we've seen carly fee arena and another light running for president, you kind of put her away in that race. >> well one would of thought, but the moment she got caught on air talking about your hair and your. >> reporter: reaction, we are kinda back to the beginning of your run because people are dealing with these issues that men wouldn't have to deal with. >> glad you brought it up simply because it's another amazing lesson to people watching that no matter what field they're in, i don't care if there raising a family or what, things happen. i was running in 2010. she was considered a top-tier. she she was a top-tier candidate. she had millions that she had gotten she had millions of dollars should throw into the race which she did in the race was neck and neck because we were in the deepest recession

and we were trying to help with the stimulus bill. i remember standing on the floor, just looking at us losing tens of thousands of jobs a month and we wound up losing 8 million jobs. california was a mass. the real estate situation hit us. we were struggling. families were distraught and i'm running for reelection in fee arena is blaming everything on me, even when it rains and she's blaming everything on me and it's tight.

>> he says he's have you seen her hair and he said it is so yesterday. and she starts laughing. now the truth is about my hair, i have many bad hair days, but i thought that moment, everybody does. what is she doing? it's kind of an insult to everybody except if you are wealthy enough to have and are followed around every day and most of us do not. >> she got into trouble with that and i think in the end, people said we are in a hard time and i think they understood with you there, including up

against the iraq war there are so many times that you were alone or maybe had a few people that you are willing to take those brave stance. what i love about about the art of the touch is it talks about through the low lands of history also that people even when they didn't agree with you understood that you are going to be tough and stood up for them. >> and it has been a remarkable thing. but again, some of these things that happen that shine a light on who the person is, and i'm going to go off or minute minute and just say that when donald trump for example said that he was excited when the housing market crashed because he thought he could make a lot of money. how do you make america great when in your business life that is how your mind works west mark i know lot of business people, they may say i will buy

something, but they do not think that way. that they're that they're going to profit off of somebody's misery. so now that i put in that word, truly there are things that happen in a campaign that show who the person really is inside and one thing may not be enough to teach it but there are a few things. so when people saw her making fun of me and not really caring about the issues when the cameras were off and they put it together with the fact that when she was ceo sheet shipped jobs overseas, they said no what, not a good person. >> with a minute left here and we look at the incredible career you have had in your written this book "the art of tough" and people understand that you can pass it on to others, what you really want to pass on? the people who are running for that supervisor seat in the county?

>> what i want to pass on to you and i think i have already passed it on is how to stand up and be tough and know that you can win and don't worry about the slings and arrows. it doesn't matter. when i open the book i have quotes from the right wing media that say it's the worst thing about you that you can imagine. so that's what i want to say to everybody. is be empowered, stand up for what you believe in, and it will be a satisfying life. >> thank you so much barbara. i recommend your book, "the art of tough" because i think it is meant to be fun to read and people will understand where you came from and it is going to give them a faith in politics. >> i hope so. thank you in. >> c-span, created by america's cable television companies and brought to you as a public public service by your cable or satellite provider. >> you are watching book tv on

c-span two. one one of the things we like to do a book tv is look at different aspects of the publishing world and one of those aspects is the author's guild. mary is the executive director of that group, what is the author's guild? >> the authors guild is an organization that goes back to 1912. it was formed to represent authors and represent their interests. authors life, copyright, free speech, and we have been doing the same thing for over 100 years. we represent their interest to publishers and we just had a panel on our contract and we are looking at the standard trade publishing agreement and asked the question about whether the terms are fair they're still still there today in the digital world? we have about 9000 members, we

provide services for our members. we do contract reviews, legal services for authors and we also have agents for members. we provide website services, we help others build their website, we can't do that without a website. we have some websites have very low costs. and we spent a lot of time also on advocacy for authors. we're the only group in the u.s. that represents all authors and what were trying to do is make sure that authors can make a living today and it is getting harder and harder. so we did a survey of our members about one year ago where he found that as we expected some anecdotal evidence that authors are making money and our

surveys asked the mean income was down over 30% from a mean annual income of $24000. we are talking about low wages for book authors who tend to be very highly educated. it is getting to the point where it's becoming unsustainable to become a book author. so so a lot of what we're focusing on right now actually is very much ensuring that authors can make a living wage. >> host: before we get into some of those issues, 9000 members, with jane's patterson and david mccullough be a member of the authors go? >> guest: we have quite a number of well-known author who are members of the authors note. we also have, we have all kinds of authors.

to be a member you have to be and have a published book or you have to have certain levels of income. and we have a certain certain membership or income levels are lower, and so they were self published authors who now it was an opportunity for publishers to also publish themselves are very small publishers, some like to call themselves independently public. >> host: how did you get into this work? >> guest: i have been a copyright lawyer for about 25 years. i have who worked at copyright offices, the library of congress, i am a lawyer by training, i spend a lot of time advocating for authors rights

and is a lawyer in a private practice i represent a number of authors and other states as well as publishers. i have been very much a part of this world and also i was an author, my husband is an author, my stepdaughter is another. many of my dear friends are authors. so i'm very empathetic to authors. >> host: over the years and particularly with the electronic aspect has contracts for authors change? >> guest: that's a good question cause part of our fair contract initiative is that they have not changed enough. things are really shaking up in the industry. we would expect to see more types of models of the publishing agreements. you would expect and other digital media the deals are sort of up for grabs.

