>> host: david shelton is president of the communications workers of america union and he is our guest this week on "the communicators." mr. shelton welcome to c-span. we appreciate your coming over. give us a snapshot of the cwa if you would. jaczko we have approximately 700,000 members not only in telecommunications as most people think but in just about every walk of life, every job you could possibly think of. we have reporters, we have nurses, we have even some rocket scientist. we have printers. we have manufacturing folks. you name it we have them. public workers so we are not the old cwa do people think about where it was just telephone employees. >> host: how is it that you can represent those other people under the umbrella of cwa?

>> we have merged a lot of other unions for instance the last one we merged with the flight attendants union and we have represented these folks for instance the printers came cwa since 1987 and we have been merging other unions since then. >> host: what are some the telecommunications companies where your workers are represented? >> guest: at&t conference here, verizon, t-mobile, you name it. >> host: speaking of verizon a 45 day strike recently ended. what came out of that? >> guest: the strike from our point of view was about one thing and one thing only, jobs and job security. i think for verizon was about a lot of things and we managed to come out of it with what we wanted and i think we did very

well. verizon also did okay you know. we are not a union that thinks we should go out to kill an employer. we should go out to keep an employer successful if we can while you represent their members which is what we did at verizon. we came out with lots of jobs that we didn't have before and we got a lot of support back from overseas and from nonunion contractors in the united states which was our goal going in. >> host: joining our conversation today is david shepardson who is a reporter at thompson reuters. guess who you guys were on strike after a months of negotiations. what prompted this strike? was it just that you are making good progress you wanted at the bargaining table and verizon was dug in on some of the issues? >> guest: actually was about 10 months of negotiations and we went on strike because we had no other choice. the company was in the exact same place 10 months after they

started to where they were on day one and where that was what they wanted every single thing that we have been able to gain over the years, they wanted it back and we were going to give it to them. particularly our jobs and our job security. >> guest: did you get we needed on job security? one of the things they have more flexibility in terms of call centers. >> guest: we actually agreed with that and thought that it was a good idea because we maintain all the jobs in the call centers. as a matter fact jobs in the mid-atlantic and the mid-atlantic region verizon was threatening to close, i'm trying to remember about 14 call centers in the mid-atlantic region and we ripple to save everyone of those 14 call centers in the atlantic region. and we thought having calls answered by whoever was available, whenever they were

available as long as we could make their job secure, we thought that was a great idea and we thought it was great for our customers. we were not only about our job so we wanted to make sure verizon's customers were taking care of also and we believe that helped take care of them. >> guest: in terms of the benefits you got a higher pay rates and verizon proposed a new 11% versus a 6.% over the contract and you were able to push back against cuts in things like that but you did except health care concessions which some were put at hundreds of millions of dollars over the next four years. is that right? >> guest: we did make health care concessions that were worth hundreds of billions of dollars that we had been willing to do that since some time in january and that didn't seem to get the companies, we think that the company was not about money necessarily.

they were about trying to cross the union and when you offer them cuts like we were offering them and they just ignore it, you can only konta that can cluj and because it's not about money, to about ideology and that's what we think verizon was after and if that's what they were after they did. badly because they didn't win. >> host: david shelton as you know bryson put several full-page ads in newspapers during the strike saying that these workers are already make a nearly six figures. >> guest: we are doing. well and we understand that this thing was not about money. it was absolutely about jobs. no matter what you're making if you don't have a job it doesn't matter and we need that going in and we knew that coming out and we succeeded in getting what we needed which was jobs and job security. verizon has taken back work from

overseas and contractors that's going to add up to about 1500 people on the east coast which they only exist on the east coast but it's going to be about 1500 new jobs for us. >> host: u.n. labor secretary tom perez and lowell mcadam did much of the negotiating. what was that like? give us a sense. >> guest: i've known mcadam for a while and we have done kosher and together but i have to say secretary perez was fantastic and we also had the presence of the ibew lonni stephenson involved. you know i don't think that we could have gotten there without secretary perez. i think he did an outstanding, outstanding job and just keeping everybody at the table and not walking away and making sure that everybody's points got across to the other side and i think he did a fantastic job. >> host: you said you have known lowell mcadam's for a

while. he is of course the head of verizon. >> guest: we are trying to improve the overall relationship between the union and the company going forward now because i think lowell would tell you that we discovered the relationship was worse than he even thought it was. a relationship with me and him has eyes been cordial but that's not the day-to-day relationship between the union and the company. but i think that they are charlie going to try to improve that relationship because they realized that you know a happy workforce is a good workforce. >> guest: how successful was verizon and training managers to try to do the work of union employees during the strike and how much do you think this hurts verizon in terms of fios installations? >> guest: i think they did as best as job of job as they could have.

