creative ideas. but you are right. >> host: very few people in the united states start -- know more than you. thank you for joining us today. >> guest: thank you so much. >> host: i really enjoyed the conversation. >> c-span, created by america's cable companies and brought to you as a public service by your cable or satellite provider. sunday, august 7th, booktv is live with best selling author and journalist jeffrey tuben. he is a senior analyst for cnn and a staff write for the new yorker magazine where his

coverage for the oj simpson trial became the idea of his books. his other books are benign that look at the supreme court. and too close to call. american errors is his recent book and is an account of patty hurst's trial. he appeared to discuss his book the oath: >> i don't think the importance of the obamacare case is all that great. i don't think they are going to suddenly start invalidating laws on commerce clause grounds. i don't think the taxing power is all that important. i guess having fallode this stuff for a long time now i am

getting pretty darn cynical about precedent. they follow it when they want to and don't follow it when they don't want it and i think what is really important about the obamacare case is that obamacare has been upheld and 35 million people are getting insurance. ... if you get a chance to go back

to st. louis public library appeared to me it was a real adventure. i think probably why did my appetite. so what kind of books did you gravitate towards? ayes kids books. i got into the back and do little series, which back in my youth, nobody was reading. nobody ever heard of it. it wasn't until after the movie came out. most people discovered a way less than what it was about a new is a greater set of books. for some reason i got a kick out of the fact that we're talking animals. and of course the hearty dies -- hardy boys. that was part of who you were. my mom was a democrat, eighth-grade education but she taught herself everything under the sun. , shorthand, reading, art, all of this.

that probably inspired me. >> host: wordage immigrated how did you end up in it was? >> guest: she was born in lithuania, brought here at the age of two. lithuania population came from germany to baltimore. she didn't land on ellis island in new york or the baltimore and ohio railroad had two destinations. chicago and st. louis. if she went to chicago, she would've been part of the largest immigration up with the winning to america and a huge lithuania population. she took the southern route. her mom did it to meet up with my grandfather and that was kind of a part of st. louis. stockyards come the steel mills, railroads come at things in the risk of working. she came in the eighth grade, became a switchboard operator and more true whole life. she really was my original teacher. >> host: what books you gravitate towards today?

>> guest: mainly nonfiction. i don't force myself. i disciplined myself every third or fourth book to read something fiction. i think it is good for me. naturally you think a politician is reading history and biography, which i love, but i've got to get into it. a few years ago i was talking to someone and they said they have courses online or you can take. it doesn't charge anything. you can take a college course. so i decided i would take a college course. what do you think i took? >> host: writing. >> guest: that would've been my second choice. my first choice is poetry. i thought i've never had a poetry course. i took modern contemporary poetry and there is a professor at the university of pennsylvania who taught the sideline. what is he good. really good. i got to monitor his classes and

they would then not testing much. it was a great experience. i could get the poetry online and i learned all of these emily dickinson and walt whitman, all through these different poets. i made the mistake of telling one of the people at the editorial board of the daily herald outside the city of chicago that i did this. they put it in the paper appeared the next thing i'm on all things considered being interviewed about taking a poetry course. i could talk a few minutes about that. she -- he was live on the air. he has a quiz for you today. so we asked a few things about poetry and thank goodness i got it right. i use my rating to expand into fiction work and authors, poetry, push myself a little bit.

>> host: last year during our summer reading quays here on booktv, we asked a lot of senators and a lot of them said we cannot see. with a senator sharing that? >> guest: i do know about the others. for me i heard about it and i was captivated. it was such a fascinating premise that there was a blind girl who was surviving on mainly in france and what happened to her. i recommended it to others. susan collins and i often trade books and i can't remember if i recommended it to her or her to me, but i thought it was really well done. >> host: with another book he represented to senator collins? ayes a novel i read i thought was very animated television series the -- a lot of it. the life of pi. i remember recommending that along the way.

we kind of had this exchange back and forth. >> host: senator durbin, what's on your current list? ayes a number of things. in the heart of the csa story by nathaniel philbrick. it's a story about the ethics whaling ship out of nantucket that was sunk by a whale in the pacific and many members of the crew survived, inspired herman melville to write the story behind the story. i liked that so much. then i saw philbrick came out with the second book called by your ambition, a revolutionary war book. i bought it. i've got it sitting there, my next one up in terms of what i'm reading. those i felt were particularly good, i'm a huge fan of timothy egan, a writer for "the new york times" and a heck of an author. he wrote the immortal irishman, a great story about an irishman who was banished to live on an

island in the south pacific, escaped to the united states, became a big prominent leader of union troops, the irish battalion during the civil war and then run off to montana where he died and i won't give them away anymore, but it is the premise of the book. told the story leading up to that. egan is such a great out there. when i read about the dust bowl, i had these images of what the dust bowl was that led to the migration in the 30s of folks from oklahoma to california. grapes of wrath and so forth. you can write a book about the worst hard times about the dust bowl. my goodness, it was an incredible scene to think the cities were just engulfed in dirt and dust that was blowing through their in accumulating and became a challenge in the cities are you going to say or be a quitter in lane.

