huge collection on not just the folios but enough material on shakespeare to create the library. a fascinating story how it ended up in washington dc. i am also rereading the righteous mind, a book about communicating how we communicate in a more effective way. if you can picture an elephant and a rider on the elephant the elephant is making the decisions, the rider merely explains what the elephant is doing and a lot of times you talk to the rider who is not making the decisions, you ought to be talking to the elephant. it is a good way to remember that you should be talking to the elephant making the decisions, not the person explaining the decisions. in a time of a political arena it is important that we keep in mind who we ought to be talking

to. a book i am rereading. i am also reading a book at the national gallery a week or so ago called the accidental masterpiece. it is about how you see art and to me i am a great lover of art, every day objects, everywhere you look. an interesting book i picked up. you see by my office, i do my own art. and keep my day job here. reading, i want to mention, is foundational. i was not born in this country. english is not my first language. i credit a library and in elementary school who awakened my love of reading and i

remember the book, those who sit at her feet at the library and she read is mary poppins. that brought the love of reading for me which was foundational. you should be a reader. i am a pretty voracious reader. >> anything else you are reading this summer? >> i picked up -- i read as a new yorker compilation, short stories on the ipad, those are things i can read and when i have time, as i said, i have a number of those books on my ipad. the other thing i want to mention is often when you think of the books that change your way of thinking there is one book that did that for me when i

was in college. the feminine mystique, a light bulb went on when i read that book and i decided maybe my life was not going to consist of getting married and having children and having that life -- expanding my own horizons. i can honestly say that is the one book that designed my way of thinking of myself. brandeis >> booktv wants to know what you're thinking, two is your answer at booktv or posted on our facebook page, facebook.com/booktv. >> you are watching booktv on c-span2, television for serious readers. here is a look at what is on prime time tonight. we kick off the evening at 7:15 eastern with colorado governor john hicken looper.

that all happens tonight on c-span2's booktv. >> now the 18th annual harlem book fair in new york city. coming up over the next three hours panels on diversity and publishing and race in america. first, harlem book fair founder max rodriguez kicks off this year's book fair followed by a ms. -- elizabeth nunez discussing the state of

literature and black writers. >> good afternoon. thank you for joining us for the harlem book fair. [applause] >> thank you so much.

>> for us to continue building sustainable, useful cultural institutions. anything else that is projected onto us or projected about us. oftentimes when we have no place else to go, the only thing we can do is live on the state, in the state in which it's imposed on us. what eastern to that? what's the alternative to that? there we are clearly empowered. and that is the work of the harlem book fair, to stand a place, stand in a place from which we can name ourselves, we can set our direction, we can talk about our points of view.

[audio difficulty] in the space of collaborative partnerships, at the book fair you'll enjoy a program, at least you will meet the cast of a program that we've launched. it's a video, it's an online video program where four women discuss the books, the themes that are current in books that are available today, and we'll discuss them. much like a book club, much more intimate, much more real. and that's manager that we have produce -- that's something we have produced in collaboration with work with studios, my partner in this venture, qbr media, and also another program, writers on writing. sort of like a charlie rose type of interview. one-on-one. just bringing our work to the forefront because we can.

because we can. because we have voice -- [audio difficulty] next year we are launching a book festival in fort be worth, texas -- fort worth, texas. we're excited about that. this year -- no, not this year but, actually, next week we have a program that will take place at the metropolitan museum of art. another host partner, it's called black in the world, where we bring together authors from the diaspora to talk about what life looks like through books from where they are, africa, the u.k., the caribbean, brazil, the united states. black in the world. and then lastly, next year we are partnering with the gambia to launch a book festival there. that's going to be in january. there'll be a lot of promotion on that. you're all invited to come. put your $10 a week away and be

a guest of the harlem book fair as we launch the festival in the gambia. i guess in a nutshell, you know, that's it, that's the work. this is our story. there's no reason -- well, i'll say this, bad language, there's no reason for us to sit on our heels, to be pulled back on our heels. yes, of course, there is, but we have a place to go beyond that. and that is in your life, in your story, in your story being told. we're going to start today with something we start every year, the state of black writing. and our guest today, our harlem book fair author is elizabeth nunez. my la tee owe comes out --

latino comes out in me, right? nunez. she is a new york times best-selling author. her most current books are "even in paradise." her memoir is "not for everyday use: a memoir." she has seven books more. ten books, ten books, many of hem new york times bestsellers. and she's going to talk about literature by black writers. who are readers? there's always a conversation about who is there to read our books. this is that conversation. i want to tell you a little bit about elizabeth though. elizabeth is currently a distinguished professor at hunter college, city university of new york. we met when she was teaching at medgar evers college. elizabeth is the founder of the national black writers conference that happens every year at medgar evers college.

and elizabeth is the founder of that event. she asked me to come in to support her in her work, and from that point on we have been kindred spirits, you know? she's an amazing writer, an amazing voice, passionate about writing, passionate about work, passionate about our stories. lastly, i want to acknowledge you, the audience, and especially the younger of us in the audience. i want you to know that, that one day you can be here as a writer, as a speaker, you know? you have voice. you don't have to condition your voice. you don't have to qualify your voice. be your voice. be your voice and let that lead you. i'd like to take a moment to thank you very much, so let's begin the book fair. elizabeth? [applause]

