>> c-span, created by america's cable television companies and brought to you as a public service by your cable or satellite provider. >> host: and chris shelton is president of the communications workers of america union, and he is our guest this week on "the communicators." mr. shelton, welcome to c-span. we appreciate your coming over. give us a snapshot of the cwa, if you would. >> guest: we have approximately 700,000 members not only in telecommunications as most people think, but in just about every walk of life, every job you could possibly think of. we have reporters, we have nurses, we have even some rocket scientists in new jersey. [laughter] we have printers, we have manufacturing folks. you name it, we have 'em. public workers.

so so we're not the old cwa that people think about where it was just telephone employees. >> host: how is it that you can represent those other people under the umbrella of cwa? >> guest: well, we've merged a lot of other unions. for instance, the last one we merged was the flight attendants' union. and we've represented these folks, for instance, the printers came in to cwa in 1987, and we've been merging other unions since then. >> host: what are some of the telecommunications companies where your workers are represented? >> guest: at&t, frontier, verizon, t-mobile, you name it. >> host: well, speaking of verizon, just a 45-day strike just recently ended. what came out of that? first of all, what was the strike about? >> guest: the strike, from our point of view, was about one thing and one thing only, jobs. and job security.

and i think for verizon it was about a lot of things. we managed to come out of it with what we wanted, and i think we did very well. i think verizon also did okay, you know? we're not a union that thinks you should go out to kill an employer, you should go out to try and keep an employer successful if you can while you represent your members properly which is what we did at verizon. we came out with lots of jobs that we didn't have before. we got lots of work back from overseas and from non-union contractors in the united states which was our goal going in. >> host: well, joining our conversation today is david shepardson who is a reporter with thomson reuters. >> so you guys went on strike after eight months of negotiations. what prompted the strike? was it just that you weren't making the progress you wanted

at the bargaining table, or was it that verizon was dug in on some of the issues? >> guest: actually, it was about ten months of negotiation, and we went on strike because we had no other choice. the company was in the exact same place ten months after they started from where they were on day one. and where that was was they wanted every single thing that we have been able to gain over the years. they wanted it back, and we weren't going to give it to them. so particularly our jobs and our job security. >> did you get what you needed on job security? one of the things verizon says they have some more flexibility in terms of how calls are routed to call centers. >> guest: we actually agreed with that and thought that it was a good idea because we maintained all the jobs in the call centers. matter of fact, the jobs in the mid-atlantic, the call centers in the mid-atlantic region, verizon was threatening to close -- i'm trying to remember -- about 14 call centers in the mid-atlantic

region, and we were able to save every one of those 14 call center ors in the mid-atlantic region. and we thought that having calls answered by whoever was available whenever they were available as long as we could make their jobs secure, we thought that was a great idea, and we thought it was great for our customers. and, you know, we were not all about, only all about our jobs, but we wanted to make sure that vise aren's customers were -- verizon's customers were taken care of also, and we believe that help take care of customers. >> in terms of benefits, you got a higher pay raise. verizon had proposed, i think, nearly 11% versus 6.5% over contract, and you were able to push back against pension cuts, but you did have to accept some health care concessions which some reports have put at hundreds of millions of dollars over the next four years. is that right? >> guest: we did make health care concessions that were worth hundreds of millions of dollars,

but we had been willing to do that since sometime in january. and that didn't seem to get the company's -- we think that the company here was not about money necessarily. they were about trying to crush the union. and when you offer them cuts like we were offering them and they just ignore it, you know, you can only come to that conclusion that it's not about money, it's about ideology. and that's what we think verizon was after. and if that's what they were after, then they did pretty badly, because they did not win. >> host: well, chris shelton, as you well know, verizon put several full-page ads in newspapers during this strike saying that, hey, these workers are already making nearly six figures. >> guest: that -- well, we are doing pretty well, and we never said that this thing was about money, because it wasn't about money. it was absolutely about jobs. no matter what you're making, if

