have hot off the press, the reading ego, a well-regarded newspaper in pennsylvania just looked at pennsylvania since 1978 and found that they've only executed three people pennsylvania in all this time and it cost 272 million for each execution. the execution. the three together cost $816 million. that's three people over a time period of 1978 until today. a lot of people, no matter how they feel about the death penalty would look at that and say that is really not a great expenditure of government money when we have schools that need funding, when we have so many other things that we could be spending that money on. quite frankly just in the criminal justice system, i see people people in all kinds of cases getting the same kind of representation i describe in

capital cases. we spend a huge a amount of money allowing these cases that could be spent to make sure were not convicting innocent people in other kinds of cases as opposed to really devote such a huge amount of money. there's also a california study that said between 1978 - 8 - 2011 california spent $4 billion on its death penalty. it doesn't execute hardly anyone. the last one was 2006. that's why i thought a measure would pass last time. >> even if you're for the death penalty, it's hard to comprehend and defend that. >> we look at it we say there so many other things we could be spending money on than these cases. >> steve do those figures offer a false comparison because as you said every state that has

the death penalty also has a life without parole statute. so it's not as if were talking about death penalty or letting these people on the street, were were talking about death penalty or being in prison for the rest of one's life. some of those costs that were currently incurring with the death penalty would be transferred over to fighting the life without parole cost. is that correct? >> nowhere near the enormity of the death cases. if you're doing it right you have a number of lawyers on the cases and you're doing a life history of the client. you go through some of those things but the da, the prosecutor does not have to seek the death penalty. those cases are tried pretty much like other criminal cases.

they go to trial but there's no penalty phase which is a big part in capital cases. >> this might be counterintuitive but is there an argument because we do spend a lot of resources on the death penalty cases that if we got rid of it we might actually have less justice rather than more because society will allocate those resources to the tough cases and not fight the life without parole cases as much? >> that's a tough question. one of the ironies that i see in the states that have ponied up and paid the money to do the cases right, if someone does some terrible crime and they get all these lawyers and social workers and investigators and then you have somebody charged with armed our robbery, he may have a lawyer who is caring 150 cases. as an investigator for all 150 cases.

there's no doubt that some are getting much better representation but i think we can take those resources and put it into that armed robbery case so that has a cocounsel and an investigator we can do a better job at the most fundamental job that they have which is separating the guilty from the innocent and we are failing at that currently. >> you could argue on one hand it would be more people sentenced to prison but on the other hand, i've i've heard a lot of prosecutors to allow for mediation. they say we don't have enough manpower to identify which cases this would be appropriate or to identify where someone has substance abuse or mental illness should be diverted so they just flee out before we

screen someone to see if they should be in the criminal justice system. the lawyer in milwaukee argues having more resources that can determine what would be more appropriate. >> pfizer has announced it is going to block access to its drugs for the lethal injection protocol. they were following what some other companies had done. has i understand it five states that have the death penalty, their processes are on hold. all the courts are reviewing the lethal injection protocol. can we expect that to be a significant strain on the death penalty in the future? >> i think soper they brought back the firing squad which they last had a 1977. i thought --dash a person can

choose which method they want. i think the other issue is the state attorney generals are issuing and exempting all of this from open record. you can not get a freedom of information act on these cases. everyone's on oklahoma what happened where this man was literally withering on the vine in pain. i don't blame these european drug companies from being worried that they can be sued. i think now everything is to shield everything from public view. >> i think a tactic you see a lot, we have a lot all these problems with drugs and people who carried out who don't know

what they're doing, all all of the so the answer has not been to fix anything, it was to make it all secret so nobody knows what's going on so we can't bring a lawsuit to say wait a minute the drugs you are using are not reliable for bringing about a person death and the people who are doing this really shouldn't be doing it. we don't know any of that anymore. it's all secret. the federal court, the state courts, much to much to my disappointment have allowed it to remain secret so were all in the dark. the other thing, on the firing squad for a moment, i tend to agree with the judge on the circuit who said were kidding ourselves by trying to pretend killing human beings is like a medical procedure. medical procedures are about healing people. they heal people in the use

drugs to heal people. they don't use them to kill people. we show that were sanitizing the execution somehow by having lethal injection is doomed to failure. he said bring back the firing squad. we have people who are trained as sharp shooters. city guy in a chair have six people all shoot at him at the same time at his heart, it's quick and painless and you don't have any of the problems that we've had, we've had lots of problems with lethal injection, lots of problems of people not dying and flopping around forever before they died in all sorts of things like that. back to the drug companies for a minute. if we went to the firing squad, that would be the end of the death penalty. utah is the only state that has carried out for firing squad executions in 1977. no other state does it.

even when utah does it, but he gets upset about it. they make a point. if were going to kill people, let's pony up to what were doing. let's face what were doing. we are killing people. let's not pretend that were putting them to sleep or whatever. no drug company now will give the department of corrections the drug to carry out evil injection. so whatever but he has gone to are these compounding pharmacies which a judge on the eighth circuit said maybe nothing more than a high school chemistry class in terms of how well the run. these compounding pharmacies where they mix it up for you and they give it to you and you get your emts were probably the one checking out the execution and that's but a much what were going to. they don't regulate compounding pharmacy so you have problems there. in georgia we were just getting ready to execute a woman when

suddenly somebody noticed that the drugs were cloudy and there was some sort of mold in the drug. wait a minute, maybe we shouldn't execute her because these drugs appeared to be contaminated. then in oklahoma which can't get anything right, they thought they had the right drug and they discovered about four hours before the execution they had the wrong drug. instead of having the drug they thought they had, the compound pharmacy had supplied them with a different drug which would've been a disaster because it would've killed him. you have to remember, on the ground where this is happening, we are not dealing with the very best medical people doing these things. a lot of doctors won't have anything to deal with it because it violates their oath so we end up using ents emts and

compounding pharmacies and things like that and it's all done in secret. the bad deal in my opinion. in georgia we were about to kill a man, the 12 person killed in the past two years, all those executions have gone off, they been able to pull it off. none of them went terribly wrong like the one in oklahoma where they tried to kill him and he didn't die and he just kept flopping around and calling out. >> what is going on with the secrecy around the carrying out of the punishment? that's different. a book that i never thought i would praise, the whole book is basically about how executions

were in the town square and they were spectacles for everyone to come and see. prisons were in the center of cities and kind of a warning to people. but now we do these executions at midnight local time wherever they are in the access to what is happening is not classified but somehow made secret. what's accounting for that trend is it just the government's fear of being embarrassed? >> i think there's fear if correction officials or whoever some drug company was selling them the formula that they could be the target of vigilantism or whatever. it's about principles whether you are conservative or liberal and if we should have transparency in the operations of our government. i think it gets very worry some

we see laws being passed from exempting information requests. it's a broader issue with prisons being out of sight out of mind. in texas there almost all in rule areas and most people have no idea what the conditions are which by the way, our prisons prisons are our air-conditioned imprisoned texas. it's tending to go by the wayside in one way or another but we need to focus on solitary confinement, 30 square feet, no daylight, really horrendous conditions that these individuals are confined to. we are going to be struggling with the public saying okay you got rid of the death penalty, i want that person to be miserable. >> it's a couple of things, when

we adopted the death penalty or went back to the death penalty in 1976 they declared unconstitutional in 1972. there were all these problems with it and they thought by tinkering with the statutes a little bit that by 1976 hello yuliya everything's great it will be fair consistent and all that. it's remarkable arrogance to think that because the problem is racism, poverty, they weren't tinkering with the statutes, that didn't do any good at all. it's just. it's just the same today as it was back in the old days except some crimes you don't get the death penalty four. the debate was to have the death penalty for the timothy mcveigh, that's who were to have the death penalty for but if you look at who's on death row, first of all you see tremendous racial disparity. african-americans are the victims of of well over 50% on

death row. many of those are kids who went in to a 711 and tried to hold it up and 70 was killed. that's terrible. you gotta lock those people up but those are not death penalty cases. those are not the worst of the worst of the most heinous crimes that are being committed. most of the people and now, i just heard the other day we both have clients who are profoundly mentally ill and i mean pro finally like out of touch reality, you can't carry a conversation, these people are not going to take the plea when they can have it because they can't make decisions and they can't make judgments because they're so intellectually limited and i have a client whose accommodation of paranoid schizophrenic and intellectually limited so everyone, these are