[inaudible conversations] >> thank you for being here. i want to thank max rodriguez. as he said, we began collaborating maybe 20 years ago when we were each 12 years old, right, max? when i was doing the national black writers conference and max joined me. he is a good friend. my mentor, john oliver kilns, who co-founded the conference with me, used to talk about long distance runners. he would say you can make a

sprint, but who's the guy who can go all the way? and max is a long distance runner. he's a visionary. he's remained focused on his goal. and as he said, this is the 18th time he's doing this book festival and has done for in more other -- for many other events as he has described. so i want to sort of -- i'm going to name my topic. my topic is literature by black writers. who are the readers? who are the readers of literature by black writers? i want to start with a disclaimer. i was speaking to max, and i said, you know, max be, i don't want this panel to be called black literature: who are the readers? and that difference is important to me, and i want to tell you why. it is because i don't buy into

the theory that there is a genre called black literature. i believe there is only well-written literature or badly-written literature. and we can debate what's good and what's well written and what's not so well written at another time. but as for the genres of literature, there are categories like romance, history, epic, tragedy, comedy, satire, etc., etc. and as far as i know, black writers write books that include all those genres. black writers write books that are history, epic be, romance, tragedy, comedy, satire, etc. the argument that because the writers are black and because their topics are generally about the black experience, one could thus conclude that that constitutes a genre called black literature. i believe this kind of thinking

leads us down a rabbit hole to which there is no exit or else a perniciously dangerous exit. indeed, such thinking impacts directly on the question of what it means to be human. let me clarify. black writers are not a special brand of human being, and the black characters they write about are not a special brand of human beings. they are all simply and wonderfully human. the paragon of animals. so to speak directly to my topic, why do so many assume that books by black writers are of interest only to black readers? take a tour of any major bookstore, and you'll see what i mean. you'll see there are special sections for books that are african-american interests, and then there are other sections of -- in the bookstores that are

categorized according to their subjects or according to their authors. recently i went into one of these big bookstores, and you can guess which one, and right in front of the store were two huge tables labeled african-american interests. i saw books by some major black writers including books by marlon james who won last year's book award. the store was crowded, but the only people around those tables, african-american interests, were black people. what is one to assume? let me say right away as a disclaimer that i believe bookstores think they're doing something right. they're doing something good by creating sections based on the race of the writer, in this case black writers.

they believe they're providing a special place for black writers so that those who may be interested in books by black writers who they assume would only be black readers can find these books conveniently. let me also say that publishers target -- and this is the dangerous part -- publishers target their marketing and distribution dollars to black readers for the very same reason. but here is the problem. bookstores and publishers do this because their assumptions are based on their concept of the word. and their concept of the word is based on the word in which -- the world in which they live where they rarely have occasion to interact with black readers. for the fact is, the publishing industry is a white industry. 79% of the overall publishing industry is white.

and by that i mean the publishers, the editors, the agents, the publicists, the book reviewers, the distributers, the booksellers. 79% is white. and that's not my statistics, by the way. that is publishers weekly a statistics that came out in march of this year. what is more dangerous is that 82% of the editorial departments and the editorial departments are the departments that decide which books are going to be published and which distributed. 82% of the editorial departments in this country are white. in her recent book "mounting frustrations: the art museums in the age of black power," the writer susan cahan makes a similar observation about art

museums where there are few african-american curators or even white curators who have knowledge of art by black artists. the result is, she says, that art by people of color is often shown in marginal spaces. as i'm saying about bookstores. one person exhibitions are the preferred method of showing the work of minority artists. as they provide curators a way to avoid engaging with the problems of complicated, interlocking histories. is that what the publishing industry and some readers fear? do they fear that books by black writers will force white readers to engage with problems of america's complicated and interlocking histories of its treatment of black americans?

new research has revealed that slavery in america was not limited to the south, and there's a new book out -- i don't have the name right at the top of my head -- that shows that new england puritans had slaves x there's a direct link -- and there's a direct link between the profits of slavery and the emergence of northernties including, yes, new york city. this is tough information to digest. in my memoir, "not for everyday use," i call about a colleague of mine whose father had come to america from eastern europe when he was a young adult. maybe be, i think maybe 20 or so. my colleague argues that her father's success was unrelated to america's treatment of its black citizens. neither he, nor his family

members were in america during slavery times, he says, nor in jim crow times, nor during the civil rights movement. then i reminded my friend about how her father managed to accumulate close to a million dollars for his children. you see, two decades ago my grandfather and my ex ex were bh looking to purchase a house in long island with a view of the water. my ex was shown a house on long beach road. beach was the operative word that the realtor used to persuade my ex. the realtor did not add the long part meant there was a long way to the beach. [laughter] but he took my friend to a canal, to a house on a canal. my friend's father could not afford beach, but he took him to a house that faced the canal. both my ex and my friend's father paid $34,000 more their

houses. long, long time ago. they sold their houses not too long ago. my ex got $174,000 for his house. my friend's father got close to a million dollars. the history of american racism, you see, has long tentacles. giving economic advantage even to recent white immigrants who benefit from racism even if they themselves were not there during those periods. so, but books by black writers not only engage white readers with the consequences of america's interlocking history of its treatment of black americans, but they also provide a mirror in which we can all recognize our common humanity. like all writers, black writers

focus on the specifics because they know that by drilling down on the specifics of their characters, they will arrive at the truth about all human condition. what is it to love, what is it to lose love, what is it to hope, what is it to despair. black writers write these topics, but more often than not they explore these topics to the facets of the human condition, to the -- through characters who are black. so here's the challenge for me. the challenge for the predominantly white publishing industry is to accept that truth. that means that the players in the industry should market books by black writers not as books that should appeal only to black readers, but rather as books that have universal appeal, that can give us a window to the challenges that all human beings face. how to overcome fear, how to overcome despair, temptation,