there is more diversity. so part of our fair contract initiative is that we want to take a step back and have publishers do the same and say what still make sense today. then in this environment and do it in a way that ensures that authors are real partners to the publishing agreement. there has been recent changes in publishing agreements and they have largely favored publishers to the detriment of authors. for instance, things like advances to be paid out into transactions. then it went to three, but still most of the advance came before the book was completed or before it was published. now authors are having to wait until after the book is finished and even after it's published to to see a big chunk of their

advanced and the authors are going down. used to be the advanced is what you lived off of and use it for research and travel while you are writing the book, now are seen authors who are taking on other work to write a book which makes it harder to write the book that you want to write, or they are having to take credit and so that's what we like to see change. but if we go back to advances, there are other things like option clauses then got much more stringent so where an author wants complete discretion, we say and they deliver the book that was promised you need to accept it. so, these are sort of issues around the edges that were

talking to publishers about right now. >> a couple of recent court cases if you could go through, amazon, apple, google, where is the authors guild? >> guest: that is a broad question. that may start with where we are with the electronic distribution. we are neutral as to how books are published and in what format we want books want books to be written, read and soul. so therefore matt -- format, but that digital media has caused some friction and how authors get paid. how books to pay for. this is a huge issue for us right now because wire others

making less money now, one of them is we see that amazon pushed down the price of e-books to $9.99 cents, they created a standard and in many cases many lower. that is had the effect of causing and devaluing books. now consumers expect that 9099 cents expect that $9.99 is a threshold for what you're going to spend on a book. that means there's less money for the publisher and guess where, the one budget line where they can actually is somewhat negotiable is what they pay the author. so the author ends up losing out. there are also, there the whole information that is something is online it should be for free. and we're starting starting to see this impact books. one impact is piracy, in recent years there is an increasing

amount of books available for free or low-cost that are actually made available by real criminals copyright infringements. people were trying to make money off of your book through advertising or charging $2.99 instead of $9.99. so that cause disruption and there's a sense of devaluation and now anybody can do it so i should we be paying for. there is a real difference between what i or you, i don't don't know of your book right or not, the person who even spent a lot of their time writing in their job as do, it's real different from what i will write converter professional book author. those that we want and web and honing their skill their whole

life they can be extremely good with words and we want to encourage them and allow them to be able to make a living writing books. the the reason why is because the benefit of society. >> host: but the court cases. >> guest: you're referring to google books, so that comes from the information free movement. this is going back over ten years, google what to major academic library's and scan the books, they never bought a never but a single copy of the book, not one. they just went in and scanned them and exchange the library will give you a free digital copy of that. then they use these books to help them for research purposes to help improve their algorithms and to basically teach their computers natural language. they have a huge database of language now.

so the authors use the content to figure out how to improve their business and make more money. so they make copies for themselves and for the, they made many many copies and trying to use these books to improve their search and then they created google books for any book that they scan a searchable and then they can find the book and you can put in a search term, let's let's say you want to research hummingbirds. you put in hummingbirds and all the books about hummingbirds come up and he gets a particular book and it will bring up all the places in the book that term appears with the text surrounding it. so actually we bought the case on behalf of authors who owned the rights to their books. publishers also separately settle. our case only involve books that

the authors own. the fact of the matter is that people will go through the book is not actually buy the book and just at dinner the other night my daughter was in college said, i hate to tell you this but actually we don't sit around i just dumped to the book and type in a search term and i can get what i need. enough to add a citation. and that we heard from many of our authors who use google books that way. but the bigger issue with the google books case and i'm so sad the court didn't take the case because it sets a very bad precedence that everything that google did, every copy copy they made his fair use because of the service they provide google book which is such a wonderful service that we want

them to be able to provided so work in a call this. i think the court was convinced that it would be too hard for people to try to get the rights from authors which is untrue because actually there was a settlement agreement earlier where google has agreed to pay the rights which a settlement was not approved by the district court. so that's why the litigation continued and when the case was but nobody thought that was fair use. they said yes, yes, it's fair use. the problem is that ashe moved further into the digital age and we are just at the beginning of the changes that were going to see and distribution, the way with the books is more more through search, more more of an exit basis and we want to protect those sources of revenue in the future for authors and

for publishers. otherwise were to see less money in the book business which means less ability to pay authors and less books to sell and we will see fewer professional others, fewer the kinds of books that take a while to write. the highly research research books. that's not a good thing for us for the country. >> host: you reference this, but there is a whole generation growing up thinking everything is free. music,books, the music world seems to have settled a little bit, where is this going to end up with the book world? >> guest: we are really trying to prevent this to the music industry happening to the book industry. the music i think the music