the people getting the death penalty, not because of the crimes they committed but because they don't understand it take the plea. but the guy who left the abortion clinic in set off a bomb at the olympics in atlanta, the worst of all, not the worst but i don't know how you characterize the green river killer in washington who basically prayed at location killed 78 bodies they killed over a hundred people. finally he plea bargained. he was far enough to do that. so he avoids the death penalty in so many of the people who have committed, guy who comes into the courtroom and shot the judge in court reporter, feeding

get the death penalty. >> the getaway driver didn't necessarily sign up for murder but he potentially could be executed under the felony murder rule. >> is that the role that says if a felony is carried out and someone dies, even if you have nothing to do with it it's now murder and you can be tagged with it as the getaway driver. >> i think that's very problem maddock. that is a pushback for folks as it relates to environmental things and so forth. we don't discuss how this comes up in the sentencing stage for whether it's murder or other

crimes, things we all agree should be crimes but it ought to be that you can't the death penalty for felony murder even if you have the death penalty because you didn't have the intent to kill someone. the way it works is to take it one step further is very often the person who was at the center of the action wins the race to the courthouse and get the plea bargain for life sentence to testify against the others who were not nearly as centrally involved but there's not very strong evidence on them. there is another example of a love triangle. she and her boyfriend decided to kill her husband. the boyfriend is the one who took the husband out stabbed him and had blood all over him. they had a locked case against him.

to make the case against her they had to give him the plea deal. he's eligible for parole. she didn't take the deal. she wasn't anywhere near it. she was involved and she certainly should go to prison for the moment that she had bring about the death of her husband, but she's the one that was tied down and put down by the state of georgia very long ago. >> that's another tricky thing with plea-bargaining which is 95 - 97 cases result in plea bargain. in most capital cases, i would say the two most important decision, one by the prosecutor do we seek the death penalty and most don't. most prosecutors. [inaudible] but others will seek at every opportunity they get. and then the second is do you plea bargain the case. a majority of these cases will be resolved with plea bargain.

they're going to go to trial. so the we sentenced to death ends up to be very much a random matter of geography, race, poverty, all of those sorts of things and not a very principled distinction to say this is the person who has offended us most grievously and if anybody who deserves that this is the person who gets it. that's not what we do. >> let's make this a little less abstract. these are systematic concerns but i'm sure you had circumstances in your own life which are involved in a case but for the victims of that crime, it is. they feel that way and obviously in certain cases you have intellectual disability but in some cases you don't. are you ever approached by the victims family.

a lot of times they will be telling the victim's family, look very her son, get this case over with and go on with your life. there's no closure. watching and execution is not going to help. the other thing is it's only .01% of cases that have been the death penalty. it's a little bit of a fraud to say you're going to watch this man be executed in a few years because that's really not happening except in texas may be >> there have been cases that are really not going to be death

penalty cases but who quite understandably, if i could could strangle that guy to death with my bare hands i would do it but ultimately i think society has to make the decision about whether this person has offended so much that were going to eliminate them from human community community. that's an enormous decision and probably not a very good one made by people. honestly the people who are directly affected by it, the family are not terribly objective when it comes to making that decision. you'd be surprised how many people i've gotten to know and liked and had dinner at their house and all that who were victims of someone my client killed. it does draw things out in terms of an appeal that it's going to

keep going on for many years. >> okay, we only have about ten minutes left for questions. we have a microphone and i see laura has a question. >> what an extraordinary panel. my question is, is it possible that the death penalty in this country might go the way of marriage equality where there is still huge opposition to marriage equality but the conventional wisdom now is that it is something even john mccain supports marriage equality. especially where we have places like in illinois where the governor put us day on all executions in nebraska, new jersey, california might go this way, is it, is it possible? if it is, what would be the route to the u.s. supreme court of a case to actually strike down the death penalty in this

country? >> well, i don't mean to throw cold water on the first point but a lot of people are talking about marriage equality and how this can be like marriage equality. i think the differences that everybody has learned over time their nephew or their own children, people that they knew were gay. they were just like every body else. very few people have someone on death row in their family. the people i, i tell my students, the cases we will study our cases that we are all going to be crying because this is going to be some of the most god-awful stuff you have ever seen. i cannot believe that human beings can do things like this other people. that makes it very hard politically there. i think the support is still 60

or 70% support for the death penalty. you actually down with 12 jurors and decide to put somebody to death. that's why think the decline is so significant as the 12 people who sit there, talk radio will say all the arms and legs of the teddy bear and that's ridiculous you go to any parents house and go to the child's crib and start pulling the arms and legs off the teddy bear and i can tell won't be there very long. it's not that it excuses it or explains it or anything at all except that again when were measuring is this person so beyond redemption that we will eliminate them from the human community you can say no this person was irresponsible were not going to forgive them but

when it comes to punishment and we have all these punishments, we might decide that punishment is less. i think as the numbers go down will have it only in the open federer say. those dates are going to hold out the longest. it will just be that they are five states that have the death penalty. >> the supreme court, nobody knows is nobody knows who will be on the supreme court in a few years but once we find out, the supreme court come back and say a penalty that is use this rarely is really cruel and unusual. it's kind of the same way that people say with marriage

equality it was genie out of the bottle and people with traditional marriages didn't find that their marriage was made less valuable. so i think, i agree with what you said that this doesn't touch people in the same way because for a whole host of reasons but on the other hand maybe there is a similar entity sense that once it's abolished it's not like millet millions of people are saying we miss the death penalty. so i think the path would simply be the whole issue of unusual punishment. what's cruel and unusual is what's cruel and unusual at the time it was written. the evolving standards of decency which is where the majority of the court is these days.

they look to where most of the states and executions are highly relevant to what our evolving standards of decency which certainly is why a lot of originalists complain because their subjectivity in making these evaluation. >> there's a matter of process, i think it does mirror the marriage equality in that you have two basic groups to get rid of the death penalty, you have to to get rid of the prohibition on same-sex marriage, you have legislative action and you have a judicial one. i agree, i think the political route is more difficult in the capital punishment arena. it's not impossible, there's been some successes with no backsliding when they did abolish the death penalty but it's harder to imagine. i do think the courts are place where we will see action and i believe that the current u.s. supreme court will be a vote to get rid of the death penalty.

that is my view. i think justice kennedy has a very heartfelt view about decency. they do have special expertise in this area. they know how the system is being implemented. often this winds up at the supreme court before the execution is filed. they're seeing this day in and day out. that's why i think you see many of the justices toward the end of their life, regardless of what political party appointed them to have feelings against the death penalty. there are four justices that were appointed by democratic president to i think would be pretty tall votes to get rid of the death penalty and i think justice kennedy, that's even apart from judge garland and

there's all sorts of questions about judge garland who was one of the prosecutors in the oklahoma oklahoma city bombing cases which is one of the very few of the federal executions carried out but timothy mcveigh is one of them. we will see that, but it is my view that the cases should be brought to the court under the eighth amendment strategy. >> i think the death penalty is a very damaged brand as people say today. i think a lot of people realize that. i also think everybody thinks the death penalty will be gone in a few years. everybody thinks it's inevitable. nobody really says were going to expand the death penalty. how did we get there? i think when these committees look at the cost and the time and all that may decide to propose let's abolish the death penalty, i think it's not that there's grounds for support but there's not a lot of opposition like there would've been in the

'90s. you would've been gone. your political career would have been over. today i think that is seen as cleaning up the government to some extent. >> other questions? although in the back in the black. what are your thoughts about putting money into rehabilitation, like in europe and removing the death sentences and life sentences? >> so i took this to her of prisons in germany and it was really striking that even those who met the most serious offenses, the maximum you would get would be 15 years. however they do have something called preventive detention. it could be used for violent offenders and it's more broad as to who it will be up by two. the concern among all of us,

would it really be used sparingly : a. >> we have one minute for one last question. >> my question is this. do you see in the future where there may be a lesson for maybe

changing direction, abolishing -- and everyone having the possibility? >> you get the death penalty for this as indicated everybody. the prosecutors often, they are afraid if you had it and you the death penalty. i would say until the death penalty is gone we're not going to see life without parole. it's terrible because now we're getting all these people life imprisonment without parole and no hope whatsoever. my friends are wardens say don't send me some kid with life without parole. no incentive to behave himself. no incentive to make and sell better, to do anything. this is not good direction policy. there's got to be simple.

