on economic issues so i hope you will look at this. and lisa cook, and put together the report, i thank her for that and a woman officer here, paying close attention to women's issues in the economy and i'm glad you are too because i have seen it throughout your agenda. we are thrilled to have you here today. thank you for shining a light on the important issues we all care about, your fight is our fight and look forward to continuing to struggle together. [applause]

>> i'm an associate professor, welcome to our afternoon session on equality, three different topics, i would also like to add that we have two panelists who are last-minute replacements. i want to thank them, derek agreed to step in at the last moment, derek agreed on sunday. our first paper is on an associate professor in the department of economics at the university of toledo who will be talking about an inquiry into the militarization of local law enforcement. >> thank you. i think the afl-cio for hosting us as we present our work.

this work looking at militarization, something we have got into the last few years, the specific project is a large project, what do we mean by militarization, what is it? and in the agenda what i am looking to do is figure out where the placement is and make some of these efforts at police outcomes that we have seen so a lot of times in economics we talk about you have a topic, what police militarization is pretty clear answer to that question, this is a picture from ferguson two years ago. ..

and so specifically department of justice has a lot of grant programs that the agencies can have for funding to help militarize their police in the face of terrorism concerns they also had programs for that. they actually had two programs that help fund and provide items to these agencies and in the study and get a focus on the second one to 1033 program. i will talk i'll talk more about that in detail. it is a program from the department of justice where

they offloaded military surplus too military agencies. it was first founded in 1989 and includes all kinds of military items. what happens is that the military gets these items and then if they had access surplus they offloaded to these local agencies through the 1033 program. the agencies they actually go to the appointed officer and then they would say we would want a certain amount of guns or night vision scopes or bulletproof vests and then they just go through a process and then they have to head justification for that. and then they will get those items. now this graph is kind of hard to see but it's from 1990 to 2015 the acquisition of surplus items and so what you notice is the first big spike is in 2006 from 2006 it goes

down a little bit of insert to go back up again. looking at this graph it's been around since 1989 it was reauthorized in 1987 but we see no acquisitions up until 2006. why did we see the sudden increase. and then what this shows is the geographic distribution of these items. what a figure -- what it shows is the median number of items that were acquired and if you look at this graph it represents more acquisitions in the lighter ones is less acquisition and there's not really any sort of geographic distribution or pattern that you can look at. this is something that's more of a national phenomenon. this picture here this is a

mind resistant ambush vehicle it was designed in 2001 to protect soldiers in iraq and afghanistan going over ied's. what you notice in the picture it says san diego unified school. what that is saying this is not a lot for some agency. it asked for that basically. you have to wonder what is a justification for school district to have this? what they argued that you want to be able to in situations like there's violence or something like that they want to be able to escort the kids out. they weren't the only school district in the country to acquire these. after a lot of backlash in uproar about these a lot of them return them back to the government.

one of the first papers i did on this was looking specifically at these protected vehicles and trying to see what was driving the acquisition of these specific vehicles. there is no real justification for any u.s. agency to want these vehicles. they should only be for military purposes. its any sort of demographic what i did was i looked at this county in a study that they did in 2014 and one of the things i found was the 10% increase increases the probability of the acquisition by 3.2 percent. so as long as things were there the 10% increase in the population lowers the pop --

lowers the probability. this told me it's not about race per se but integration and segregation. if you have neighborhoods that have integrated you will not see this kind of thing. people want to stay away from each other. you will see more of these things happening. so here with the acquisition it was only a cross-section. i wanted to see what is driving the southern increase. could it be increased terrorism concerns and some issues there. can it be increase in crime may be a drug related. and one of the other things i want to look at was the political concept.

you look at the political climate in the state. that's what's driving and what the politicians are asking for. in terms of crime in mass incarceration and things like that they play a big role in that and so what they had found is that there was agenda framing being tough on crime. if you think back to the discussion about this. there was a lot of pushing for that because of this agenda framing. in terms of this. we find that they play a strong role in that. and then there is another kind of public choice argument. this is what argues when we

have these in afghanistan or iraq the run-up to these wars has the effect back to domestic surveillance. the stuff that we used for the war in iraq that kind of comes back and happens here in the u.s. in the paper i'm going to be testing both of these theories. the defendant variable i looked at the capital items so if you think about that first picture to normalize that we take the number of items from the political science and it looks at the conservative versus liberal and it goes from zero to 100. some controls i look at appellation density.

