems too low but my hunch is the number won't be as high as it could be in part because the exemptionon t doesn't go into effect until after the first quarter of 2016, but the fact of the matter is that employers didn't have time to plan and seek out returning workers. >> so next year if it stayed in effect, employers being able to understand and have an opportunity to use the program, the numbers would be even higher? >> i think the real impact, i impact, i think there would be some impact but i think the real impact would be in 2017 whenen employers have time to seek more

workers and bring them in is returning workers. >> and, just briefly, although we have in effect, a cap of 66000 workers, as a mentioned is my opening statement, we see this as being extended and the numbers totaled 129,000 in 2007 and 122,002,006. this is on the returning worker problem. : r vision is included, would you agree also with mr. costa that numbers would go up? >> there are a lot of people who stay. that is why we grant these exemptions. that is why you end up with a lot more people than just the formal cap.

>> from homeland security analysis that appeared last year , there are already approximately 100 15,000 h-2b workers in the united states at any given time due to extensions provided to workers who did not count against the cap. is that correct? >> >> that's correct there arelessa extensions even though they should be certified for less than a year it could be with of one time occurrence for up to three years. >> thank you for your good attention to these issues and your participation with this committee on a whole host of issues. >> i like this committee particularly the subcommittee because a lot of times it is just to read me.ective,

i come at this from an interesting perspective as the senator from north carolina but sometimes i hear these discussions i feel like to live on the island nation the island of north carolina now want to do get something san with your indulgence but i wasf speaker of the house said in 2011 we did a lot of reformea measures up to read including e-verify but we hiso focused on unemploymentnt reform and in 2011 north carolina had the fourth highest unemployment in the nation at 10 .4% we implemented the unemployment reform over five quarters it went down at 6.4% the most precipitous drop in the neck period time for the national average now is stillemployed ang trending. we have a lot of americaneople o

workers go back to work but i still hear from people from the temporary worker program they have adequate people to fill the jobs. to see where people migrated back.ry it with the opening comment how these temporary jobs could be filled in with as a geographic area and then to increase the wages. and at what point does the cost of using that path with that service and that is something is spent a fair amount of time with and

spent time as a commercialal fisherman. into th they are american-born full in into the estuaries to bring in the shrimp and crab and fish if they cannot find workers at a reasonable price point already with imported shrimp to other fish products so i am notruitinf sure if you say you simply pay more for recruiting or transportation or wages that w you to get more workers but at what point is that anable artificial objective because at that level to get an accurate and reliable supply would make that seafood packer jealous of the commercial fishermen? bus drivers and distributors and the people selling the seafood produce that they

can simply no longer do thatbe d >> first it should be statute required they're not hired unless they are not unemployed. >> we work very closely with our employment security division to make certain from the office of jurisdiction to make sure they're not american workers available for the job. >> so then we go back to the other point if we have a good base for the seafood season that starts may be until they stop moving how do you do that? if you're talking to a business and i am a business owner. >> it seems it would be cheaper to offer californialina.

workers to come and work with north carolina but ifch they did decline would be more expensive for cheaper that is a tossup i would think. >> in the case of north carolina 4435 seafood processors they could never stay in business that is why they are down 45 for 46 so i have no doubt in my mind and they're glad to hear they were back but had he been before the committee before? but you have a stunt double with a very similar philosophy but the problem is with respect to workers conditions if you'd know of a single example of some of

the conditions you are talking about, i want to know about them because we have laws that the state level that is something and want to talk about. i have no doubt there is fraud in this process. i want to track down the fraudulent actors to have them suffer penalties or jail or whatever the penalties may be but if we continue to think in my case in the state of north carolina, that these jobs will be filled then rerouted to an economics problem. to where we simply decide to exit markets and as a result we will impact american workers if we don't get this right. sorry i went over my time. >> well done.