i will never leave. egan is a great writer. the immortal irishman is a book i wrote. -- read about. >> host: do you read books by her colleagues? yes or yes, amy called the charts book i read, harry reid books and claire mccaskill's books -- book i should say. i try to read those along the way. >> host: what about a dick durbin both? >> guest: you know, i don't know if there will ever be won. i've had 60 chapters in a minute tour of my desk, but i don't know if it's a book. it stories i've accumulated and written up over my time in congress. i'm not sure there's a book in there. there's a lot of writing, and that someday may entice another to look it over. >> host: what is one chapter you can tell us about? >> guest: it's a continuing project. i got this curiosity in my mind

when i was with obama on the campaign trail. i said you carry anything in your pocket every day? oh yeah, he showed me the pendant he had which was like a tiny buddha. i believe that's what it was. i take it with me everywhere. he said when they start asking all these people i know what you carry in your pocket during the course of the campaign. i started collecting it. one of the chapters is the story of each senator and what they like to carry in their pockets. is that worthy of a book? i don't know, but it caught my attention. >> host: is there a bio at one of those chapters? ayes is all over the place at a politician can't read a book about your life without reflecting on what right you here. an immigrant mother, my father who died when i was in high school from lung cancer, smoking two packs of camels today have experiences with paul douglas, introduced me to paul simon who

hired me out of law school to work in his lieutenant governor's office. how i got into this battle to take smoke enough airplanes. and what it was like passing the bill in the house. there's a lot of personal reflection on this. there may be a book in there somewhere. >> host: any poetry? ayes not yet. i'm not that good at it. i guess i'm humble enough to say i do a little bit, but i don't profess any great expertise. the interesting thing you have to take in the courses in "the new yorker" it isn't just the stories in the cartoons. i stop and read the poetry or at least try to read the poetry appeared the poetry. before he the poetry appeared before it could be a main course, i didn't even try. >> host: senator durbin, your time is produced here says democratically. you build and reading time? >> guest: i have a lot of airplane time. i commute every week.

i've done that over 30 years from illinois to washington. so there is time there. i found the book to be a great way to pass the time. catch up on magazine clippings and so forth and get into a boat. if i really get into it, i will stick with it to the end. i'm not in the kindle. i tried it. it just wasn't my style. i like the tangible feel of the paper book. i also find if i carried around in a briefcase, i will finish it because i think how long are you going to carry this. you stick with it and read it. it's a great way to sit next to a passenger you don't want to talk to them it does happen and politicians. the head of the nra from colorado, thank you. i've got a book to read. it's a legitimate kind the way to don't bother me. post i went last time you were in the library? >> guest: is one of the

casualties of that poor town which is now struggling to survive, but it really meant a lot to me. it was interesting. it took a transition of 80 people at the peak but i remember a moment through racial crisis where there were african american getting improved incomes, wanted to move into new neighborhoods. white flight. my family was a casualty. now it is a city that is probably 95% plus african-american. goodness we got a great new mayor. she really is impressive that i've got my fingers crossed she will turn the city in the right direction. population 25,000 today. >> host: industry. >> guest: nothing except the casino riverboat. nothing. it is all gone and that is part of the problem. >> host: what about popular book senator durbin, thinking of

the harry potter books, some of the sweep the country. >> guest: usually not. there was that whole thing the girl with the dragon in all the rest. i guess i read those. i thought they were pretty good. i don't get caught up into that too much. i do get fixed on certain authors. i think a fellow named sebastian barry, who is an irish to any street in a series of books about a family. i get the biggest kick out of reading his books. they are good stories to start with an attack a lot about ireland and all that it went through in the 20th century. just the irish turn of the phrase i get the biggest kick out of reading that. there's a woman named folder. she's really a special case. fuller wrote several memoirs about growing up in south africa , part of africa, zimbabwe and that region.

the two that i thought were really excellent. one was titled go to the dogs tonight and the second one was cocktails under the tree of forgetfulness or something of that nature. she came from the most dysfunctional family you can imagine. her father was just kind of a handyman and they drink a little too much and that came through in the stories he achieved a gifted writer who lives in jackson hole now. >> host: are there books that help you? >> guest: sometimes i gravitate towards those that i think will make a difference. there is another one, a new biography of brandeis. i don't know enough about him. this will be a good deal press though, so i thought that one. so that does help me.