i think it was impossible to do what they were trying to do because most of the management especially low-level management that used to come up to the ranks in the company doesn't now and they have people who don't know anything about the job and trying to train them in a technical job. quite honestly they did a pretty pitiful job. >> why do you think you guys are successful getting contracts? you know the waivers become much harder. management in many sectors have taken a much tougher line. is it the. is that the supporter presidential candidates or other people and why do you think verizon ultimately agreed to the deal after six weeks? >> guest: because i think verizon knew that we were hurting them and we were hurting them with the public and they hurt themselves with the public. they had done things that were just anti-consumer and the public knew it. i think the presidential candidates actually helped us.

i don't know how much they help us but they helped us and lowell mcadam going to war with bernie sanders didn't help him a whole lot, i'm in lowell, not bernie. i think that we kind of had the perfect storm. they got hurt, for eyes and, very quickly after we went on strike and the cfo was out telling people that they were going to lose money the second quarter because of the strike. i think everything came together and we got a lot of public support because as you know and as everybody knows the public is now into understanding that the corporations in this country are making too much money while regular people are not doing so well. i think that resonate with the public. >> the contract 65 workers and a half a dozen or so verizon wireless stores are going to be

under union contract. what are the benefits and intranet contract and does that pave the way for other verizon stores? just go i the benefits they are going to get obviously was a first contract so it's not the greatest contract that was ever written but it gives them a voice on the job and the ability to bargain. he gives them a pay raise that they have wouldn't normally have gotten. it changes the way they are paid. he gives them a grievance and arbitration procedure and puts a just core standard in indiscipline they might have which is somewhat unheard of at verizon wireless. so we have a bunch of stores in brooklyn new york and one in massachusetts and will it give us the ability to organize other stores and other people? the company was very cognizant

of that fact and tried not to give us the opportunity to do that but i think that yes it will. >> host: mr. shelton my understanding is that this strike was, they were landline workers who were striking. as fewer and fewer people get or use landlines, how is their job security going to be affected? >> guest: first of all it wasn't only landline workers. it was also verizon wireless workers, the one we represent which are about 90 technicians in and around new york city and the stores that i just mentioned but what most people don't realize and you might but is that without a landline network the wireless network resourcing doesn't happen. we want them to succeed in the wireless world. we also want us to succeed in

the wireless world if it's possible but without the landline division or part of the company's wireless can't succeed and that's part of the reason why we want to continue the fios told out in lots of places and we finally see the bear going to do in boston which they only announced a couple of weeks ago which we have been at them to do for a few years now because we think the fiber is the only way that they are going to be able to improve their wordless network into 5g which is what they want. i think they now realize that also and hopefully boston will be the first tag and a lot of tags in baltimore and buffalo in lots of other places and i have used all the b words now, i'll make it into the fios network. we will see. >> host: how his overall technology changed what cwa

members to? how has it affected you? >> guest: i have been around the union for quite a long time. we have always dealt with technology and some of the unions decided they were going to fight technology. we decided probably 50 years ago that it didn't make any sense to fight technology, we decided probably 50 years ago that we should embrace technology and all the companies we work for to train us in new technology which is what we have done and every telecommunications company that we represent. we have training programs that just keep up with the non--- technology changes are members of learned and we have been very successful doing that. 1968, what was the first time?