next. mr. bloom and paul. -- ruth leventhal thank you for your active participation.enforcem >> i want to begin with the apparent lack of enforcement the problems have been persistent the evidence is overwhelming. there are couple documents from the labor recruitments working group to the civil rights groups that have submitted a letter and the afl-cio ask that those are included in the record. >> the evidence shows that

they attempted to recruit american workers to activelywa attempt to hire americans settle cost still others commit violations with all of the abuses fly in the w face of what the h-2b program was to help american businesses grow and thrive when there is no america to do that job i wrote a letter m to the obama administration cosigned by seven colleagues to approve the program to help that serve the intended purpose it has been thwarted by the opposition in thethe full senate and those rules have

failed to have the fullta impact as they should so it is a monumental problem of enforcement. because very graphically have powerfully the results in the contact actor or recruiters to charge exorbitant fees those with the low-paying jobs in the united states and then work to pay off their debts andth when they discover their job is not what they promised that it is because of their obligations. >> so are those protections n currently pertained to be strong to pertain this type

of abuse are what can be done to strengthen the measurement? >> and to get a fair labor recruitments measures in the appreciate that but it is very difficult to hold the international recruiter's liable for recruitment and use that tend to send them so deeply in debt once they're here in the unitedexistg states even though they do substantially improve on those projections they don't go far each half we think that congress needs to more carefully and vigorously regulate international recruiter so there is more transparency and recruitment

there needs to be a public registry of recruiters who have to post a bond to be recruiting and they should be held liable for those badealy acts and those are the types of protection is that we need to protect foreign workers who come to the country enter deeply in debt if they were hauled accountable for those tactics as their agents they are still agents that have a significant effect that would place a larger burden

that they're not using fly by night scrupulous from other countries. >> in kiev i'm sorry i missed your testimony 1/2 to read up on that bet i did read some of that and want to say that h-2b those other workers coming down from canada the younger students with the local resorts to rely on the h-2b visa i appreciate the chairman having this hearing we need to have protection in place

and my focus is what wouldld happen if we scale back the h-2b program the effect on local businesses or seasonal industries like in minnesota one of the most popular vacation spots has around 500 employees including 85 that our international. been in that area near the canadian border. >>. >> before you answer that question we have somee testimony about the fact that wages are stagnant and this program is the narrow tailored program but what it can help solve this

minnesota of or michigan horror cape cod resort thatm anh compete all over the place of their trying to bring in for the high a seized -- high seas and workers and enough people are in the town to fill those positionsono. so zero the 66,000 limit is so tiny compared to the size of the u.s. economy will munsey the shortages in the aggregate data into the is of businesses during the peak season cannot ramp up production with hospitality it is like saying to retailer you cannot take fuller advantage of the holiday season.

>> small business owners. >> and in the winter we may not have quite as much. we have sown in the winter with ice fishing and snowmobiles so that is the issue we have this demand at one time. i noted in testimony that take ted workers were labor supply as of last results so what efforts are they required to undertake to hire the domestic workers before they can even petition for the h-2b visa? to rick advertises for thebs position and make an attemptve to try to hire u.s. workers. they can find the u.s. workers they have to pay the prevailing wage so that is

part of the rule than the question but the way the rule was written that is how is to do.asizin >> with the department of homeland security with a rapid and consistent process of the h-2b visa were temporarily halted where those negative consequences in terms of all of that? >>'' we were talking aboututneeo before you leave the workers to be there at a particular point in time. >> before the ice melts. [laughter]

>> so the delays that could have been and the processing that is very costly with those positions when the services are needed during the peak season. >> thank you very much. >> i just what hot dash to want to point that we did have a snowball season before last. >> correct the record. [laughter] >> error number over the years those that would work at resorts spend the summer and have fond memories. midi ladies found there has been that the resort's.f possibn

but is it not many of them over if they were receiving benefits of some form or another. we have the issue of supply those numbers are enorm is historically now it would be great if we could trade them all to be a computer programmers but those kinds of jobs they can do are exactly the kinds of jobs that people are allowed to bring in the foreign workers for. if you ever have any hope back into the labor market anything like they were so with employers they cannot find anyone the next question should always be

how much have you increased lar wages? ten%? twenty%? we do have shortages but the day then shows a large wage increase if there really is i a shortage there should be a wage increase in the absence of that evidence is seems what they want to do is keep the wages down which is perfectly never stand a bold but should the congress be complacent? >> our free market friends need to recognize when wages are not going up you don't have much of a shortage. mr. cunningham based on your experience currently in the construction industry. >> we feel what is advertising a wage they

might apply for the jobs the unemployed union pipefitter and i go into an employment here is a job that is paying a little bit more only to read three weeks here is the production welder makingng several dollars an hour lower than is now i'm used to working for as a pipefitter boulder job theyy may let that the right way and saddam will not take back that is is problem with advertising in wage rates to

provide opportunities for american workers and then the north carolina did a great job is to incentivize people to not beyond benefits that was a helpful trend is that possible that anda most americans would like a permanent job and not a temporary job if it was per minute or six months to retake a permit if the short-term job should pay more if it is a short-term basis.