so many of these folks are so yelling. 18, 19, 20 year old. to say to a 20 year old you're going to die in this institution, that's incredibly cruel. but i don't see the course do anything. as long as we have the death penalty because i think the way in which ultimately we will get rid of the death penalty is because you can have life without patrol. sadly but that is true. >> okay. with that, fabulous discussion. [applause] >> today kicks off republican national committee taking place in cleveland, ohio. the first session underway like first session underway by the plan pmd star first session underway like the pointy eastern. the theme for today is make america safe again with a focus on ways to strengthen the military, secure the border and support law enforcement. senators john ernst and representative rhymes think i'm others will be speaking.

you can watch live coverage on c-span, listen on the c-span great app and get video on demand at c-span.org. later remarks one of today's convention speakers, arkansas senator tom cotton who was being interviewed today by steve clemons. that's live at 2 p.m. eastern right here on c-span2. >> tonight on "the communicators" speed is all we're doing is allowing the customers of these functions, the number of registries, the name registries and registrars to now contract directly with itn to get the service they need. >> larry strickling discusses plans for the is to get oversight of internet governance to international stakeholder group in late september. the plan is generated opposition from some republican senators. is interviewed by senior editor for telecommunications report. >> the folks that want to protect internet freedom

everything all of us do whether you are a democrat or republican, whether you're the administration or in congress we all have as our goal. people need to understand we might actually seriously hurt internet freedom if we reneg red on a commitment to complete this transaction or transition into completed now that the community has said they are ready for it. >> watch tonight at eight eastern on c-span2. >> this week on q&a, former deputy inspect with the new york city police department. he discusses his book "once a cop." >> corey pegues, your book is called "once a cop." what is it about?

>> it's a memoir, my life story detailed up and threw me retiring as a police officer your. >> host: when did you retire? >> guest: march 2013. officially retired i was injured september 2011 so i was out of work for like a year and after almost two years. i had two back surgeries based on injury or i was injured at work while trying to arrest someone. myself and my driver i popped the disc in my back. >> host: what was your rank in the review a policeman speak was at the time of my entry i was a commanding officer of the 67th precinct of my rank was deputy inspect which is an executive position of nypd. >> host: let me show you some video of george h. to the bush when he was president in 1991 and get you to talk about this moment because you talk about in your book.

>> this is crack cocaine seized a few days ago by drug enforcement agents in a park just across the street from the white house. it could easily have been heroin or pcp. if this innocent looking as candy but it's turning our cities into battle zones and it's murdering our children. let there be no mistake. this stuff is poison. >> host: use it in your book almost right away useful but that stuff. y.? >> guest: because i was coming you know, inviolate i grew up in. i grew up with gangs, drug dealers. i was in a family of six, five girls and myself at my father left us after the third grade. is ironic in my book "once a cop" either picture of me in the fifth grade and sitting indian style in the front and i'm holding my seat because of holes in the bottom of my shoes.

i had cardboard instance of my socks wouldn't get wet. i had a rough upbringing. and i got involved in the streets. in the streets are a mess in front of him selling drugs but it was like the thing to do and a store selling drugs. we started selling marijuana. we sold cocaine, and crack cocaine came out and we started selling that. i was industries from age 13 to 18, five years. >> host: what's the difference between cocaine and crack cocaine? >> guest: crack cocaine is cooked in the rock form. >> host: what is mescaline transfer it's a deal, a little tiny pill that people take, put under the tongue. back then i don't even know if that stuff was still around but the use to do that back then. >> host: what is a lucy? >> guest: a lucy is what unlike eric garner got killed for out in staten island. he got killed for buying lucy's, blue cigarettes. the origin of lucy's when we are

in the street was a loose a joint. instead of selling like a nickel bag or a dime bag of weed and af to roll them up yourself, we did the rolling for you and we would sell you a loose joint for 1 dollar. >> host: what is a woolly? >> guest: it was just a loose joint, a marijuana joint laced with cocaine, sprinkle a little bit of it in. you got the high, you got the low. >> host: who was smoothed? >> guest: smooth was a very good friend of mine who i grew up with any i should introduce the to the streets. but i want to think about him didn't really have to. he had a two family home, mom worked for the telephone company. dad worked for the post office. house, car, white picket fence. just because environment that we grew up in the was a lot of people involved in the street

and he just gravitated towards the streets and he brought me in on the whole drug gang. i start hanging out with them. >> host: why did you want to write the book? >> guest: i'm glad you asked the question. do you know what, the real reason i bought this book for is for generations of behind him my kids, grandkids and great candidate i wanted them to know his life decimation that i made. then it morphed into this book that i had to write and tell my story because i was put on the front page of a newspaper in new york city and they're really like took some shots at my personality, my demeanor, my character. they try to vilify me by calling the a-bomb topic so i had to tell my story. the back story as i wrote my own book at a stop to walking across the stage gradually. it's like all the stuff i did in the street i was born, in the streets on trucks. i went to the military

undergraduate and became a cop and was over. that was the end of my book until the newspaper hit and then had to go through my like entire police career just so that i could lessen some of the stuff that was put out about me that was all lies. >> host: here is the front page of that "new york post" and it says i don't crack as a gangster, nypd honcho reveals. call you a thug cop. when you saw that what was your reaction and what happened as a result of this and how did it happen? >> guest: it happened, my reaction to that, i wasn't happy about it because i never was a thug cop. i did sell crack when i was out in the street or i don't know if i want to consider myself a gangster against it is like a john gotti. i was not out murdering people. i was a street hustler, sold some drugs so i was a criminal. it was a bad for my family. my family had to endure that wake up in the morning.

there's a picture of me with the president of the united states in the book, maybe the future president president hillary clinton, you know, michael bloomberg, ll cool j. i had such a fantastic life after those five years and i was knitting on the front cover, it took all of that away and it wasn't an easy time for my family. i knew that i was never a thug cop. the nypd has a federal probe going on now where there's going to be numerous executives locked up. probably some lower range people. those a thug cop's. i never committed a crime as a come. i was probably the cleanest cop for 21 years and the reason being i thought that there always look at me because of my past because of the week i came to work address because of my tattoos and stuff like that. i was so clean i thought it was a set of. >> host: come back, let's go through some brief outline of your life. you were born what you are and where? >> guest: 1968 in queens,

hospital that is close, mary immaculate hospital of. >> host: where did you go to school? >> guest: in jamaica queens. i went to ps 36. i lived in third grade. actually get kicked out for pushing girls down the stairs, playfully pushed a girl and all the girls fell down the stairs. i got busted a junior high school 158 and i went to newtown high school for engineering program and invited some of my friends, some of my crack friends to come see me play basketball and they have a right and beat everybody out of the game. i get kicked out and what one of the worst schools, and the jackson high school and ended up graduating from andrew jackson. >> host: what year? >> guest: 1987. >> host: what years were you selling drugs? >> guest: from about 84-85. i left in 87. >> host: after high school and after 87 what happened to you, where did you go? >> guest: the u.s. army.

three years and eight months. reason i did love that long, because iraq, the world one in 30 days. my enlistment was up t to george bush was a president abbas at the the time to extend everybody plan to stay a few more months. >> were you i can undo the? >> guest: yes then what the national guard of? >> guest: 14 years. combine 18 years of u.s. military service. tram that takes up to what year, 92, 93? >> guest: yes, march 92. actually marched i do what i got out of the military, january 90 to over to the police academy. >> host: when did you become a policeman? >> guest: january 13, 1992. >> host: how long did you serve as an active duty new york police, policeman and we will talk about what happened during your promotion and all that. >> guest: 21 years as a new

york city police officer tried what i want to show video of you on the street corner talking about well used to sell drugs just so people can get a sense of what it was like. >> this is my spot right here. i spent countless hours here 12, ma 24, 48. this is where the drug trade was all day everyday. there was nothing to do but to sell drugs. it was cool, almost like a cool thing to do. we had this whole park with supreme king. like i had this area here. i would have this area. supreme king, although the to a different color caps on their crack cocaine. i might have the blue caps so i would do. if you wanted to unique them over your. the handball court, another worker and that a worker in the basketball court. we have some agenda over by the baseball. it was cracked all over the park.