what that looks at is the diversity in the region. and i put in a time trend. over the last couple of years there has been a drawdown in the military and so i'm thinking because there is a drawdown there's can be an increase of supply of these items. one of the issues is going to be there. we look at this date. in terms of the acquisition of items or the democratic impact we might want to look at a lower analysis. i do this for both the state in the county. and so the main variable at

what i find is that citizen ideology has a negative impact on the acquisition of items. as it becomes more liberal you will see a lower amount of items acquired. it shows that it does have an impact over the acquisition of the surplus items. that is positive also. the decrease there's a supply issue here. because of the drawdown in afghanistan and iraq. it's also leading an increased acquisition. it is positively correlated. crime is also positive with acquisition there might be an increase in crime that may be driving this. and the evidence of a boomerang effect. it's having that low back domestically.

we find that they have split it the crime this is something that we see constantly even terrorist events that are not here domestically get a lot of media attention. one of the things i think about is what happened in belgium or tara -- paris there was a lot of media in concern especially the spin election year. and then you look at what happened in charleston that came and went quickly. i think it was the one year ago. it was the anniversary. that plays into citizens fear about we need to protect ourselves there okay with having militarized police. the other thing is use of

military type equipment. i kind of want to take a little break here the use of this equipment and mine always be a bad thing. i think about that first picture. something that struck me was the orlando massacre. we think about how long that lasted and all of the people that died but also the police when they used the tactics. it's one thing i want to look at is it all bad. i also think about the dallas situation with the protest protests we have this neighbor. it was taken out by a bomb robot. now in that case it might be a good thing. it's one of the things we have to think about looking out all

of the ways it's being used. and then if we as a society are okay with police it needs to be some sort of guideline that these agencies need to have in order to be able to implement them. this is led to an erosion of confidence in and divisions within the populace. we have a discussion yesterday about public opinion and what people think about and that erosion of confidence. future work one of the things i want to look at i want to take a sabbatical next year to go into more detail i just want to look at the analysis of the most popular items about 90 to 95% of the items acquired or weapons. i want to look at what sort of impact does that head. i also want to look at the link between those things.

it's something that's really come on. there is no good data because of the officer involved shootings. i want to look at data that is available to see if we can tie that together. in this project it looks specifically at the 1033 program and looking at those programs to see can i do a similar type analysis with that and can i get a good broad overview. >> think you. the business rights.

good afternoon. and again thank you for hosting us. we have a may have another association coming out of it. for the first time we have that. i qualify that as a half. we were both working on the rights issues as well. thank you so much. just that connection. the conference is very dear to my heart in terms of making that connection thank you for that. this takes you back a little bit to some of my roots. i'm sorry that randy is not here because there are things in here that he would appreciate.

i got into this project by looking at images that i was confronted with. these were some of the things that were coming across the social media feed. one was the defense bill that had appropriated it was gonna be signed over. the other one was the forced closure of about 600 communities across australia. in a closure it was distinctively for future sherry reasons there was a notion that they were going to be used for mining. there has to be a story in here. that kind of paradox.

it's not as if they have those resources are not feeling it goes a little bit beyond that. this is very preliminary work. i started out thinking it was good to be relatively simple and straightforward. i think i had stumbled into a research project that will consume more than two years of my life. i have the legal aspect of it it fits in nicely with what they were saying yesterday the remedy and constitution there's not an institutional argument made here i just wanted to start out looking at inequalities in relation to resource.

that's kind of where it's going. i was excited when i found the paper which compares them the u.s. in canada. the data was a lot on the case study. the more determination that they have the better the development. that made sense. however in looking at gaps and disparities over a 25 year time frame they said they're not really closing despite resources being thrown at the problem. it looked at their health. they found that it wasn't necessarily the most developed countries who they were doing the best.