but is it possible to use the incentive with welfare reform to make thatths incentivize people and that helps them experience a job in the future it is perfectly reasonable to argue but those people using welfare are doing work but they also collect benefits but if you want that agger goal of higher wages the best way to get to that goal that once people start to then that tends to build on itself people like to hire someone that doesn't have

much experience a part-time job can be just that the question is part rarely driven of the increase planned but they will eliminate the program. >> i have a lot of questions for you but the concept of all we have to do is spend more money with this seafood packing and have you seen any research?te

hypothetically to increase rages by 50 percent? s is there any research out there and where it is nott competitive? it depends on how - labor-intensive. >> of major import and raise the prices and have a mucharket. harder time in a world market and that is one of the things of agriculture so that puts real limits on the small businesses they cannot just take the prices in the marketplace. >> if you use that as an example i love carolina if

it is the available i am willing to pay a premium but we all know that you reach a point because people as cannot pay for it to so with certain categories and with every case you can find fraud and abuse are the wages and a consistent ifwe you are willing to kill american jobs we will see? people go lot of business maybe we can get those american jobs back but also

that at least in north carolina and minnesota if we have of program and that is an area we need to look to that does not make sense to me it could be a temporaryry status but those a drive industries are real i was talking to the senator said they had a seven week fishing season who goes to the average of alaska where nobody lives for seven weeks of income? drive to they see any differences for the legitimate factors

drive those points? end in the mountains where it snows a lot but also a therant spring and summer tourism season the prospects of a 12 month job does that make it more likely that that will be filled by american workers with thed popun outer banks indeed some temporary workers and if you were in the seafood industry? >> the above ec they have the seasonal patterns and

are more out of the way places.the issues the difference of the population centers are so you not only have seasons with certain industries but most of his occupation ends. >> if you've ever been to the of her bangs you would s know it is part of north carolina but it takes seven popl hours to drive from the outer banks to charlotte and that is the most populated areas of the state and to

run into those economic is gearg problems.al >> it is the small part of the total of the u.s.and -- economy but it is vital. >> we will live anothern round of questions? that i will hold the line. >> it makes a very good point to think of the global marketplace. in the global comparative marketplace out there. but the american people are worried. inc. tri-star going very well.

and that is a fact but a lot of these businesses likele i see landscaping i watching very closely now. people working and landscaping for the most part the restaurants or construction workers. the is a big part of it that has to be carefully watched tha with those wages that shadow curve.validity but we do need to be cheerful about it and that has some validity to it and that is harder to manage.

errant the people in 2009 with 15,000 are reported but they came in the rent on their own way to leave the dead know those people that the complete their years or months of work? >> those estimates are for 5 million that is the overstay.articular program that we i have never seen an estimate for this particular program that we would expect over time thousands of people will overstay because that is how lax the system

is. >> with an increasing percentage happen million overstayed the visa but with your evaluation to of course, the laws that we have to protect american there any that a feasibility? or garner any suggestion is to maintain for this system?er e >> the department of labor

has attempted of whittiers in those protections in they are joined by those employers or the appropriations measures so to stop making those changes to the program and to employment and in force we think there should be more protection the they're not subject to the views we have seen in this program and weto recommend of better oversight is and to regulate their recruited workers to make sure they're not

subject to the false2b workers s promises and we think there should be better protectionn for the h-2b workers saw and they complain of unfair working conditions that they're not retaliated against with a chilling effect on their right to and also they should have better access by making them eligible and finally it would help overhaul the structure of the program tied to a single employer and as long as that exist the program will lead to exploitation preferable to the employers. >> mr. cunningham and want to come back and square up

talking about miami doing better his mid-30s but one of the things we have to focus on when i was in the legislature was the shortage of trade skills in north carolina we spent a lot of money we have a great community college system weat do a lot of collaboration tothe train people and get them certified. why will i spend money to do that if there is resources available for these jobs? >> thanks with a question. >>. >> it is all about trainingavaia

