clinton has been promoting and putting forward as well as where it alliance with senator sanders. overturning citizens united, putting the people's voice back in the people's house. economic security when it comes to more affordable college education, i'm saddling students with student loan debt, making us safer by having tough and smart policies that will achieve that. that's the vision i have going forward. there's the one that could have said it any better than a first lady michelle obama last night. who dishy trust over the next eight years, four to eight years, with making sure that we're going to be moving in the right direction with an eye on her girls? that captured it for me. >> thank you so much. thank you very much, senator coons, congressman and david walsh and. we're going to move onto the next segment of our panel. thank you. [applause]

>> now we are turning to demographics. it was a fascinating recent survey that found the most common age for white americans was 55 and the most common age for hispanics is eight. you can see from that any step shut the way things are trending. i want to welcome to the stage karlyn bowman, senior fellow and research coordinator at the american enterprise institute. and roy to share. thank you so much, both of you for being here. so demographics, we've been talking about soviet politics this election to that's the underlying current, right? let's start with the big picture. in your view, karlyn bowman, how is the electric they should going to differ from the electorate of four years ago for eight years ago or 20 years ago in terms of its makeup? >> thank you to the atlantic for

inviting us. ruy, built at brookings. i met aei. we are working on this for about the last 10 years together under big report on states the changes available on all of our websites if you'd like to look at the work we've done. the going racial and ethnic diversity of the electric is by far the most important long-term trend changing the electorate over time. >> what does that mean in practice? >> if minority's could be as much perhaps 30% of electorate today, groups vote heavily democratic in recent elections has and it was plus for the democrats. democracy favors the democrats. >> what was it four years ago, eight years ago? >> 27%, four years ago and could be as high as 30 as you at the total minority population. >> basically like clockwork fisher of minority voters tends to go up by a couple percentage points each presidential cycle. at the same time the white vote

goes down by two points but it's heavily concentrated to overcome straight among white noncollege those are the most conservative. you didn't have an increased young college. the changing mix tends to push the democrats for the you've got minorities who vote 80% democratic, increasing. you've got nonwhite college voters who vote like 36 or 37%, the democratic decreasing. it's a resume for pushing things in a certain direction although demographics is not destiny but it matters a lot. >> isn't like clockwork. are there any variables that could change this makes, whether changing turnout expectations? report about maybe many more hispanics were eligible for citizenship seeking naturalization just so they can vote. what variables do you see? >> the key variable here with the differential turnout trends among different segments of the electorate like white

noncollege, like latinos but it should be stressed that even if you see some of this, these differences it's not likely to affect the basic trend much. in other words, it could be the difference between minority voters going up by 2.1 instead of 1.9. what's primarily driving this shift is population change. even differences in turnout are not going to make as much difference as you might think. latinos already vote come in 2012, a pretty good democratic year, 16 points under white voters and you still see the result that we saw. i would not expect much in return to crash at this election to i expected to go up. white turnout we'll see but i think i think the extent we see greater white turni turnout it e counterbalanced in this case that increased minority turnout. that's a variable but just to stress the key thing driving these changes is not turnout patterns. its population change.

>> would also look at us and key grips and thinking how they were turnout in november. will young people who supported bernie sanders stay home? we don't know the answer. will married women have been a solidly republican group over time, are they going to turn out for donald trump? that remains to be seen. will be african-american turnout be as high as it was for barack obama? that's going to be enormously important to hillary clinton going forward. these are the kinds of things we're looking at but the issue is differential turnout. >> ruy can you famously wrote the emerging democratic majority back in 2002. i was a decent primer about the increasing diversity of the electorate in population change leading to the demographic, democratic advantage in elections. people would you change about that book if you were to write it with perfect hindsight. >> if we are going to write it right now, i think the basic thesis about the presidential

coalition's turnout to be by and large correct, the groups we saw were growing did grow. they move in the direction they thought in the states that we targeted as being moving towards the democrats basically did. if we write it today i think we do a couple things. one is deal more with the issue of congress. because we do see, congress is basically a big lack of variable behind the changes taking place in the country for pushing presidential elections in a certain direction. soap opera bout that, about the structural problems democrats may have translated the demographic dividend into electoral payoffs. some of the issues around that i think we talked about it in a few states we were behind the curve in realizing how fast they would shoot any other direction towards the republicans, the appellation states. in the book we still categorized west virginia at least for the near future as a democratic state. turned out not to be true at least in presidential.

there's a couple things we would change but i would have to say that basic thesis seems pretty solid. i stand behind it. >> to you a great? >> i do agree with that. democracy favors the democrats. geography probably still favors republicans are little and will in this election overall but i think ruy is right, the republican party needs to wake up to the demographic changes. >> what with having? >> they would probably start with a lot more outreach to minorities and looking to start with latino population. the african-american vote is a solid democratic bloc over also think it would be hard to make inroads there. young african-americans are less democratic not more republican. they're moving into the independent catholic summit of the young americans. reaching out to the latino populace will be essential for the republicans moving forward. i think, think he did with growing number of single women, another demographic we

identified in the face of change will be important over time because that group is growing. >> you mentioned the idea demographics are not destiny. i like to drill down on that. do we ever see sanchez and publishing groups? haven't we seen the asian-american vote become much, much more democratic than it used to be? >> that's correct. if you go back to the early '90s, 1990s, the asian-american vote was republican leaning. it's changed dramatically since then. it was partly a result of immigration in the united states, hardly a result of the cold war disappearing and communism no longer an issue. partly you see voters have shifted to the left. is have always been pro-government voters, asian-americans. that's come out with a vengeance to the point where the party idea of democrats, asian-americans is slightly larger than among latinos. you cannot population. the biggest within groups shift

we see in the past 40-figures has been a shift of white noncollege voters from the democrats to the republicans. what that enabled the republicans, these changes that are pro-democratic have been unfolding for a long time that they were completely swamped to begin with by the movement of white noncollege voters into the republican camp, particularly in presidential. there's a lot of moving parts and hold everything equal and you push forward and we have a big report about different singers called america's electoral future that our project did. clearly if you push forward with the basic patterns, it's a big advantage for the democrats especially several cycles down but you can see what the results are, for example, is republicans increased their share of the white vote by five points. if you do that they could continue to win presidential so intel about 2028 holding everything else equal. eventually that runs out of gas

but it doesn't determine all the outcomes but it think it tells parties some of what they need to do and not do. >> so often these discussions about demographics are deeply pessimistic the republicans. do you see any encouraging, any opportunities for optimism in the electorate, or is republicans entire coalition staked on part of the electric dedicating small and dying out? >> the republican coalition is getting smaller. the white vote has been the basis of the public and party shrinking by about two percentage point every four years. that's significant. i'm not sure i see a lot of positive things for the republicans overall. i think their postmortem after the 2012 election clear reflected they are aware of some of these challenges going forward. breaking into the latino vote over time is going to be very, very important and they will have to do more work in that regard. issues matter, elections matter,

candidates met at the looking at a lot of states that could be implied that we never would've expected before donald trump seems to be doing better in the rust belt and hillary is doing better in the sun belt. i read ron brownstein's 2001 article on the blue wall, the 18 states that a vote in 2009, straight democratic or five presidential elections, the longest trend since the fdr election. then i looked at those dates again after 2012, the same states voted six times for democratic candidates over all. now some of those dates, michigan and wisconsin are conceivably inflate at least this and some of the most recent polls. these trends into change and so there's some opportunities for republicans that were not eight years ago in part because of issues and candidates and all the rest. >> i agree with that. i think in a sense you can also put a demographic lens on that. whereas trump's chances seem as these areas where states where

the white population is still this large, where it's old and with a minority population and other shifts are quite slow. they are relatively static state. wisconsin, michigan, ohio. i think it makes sense of those would be in the target s zone ad have some chances of moving in the other direction. that said, i'm a little skeptical of the ability of trump to move an adequate share of the white noncollege vote so far in his direction as to swamp of other trends in the job democratic leaning of these states. it really does look like a white college vote is going to swing pretty heavily towards the democrats. in a lot of the states you've got not only over perform what you presented among white working-class voters, you have to massively over perform. i think it's a tough calculus. >> democrats have this advantage in presidential elections but

how do you explain the abysmal performance in midterms that we seen for the past couple of cycles? can really only be explained by turnout of different groups? >> turnout is a very important. so, too, is a strong federal system. when you think about all the effort elections and the fact democrats are largely clustered in big cities, density equals democrats is another democratic adage. in that since republicans have done extraordinarily well down ballot in governorships even after this election they were probably hold a majority of the governorships. they've picked up over 900 legislative seats since obama took office. there's something else going on and i think it's related to the changing demography but also these are more localized election. >> is also changing dynamics of the parties and what you're hinting other coalitions? i'm old enough to number 2006 when democrats won a midterm?