you don't have a job, it doesn't matter. and we knew that going in, and we knew that coming out. and we succeeded in getting what we needed which was jobs and job security. verizon has taken back work from overseas and contractors that's going to add up to about 1500 people on the east coast which they only exist on the east coast now. but it's going to be about 1500 new jobs for us. >> host: you and labor secretary tom perez and lowell mcadams did much of the negotiating, the three of you. what was that like? give us a sense. >> guest: well, i've known lowell mcadam for a while, and we've done some negotiating together, but i have to say that secretary perez was fantastic in this. we also had the president of the ibw, lonnie stephenson, involved in that group. and, you know, i don't think that we could have gotten there without secretary perez. i think he did an outstanding, outstanding job and just keeping

everybody at the table and not walking away and making sure that, you know, everybody's points got across to the other side. i think he did a fantastic job. >> host: well, you said you'd known lowell mcadam for a while. what's your relationship like? he's, of course, the head of verizon. >> guest: we're trying to improve the overall relationship between the union and the company going forward now because i think that lowell would tell you that he discovered that the relationship was worse than he even thought it was. you know, the relationship with me and him has always been cordial, but, you know, that's not the day-to-day relationship between the union and the company. but i think that they're truly going to try to improve that relationship now because they realize that, you know, a happy work force is a good work force. >> how successful do you think verizon was in training managers

to try to do work of union employees during the strike? and how much do you think this hurt verizon in terms of fios installations and how -- >> guest: i think they did as best the job as they could have. i think that it was nigh to impossible to do what they were trying to do because most of the management, especially low-level management that used to come up through the ranks in the company doesn't now. and they had people who don't know anything about the job trying to train them in a pretty technical job. quite honestly, they did a pretty pitiful job. >> why do you think you guys were successful getting a contract? as you know, the climate of organized labor's become much harder. you know, management in many sectors has taken a much tougher line. was it the support of presidential candidates or other people? why do you think verizon ultimately agreed to the deal after six weeks? >> guest: because i think that verizon knew that we were hurting them. we were hurting them with the

public. they had hurt themselves with the public. they had done things that were, you know, just anti-consumer, and the public knew it. i think that the presidential candidates, obviously, helped us. you know, i don't know how much they helped us, but they helped us. and lowell mcadam going to war with berniebernie sanders probably didn't help him a whole lot. i mean lowell, not bernie. you know, i think we kind of had the perfect storm here. they got hurt, verizon, very quickly after we went on strike, and their cfo was out telling people that they were going to lose money in the second quarter because of the strike. and, you know, i think just everything came together, and we got a lot of public support because as you know and as everybody knows, the public is now into understanding that corporations in this country are making too much money while

regular people are not doing to well. and i think that resonated with the public. >> one part of this contract is for the first time about 65 workers and half a dozen or so verizon wireless stores are going to be under a union contract. do you -- what are the benefits that those workers are going to get from being under that contract, and does that pave the way, do you think, for other verizon wireless stores joining unions? >> guest: by -- i think that, well, the benefits they're going to get, obviously, it was the first contract, so it's not the best contract ever written, but it does give them a voice on the job. it gives them the ability to bargain. out gives them a pay raise that they wouldn't have normally gotten. it kind of changes the way they're paid. it gives them a grievance and arbitration procedure. it puts a just cause standard in any discipline that they might have which is somewhat unheard of in verizon wireless. and, you know, so we have about

a bunch of stores in brooklyn, new york, and one in everett, massachusetts. will it give us the ability to organize other stores and other people at vise aren wireless? -- verizon wireless? the company, i think, was very cognizant of that fact and tried not to give us the opportunity to do that, but i think that, yes, it will. >> host: mr. shelton, my understanding is that this strike was with -- they were landline workers. >> guest: right. >> host: who were striking. as fewer and fewer people get or use landlines, does that -- how is their job security going to be affected? >> guest: first of all, it wasn't only landline work workers, it was also verizon wireless workers, the ones that we represent are, which are about 90 technicians in and around new york city and the stores that i just mentioned. but, you know, what most people

don't realize, you might, or is that without a landline network, the wireless network is useless. it doesn't happen. so, you know, we want them to succeed in the wireless world. we also want us to succeed in the wireless world if it's possible. but without the landline division or part of the company, wireless can't succeed. and, you know, that's part of the reason why we want to continue the fios buildout in lots of places. we finally' that they're going to do it -- finally see that they're going to do it in boston which they only announced a couple of weeks ago which we've been after them to do for a few weeks now because we think that the fiber is the only way they're going to be able to improve their wireless network into 5g, which is what they want. be i think they now realize that also. hopefully, boston will be the first peg in a lot of pegs. and baltimore and buffalo and lots of other places, and i've