with the middle-class living are >> in with those tradee reso resources that is a matter of matching them to the job. >> my experience is the need training to have those labor supplies that they need and with that community college system that they say there is a dearth of available people willing to work already a try to square that with north carolina. >> construction is not a permanent job it is up and down you get madoff to get spenn another job. >> i spent many years of my career traveling all over the country because there was no work in our area. i will say the unions have the biggest network of

trained skilled work force ready to go and travel to an area where they need workers if they have the jobs they will go to keep benefitsts going and take care of their families that is what we do as construction workers bevyie we need more investment in training like other modelsould h that have mandatory fishingd neo programs. >> that suggest there is the skills gaps somewhere thatax we would need to make that out of taxpayer dollars toei have a more consistent flow of workers to fill these main jobs. and with full disclosure is not an area of the sea food and hospitality industry but it is from north carolina.

>> it depends on the part of the country of what you need and what we found they have workers in line for these jobs and they have been denied for i am speaking mostly of the construction industry i am not really involved in that the way you have qualified workers to go out as registered agents they don't return your call or lie of the recruiting reports we have people available but that is rarely need more enforcement that these companies out thereon should not be part of a process we have and have people trained to do construction work so we have the had so many other issues were rehab these contractors

if you look at my statement for the record i will give you a lot of issues on jobs.to >> i think even though we may have some differences on the margins but when it comes to any demonstrable areas, we need to tighten up the legislation if necessary. i went out to eastern nort carolina my staff has been out there a couple of times and i wonder why somebody generally speaking with the enrollment papers probably that many pages to hire an american worker for a job. hr person -- that involves that involves you don't have the h.r. person but the manager or the owner in getting it done but if you

have to hire a the visa worker this fact is that thank you have to become anri expert to deal with the consulate and private wage surveys and an expert at the department of labour to do their job if they have a shortage of resources and by any person would prefer to go through this processseason th including the variability in not planning season to season tells me if you just want to hire a temporary worker rebidding have to pay $1 more per hour than they are not saying so people are out there said one american worker i want the hassle of the federal government then seek medical attention thatuse that is to make sense i am of progress and

systematic oriented person i talk to find those badad actors and stop them but to assume we're only talkingwn about h-2b all those others that have their own pluses and minuses and opportunities but on this temporary program i appreciate you spending the amount of time that you have we need to peel back the layers to have a more dated driven with a hands-on rproach. we need day bird's-eye view di the situation with respect to run counter with the regulatory reform their runs counter to your experiences.

many are by regional differences but to getes things in the final to address those legitimate concerns but also i think is a legitimate concern to have an economic impact to put american business out of business and american workers out of work and then to see a stagnation with the relatively small percentage of the population i think the many people have a disproportionate view of thet number of people coming in with this program we have a situation with bill eagles causing pressure on good actors for the h-2b because they are competing illegally that is a major problem but we need to be very methodical how we go about this to recognize you cannot have this program if he will

cancel american jobs they keep mr. chair. >> i don't think we need to increase that is what i i think i will resist thatle steadfastly and i do worry we have 94 million people in tre this country outside the workforce it is true from 2000 through 2014 we had an increase of the population is substantially at what percentage of jobs that were created during that time were legal or illegal? >> roughly speaking between 16 and 65 all job growth led to immigrants between 2000n so u and 2014 even though native was more than the population growth would have thought it

was 60% but it did not turn out that way. >> i think there are some trends out there that our government needs to understand that perhaps we can do better with 84,000 workers at the shipyard the state moved in with their job training program with some advertisements and we met the challenge this company might be disappointed in investmentll they were not readily available they had to be trained with the wages but they came in big numbers and were happy with the work force so i do think that it e does appear to me that businesses are more demanding when space will for melt the door for them

to take the job of that didn't used to be the case but with those good job training programs if we were smart about our money we can get more people ready to take the jobs when they arefinah needed and i respect that if it is financially worth thatle won a european executive told me he thought american people were the most mobile workers in the world a great strength of america if you set up a plant people will come from around the country and they will move some people in europe like to stare they have been raised that is the straight of america sale and up with the situation of 38,000 jobs last month increased when we abt expected 150 and is it based on population growth??

