places, we play different interest instruments but we are in the same orchestra. we need more players in the orchestra. it's the orchestra of opportunity. when we go and host events where hopkins of evangelize about why they do this and then you get other employers who are saying i want to join the orchestra, that is lightning in a bottle. so scale and sustainability, getting that orchestra to get more members. that's what it's all about. :

how does it fit into what we are all doing the way that we've made this a priority, making this the priority of integrating it into that. secondly, for us to follow through. we can set out guidance. we can send that off to the world of the housing market but we really need to make sure there's enforcement and that we follow through so that this is meaningful opportunity for folks. i think in the coming years if we can do those two things that will make a much bigger impact and we been able to make so far as this grows. >> two quick points, on one is juvenile justice, place or we've got to get much better at reentry. too often kids don't get quality education and don't have a meaningful transition plan back to their school and unity. that becomes a pipeline to adult prison. we're working with the department of justice to

strengthen we into programs including connecting students with educational and job training. the second is we've got to look, secretary perez, first kansas. we got to look at this problem at all its dimensions of its earliest origins. which is report our civil rights data collection data survey. african-american students are more than three times as likely to be suspended from pre-k. suspended from pre-k. nearly four times as likely to be suspended in k-12 education. we've got to reverse the school to prison pipeline to making sure students have a meaningful first chance and that's what a great with my brothers keeper initiative, really on the interest of all students. we're working to help schools rethink this plan and make sure students are in class learning and getting the support they need to be successful so that we don't condemn them too much

harder like because of choices that we the adults are making early in their life. >> i could do this all day. but we are at time and these busy folks have other important work to do. in closing i guess i would say i think part of my role in moderating this panel was to ground and connect the policy to the real-life experience of people who that contact with the system. i really want to besides the people part. when my parents came and picked me up from the maximum security institution and i was released, they were not picking up a convict. they were picking up their son, picking up a member of their family. all of these folks that we're talking about, these numbers, they are people, they're somebody's family, somebody's father. they are members of our american family. i think what we heard today in

is really big important steps in opening up that opportunity so everybody can pursue the american dream. thank you. [applause] >> nice job. >> please remain in your seats. thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> this afternoon remarks from president obama on global entrepreneurship. you also take part in a panel discussion with facebook founder and ceo mark zuckerberg at this event held in stanford, california. see it live at 1:45 p.m. eastern on c-spa also jake sullivan, the foreign policy adviser for democratic presidential candidate hillary clinton speaks at the truman center's annual conference. the event also includes have discussions on terrorism financing, conflict zones and refugee migration. see those comments live at 5:15 p.m. eastern also on c-span. c-span. >> booktv us 48 hours of

nonfiction books and authors every weekend. here are some programs coming up this weekend.

>> i think it's strange to believe that the element of our gun culture that has the very most gain by selling and promoting and celebrating their products is the very most invisible when we think about guns. instead much of the political talk today is exclusively about

interpreting the second amendment. again industry has become almost invisible in that history. >> go to booktv.org for the complete weekend schedule. >> c-span's road to the white house coverage continues sunday with remarks from hillary clinton of the u.s. conference of mayors. that's taking place this year in indianapolis and you can see her comments live at 4 p.m. eastern on c-span. and in an interview with fellow candidate bernie sanders on his life and career in politics. he sat down with c-span earlier this week for that conversation we were sure to you sunday at

6:30 p.m. and 9:30 p.m. eastern. >> with the political primary season over, c-span's road to the white house takes you to this summer's political conventions. watch the republican national convention starting july 18 with live coverage from cleveland. >> we will be going into the convention no matter what happens and i think we're going to go in so strong. >> watch the democratic national convention starting july 25 with live coverage from philadelphia. >> let's go forward. let's win the nomination and in july let's return as a unified party. >> and then we take our fight for social, economic, racial and environmental justice to philadelphia, pennsylvania. >> every minute of the republican and democratic parties national convention on c-span, c-span radio and

c-span.org. >> next, agriculture and interior department officials testified on forest management and what's being done to prevent wildfires this summer. card about the committee proposal that would end the practice of fire borrowing by enabling the transfer of funds to the forest service and injury department through budget cap adjustment. held in front of the senate energy and natural resources committee, this is two hours. >> good morning. the committee will come to order. we are meeting to receive testimony on the legislative discussion draft entitled the "wildfire budgeting, response and forest management act." and what you think those who join together when we released this draft may 25, along with ranking member cantwell, but senator wyden, you and senator crapo i've been working this issue for a very long time. we thank you for your

leadership. senator risch joined us, so a good strong team with this draft. we've taken public comment on a. we are taking the next step today because i think we recognize we face some serious challenges in an area that needs to be addressed. people across the country are realizing that wildfires are a growing crisis. we certainly know in alaska the devastation that wildfires bring to our state. about half of the 10 million acres that burned last year were in alaska. we've already seen over 200 fires of the season alone. so there's a recognition that it's a real problem, a growing problem, and resolving it will require a comprehensive approach that addresses both wildfire funding and forest management. we need to do both at once because we know the wildfire problem is not just a budgeting problem.

it's also a management problem. i've worked through the appropriations process to provide temporary fixes to ensure that our firefighters and forest managers have the resources that they need. i added $1.6 billion for wildfire suppression to last year's omnibus, 600 million above the average cost over the past 10 years. likely enough to prevent fire borrowing issue. last year's bill included targeted increases in hazardous fuels reduction and timber programs that will help mitigate wildfire hazards and kibar forreston road economies going. just last week, closer to two weeks ago that we reported the interior appropriations bill for the next fiscal year. it again includes full funding for wildfires depression as well as substantial commitment to prevention and forest management efforts. i'm proud of that work but have also be among the first to say that our yearly appropriations

bills are temporary solutions. they can do someone you to the next as i told us over as we develop longer-term solutions, and a longer-term solution is what we have in front of us today. our draft bill includes a fiscally responsible fix to permanently end the destructive practice of fire borrowing. this is where agencies raid nonfarm programs like recreation, wildlife, and timber to pay for firefighting. our fix requires congress to provide resources to the agency's up front, enough to cover 100% of the average annual cost of firefighting over the past 10 years, while allowing for a limited cap adjustment in those truly catastrophic years. in low fire years we allow the agencies to invest leftover suppression funds in prevention projects. indian fire borrowing is something that members on and off the committee have called for. this is not just a western issue.

just this week senator schumer complained that fire borrowing takes federal dollars away from efforts to fight the emerald ash borer and other invasive species in new york. undersecretary bonnie told this committee last year that fire borrowing has significant and lasting impacts across the entire forest service, not to mention its negative impacts on local businesses and economies. yet despite widespread agreement that we need to end this unsustainable practice, the administration is not yet willing to embrace our bipartisan proposal to do just that. instead insist that congress should find 70% of the 10 year average of suppression caused. a proposed cap adjustment would pay for the rest as well as any cost above the 10 year average. congress has rejected this idea every year that it's been proposed. the administration claims it will use the difference between

70% and 100% for forest restoration and other measures that allow you to get ahead of the problem. but regrettably the president's budget request for the forest service sibley does not bear this out. using the 70/30 split the forest service would move about $273 million off budget next year. the administration does not seek to plus-up wildland preparedness for vegetation and watershed management. those accounts are flat. it did not seek to increase for self-management on federal lands. that request is down. of national forest system budget and the forest service overall budgets are down. is doesn't comport with reality. so you can begin to see why wildfires are also a management problem. healthy come resilient forests are fire resistant forests. yet despite about a few reduction treatment and mitigating wildfire risks come increasing firefighter safety, and restoring the health of our

forests, active management is too often met with a series of discouraging and sometimes insurmountable obstacles. high up front cost, long planning horizons and difficult regulatory requirements are impeding our ability to implement treatments at the pace and scale that wildfires are occurring to our discussion draft would take steps to reduce these hurdles without abandoning important environmental protections by building on authorities within the existing healthy forests restoration act. refocused and expedite environmental reviews by limiting the number of alternatives that needs to be analyzed for collaboratively develop projects, including those contained in community wildfire protection plans. are bill pilots a new emergency environmental assessment for native ponderosa pine forests which are highly susceptible to burning in order to reduce the risk of a large destructive and

expensive wildfires that are unfortunately becoming the norm. addressing a management problem would not be complete without attention to our nation's largest national forest, and that's the tongass in southeast alaska. when it comes to the tongass i thinthink we recognize there's always going to be agreement on health we can at least agree that transition to a program focused on predominately young growth timber needs to be real, and not just something that looks good on paper. the forest service needs to do what's right and undertake what the tongass advisory committee act called for in his recommendation, and to call for a comprehensive stand level inventory address the uncertainties that exist in the supply, volume and timing of the available of young growth to support a transition. on january 21 of this year, the tac reiterated the importance of an inventory, calling it the number one priority investment.