there is another one on fixing medicare that i just ordered. i'm trying to get myself into the frame of mind of dealing with entitlement programs and i thought maybe reflection by someone who sounds like they are thoughtful with a helpful. >> host: do you ever read books you disagree with? >> guest: i don't usually get through them. i did a reinstall. i find i can't finish a book, even if i try second or third time, maybe was not meant to be. all of these books are not meant to take to the finish line and that is okay, too. i don't mind trying and passing it along. i learn something even if i stop the 100 or 150 pages. >> host: you mention you ordered about. when you get most of your books? >> guest: amazon. very convenient. my favorite story an amazon was waking up at 5:00 a.m. on sunday morning and think and i got to order some books.

a citywide same-day delivery on a sunday in chicago. i would like to find out how that works. they were delivered by 2:30 in the afternoon. it's pretty convenient. having said that, i go out of my way to overpay for both from neighborhood stores. i worked my way through college and it works store at dupont circle called books and records. i went to georgetown. it was one of the second or third best jobs i ever had. i memorized the inventory. it was thereby publisher. i got a big kick out of bed and i think that got me started on this craziness on books. i have more books than i should. but i thought about amazon and how good they are, but i've also thought i'd don't want to loose all these neighborhood bookstores. so in broadway around the corner from my condo in chicago is the unabridged bookstore and make a point of going in there to buy christmas gifts. i spend too much money. i could've save 20%% for sure on

amazon, but i've got to keep these guys in business. they've got such a good amateur. i have a soft. >> host: when you walk in there, june they know who you are? >> guest: yeah, they do. it's a curious thing. if you told me burbank, we've got 30 minutes which elected to the bookstore, great. we've got an hour, great. our behalf, great. it is a good bookstore, just give me the time. i will amuse myself for however long you want me to stay in their does a really good bookstore. >> host: any books you recommend to your colleagues or staff? >> guest: yes, be empowered to summer moon, the story of the comanche indians. i thought to myself i knew nothing about native americans. all i knew i took out of westerns, movies. it's all stereotypical. as i read the empire of some

intermittent. senator gordon comes walking in. i said happy with entire summer moon. never heard of it. i'll give it to you. i said it's all about texas and oklahoma and kansas for the comanches dominated for decades. he loves it. he gives it as a gift for next christmas to every republican senator. that's when i recommended that turned out to be popular. >> host: is that the olympic events are recommended to counterparts on the republican side. >> guest: there is a book called the heart of everything that is and it is a story of the sioux nation, which takes you three different part of the united states. i recommended back to heidi heitkamp and amy cole which are because a lot of it has to do with dakotas and minnesota. >> host: what about illinois? if you want to learn about illinois or illinois politics, what would you recommend? >> guest: there is a lot of fun. i just recommended to the staffers here city of the century.

this is a 19th century history of the city of chicago and it just tells it from its days of settlement on through the columbian exposition. people have read the weight city by erik larson comic burglars since the it takes place the same area, 1893. they missed the 400th anniversary. they built this huge white city. city of the century as such an eye-opener for in terms of a city. it was a small town that kind of grew just geometrically at the end of the 19th century with railroads in a central location and opening up the west. i would start there. that's a good book to read. i've read most of the books paul simon wrote. he was prolific. when he ran for president, they said he has written more books than ronald reagan has read.

i don't know if george will said that, but somebody did on the course of the campaign. he did not have a college degree, but he was a prolific writer, author, journalist. her books are a very good reflection. >> host: what about the u.s. senate? any book you recommend? >> guest: mastered the senate, his book about lbj in the history of this body. i don't have read anything that matches. >> host: this is lbj sold hideaway office. just goes beyond so many offices in the capital. i have this office for the whip's operation a little ways from here. if this was part of this legacy, it easily could have been. he would walk through it i peered paul douglas, the u.s. senator that i worked for as a kid. phd in economics. cerebral liberal progressive, the kind of politician that lbj

hated. douglas is chairman of the joint economic committee. lbj gave it to him because he couldn't cause any trouble. he's working late one night in one of the site offices over here. the door opens about enough of it. and steppes lbj. he doesn't say a word or closes the and leaves. the next day douglas gives notice you've been a big day. so i now have it today. in his time, he laid claim to a lot of real estate at the capitol. >> host: as the u.s. senator, do you have any involvement with libraries in illinois where the u.s. libraries around the country? >> guest: i do. a lot of friends involved in libraries and it's fun working with them. the woman nominated to be the next librarian of congress, carly. african-american librarian, her family originally from illinois.