200 m month that need to beloym, created. >> in terms of the l employment rate that is way down from where was historically view would need to a hundred thousand jobs per year to keep at the current level but a hundred thousand immigrants come in each month studio lot of jobs but if you assume that current level of the natural population increase and it is 200,000 jobs per month. o >>, want to ask you aboutially e your point of the trend of younger people not working and filling these jobs i made my first payment to social security when i was 12 years old in 1973 and haven't missed the years since i dulce culturally

with that is an option and i wish it was but if you have any specific suggestions on how we buttress some of thisge work will above to have suggestions for the matter of public policy to see how we create that culture but outside of that, i do have a question on returning workers it is my last question. i promise. me i am pleading ignorance but it seems to me thatth returning workersy they demonstrate the most reliable users of the h-2b program that theyerstanding that come, work, go home, return. is my in the standing they have skills sets andpositions -v reliability tend to make

pretty good positions you have an opinion? >> i just looked at said jobs as $12.40 an hour.we >> if you take a look at every turning worker coming back into business that they are accustomed to they know the lay of the land, they can be supervisors and trainers for those coming in the first time. it just seems to me that these are people who were following the system working on a seasonal basis with the very clear pattern clear connectivity kit is reno you have to work with the consulate to demonstrate that they do go back to their country so sometimes we get in the discussion of returning workers and it seems in some ways they are h the most reliable resources for the program and you can have the final comment.hat if pl

>> right they give is thee smart way to increase the gap because if people are coming back that must've been a good experience for the worker and the employer so in the standard needs to be better enforcement that all of the employers to use this program played by thele are rules your painting with of broad brush with these abuses and a lot of people use the program and according to the rules the way they're written if the workers are coming back in the speed natalie reliable but a two-way experience that was beneficial for both sides. >> data know how you feel that i will not ask another question but follow-up that it seems if they're coming back to go to the same employer than maybe thosework examples are out buyers butt is more likely they had a

better work experience. thanks for your tie mr. chair on this issue andva your leadership really do enjoy this committee. >> banks to your contributions. i know you are familiar but under the obama administration policies of deportation anybody coming into the country that overstates the visa probably will never be deported? are >> interior enforcement thus overstate if they slip across the border as you have had testimony on this before they have almost the zeroth chance of ever being deported. >> secretary clinton said novation be deported unless convicted of the of violent crime.

>> so in a sense that is just a fact to keep in mind as we wrestle with these issues double-a-2 offer into the record the statements received from the trade unions here in addition to a document submitted by mr. cunningham provided to this subcommittee and if nothing else we stande satellit adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations]

>> we're going public gebbie watched by friends and across the country and i would hope as i said before the senate may change that may be becoming more efficient body because of televised proceedings. >> they are being broadcast to the nation for the first time not that we have operated in secret and town now, millions of americans

have set in the galleries and observed in the senate debates during their visits to washington but today they can witness the proceedings in our homes and the floor has been a stage and senators have been acting on that stage the audience is in the gallery and by our actions today we have not fundamentally offer that we justin large the gallery pushout the walls to include all the american people who wish to watch her

. [cheers and applause] >> taking a very much. en for inviting me to speak today

for simple words engraved above the door. equal justice under law. that is supposed to be the basic promise of our legal system. our laws are just and if everyone will be held equally accountable if they break those laws. we haven't always fulfilled those promises but it is the absolute standard that we hold to ourselves even when we fall short. a vital part of that struggle is the fight for a true, professional, impartial judiciary. absolutely. [applause] a place that is governed, not by politics, not by money or power but by those for simple words,

equal justice under will law. [applause] now three years ago, i came there here to deliver a warning about how that promise and i talked bluntly about how we are losing fight over whether our courts will remain a neutral form faithfully interpreting law and dispensing their impartial justice or whether the rich and powerful interests will completely impact the judicial branch. i talked about year after year, for more than 30 years, how they have worked to re-write the law the law and tilt the courts to favor billionaires and giant corporations. we talk about cases that protect giant corporations from liability. cases that made it hard for individuals to get into court. cayson's that gutted long-standing perspective protections for some to remain