>> host: who was buying? >> guest: everybody was buying. when crack it it decimated that community. i was one of the people that was applying -- supply that poisoned the everybody was buying. i had some family members that were doing drugs. everybody and to cancel all walks of life. people at enough money. people that was pretty affluent. middle-class neighborhood for the most part. units and people, nice houses and stuff. you had white people, white people was driving into by the everybody was buying when it was crack cocaine to everybody. >> host: talk about the blue tops and all that. how much with each of those cost? >> guest: we had two files. we had a small one at a big one. a big what we would call jumble. that would go for $10, or $5. it five for the little one, and for the big one or 10 for the

little one and 20 for the big one. >> host: how much did you make it a? >> guest: we made, so now, i worked to different places. i worked on my own. i was a freelancer where you saw the video. i was working on my known. we would take 1000, $2000 a day. that i work for the supreme king. it's been but they made upwards of like $200,000 a week by one who was the supreme being? >> guest: accrue rent by this guy named supreme. he had come his that he worked for him at a bunch of lieutenants, and they had an iron fist organization. it was actually one like a fortune 500 company. i don't know if the drug business is doing this today. like we worked shifts. i worked night until eight in the morning, eight to four and four to 12 midnight. we got paid on fridays. it was a job. face-to-face relief.

the ironic thing was national with that was we work the exact same hours at the police officers. some of these criminals out of, they go -- these cats were sparked at the invalid departments -- smart. the emulated the police department scheduled. >> host: did you ever get paid off as a policeman? >> guest: not. i was afraid. i always thought it was a set a. nobody offered me money. this one time i talk to in the book were missed a summit with a bag of money and he said i don't know who's money it is, as if to insinuate take it, i don't care. and i would like not. because i did the math really quickly if you get 15 to 20,000, split with my partner, or make a million dollars epictetuepictetu s job for 20th and this could be a center for 10,000, i'm going to embarrass my family. is just didn't work. >> host: where would you personally to the drug on a

day-to-day basis and how much and where did you keep it when you're standing on these corners or at the parc? >> guest: back then a lot of times we held drugs on us because the police were not as prevalent as they are today. the ironic thing is it was more police, like 50,000 police officers in new york city back then and now 36,000 but they were not brought to. it was more of a reactive job. we would just put it under a tire welcome stick it in the tree, which would keep them on you so you would not have to keep running back to the stash. obvious to you can't carry 200. the supreme game i would have a package of two, 300 vials for the shifts. you can have it in your pocket so you were just laying down some work. >> host: are their supreme team member still around? >> guest: yes. >> host: was ever uncovered -- by the way, in this book that are so many names. how many of those names to the

actual names of the people? >> guest: only two people names are the same the everybody else name -- supreme and prints kind with and who was prints? when we saw yo you in the video, who was the other fellow? >> guest: smooth. >> host: tell me more about smooth. >> guest: smoothed went on to become high ranking officials and law enforcement also. people don't know. they will find out in the book. so we changed his life. he went to catholic school. he went to a catholic high school, and he went to a prestigious university all while doing these things that i was doing. he changed his life and became a law enforcement supervisor. he just recently retired also. >> host: here is the former mayor of new york city rudy giuliani. you have a few things to say about it in the book. this is only about 25 seconds.

[inaudible] he blames it on me. he blames it on you. the reason that the morale of the police department is so low is one reason and one reason alone. >> host: you a function called former mayor a clown. why? >> guest: i worked that together i will never forget it. i was on the steps of city hall because it was going to be a big protest so that have police officers there. i will never forget the protest recover people, cops, these are all cops walking around with nooses, signs with the and word. it was bad. i felt really, really bad to be a police officer. it was probably the worst day in my crib being a police officer i felt really, really bad.

>> host: 1992? >> guest: yes and the things they were saying, he was just rounding up. it was basically a major races protest. that's just really what it is. you could just look back at the old footage. a bunch of drunk white cops and a couple of white agitators such as giuliani egging them on and singularly nasty things about a mayor. so like what's going on now, and bunch of cops saying these nasty things. >> host: the mayor was black and using racist things that you were saying about him at the yes if the whole crowd drama what was the reason for that particular speech? >> guest: he wanted to be the mayor. he lost the election to the up. mayor dinkins became the mayor because he beat rudy giuliani in the election. so for the reelection, giuliani was going really hard because he wanted to be the mayor.

with a few missteps by mayor dinkins, the riots, the washington heights riots, you tip the scale and the one you want someone else to call a clown is a man named bernie er eric? >> guest: former police commissioner to nypd. >> host: why a clown? >> guest: well, there was going as him -- cronyism at its best. his only claim to fame as police officers with being a detective in the new york city police department which is on the same scale as a cop. cop, detective, sergeant, lieutenant, captain, deputy inspector, inspector, chief, chief, chief. he became the mayor in nix it and he made this detective down here and brought him and made in the police commissioner. number one person in his power

military organization which is the biggest police department and the country. i mean, after having ray kelly as police commissioner to bring, you know, he just did four years in prison, federal prison for corruption, taking things. like that would happen to a seasoned veterans. when you're going to the ranks you know you can't do this, you can't do that, you can do this, you can't do that. leadership don't start down here. he got to work your way to the topic you just can't supreme court somebody because he was your bodyguard. when giuliani was running for mayor, kerrick was a volunteer bodyguard anyone mayor volunteer bodyguard anyone mayor andy mcginty corrections commission and then brought them to the police department which was the biggest joke in the police department. it's well known he was running for police department. >> host: what was your personal reaction when he went to prison? >> guest: i was like basicall

basically, he wasn't prepared for the job. that was basically it in my estimation it was like he wasn't prepared for the job than once since you published this book, he made some people very unhappy. i want to run some video of the fellow that runs the police benevolent association. you have seen this before, and explained. i think this agenda this name is patrick lynch. before would watch that tell us what his job is just the keys of the union president like a 35,000 cops or thirtysomething thousand cops on the nypd so he was the union president, right after this "new york post" story came out, by the way before you visit, the folklife thing, where did that come from? >> guest: i really couldn't tell you, the tattoos as one getting at. >> guest: get you started. somerset i had thought of the life on my neck which i don't.

i never had it removed. you can't write overriding. they would've had to laser my tattoo off and that would have a shadow and digester right on the. it just don't work. if you took it in right now and wrote cat and you try to write dog on a, ma dog is not going to be legible. same thing with ink. you can't write overriding. >> host: where is it tried to i have a tattoo of my wife's name on my neck right ear, ma you have been married twice to which wife's? >> guest: by current wife brenda. >> host: that is what is on your neck? >> guest: yes, and that's what the thug life thinking from? patrick lynch runs the police noblest association. were you a member of that what you were a cop? >> guest: yes. when you're a sergey go to a sergeant judah, lieutenant, you know. as you move up you changing its. >> host: what was your highest ranked? >> guest: deputy inspector.

>> host: what is that, what is deputy inspector commend? >> guest: commission is not for a five ranks higher but in terms of numbers i probably, department of 36,000, as the deputy inspector you probably have 35,000 people under you. >> host: here's patrick lynch on the streets being interviewed in new york city. >> un-retire to deputy inspector come it was on a podcast announcing that he once sold crack in queens. spent he should never be collecting pension as a newark city police officer. if he was probably a wrong with drug dealers go to get information about drug dealers that killed a new york city police officer, he never was a police officer. he should not be allowed to carry an id retired guard in his pocket. it's a privilege to say didn't serve into a tie. he is not entitled to the privilege. they should look back, find out where he lied, poll his pension

and never allow him to be a police officer. >> host: what is your reaction? >> guest: that shows the major difference of a cop and an executive. let's just say i might vomit application. tso not inform that lying is what you call perjury and the statute of limitations maybe, maybe five years. if he was an executive he would do that but he's a topic he is just spewing benefit all he did was arrest people, hate crimes. he never was any policymaking decision to be well informed on what crimes are. >> host: why is he mad at you? >> guest: basically standing next to eddie burns brother who is deputy commissioner and that's the battle there fighting. they're upset because i know the killer of eddie burns. >> host: when was eddie burns and he was a cop, when was he killed? >> guest: february 1980. i went to the military october 18, 87 kind one who was the guy who killed in? >> guest: there were three guys who was in jail for decades

now than when someone felt they're upset about that you? >> guest: david mcclary. he's in prison. than once again why would, is it just because that's his brother standing right there. >> guest: for him to make, you know, what really gets me is there's no pushback with the reporter. for him to set have withheld vital information of the killing of a cop. do you think for one iota of a second that if i had any information leading to probably the most infamous murder in the history of nypd and if my name was on any she'd come any pad, teeny little sticky come if my name wasn't anything to do you, you think i would've been able to be a new york city police officer? know what in the world. i can guarantee that if i was implicated in any crime of a murder. forget about any murder. find out where i live.