because modeling is not good enough for a clear picture of when young growth will come online. a successful transition will only be possible if it is grounded in strong science and fact i comprehensive data. the point of our tongass provision in this draft is not to delay the transition that is already underway but to allow for a meaningful inventory to take place before the land plan is amended. last thing i want to highlight is her emphasis on federal engagement with state and local fire agencies and other partne partners. this is critical to mitigate risk to communities and to manage and respond to wildfires. the investments would authorize will help communities become fire adaptive is an important piece of the solution to escalating wildfire suppression costs in the wildland urban interface. i'd like to close by thanking my colleagues were working with us on this discussion draft. i intend to advance it to the

senate floor as soon as possible and i would hope there was of our committee will recognize what's at stake and join in the effort. width attribute senator cantwell. >> thank you manager thank you for having this hearing this morning, and i think this is a culmination this warning of a lot of hard work in this discussion draft more than two years to conclude the work by our predecessors, public two of three more years before that. i'm so glad that our colleagues are both year because of the roles that they played on this issue as well. i, too, could start with some statistics from our state, the worst fire season in the last two years, 10 million acres burned, 4600 houses destroyed and, obviously, very sad fact of the tablets with our firefighters. we are going here from commissioner goldmark to issue from our state, he's going to tell us in more detail about all of that. i appreciate him being on the second panel. instead of going over more

statistics i would like to spend some time talking about what i think we should do to reduce the risk, reduce the intensity and reduce the costs. scientists are telling us that these fire seasons are both longer and hotter. in april report from headwaters economics said that one degree increase in temperature change results in a doubling of firefighting costs, 25% increase in the number of wild land fires and 35% increase in the number of acres burned. so just one degree temperature change will make our problems even more complex. i believe it most effectively address the root cause of the problems with fire risk and fire budgeting. if this is the new normal we need better strategies to deal with the problem. i'm glad under secretary bonnie and mr. reiser to talk about some of the strategies today. because i don't think the temperature change is going to stop it i think we're going to

have continued risk. our efforts need to be guided by scientists and the science is telling us we need policies that will make are at risk forest more resilient to fires and keep our firefighters safer to protect our western communities from the impact of wildfire which we have seen the huge economic impacts of this in the last couple of years with losing over $2 billion of timber revenue. so we have also later the director of how fire joining us on the second panel, and chief pimlott's testimony discusses at length the need to treat the fuels that have built upon a national forest, the discussion draft includes a pine pilot as the chair said, and i think it is a key provision that any western senators should be interested in. as part of this what i see is the new strategy for firefighting on federal land

management agencies, they need the tools to complete their job. we need to be proactive in reducing fire risk and the discussion draft today contains a number of tools for doing that. i want to talk about this pine pilot in specifics. that section drags the agencies to focus their efforts that will take place in areas that are most at risk. we have put out a couple of charts that hopefully we can show to people, that the science is built upon. the forest service is rank the different parts of the national forests based on fire risk. the most at risk are in the red areas. the next chart is from a former head of fire from the forest service, who published an academic paper. the connection between ponderosa pines and the large fires we've been experiencing. so scientists are telling us that restoring the health to the ponderosa pine forests through

thinning and prescribed fire is the best way most effective way to deal with this issue. so after merging these two maps we've identified more than 2 million acres that we want the forest service to place a priority on intriguing. these 2 million acres are the most at risk for far, the place to produce have the largest impact in reducing fuels, and the places that are best supported by the science in the public. in this pilot would provide the tools to the agency such as long-term contracts to individual medals and preferences for cross laminated timber so we are securing more sustainable buildings. these tools will help us get this work done and will help us, and i believe, have a much more proactive discussion in the discussion that happened after the fire. we need to do reduction. implementing this program does change the fire risk. the science are showing that it

can happen and there's actually video on the web proves it. the spokane tribe released recent fuel treatment and how it fared last year in the carpenter road fire. i recommend anybody who wants to look at the end of the carpenter road fire, they fill treatment effectiveness, they installed lap time lapse time cameras where the fire burned through end of the show is compelling evidence that the value of this pine pilot could have both be held in the land and national forest wind. more broadly there are other provisions of this bill the think we need to implement. but to me with one degree temperature change driving the challenge, the scientists are saying that this kind of investment reduces the size of the fires, and i think that is what we need to try to target. other provisions in the draft

committee preparedness, 600 million would be authorized to help at risk communities. i know my colleagues from the west understand this. when you talk about twist or others, these committees are risk and they need help and support. they need to make sure that small communities who are on the frontlines of fighting these fires have some immediate capital ready to do what we think is hasty response. also ou have a section in the dt on new technology to deploy gps entrance of wildfire today reversed this technology as the holy grail of firefighting. for the first of african incident managers would be able to see in real-tim real time thn of the fire and their crews. dozers are also ensure that we will work together effectively come ensuring agencies all of firefighting equipment available that can do wonders in helping to engage in what has again been defined in washington state by various entities as hasty response.

last year as i traveled through the state and that i was going to be reviewing the previous year's fire season, we know a huge new fire season opened up. community after dinner the including a roundtable we held with cathy mcmorris rodgers, and later hearings, this issue could not have been more clear for my constituents. knit together a cooperative so that those on the front lines who have the tools to do some immediate response don't all of a sudden it stopped at a line that says dnr order -- or national forest service can you do have the right to cross. figure it out because they're so much capacity when people want develop and coordinate, and i know we can do it. i know our community came together in the aftermath of oso and we worked diligently to try to find those individuals

impacted by devastating landslide. i am sure we can do the same in fighting our fight. the discussion draft also helped ensure communications infrastructure remains functioning during wildfire season. this was an issue where communities have been activated or trying to be activated but no broadband communities should exist. no one can get access to the broadbent until emergency is declared, which is like filing paperwork and send it away for a month of deliberation. at that time they are still trying to communicate these various plants. we have to come up with him and his draft does. i am ready to declare a fire borrowing the great debate. this senator is agnostic as to how we solve it, but it do have a couple of principles in general. first, we cannot rob peter to pay paul. the forest service needs both

the amount of money to fight the fires and they need the money dedicated to do fuel reduction. we have to produce a draft out of fear, madam chair, to give them the ability to do both. and on the implementation of the pine forest, i would choose to washington state invested $18 million in 2014 to rebuild the salmon habitat fo but most f it was burned up in 2015. so we need to have dedicated funds to protect our investments, the federal government investments come if we're going to deal with the fire problem. we have to both dedicated funds for doing fuel reduction and dedicated funds to fighting the fires. today firefighting constitutes 50% of the forest service budget. report said the proportion will grow to 67% over 10 years and that means over 700 million less for those non-fire accounts if we continue to try to solve it this way. i hope we will all work together undeand to look for to

undersecretary bonnie's comments on this is how we going to solve this because we have had a shift in temperature that demands a new response. to date, senator murkowski and i have received a number of letters on this draft. and number groups want more things include into the. i personally want a more robust controlled burn section. this is a very complex issue and i know many of my constituents did not want to see smoke in their communities. we understand that but trying to do prescribed burns and the drive out of months of august is the wrong idea. we need the flexibility to do it in the winter months of the pacific northwest, not when the fuel is so built up and our conditions are so dry. we need to work together on that. a number of groups want drafts provisions removed like the tongass and a number of groups

have provided feedback on how to make section for you select discussions on the pine pilot. all i know is that we have to come together to solve this issue. i appreciate so much as i said my colleagues here today been working on this issue for several years as well. i would like to submit also this chart that would show where the board feet of potential pine forest reductions would come from my state, and so my colleagues can see this. this is not something that, madam chair, that i come to easily. but i think this is a better path forward down the route we have been going with the aftermath of a fire and then trying to decide what to do with salvaged logs. if the federal government is going to be sent between two and $3 billion a year on fighting