protective. secret corporate money in a mad -- to tilt the rest of government in favor of the wealthy. today, i am here to update that warning. what we've seen over the past three years accelerating over the past three months and even the last three weeks is alarming powerful interests are now launching a full-scale assault on the integrity of the fabric federal judiciary and its judges. now this assault has two major elements. first tearing down our centuries old process for appointing judges. second, viciously attacking judicial nominees, potential nominees and even sitting federal judges at the first sign

that they might put the rule of law above devotion to the rich and powerful. now earlier this week i released a comprehensive report on the republican campaign of obstruction against president obama's nominees. it details how senate republicans have delayed or blocked those key nominations throughout the entire obama presidency. the purpose of this obstruction is to try to hold open several positions as long as possible. the purpose is also to hamstring the president's ability to protect consumers and workers and hold large corporations accountable, to promote equality. in other words, to undermine the fundamental principle of equal justice under law.

the centerpiece of that strategy has been a blockade of federal judicial appointment and it is much better than just the united states supreme court. from the day president obama was sworn in, senate republicans have used every procedural touro at their disposal to slow down his nominees. they marched and abused the filibuster in a naked effort to preserve a right wing majority on the d.c. circuit. after capturing the senate in 2015, they just brought judicial confirmation down to a trickle. emergencies multiplied. courts are so starved for help. now the supreme court of the united states sits paralyzed, unable unable to deal with its most challenging cases all because extremist republicans who reject the legitimacy of prevacid and obama are determined to make certain our course advance the agenda only of the wealthy and the powerful.

it is outrageous and it is up to us to fight back. [applause] senate republicans, do your your job. give district court nominees there vote. do your job. give circuit court nominees there vote. [applause] do your job and give merrick garland his vote. [applause] , nominations blockade is just the first part of the assault on the judiciary. there is a second, even uglier line of attack. intimidation. justice demands a judiciary

that's made up of independent lawyers who can provide insight and expertise from every corner of the profession. senate republicans and their big business allies don't like nominees who was resumes reflect insufficient devotion to the interests of the rich and the powerful. so they smear them. defense lawyers, public interest lawyers, plaintiffs lawyers, nominees with these professional experiences are just regularly, their integrity is question. scores of republicans automatically line up to oppose them. senator jeff of alabama has attacked the integrity of several of president obama's nominees. for what? for having some association with the american civil union. apparently being connected to an organization whose principal purpose is to defend rights

guaranteed by the constitution is an automatic disqualification sessions vowed that the nominations process would become, and i got this quote here, a more contentious matter if we keep seeing the acl zone as part of this process. and they meant it. during her confirmation hearing, to be a a district court judge this year, senator sessions just plain insulted them, a former federal public defender and a civil rights lawyer who worked on cases among others of police abuse. so he asked the question, whether or not she could assure the police officers that might be brought before your court that they will get a fair day in court and that your history would not impact your decision-making. i just want you to guess how many times senator sessions has

questioned a fancy corporate defense lawyer asking if they would assure victims of fraud or people poisoned by toxic waste or people injured by shoddy products or employees who were fired illegally because they tried to join a union. would they get a fair day in court? judge venice was rated unanimously well-qualified by the american bar association. yet, she was barely confirmed with nearly three dozen republican senators voting against her. this approach is corrosive to the legal profession. it is corrosive to our court and it is corrosive to the rule of law. it is the responsibility of every lawyer, no matter who their clients are to stand up and fight back. [applause]

the attacks around the current supreme court vacancy have been even uglier. at one point the number two republican in the senate from the state of texas announced that any nominee put forward by president obama would be beaten like a piñata. his right wing billionaire and big business allies remained good on that threat. with rumors, just rumors circulated that a highly respected federal judge might be under consideration the judicial crisis network which is the shadowy right-wing group that is financed with dark many from the billionaire coke brothers started running television ads attacking her for her service to the nation as a federal public

defender. now as you all know, they eventually nominated judge garland and days before he was announced, republican set in their corn hatch called him a fine man whom the president could easily name to fill the vacancy. and then what happened? scores of republican senators refused to even meet with him. the judicial crisis network started again, spending millions of dollars on television ads to demean this man. the right wing lobbying groups that claim to speak for for small businesses but is actually swimming in cash from conservative billionaires announced that it would oppose the nomination because in cases involving federal agencies, the judge rules in their favor 77% of the time.

now that's a punchline room full of lawyers who will appreciate because every lawyer in this room knows that federal law requires judges to defer to most agency action. apparently, it doesn't matter anymore whether or not judge carlin follows the law. what matters is that he doesn't bend the law to suit giant corporations. judge carlin is not a politician. he is a judge with an unimpeachable record of putting the law first. for that sin he faces a nonstop national campaign of slime. he faces historic disrespect from the republicans who control the senate. it is despicable. it must end and we must end it.