i never lied. if they would've asked me i would've told them because i was good chunk of my life in order. i just got out of the military. my wife and kids, i wanted to do what's right and i wanted this job because i knew this would be a life-changing event for my entire family, first generation police officer, first one to get a high school diploma, first one to go to college, my master, be a professor. i was ready to take life and do what's right i was a good sick anything to jeopardize that. >> host: what were the circumstances of a diverse being killed? >> guest: there was a murder out of their a drug gang murdered a witness. one of the drug gangs that was pretty much friends with the supreme king. summit in prison ordered a hit on a police officer. kessy got locked out. there's this poor kid, eddie

burns the city as eddie burns the city as one of his house guarding a what is that these three guys came and murdered them. the other thing about the whole eddie burns upper is ever your same after he died they had a memorial. i would go to the memorial every single year. i met his brother the i met his mother and his father i met all of them. i did it every year i went there. but because i wanted to tell my life story of this transformation of selling drugs avenue these people, i carry because, i shot at people, i did all these crazy things but i was never arrested and convicted of a crime so why shouldn't i be able to tell my story? everybody's the nypd since a few hundred checks to prison, pension checks of people that are in prison. they want to take my pension but i never did anything in what you make $135,000 tax-free azure pension? >> guest: that's what the publication say. i have a tax-free pension, yes. >> host: they want that taken away from you?

>> guest: they can't do it. it's impossible climate isn't there a lawsuit back and forth? >> guest: i have a lawsuit pending against the nypd so county police department for taking my guns in a "new york post" for slandering me. i have a couple hundred million dollar lawsuit that was very positive it's going to be successful because i didn't do anything to all he did was tell my story by considering the. i was on a podcast and i tell my story, trying to get a book deal, you know, get as much excitement as we can. it actually work. we got the book a deal. but i did know it's going, i spend on the front page next to derek jeter in his last three or four games kind one combat jack has a podcast? >> guest: yes. >> host: what you did you talk to him? >> guest: 2014. july. >> host: who is he? >> guest: he has been in one hip-hop podcast in america.

every hip-hop star goes on to show. i was able to leverage a meeting with them through my lawyer is the entertainment attorney and they will all partners one day. he's fascinated by my story and he wanted to bring the on. >> host: how did you long for how long did you talk to him after about an hour, hour and a half. that's the first time publicly told my story than what it was after that that the "new york post" picked it up and put on the front page. let's look at that headline again so people who may have tuned in later, there's the headline. thug cop. i want to run a little bit of the audio from combat jack's program. it's a brief excerpt just so they care what started all this that led to the book being

published via simon & schuster, one of the biggest companies in the united states publishing business. >> grabbed me, me and my man was like i need you to get these lucy's opera government think i think about eric garner getting murdered in staten island, for the record you what i said can murdered. i'm a cop for 22 years. eric garner was murdered. that's what it was. we will get to the. ssoso at 13 unsettlingly seizedt you know what the lucius was back then. it was a cigarettes. loosen joints. exactly. >> host: so explain more of that what you are talking about. >> guest: talking about the lucius. industries they call them joints but it was marijuana cigarettes for the most part. but the border, the accusation of murder, what's the story just people were not following it that closely, eric garner traffic the eric garner and today. eric garner was a young man in staten island who was trying to

sell untagged cigarettes. juice up untaxed cigarettes allegedly in front of a store out in staten island. the police responded to the location and pretty much was going to arrest them. he didn't want to go. at the time. he had a little bit of pushback. enough to be murdered? i got a. enough to be arrested? i reject that come to the he ended up being choked out and gilbert the medical examiner can't the first person to say this guy was murdered. you can check that combat jack interview. i quote it as a murder because a new nypd, it was illegal to do a show code and to die by asphyxiation. the medical examiner said it was a homicide. >> host: is that making the benevolent association and? >> guest: you have to understand, this blue wall of silence is a serious thing because like i my brothers keeper, whatever you say i'm going to go with, don't worry.

we will make the story up, make it to the i never was a part of that. so for me to come out and say that a cop murdered somebody, they didn't take it too lightly. >> host: you trigger another memory from reading your book to a guy named over and -- overworked and greater yet some strong things to say to our that both irish question of strong things to say about irish cops. explained that. >> guest: i have some strong things to say about irish cops back when i was at because it was him it was still the old guard. these guys were like, i came in 92 cities guys was like 17 to 18 years, they came in the late '70s, early '80s and they were second or third generation. these guys are coming in and they had a lot of racist tendencies. they wouldn't even speak to me. some of the irish cops wouldn't speak to me. i would walk in and say hey,

how's everybody doing? they would look at me like i didn't exist. i'm sitting at a luncheon by myself watching television eating my lunch at the top irish guy comes in and just turned the tv off writing for me and i flip the table over and he and i were going have a big factor he was a nasty and disrespectful. >> host: he had been there disrespectful. >> host: he had been there 20 years and have been there how long? >> guest: about two years. >> host: he comes in, doesn't pass, just turned it right off traffic to was like the first thing you did to me. like they would use the n-word loosely. i was in for dumb white white precinct. there was maybe 300 cops and a forget, only 28 blacks. we were spread across the tours, the different tours. semi different tours. semi to or from fortunate that it was about four.

i can remember the names, about four of us. it was tough. >> host: how would dgc racism? >> guest: as a police officer? there was a lot of examples i could give you. most of it was like promotions, assignments. i talk about putting in papers to go to this elite unit where my partner graduated the same day as i did because -- yes, he's italian. we had two years on the job, big red letters, you need three years to apply. we go to both golf and the calling of the roll call and saytheys that 20 minutes to go down for an issue for the test and he was a really nice guy. he came to me. he almost had tear tears in hise stickies like i'm sorry. and i'm like don't worry about it. it's good, too good on your interview. he ended up going to that elite unit. so i was the same things early on. we got nine millimeters so i

have a few years on the job. we went from a 38 and disposed ago by seniority but all the white guys that was underneath with less time, they got theirs first and had to wait in line to get mine. the was a lot of things to all the stuff baby stronger and made the one to get promoted, be the boss. one thing that could stop racism is being in charge. when you're in charge they don't have to like you but its paramilitary organization to i tell you to move, you do. i don't care what your feelings are. i new if i was the boss i could make change. >> host: how much did your lawyer have to approve in this book? >> guest: not that attorney. simon & schuster, i have a whole staff of lawyers so that book has been heavily vetted. we had to go back and forth on names, places. know, you've got to take this out, that i. so many drafts, heavily vetted.

>> host: how did you do the book lacks how did you put words on paper? >> guest: believe it or not when i got injured september 2011 and having major surgery, i had two back surgeries and and you i would never be a police officer can because you have to be full duty like even if you're the boss. he got to be able to run and jump a fence if someone is chasing you. if you convert one of the search i was going to be liability for the city so they would not let you work naked except for exception. some people to do. i knew i wasn't one of those exceptions. i started writing my story in a hospital bed. >> host: did you write this all yourself or did you talk at traffic i wrote my own story. i walked into simon & schuster with a script like this, date books, a big stack of datebook. i don't have that page in the book. i should have it in about. i kept a journal every year, redbook. after the break i will show you.