>> i think the coalitions are different, the coalitions, the republicans have turnout in these off year elections, they could drop off, democratic constituencies. i think two other things are important. the republicans have done a great job focusing on house and state legislative races. i think to some extent it's a product of the fact some of these other changes are not good for them so they want to maximize their impact on governance by mopping up in these off year elections in the hospital received. i think they've done a better job than democrats and focusing on the. the second thing is something david wasserman mentioned which is a structural advantages below the state level for the republicans, the way districts are drawn partly for gerrymandering but democrats insist on living next to one another and they minimize the effectiveness of the votes. republicans have far more districts but basically 85-45 republicans or democrats into many dishes that are 70 to 80%

democratic district and that just wastes vote. you can win a majority as the democrats did in 2012 and still manage to lose in the house. there's indications now that if the democrats would have to carry the house vote by 54-46 to get a majority of house seats. that's not fair maybe but that's the way it is and it definitely helps the republicans. >> i want to take a couple of questions but first do either of you see any sleeper subgroups among the electorate? we've heard a lot about single women. are there other groups or demographics in the electorate that have not gotten as much attention as sort of the big blocks that you think that either come on the radar or that you're interested in? >> i think i'm going to be looking at african-american women in part because the rate of voting by african-americans in the 2012 election was higher

than the rate of voting by white americans for the first time in our history. african-american women in particular look enthusiastic about hillary clinton. they've gotten quite a bit of attention. she's spent a lot of time courting that vote and i think they'll be a very important vote in the fall. >> i don't know if they qualify a group of people have not been paying attention to but maybe less so than some of these others but white college educated women. i think they will be really big issue everything they will swing very dramatically in the direction of the democrats. that's going to swing the whole white college educated vote toward the democrats. as these things go that's a big change. as ron brownstein pointed out the other day, democrats have not carried the white college educated vote practically ever since polling has been testing these things. i think that's an interesting thing. >> i'm excited to be in a key demographic. who has a question?

raise your hand. don't be shy. the microphone is coming to you. there's someone right in front of us. tell us who you are and who you want to ask the question of. >> my name is miles. my question is for both of you. on from california's 24th district which is both a young district and a very white district. in both presidential add an open house seat this year to you think the youth of the fact that the very white district will play, it's relatively a purple district. which one do you think will be more important in the vote this year? >> i'm not enough of the house nerd to know who speak lois capps, she is retiring this year. >> young voters are not necessarily the most reliable. maybe they will be this you. their turnout rate is not particularly-so i probably look at the white population. >> it's a little bit hard to --

attempting forces because i don't know that much about the district. i do think the performance by the young whites which is a subset of the white vote over all is going to be quite important because if you look at the difference between whites by generation, it's quite dramatic between white millennials, for example, and white older generations. to the extent that a presidential election can propel these white millennials into action in a district like that, it could be quite significant and get the white vote more towards the democrat. my sense is, huge drop off an off year election is huge and i think this is an exciting election. we the people are really interested, levels of camping interest are higher than they've been for a long time. i wouldn't be surprised to see a spike in huge turnout, maybe even relative to the last presidential. i think people come a lot of

young people are going to think maybe i like bernie sanders or maybe i'm not crazy about hillary but at the end of the day this guy is insane and i had to go out and vote against him. i think that's something to watch, the white youth vote. it may be quite impressive in this election. >> white millennials did vote for romney including white millennials women spent if the democrats move back towards -- >> do we have a young people but they're increasingly detached from the political parties? >> they aren't much more independent than other generations. they seem to be just interestingly in the polling data which i spent time on, they seem to be much more interested in state and local spending national politics. >> one more. we've ago right up here in the middle. right back there. >> i'm from austin, texas, and

i'm 18. givegiving him any questions our security whether or not millennials will show up to vote for the presidential election you think it will be a key demographic given congressional districts are coming at? >> great. we sort of address that a little bit but as you mentioned, ruy, that sort of the bernie sanders would end up to be a chance that they get discouraged. young people have not anticipated and elections before. could you look at this election and say i'm staying home? >> i think they could but i think at this point i question that. i don't really see the evidence for why that's likely to happen. if you look at the vote of people who are consistent standard supporters, and analysis about this, look at available for today, it's like 90% for hillary clinton. i don't think there's that much reluctance to vote for hillary in this context. if they have regional commit it to be the i think it into the

campaign ramps up the choices are clear. i think it probably will get out to vote in numbers that are equivalent to before, maybe even higher, we will see. if they come up to vote for the president they're going to vote for house as well. drop off is pretty small between a presidential vote in the house and senate vote. the key thing is getting out of for the election in general. once they're in the polling booth they will vote for all the offices which will help the democrats. >> we hear ticket splitting is dead. any chance it comes back to? >> i think it could come back in this election, absolutely. >> thank you, everyone. thank you so much for coming. and thank you, karl and. thank you, ruy. we will be back at noon. thanks, everyone. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> coming up live on c-span2, we'll go back to this event hosted by the atlantic for discussion on criminal justice reform and campaign 2016. with panelists including philadelphia mayor jim kenney an official from the pennsylvania department of corrections and the district attorney for philadelphia. that gets underway at 12:30 p.m. and we will have it here on c-span into. tune in to c-span for data at the democratic national convention with the theme and lifetime of fighting for children and families. tonight's keynote speaker is former president bill clinton. he will speak in the 10:00 hour. more of what to expect from tonight's speech about president clinton has been helping his wife's campaign, we spoke to a political reporter covering the the tr election. pulitzer prize-winning clinton biographer david maraniss joins us by phone.

first in his class is the name of us go to prize-winning book. clin what should we expect from mr. clinton tonight? what is his role. >> caller: good morning, c-span. no matter what he says is going to be a speech unlike any other ever given. you have husband speak on behalf otherwise before. your former presidents speakingf on behalf of potential future president but never before a former president who wants to be the first man speaking about aho first lady who wants to be president. what you're going to see tonighw is in a sense that they that promissory note he is had for her for a long time, trying to explain as only he can this woman he knows better than anybody in the world.e >> host: you were here in philadelphia. what are you covering while you're here for the post?guest: callback i'm doing a lot of

different things because i've written biographies of both bill clinton and barack obama. copyrighting about their speeches in bill clinton's tonight and president obama's tomorrow night. i'm also roman governor. i wrote a column during the days when i was included for the republican convention. i'm doing that as well. yesterday i wrote a piece about just sort of the phenomenon of history in a meltdown history in a meltdown of the of effective . politics. i'm just trying to take in the whole scene. >> host: is the democratic party of 2016 similar to the democratic party of 1992? >> caller: not at all. i think that if, if bill clinton had run this year with the policies and programs and actions of bill clinton in 1991-92, he would not have had a chance.

but, of course, bill clinton is a changeable character entity law dropped that old clinton into today he would change and adapt to the times. think about what was going onng within. for a democratic candidate for president, as clinton was then, return home to arkansas and oversee the execution of a mentally challenged human being would be a disqualifier today. and in so many ways the third way as it was called of the triangulation of, this sort of conservative nature of the clinton campaign in 92 would not play out in the democratic party of today. >> host: as politicians, our bill and hillary clinton similar, different? >> caller: they've had this remarkable relationship for more than 40 years.

they are quite different. they put on one's strengths,it weaknesses. bill clinton is a natural politician. adaptable to any situation you're hillary is the harderion. worker, and so i think that they are quite different but they have sort of used each other, mostly for the better, sometimes for the worse over these many decades. >> host: and finally, having been in cleveland and now inn philadelphia, once the mood of the folks you're talking to, the delegates? >> caller: there's always a lot of chaos in contention in the democratic party. the notion for everyone is to embrace it in some fashion. but that are bernie supporters who are still quite hostile. it's a minority but a loved one.

and i think it was fascinating to watch yesterday where you started with this, the party was throwing anybody up to the could you try to quiet the bernie credit and they couldn't at intel michelle took the stage. when the first lady started talking you can see somewhat of a transformation from her to elizabeth ward and finally to bernie himself. they would never want a democratic convention to be docile and this uncertainty hasn't been but i think the day by day you see a change. >> host: david maraniss first in the class, "washington post," you can follow his column their as well. spent the democratic national convention is live from philadelphia this week. watch every minute on c-span and listen live on the free c-span reader app and keep up with all the latest convention developments, get audio coverage of every minute as well as schedule information about important speeches and events.