how to be our most loving severals. i see i have very little time, so i'm going to go almost to the end. i think much of the blame -- no be, i'm going to go a little bit before that. there's a norwegian writer that everybody is reading lately, and he was trying to make sense of the slaughter of 75 children in norway. and he made this powerful statement. he said the most powerful human forces are to be found in the meeting of the faith and the gays. only there do we exist for one another. in the gaze of the other, we become. it is there, too, that we can be destroyed. being unseen is devastating and so is not seeing. i think much of the blame for the recent racial tensions we are experiencing today is because we live an experienced

life in silos. there are laws that made segregation be illegal, yet our neighborhoods are segregated, our children go to schools both public and private that are segregated, we worship in churches that are segregated, our social venues are segregated. and you could say none of this is intentional. people just feel more comfortable with others like themselves. but witness the consequences. how is it that only now white america seems to realize what black parents have known for ages, that their black sons could die simply for driving black or for being black in the wrong place at the wrong time. books by black writers about black characters give us access to the experiences, to the black experiences in the black world. books by black writers allow us

to's -- to access the faith and gaze of black people. books by black writers give all peoples of the to world a chance to see themselves in the face and gaze of others. books by black writers allow us to see our common humanity and, thus, to break down barriers that separate us. i was struck by the conclusion of ta'nehisi coates, the conclusion he comes to in his remarkable book, "between the world and me." he does not exonerate rogue police officers who kill innocent young men. but this is what he does: he blames the legacy of america's history for endowing police departments with the authority to destroy the black body. books by black writers offer america the opportunity to revisit that history through the lens of black characters, to see the south through the eyes of

the other, to recognize and acknowledge our common humanity. and so, defuse the possibility of more violence, winding the path to a more humane world. without books by black writers and a diversity of readers who read them -- not simply black readers, but white readers, all readers -- there is a grim possibility of the warning of the consequences of not being seen and not seeing, and it

>> okay. can you hear me? >> no. i think you need your mic. >> hello? >> try it now. >> you hear me now?

>> my father illustrated and wrote beautiful daughters, and my mother, who is also an artist, met my father in art and design high school. so, you know, what else would happen but have an artistic child? >> thank you. fantasia. >> hello, everyone, can you hear he? [inaudible conversations] >> just keep talking? okay.

i am the head of teen services at the public library. [inaudible conversations] i see shaking heads. i could try to project my voice. this better? okay. i'm the head of teen services at the public library located in nassau county out in the boonies of long island as some people view it. i'm long island born and bred, raised in freeport. i know about long beach road -- [laughter] and the different parts of it. and i've been a teen librarian for close to 12 years now. so i'm responsible for fifth through twelfth graders who want to utilize our public library. >> okay -- [inaudible] >> i wear many hats in the world of publishing. i have a firm called the literary media publishing consultants. we manage a lot of major african-american authors, and two of them are here this afternoon on program.

as well as i'm the founder of the african-american children's book project. we produce the largest and oldest single-day event for african-american children in the country. and i'm also a contributor to the best -- [inaudible] we have an initiative this year every friday. we present an african-american children's author or illustrator as well as i host a program, a segment on books travel entertainment on the i heart radio station which is broadcast in philadelphia, so i'm wearing a lot of hats today. >> well, as you all can see, we have a distinguished panel here today x i'm going to announce and start with some questions for them. so my first question and, actually, these are questions just for the panel, so so feel free to jump in. the first question is african-american children see themselves in books to promote self-esteem and develop their interest in reading. how do you feel and what would

you say about that? stacy? right, start with you. >> well, i think that being able to see a reflection, there's a really wonderful article from the '80s i want to say, windows, mirrors and sliding glass doors by bishop which i highly recommend reading if you've never gotten a chance to read it. the idea of being able to see yourself in a book, the concept of a mirror book is really important when you're talking about the numbers that, of children's books out there that are mirrors versus windows for african-american children. there just respect enough. they are out there, but they're just -- we need more. so i think that that's important for being able to feel like you can be a hero in your own story. >> fantasia, do you want to stay something? -- say something? >> well, it's definitely important for a child especially as they're growing up to be able to see themselves in the books

that they read even in terms of looking forward in their futures. maybe if you have an inspiring author who -- aspiring author who may not have taken that path because they may not have read a book as a child that featured a child who was african-american, maybe asian to let them though that this is a possibility for them. so especially as a public librarian, it's about being inclusive, and that's really our duty, our mission as librarians, to try to include everyone in the community especially in terms of exploring their possibility. >> thank you. >> i also think validation is really important. children are going through all sorts of experiences in their life. you never know what will make their child secure or insecure about who they are and -- so

what i was saying is validation is important. children are having all sorts of experiences. if they don't see their experience, then they think that their experience is not valid. it's less than. and there must be something wrong with them if everybody else's experience is written about, but no one is writing about their experience. so i think it's important for the myriad of experiences of black people to be explored in books and all types of media, because our children need that validation that they're important and their lives are being respected. >> okay. georgia nay. >> i grew up in a generation

where children's books, your first children's book was probably dick and jane. and that was the image that you, was presented to you. and to see yourself in a book, i remember the first time i ever saw myself, an image of myself in a children's book, and it was an a that moment. i remember -- aha moment. i remember the first time, i can still remember the first time i read a story about harriet tubman. they at no time discuss harriet tubman in my generation, but i read this book about langston hughes, and the more i read, the more it head me feel proud -- made me feel crowd of my heritage. the panelists are saying the same thing, children need to see images of themselves in these books because it enriches their lives, it empowers them and enlightens them. and not just african-american children should read books about african-americans, but all children. becausewe're going to be in an inclusive society, we need to see some diversity. >> thank you.