[applause] the goal here is pretty straightforward. it's to choke the game. it's working. 86% of president obama's judicial nominees have either worked as a corporate attorney, prosecutor or both. while less than 4% have worked as lawyers and public interest organizations. professional diversity diversity is missing from the federal bench. the justice suffers for it. even disqualifying based on their professional background isn't enough for donald trump. trump tells everyone who will listen that he was a great businessman. let's be honest. he is just a guy who inherited a fortune and kept it rolling along by cheating people when

that's your business model sooner or later later you're going to run into legal trouble. donald trump has run into a lot of legal trouble. yes, trump university. his own former employees refer to as one big fraudulent scheme. now many of trump university victims ended up deep in depth from tens of thousands of dollars in debt and no way to pay it off. trumps employee playbook said, look for people with financial problems. they make good targets. he even encouraged his salesforce to go out after elderly people who are trying to create a little financial security because trump figured they were vulnerable. i taught law for more than 30 years. you ask any lawyer in america and they will tell you their

jobs a lot like fraud. >> i'm just saying. by the way, that is exactly what donald trump is being sued for. he's being sued for fraud and worse. for targeting the most vulnerable people he could find, lying to them, taking all all their money and leaving them in debt. now, some of of these people are fighting back because in america , we have the rule of law. that means no matter how rich you are or how loud you are or how famous you are, if you break the law you can be held accountable even if your name is donald trump. [applause] but trump doesn't think those rules apply to him. so at a political rally two weeks ago, an almost daily since then, the presumptive republican nominee for president of the

united states has savagely attacked the federal judge presiding over his case. he's said we are in front of a very hostile judge he said. frankly he should recuse himself. he has given us ruling after ruling, negative, negative, negative. understand what this is. trump is criticizing judge. all for following the law instead of bending it to suit the financial interest of one wealthy and oh so fragile defendant. now trump also whined that he's being treated unfairly. he thinks the judge mexican and

when he got called out, he doubled down by saying i'm building a wall. it's an inherent conflict of interest. he has personally, personally directed his army of campaign surrogates to step up there on public attacks on the judge. he has even condemned federal judges who are muslim on the discussing theory that trumps own bigotry compromises the judges neutrality. you can't make this stuff up. [applause] now of all judges, he is bound by the federal code of judicial expects not to respond to these attacks. trump is picking on someone who is ethically bound not to defend himself.

exactly what you would expect from a thin skinned racist bully [applause] now the judge can't respond, but we can. we can tell his story. he was born in indiana, not mexico mexico to immigrant parents who worked hard their entire lives and were handed nothing. he went to indiana university for undergrad and then he went there for law school for 13 years, he worked as a federal prosecutor in southern california. he was fighting the mexican drug cartel as a leader of that region, nor enforcement division. he collaborated with top mexican officials to disrupt the culture

of corruption between the mexican government and the most powerful and deadly cocaine smugglers in north america. the effort was pretty impressive. on both sides of the border, money launderers and street gangs and assassins were arrested and prosecuted that came at great cost. witnesses were killed and the judge himself was the target of an assassination plot and he spent the better part of a year living in hiding under the protection of the u.s. marshall. later after his year of service of a prosecutor he was appointed to california state court by a republican governor who calls him an american hero. he was nominated to the federal bench by democratic president and he was confirmed by a voice vote in the senate. this kind of a man, what kind of a man is donald trump. donald trump says, judge should be ashamed of himself.

note donald, you should be ashamed of your self. [applause] ashamed for using the megaphone of a presidential campaign to attack a judges character and integrity simply because you think you have some god-given right to steal people's money and get away with it. you shame yourself and you shame this great country. donald trump said look into the judge because what he is doing is a total disgrace. no, what you you are doing is a total disgrace. disgracing a judge who spent years defending america from the

terrors of murderers and drug traffickers simply because long ago his family came to america from somewhere else. you donald trump are a total disgrace. [applause] the judge is one of countless american patriots who has spent decades quietly serving s country. sometimes at great risk to his own life. donald trump is out loud nasty thin-skinned fraud who has never risked anything for anyone and who serves no one but himself. that is just one of the many reasons he will never be president of the united states.