fires, because of the increasing risk, we need to do something to reduce the risk and i think this is a suggestion worth considering. thank you. >> thank you, senator cantwell. appreciate the level of detail there. we will now turn our first panel. will have two panels this morning, and i know that there is much to be put on the table so we will proceed immediately to it. the first panel we're joined by mr. robert bonnie was the undersecretary for natural resources and inside the u.s. department of agriculture as well as mr. bryan rice, director from the office of wild land fire at the department of the interior. welcome to the committee. i must tell you that i was very disappointed that we did not receive her testimony until at least 11:00 last night. i think for colleagues that were quite anxious to see the direction and the comments did not be able to receive them until early this morning when

folks came in. you can do a heck of a lot better and i just need to start figuring come unfortunate, with an is admonishment i think the committee deserves a little mo more, a little more respect from the administration in terms of your statement. with that, if you would proceed. >> thank you, chairman murkowski, ranking member cantwell and members of the committee. thank you for having me here today. more important thank you for scheduling this hearing on the issue of such vital importance. everything the forest service does, everything is being negatively impacted because of the ever-growing proportion of the agency budget spent fighting for. two decades ago the agency spent 16 of its budget on fire. debate they routinely spends more than half of its budget on firefighting. non-fire staff in the agency has dropped by 39% since 1998 many with fewer staff to restore forests, provide recreation,

manage habitat, you name it. investing forest restoration is critical to addressing the threat. since 2000 administration is increase the number of acres restored across the national forest to prescribed fire and other means. by investing in collaboration and landscape scale mesh with increased timber production by 20% the over the long can the agency will not be up to sustain these gains much less further increase the number of acres we restore unless congress fixes the fire budget. take to reduce is that there's broad agreement among stakeholders to republicans democrats, that this problem the state. wild fires might be thought of as a western problem the truth is the budget impacts the forest service everywhere the east, west, north and south. fixing the fire budget problem requires doing two things. first we must in fire borrowing so that when the agency exhaust its fire suppression budget as it does in most years it doesn't have to transfer dollars from non-fire programs to fund

firefighting while congress we are versus the agency for the transferred funds, firebombing disrupt the agency's ability to get work done. the second problem, the growth of fire suppression expenditures and the erosion of the rest of the forest service budget is actually far more debilitating to the agency and fire borrowing. let me explain. bylaw the forest service has defined fire suppression based on the average of suppression expenditures over the previous 10 years. at the cost of firefighting are rising dramatically due to blogger fire season can increase your loads and development into the wild land urban interface. every year the forest service must set aside more money for fire. over each of the last two years the forest service has transferred or than $100 million from its non-fire programs to firefighting. that money was not borrowed. as long as hard costs keep rising as they surely will, that money is moved out of our non-fire programs ending to firefighting.

so if you want to store forest producer to catastrophic fire, we have to solve his second problem. and want to increase recreational access or fix a $300 million backlog in trails we have to solve it. if we want to does the 66 million dead trees in california, we have to solve this problem. the bipartisan wildfire act so football but along the forest service to access disaster funds when it spends 70% of its suppression budget. this both prevents fire transfers and allows the agency to invest additional resources in forest management. there are other ways congress could address the second issue as well by providing additional capacity to the agency. you could cap a suppression budget 100% of 2015 levels, take the additional money that congress is investing in firefighting and devoted to restoration or recreation or what have you. with the conference a budget fix the administration can support

efforts to providing agency with additional forest management tools to increase the pace and scale of restoration. such provision shall be built on collaboration among stakeholders and a strong environmental safeguards. the fourth management provisions congress back in the 2014 farmville struck the right balance and demonstrated it was possible to pass legislation with those forest industry and conservation support. let me address the tongass national forest. for decades the tongass has been mired in controversy. usda and the forest service have invest in collaboration in order to find a path forward that sustains a viable timber industry while transitioning away from over timber harvesting the next 15 years but we oppose provisions dealing the amendment. most important i want to stress we look forward to working with this committee and others in congress to put together a legislative package that fixes the fire budget provides balance tools to increase forest restoration and management. thank you and i'm happy to answer any questions. >> thank you mr. bonnie.

mr. rice, welcome. >> good morning, chairman murkowski, ranking member cantwell, members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to come in today and provide the testimony from the department of the interior regarding the wildfire budget in response and forest management act of 2016. for introduction, the department of the interior works with the bureaus within the department of wild land fire responsibility and to provide the leadership, the oversight focusing on budgets and policies that affects nearly 500 million acres across the department of the interior's land-based. with appropriate we work closely with other federal agencies, states, tribes and external partners as well as organizations to provide strategic leadership and support as well focusing on attendance of a cohesive strategy as well as implementation of 3336.

the department would like to express thanks to our partners in congress for support for the wild land fire resilient landscapes program. that continued support is a critical step forward as we recently received over 75 pre-proposals for this next year that have nearly $74 million of requests. this on the heels of the 2015 fire season been the costliest on record and burning the most acres since we've been recording since 1960. as in past fire seasons the wildfires we are seeing in the season is going to be highly dependent upon the weather as well as other human factors. we are seeing impacts from climate change, drought, invasive species as well as our other factors and they're creating this landscape for more

susceptibility to devastating wildfire. with an ever-expanding wildland-urban interface in the inherent complexity associate with the company for partnerships is continuing to grow. we are continuing to make proactive investments in fuels management and those resilient landscape activities across the landscape to better address the growing impact of wild land fire on communities and public lands. the resilient landscapes activity is coordinate with and supported by those resource management programs within the bureaus of the department of the interior, national park service, fish and wildlife service, as well as the bureau of indian affairs. those programs are working in concert with tribes, states and other organizations that are involved. on another note i would like to highlight, the department is showing leadership in providing training and job opportunities for our veterans that are coming

back, and wishing to continue their service and working in natural resources or other natural resource management programs. we are taking great pride in those many women that are coming back to serve and realize bureau of land management has provided wildfire firefighter one into training for over 400 veteran of volunteers over the last year. in regards to the draft bill, the department continues to expect fixing the fire funding that ends transfers, recognizes catastrophic fire is a natural disaster ensures our efforts to suppress those fires does not diminish our efforts to create more resilient landscapes. the department strongly opposes section 201 in title ii as poorly written look forward to working with the committee to find language that identifies standards that meet the goals of

over all safety, interoperability and efficiency spirit the department is leading many activities focusing on uas that seek to provide firefighter and public safety while ensuring operations are continued and carried on. we have examples from 2014, 2015. most recently here in 2016 on the north fire in new mexico where we have uas systems that are providing real-time mapping capabilities as well as infrared video. in regards to the last title and focus on some of the other land management activities, the department is focused on ensuring strong environmental safeguards and to further support increased resilience in landscape across the bureaus. enclosing department of entry works close with our federal tribal state of local partners, and lastly we will continue to

improve interagency forest and range land management while importantly upholding our trust responsibility to this concludes my statement about the happy to answer any questions. thank you. >> thank you mr. rice. we would begin with a round of questions and let me begin with you, mr. bonnie. i want to start with the tongass inventory. i will tell you i am quite disturbed by the statement in a written test plan. you kind of glossed over it in your oral remarks this morning, but you make a statement that says that the requirement for inventory with the quote contrary to the recommendations of the tongass advisory committee as well as causing an unnecessary delay. i'm really stunned by the level of a statement. when you look to forest service own website, to talk about the tongass inventory and the plant

amendment, you on your website, you say in inventory is needed to address the uncertainties. the plant amendment needs to have credible information to accurately predict the time and supply of young growth. this can only be obtained by comprehensive stand level inventory. the statement from the secretary on your website again, secretary emphasizes transition must take place in way that preserves a viable timber industry that provides jobs and opportunities for residents of southeast alaska. we all agree on that. the tac itself has said in january 21 the tac said there's a number of investment investmed to be made. the number one priority investment is a forest inventory. because modeling is not good enough for a clear picture of when young growth will come online for the next 15 year period of. so for you to say that this is

contrary to the recommendations of the tac just does not comport with what the tac has said and said very clearly, as well as what you have on your own website. what's up? >> so we are carrying out in inventory right now as you know in parallel with what the tac recommended in their final report. the level of inventory i think you are talking about is unnecessary for us to arrive at a decision on a plant amendment. >> who has decided that is unnecessary to arrive at the level of the plant recommendation? >> the inventory we are carried out by that will give us information that will allow us to do projects in of the things that i think we had information we need right now to do a broad plan level a minute but the inventory suppling doing this allow us to plan sales. >> the inventory has been recognized as necessary to provide for that level of