used all the b words now. [laughter] will make it into the fios network. we'll see. >> host: so how has overall technology changed what cwa members do? how has it affected your union? >> guest: we've dealt with, you know, i've been around this union for quite a long time. you know, we've always dealt with technology. you know, some other unions decided that they were going to fight technology. we decided probably 50 years ago that it didn't make any sense to fight technology, that you could not win if you fought technology. we decided probably 50 years ago that we should embrace technology, and we should entreaty all the companies that we work for to train us in the new technology which is what we've done in every telecommunications company that we represent. we have training programs that just keep with the ongoing

technology changes, our members learn the new technology as quick as it can come out. and we've been very successful doing that. >> host: 1968, what was that first job you had with new york telephone? [laughter] >> guest: i was a repairman in new york city. >> host: were you a member of the union? >> guest: i was. first day on the job. >> host: and how dud you grow your position -- did you you your position throughout the years? >> guest: i was -- there's a shirt in my office. i got elected, actually, president of union june 8th of last year, so today's my anniversary as the president of -- someone sent me a t-shirt in the office, and it says cwa on top, and then it has chris shelton, shop steward crossed out, chief steward crossed out, chris shelton, local officer crossed out, and it goes on through the offices. so i've come up through the ranks of the union from a local to the national union and held every job that there is to hold in the national union, and now i'm the president.

>> host: so when did your work, your actual work like with new york telephone, etc., end as a repairman when your union duties took over? >> guest: sometime in the late '70s, i guess. >> host: david shepardson. >> in terms of wireline business, what is the future, do you think, for the business? some analysts suggest that verizon could try to sell off the wireline business. does this contract make that work more stable or less likely that verizon would try to sell the wireline business? >> guest: i don't know that it does either, but -- and i don't really know that verizon really does want to sell off their wireline business because if they do, they have no basis for their wireless bay is -- wireless business. so they'd have to be renting all kinds of technology and structure from another company that they sold to. i don't know that it makes sense. at least in what they have left.

now, as you know, they've sold properties all over the country, and the only thing they have left is the eastern seaboard. but they themselves think that the eastern seaboard is a very lucrative market, and i think that they would want to keep it. besides, i don't know who has enough money to buy what they have to sell if they wanted to sell it. >> obviously, verizon's offering these bundles to try to convince people to get a landline and cable/internet, is that the way you convince people to keep their landlines, or are people just going to keep moving towards cell phones? >> guest: you know, i think that landline in the voice world may at some point go away, but you need it for broadband, and, you know, people more and more and more want to have broadband capability, and, you know, all over the united states. it's a big fight. you know, the fcc is backing up giving companies money to build out broadband in rural communities. and, you know, my members do broadband, and, you know, that's

a big, big part of what we do. i think it's going to become an even bigger part of what we do. >> host: chris shelton, if you would, comment -- and david referred to this a little bit earlier, but comment on the state of unions in america today. what's your thought? >> guest: well, obviously, as everybody knows unions are not growing, they're shrinking. and, you know, we're down to about 6% in the private sector. and, you know, i think that this fight that we just had with verizon kind of can be a rallying cry for unions because, you know, we aren't going out after what people or what companies try to tell people unions are always after. they're always after more money, they want more money, they want more money. we are out after saving middle class jobs and communities. because in every instance where a company -- i don't care what kind of company it is whether it's nabisco, verizon or whoever

it is -- moves jobs overseas or to mexico or to non-union contractors, they not only destroy those folks' jobs, but they destroy a community. the tax bases in local communities are dependent on people having jobs in those local communities. and that's precisely what we wanted to do here and what we absolutely accomplished. >> host: well, as the campaign primary season winds down and you've endorsed bernie sanders, but your message here which you just said sounds a little bit like donald trump. >> guest: well, maybe donald trump's message sounds like mine. [laughter] you know? i didn't want to get into politics, but if i have to, i will. you know, donald trump kind of is pushing that he's the working class candidate. well, it's kind of hard for me to understand how a guy who's a billionaire is the working class candidate.