it's easy to download from the apple store or google play. watch the convention live or on-demand anytime on your desktop or tablet or smartphone at c-span.org where you will find all of our convention coverage and a full schedule. follows at c-span on twitter and liklike us on facebook to see vo of newsworthy moment. the democratic national convention live from philadelphia all this week on c-span, c-span radio app and c-span.org. >> we are back live with another atlantic magazine discussion. this will be with criminal justice reform and campaign 2016. panelists include philadelphia mayor jim kenney and official from the pennsylvania department of corrections, and a district attorney for philadelphia. this is live coverage on c-span2. [inaudible conversations]

>> good afternoon. i'm the president of the atlantic. welcome and thank you all very much for being here today. we are gathered to talk about ideas for reforming our criminal justice system. the top of today, rethinking crime and punishment: a next america forum is part of the atlantic's next american series which looks at the united states through the lens of in the graphic change. over the next hour or so we will have three many panels on the subject. it won't begin i would like to thank the macarthur foundation, safety and justice challenge for making this afternoon possible. a quick housekeeping note. we are on twitter at hashtag the atlantic at dnc. let me start with a few facts. among the dutch allies and nations that united states has the highest incarceration rate. our jails and prisons were built

more than 2 million inmates. experts link this not to increase in crime but to harsher laws and longer sentences. and, of course, racial disparities played a role. african-americans are jailed at a rate almost four times that of whites. this is the start across the nation and in pennsylvania. in response to these realities here in philadelphia with a grant from the macarthur foundation, the city is investing in a variety of strategies to reduce average daily population -- jailed by pleasure we will export what change could look like right now. please welcome first that made a philadelphia jim kenney. [applause] >> mayor kenney served for 23 years on the city council you for winning election as mayor last year. philadelphia magazine has called him mr. criminal justice reform and he is supported be

criminalizing marijuana, eliminating cash bail for low-level defendants, ending stop and frisk, and a moratorium on new jail construction. [applause] also, please welcome john watson, the second of the pennsylvania department of corrections and a leading national voice on these issues. [applause] since taking office in 2010, he has focused on reducing reliance on incarceration while at the same time improving outcomes for offenders. join him in conversation is my colleague and friend ron brownstein, senior editor at the atlantic. [applause] >> i am going to steal the mayor's water. i'm goin going to carry the mays water but i will not steal the mayor's water. thank you for joining us. we are excited to have this conversation which is part of our next immigrant project which explores how growing diversity is changing the national agenda. i hope you will visit us on the

atlantic website where we provide coverage of these issues. we're here to talk with criminal justice form of the predicate is public safety. i want to start by asking you to react to the portrait we heard at the republican convention last week. is philadelphia getting safer or more dangerous as the argument went in cleveland? >> first of all, what happened in cleveland was an abomination i've never seen such vitriol and hate and division. it's not what our country is about. it was like if it wasn't so serious it would've been funny because like the world wrestling federation. trope is live events mcmahon. but the issue is safety, criminal justice form create safety. it's not the other way around. the more you lock people up, we are clearly -- you just like more people. i went into a house,

philadelphia industrial correction center for graduation, one of the mothers in charge program is doing anything for some of them men who were incarcerated, getting used to coming back at anger management and things. it was a nice graduation, mortarboard cap and gowns and getting pictures taken with the chemin. is like 27 or so. is from south philly. we started to talk about the neighborhood. i said you're getting out soon. did you have a skill? did you have a job? what did you do? elected me, i sold drugs and does 14. in other words, i have never done anything else. that i think is part of ours when people get locked up in the first place. you have no opportunity or hope for a job because you're not educated because the government is decided education in america at the pennsylvania. you go to the street and one that may be doing drugs and become drug addicted and then you wind up doing things because of your addiction that puts you in jail.

we have 7000 people incarcerated in our county system. 60% plus of them cannot make bail. haven't been before judge because have no job or family member who can sit for $140 a day for 30, 60, 90 days before they see a judge. >> we will come back in a moment. is the state of pennsylvania, are you getting safer is becoming more dangerous? >> we are becoming safer. certainly you can't argue that there is a blip up in crime but, frankly, anecdotes are what got us here. four decades of bad criminal justice policy has gotten us a bloated system with no return on investment. you can make the argument on the bike, it's a good to invest 2.4 going to end the state department of corrections when we no low-level individuals come out more likely to commit a crime? that makes no sense. frankly, the only path forward is that.

what the data tells us, it's states with the biggest reduction in the prison population also experienced the biggest reduction in crime. we really have come as politics, fear, really don't have a place to we want to continue to move forward. >> any thought on why you are seeing that blip? we've certainly seen a couple of decades of crime reduction to even the blip is below. >> let's not panic at one number. it's very easy to police statistics out, but no context behind and inside the sky is falling. put in context the in context yes, it is increase but it is too low, still at historic lows. >> philadelphia had more birds in 2015 to 2014 the way to love the levels in 20 oh spent absolutely. spent what are you seeing speak with one murder is too much.

it's also when it comes to counting murders and homicide seems to be another one. i think shootings are as important as homicide. if you have a deranged person who kills defamatory couple people and families in their house, how do you police that? what law enforcement strategies can you put about to stop that from happening? this to go on the homicide count. the shootings are up. i don't understand the disconnect between people who are unfettered when it comes to the availability of guns and on other argued about crime being high or shootings being high. [applause] we find ourselves at a loss because the feds will not do anything, the state, its pennsylvania gun heaven. we are stuck. we deal with the carnage of gun violence in philadelphia when somerset county it's a matter of culture and family and sport and should understand that. i'm not denigrating that but it got to help us do something. >> lets talk at the state and municipal level.

to our reform efforts under way. start with the city because if you look at the reform of the jails in philadelphia, it's been an issue for decades. the first lawsuit and overcrowding goes back to 1971. you build a new jail facilities to deal with it. you have a period when you went to crack down on people who don't appear in court. more losses. now another major reform effort under way. tell me first what have you learned from his four decades of efforts before? what are the main lessons? >> it was a mistake. we kept on compounded mistake by building more prisons. we spend $40,000 a year or so to incarcerate a person in our county prison system. it's eight, $9000 to provide pre-k for every child in the city. if you provide pre-k for every child in the city, you're saving 40 on the other in. no one seems to get that. i was born into kids i grew up in the '60s and '70s and it was

like law and order, vietnam era, civil rights era, lock them up, blah, blah, blah. we are still digging out from that. when i first got nominated a lady said next frank rizzo. [laughter] no. we need to look holistic. secretary west let's been at the forefront on the state level. these are human beings who have gone astray but if you kill somebody you're going to be with them for the rest of your life. our guys are in there for 23 months, anything under two years. we have to do something more than just tells them. they need to come out of the prison with a cdl license, the ability to weld or a high school education to maybe community college education and we need to do that, or get the out of the facility to do it. >> in 1999, the average an inmate count increase by 45% in

philadelphia. peak in 2008. it is down when the institute look at the biggest counted india's the average incarceration in philadelphia is higher than any other. basically it tripled the average level for the 40 largest counties in america. why is it so high in philadelphia? >> because the poverty rate is so high. it's like, if you fix the education and poverty situation george l. population will not go down. the aspirational goal is to not need a job at all at the county level. people in harrisburg don't want to fund education but will build a jail in the second. there are counties that their entire industry is based on incarceration. there's something wrong. >> a very specific type is the average month stay is 23 day. philadelphia it's about 90 days. why so high? >> cash bail your cash bail really. if the judge thinks you're a viable risk to let go and the

buildup and you can't make a bill number. i've got to pay the bail. i've got to keep them locked up for 90 days. >> let's talk about of the state love you all for under way. a working group which is supposed to produce recommendations for the 2017 legislative -- what you learned about the statewide policies? give us a sense of where this effort is going. >> the governor take the software this year indicate that off in a smart way by saying the goal is less crime than less victims. let's not glaze over. we want safer communities but it is focusing on population drivers and how as a criminal justice system we can make better decisions. we know that incarceration is best used with precision we need to make a decision at the front and. in pennsylvania we don't hav haa statewide policy announced that they'll. when the initial decision is bad, garbage in, garbage out.