it was downstate illinois. the wisdom of large african-american population, but they were born and going to come illinois. the reason for it was probably the railroads. the african-americans gravitated towards the railroads and other places. father turned out to be a pretty prominent musician. he traveled around. she was born in florida. he went to new york, made it to chicago. if you go to malcolm x college in chicago, the auditory and is named after her dad is so carla has a great joy. she's run into opposition but hope she and the ear and the next library. they say one thing about writing as i can. when it comes to writing, i think it is like most other skills. they say you need to do it 10,000 times. if you read stephen king, he is a book called arm writing which i recommend because the front end of the book is not a

biography which is hilarious. it's almost as funny as bill place, another writer i've read all the time. the life and times of us growing up in des moines, iowa. stephen king tells the story of growing up in his interest in science fiction and all the crazy things nobody else like to read. he'd love to read eventually worked up the courage to write. he had this quirky way of looking at things, so he writes a book called kerry and this book in hard and doesn't do very well. he's married, living in a small apartment. they say we've decided to put kerry into paperback and you are going to get a $10,000 advance. he drops the phone on the floor. he couldn't live it. that was the launch of his publishing career. the second half of the book is a primer on how to be a writer and how to get it done. the key is pretty obvious. write every day. discipline yourself to write every day.

and then there's some insights on how to write every day. john irving has a book about how he got his inspiration to be a writer of my imaginary girlfriend. two passions in life, rustling, legitimate wrestling. not the entertainment kind. in high school and college. and writing. he listed the 10 books that inspired him to be a writer. i think i got through half of them. he got me into graham greene. it was irving the pit at a few of them and got me started was quite a few books. so if you are interested in writing, there aren't a lot of great writers that share their secrets. >> host: do you practice? >> guest: sound. i write columns as their press secretary denies. some he approves of them he doesn't. i read these chapters that i put in a chore i was telling you about that they never see the light of day.

>> host: stephen king wrote at the library of congress the last couple years on his book on writing. did you get a chance to see him? >> guest: i would've definitely gone, but a mistake. the series they do at the library of congress when they congress when they bring in now there there is initially about history, stephen ambrose and others would come in. is that rubinstein i believe? part of the new bed. it to go listen to david interviewing the author in a free copy of the book. it's a pretty good night. there is one coming up tonight. >> host: and there's no cameras allowed. we've tried to get in there. just count it as a book about churchill and franklin roosevelt, which i've read a couple i want to see what that's all about.

>> host: senator dick durbin at the democratic within the u.s. senate and we appreciate your being on booktv. things. -- thanks.

>> i was told by several people you should start showing up in d.c. mid-june. this is a big decision of a holdout for most of the end of the term. start showing up in june just to be there. i was in d.c. for every decision day. at that point without monday, june 29th because they had scheduled only decision based on mondays. monday, june 29th will likely wonder what happened. the week of the 22nd i was there on monday and that was the day they announced we will release decisions on thursday and then i also added friday and that was when we all started to say way, friday june 20. that is a somewhat important day for the movement. so we all started to think it

will be on friday. that morning i got to the supreme court, took my place in line. i was in the public line with 50 or 60 other people there in the courtroom and the atmosphere that morning was vastly different than every other morning. it was lighter. it was looser. it was happier. i think because most of us in that line by june 26, we think this is a sign. people seemed happier and more about b. the other amazing thing, every time i've been in court, standing in the public line when they hand out tickets for the public spectators, every time we had that in mind for oral argument, those are bright orange. that morning they handed out the tickets. the police officer handed them out. we are all still chatting. i looked down and i notice somebody no one else had remarked on.

i held up the tickets did you notice something different? do they have been orange. like every other single time. that morning they were lavender. may be assigned. >> okay, so were you inside? >> i was in it. after getting the tickets, they lessen the courthouse. because sometimes stand in line for more. and then we entered the corporate men were seated. the proceedings started in the chief justice said justice kennedy will be the first decision. they read the case number. i don't have finally memorized it the day before. when the case number came out, i jumped in my seat. i know i squeaked. i made some kind of noise. i was sitting between friends and i grabbed her hand and i'm happy to report they have all of

their fingers. justice kennedy started to read his decision. my first reaction was we won. well, i think we did. he read some more. i thought we won. i'm not really positive yet. and then it sunk in that we did actually win and i just burst into tears. all around the courtroom you could hear in the people crying and there was this an electric feeling of joy and happiness and for me there was this wonderful moment of perhaps for the first time in my adult life of being honest with myself about who i am and honest with others, in that part of my life, the first time i felt truly like an american. to hear a supreme court justice they supreme court justice say, you know what, john and jim, joe