and speaking about diversity in children's books, in addition to that, that article that i'm referencing from walter dean meyers, there's a quote in the article that i found that i wanted to ask the panel about. so the quote is books transmit values. what is the message when some children are not represented in those books? what message do you think is being sent out to the wider audience? >> i don't, i don't think -- you know, we focus a lot on what isn't and what, what should be, and we don't focus in on what is. >> okay. >> and i'm really trying to keep telling people over and over again that the message that's out there is that books exist about our children. they're wonderful books, you know? if you wanted to talk to your child about why it's important to read, give them brian

collier's days of potter or. it was against the law, punishable by death if you could read. he became creative by weaving his poetry into pots. this is a true story. and you teach a child that being able to read is manager that's -- is something that's a gift, that you need to utilize it. children are taught how to be resourceful when you teach them these diverse stories. so we need to focus on not just on why you need diverse books, but talk a lot more about what exists out there in the marketplace. and javaka's book is a classic. in daddy's arms i'm strong. there are so many books written about african-american men and what they weren't doing, daddy's not here, daddy's not this, daddy's not that. and he wrote this wonderful book about how in his african-american father's arms he was strong. so that resonated across the board about how you share a love of reading to a child, but also

you empower them through the words on those pages. >> so, javaka, would you like to comment on vanessa's statement about your book, in daddy's arms i'm strong? [inaudible conversations] >> i mean, i guess number one i want to say thank you. [laughter] and, i mean, i do think it's important to focus on the positives. and that neglect negative things that are out there, because it's important to know both sides of the story. but if all we do is focus on what's not happening, we're not envisioning the future. we're not seeing what are the possibilities. >> right. >> you know, what can truly be. i know i watch a lot of netflix, and at a certain point i have to stop.

and the reason i have to stop is because i noticed a pattern. number one, i noticed that there are lots of really interesting movies with white characters that are very compelling, and then when they have the title black interests, the quality really goes down. and the thing is, is that i know so many creative people in new york who have really interesting ideas that are doing things that are really astounding, and all we can really find is, like, these small little television programs that don't really mean much. it makes me angry.

and i'm just, i just know, like, as a child growing up not seeing yourself, what else can it do but say to the world that you're not important, you know? >> right. >> and so, you know, like virginia he's saw said -- vanessa said, let's focus on getting the information out. let's focus on showing people books that are high quality, books that, you know, are really visionary and would really, you know, just bring new worlds to children. >> thank you. as a children's librarian, young adult librarian, tell me be, how do you get the books out to children, and what do do you do when they come into your branch? >> oh, i like that question. i call it my professional hustle, to to speak. as a lie brain -- librarian, i

don't believe in sitting at the reference desk and waiting for people to come to me. i'm very aware of the community -- [inaudible] it's majority african-american, caribbean, african, hispanic. i want books on my shelves in my teen department that look like those teens. and, for example, there's a brooklyn writer, michael grant. he wrote the book team about a caribbean girl growing up in brooklyn x. it's not something you see all the time. when the book came in -- it's on one of my displays. we have displays that focus focus on activism. again, the caribbean experience, the african experience. all of these different aspects of things that are in our community. and in this -- [inaudible] displays or just doing my advisory -- [inaudible] by showing, physically handing the books to patrons, we also have book discussions where i try to keep titles that even if

it's not written by a black author, if it's done well, for example, the book -- [inaudible] was written -- it's a love story about a young haitian girl living in flatbush in brooklyn, and she falls in love with a white boy really. but it was done so well that our community embraced it. i have one family, the uncle was visiting from haiti. this is a grown man. he was in a book discussion with teens because he was like, wait, this is a book about -- there's tons in it that i understand. it has variances that my great niece or maybe my younger relatives have experienced and relate it to this country. so there are all sorts of professional hustles that i incorporate into my service to get these books out and to let our teens know that i'm looking for these titles, we care about what they read, and we also care about their cultures. and they can find these things here at the library. >> thank you.

so talking about professional hustles, stacy, how do you hustle your books into bookstores, libraries? let us know. >> well, i actually wanted to, first, address what javaka was saying about the idea of being able to see a future, because that's actually why i founded two books. i actually started as a small -- [inaudible] saw what we were doing and acquired it back in 2010. and we started out just doing science fiction and fantasy which is a genre that is really not very welcoming to people of color historically. and i saw that i had a lot of friends of color who just weren't into science fiction and fantasy, and it, and that's why we do what we do. we want to be able to give kids of color basically a big old sign that says you're welcome here. you're welcome in the future. back when i was just starting it, i went to a book signing by

sherman alexei who is native american, and i told him what i was doing. he's like, yeah, we need more indians in space. and the idea of being able to see yourself in the future here on earth and anywhere in the world, i think, is so to important for all kids. and so what we do is we get the books to where the kids are. we get them in the schools, we get them into libraries. we're not as strong in bookstores because of the kinds of things that elizabeth was talking about earlier. sometimes bookstores are not as strong, but i think that we need diverse books movement has really opened some eyes in the greater book industry, and we're hoping to see some change soon. >> thank you. so you've heard how they get books in, what type of marketing done in the libraries. virginia he's saw, you talked about you have a festival, so

what would you look for to bring to this festival? >> well, i wanted to address her statement and elizabeth's statement. >> okay. >> i've been in the world of publishing for 25 years, and i was there at the beginning of the african-american literary renaissance when books were jumping off the shelf and every bookseller from independents and chain stores wanted to have african-american books in their stores. one of the issues now, obviously, is there are more independents even though people keep saying there are less. a lot of people are coming back into the business x. there are also a lot of big box, chain stores. consumers have to ask for these back books. you have to demand this. you have to go into your local bookstore in your community and say i want to have these books. and i guarantee you that i will go and buy. we keep putting the, you know, the negativity, the shell on the publishers or the authors. consumers have a responsibility. publishing is a business, and