this is a life expectancy and in here as american indians. this one i was expecting. that's what i started looking at if we look at those indicators for each of them on the left is the population on the right so you can see those gaps there. by a range of indicators. i split and included native hawaiian and other pacific islanders. it's a group that is largely ignored in the national dialogue basically they are

natives. they have a slightly different status. we are born as residents and citizens. in looking out what should be considered. is just my little comment there. what was most interesting to me a lot of these don't really discover and eat very much one of the most important things i think looking at the percentage of people with population. the fact that they have almost 15% of the general population. everybody else has 3% or 4% if you are lucky. i think that does bear out part of what i'm the connect. in looking at this since i was

wanting to act look at the relationships between the people these indicators will not do that for me. the best indicator that i came up with was going to be incarceration because your health and your well-being you can do that basically on the reservation. you can do that far away from the government without ever engaging. you may have suggested this but the best one i found was incarceration. there is a problem with the city here basically i'm working right now on a project that is demonstrating how the rates of americans are underreported for a number of reasons. one because a lot of the times

it was self-reported. two, a lot of the times race is not included in the dated collected by different departments. and the third reason is this is looking at people within the general justice system and doesn't include people from the bia justice system. routinely there's at least 75% more in the number there but that is an argument that's coming out. the measure of engagement that we can look at. again if we look at those measures of engagement killed by law enforcement is pretty decent measure apart from the

fact that we don't have guns for law enforcement in new zealand. team -- ten to one you are more likely to die if you're white person that is across men and women. these are things i was looking at. then i started looking at the mining countries. and basically as i suspected the u.s. australia canada they come in and about 72. i think there is a resource endowment argument there. it intersects with institutional arguments. for instance they passed a

bill saying that the treaty would be binding. it really change the relationship between the government. in canada but they did was they came up with a similar law basically stating that treaties in canada would be honored but they could be altered by a constitutional committee which would be formed by the government and may or may not include indigenous people. canada where it's kind of in there somewhere and the u.s. that went to the supreme court and were looking at rights into resources that actually came back and held that they were not binding on congress.

basically at the discussion of the government. australia has no treaty. we have this continuum here. not surprisingly we would go back here and expect the worst relationships are with australia and the u.s. that was half of the argument. the other thing i started looking at and this is my transition into what would be a subsidiary case study is indonesia. basically indonesia has fast mining resources. there are things that i cannot understand for instance why is this indonesia. the people are distinct in terms of linguistics and

culture why is that there. the answer is resources. here is a story you have the dates of independence. basically while they were becoming independent indonesia took control the dutch were getting ready to make independent in 1962 they had formed a transition government and then indonesia invaded. this is partially a cold war compromise because they thought may be indonesia would go fight with the russians it was also to do with the fact

that indonesia has major minimal -- mineral resources. the first mining contract was signed. abrupt for men to a free choice was taken which is part of the un agreement. when the results were announced in the un the present would only say it was conducted under indonesia. and they have to be part of indonesia. basically why. the largest gold mine in the world. that is also the site of the third largest copper mine. basically we have people who are distinct in terms of culture in linguistics because

of mining resources the other thing is the u.s. and australia send massive amounts of aid to indonesia. i think in 2012 it was approximately hundred $80 million from the u.s. and about $60 million from australia that same year. it went in military aid. that's it's going into this this is what's coming out so in the first quarter of this year 7% of gdp came from mining. of that 34 providences the one generating the largest mount you've 7% of gdp coming from a single providence you know that second ago while for

those people. there is huge things coming out of there. into risk if we look at the mining the big companies that have the first mining license they had downscaled for other reasons. but the one thing they have held was at mine. may 2015 they downscaled but it was making up approximately 45 percent of its income from mining. this is kind of huge. basically this is what is going on. since they have taken over approximately 500 people of the conflict. it has the worst levels of development and yet they have

still seen terry aid to support it. they have actually been trained, supplied and sometimes supplemented by australia. again australia and the u.s. who have these interest. the other thing i will touch on just briefly in the cases of those people and here in a state they ended up here on friday the major whip in the resistance right now was social media. there is different levels of oppression but they are creating international

community for support. it's kind of an upside of this. this is super preliminary and it's a narrative in search of quantification that's why i brought it here. i thought you could help me out with some of that. i have the legal part of it written up. again i'm starting to look more at the economic history part of it and looking at some of those things and statements and tease out profit flows there. thank you for that. i would welcome any feedback or comments. [applause]. >> derek hamilton derek is the president of the national economic association he is associate professor of economics at the milan at school.