certainty for the plan. forest service recognizes it. the tac recognizes it. so to suggest that we know enough now that we can just move forward with the plan allies -- belies the concern from everyone saying we need to understand where we are in the growth stage, in terms of the visibility. we recognize and inventory in the tongass is tough because the tongass is the area. but in order to have a plan that is based in reality, everyone recognizes we need to understand what we are getting with with the trees. so are you going against the tac recommendation? >> no. i think we're in line with the tac recommendation to the asked us. they were very concerned about implementation. asked us to move forward with the inventory we are doing up as you we're doing in partnership with the state's i think were

very much in keeping with what the tac has asked. >> what you are suggesting to me here in your words are, the requirement to inventory, and i would use your statement here, all 462000 acres of young growth sites on the tongass, before issuing a record of decision will cause an unnecessary delay would be contrary to the recommendations of the tongass advisory committee. i will just take you back to the statement from the tac itself on gender 21 that says the number one priority investment is a forest inventory because modeling is not good enough for a clear picture of when young growth will come online during the next 15 year period. so no, the recently concluded this requirement within this draft legislation is to follow out the intent of the tac as well as what forest service has been saying all throughout this discussion, that we need to

understand what we have in terms of available young growth so that we can make sure to use the secretary's words, we preserve a viable timber industry that provides jobs and opportunities for the residents of southeast. i'm going to turn to senator cantwell now. >> thank you undersecretary bonnie, and thank you for your testimony this morning. i wanted to go over this issue of fuel reduction because it's so important to so many of us. and this issue about fuel reduction by limiting need the considerations one thing that kind of hit hit me. i know your testimony or the administration also talked about that and out you could elaborate on that point spent i think what we've said all along is that with a conference at the happy

to look at provisions, to workforce management of the national forest. those provisions need to have strong environmental safeguards but they need to be based on collaborative and we think those two things can be really important and a lot asked to move forward with those types of tools. and so any provisions that were look at i think those are going to be important that we recognize the need to get more work done. and critical to do is think about larger landscapes as you talk about but also working in collaborations we can reduce litigation risks so we can move forward with these projects more quickly spent so that language would be problematic if it stayed in the draft? >> so i think what we would suggest if you talk about the action, the action section, i think what we were suggest is making sure it's got strong environmental safeguards.

it needs to be discretionary, not mandatory. the language right now is mandatory and that's problematic it was suggested adding a third alternative. >> and then on the pine pilot in general, what are your thoughts as a fuel reduction to? >> you were thinking as i could write about thinking about larger landscapes and think about how we get fire back into these ecosystems. i think that's important. that collaboration is a board. and five as a safeguard to support. i told her staff were anxious to work with you on it for some provisions. >> mr. rice, on reducing risks by doing some fuel reduction, what are your thoughts about the pine pilot? >> thank you for the question, senator. i think for many of the projects specifically the pine pilot you referring to, the department in many instances will defer to usda to address many of these issues as it is focused on

forest service lands, but the overriding themes as you pointed out in several cases so far of ensuring environmental safeguards, strong environmental safeguards are in place, and further developing landscapers of the land is important. >> there's no secret here. i have discussed this issue with various people, and so this is about whether we all can get comfortable with the response to what's happening. can we all agree? i'm hearing from scientists in my state, university of washington and others who say these pine forest are going to burn down. i would prefer to keep them but if they're going to burn down, guess what, i don't get to keep them. i can get to manage. i can get the fuel reduced. i can make sure that the middle stay open by giving them long long-term contracts so they can continue to process. to me that is a win-win-win. if i don't get to keep it by forest because they will burn

down, i would rather have some of it reduced and say the federal government dollars, so to our communities and be proud of the management of our timber products into sealed the. i guess it's a question of whether both your agencies agree with these environmental assessments, have been presented to the about the forest and whether they're going, whether of the next decade of temperature increases is this the hazard we are facing. duty to gather comet about that? >> there is a portion we've got to get more restoration done the many of our forest look differently because we've taken fire out. that combined with climate change as he spoke that is changing the nature of the fires we've seen now to make more destructive and larger and restoration is the key to reduce the severity of those fires. >> thank you. thank you, madam chair. >> thank you, chairman murkowski

and ranking member cantwell. i gratefully put forward to this draft, this does work and i like the bipartisan spirit that made this possible. secretary bonnie, good to see again. i am dismayed at outraged. we have breaking news coming out of montana that hit us the twist year lived up as just yesterday, warehouser announced it is closing two mills in columbia falls montana this summer. 100 montanans will lose their jobs. these are good paying jobs on top of another 100 job cuts that were previously announced. the companies said they been running below capacity because of an ongoing shortage of logs in the region. i want to put to rest this nonsense i hear from folks who are a post saying the reason that no so close them again is because of lack of demand. that is absolutely false.

the issue is lack of logs and by the way, it's not lack of available timber. some of our mills today in montana are getting logs over 500 miles away. we go to other states to get blogs if we go to other countries your we go to canada to get logs. it's ridiculous. it's got to end. this body needs to act to help save right now our forest and these jobs. i want to draw your attention to the flathead national forest which surrounds much of columbia falls. i'm not behind it, this section in orange are the acres suitable for timber harvest. in fact, if you look at where the red circle is that's where the warehouser operations is that. we just put this map together last night. we got news that nobody saw this coming. we knew our timber industry has

been very clear that they can't get logs. that we just saw 100 montanans lose their jobs. if you look at that map there's about 700,000 acres of suitable timber for harvest. we could get to a national forest. that's the colors on that chart. that's all within 100 miles of that weyerhaeuser operation. despite the hard work, the volumes of heart is coming off this forest and nearby national forest is not anywhere where it can't end should be. the latest mill closing art due to enforcement. they are also not surprising over the past generation as i was a kid growing up in montana, we've lost two-thirds of our mills. we had over 30 when i was a kid. we are down to 10. here is one more to put on the list. we have lost 40% of our product,

would product workforce. the i is we're talking with his job loss can go to of the committee hearings, our counties, surrounded by our federal lands who've lost their natural resource base no longer have a tax base to fund their schools and their teachers and their infrastructure, and we've got these dying communities. the family of been eureka which is nearby where this plant closing occurred, couple years ago was having dinner and they said basically we describe north was montana, poverty with a view. that's what's going on. we briefly discussed the impact of litigation in montana and we've had hearing after hearing after and as a talk about getting one of the core, fix this problem and move forward to a responsible timber harvest we need to have some reforms in litigation to listen to disco t, there are currently 21 projects under litigation. 13 of these were developed using

collaborative processes. recent objections filed by the environmental groups do not represent the 90% of most montanans that are stopping these projects. they are singling, they are seeing more litigation. my question of that is a backer. asked the committee works on this draft, if we can find common ground on litigation reform, expanding the balance of harms protections, closing loopholes, exploited in the courtroom as we see in the cottonwood versus forest service case. strengthened the objection process and establishing a pilot arbitration authority. candidature commitment to work with me and others of this good defined in consensus on such solutions that can be incorporated into this emerging legislation? >> we are happy to work with you on forest management reforms.

my concern about litigation is whether or not we can maintain a middle so we can move something forward. >> do you believe litigation is a -- >> it's a big challenge in your part of the world, no question. >> can't i get your commitment to work with us to find common ground? >> we are committed to work with you. understand -- >> that's not a guess. can i get a yes? >> absolutely. >> we are at a point now this is something when your phones are ringing come when you're seeing 100 montana families losing jobs because of lack of logs, when you're surrounded by timber, something's got to change. thank you. >> senator heinrich. >> first i want to thank the chair and ranking member for the work on this issue. this issue of how we fund our forests and their management is

critical to communities across the west. is absolutely critical in many communities in new mexico. as we speak right now the dog had fire continues to burn in the eas eastbound. not far from at home and albuquerque action. last week we lost 24 homes. 20 other structures when that fire raced out of the mountains and into a subdivision. it is only thanks really to like and favorable wind and the very hard work of our firefighters on the ground that the structure losses numbered in the dozens and not in the hundreds. and that we have zero loss of life, thank goodness. this fire actually overlaps with a collaborative forest project which includes partners like the nature conservancy, the pueblo, the land grant and even though the nepa process was completed

back in 2012, the forest service did not have the funds to pay to do the actual work in the forest. it took two more years to come up with a fun to start the work and still only 7000 of 12,000 acres were treated before the fire was ignited. it's hard not to think about how things might have been different if this entire area had been successfully treated and restored before the fire broke out last week. i know we all wish the forest service could approve projects faster more efficiently but the fact is project approval is only the first hurdle in getting work done to make our forest healthier. without a robust and stable budget all the process streamlining in the world doesn't get trees cut. so i look forward to hearing our witnesses today and what they had to say about the issues but we can't wait any longer to get large-scale forest health projects implemented in new mexico and for that matter across the west.