whenever i say this, people get upset. publishing is a business. and if you buy it, they will produce it. and until people begin to understand a that, it is not going to change this whole issue of not having books in bookstores in your community or even african-american bookstores. there's a distributer, he was here earlier this morning, he's based in baltimore. he services 50 african-american bookstores around the country, and they are interested in having children's books. but most of the time publishers won't go to him, don't know him and haven't done their research. we are out there, and that's one of the reasons why my book fair has been so successful. >> all right. >> we sell more books than any other african-american retailer in the entire country in two and a half hours. >> great. hold that note because stacy is a publisher and i have a question for her that will piggyback off what you just said. stacy, so as a white publisher,

what criteria do you have when it comes to publishing books about children of color? the second part of the question is how do you find authors' manuscripts and the selections of characters and storylines? >> so our motto is about everyone, for everyone. we believe that our books are like what you're talking about, elizabeth, our books are not just if they star an african-american, that they're for african-americans. we believe that everybody should read this awe many book, you know, kind of -- awesome book kind of a thing. so what i look for when i'm reading hand you scripts is i look for a good story. but there's also going to be a component because i'm white that there are some things that i don't know. i've had to do a lot of learning. it's been a big learning curve over the last six years of making sure that i know what i'm looking for. and we use cultural experts, actually, for when i don't know what i don't know. so say i get a hawaiian manuscript by a white author.

we're going to run that by somebody who is actually hawaiian to make sure that, you know, that person did their research and is not only telling a good story, but doing it in a way that is culturally authentic and so on and so forth. and so i'm always just looking for a good story, but i'm also thinking about where our gaps are. we have literacy experts on our sales team that are going into the schools and selling our books to the schools, but also hearing feedback from the teachers and librarians saying why don't you have books about this, why don't you have books about that? so we p listen to that, and we start looking for books on those subjects that fill a gap that teachers are looking to fill. >> thank you. so javaka, as an author, when you submit your man you scripts, what do you do, and and what do you put into it and how do you solicit them?

>> first of all, i'm taking subjects that i'm thoroughly interested in. so, i mean, as someone who writes, how can you write about something if you're not totally immersed in whatever that experience, you know, is going to be. what i, what i do is i try my best to make a final copy and, of course, it's going to be edited. it's always edited. especially, you know, it's the nature of the beast. but i put a manuscript together, and then i also might have a sample illustration, and i'll send it off to whoever. it is that -- i'll send the book to. and the editor that i'm sending this manuscript to and illustration is not a random person. you have to do your research,

you have to make sure whoever you're sending it to publishes the type of books that you are creating. and the reason why you want to do that is because no one's going to reinvent the wheel for you. publishing companies already have a line of distribution, they already have a sales team that has been prepped in a certain way. and so you want to create something or you want to go with a publisher who fits right into what you're doing so that you can fit right into their machine. and, you know, have a good time as opposed to fighting and arguing with the book company because they're not getting what you're doing. >> so with that said, tell us about -- >> you mind if i follow up? >> no, follow up. >> just follow up on what you were saying.

on the publisher side, we're actively looking for writers of color because of the immersion that you're talking about. i think it's possible for people to write cross-culturally, but i think it's really important -- the numbers that you were sharing earlier, the numbers of actual books by people of color about people of color are even lower than the numbers of books about people of color. so it's really important to get people of color who are writing about their own experiences out there in the world more and more. so we're actively looking for that. we even run writing contests every year looking for new writers of color. >> but the publishing industry also has to address how are they marketing these weeks to the african-american -- these books to the african-american community. we buy books in a different way than the mainstream community. we look for books, for example, church and social and civic organizations that are opportunities more people to buy books. and as i was discussing, my book fair is successful.

we get about 4500 people in the dead of winter, february, when it could be the coldest day, maybe snow on the ground. because people can't find books at any other time of the year. so they wait all year long to buy books. there's also a limited amount of marketing and promotion done to promote these authors. that's an important come opponent. we have to know about javaka. we're not going to stumble on him if nobody set him up for an interview or sent down a leaflet or a flier, put his book in front of the bookstore window. the other thing that's crucial, to make books available to consumers. we create an event, and we tell people this is a major event, you've got to come. people get excited. we also sell books so that kids can see them. when a child walks up and it's at eye level instead of putting them on the shelf the traditional way, they see the outline of the to book.

they're more inclined to want to read that book. and we've got to begin to ask our children what are your interests. if you like romance and you like thrillers, i'm going to give you a thriller or, i'm going to give you romance. and be we have to begin to ask our children, what are your interests. and that's where the reading experience begins. >> so with that said, syntesia, public libraries, we buy books. but we don't sell a book. so what would you recommend to parents that might come in and say i want to build a children's library for my child at home? i want to build a library for my child at home? >> i would recommend to parents don't be -- [inaudible] don't be shy. say what you want. we as librarians are here to help you, we're there to serve you. your tax dollars are paying our salary. if you see a collection at your local library that doesn't reflect your children orif you need suggestions to build that personal library at home, can ask us.