and also he's adopted all these principles just recently. you know, he's against trade, but he makes ties in mexico and the philippines, wherever else, china. you know, donald trump's message is probably a lot like mine, but i don't know if donald trump believes that message. >> host: so if bernie sanders leaves the campaign trail, where do you go? >> guest: the only place we can go, himself. >> -- hillary clinton. >> do you think your members will enthusiastically support her and though a lot of your members have been strongly in favor of bernie sanders? >> guest: i think if the choice is hillary clinton and donald trump, there's no choice for my members. it's hillary clinton. >> host: but what about the tpp which you have come out against as well? >> guest: so has she. >> host: is that a recent position, or is that a long-held position? >> guest: it's more recent than

bernie's, but it's not really recent, about six months ago, i guess, she came out against the tpp. after the actual language of the tpp came out, she said she studied it, and she didn't agree with it. >> host: in your particular case when it comes to the communication workers of america, do call centers, is that one of the outsourcing things that hurt your workers, in your view? when they, when they have call centers in the philippines or india or wherever? >> guest: absolutely. we, during the strike, we got a call from some call center workers in the philippines. so we went some strikers and one of my employees over to the philippines to find out what was going on. and we found out that verizon was sending a lot more work to the philippines than we even knew that they were. and, you know, companies do this all the time. for instance, we a few years ago

got a deal with at&t to bring back all that work into the united states. we now have a deal with verizon that no more, and we're getting some of it back, and we're getting a lot of the contracted work in the united states back. but call centers is the place where all of these companies decide that they can ship american jobs overseas. and verizon, in spite of their big ads in the newspaper saying american jobs for american heroes, they were sending some american jobs over to philippine heroes someplace. you know? we exposed them, and they accused me of sending our strikers on a paid vacation by the union. people sticking automatic weapons in your face, i don't think, is a paid vacation. it's not my version of a -- >> host: what do you mean automatic weapons? >> guest: he went over to the philippines. the guy who's employed by me tried to go into a verizon management building and was asked to leaf, which he did -- to leave, which he did.

and got in a van which was outside with three of the strikers in it. and the van took off on the public street, and the verizon security force followed the van with people with automatic weapons from verizon security, stopped the van, held them until a philippine s.w.a.t. team could show up who they demanded to awe rest our strikers, which they did -- i don't know if they arrested them, but they took them into custody. held them for about 15 minutes and told verizon they were crazy and let our people go because we weren't doing anything that broke the law or even came close to breaking the law. we were asking for a meeting with some management people at vise aren. so -- verizon. so, you know, that's when they accused me of sending these people on a vacation. >> how motivated do you think organized labor's going to be to get out of the polls this year? two terms of democratic president is always hard to retain what what would be a third term for the democrats.

>> guest: well, i think it's incumbent upon, and i hate the words this is the most important election you've ever seen, but this might be the most important election we've ever seen because i think if trump gets elected not only is labor in trouble, this country's in trouble, and i think that labor has to get out and make sure that trump doesn't become the president of the united states. >> democrats were unsuccessful in getting the employee free choice act approved after they had, you know, 60 votes in the senate which was a big priority of organized labor. what would you like to see if the democrats retain the white house and regain at least partial control of congress? >> guest: well, i'm going to speak to the dnc platform committee tomorrow. one of the things i'm going to bring up is exactly that, employee free choice. we're not done with it and, you know, we've proven at at&t we just organized almost 8,000 directv employees that at&t bought because we have a

contract neutrality agreement with at&t that they actually honor which is pretty unbelievable in this country. most companies even they have one don't honor them. and, you know, we've proven that people want to join a union if you just take the fear and the harassment out from management, and they will join unions. and we've had this agreement with at&t for a number be of years. we've organized 55,000 people at at&t wireless because of the contract neutrality agreement, and we think that it would work for the rest of the country. you know, we've done poll and other people have done polls, and most poem say they would join a -- most people say they would join a union if they could, but they can't because of what goes on in this country. people getting fired, harassed, you name it. >> and then you mentioned some of the outsourcing that's taken place, companies moving jobs to mexico or china. do you feel like the climate's changing? any sense that businesses will