industry is 25% of what it was ten years ago, they, they really lost their shirt because the idea that music should be free, now we see services was spotted by where you pay a monthly fee of the music business is getting back back on its feet. is is still much smaller than it was in the past. so we have been able to learn from that. so we are trying to prevent that same mindset from entering the public spirit. and we do have less of a problem but by and large a book by her readers are not teenagers looking for things for free, they tend to be more more mature type citizens, however it is starting to happen that it so a

context that their free online that people are in fact finding them and reading them. in fact one of our authors told me recently that she's a scholar but also writes for a novel and her fans will come up to her and said i read your book for free, sorry about that but i can't afford them. so you're seeing that start to happen. one of the things that we want to do over the next year's start a campaign that is directed toward the public which is writing is work. writers need to be paid for their work. and readers, we know know you love the authors support them, because then you make it impossible for them to make a living. >> host: you reference that were on the cutting edge of how books will be distributed in the future, what are some of the

changes that we will see? >> guest: i think we'll see more reading online and i am thinking very long-term. i think it would go back to in the printing press was first invented, it was 100 years before the publishing industry really became the publishing industry today. initially they were doing books that were eliminating manuscripts. so were very much at the paradigm of physical books. people will will always love physical books, but there'll be more more reading done online, so what i'm talking about is the way people read, the, the distribution of the way they find books. i don't know exactly what that will be. i just know with how much things change in last years that we are going to see a lot more change. >> host: currently does the authors guild have any court cases in some states that they are pursuing? >> guest: currently know. we do not have any court cases right

now. >> host: to have plans to pursue any? >> guest: no, not currently. if we are in this fermenting state i don't think i could talk about it anyway. but right now we have just finished the google books case because the supreme court did not take it and so were taking a deep breath and we have a lot of other advocacy programs that were working on right now, one thing we're launching is a campaign to get your life back in how people and authors learn to exploit their books themselves, how to publish them, how to sell them to publishers, were concerned about elder writers. just remember authors get no pension, no retirements, no benefits even. so they often live, and even you be surprised very famous writers who are now elderly, they never

made a lot of money, they never never made that kind of money you think they did and they are not doing well now. so there's that group that we feel like we have to help them find new sources of income. we also have a new membership for student writers and emerging writers to help them understand the business, get into the business, understand how to become a professional writer, and then we continue to have all sorts of issues that were helping professional writers with. we continue to educate them about the changes that are going on right now because if you been in the business for 20 or 30 years, ask for the same for long time and all of a sudden you're having to learn new ways of marketing, now they all have to do some kind of social platform.

where helping them negotiate that some of course we do a lot of advocacy right now and we are very focused on copyright law in washington. the judiciary committee of the house has been looking at doing a big revision of the copyright law for several years now and there are number of issues that we think will be particularly important authors. we are working very actively in washington right now. >> host: has the consolidation in the publishing industry affected what you do? >> guest: it hasn't directly affected the authors guild. what it has done is for the big publishers, they are owned by major international corporations now that has put more pressure on them to make a profit.

that has turned to the authors to some extent. they're looking for looking for books that are going to make big money, they are less willing to provide living wage to the middle author which 95% of all others. so authors do see it in terms of that. >> host: mary, an author who sells books or someone buys an office book the cost $20, how does that $20 breakdown? can you walk us through a general breakdown of that? >> guest: probably not without figures in front of me but there is a certain amount that goes, or talk about her copybook. so about $3 goes to manufacturing and marketing costs. then the wholesaler takes i

forget i forget what% but a big cut. the author for hardcopy somewhere between ten and 15% normally of the retail list price which is not necessarily the price the book is sold at. and then the publisher gets the profit on top of that. e-books is different, the author gets 25% generally. and we learn today in our panels sometimes that's negotiable and you can get a higher percentage of you don't take in advance. but they're getting 5% of net profits after cost. >> the 9009 cents on 99 cents on e but they're not getting 25% of that. >> guest: know they're getting profits to the publisher after amazon or whoever has taken

their 30% or 35% cut. and the publisher. >> host: how many different models are out there? you talked about business models. >> guest: amid west author is in author that is not a bestseller. so it's most authors. >> host: so how many different models are there out there right now for that breakdown that you just walked us through? >> guest: okay so there's traditional publishing which is what i just spoke about. which is today most trade books go through traditional publishing. there are also ways to self publish, their new services coming up like -- that will provide e-books and print copies of books where you can as an

author contract directly with them now if you want to self publish. take amazon, they are can kendall direct publishing. you basically use there, they have have a format that you put your text into and you put the book up and you sigh an agreement and he cannot negotiated at all. you just click and accept type arrangement and you have to accept whatever terms amazon gives you. but they will put your book up, if you give them exclusive rights they give you 70% of what they get. but they are doing nothing other than putting your book up. you also have to agree to price your book between $2.99 and $7.99 cents. so if. so if you want to sell another