i kept a journal every so you as a police officer. i wrote down i didn't write every day. sometimes i didn't write every week but there were stories, the giuliani story to all of these stories in the book i wrote them already. so when i walked into simon & schuster with application we sat down with harpercollins everybody, it was looking like wow, you wrote all of that stuff? and you wrote your own manuscript? it was already a seal the deal. the book was written. >> host: let me read something, we're jumping a bit all over the place but your book is so full of things i want to get as much as we can. let me read back to you what you wrote and tell us of the circumstances. by the time they pulled that off a big i was hot. i was seeing red. i was covered in cuts and scrapes. this guy's blood all over me. we handcuffed them and what to watch out to the patrol car

why did you tell us that story trip to because i wanted to be transparent and review. it's the worst thing i've at it as a police officer. that's the worst thing. i could've killed a handcuffed prisoner by not securing him. and that took me right at that moment it's almost like the incident many years ago when they took the nightstick and talk it up inside and. whenever you're involved personally with the prisoner and it goes south where your fightingest after once it's over someone else should be the common figure to come in. use it t to the site and let thm because they didn't have any interaction with the person. i learned from the data by the fight with somebody either to let somebody else take the arrest. i was just happy the guy didn't die and you didn't read the best part of that is, he was

hiv-positive. i had to be tested for a whole year. >> host: defined some of these things in the book that you wrote, and this goes back to your earlier life. once how fly we were? what does that mean? >> guest: we could give a lesson let's do it. how fly we were, that means how good we looked. >> host: what's good shooting? >> guest: i kind of hate that term but it's a police the term. if the shooting looks like it is justified they called it a good shooting. as i got older and went for the and my career i hated that because any shooting with somebody get hit by a bullet, it's not a good shooting but in the police world, the people, a cop would have a shooting with somebody, the chief comes, and once his investigation, it's a good shooter. that's what that means. >> host: why didn't you tell

us about your personal life? you talk and correct me if i'm wrong, but you talk about having two women in your life early in your life, pregnant at the same time. tina, is that her real name? and teresa. he married teresa but those children were gone to each of those show about the same time and you were in attendance -- why do you tell us about that tragic because i wanted to be transparent and real. i put my life out there. some family member, some friends are not happy about it is the only way i could be able to come on c-span and do all these other shows used to be real and honest with people. that's one thing people understand is honesty. when you're honest, then they believe in you. >> host: this happened twice in your life though, didn't it? when was the second time, how long were you married to teresa?

>> guest: eight, nine years on how many children? >> guest: just one. natasha. >> host: and tina had one child, corey junior. where is he did a? >> guest: peace in. you still in queens. doing fine o time at all you in touch with them country of course then which one of those twin was the most upset they found out about the other one? >> guest: you flip a coin on that. you can probably for the quicker i was living his double life as a teenage. i had a girlfriend in queens, cheating on the one in brooklyn. when they both found out, they was pretty upset by what you have a tattoo. give you another other at the same time and have another woman pregnant at the same time? >> guest: not. absolutely not. you misread that.

>> host: brenda had children before. gaspé yes, one can add you how many children together? >> guest: to you. one big happy family. >> host: where did you meet her and how many of the people by the way in your family are cops? >> guest: i met her in the third grade in that picture in the book, sitting to the left of all the way to the corner with a big bushy hair. >> host: when did you get with her? >> guest: after, after my divorce from teresa. so maybe like 20 years after that picture in the book. yes. >> host: what does she think of this book? >> guest: she likes the book. she's not happy with everything in the book but -- >> host: when did she read it? >> guest: honestly, i don't think she's finished reading it

yet. she's picking and choosing the it's very emotional because all the things that most with the "new york post" think it was very traumatic for her so she don't really like want to involve herself i should definitely read like the early parts of the book. >> host: so you are friends with ll cool j and run dmc? >> guest: well, i'm friends with ll cool j and i was friends with jam master jay. we grew up in the same neighborhood. we all grew up in the same neighborhood. they are one thing and to talk about that in the book, crack and wrap, it all i came up together. it all came up. the rappers back then, he wasn't making big money. the drug dealers was driving fancy cars. i believe they want to be drug dealers. the pendulum swings today. all the crack dealers want to be rappers. ll cool j, actually, i had

before can use on one of his albums, 14th a shot to the dome, you were a cop then and you were security, was the independence of being on the police? so you were there and to put you in the middle. we've got that clip. guess but i haven't heard of that clip from that day time when you've got to listen very kept on this because do you know what your lines were? >> guest: authority felt off, kid ana menendez for some ll cool j's rap song god bless? >> guest: yes time when you've got to listen carefully because it comes new the end. let's run this so you could explain all this to us. ♪ ♪

♪ >> host: i thought you fell off tragedies bragging about what he got and i come in saying they said i thought, your people were saying you fell off, kid, explains the world of rap and hip-hop. what's the difference between the two? >> guest: is all the same. rap is hip-hop. is the way to walk, the way utah, the way you dress, the cars you drive. it's everything. >> host: what is your ditty bop? >> guest: my walk. >> host: did you ever get rid of it? >> guest: my ditty bop is probably dd boob now because of two back surgeries. it's not the same. >> host: didn't it take people off from time to time? >> guest: i had this distinctive walk. i grew up. i was in utah. everybody's swag, jd, 50-cent, they walk with a confident step that you want them. it's just more pronounced than

everybody else's. >> host: where did the blinking come from? you said people have so much money they just went out and bought all this jewelry ass it's all dressed to impress pretty much for the young guys. going up like i grew up it was all to impress the ladies and the other guys know that you are making more money than what they're making. as you see now i am not all blamed out of. i had a little watch on. the bling is gone. >> host: want to show a clip from a movie that you talk of a new book, new jack city. tell us how close this is to the real world. >> i think my cousin also like the fact that your in addition of joe kennedy. >> who? good. because you've got to row ticket

which in the reagan era. they running a strange program, you all. more disenfranchised folks than this places ever seen. meanwhile, the rich get richer and the poor don't get anything. times like these people want to get high. real high and real fast. this is going to do it. and make us rich. >> what? people going crazy over this? i mean, really, it looks like cracked off pieces of soap, how real is about? >> guest: there's a lot of hollywood to that but they say that that movie was largely based on the supreme team. that's what a lot of people say, you know. i'm quite sure, whenever i was a street hustler so i wasn't creepy to the meetings to pre-med with his lieutenant lied set them free sure it was sort of like that. >> host: what advantage was a been a cop that you didn't and member of the supreme team

crafting it wasn't just being a member of the supreme king. my advantage to being a cop is just being a young black man growing up in the city. so i understood like what would go on in the city. policework came fairly easy to me. if they would've thrown in chinatown, downtown manhattan it would've been hard for me to navigate. most of my precincts that were can accept for queens, agree gary, i worked in minority neighborhoods. it was easy for me to thinking. then as i was going higher through the ranks i was able to impart my knowledge on officers that worked for me to tell them hey, listen to every time somebody in the street call you sometime they are not disrespecting you because you're older than 10. that's how they talk. they refer to each other as the sun. i would just like drop jewels often and give them knowledge. this is how it goes. >> host.when they go to the sube

parking the our bench is right there. they have nowhere else to go. but what are we going to do? we're going to get in someone's all day long but they can't pay the sum of so what are we going to do. a lot of policework is discretion than one do i have the name right -- you call it the largest thing in my life the day the gun didn't fire. explained that story. >> guest: that was probably december 12 or december 13, 1986. my son was born on december 12 and he was either that day i came or the next day. i come from broken article but on the block because i'm happy, my son is born and he walks up to me, pulled a pistol and tells me get off the block. you can't hustle down here no more. and so i left. so i left a obvious a havoc in iran. i went over two days and thought

about where i was going because back then it was all about street cred. i have to get my revenge. i said i was going to kill him myself. the gun that i had, i have a nice little nickel plated 25 and it went down there two days later and i was like so crazy back then that i said i want to do this in front of everybody. i want to do at a in the market i'm going to go prime time, about 6:00 whatever is out there and kill them right in front of everybody. for hitting in the face with the gun. i walked down a little guilty walked right up, i pulled a gun out and put in his chest and pulled the trigger three times and it don't go off. he pulled his gun out and start shooting at me. i run and a friend of mine, e.g., turned the corner as i would have been. he pulled his gun out and start shooting. we want him out of houston we're going to do something to him but my friend's mother would not let

us come in the house than one what happened that they can didn't fire? >> guest: because we were so young and crazy and wedding registry, i did know anything about guns. it was a semi automatic. i never racked the slide to put a bullet i in the in the chambee was no bullet in the chamber so i couldn't fire the gun, it's safe to assume is that guy fired you would not be sitting here today? >> guest: bright, deadly. without a doubt. >> host: did you ever shoot somebody? >> guest: some stories in the book, can't give away everything in the book. you've got to leave something to read in the book. i had some brushes with the guns, yeah. tried what i want to show you a clip of you in a barbershop, if those folks that go to movies, there's barbershop one and barbershop 2. let's watch this and you're sitting getting a haircut and listen to the dialogue between you and the barber.