>> guest: i was a repairman in new york city. the first day on the job. >> host: how did you grow your position? >> guest: there was a shirt in my office and i got elected president again in june 8 of last year so today is my anniversary. someone sent me a t-shirt to my office and says cwa on top and it has david shelton shop steward, david shelton chief stuart crossed out and it goes on so i've come up through the ranks of the union from the local to the national union and help every child that there is to hold in the national union and now i'm the president. >> host: when did your actual work like the new york telephone etc. and as a repairman when you're union duties took over? >> guest: sometime in the late

70s. >> host: david shepardson. >> guest: in terms of wireless what is the future for the business. verizon trying to sell off the wireless business, does this contract make that work more stable or less likely for verizon to sell the business? >> guest: i don't know that it does either and i don't really know that verizon really does want to sell off their wireline business because if they do then they have no basis for their wireless business. they have to be renting all kinds of technology and structure from another company that they sold to. i don't know that makes sense to lease and what they have left. as you know they have sold properties over the country and the only thing they have left is the eastern seaboard and they themselves think the eastern seaboard is a very lucrative market and i think they would

want to keep it. besides i don't know who has enough money to buy what they have to sell what they wanted to sell it. guess who obviously verizon is offering bundles trying to convince people to get landlines and cable internet at home. is that the way you convince people to keep their landlines or are people going to keep moving toward cell phones? >> guest: you know i think landlines in the voice world may at some point go away but you need it for broadband and people more and more want to have rock band capability and all arena seats is a big fight. the fcc is giving companies money to build out broadband in rural communities. my members do broadband and that's a big big part of what we do and i think it's going to become a bigger part. >> host: david shelton if you will comment and david shepardson refer to this earlier but comment on the state's and

the state of unions in america today. what is your thought? >> guest: obviously as everybody knows unions are not growing, they are shrinking and we are down to about 6% in the earth. i think this fight that we just had with verizon kind of can be a rallying i for the unions because we weren't going out after what companies try to tell people. unions are ours after more money, they want more money, they want one more money. we are out saving middle-class jobs and saving middle-class communities because in every instance, i don't care what kind of company is whether its nabisco or for ricin or whoever it is moves jobs overseas or to mexico or to nonunion contractors. they not only destroy those folks jobs but they destroy community because communities are built around people having these jobs.

tax bases and local communities are dependent on people having jobs in those local communities and that's precisely what we wanted to do here and what we absolutely accomplished. >> host: as the primary season winds down and you have endorsed bernie sanders, but your message here, what you just said sounds a little bit like donald trump. >> guest: maybe donald trump's message sounds like mine. you know i didn't want to get into politics but if i have to i will. you know donald trump kind of is pushing that he is the working-class candidate. it's kind of hard for me to understand how a guy who is a billionaire is a working-class candidate and also he has adopted all these principles just recently. you know he is against trade but he breaks ties in mexico and the philippines and wherever else, china.

donald trump's message is probably a lot like mine but i don't know donald trump believes that message. >> host: if bernie sanders leads the campaign trail, where do you go? >> guest: the only place we can go, hillary clinton. >> guest: do you think your members will enthusiastically support for her even though there had been a lot of members strongly in favor of bernie sanders? >> guest: i think that if the choice is hillary clinton and donald trump, there is no choice for my members at hillary clinton. >> host: what about the tpp? which you have come out against as well. >> guest: so has she. >> host: is that a recent position or settle long-held position? >> guest: its more recent than bernie's but it's not really reason, about six months ago i guess. after the actual language of the tpp came out she said she studied it and she didn't agree with it.

>> host: in your particular case when it comes to the communication workers of america, do call centers, that one of the outsourcing things that hurt your workers in your view? when they have call centers in the philippines? >> guest: absolutely. during a strike we got a call from a call center workers in the philippines. we sent some strikers and one of my employees over to the philippines to find out what was going on. we found out that verizon was sending a lot more work to the philippines then we even knew that they were and you know companies knew this all the time. for instance a few years ago we got a deal with at&t to bring back all that work to the united states. we now have a deal with verizon no more and we are getting some of that back and we are getting a lot of the contracted work in the united states back.