if we don't know, we're trained researchers, we're going to go find out where we can find what you need. i brought with me, this is a journal that a young adult librarian -- [inaudible] the june issue of -- [inaudible] and it's dedicated to diversity in literature and also in publishing. and these are the tools that we use to serve you. so i always, i tell my patrons all the time, speak up. sometimes we may unknowingly be lacking in certain areas. but if you let us know, you're helping us to serve you better. >> and with that said, talk about the mission of the caucus. >> see, we are black librarians caucus incorporated. [laughter] it's a wonderful organization in a sense that in terms of librarians, sometimes i come out here to the city or the boroughs, i get jealous because

you have a lot of librarians of color serving your community. for those of us out in nassau county, suffolk county, other parts of the nation, it's not the case. it helps professionals in terms of development, it connects us, we network, we share resources, ideas, programs that are designed for our communities. so it's a nonprofit organization. and what's even were the is that you do not have to be a librarian to join. so we have a web site, you can go on to the web site. we have a president who's a wonderful president, a past president and others who are in the room who will take your membership application -- [laughter] if you would like to join us to educate others about black folks, literature, librarian issues. >> okay. so, stacy mentioned a study that i was talking about earlier, and it's by the cooperative children's book center. now, the cooperative children's

book center receives books, and from what they've received in the last three years, i talked about in 2013 disease 3200 books were received by only 68 african-americans, but they were about, written about african-americans. there were 93. so for 2014 we see a little increase. there were 3500 books published, but of that number, 84 were by african-americans. but 180 were about african-americans. now for 2015 it was a drop. they only received 3400 books to review, but it was an increase by 106 african-americans and also about 259 african-americans. this was last updated april 5, 2016. so for the panel, with these numbers, hearing these numbers, what do you think will be the best solution to get -- i know that you talked about the publishers and that the consumers need to go out and get in touch with publishers and

request different books and things of that nature. javaka's an author, he's been writing for many, many, many years, and he knows what it takes for him to get his books published. stacy, you are a publisher, so you're hearing from the panel in terms of what needs to be done. and, of course, as a librarian, you heard what, you know, what librarians do to get books on the shelves. so i want to direct this question back to stacy first as a publisher x then i'll go around. with the numbers -- >> what about them exactly? >> what about the numbers, and you also talked about the study that you had done as well. i want to talk about, you know, about what's being studied and who's putting out the studies and what's going on. >> actually, we've been doing diversity gap studies for the last three or four years now that we're looking, we're looking at the ccbc numbers and putting them together and saying have we made a dent, have we moved the needle. but we're also looking at the greater culture. we're looking at publishing itself. we actually have tried to extend the publishers weekly survey.

we did our own diversity gap survey where we had an independent researcher crunch the numbers that were given to us by more than 30 publishers looking at their whole company rather than just whoever happens to subscribe to publishers weekly. roughly the similar results, but we wanted to have some real baseline numbers so that we could get how that changes over the course of the next two years. so we're looking at the greater culture because we want to recognize that it's not children's books only where this issue is happening. discover about, though, i think is one of the biggest issues. if you have people coming into the library going where are books about people of color, you know, or people who don't know, you know, where to look for social media is actually a really great place to learn

where the books are. because there are librarians, there are writers, there are editors and all sorts of different people who are online and sharing their favorite books. they're reviewing some really -- some really great reviewers are rich in color and diversity nya among others that are looking at not just the quantity, but the quality and recommending, you know, hey, you should read this book. and maybe this one's not so great, that kind of a thing. but discoverability, i think, is our biggest hurdle even as the numbers grow so people know these books exist. >> i just wanted to add to your statement about the study. this study is often quoted, and there's always a shock element, oh, my god, they have 3500 books, and 60, 80 were only published by african-americans. you don't read the fine print. and there never will be enough to suit my taste of

african-american books. the study is based on if you sent the book -- >> that's what i said in the beginning. >> they don't include self-published titles, which there are thousands of very good self-published titles by small, independent presses. so you have to look at it from that perspective. no, there are not enough african-americans. there are numerous, i've met a couple of people here today who have wonderful books. so we need to look at that and not focus so much on these studies and focus in again and again. you mentioned those web sites. the african-american children's book project has been around for 25 years. we have been an advocate, banging the drum. we're in the industry. i'm working the media, and i'm constantly telling people you've got to cover. we've been around for 25 years, and we've never had an npr interview. we've been on television, and we've had a number of print interviews, but we have to begin to just push the envelope a

little bit more to get the books and the information out there. javaka's been around forever, and i'm sure he can count how many times he's been interviewed about his body of work. our gregory christie wrote 50 books, 50 books, and he's been living in decatur, georgia, and he's never had an interview about this wonderful literary center that he has there.

i've been seeing -- because of the great are -- people have been working on this forever but this greater push that we have had recently, i think has been moving beyond just the circle of people who have known it for so long. there's some ah-ha moments happening in circles that might not have happened before. >> it's up to you people to push the envelope. >> i mean, i think a lot of what's going on in the news today is definitely pushing people to explore more and to look at things in alternative ways. i also want to say, like, this is a systemic problem in america. it's not just the book

companies. it's a lot of different facets of society. you have the schools. they're not teaching the children to become readers, and if the parents are not teaching the children to become readers at home, then you can't expect to have readers when they grow up. it could happen, but it's just not going to happen in the same way with the same volume. so, you have to, as parents, purchase books for your children, your children have to see you reading. you have to check in at your schools, see what they're library looks like, what is happening -- >> do they have a library? >> right. what is happening in terms of curriculum. they have common core books. there's books being suggested in the common core standards that

have multicultural conversations through them. definitely the book stores. and then another thing that hasn't really been suggested is that we have, like, 80% white -- and i'm pretty sure that probably white women editors. your children are going to school, they're looking for what to do when they get out of school. they could be an editor. they could be a book designer. you know, like, we have to become a part of the industry so that our voices get heard. and the companies that are really good and really supportive, and then, like, i've had personal experiences