[inaudible] [inaudible] seven. >> host: can you fill in the blanks of what that is all

about? >> guest: yeah. so that's my youtube web series barbershop cop out and filming some shows going around new york city, barbershops although talking about real issues that's affecting the community and getting feedback and real feedback. as life stuff right there. that's not scripted. i just don't the topic at what he think about the question of frisking? it's not scripted as you can see and this is good stuff so that everyone can see how young black men feel about cops and law enforcement in general. the point i was china make with that particular situation was that cops are getting paid, what i said about the nypd definitely, over $1000 a year to make sure that they are not discriminate against people. i would tell my cops everyday check your attitude at the door. i'm not just had a domestic violence incident with your wife that you have to come to work, can you do? you have to look at everyone as

an individual. people look to the place for everything, that in a tree, police. car accident, police. somebody shot, police. everything police. you asking somebody that is 19, 20 in most jurisdictions six months of training never lived out of their mothers basement, give them a gun and a badge and say go call could the world. maybe have a girlfriend, and a domestic dispute. it's a tough job. i criticize police a lot but i abbottabad police. that's a small percentage. overwhelmoverwhelm ing majority of cops come to work doing the job that you don't hear about them. you hear about the tamir rice come eric garner cases, you hear about the bad cops are bad policing. once law enforcement starts weeding them out because every time you see one of these cases, you look at the person's background, seven complaints come use of force, five

substantiated, so the guy was a mess and we don't find out about until they kill somebody. what are you doing trying to they kill somebody? we should be handling it from the jump. >> host: where does your last name come from? >> guest: that has french origins but i trace my roots in north carolina. >> host: you say in your book your dad was an alcoholic? >> guest: yes my dad was a functioning alcoholic. he went to work every single day but he drank every single day. >> host: what year of your life did he die? >> guest: third grade. ..

to stand here and the company and to have this interview, i feel very strongly. >> let me ask you a different way. do you notice a difference in what a white interview will ask you versus a black interviewer. >> not necessarily that, there's a lot more, it's a whole different environment than these

type of interviews. i go on interviews and somebody wants to take a shot at me, they can try. you can fact check everything in the book the less you tell me i have holes in my shoes. >> what's the question you ask all the time as you do this book to her? >> how did i become a police officer while selling crack cocaine. yeah. >> you say in the book you never missed a day of school, you didn't use drugs. >> no i didn't use drugs, believe it or not. i didn't smoke marijuana. that was a big thing. i even very rarely, we use to drink 40 ounces of beer, i very

rarely did that. i was so money hungry, i just wanted to make some money, be able money, be able to take care of myself, didn't want to waste my money. i never smoked a cigarette in my life. >> still have a? >> no. i smoke a cigar once in a while. i had one last night. >> what do you want to do for the rest of your life? >> for the rest of my life i want to go out and spread my message because i believe i have a transformational story that can touch the lives of some of these kids and i want to start a nonprofit. i want to open a computer center. i want to have financial literacy classes for these kids and try to help them because they're hurting out there. they need somebody. the main thing is when they see me, they see somebody who looks like them that did it.

i think any committee, white, black, college communities, i want to get on these campuses and talk to these kids. a lot of kids are going through things and they think there's a dead-end. i'm here to tell them you can make it. >> is there a website people can go to? >> yes they can find me on my website. they can hit me on twitter, instagram and i'm all over the internet. everything pops up. >> let's show the cover of the book so people can see the spelling of your name. it's once a cop, the street, two worlds, one man. thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you for having us. i appreciate it. four free transcripts or to give

us your comments about this program visit us at q&a.org. q&a programs are also available at cspan podcasts. >> if you enjoyed this week's q&a, here are some other programs you might like. they discuss the challenges of policing in that community. district of columbia police chief talks about her 23 years as an officer and the changes that she has seen in her department over that time. author and former washington post reporter nathan mccall talks about his life, his work and race relations. watch these anytime or search our entire video library at cspan.org. today kicks off the republican national convention taking place in cleveland ohio. the first session is getting underway in just under an hour

from now at 1:00 p.m. eastern. the theme for today is make a america safe again with a focus on ways to strengthen the military, secure the border and support law enforcement. speakers today include lonnie a trump, michael flynn, joni ernst and others. watch live coverage on c-span and listen on the radio app and get video on demand at cspan.org here on c-span two, we are live in cleveland with one of today's convention speakers. arkansas senator senator tom cotten. he is being interviewed by steve, washington editor at large for the atlantic. that's live at 22:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span2. all this week, and next, during the party conventions we are featuring book tv on prime time here on c-span2. tonight books about the future beginning at 830 with alec ross on his book the industries of the future. that's followed by discussion of

the book the smartest places on earth. later we have technology. finishing up the evening is steve case with his book, and entrepreneurship vision of the future. that's all tonight beginning at 830 eastern on c-span2. >> tonight on the communicators, >> all were really going through this transition is allowing the customers of this function, the number of registries be named registries and registrars do now contract directly to get the services they need. >> administrator for the national telecommunications and administration discuss his plan

for the u.s. to give oversight of internet governance to an international stakeholder group in late september. it has generated opposition from some republican senators but he is interviewed by the senior editor for telecommuting asian's report. >> the folks that want to protect internet freedom, and i think all of us do whether you're a democrat or republican or the administration or in congress, we all have that is our goal. i think people need to understand that we might actually seriously hurt internet freedom if we renege on our commitment to complete this transition with what the community has said the ready for. watch the communicators at eight eastern on c-span2. >> next a discussion on food and agricultural policy from the annual summer meeting of the nation's governors in des moines iowa. speakers include tom bill sack talked about his department's program aimed at helping rural communities develop sustainable economies.

edward lee on the changes in his industry. the session began with remarks by the head of the national governors association, utah governor gary herbert. >> okay ladies and gentlemen, i think were ready to begin. we welcome everybody back to our event. i think we have a great agenda plans for today. we certainly welcome everybody and hope you enjoy the discussions we are going to have. welcome back the governor, i know some are on their way here but we welcome those who are here. maybe too late night partying out there last night. [laughter] we appreciate governor branstad,

thank you again. it's been a great opportunity for us to be here in iowa. as we get started here today, let me mention we are going to be joined by some distinguished guests so we have here with us, were grateful to have them here. we are going to talk about agriculture and food and the growing economies in the journey from field to plane is the title of our agenda. there's no better place to talk about that right here in the great state of iowa. the good news is we have to i will governors with us, 11 former and one current governor that are both called terry branstad. [laughter] >> we also have a former governor that's the secretary of agriculture, tom bill sack. >> i'm going to get that. you're stepping on my lines buddy. [laughter] anyway were honored to have with

us tom bill sack the former governor of iowa who's done a great job as the secretary of agriculture. were honored to have him here today. we welcome one and all. with that, terry let me turn some time over to get us started on this program and you can leave the discussion. thank you. >> thank you very much, good morning to everyone we have a very fantastic day plan today. we are fortunate to be joined by some distinguished guests throughout the day to start us off this morning we will address an issue that is near and dear to my heart and to the people of iowa. i will lead's the country in agriculture and food production and is responsible for more than 7% of america's food supply. there is not a better place for governors to come, to convene and discuss agricultural issues than here in the heartland of america in the state of iowa with two i will governors, one

former and one current and there is also no better person to leave that discussion than myself. i am honored and proud to do it. >> if that's the motion on the floor, i will second it. anyway, i'm a a proud farm kid as is my lieutenant governor and we have never gotten that far away from the farm and we are proud to promote it. we say good morning and welcome to this meeting on growing food, growing economy in the journey from field to plate. there's no no better place for this conversation then right here. we travel to all 99 counties of iowa every year and we see firsthand how islands have pride in growing great crops, and if you travel the state right now, it is really green out there. there's beautiful corn and soybean crop.

we also raise a significant amount of livestock and we process these commodities and are implementing new technologies all the time. farmers here at home are vital to our economy and every citizen. in iowa the hard work and dedication of our farmers help the state lead the nation in the production of corn, soybean, eggs, pork and biofuels. they provide 1/11 of the nation's food supply but it doesn't stop there. we also lead the nation in the number of large food manufacturers with 36 of the largest 100 food manufacturers calling food home. companies like wicker oats, the largest aerial mill and tones, the largest spice plant based here in iowa. food processing provides 21% i was gross domestic product. islands also choose to purchase

locally and support local markets. right now the farmers market is going down on port avenue and it's one of the best in the entiat entrance united states. if you can get away and visit the farmers market this morning, i think you'll be impressed with the quantity and water quality of food and the friendly people that are their marketing their products. our state is the first in the nation in the number of farmers market per capita. simply put iowans know how to produce, process and produce great foods. it helps provide nutrition and fuel globally. with the growing world population, iowa and all of our states will continue to play a crucial role in feeding this

growing world population. as we look to the future, the world population is expected to reach 9 billion people by the year 2050, and, and we must continue to pursue advancements to help alleviate hunger. we have a chance to see the world through prize speaker last night and what we do to honor and recognize people who are working so hard to reduce hunger and feed the world. in iowa, we have used research, development, innovation and a lot of hard work to build new industries and new technology in the food area. we also know that agriculture goes beyond the field and advancements are found in research and development the challenge of feeding millions of people is one that farmers have and continue to be proud to face. they are expected to grow more food on the same amount of farmland.