i know justice is supposed to be blind but it can't be blind to outcome. justice has been blind to outcome. this focus is gathering data and look at how we can make decision on funding. an interesting piece came out at the last meeting that looked at the number of pennsylvanians under criminal justice, including county children county probation and parole, state prison a state parole. pennsylvania is third in the country. a driver is the fact pennsylvania and has extraordinary long probation to even if someone is sinister local jail and part of what drives this is pennsylvania's state law allows for twice the length of stay the most states. most states low incarceration is capped at the you. in pennsylvania it is capped at 23 months. >> one of the most striking numbers in the early effort, since 2004-2014 incarceration rate in pennsylvania up 20%.

new york and new jersey down 20% over the same period. what is your best analysis of why such a divergent? >> there was a parole moratorium oand the shutdown of the parole system for long periods that cost about 2500 inmate increase. what we've seen 24 years before got this job our population was growing by 1500 inmates a year. the good news is since 2012 we've seen about 1% of the reduction. know it is patting themselves on the back but we changed it around. we are doubling down undercover wealth by focus on the root cause. than the their mention education education is the root cause. 50% of but who comes in to the state prison doesn't have a high school diploma. spent how many people have an addiction problem? >> 70%. 27% mental health issues. those are not discrete populations but again poor

education, not having inadequate behavior health safety net that includes both addiction and mental health. one of the keys don't of the covers approach, focusing on this opioid epidemic. the cool part is and i've been in these roundtables all over the state and for the first time in independence to a longtime. first on finding people they can't arrest our way out of it. that these our brothers and sisters. we need to make better decisions and that's what that says. that speaks to humanity of people who are incarcerated. it speaks to an understanding that we shouldn't judge people by their worst day. we need to make good decisions and that is consistent with putting people on the path to not commit another crime. >> i saw something into print proposal, 13% of your joe parr collation has mental issues.

>> we are locking these guys up fellows and drugs on strickler large drug dealers in the world are pharmaceutical companies. [applause] you have these pharmaceutical companies giving pillbox free stuff to give out as free samples. people to get addicted would've been given and what is done in the to there will. we have 300 people are so up in kensington living along railroad tracks come mostly heroin addict. not just adults but kids. we have a huge problem when it comes to addiction. we talk about alcohol and decriminalizing marijuana. video. -- big deal. i said all the time during the debate on decriminalizing marijuana, if you want to arrest a lot of people come and go to an eagles counted on sunday and you can rest all the new jerseyans and suburbanites audie what but they're all white.

i'm not judging them because they can do whatever they want. you can't do a legal petition stock or a bad stop on a 20 year-old black kid who happens have a joint in his pocket. it makes no sense. >> let me throw another statistic looking at this. a chart from the present policy set in 1983, all the people and all the jails, about america, half of them was divided equally between people convicted already of people who are awaiting trial. now it's up to 70% of the people in local jails are people who have not been convicted and are awaiting trial. since 2000, 99% of the total increase has been among those who are awaiting trial. how does it compare to what you sing in philadelphia? >> don't hold me to it but 60%. i think it has to do and what we are doing with the macarthur grant is dealing with the court system. it's very opened up in this discussiodiscussio n. the district attorney and have

the charge, and the prison administration on how we deal with this. it's up to a judge all the time as to what level of bail and what level of the probation and other things that institute are talking to the judge and getting them on board is an important part. >> you are developing an algorithm that is designed to be used in deciding what level of risk someone presents. how do you go about doing that? >> i'm not doing it. some statistics -- satellite we are working with experts and people advising is based on the ability to get this grant and to move forward. >> is have something that needs to be public with the actual algorithm is so people can understand what you're determined to be? >> the factors will be public. but it will be. there's been a bit of discussion around whether using risk assessment is biased but my

first response is compare it to her current system. if it's less biased were making progress so let's put in context. the reality is and go to a doctor's office didn't have somebody and in many cases someone who is not a medical expert testing of which are treatment should be. they put you through a series of tests and that's just what wrong with you and suggest a path to make you healthier. risk assessment is simply looking at factors that predict the criminality with a focus on about as come to join the path to be less likely to commit a crime spent another big piece, moving the question of bail and the role of bail. in your grant application you said you will establish a robust of alternatives to cash bail based on risk level. >> you can put a price on somebody's able to they're pretty effective in determining whether someone is in her house, going to drug rehab or counseling or just abscond and

going out and doing what they're doing. that's much cheaper than having some of incarcerated. >> what do you think, there's an ambitious goal, reducing the number of people in your jails by a third over the next several years. what is going to be the biggest obstacle? >> having all the stakeholders on the same page. it's convincing a judge following what we're going to hope to recommend is not going to get the judge criticized for letting somebody go. that's part of it is the politics sight of it. our judges are good people and their conscientious annie duke chop it its distinctive on the page where the understand that this change will affect everything in a positive way spent same question at the state level. ism to reduce the burden the level of incarceration, what's the hardest part of making that happen? >> commonsense. by comments and quoted quote we equate locking people up with being safe.

but the reality is we need to make better decisions at the front and. when we do that we get better outcomes. it's just that simple. what they're going to do in philadelphia i don't think it's a high bar. make good decisions. mail is the key to both the state and local system. if we don't make good decisions on the front in it's about public safety. if i'm a rich guy with such a result of some and you're a port type is tuesday six pack of tighty whitey's from wal-mart, i'm getting at the unit 50 bucks for your stinking. that's not about public safety. that's about money. our system is predicated on money. [applause] >> do you need crime to be going to in order to maintain political support? >> we kept walking more and more people up and crime kept going up. let's based on outcomes. if we measure our current decision on outcomes we are failing on the outcomes. >> and if you basis solely on

public opinion he will never get there because everybody is afraid. they are afraid what they imagine is there. all this imaginary thing that folks like myself were raised on and grew up in was lock them up. lock them all up and throw away the key. it's not sustainable and it doesn't make any sense and it's not humane and it is not cost effective. >> i would say we should be measuring every single public policy by outcome. when they work we should keep doing that. and they don't work we should stop doing that. >> hoping for a different results. what outcome you focus on a lot is recidivism. he wrote an article and you should refrain from referring to those of commit a crime as the offenders i do excuse their behavior a minimized the impact of those they have offended nor do i disrespect victims by

respecting those who were victimized. i acknowledge the humanity of incarcerated individuals despite the behavior and acknowledged their capacity to change. how much of the current problem comes from the ingrained idea that prisoners are in some ways not reading double? >> anytime it to them we can do whatever we want to them. i just think what about this groundbreaking thing about humanizing people and not clinton is on the way out the door, people so what we spoke to call them? what you call it, never if it comes out. you call them by their name. i think everything we do in the criminal justice if we should do with a focus on getting an outcome. if labeling someone is going -- i remember also that to the self-fulfilling prophecy, tell teachers what you believe about the kid has as big an impact on how they will perform in the school. the same thing. it's important we understand the humanity of individuals who come through our system.

this heroin epidemic has a lot of people saying people who are addicted dozen nestling mean that that person in spite of the fact they may be committing crimes. i said the same thing about people who are incarcerated. >> the hardest thing that i to do is find people work who have been incarcerated i have a stack of resumes on my desk every day, and at least 100 the at least 100 the course of the i wake a phone call to two or three or four employers say to me a favor, just meet the guy, take a chance, give them a shot. it's so frustrating to have had a criminal past or and incarcerated past 10, 20 years ago and still be held against you. does not go on forever? >> none of us are perfect. as part of the effort are you looking at that? argued examining the issue? what is the trajectory of people after they complete? >> at the state level is focusing on, we've been meeting with employers and employees are a key part.

you are talking to a third of america with a criminal record. at some point if you're going to have to hire someone you will have to hire someone with a criminal record. we were released 20,000 issue. i'm not telling on a reference for 20,000 people. we just need to take individual chances on people coming out. from our standpoint we tried to focus on developing marketable job skills that jobs you can get with a criminal record. we tried to take a reality base. >> talk about some of the programs spent vocational programs. fiber optics. we've been working with the gas industry when it was done a couple years ago working on pipefitting come for housing, food service jobs. beyond that we are one, we have four pennsylvania versus including villanova, lehigh participating in the pell grant, the belgrade experiment but we are starting to do higher education inside a prison. if some kids a college degree in prison they are not coming back.