[applause] but here's the thing, in spite of the shameful attacks, nobody doubts that the judge will continue to preside over the case as a fair and neutral judge the judge is a lawyer with integrity and that's what lower years with integrity do. judge has survived far worse than donald trump. he has survived actual assassination attempts. he will have no trouble surviving donald trump's nasty temper tantrums. when first asked about whether he would condemn trump's comments about judge curiel, senator mitch mcconnell, the senate leader said gee, no. [laughter]

donald trump is certainly a different kind of candidate ha ha ha. [applause] then after days of pressure, mcconnell finally said attacking the judge is stupid and that the trump should get on script. which script is that exactly? and where do you suppose that donald trump got the idea that he could personally attack judges regardless of the law when ever they don't bend to the whims of billionaires and big businesses? trump isn't a different kind of candidate, he is a a mitch mcconnell kind of candidate. >> he is exactly the kind of candidate you would expect from republican party whose script

for several years has been to execute a full assault on the integrity of our course. smearing and intimidating nominees who do not pledge allegiance to the financial interests of the rich and powerful. that's the kind. now trump is also house speaker paul ryan's kind of candidate. paul ryan condemned donald trump's campaign for its attack on judge integrity, great. where's paul ryan's condemnation of the blockade? the intimidation, the smears and the slime against the integrity of qualified judicial nominees and judge garland? where is he? paul ryan and mitch mcconnell want donald trump to appoint the

next generation of judges. they want those judges to tilt the law in favor of big businesses and billionaires like trump. they just want donald trump to be quit being so vulgar and obvious about it. [applause] donald trump chose racism as his weapon but his aim is that clear same as the rest of the republicans. pound the courts into submission for the rich and the powerful. senator mcconnell recently said he's pretty calm about donald trump because what protects this country against big mistakes being made is the structure of the constitution, the institution mitch mcconnell is

100% wrong. our democracy does not sustain itself. our constitution does not sustain itself. the rule of law does not sustain itself. there have always been doubts with money and power who think the rules shouldn't apply to them. those who would change our system of government to serve their own end. they've tried it before and they're trying it again now. all that's required for the rule of law and are independent you just urinary to collapse is for good people to stand by and do nothing. now is not the time to standby. now is the time to stand up. now is the time to say no, not here, not in these united states of america. [applause]

we are not a nation that disqualifies lawyers and judges from public service because of race or religion or gender or because they haven't spent their entire career representing the rich and the powerful. we are the nation of john adams, a lawyer who defended the british soldiers after the boston massacre and then went on to serve as president of the united states. we are the nation of abraham lincoln, a lawyer who defended accused killers and then went on to serve as president of the united states. we are the nation of thurgood marshall, a lawyer who fought for racial equality and then went on to serve in the supreme court of these united states.

we are the nation of ruth bader ginsburg, the lawyer who fought for gender equality and went on to serve the supreme court of the united states. that is who we are. we will not allow a small insecure thin skinned wannabe tyrant or his allies in the senate to destroy the rule of law in the united states of america. we will not.

we are ready for this fight because it is time to fight again. it has been time to fight in every generation for those for simple words that define the promise of our legal system. equal justice under law. that's what were here for. [applause]

>> thank you very much. thank you. thank you. thank you. you may say that i'm delighted to be here with all of you including those of you who are stuck in virginia back there. i don't know how the hell you got the cheap seats, but i tell you, thank you very much. there is only a few things i've learned in all the years that i've been in washington. one i learned for certain, if you want to see your popularity soar, acknowledge and announce you are not running for president. [laughter] it really is amazing what it

does. if i had known this, i would've announced it every year for the last 35 years. [laughter] thank you i have had that one talent that is good or exceeds anyone else will ever have my job and that is that i'm able to identify and find and take and convince people brighter than me to join me and i mean that sincerely. the two people with the finest mind that i have ever met in my life are ron and my son hunter and term of a steel trap mind. i've never met a man or woman any greater then ron and that's been a big advantage from the time he was a kid and i mean a kid.