undersecretary bonnie, i want to ask i you the fire program of te forest service is consuming a larger percentage of the overall forest budget every year. last year the first time the forest service that more than half its budget on fire activities come and to 25 the fire program is expected to consume two-thirds of the budget. obviously, this cuts out money at it crowds out money for non-fire related programs, recreational programs, personal firewood use permits which is so important in new mexico, trail maintenance, restoration and watershed health. i want to ask you does this draft we're discussing today do anything to address the growth over time in the ten-year average? >> it doesn't. it just addresses the first problem i addressed, fire borrowing spink so if we fix the fire borrowing but don't fix the growth in the 10 year average

and don't take into account continued change were sinking climate, what does that mean for the non-fire programs of the forest service overtime? >> the biggest impediment to the forest service getting more work done, more restoration work is a lack of capacity. 39% fewer employees in the non-fire side versus the fireside and it's affecting everything. to your specific point on restoration if you want to get more work done we have to solve this problem. >> we have got to figure this out because we have projects all over in forest across the mexico where the community has come to a generalized consensus about what needs to be done. the relationships with the forest service are positive. people generally agree on what need to be done. oftentimes much of the plan has been done but we can't get the funny because we're spending it all on firefighting. we've got to find a way to move

that back over time. before my time has expired i want to ask you about the ponderosa pilot project. the draft project describes eligible projects as hazardous fuel reduction projects under the current draft would that include prescribed fire as well as mechanical thinning? or do we need to clarify that? the idea is the first way to go in and then mechanically. that is a certain costs or and in the second wave hopefully you maintain that by restoring fire into a firebase system at a much lower cost to the taxpayer. >> we would read it does include that but clarification i think would be welcomed. >> looks like my time is expired, madam chair. >> thank you, senator heinrich. senator wyden. >> thank you very much, madam chair. let me commend you and the bipartisan leadership for all the effort that went into the draft. this is not an easy lift and i

very much appreciate, i do indeed. madam chair and colleagues, ending the plague of fire borrowing is now the longest running battle since the trojan war. and it is time to bring this to an and. and i know this was little unorthodox but i want to give a little history on this on behalf of senator crapo and i. as you know the two of us have worked together on this, and with you. our proposal to end the fire borrowing now has the support of two and 58 organizations -- 258 -- given history on this, especially appreciate your desire to get this done before the next fire season. in terms of advancing the effort i would just like to put into the record that colloquy that 11 of us entered into a year ago

where we said we were going to get it done come into your i want to make sure we are clear on major issue with respect to the mix of indian fire borrowing and management to the chair and i've talked about this often because i've been supportive of management efforts as has been senator crapo. the concern is if you take on too many difficult management issues you will not in fire borrowing, and that's been the history. seems to ranking member on our side saying here is where we like to begin the discussion. we want to make sure we end up getting something done. we want to get something done. ask the chair and i've talked about, getting something done is

also a bicameral ever because i thought we were pretty close last year of finally getting it done. it broke down, the discussion between the senate and house. to on the fire borrowing issue i want to make sure we are clear on the administration's position. i believe the administration believes that to deal with fire borrowing, you have to free come at a use that word specifically, you have to freeze the amount of money that is spent on fighting fire on a 10 year average. if you don't have a freeze or something that resembles a budget control tool like that, we are not going to get this done. to you all support the concept of a freeze speak with this. we talked about the freeze and the 70% in your legislation as well as what to do exactly what your talking about. >> how about your colleague? what is his view with respect to this? >> thank you, senator.

i'm in the same place. i think the administration's proposal of 70% as well as looking at the 1% of fires and categorizing them as catastrophic wildfire, focusing on the element, that will give us the flexibility to focus on landscape restoration. >> for purposes again i touched on with the chair and the ranking minority member here as well, that's the ticket what we need to do to fix fire borrowing. as i've indicated i support management as well. ..

the other part of the congress is going to insist on some management reforms. what kind of management reforms could you support in those discussions. >> i think you and many others worked on a 2014 farm bill and some of the provisions in there. they require collaboration and environmental safeguards and i think using that as a basis and looking for things, to use your thinking, something that we can get done and i think there is common ground that we can find for cross people and the conservation community and elsewhere. >> my time is up, could you get to the chair and the ranking minority member and the rest of us on this committee the specifics of what management reforms the administration would support in addition to the effort to end, finally once and

for all, the fire borrowing because that will have to be part of actually getting this done. >> yes. >> can we have that within two weeks? >> we will try. >> we better have it within two weeks because the fire season is on us and there are many days left in the congress. two weeks? >> i'm on it. >> thank you madam chair. >> thank you senator wyden. i appreciate you pushing for the specifics. as i mentioned, it's it's my intention to be moving this proposal in a relatively direct manner. we don't have a lot of legislative days before we conclude for mid july. i would reiterate the request from senator wyden and ask that you be most expeditious getting us those specifics in the next two weeks. >> thank you madam chair and thanks for holding these hearings to allow for the budgeting and enforcement act and welcome to the committee.

thank you for being here. thank you for the work on this discussion draft and to reaffirm my commitment to all of us to address this very critical issue. it something i hear about from county commissioners every time i go back to colorado, the importance of addressing this issue. colorado as well as many western states who are on this committee here to talk about the impact significant loss that can happen from a fire in the issues of funding and staff to manage the forest which is a big issue and the acres of forest and grassland. it's all affected with drastic impacts we've had from budget reductions another thing on how we currently fund wildlife fire suppression i want to turn to you mr. bonnie. thank you for being here and your commitment commitment to working with my office on these issues. we have got to find an end to this fire borrowing practice. we've seen a wildfire in

northwestern colorado, the beaver creek fire, not what many people think of beavercreek, it's a different area than beavercreek colorado but it's on the wyoming colorado border. our officers have been in touch with forced officers and were very hateful for the work that the firefighters are doing on the scene. there are at least two other fires burning in colorado as we speak. this is an important issue in real-time. in the context of wildfire burning and suppression, the concern is the white river national forest. this force has lost 40% of the budget staff and the recreation use has continued to increase. it's the most heavily visited national forest. one of the most negative effects of the trend is that the agency is unable to be a responsible partner to deliver preparations for all of our visitors. during the forest service budget

hearing in 2017, i asked, the two 2017 budget, i asked how they plan to address this issue and they are going to meet with me in july to further address the question. i appreciate that commitment and would ask you if you are aware of any plans to address these issues with the white river national forest. >> i think as you know we used to have eight full-time staff members that worked directly with the ski industry there and i think we are around two now. you're absolutely right, were not providing the level of service we need to be an assistant pattern. i've been in touch with folks from the industry and they've talked me absolutely willing to be engaged and be creative about how we can solve this problem. >> very good, i appreciate that. turning now now to another area of colorado, the durango and

railroad area. it's our crown jewel in colorado and really the west but because of the fire of the old railroad they are required to have firefighting capabilities to address any spot fires that might come up. these firefighting capabilities that they possess include water tanks, pumps, following the train, and a, and a helicopter that is on standby to make water drops. while the railroad is responsible for addressing fires that come up, they are prohibited from fighting fires which, beyond the rights of way in the forest service plan and must instead just reported instead of actually using the resources to help fight it. on november 17, 2015i asked questions questions of this committee during a hearing on wire fires and we talked about certification issues and how they could be empowered to fight fires before they get out of control when they are spotted. section 201 of the discussion draft would require a single system for both wildfire aircraft in interim acceptance of both standard. it's my hope that this section 201 will help the situation at

least in colorado. could you talk a little bit about the forest policy with private entity with the railroad in preventing railroad. >> we do a lot of work with contractors to provide helicopters. the vast majority are through contractors. the caution i will raise on the certification issue deals with air safety. we had a number of accidents and so the standards we set are very important. we're happy to work with your office on the issue, the fly guy would raise is that we want to make sure whatever we are doing, we are safe as we can. >> thank you, i look forward to more conversation. things for the work you are doing in colorado as we speak. >> thank you, i appreciate working with you. last year the chief testified to

this committee on the interaction of wildfire and climate change and as the chief shared, scientists scientists at the forest service believe climate change is one of the major factors leading to recent trends of longer fire seasons with wildfires that are larger and more intense. in fact, fire seasons are now on average nearly 80 days days longer than they were in 1970 and wildfire burned twice as many acres today as they did 30 years ago. our climate is warming and we are experiencing unfamiliar, unprecedented conditions throughout the new normal. larger than average fire seasons may be the new normal.