>> you both have a lot of this undue control. there are things you can do, never she can push, policy you can implement but how is the national debate either on program at a political level your ability to move forward? if we have a debate in which there is a push back from the republican nominee on the idea that maybe we're mad at people he will endanger you suburban family, how would that -- >> the way i look at it, philadelphia is an island. i'm going to do what we have to do with inside our borders to be fair to people. if the rest of the state wants to be crazy, if the rest of the country wants to be crazy, go ahead. we are going to take care and keep our people safe and to our people with dignity. >> important part of the narrative is there's a big effort on trying to get because the nominees has come as a whole lot of republicans trying to improve our criminal justice system. let's not gloss over what

individual spirit i've been dying to ask, does donald trump remind you of frank rizzo? >> no. i don't know. he reminds me of mr. mcmahon, okay? he comes out with the steam. he was an avid wrestling fan and i used to go to the wells fargo center, whatever name you was then and go to these things are like saturday afternoon, saturday night. i'm telling you it is a be creation of the exact fan base and exact character. >> you've given a lot to join us about will you join me in thanking them? [applause] >> bob, turn it back over to y you. >> thank you, mayor kenney and secretary wetzel. thank you, ron. we will see again in a few minutes but first some perspective from our supporter. it's my pleasure to welcome julius dash, the president of the macarthur foundation. and join her on stage is vikrant

reddy was a senior research fellow with the charles koch institute. julia, over to you. [applause] >> so we have to talk about the bipartisan nature of criminal justice reform. i see that time is running fast as i think we'll do it in a speed dating format if we will see if we like each other at the end. i'm prepared to like it but let's talk about how progressive, look at criminal justice reform. let me first establish a little bit why i'm even sitting at the soviet may not know that the macarthur foundation is a private foundation and as a matter fact we have a lot of working on absolutely anything that we want to do. we work on many things but right now one of the number one priorities in his criminal justice in the united states. that's what brings me here. but let me ask you a question. when progressive talk about criminal justice reform they

often talk about in terms of fairness and equity and humanity and respect. and tackling the hierarchy of human value that absolutely finds itself replete in our institutions. there's a perception that conservatives come to criminal justice reform from a fiscal perspective. when you talk about it do you talk about it in terms of fairness and justice and equity? if so, how? >> the outcome i think the notion which is combative from a fiscal perspective is wrong. that's not just a simply have. that's kind of demonstrable. the economy collapsed in 2008 with some of those prominent criminal justice reforms in the country in many major red states happened before '08. in texas that happened in 2007 when the state had a budget surplus. a couple years before some major reforms were passed in south carolina and in kentucky. i don't think it's just a fiscal

argument. after 2008 it got more people interested. a lot of different conservatives talk and think and a lot of giveaways that are nothing do with the fiscal argument. social conservatives talk a lot about second chances and retention. they say things like if we are profamily and what are we going to do about these communities and neighbors were a third of the fathers are imprisoned? that's a big conversation point. .. they come out even worse than they started.

we are not getting the best results we can in terms of public safety. that's a lot of the conversation. >> there is convergence there. maybe not consensus, but conversion surrounded large core values. it seems to me sometimes are aggressors, the issue with a focus on over incarceration. it seems to me that i heard you combat it not only from the perspective of humanity, but on the notion that there is a degree of over criminalization. in the middle of fact, there seems to be a well goodwill on both conservative and progressive perspectives to say that the system actually needs to be fixed. it seems to me that right now is the need for that mix. there is a need for the political will across the country from the front end of the system where there is jail all the way to the recidivism challenge coming out of prison.

but it seems to me that there are remedies that are congruent across our lives. those remedies could be all the way from greater support, for a smaller amount of time, whether in jail or in prison. but one of the issues i thought we should talk a little bit about is what is emerging right now in the conversation, and this dynamic of brokaw and anti-cop. what does that mean in your circles? >> well, i don't like the framingit first of all, it just seems wrong. if you go back to the root of a policing has always been intended to be, there is this movement for community policing. that is an old movement when policing was sort of sounded in london in the 1800s, the whole

idea by sir robert peel west communitypolicing. his famous line is the police or the community and the community are the police. i think the framing is really misguided. i think most people disagree with a peer to the extent that anybody who wants to push that narrative, they will obviously live conservatives. obviously lose independence. in the words -- lose most of our process well. >> the framing is not only incorrect, but dangerous and creates a dynamic that people of like minds have to actually push against an event away from. as a matter of fact, i will not say i can speak for people who've lived experience is not the same as mine, but i cannot imagine that people who live in a community are actually -- they actually want the police to go away. they actually want the police to do their job. they want them to do the job that is based on respect.

they want to be protected. they want police to close the cases. they want them to engage in the human interaction that increases legitimacy of the role of the police and the community. as a matter of fact, the idea that better policing is enough is not enough. it seems to me that police are at the front end of the entire local criminal justice system and their racial and ethnic disparities to route every point of contact in that system. and so, the sense -- i would like to go back to your point about costs. correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems to me cost is both fiscal and human and when we start to put the fiscal cost in the human cost of a system scene is not legitimate, we start to have a challenge that our democracy might not even be able to handle. >> sure.

you know, a few minutes ago we talked about over incarceration, but you talk about over criminalization. the reason i talk about over criminalization is because of the chain you are talking about, the timeline here much, much earlier in the process when certain things are made illegal they don't need to be. you start triggering unnecessary complications. i will give you one example that's become a huge talking point on the right. a lot of people will remember the name of eric garner, the poor man has put in a choke hold by a new york police officer and he died. many, many questions surrounding that. one question commonly asked on the american right is why in the world was this man interrogated by police officers for selling individual cigarettes on the street corner. why is that a crime? why did we send these police officers who have important things to do to protect public safety to do that job? that seems a bit more

interactions between police officers and americans, oftentimes black americans and some percentage of those will go wrong like that one bit. that is the sense in which it's obviously appropriate to focus on over incarceration and look earlier in the chain of criminalization. every part of the chain. >> it brings to my mind when you say that, the notion that communities just don't want to be over police. but they also don't want to be under police. they want to find a balance that police are doing their appropriate job in the context of community and in the context of supporting a the relationship between individuals and government because when that is torn, you begin to diminish the compact between people and their government, the willingness to be governed. once that happens, our entire democratic experiment is that race.

>> i absolutely agree. i will say since we are down to the two-minute point, we have to decide whether or not we like each other. >> two more minutes to decide. >> let's do it this way. we are close to getting an agreement. do you think anything could be royalty agreement at this point? what are the risks for consensus on this issue right now? >> i think the challenge for consent this is a sad that we are at an inflection point in the condition are propelling negative perceptions about what is happening across america are so an extra ball that there is nothing we can do. actually, there are things we can do. as a matter of fact, one of the reasons we are here today is because 191, almost 200 jurisdictions signaled to the macarthur foundation that they wanted to work on fixing their local systems of justice.

that gives me the optimism that there is political will and human attention to this moment in time. so i am optimistic, but i think we have to steel ourselves against the rhetoric that tells us this is a time in america that is so dark. it is a time in america where we have to withdraw within ourselves. we actually have to turn ourselves outward front nine and say this is a time when we could work on our problems. >> yeah, i am optimistic. i feel like people in a room like this focus very closely on what is happening on capitol hill, very interested in washington. i doubt many people are looking at pr, south dakota or tallahassee, florida. the thing in the state legislatures have been really uplifting. three years ago they passed a major criminal justice reform bill. a lot of funding was allocated

to mental health treatment in tallahassee, florida just this legislative session. things like this are happening in red states, red state capitals all over the country. they may not get the glamorous headlines. they are happening. it is a real movement and i am optimistic. >> i want to say not even at the state level, the today's "new york times" profile of the police chief in stockton, california who says he knows aggressive zero-tolerance policing is not what at the end of the day drives crime down and make people safe. it is a police force legitimately engaged with community that over time supports that legitimacy, which at the end of the day helps control crime. i am optimistic and i like you. >> i like you, too. >> okay. [applause] >> gray. thank you julia.

i gradually came to a conclusion were not only like each other, but some consensus around optimism, which is great to close at her conversation about challenges and strategies and solutions. will bring together voices from across the spectrum. those who enforce the law to those who experienced the criminal justice system from the inside. i would like to welcome to the stage bradford gray, chief defender of the defender association of philadelphia. [cheers and applause] her group represents 70% of all those arrested in the city. william cobb is a former inmate in the founder of redeemed. we deemed as an organization that is working to curb employment discrimination for those arrested were combat dead. seth williams is the philadelphia district attorney. [applause] under his leadership there has been an expansion of diversion

programs and sentencing opposition for nonviolent offenders in the city and an economics professor and director of the criminal justice program directors university. thank you all. >> i got a call back. >> you live in l.a. >> when we think about this overall issue about the level of incarceration in our society and whether it is excessive, how much of the problem challenge would you say is defined by federal choices, state choices and municipal choices and how do they interact? >> i think most of the problem and opportunities are at the state and local level, but the federal government plays a role as well. in the buildup of the quadrupling or quintupling of the prison population depending when you start the beginning,

the federal government has played a small role in that part, but it is a growing role in in order to address federal perspiration and detention khomeini to take up the immigration issue, which is a big one to take on here. state and locals have always played the largest party in terms to incarceration and policing with some important interventions for the federal government. there are rules, intent, it means that the federal government does that both imposed on the constraints on the localities, but also can sometimes provide opportunities in research and support. >> we think about the number of people under criminal justice supervision at any given day. has the bulk of the growth in at the state level, and municipal level? >> mostly at the state level and those who are detained prior.