reconsider this huge outpouring of manufacturing? there's been the loss of millions of jobs in the u.s. >> guest: you know, i think that the political climate in this country, i don't know if it's because of bernie sanders or trump or who, but i think that the political climate has changed, and i think people are starting to take notice of companies that do this. and i think a lot of those companies will have a very, very hard time if they continue to do it. i think verizon has now recognized that, and they've said, okay, your -- you're right. we're going to bring jobs back to the united states. >> host: mr. shelton, you're headquartered here in washington d.c. how much time do you spend with the fcc or congress, and what's your assessment of both those bodies? >> guest: people that work for me mostly spend time with the fcc. i don't spend time with the fcc, but i do have lots of folks who spend time with the fcc. i spend quite a bit of time with congress and, you know, congress

because of the makeup of the congress is, you know, you know and everybody knows that you can't get done in congress because of the make-up of congress. and, you know, as you said when we had 60 seats in the senate, we couldn't even get it done then. you know, what's got to be done is some of rules in the senate and congress have to be changed so that you can get people to get some work done and, hopefully, if we get a democratic president we'll also get a democratic senate and a democratic house of representatives. but we'll see. >> host: and this is a question we ask nearly everybody who sits here at the table. do you think there should be a rewrite or do you have an opinion on whether or not there should be a rewrite of the current telecom law? >> guest: oh, how much time you have? [laughter] >> host: as much as you need. >> guest: yeah. i think there should be a rewrite. i think there's lots of stuff that was missed in the telecom laws that, you know, that have

to be fixed. they just have to be fixed. i mean, you know, broadband being a part of universal service, helping people figure out how they're going to pay for broadband, you know? people making less than $25,000 in this country, i think about 20 or 22% of them have the ability to get on the internet. you know, you've got kids going to mcdonald's to do their homework because they can't get on the internet at home. that's a crime in the richest country in the world, and we ought to figure out a way to fix that. and i think we've got to change some of our telecom laws to make sure stuff like that gets fixed. >> host: mr. shepardson, time for one more question. >> so the fcc has proposed expanding a lifeline program to allow people to use -- >> guest: right. >> but it's not a lot of money in some cases. will that be enough money for people to get on? >> guest: i don't think so. i think we've got to figure out other ways to make sure there's

enough money to -- you know, just like a hundred years ago when people had telephones for the first time, we figured out a way to do that. we now have to figure out a way to make sure or that kids and old folks and people who can't afford it have an ability to get on the internet and to use the internet for all it's worth. i mean, the education that can be had on the internet is just so important to our children that, you know, how do we not figure out a way to let them do that? >> host: former new york telephone repairman and cwa president chris shelton has been our guest this week on "the communicators." >> today on c-span2 a look at how the army is dealing with declining troop levels while meeting sustained demands. that's live at 10:0 a.m. eastern -- 10:30 a.m. eastern. then hillary clinton at a

campaign rally in cleveland, ohio, live at 12:to eastern. later donald trump gives a speech in manchester or, new hampshire. that's live at 2:30 p.m. eastern. ♪ >> our c-span campaign 2016 bus continues its travels throughout the country to honor winners from this year's student cam competition. recently, our bus stopped in maryland and washington, d.c. at montgomery blair high school in silver spring maryland. 41 students were presented with awards in front of class a mates, teachers, parents and local elected officials for producing 14 winning vid is owes including a first prize student cam documentary entitled driving forward. the students won $3,000 for their documentary on infrastructure spending. we also made a stop in washington, d.c. where mark jackson and ali -- [inaudible] both received hon rational

mention for their videos. and maya, david and ali won $750 for their winning videos on money in politics and poverty and homelessness in the united states. a special thanks to our cable partner, comcast cable, for helping coordinate these visits in the community. and you can view all the winning documentaries at studentcam.org. >> now, transportation secretary anthony fox with an update on implementation of the new infrastructure law known as the fast act. he testified to the senate commerce committee. this is two hours. >> good afternoon. this hearing will come to order. mr. secretary, welcome. great to have you here. thanks for joining us to discuss the implementation of the fast act. we've just passed the six month anniversary of the enactment of the first long-term highway bill in more than a decade, and after