under secretary bonnie, in your opinion, what extent is climate change driven the increases in fire suppression costs that we have been seeing? >> there is no question it has had a significant impact. we are seeing a larger and more catastrophic fires. it's not the only thing. because we have taken more funds of the system, it drives costs up and the terms are not good. >> clearly climate change has a cost and this cost is having a serious impact on your agency. unfortunately my colleagues across the aisle seemed to be in denial about the real cost of climate change and for some of them, whether climate change even exists. do you expect the cost to rise as climate change continues to get worse? >> yes scientists believe we

will double the acreage we are learning by mid century. more than double, actually. minnesota has about 1 billion ashtrays and is home to the largest country concentration of ash in the country. the invasive emerald ash bohr has destroyed tens of millions of ash trees throughout the u.s. since it was first detected in 2002. sec. bonnie, i want to to thank your agency for the work that you are doing at the for station to combat ash bohr in my state and throughout the country, but i am concerned concerned at the growing cost of wildfires suppression is draining your budget and hindering other great work of the forest service is doing outside of fighting wildfires.

i believe they've been mentioned in this hearing they have 39% fewer staff and non- fire positions than it did less than 20 years ago. so mr. undersecretary, as you know it is not uncommon for funds or staff to get transferred midseason to fight wildfire spread the bill we are discussing today discusses the fire borrowing issue but does not fix the fact that it continue to grow in a road the overall forest budget. is that right? >> that's right. >> okay, thankfully, minnesota typically does not experience catastrophic fires we see out west, but the cost of wildfire suppression is still significantly impacting my state and i want to make sure that any wildfire legislation addresses the needs of minnesota so we too can tackle our most threatening issue like the emerald ash bohr

and protect our cherished resources. one thing i would like to see in any comprehensive wildfire legislation is finding a market for hazardous fuel and forest ways. communities are increasingly built at the heavily wooded areas where they are at risk from economic damage from forest fires. we know that removing hazardous fuel like underbrush and immature trees can also help reduce the severity of wildfires and mitigate damages especially when it's done right around communities near or within our for us. i see an opportunity to help pay for the removal of hazardous fuels by using this waste as a source of electricity for nearby communities. this could simultaneously reduce fire risk and bring economic

benefit and other facilities that use biomass which are ideal options. as my time runs out, undersecretary bonnie, once it is cut, what is done with hazardous fuel today? >> in many cases we are paying people to remove them. to your point if we had greater markets we would actually be able to get more work done. for services making investments here but there's more to do in the budget constraints we are operating under make it more difficult. i know i'm over but can i ask one last question? >> okay, in in your experience what are the major roadblocks to using hazardous fuel for biomass power, we were saying it could help both mitigate fire risks and play a role in clean air. >> one of the challenges about the lack of markets and other things.

it's going to require investment >> thank you and thank you madam chair. >> thank you madam chair, i am trying to figure out relationships between fires, climate change and management of the forest. my impression is, i think you are chart is showing that part of preventing fires is more intensive management of the fires. is that correct. >> yes. >> yet the increase in fires is a vicious circle. the increase in fires is sopping up so much of your buzz budget you don't have the money left to do the management which makes fires more likely which then takes more of the budget. is that the dynamic that's in place. >> we can't do the management at the scale we need in order to confront the problem. >> that's right. so we really need to be talking about different ways of funding

the fire danger that doesn't eat up the rest of your budget. i met with sec. bill sacca and i can't remember the exact figures, but as as i recall the fire budget is basically eating up everything else. >> we typically spend half of our budget every year just on fire fighting. if you add in other fire cost, it can go north of that. >> i think you said 15 or 20 years ago it was like 15%. >> about a sixth of the budget in 1995. sixteen. now it's over. now it's over half. >> yes. >> i think the point i'm getting at and i think you confirmed is that to the extent that that happens and it crowds out spending on other force management, for example clearing the undergrowth, selective thinking thinning and that kind of thing, that makes fires more likely. >> that's exactly right. and in states like maine where we don't have as much federal land, we are working with your state forrester's to provide help to them so they can work with private landowners and those budget funds are less as well.

>> mdm. chair, that's all i had had. i think this is a very important issue and i know you recognize we are inadvertently making the problem worse by not providing sufficient funds for the management of these plans. thank you. >> thank you senator king and i think the discussion was important to recognize that when you borrow from other accounts to pay for suppression, that doesn't work. it's not sustainable. so making sure that we get the fix right is very important. mr. bonnie, i have multiple questions that i would like you to answer for the record including one that is specific to the issue of an updated

projection for a total suppression and resources needed based on that ten year average. you will see that and again if you can provide responses as quickly as possible to the committee that will be greatly appreciated. i would like to do another round, but we have six more on the second panel that we want to make sure we get to before the noon hour. we will excuse both of you and thank you for appearing before the committee this morning. thank you. >> thank you. [inaudible conversation]

[inaudible conversation] >> has this next panel is finding their seats, go ahead and please, i will introduce each of you to the committee and i will offer apologies on behalf of other colleagues on the committee this morning. they whispered into my ear, i have three different committees that are meeting at the same time this morning. please don't take this as an indication of lack of interest, but you can only be at one place at a time or at least that's what we believe. we would like to welcome the second panel before the committee will lead off with dr. peter goldmark who is the

commissioner of public land, the washington state department of natural resources, it's, it's nice to have you here. he will be followed by ms. julie who is the executive director of the montana wood products association. followed by rebecca humphreys. ms. humphreys is a chief conservation officer at the national wildlife federation. we appreciate you being here this morning. mr. peter nelson is with us, he is the senior policy advisor the defenders of wildlife. welcome. mr. eric nichols is a constituent from the state of alaska. he is a partner at the force product and rounding out our panel is mr. kent who is the director for cal fire. again welcome to each of you. i would ask that you keep your comments to less than five minutes. your full statement will be included as part of the record but again we want to be able to get through everyone's testimony and have an opportunity for a few questions before we have to

include just around noon. dr. goldmark, if you would like to lead us off, thank you for it. >> good morning, chairman makowski and members of the committee, to begin with, i would like to thank the senators for their leadership and dedication to improving response and resources for wildfires. i appreciate the invitation to appear before you today. my name is peter goldmark and i am the commissioner of public lands for the state of washington. elected directly by the people of my state, i am charged with managing and protecting washington's natural resources. for over 150 years, citizens years, citizens of our state have looked eastward for health and partnership from congress on critical issues. today one of those critical issues is wildfire. i appreciate this opportunity. that responsibility that i bear

includes leading our states fire fight against wildfire and overseeing tourist health across all jurisdictions and all ownerships. recently it has been a heavy responsibility to bear. we have lost about 3.5% of washington state to wildfire over the past two catastrophic years. most terrible of all, was the death of three young firefighters who died protecting homes during the twist river fire last august. the impact on our people and the landscape has been horrific to witness and difficult to bring to the halls of olympia or the halls of washington d.c. the damage in danger and trauma to our people. in washington our extreme climatic conditions have created a hotter dryer landscape.

our forests are sick and ripe for wildfire. for too many years investments in forest health, fuel reduction have not kept pace with the amount of risk on the landscape. we know what we need to do to allow washington to remain the evergreen state. we must aggressively treat and manage our forest using fuel reduction treatments and prescribed when appropriate. there is broad community and scientific support for accelerated restoration. i encourage you to adopt the pilot program to achieve the needed faster pace of restoration. we depend on our forest between wildlife habitat, jobs and carbon storage. they are our resource to

conserve and protect, not to squander. since i took office in 2009 i've secured almost $25 million in state investment to build resilient forests, sadly federal investment has not kept up. this legislation under consideration would and the prices of fire borrowing that robs from field treated programs, however it does not address the continued structural erosion of the land management budget by rising fire cost. a different budget formulation that eliminates use of the average suppression cost or at least freeze it freezes it in time is crucial to a wild budget fire policy. failure to fix this problem will trap us in a cycle of more fires. others before me have acknowledged this and you know full well of this problem.