>> i mentioned the number of people in the jail system is not a new one. the first lawsuit was back to 1971. there are more lawsuits shifts in policy and yet here we are with philadelphia at the highest level in perspiration rate of any of the 40 largest counties in america. mr. williams, how did philadelphia get here and how difficult will it be to climb down from the sledge? >> i want to thank the atlantic and the macarthur foundation for hosting us. we don't even talk about solutions. people see on the news every night, side shooting. they get scared. they want something done. we got here generations of prosecutors before me. there is a paradigm shift of what it means to be an american prosecutor. therefore, whatever question was asked, the answer in the debate on tv was more jails. longer prison sentences, which

we have seen hasn't worked. my predecessor had more people on death row for homicides, but there was no -- we have to use empirical data as you heard from secretary wessel. the struggle to see what works. it's not the severity of punishment to change his behavior. it's the certainty of punishment. the paradigm of american prosecutors to prevent crime in july weekend to reduce recidivism so people don't get arrested over and over again. you want to help me prevent crime, invest in early childhood education. 50% of the public high school students drop out. get kids ready for school. if you want to help make him a toe jump on the back of a drug dealer. help get people that have mental health problems get the help they need. >> obviously, those are broad

governmental policy choices. if you say the focus should be on preventing crime, what are the lovers under your control? how can you move the needle? >> in the american criminal justice system, we are involved with every part of the criminal justice system. whoever i designate decide to get charged. do we ask for bail? god bless you. what are the sentences? we created 40% putting in diversionary programs. if you get their drug and alcohol rehab, mental health assessment, we are going to expunge her record. we do that with many felonies now. the prosecutor has the ability to work with other people in the entire spectrum of the criminal justice system to prevent people from getting arrested, how to handle them, but it takes political kurds.

if i put someone in a diversionary program and they commit another crime, may be a heinous crime, they might be very mad. empirical data shows that giving people a second chance, work ready opportunities, not having a felony conviction. a felony conviction is like an economic death sentence. you send somebody to state prison for 10 years to come home with a felony conviction. they don't have a high school diploma. they have a phd in criminality they can never get a job. do they can on the front end to assure the results on the backend will prevent recidivism. >> that is certainly where you live, that issue. philadelphia, highest rate of any of the major largest countries in america. how did they get so high and in your mind what are the key steps are bringing it down responsibly? >> thank you for inviting me to the panel discussion.

for far too long, i really want to thank you for doing that. what i really think is of course there was a focus on law and order and funds became available for more practices that allowed for policing and more policing a kind of overuse of our criminal justice to solve all of our problem. one of the things we need for true reform to happen is a psychological reform. we have to change the narrative of what public safety is. public safety should be a code for law-enforcement but echoed through needs, identifications. we spent so much money doing the same thing as we are not getting the same -- we're getting the same results. we understand that locking up people with social issues is not a deterrent. what can we do differently? we need to think more creatively. i would love to see the ability for us to say law-enforcement, we don't need to have one person

in these areas yet maybe we need to take that money and invest it in school therapist. maybe we need to take the money and invest it in their needs and health care professionals that could really address some of the underlying issues that are making people have the cyclical type of result. >> the broad societal issues that are at play, the amount of time people spend in jail. the average amount was 23 days. for philadelphia is about 90 days. why is that disparity so great. >> people are mass incarcerated, people that have been overworked public defender that has a hard first time of spending the time and attention a person needs. oftentimes, people are sitting, waiting for outcomes that in our

defense system cannot produce. while the public defender's office in philadelphia have amazing disposition because we have insane by the macarthur foundation to dispose of our cases a lot quicker than anyone else, i think that people go by this methodical system that we are not looking not why are we taking a person through 14 different hearings to get to a certain result. can we speed up the process and take out some of these are craddick, you know, policies that do not make any sense. we can have a person that would have a case rescheduled as much as 14 times. why do we need that? we need to figure out where are we wasting time and where can we speed up the process? >> the district tourney is a strong term. if an economic death sentence of member in the term. is that your experience and what does it take to get a

commutation. >> ron, that is my experience and experience of the more than 350,000 philadelphians have been accountable for the criminal justice system. if you look at people living in inescapable poverty and overlay their criminal justice interactions, you will find 90% to 95% of individuals, family members themselves have been in conflict with the criminal justice system. personally, i've been home for over 16 years. as recently as two years ago, i applied for the position, got hired, was terminated based on the 1994 conviction. i am educated. i'm ready, willing and able to positively impact companies or corporations, but as is indicated, lots of people but the criminal justice system are actually as well spoken as i am always educated.

an individual such as myself has a difficult time time to time. it is an economic death sentence for many philadelphians involved. >> i have a feeling this is the question to which the answer is going to be both. what is a bigger problem, the equipping the formerly incarcerated with the soft skills and hard skills to succeed, or a culture rating employers to be willing to take a chance on hiring someone. >> the bigger problem is changing the culture, changing the believe that an individual who is been in conflict is not like any individual who was actually watching this event. 70 million americans have been arrested and/or convicted. that is nearly a third of our population. doctors, lawyers, politicians, the brightest minds in the world have been through prison doors in america.

the fact that would actually be the correct answer. >> it's not necessarily a commercial for my friend, but jeff brown and his wife sandy owned 13 shop rights in philadelphia. they are the number one employer of people with felony convictions. they become great employees. many are tremendous salespeople with tremendous skills that need to be directed in the right way. once he hires them, they become tremendous champion and he employs people in that community, within that code. that is a tremendous model. when they had riots in baltimore as a result of freddy grey's dad, people in that community stood around his shop to protect the shop right because they know he is investing in the community. we need to recognize business owners like that and promote that. >> we also need higher level employment opportunities

available for high functioning scales. one of the things that we've seen oftentimes as some of the jobs available for people with records are low when jobs. not to describe it jobs because they are actually jobs, but people cannot reason a class citizenship to afford college for their children and their second generation. it really gets frustrating. it becomes a situation as to whether or not they have the skill, experience ,-com,-com ma education to fulfill a job that a win for the health care industry, that he cannot get that because of his label. there is a problem bear when we are talking about giving people economic empowerment. >> we are thinking about the different buffers available to reduce the burden of incarceration on society. how valuable or important would it be to get a better handle providing opportunity and thus reducing recidivism. >> i think it would be extremely

valuable. i don't think it's too difficult and away once we have the political will to do so. i want to relate a couple of facts from the research. people often cite that recidivism is quite high. two thirds we said again and within three years of release. that is misleading because most people who enter the system don't reciprocate. some of them are said to date a lot, over and over again. two thirds of those who enter dopers innovate even if you look out 10, 15 years. we need to think about a bifurcated strategy. once people have been out and shown themselves to knock is to knock as the debate, their chance of committing another crime becomes vanishingly small and indistinguishable from the rest of the population. in some states, they are establishing kind of an automatic expungement doctors are period of time. in massachusetts, for example, acres after a felony, employers

can see that information, but district attorneys can. we release the information in a way that is relevant to those who are utilizing that. i think i would come towards helping change the culture because people are overly concerned about some people's chances of reconnecting. we can separate out. >> i was going to ask you, it is the key kind of employers one by one or other public policies that good tilt this conversation in a way that's more days. >> that's a great question. policy and the driving culture offers and a significant amount of time. that's what organization change because we can address one employer. we have to have policies and legislation in place that protect people who've been in conflict with the criminal justice system.

lots of people talk about political will today. the political will will change as people adversely impact did are voting based upon their values. we have to identify individuals who will put forward our platform. we have to put them in office, hold them accountable to change policy and legislation which will ultimately change political will. >> william faulkner and the civil rights act said you cannot change their behavior. eventually the legal -- eventually their hearts will follow. >> naturism is bad in journalism. the da plays a great thing. my job is to find the best practice anywhere and replicated here in philadelphia. last night >> i am not a black woman. i did not attend princeton university. the point is if our goal is to stop people from selling drugs

on the street, we can figure out how to do that other than locking people in state prison for a long time and see the consequences after that. i stole an idea from the attorney general of california. she called it back on track. spending $40,000 a year, sending people to state prison where we had a recidivism rate of 63%. when it came out, they got rearrested. far left or far right wing was terrible. we have a program called the choice is yours if we take the young men and women who go to state prison for two years or more and instead we take a timeout. they enter a no contest plea and we gave them life skills training, show up on time, pull your pants up, literacy training, job skills training.