where -- and he has books out that have been out almost as long as i've been born, and when you ask the book companies, an anniversary is coming up, would you like to support, they say, no. so, we have to be in the industry. we can't just take it and complain. we have to make the investment. >> thank you. you have -- >> very quickly. we need diverse books as an organization has been doing a lot of great things to try to get more people of color into the industry. they have an internship grant. the last knew it was roughly 2,000 or $2,500, which for a summertime internship can really help defray the costs of living in new york city, because it's really expensive here and that's a big barrier to a lot of people. so there are ways that if you

think there are barriers that financially that might be in the way of joining the industry, that might be one way for someone to make it happen. >> so, i'd like to thank our panel. we'll now open for questions and answers. there's a microphone going around. so if you have questions, comments. [inaudible] >> after writing many novels, it occurred to me -- [inaudible question] >> they can't hear you. >> we can't hear anything. >> it's on. okay. >> still not on. >> now they can hear you. >> i'm saying that -- [inaudible question] -- that the conversation in the

industry -- if people are -- the question is, i think become. [inaudible question] also the white reader. there more white people in this country. so the fact is, if you are a black writer, writing a book, you need -- white rathers to buy your book. the problem is publishers don't think a book bay black writer can be marketed to a white audience. so, she is correct when she says, you have to look at the consumer. the consumer has to become an

activist. >> has a followup -- an answer for your statement. >> i was just thinking, as she was speaking, that you think about pop culture. -- the way we dress, our hairstyles, all of the stuff is appropriated by the majority whites. yet when it comes to our literature, seems like -- the book of the month, there's -- [inaudible] >> what do you think that is. >> it doesn't make sense. >> whoa do you think hat is happening? >> for me personally it could just be -- again, it's like a systemic -- [inaudible question] >> a book by a black writer, who is writing about topics i don't want to hear that because it

makes me uncomfortable, i'm not going read it. books make you look and see all that has been -- doing something about -- i feel it, too, for all the reasons. we are the same. books are extremely powerful, and so to me that is why. >> also the marketing of it, too. like you said in your opening words, the book store is putting african-american interests in separate sections. they're not marketing it to everyone. and from the starting whistle you're cutting off a large section of the audience, which is why it all comes together. >> it's interesting that you say that because there are -- there's two sides to that story. because in -- up until the harlem renaissance period in the '90s. african-american authors were included in the broader picture of a book store. then african-american authors

started requesting their separate section because they wanted their consumers to be able to walk in the store and find the landscape of what was available. and there's still people on both sides of the fence. i say, play it all. get yourself an african-american section and then include it in the broader part of the library -- of the book store, because it's nothing wrong when i'm looking for an african-american children's book for my granddaughter, that i walk over to the african-american section because i don't have time. want to make it happen. so we have to look at it from both sides. >> the rule of three. william mcduffy -- for those who don't know, the comic book artist and writer -- also a writer. >> writer. >> and he sadly passed away tooaway but he basically said he could have one or who african-american characters but when you nut three, suddenly it

became a black book, and i think that's a whiteness problem. i think that white people need to look at it and say, what is holding me back from reading about somebody who is different from me. grew up in a small town. white people everywhere, and i was basically told growing up that white is the best and we need to get past that. look at our kids, in the public schools we're already majority minority in this country. every kid in this nation is going to have somebody who is a friend who is different from them in some way, whether we're talking about cultural differences, racial differences, and i think that we all need to be looking beyond just ourselves, especially when you're in the majority as a white person, and be reading and consuming media beyond yourself. >> do we have another question? you can't hear? >> no. >> oh, no. wow.

you didn't hear? hold your mic up. >> can you hear me? >> hold your mic up. >> i'm so sorry. can you hear me now? >> her question was, why don't -- what about white readers? why don't white readers read black books versus the -- the onus is always put on black readers. and economics play a part, too. if you have a limited amount of funds, you're going to read usually people read what everybody necessary the office is reading, and that happens with african-american book buyers, too. it's like a cycle. african-american writers, readers, started reading african-american friendly fiction. the more you read, the more you want to read. subsequently, what everybody else is reading -- they started reading the thrillers, the this, the that. just like their colleagues at work, and sometimes it's a question of economics.

what i'm saying to people today, here, and especially in the times we're living, get a book. take a book home. a book preserves a legacy, and you need to start putting books back into the home. i'm really grateful that all these librarians are here and the wonderful work they do. but when i grew up, everybody had a home library. it's time to get back to that. time to start buying books. we need diverse books and start doing some diversity and open up your pocketbook instead of buying all the video games, buy some books. all the things happening in the world, tune out your -- your kids need to be sitting home reading a book instead of watching all the things happening on tv. you need to explain them to your children through the written word. >> we have comments or questions? right here.

>> i just am interested in how we get reading back -- >> the microphone. >> -- [inaudible question] >> hold the mic up to your mouth. [inaudible question] >> the mic up to your mouth. [inaudible question]

>> all right. can you comment? i want the odd mence to understand her statement. >> i heard part of the question was how to get reading back into the home and that's a good question. would also suggest to the -- to our audience here, also pay attention what is going on with your local government. the reason i say this niksch nen new york state, libraries are not -- when children are learning how to read and -- help them -- [inaudible] -- many are getting rid of the libraries. a lot of -- they got rid of all of their elementary libraries last year. the librarians for the middle

school and high school, it's state mandated. there's a lot of books -- laws that make no sense to me. electing lawmakers that are accountable to us and that seems to me -- besides -- when i was growing up, my parents were lower middle class people. me mother worked two jobs, my father -- i didn't really have -- we didn't have extra unfunds to bring books into the home. where i got my books from was from the school library. at one point the public libraries -- but those were the biggest influences. on the flip side for me, the book i remember "the little house on the prayer," "ramona." you see the names. woodlow -- no black people. so, until i got older, that's

when i realized, i -- in high school i was exposed to "jubilee" or even "to kill a "to kill a mockingbird."." so, to get kids reading again, we have to really start with the fundamentals and -- hold the librarians to task. they made up for what was lacking at home. >> just to piggyback on that, there's an organization putting books in barber shops. let's find alternative ways to bring books to the community and also just think, it's not about just getting your child to read. it's about getting the community of children to read. >> how many people belong to a church or a social civic organization in this room?