i am speaking of course in support of this draft proposal. including a particular concern to me is credential for firefighters and aircraft must be standardized to ensure rapid response when wildfire threatens. we must expand the use of drones and retardant aircraft to keep fire small. a location tracking system will help keep fire crews safe. expanded use of programs will give communities that knowledge to prepare for wildfire and improve telecommunications infrastructure to help people live in fire prone areas keep track of evacuations and road closures as wildfires threatened. >> i believe we are at a critical moment. these last two wildfire seasons are brutal warning. we must now do the vital work as described in this discussion draft so we can prepare for and

respond to wildlife fire. thank you. >> thank you. we appreciate your considered remark. >> good morning, my name is julia. i'm the executive director of the wood product association and force committee. i would like to thank you for this opportunity to testify today. i would like to thank you on tackling that tough issues facing the forest service. we are committed to finding issues and fire borrowing. we stand ready to work with committee. the montana wood products association represents the wood manufacturing industry in montana. our industry is the manufacturing sector with roughly 319 million payroll.

it's managed by federal agencies. in the last quarter century we have lost 30 mills including two yesterday and roughly 4000 jobs as a direct result of litigation and can declining sales. none of our remaining mills run at full capacity and all rely on a supply of timber. according to data, montana has 557 million wood fiber annually. 500 million cubic feet or 89.9% of annual market mortality of insect and disease. we only harvest about four and a half% of the annual growth and 5% of the mortality each year. that leads to prime buildup of fires for future fire.

we meet opposition by french groups critical of the harvest. the farm bill provided some tools to address these issues. the recent one is very creative in their approach and is moving as expeditiously as possible but to date only one project is pending the decision. with 82 million acres identified by the service high-priority landscape nationally, we feel the new tools and the bill are not enough to address the challenges we face. therefore we apply the communities commitment to solving some of these challenges providing partners for the suite of tools and opportunities to increase the pace of scale and resource management and restoration is one of our top parties. a written statement makes recommendations that we offer the following thought. under title i, we appreciate the budgetary relief provided by this title but would urge you to consider freezing the tenure

average of the 2015 level. expand the use of wildfire risk reduction reduction. this is important for the work in the northern rockies as these landscapes traditionally lack age class diversity. there are 181,000 acres in this region one and 175 of those are in montana alone. under title iii, we are concerned about provisions from the use of critical habitat. montana has 3.6 million designated acres within this base. much. much of which is susceptible to catastrophic fire and it important to add these to the mix. the need to treat fuels is the same. communities surrounded by forest experience low-frequency and low intensity wildfire at the same risk. the three things that drive wildfire, fuel, typography typography and whether the only one we can modify is fuel. the provisions do not address

legal challenges affecting project implementation. we have suffered the effects for decades. in order to break the gridlock, local people have gathered to find solutions to tough issues. over the years 30 collaboratives have form. are working together for agreement that includes restoring. groups continue to challenge groups in court. there are 220 million in litigation, 45 million under notice of intent to sue and others under objection. this will impact 51000 acres. litigation affects 44000 truckloads and thousands of jobs. montana wood product association suggests more reforms are needed and i'm almost at a time so i will be happy to enter a written

statement for further discussion in closing we want to thank you for all your efforts in bringing this direct discussion to us and we know the forest service is working hard to solve these problems but they do need your help. thank you. >> thank you. we appreciate the specifics you have offered the committee. ms. humphrey, welcome. >> my name is becky humphrey. i am the chief conservation officer for the wild turkey federation. in a prior life i was the agency director in the state of michigan that oversaw the management of a 4 million-acre for system. we try to bring while tricky back to original habitat in this country but we now have transition to save the habitat save the hunt.

we have state chapters in every state and we also have a team of biologists and foresters who work on the landscape. we had one of the first agreements in a formal partnership with the forest service that was signed in 1986 and continues today. we have delivered thousands of projects across the united states. we are leadership in stewardship contracting and even though we don't have a mill or do anything with the wood products, through stewardship contracting we are consistently listed as one of the top ten timber buyers in the country. a few years ago we were number five. we strongly support the discussion draft we have before us. we appreciate the committees considering both a fix to the fire problem and we must expose both the foregoing to be successful. we applaud active management. wildlife biologist no that

diversity is the key to really good wildlife habitat out there. wildlife takes food, water, shelter and space in order to live. active management creates that diversity on that landscape. lack of proper management as a result of species decline and in the eastern united states, 59% of the bird species depend on that and it has declined. we have species that are candidate for the endangered species act. others that were very prevalent has disappeared in the wild turkey population is declining. a keystone species that is found in the savannas really represent 360 other wildlife species of the landscape that is needed by the habitat. in. in the western u.s. we see similar situations where we manage for old growth and we may benefit only 14 species but

while there are over 70 species that are dependent on those young forest types we need to do more for those species. the u.s. forest service allocates funding and guidance to provide such young habitat but fire borrowing as we have heard today preclude us from getting that work done. the pace of creating young forest needs to increase if we're going to be successful. we appreciate the proposed fire borrowing fix. as we look at the fire system on budget you have heard today, over over 50% is going into fire suppression efforts. there are real consequences to this. when i look at some of the fire systems where the fire activities that have occurred, we have seen over 60% on some of our fire areas that are most fire prone and those have

severely hampered our efforts. the ten-year average is outlined in the bill as an improvement for sure, but we really need to phrase it, as we've talked about so we don't continue to erode the money that is available to do active management. we request the committee consider using as a benchmark the ten-year average and freeze it at that amount. we acknowledge the jurisdiction of the budget committee and we ask you to move forward and work with them on trying to find a resolution to that. we strongly support collaboratives in the provisions of those in action, no action. we think that can affect management capabilities on wildlife and the national wild turkey federation partners with every state wildlife agency across the state in that state cooperation is really important. we think it will enhance that. we support collaboratives that qualify for expedited need for review, restricting alternatives alternatives reduces the overhead and it helps break some of the gridlock and paralysis that we see in our system. management needs to be returned

to the professionals. in moving forward on a couple items, we strongly support the pine forest and what we can do to help move that forward, we think that's good. also the national forest, we think it's reasonable and prudent to do that inventory. we don't want to slow down that process but we do think maintaining our markets in the local economy is very important. overall, we strongly applaud your efforts to move this forward. thank you. >> thank you miss humphrey's'. mr. nelson, welcome. >> thank you. my name is pete nelson and i am a senior policy advisor at the department of wildlife where i manager while life policy program. thank you for inviting my testimony today. i have been professionally involved in national forest science and management for nearly 20 years.

i'm a member of the federal advisory committee overseeing implementation of the forest 2012 planning role and i'm also a member of the collaborative working group in southwest montana. we are in a new era of wildfire. a warming fire is drying out for us and leading to more larger wildfires. a longer fire season as well. look at california and new mexico today. however, existing policies are not adapted to this new reality. wildfire budget is a prime example. the current budget structure is not capable of responding to today's wildfires and it's caused spiral out of control and it consumes the very programs that are essential to sustaining communities and forest over the long term. without a comprehensive fix to that problem, anything else else we try will be futile. we also need to make our forest more resilient to wildfire. a failure to do so risks losing all the value they provide. while we appreciate improved planning for at-risk

communities, wildfire risk mapping, privatization within the interface and other management provisions in the discussion draft, they do not work and they in fact do more harm than good. you can't solve today's problems with yesterday's thinking. proposals to bypass and undermine judicial review are outdated and ineffective. we need innovative approaches to forest restoration. producing defensible restoration projects requires smarter, not less analysis. we simply can't legislate our way to good decisions. shortcuts are not likely to yield better outcomes on the ground. they may make uninformed decisions and we can afford taking that risk for the sake of expediency. meddling is also divisive. a letter submitted to this midi

by dozens of organizations, many of which are involved in collaborative restoration highlights opposition to the discussion draft and is the controversial nature of some of the management provisions. such shortcuts can undermined activities. i'm concerned that if we raise the level, we make the entire public management system less resistant and diminish opportunities for communities and for us. we need to build an an approach that is it tapped a bowl to today's complex challenges. as someone who has been involved, i don't think a knee but program, i see a capacity and restoration problem and we need the resources and funding to improve conditions and achieve efficiencies. the success of the project in arizona demonstrates that large programs can be accomplished

under existing authorities. other standout examples of this approach include the bluemountain project in oregon and the landscape project in montana. the proposed pilot program reflects this new resiliency thinking. it makes sense to prioritize restoration in a forest where we have a good understanding of restoration needs, science and practices. it also makes us prioritize risk reduction in the right places. unfortunately the pilot program goes down the wrong road in its use of emergency circumstances for framework. it authorizes the designation of pre-emergent zones where the normal rules don't apply. this may be unworkable. first we don't think the scheme could be effectively applied because we don't have the scientific ability to predict where or when the next big wildfire will occur. in addition, while while we

agree that grave risk to public safety, nonresponse to other decision don't justify. we also oppose the inclusion of the unrelated provision in a wildfire bill. the provision blocks over logging. it is inappropriate for congress to upset a planning process with more than 165,000 organizations have participated in. they have the authority to proceed with the amendment and now is the time for transition. thank you. >> mr. nichols, welcome. >> thank you for the opportunity to speak today. i've spent the last 40 years on the private side of the timber industry. twenty-five of those years have been in alaska and 14 years as owner of timber companies in alaska buying and selling.