if they successfully complete the program in one year, we expunge the record. and only costs about $4000 a year to do that and the recidivism rate has been about 8%. what is the goal with empirical data and lets make it work. that is one example. >> one of the things i would like for us to do, like secretary russell suggested, look at data more closely. what was described as a solution that worked. why can we do that on the front end when kids are in school, we start to understand what their needs are, what their posttraumatic history is and why can we provide those services outside the criminal justice contest. what we have in our system is child welfare. that is the first glimpse of what kids trajectory is going to be. we see kids abuse and neglect it all the time. often times those are the same people funneled through criminal

justice system. we never include that in the conversation. if we put our resources on the front end, hopefully we can stop the cycle. i don't see much correlation that goes on between criminal justice stakeholders that take the population and identify them as kids with disabilities. >> this may be more for the mayor. but can you stop the site without doing with the poverty that we are now seeing. three quarters of african-american students now attend schools for a majority of their classmates qualify as poor or low income, two thirds of hispanics, you can have a lot of interventions in school, but when you do without buffalo concentrated economic isolation, are you always disappointed in the results? >> i think the mayor almost would agree. he said much more eloquently than i could do 34% of our city are at or below the national populace. we have the greatest percentage

living at or below the poverty level and the greatest antipoverty however they define. until we address job opportunity, educational opportunities, making the public school system in philadelphia a place that everyone will send their children, we will continue to see the same principles. >> where we spend the money is where we get the result. as we watch the secretary, the budgets that they allocate to criminal justice, talking about a prison system and invest $2.4 billion a year. the city of philadelphia recently passed a budget close to almost $300 for county prison, which hollers core and drug addicted individuals. how much money are we spending on social service and reentry efforts. how much money are we spending on these poor communities that we know are going to eventually

end up in our prison system. we are getting a proper return on investment. >> even in poor communities there's a need for order and safety and its even greater. >> we have to hold people accountable. we have to look at services on the front end. we cut down services for mental health of the community. we are spending that money. los angeles county is the number one and the prison system. cook county is third. we need to provide mental health assessments, much earlier than gradeschool. give people the the help they need early. not let them act out, hurt someone, get arrested, but a prison. >> let me break in the audience for questioning. there has been this debate is certainly a little bit this week about the role of the crime bill of 1994, which is very controversial. one thing that isn't controversial is the revival we see in cities, with many cities

showing economic dynamism might not have been possible without the reduction and all large cities have seen since the early 1990s. how do you kind of, in your mind, weigh the importance of reducing crime as part of the overall economic vitality of cities? >> reductions in crime for the highest in the early 90s to the level now of the late 60s has been tremendously important and a number of ways for economic development, survival of cities, for everyone's sense of well-being. now is the time to capitalize on not and reverse some of the overreach accomplished at the same time. they were things we could talk about about how to do that and the long sentences that were part of the effort as well. we don't need the same kind of apparatus put into place. >> let's go to the audience.

hopefully you can answer questions. do we have questions? we've got one in the back. there we go. go die. >> hi. my name is kenny show marks. i actually worked at the defender here. i have a question about detainer's, probation detainer's in particular. i'm not -- i'm talking about technical and direct violation. the technical, where we thought people up as opposed to giving them drugs or alcohol assistance when that is usually the technical violations are. as well as potential direct violation would seem in my mind to undermine the constitutional right to innocent until proven guilty. if you can talk a little bit about that. >> so, what i would say

vis-à-vis a culture shift. we put people on probation. it doesn't mean they will come out and become wall street executives. we have to understand progress. what we don't do often times in our system is how they tolerate her progress. i don't know if this is the answer to your question in terms of the constitutionality of innocent until proven guilty, but we are talking about the back end. we talked about the backend and a lot of the legislation put in place to continue to punish people, even after they serve their sentences. the aba has found 900 legislative acts that affect people with criminal justice records. that is a lot of legislation being pushed out to people who don't even see the impact and for those who don't even have to measure the impact. some of it is how do we use our system if we are so no tolerance when it comes to people on probation and we can't recognize

progress, we are always going to get the same result and make people more desperate because they lose so much more. >> part of the answer i would also give as it will help us reduce come attacked about the prison population and how large it is. about 60% to 70% are people awaiting trial or as the young lady has pointed out, found to be in violation are they detainer adhering. we can address that. through what is called a reporting. so i would like to create the reason we have bail before trial is we are either were are either worried the person will not show up because they have a record of failing to appear or because the cases south is so severe. a lot of people instead of locking them up and having three shifts a guard's watch them all day and that's giving the medicine and feeding them all day, we can have them go to a place not far from their homes in the neighborhood where they have the job. they won't have to lose their

job or apartment or house and they go in the evening for maybe two hours. while they are there they might get some literacy training, drug and alcohol addiction talking group with folks. that would be a way to reduce the prison population, get population, get people the service they need and keep it moving. >> can we shake on that? >> for the people that had their convention last week, it saved money. greater outcomes than i will save us money. >> somehow that makes you arafat and rabin. >> can ask a final question, which going back to something i asked the mayor, the city has set the ambitious goal. can i maybe go down the road. but will be the biggest obstacle to meeting the goal? >> the biggest obstacle is for everyone to take a real honest look at their practices and decide we have to change them.

also, today reported don't have to have a backend. they should have been on the front end. not enough community resources available. there has to be something for them to do. if we miss the piece, we will never succeed in understanding how well this will work. >> the biggest obstacle is getting elected officials to reallocate or disinvest from criminal justice as they currently are. 300 million is too much money. 2.4 billion is too much money. a portion of those monies need to go to doing things with the whole that you have other things that will equal opportunity. >> i think we are going to be successful. i think our success -- it will take the political will to use empirical data for das in public and not just adversarial relationships but to be problem solvers.

we will solve the problem in philadelphia. the reason macarthur gave us the grand so we can then be a beacon of hope for other jurist actions of what they can do, learn from us to replicate that. >> you think the path he laid out and see they are laid out and see they are or are you adjusting and recalibrating us to go? >> that happens every day. we talk about what is working, what is not working. they will be bumps and hiccups along the way. we have to readjust and keep it moving. >> do we know how other municipalities have successfully reduced their jail populations? >> yeah, the key thing is they are all working on it at the same time. the criminal justice system as people respond to the prosecutors, respond to the jailers. what you need is everybody doing it at the same time to make a reform stick. it's very easy to fall back into old patterns. >> the panel has been terrific. thank you very much.

i hope you will benefit the atlantic website and take a look at our neck america page, cutting-edge reporting on issues every day. third, our next event this afternoon will focus on young women voters and how political parties better understand them. join us at 4:45 p.m. for and are kim went and young women leaders. thank you and enjoy your afternoon. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> a reminder if you missed any of this discussion on criminal justice reform, you can watch it anytime in our video library at c-span.org. but we'll have more from this event hosted by the atlantic coming up today at 4:00 with a panel on women and politics

currently in a golf cart driver and the wells fargo center where the convention will be held. we are here with ben's duster. what is your official role here at the t.? >> i am a runner. when i am not working, basically i'm a creative intern. >> how did you get this job? >> i got this job basically any and turned right now get to drive around golf carts and help people get around the dn easier. >> what are your official duties as a runner? my official duties are due pickup and a talent, any anchors, any people like that.

also, when i'm not picking up anyone, i can pick up anyone who needs a ride. >> pick us up this afternoon we are by now the southwest side of the wells fargo center. where'd you go go to college? >> i'm studying media and communications. >> would you want to do when you graduate? >> when i graduated what to do something in film. i've been working a lot on our social media and creating videos for a face to pages stuff like that. i want to get into something more with writing or filming, direct income of that kind of stuff. >> looking ahead at the skyline of philadelphia, you will see over my right shoulder here is the main front entrance that you have likely seen by many of the shots. you are the more interesting people you picked up along the way?