you have many opportunities within that network to create book opportunities, the way to purchase books, have fundraisers to buy books, create an environment in your home. i know -- we had a bookmobile. we didn't even have a building in the community. grew up in a rural community, and we did go out and get two books, but my father, who worked in a factory -- i'm one of eight. my father managed to have two daily newspapers, national geographic, "life. "every month he would allow to us buy one book. it was paperback but he put aside those kinds of funds. we have to begin to make those kind of sacrifices because we do find ways to buy other things in our community. >> that is true. questions. >> one thing -- can you hear me?

one thing to add on to that is that you mentioned technology. technology can be used toward encouraging reading as well, there's really great apps like the overdrive app you can put your library card into and it you can check out ebooks and audio books, especially for kids who may not read as well about maybe they're goodded a listening, audio books are great for that. as an editor, when i get home from work i don't feel like reading becomes that have been published so i actually have e have red more books via audio books than i have in so many years. so, this is a tool you can use. >> do you have a question? >> i'm holding it -- can you hear me? [inaudible] >> good afternoon. >> i'm a high school english

teacher. i survey my students at the beginning of the year, and this is about reading, because i'm an avid reader. i grew up in a home with reading, and i realize that reading is a luxury. part of the conundrum here is the majority of my students do not or did not even have magazines. monthly magazines, coming to their home. and then i would bring in magazines for the students to read. they were like really fascinated and engrossed. so, therefore, i had a two-fer. an opportunity to introduce them to a portable reading mechanism, then at the same time, when it came to reading novels, the students had stamina. so, when we talk about reading, the picturebooks are nice but they have to start early and

they have to start continue obviously, but at the same time i -- this is philadelphia so i'm very familiar with the children's book fair, and yet there are 4,000 people standing in line and 20 degrees to get in to buy books for their children, and that's awesome. but what we need to understand is that our children need continuity, they need consistency and they need to be validated with african-american literature. i get the -- we also have a canon, and my friend here, we argue all the time because i like the black and -- i get that. but i also believe that we need to validate the person, we need to validate my girls, tony --

>> octavia butler. >> so my question is, how do the -- the audience is here to help. what can we do to make it better? the common core -- >> it's not common. >> the common core -- >> it's not common. >> -- african-american. >> before you -- before the panel answers the question issue just want to say we only have five minutes. so, panel, take it. in. >> the girl is one of my volunteers at the book fair. i'm on a mission to get the state of pennsylvania to require that reading, from the minute they enter a daycare center, there's two months, six months, it is required, required by the state, that they have real books.

not throwaway books -- in that daycare center. don't care if it's six kids, four kids and that begins early. we wait until they get to preschool or first grade to introduce books to them, and then we wonder why our kids are behind? you got to start early. you got to start hard. >> here in new york, there's a program where they have books and they have them with pediatricians, and so it's a program where the pediatricians actually introduce books to parents. so if your local high school doesn't have thaprogram, look for it. but with the amount of time we have left, i'm sorry we can't take audience questions because i have five minutes left -- okay, quickly. [inaudible question]

[inaudible question] >> with that said, what can we do today? i just want to. >> back to my panel and start with -- all right, thank you. what can we do today, and then -- i want to end with -- because he is an author, so start with the publisher, then to my librarian, my advocate, and then end with the author. >> read aloud. and not just your very little children.

kids who are in high school love being read to, and it can really make a difference in just getting them started on a book. maye maybe they have to get over the hump of opening up the book and read that first chapter. >> thank you. >> read -- as a public librarian, bring us to task. not just the selection of the programs but discussion, they're not demanding, or for young people, and bring to us task. >> something you can do today, right now, is children's authors that are selling the books here at the harlem book fair, start here. when you go out the door, buy somebody's book. that's how you support the industry and there's a young lady called morgan taylor. she didn't see princesses that looked like her, so her mother published a book, and i hope today when we walk out of here

we begin to understand it is our responsibility to make sure we have books reflect our images and enrich our children's lives. >> i think that today kids are not like they used to be 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago. it's an interactive world, and they need to receive information in a different way. so, you need to be experimental. you need to make reading fun. you need to find alternative ways in order to get books into children's hands and books into children's hearts. when i go to school, i do a lot of theatrical stuff with the kids and immerse them in the story, let them become the, whichs in the story. that way they're not just sitting, reading, saying, this is boring.

i'm engaging them in a way that the world is engaging them. so, find a way that the children in your environment need to engage with books, and then help them. help them get there. >> all right. well, i want to thank our panel. sorry we ran out of time for q & a. i was given the direction from the stage manager. i'm sorry i cannot answer your question. when the panel steps down, if you have a question i'm sure they'll be more than happy to answer any questions or comments. thank you. [applause] [inaudible question] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> next up from the harlem book fair, fallen on "their eyes war watching god" author zora neal hurston. >> welcome once again to the next panel discussion. may we have you listening, please. thank you so much. this title, "i love myself when i am laughing: a century and more of zora neale hurston." i have the pleasure of introducing the moderator for today's