it's on the verge of going away due to lack of supply. all federal and state timber bills are being delayed with litigation and appeals by environmental groups opposed to all timber harvesting. the communities of southeast alaska and even some conservation groups also they wanted timber industry. the problem is you cannot have a viable industry without a land base for growing and harvesting timber. prior to 1976, 5 million acres were managed for timber. by 198080 this was reduced to 3 million acres. the 2000 plan reduced it to even more. now the new plan will take it down to 251,000 acres. i was told by a conservation person that we do not have the timber available today because we cut it all.

there are 16.8 million acres in the tongass. commercial grade commercial grade forest made up 3.6 million acres. 420,000 acres have been previously harvested. i think my math is pretty correct that we have three-point to million acres of old-growth timber remaining. the plan will restrict the industry to 261,000 acres of young growth and a small volume for other markets. this is 7% of the commercial timber acres and a little over 1% of the tonga national forest. the forest service service in the state of alaska has done a good job protecting our tourism. we have over 1 million people per year coming and our salmon runs are strong with the fishing industry doing very well. we have no endangered species on the forest. we have a timber industry with one small sawmill, for harvesting companies left in a handful of micro sawmills.

our communities are not doing well. twenty-two of the 32 communities in southeast alaska has lost population. the plan amendment will forever change the timber industry in the southeast. once it is in place and never gets better for the industry, only more restrictions us time go forward so it cannot be undone. the plan has to work or there will be no timber industry. to have a viable timber industry we have to have a supply of economically viable timber sales. it's pretty simple but not when you have a rugged remote area with high cost. my issue with the forest service is that they don't not know how many thousands of acres we can harvest economically or legally. we'll look at the tongass, we look at the fall down acres.

with 250,000 acres we have changing regulations from when this was cut originally. we originally. we lose lands to visual constraints. additional protection for wildlife and we are going to fall into the economic viability, patches of timber suppressed with high road cost. my fear is we will see significant number of acres to fall down. my fear is the timber industry cannot be feasible with this amendment so we need to rerun the model and see how much actual sustainable economic timber will be available. i would like to finish my testimony with the word from president theodore roosevelt who thought signed into legislation. this is what he had to say about force policy. you can never afford to forget

for a moment what is the object of a force policy. that is not to preserve the forest because they are beautiful though that is good in itself, nor because it is refuge for the wildlife creatures though that is in good of itself but the primary objective of our force policy as a lamb policy of the united states is the making of prosperous homes. government legislation, rulemaking and administration no longer resembles with these national laws were created for and set aside by management of the government. our land management is broken and not serving the people well. it has to be fixed by management and not politics. think every time. >> thank you mr. nichols we appreciate it and appreciate you traveling a long way. >> thank you. thank you for the opportunity to testify today. not only on behalf of california

but my peers around the country through the national association of state forrester's. as california chief, we are responsible for 30 million acres of wild land within the state. that's about one third of the land base in california. we know there is significant fire challenges going on in the state right now. it's no different across the west and the rest of the country statistics indicate that 80% of the fires fell within state and private lands in the state fourth street agency. it plays a significant and key role in dealing with fire and for history issue. i think the committee has a clear handle on the fire and resource management challenges in the country. that has been clearly indicated this morning.

again, i will just emphasize that in california, a fire a fire problem in forest management problem is real. as i speak we have five major fires burning in the state, 4600 firefighters on the far line. just in the last week we've responded to over 250 fires and that's 2000 fires fires just since january 1. we are still within a significant drought which has gone on for the last five years and like we talked about earlier in this hearing, record fires that we talked about in washington state, we've seen in colorado, california just last year had two of the top ten most damaging fires in the states history. the fire challenge in the fire problem is only getting worse. it's not just drought. changing climate, unmanaged or under managed forest throughout the state, both on federal and private lands are significantly contributing to the challenges that we are facing. when fires burn, 20000 acres in

just five hours, those are the conditions that we are facing and we will continue to face as we go into another potentially disastrous fire season. in california this is exemplified by significant tree mortality. sec. bill sack announced yesterday that over 66 million trees in the central and southern sierra have now succumb to epidemic levels of insect mortality. we have seen this throughout the west in a number of western states and now california has taken that challenge exponentially with multiple counties declaring localized or county level disasters and in october of last year governor brown declared a statewide emergency proclamation to deal with this disaster. we are looking at this and collaborating through multiple means trying to address immediate life safety threats

but it's involving partners at all level of government. using tools such as the good neighbor authority under the farm bill to allow us to reach across boundaries and collaborate and get the biggest bang for the buck and leverage everything that we have to get the most work done and to make the biggest difference that we can. fixing wildfire funding is key to all of this as undersecretary bonnie indicated this morning, we continue to borrow money from other program areas that are critical to getting ahead of the problem. we must maintain a robust response capability across this country, we can't underfund our federal agencies on the front-end. we must ensure strong response on the backend and they continued only take money from going to other programs and we will only continue to perpetuate lack of good forest management and lack of reducing fuels and continued fires like we are

seeing right now. discussion through this legislation, right now california has over 125,000 acres of ready projects in just three impacted for us. we need the ability to leverage additional funding to get more work done in those areas. we would certainly like to go forward and look at opportunities working through the process to see if we can't do more work and work through them to get more work done and have the capacity to do just that. looking at the pilot, it is critical. much of the area being impacted in california are the mixed conifer forest. a significant component of that are ponderosa pines. we welcome the opportunity to look at a pilot program that addresses that. fire risk mapping is also critical. we've worked with the state in addressing and using that

information to develop hazard maps and identify land-use plans and potential. we certainly look at the opportunity to work together on that. lastly i will close with recognizing that fires know no boundaries. as organizations and first responders, we should know that we have no boundaries. california learned that a long time ago when we had separate communication frequencies and separate terminology and we weren't working together. it's very true working together on joint process to look at processes and criteria that are agreed to by all agencies when we are sharing the resources across boundaries. thank you. >> thank you. again thank you to each of you for your contribution before the committee today. i will yield first to senator daines. >> thank you. julia and peter, welcome. it's good to have you both here.

julia, i want to echo your testimony by having unending litigation and regulations in the wood products workforce, my earlier comment regarding this devastating news really illustrates what's going on in montana. your observation that we are harvesting only 5% of dead trees and four and a half% of the annual growth is startling. especially considering that nearly 7 million federally controlled acres in montana are at high-risk for wildfires. my question is, could you elaborate on how increasing active management is critical to both protecting jobs and importantly reducing catastrophic wildfires in montana and many parts of the west. >> thank you for that question. i would be happy to address it. increasing management in the region one, specifically in

montana, the economic analysis for this is usually 11 jobs created for 1 million that is harvested. now you can just multiply that by the board fees that are already sitting there. it would impact hundreds of jobs. we are usually short 60 - 80000000 per year. just increasing at 60 - 80 we would raise the capacity of the remaining bill mills to 100%. right. right now they are running at 50%. it's not a lot that we need, but it's critical that that raises critical. that addresses the economics but as far as getting up at 7 million acres of the dead and dying, it will continue to grow and it will continue to burn and

we will continue to eat up a majority of the fire budget if we don't look at those issues. >> you've looked at the discussion draft, what provisions do you believe would be most helpful in accelerating management and creating the jobs including habitat, we work with a lot of conservation and others that are pushing for these kind of provisions. what you think is most helpful? >> thank you. well again, impediments to success our capacity of the forest service. they are under title i as far as the fire borrowing goes. if there was additional money spent and fair money that we could put back into fuel reduction projects that would be very helpful. that's number one under title iii. some of the provisions, i believe it's important and it works. :