>> right now i haven't gotten anyone that important. i've gotten a couple cnn correspondents. i -- i saw a couple governors. one dude was wearing cowboy boots. basically that's pretty much it. >> what are you most excited to see this week? >> i hope to see some politicians. i would be most excited to meet interesting people and talk to people like you. having a good time doing this. >> when you had that cool? >> i will be heading back to school at the end of august. by intership will be absent. >> what year are you in school? >> i am a junior. an upcoming junior. >> and sasser, appreciate the concentration as you are driving here. we will show you some of the standups to the right and the philadelphia skyline over there directly opposite of the wells

fargo center. where are you staying in town? >> right now i'm close enough to get into town from i 76 so i can stay in new jersey where i live. it is pretty easy. nothing too bad. >> appreciate the ride around the wells fargo center. we will end by showing some of the media satellite trucks on the right, taking up most of the parking lot outside of the wells fargo center. you will see the shot here in just a sec and of the location for the democratic national convention is happening all week long.

>> the most important issue to me facing our country today is done control because too many people that should not access to guns have access to guns. they make me and many other people feel in faith. >> and a state senator here in pennsylvania, montgomery delaware county. i'm not made to mention because i'm a huge history buff and i'd love to be part of his great and witness what is going on. i am here representing my district for hillary clinton who is awesome and inspiring and knowing the stakes in this election, it's important at every stage of the game. looking forward to a great week. we will see you out there. >> i'm from lumber, north carolina. i'm in 19 or college student. i am so happy to be here to be a delegate to cousin 2008 i sat on the sidelines as the young sixth-grader in rural north carolina. this year i get to see history

take place as a delegate to the democratic national convention. >> my name is kim weaver and i am the congressional candidate from ohio candidate from iowa's fourth congressional district. some of you may have heard of my opponent, steve king. he is one of the reasons i am here today. in part because i want to show the rest of the world that iowans are more concerned about finding solutions than they are about creating division. we want to look for solutions for student that reformed, medicaid for seniors of security for all families. thank you. >> on a delegate representing west valley city utah. i ran to be a delegate. i believe government should work for the poor, for the common people. i decided to become a delegate this year because i want to to fight for those -- for the

little people and i wanted to make sure that you saw had a voice on the democratic as. >> this morning, republican pridential candidate donald trump addressed the national convention of the veterans of foreign wars. he was joined by his running mate, vice presidential candidate and indiana governor, mike pence. >> may i have your attention, please? comrades, sisters to the convention, please welcome this next guest. our next guest is an american businessman and television analogy and author now politician. he was born in queens, new york and attended fordham, university in the bronx before entering the

wharton school of finance and commerce at the university of pennsylvania, where he would earn a bachelor's degree in economics. comrades, may i present to you the republican party nominee to become the next president of the united states, mr. donald jay trump. ♪ ♪

♪ >> thank you very much, everybody. thank you. thank you very much. [cheers and applause] what a privilege to be here with the incredible, and i mean incredible men and women of the veterans of foreign wars. [cheers and applause] and we said today an all-time registration record. that is pretty good. congratulations to you. spending time with our veterans has been the greatest honor of this campaign. i want to thank commander-in-chief, big john and really for the welcome he has been so fantastic from the time

we walked in, he has been so fantastic. many thanks to bob wallace, jessica gilford and for your incoming leadership. you have brien duffy and call it a ship. two terrific people. [cheers and applause] two terrific people. before going any further today, i would like to bring up to the stage, my good friend, governor mike pence. [applause] by the way, mike is the son of a soldier and father of a marine. mike. [applause] >> thank you, mr. tromp. thank you, commander. it is an honor to greet you all at the 107 teen vfw where no one does more for veterans. thanks for all you do.

it is an honor to stand with donald trump today. it is even a greater honor for me to stand with those of you who have worn the uniform of the united states. as mr. tromp just that, i was not a soldier, but i have the son of a combat veteran who served in korea. and i am the proud father of a united states marine and i feel a great indebtedness to all of you who served. and i'm proud of the record we have in the state of indiana. you will be glad to know and indiana, more than 500,000 veterans call home. we have made extraordinary commitments. we have more than doubled department of veteran tears, increase the number of service office is tenfold from seven to 72 counties. i'm proud to say that hoosier state has the second lowest unemployment rate for veterans

in the united states of america. [cheers and applause] but i answered this call. when donald trump, i answered this call for a few very simple reasons. number one, i answered it because in these challenging times, i believe we need renewed and strong american leadership at home and abroad. donald trump will bring that leadership for this nation. [cheers and applause] our military is too small and he will rebuild it. [cheers and applause] rva is broke and end this builder will fix that. [cheers and applause] it is extraordinary to think that yesterday in philadelphia, 61 speakers came to the podium and not one of them named isis by name.

this man will name our enemy is without apology and he will defeat them. [cheers and applause] so i stayed thank you to the vfw. i stayed thank you to my new boss, a man who has given me the privilege to run at third as vice president of the united states of america. i pledge to you, to each of you that if we had the privilege to serve, i know this man's heart. i hear the way he speaks and the cameras are off about those who served and those who have served and we will ensure that our soldiers have the resources they need to complete their mission and come home safe and we will stand as the vfw does who have worn the battle of their shoulders. we shall stand with our veteran and we shall see our way forward as a nation. thank you very much. god bless you and god bless the

united states of america. [cheers and applause] >> thank you, mike. eggs again to everyone for inviting me to address you today. the veterans -- i love you, too. the veterans of foreign wars rep resent the very, very best of americans. when i am president, i pledge to work closely with the organization and your members to accomplish our shared goals. our veterans are the bravest and the finest people on earth. [applause] the members of your premise nation have fought for the american flag and boy have you thought on distant battlefields all across the world.

your members have shed their blood and poured out their hearts for this nation like nobody else. our debt to you is eternal. [applause] yet, our politicians have totally failed you. our most basic human and to provide health and medical care to those who fought for us so bravely has been violated completely. the va scandals that have occurred are widespread and totally inexcusable. as we know, many have died waiting for care that never came. a permanent stain on our government. can you imagine the wasted

corruption. i will tell you, we will find it and we will find it big-league when i become president in january 27 and. [cheers and applause] i have recently released a detailed pence said federated's reform plan. we have worked on the plan with the chairman of the veterans affairs committee of the house and a really good guy who loves the bad -- batteries, jeff miller. we are going to take care of our veterans like they have never been taken care of before. [applause] the other candidate in this race, you know her name. "crooked hillary" clinton.

believe me folks, she is crooked. has a much different view. she recently said of the va scandal that it is not as wide spread as it has been purported to be. it is like she is trying to sweep it under the rug. which by the way, politicians have done for years and years and years. former years at the same if she ever got an. bat is not going to happen. [applause] make america great again. you are brave. thank you. we know how she takes care of the veterans. just look at her invasion of libya and her handling of benghazi, it is fast air. or look at her e-mails, which could america's entire national security at risk.

and to think she was here yesterday. she didn't do very well. [cheers and applause] we are going to bring honesty back to government and that starts with 16 the veterans administration. we will fix it. here is my 10 step plan for veteran's reform. one, i will appoint a secretary of veterans affairs who will make it their personal mission to clean up the va. this person, man or woman, will be outstanding with a mouse and a truck record. [applause] in other words, a person can get

it done. number two, i am going to use every lawful authority to remove federal employees or managers who reach their public trust. three, i will ask congress to pass the bill giving the va senate or terry full authority to remove or disciplined an employee who risks to health, safety or well-being of a battering. [applause] i will appoint a commission to investigate all of the wrongdoing at the va of which there is plenty and present those findings to congress as a basis for reforming the entire system. ..

this could keep me very busy at night, folks. this will take place of twitter. [laughter] >> that is answered by a real person 24 hours a day to make sure that no valid complaint about the va ever falls through the cracks. [cheers and applause] >> now, this is the tough part,

this is the tough part, i will instruct my staff that if a valid complaint is not acted upon, then the issuer who brought it directly to me, will bring directly to me and i will pick up the phone personally completed and getting taken care of. that's a lot of work. we better do a good job because that's a lot of work, but i want to have somebody a real person, competent person in the white house with that hotline going and if that person is not doing a good job, that's the best way to find out about it. that's called business. instead of giving bonuses to employees for wasting money, we are going to create a incentive program and improving the quality of care.

[cheers and applause] >> our visa programs will be reformed to ensure that veterans are put in the front of the line for jobs in this country. [cheers and applause] >> they fought and they protect us, now we are going to fight them, they are going to be put right in the front of the line and these are our great people. and by the way, governor pence is right at the top of the nation in employment for vets, when he took over he was number 32 or 38, now he's right at the top. he has done an incredible job with respect to employment for vets. so mike, good going, keep it going. [applause] we are going to increase the number of mental healthcare professionals and increase mental health outreach to