history has shown that farmers have risen to the occasion and dramatically increase production in 1960, one farmer produced enough to feed 26 people. six people. that same farmer today produces enough to feed 155 people. through this demand our nation's governors have realized the importance of agriculture. it not only helps our economies but it also creates quality jobs and feeds each of us and the people who live in the communities of our state. this feature will discussion on how farmers, chefs and entrepreneurs are using innovation and business development and we will discuss how schools are partnering with business to develop sustainable workforce pipeline for farmers,

restaurants and the food industry. as you will see, i have truly met my match in terms of energy, in doozy as him and passion with lieutenant governor reynolds. our u.s. secretary of agriculture, tom bill sack will also share the evolution of agriculture and food and how it is benefiting states across this country. but first a louisville chef and restaurant owner will discuss the important relationship between chef and farmer and a restaurants impact on local economies. later during our session we will meet students who are learning about agriculture innovation in high school. we will also have members of the culinary arts program and programs from iowa that will

serve the governor some of iowa's quality locally produced food. we have reserved sometime during the session for you to visit with these students so please be sure to go over and learn about their work and try some of the delicious food that they are producing. right now the students are to the right of the stage. they are working hard with pork raised with root beer and served with curry granola. pork wontons and spicy pepper sauce and marinated tuna with a cucumber salad. to our audience and governors that are here, please excuse the sound of food is sizzling the smell of bacon, and this is a state that loves bacon. if you need any assistance during the session, please see steven parker who is seated here

at the table. with that said, it is my privilege to introduce and accomplish chef, proud and bassett are and are honored guest from louisville kentucky. edward lees culinary draws inspiration from his heritage and training and embrace of the american south coupled with the best ingredients from local farms. in louisville will lee operates fine dining operations which features small plates, smoked meats and an array of bourbon cocktails. very appropriate for louisville kentucky. last year he opened his first restaurant outside kentucky in the national, at national harbor

in maryland. governors, please welcome chef edward lee. [applause] >> thank you for having me. i am very excited to present in front of such an esteemed crowd. usually the people i speak in front of are pretty much drunk on wine so this is a different experience for me. i have two restaurants in louisville, kentucky and one in maryland. if i may plug, we are opening a new restaurant in d.c. next year so we hope to see you there. i will give you a little history about me as i go through this. i am the son of korean immigrants. my parents landed in brooklyn in 1971. i was born a year later and we grew up in a humble immigrant household which basically meant we never ate out, ever. to me, fine dining food was

something that has always been romantic for me, and i knew by the time i was ten or 11 that i wanted to be a chef. even though i didn't know exactly what that meant, i just knew that for me being a chef was going to be my role in life. many years later i graduate from nyu with a degree in english literature, and the first thing i did was was get a job peeling potatoes at a french restaurant for $6.25 an hour which was the minimum wage back then. needless to say my parents were really proud of me. over the next few years i worked my way to the top and at 26i opened a a small restaurant in downtown manhattan. it was about this time that the idea of a very unique american food movement was happening. it started with people like alice waters, odessa piper who

had a huge influence on me. she was wisconsin. we really believed in american cuisine and celebrating american food. a lot of that started with farms and employing and utilizing small farms to gather ingredients. it was a very integral part of my evolution as a chef. when i open my restaurant, this is what i want to do with my career and my identity. being in new york city it's a little difficult to do that because you're just in the middle of a mega-metropolis. as i kept working in new york city i kept getting more and more frustrated with the access to farms. most big-city chefs, very rarely leave new york to go to the country. that's exactly what i did. right around 2000 i left new

york city for louisville, kentucky. i probably drank a little too much bourbon and saw all these wonderful farms and pretty ladies in hats and dresses and i thought this is a cool place to stay for a while. what i didn't realize at the time was that southern food was going to become a huge part of my identity. the other thing i did not know about was that kentucky was going through a major transformation and in 2000, the tobacco sediment had passed and they were getting funds, to kentucky was one of the few states to allocate some of those funds to support small family farms. there's an organization that spearheaded this movement. what that meant when i got there

was i saw all of these farms that were growing tobacco were now growing produce. they were growing everything from quail, walnut, chickens, anything you could think of. for a chef like me who was disillusioned with city life, i had hit a jackpot. so that for me was the beginning of what, for me, was this incredible journey. i realized at this point i could not do my job without small family farms. as a chef, i, i don't create things, i curate them. the only thing i can do is use the ingredients that i get from my farms. if i get great ingredients i can make great food. if i don't, i have nothing. at that point we dedicated ourselves to becoming a restaurant that was going to be farm driven. what that means is slightly different for each restaurant.

most restaurants open with the concept, you write write a menu and then you find purveyors to meet your ingredient needs. what we did was something opposite. we said let's go to the farmers first. let's ask them what they have to sell, what they need to move, what's abundant. let's buy that product and take it back to her kitchen and create food and then write a menu. though it may seem like a simple shift, it really changed the way we look at food. it changed the the way we look at everything about our restaurant. what it forced us to do was it made us realize that we were part of a system rather than outside of it. we all the sudden became into the rhythm of nature and the farm and harvest, and it really defined our mission. i think it is responsible for some of the success i had. at that time there was an organization called the southern

food alliance in mississippi. i was getting into southern food i was spreading my wings and when i joined this organization, it sort of aligned me with other shops throughout the south that were doing and thinking along similar lines. all of the sudden i had access to, and just like this conference, i was was going to conferences in meeting like-minded chefs from across the country. it became a movement. i think in large part, organizations like this are responsible for the popularity of southern food. we have now seen it become a global phenomenon. this idea of comfort food, of being into with nature and respecting the nature of the land, this is my friend travis milton who is now starting a new movement which will take place in kentucky.

a lot of these movements are small. their community driven and driven by chefs and activists and part of what i want to say today is that we can't underestimate the influence and power that these small organizations have because they do create an influence that goes way beyond our imagination and i've seen it happen over the past 13 years with southern food i think we have so much more to build on that. one of the things that struck me was, i've been in louisville for 12 years. ten years ago i would walk around the dining room, if they were out of town i would would ask where are you from.

they would say milwaukee or whatever and i would always ask what brings you to louisville. they would say work or families, et cetera, etc. i remember about five or six years ago there was a couple from chicago and i asked them what brings you to louisville. their answer left me speechless and they said you. it was the first time i had heard that. so the idea that this couple got in a car, made the drive, spent money on gas and a hotel just to eat at my restaurant was something that just fascinated me. i think it's what we now call food tourism which is just starting back then. today i can walk through my restaurant on any given weekend and i can check off the cities of the people where they're traveling from. whether it's new york or houston or dayton or milwaukee. it's an incredible new

phenomenon that's happening in iowa and kentucky where people are traveling to eat. i think we are seeing that people are not coming to restaurants just for food anymore. people are understanding that this is an experience but we understand that restaurants are not just about chefs and food. we are a network and a voice for change. we are an experience, we create memories and these are the things that, for me, have made have made it possible to keep growing, keep understanding what the public wants me as a chef. as the restaurant industry we are a $700 billion billion dollar industry. i think 15 years ago it was about half that. we are growing at an incredibly rapid rate. with that we have seen some

incredible things. i think as an industry, chefs and food riders and tv personalities and activists and waiters and everyone together, we have seen things like the rise of the farmers market boom. we have seen the rise of organic food, we have seen for food transparency and food labeling and better slaughtering processes. all of these things have happened in the last generation and i hope we can see even more happen in the next generation. the few things that happen that concern me the most, that that i want to get to is i worry the most about small american farms, small family farms. to me, this was the thing that spurred me on the beginning of my journey as a chef and it's the thing that worries me most now that i'm in this great peak of my