in the department of economics. the new school for social research. derek will be talking on the political economy of race, education and labor markets in the federal job guarantee. i echo my fellow panelists and their thanks to afl-cio for hosting us in this beautiful setting in for the work that they do in general. i would also like to thank them for putting this together. this is indeed a wonderful a setting for us to come and share our ideas and get some good critical feedback and we are all united under the mission of freedom and justice i will say that might paper will deviate a little bit from the previous two although one could argue that deprivation of economic security and the dignity of a job as a form of

violence as well. i will just get right into it. much of the framing around racial disparity focuses on poor decision-making on blacks, latinos and other sub groups. this framing is often tied to a cultural poverty that emphasizes and undervalue for low acquisition of education and human capital. ultimately incorrectly framing the central problem is not deep seated structures but rather deficiencies to the other sub groups themselves it leads to a policy focus on the rehabilitation of the black family. here in lies the rationale for the policies if behavior modification is the central issue why fund government agencies and programs which at

best this allocate resources to irresponsible individuals in that worse create dependencies that further fuel irresponsible behavior. we end up with with laissez-faire or a security policies like the president my brother's keeper initiative which for one totally ignores the plight of black women altogether but attempts to lead french the private or charitable resources to incentivize the so called defective black males to be more deployable. so i'm going to lead up to the scenario for inequality and ultimately propose what i think is the better frame of solutions a federal job guarantee. the framing that i mentioned is wrong. it is more likely that meager

economic circumstance and labor market structure not poor decision-making constrain the choice itself particularly from communities of color with little options by constrain inferior choices. the wealth gap in its determinate makes this point crystal clear. while the families are better positioned to finance elite independent school college educations access capital to start a business finance expensive medical procedures. exert political influence through campaign finance purchase better counsel if confronted with the legal system. and withstand financial hardship resulting from any number of emergencies. it serves as a primary indicator of economic security. it provides the necessary

initial capital to purchase assets which in turn generates more and more wealth and can be passed down from one generation to the next. the source of inequality is structural. not behavioral. it provides some young adults with capital to purchase a wealth generated asset like a home like a debt free college education that will appreciate over their lifetime. in the u.s. context data from the survey indicates that the top 10% of households hold about three quarters of the nation's private wealth. moreover the bottom half of all households own about 1%. i like to say this is a novel way of thinking about the 1%. what is frequently overlooked in these disparities is that they are even more pronounced when we consider race.

for instance they collectively make up about 30% of the u.s. population but collectively own about 7% of the nation's private wealth. despite that enormous disparities. it seems to be that the civil rights. the sentiment is coupled with the notion that blacks need to stop making excuses and ultimately take personal responsibility for their low economic position. under underinvestment in personal and human capital on the part of blacks. if blacks and other communities of color simply would reduce their attitudes and behaviors full equality could be achieved. it is as if after the passage of the civil rights legislation the conventional explanation evolved from ones

that were biological to not ones that are based in cultural determinism. when it comes to liquid assets blacks and latinos are nearly penniless. they head about a 200 dollar liquid assets in comparison to 23,000 for white families moreover if retirement savings are removed than the typical black family in latino family latina family respectively had about $25 and $100. it's a little financial cushion to deal with any expected or unexpected budgetary shortfalls. twenty-five dollars probably would not be enough feed a family of four for one day in terms of debt we know that all data is not the same. some debt is indicative of good financial health. housing debt should provide americans with access to finance to purchase economic

security of the house or job in a professional sector. whereas credit card debt and other unsecured debt has been associated with the liability of an exhaustive consumption going or some other depreciating asset. what we traditionally conceived of as good and bad debt has different implications when we consider race and the prevailing framework of targeting unprivileged racial groups. as well as ongoing housing and labor market discriminations that limit the choice set on the rate of return. i am alluding somewhat to the for-profit incentives that takes place largely on the part of vulnerable populations. further the growing context where they have less control

over when and how long they work make access to short-term credit even more essential. it should not be surprising to see more americans turn to credit cards to meet budgetary shortfalls as demonstrated in the few with the research center. there is greater vulnerability of having virtually no liquid assets for black and latino families which leads them to turn to other unconditional lending products like payday loans as a last resort to deal with any number of financials. this last resort has demonstrated the work from nyu financial diaries project where their respondents indicate that they only turn to those products like payday lending once they've exhausted other adoptions.