the call centers a place for for all of these companies decide to ship american jobs overseas and verizon in spite of their big ads in the newspapers saying newspaper saying american jobs for american heroes they were sending american jobs over to the philippine heroes someplace. we expose them and they accuse me of sending our strikers on a paid vacation by the union. people sticking automatic weapons in your face is not a paid vacation. it's not my version. >> host: what he mean automatic weapons? >> guest: we went over to the philippines and the guy who is employed by me try to go into a forest management building and management building and was asked to leave, which he did and god and a fan which was outside with three of the stryker senate and the band took off on the public's street and the verizon security force called -- follow the man with people with automatic weapons, stop the men

and held them until if the lapine s.w.a.t. team could show up and they demanded the arrest our strikers. i don't know if they rested them but they took them into custody and held them for 15 minutes until -- told verizon they were crazy and let our people go because we weren't doing anything or breaking lot reagan came close breaking lot asking for a meeting with management at ricin. that's when they accuse me of sending these people on a vacation. >> guest: how motivated is organized labor going to be to get out to the polls this year? two terms of democratic presidents it's harder for that party to retain a third term for democrats? >> guest: i think it's incumbent and i hate the words this is the most important election you have ever seen but this might be the most important election ever seen because i think if trump gets elected not

only is labor in trouble but i think the country is in trouble and labor has to get out and made sure the trump doesn't become the president of the united states. >> guest: democrats were unsuccessful in getting the employee free choice act approved after the 60 votes in the senate which was organized labor. what would you like to see if the democrats retain the white house and could regain at least partial control of congress? >> i'm going to speak to the dnc platform committee tomorrow and one of the things i'm going to bring up is exactly that, employee free choice. we are not done with it and we have proven that at&t we just organized almost 8000 direct tv employs that at&t bought because we have a project neutrality with at&t that they actually honor which is pretty unbelievable in this country. most companies even if they have one don't honor them and we have proven that people if you just

take the fear and the harassment out from management and they will join you. we have had this agreement with at&t for a number of years. we have organized 55,000 people at at&t wireless because of the neutrality agreement and we think it would work for the rest of the country. we have done polls and other people have done polls and most people say they would join a union if they could but they can't coast of what goes on in this country come of people getting fired and harassed and you name it. >> guest: then you mention some of the outsourcing taking place, companies moving jobs to mexico and china. with the climate changing is there any sense that businesses will reconsider this huge manufacturing the loss of millions of jobs in u.s.? >> guest: i think the political climate in this country, i don't know if is because of bernie sanders or trump or who but the political

climate has changed and i think people are starting to take notice of companies that do this a lot of those companies will have a very very hard time if they continue to do it. i think verizon has now recognized that and said okay you are right we are going to bring jobs back to the united states. >> host: mr. shelton you are headquartered in washington d.c.. how much time do you spend with the fcc or with congress and what is your assessment of both of those bodies? >> guest: people to work for me mostly spend time with the fcc. i don't spend a lot of time with the fcc but i do have lots of folks that spend time with the fcc. i have spent quite a bit of time with congress and you know congress, because of the makeup of the congress, is you know, you know when everybody knows you can't get anything done in congress because of the makeup of congress. as you said when we have 60 seats in the senate, we couldn't

even get it done then but what has got to be done if some of the rules in the senate and congress have to be changed so you can get people to get some work done and hopefully if we get a democratic president we will also get a democratic senate and a democratic house of representatives but we will see. >> host: this is a question we asked nearly asked nearly everybody uses to the table, do you think there should be a rewrite or do you have an opinion on whether there should be a rewrite on the current telecom law? >> guest: how much time do we have? yeah i think there should be a rewrite. i think there is lots of stuff that was missing that has to be fixed and it just has to be fixed. broadband being a part of universal service, helping people figure out how they are going to pay for broadband, you

know, people making less than $25,000 in this country, i think 22% of them have the ability to get on the internet. they have kids going to mcdonald's to do their homework because they can't get on the internet at home. that's a crime in the richest country in the world and we have to figure out a way to fix that. i think we have to change some of our telecom laws to make sure that stuff like that gets fixed. >> host: mr. david shepardson time for one more question. >> guest: the fcc have proposed expanding the lifeline program but not a lot of money in some cases the will that be enough money for people to get on? >> guest: i don't think so and we have to figure out other ways to make sure that there's enough money. just like 100 years ago when people have telephones for the first time we figured out a way to do that. we now have to figure out a way to make sure that kids and old folks and people who can't afford it have an ability to get

on the internet and to use the internet for all it's worth. the education that can be had on the internet is just so i'm porting to our children. how do we not figure out a way to let them do that? >> host: former new york telephone repair man and cwa president, david shelton has been our guest this week on "the communicators."