they are marketed as short-term hold over loans until borrowers next payday. the big problem with these they often lead to a debt trap that absorbs more and more of the borrowers income and interest and fees until ultimately the borrower defaults on the original principal. they report on american debt concludes that the racial wealth gap has more to do with a lack of assets then racial variations in debt or an abundance of debt on the part of the black and latinos. they cite other research is suggesting that inheritance are benefiting whites to a much larger extent. dominant discourse upheld by democrats, republicans blacks

and whites alike still emphasize education personal responsibility on the part of lax themselves at the mechanism to bridge the racial divide. the implications of this discourse is a shift as i mentioned in the public sentiment away from a public responsibility for the conditions of black americans. yet over the past 40 years regardless of education the unemployment rate has remained roughly twice as high as the white rate. in contrast it has been four years in which the white rate has reached 8%. as republican pundits declared during the 2012 election cycle. then the perpetual state of an employment crisis. furthermore white high school

dropouts had lower unemployment rates that blacks who had completed some college or earned an associate's degree. the numbers do not fully capture the relationship between joblessness in discouraged workers to drop out of the labor force altogether between incarceration and joblessness we have a small segment who is not counted on. in spite of the enormous disparities the discourse again is focused on education the presumption is that if they were only more responsible and focus on education than they could get a good job and pursue a pathway towards economic security. education is not the case. a report by janel jones entailed a college degree is no guarantee indicates that the unemployment rate for recent black college graduates exceeds 12% and is as high as 10% for blacks that had acquired a major in the stem

field. why study and working hard is it enough for black americans critiques that preponderance of research and public policy that asserts that education and hard work are the drivers. especially as it relates to racial and ethnic disparity. high levels of education among wealthy individuals that does not mean that education attainment led to high levels of wealth. i will report highlights that for lack families whose have erred the college degree the typical network is about $23,000 while the typical white family has close to eight times that amount with about $180,000 in wealth. this amounts to difference of about $160,000. so further black families who had of the family graduated

from college had only two thirds of the wealth of white families where the had dropped out of high school. i will repeat that. black families with a college degree had less wealth than white families where the have of the family dropped out of high school. so college degree is associated with wealth and employment but is limited in explaining disparities across the race. it's noteworthy that a good job is not the great equalizer either. and comfort white families have more wealth than middle income black families in the typical white family whose have is out and played has nearly twice the wealth as a black family whose have is employed full-time. about 23 versus $12,000. the typical black family whose have is unemployed has zero wealth to deal with their economic calamity. or employment gaps none of this is intended to diminish the value of education.

there is a clear intrinsic value to education along with the public responsibility to expose everyone with high-quality education that teaches them to to synthesize and diffuse information defuse information into big ideas with encouraging teachers and trained to deliver curriculum from grade school through college. evidence from the social science research confirms that black students and their families are doing more with less when it comes to educational attainment. this research is done by economist patrick mason and the sociologist. as well as another report. i can send you this if you're interested. it demonstrates that blacks of ten more years of schooling than whites and they come from where they both had families with comparable resources. so clearly it's a method that black families do not value education. it's also problematic that a societal overemphasis on the

economic return to education to address social barriers of racial economic conclusion. they directly follow from a post- racial perspective where the free market as long as individual agents are properly incentivized is supposed to be the solution for all of our problems economic or otherwise ultimately this overemphasis on individual optimization and under emphasis on group formation and collective action accentuates differences in different attributes. the motivation and end to its as the x nations. it does not address the underlying structures of disparity and thus they will serve the role of reinforcing social hierarchy. i will skip along because i think i'm running a little bit over time. regardless of race public

sector jobs and real work wage continue to plummet. however, corporate profits remain at all-time highs. yet the current fiscal policy approach to use tax incentives to control already record profit earnings private sector that provides more jobs or the implementation which emphasizes that the deficit reduction by cutting the spending on essential safety net programs to revitalize the economy and lessen the national debt become problematic. in lieu of private-sector track my colleague and i as well as various other colleagues propose the federal job guarantee. which would provide the economic security of a job in the removal of the thread of unemployment for all americans. the federal job guarantee

program could insure the opportunity to work with decent pay becomes a citizenship right having americans out of work does immense damage to the human spirit and imposes extensive costs both individuals in society. the federal government could establish a national investment employment course offering the employment guarantee and a minimum salary of $23,000 was say $10,000 in benefits including medical coverage in retirement support and upper estimate on the extent of the program can be established by putting all 15 million unemployed workers at the peak of the employment crisis and amine salary of $40,000 inclusive of material and equipment and $10,000 in benefits the total compensation of this program would amount to $750 billion which is less than the

$787 billion stimulus package unless the first phase of the bailout of investment banks of 1.3 trillion dollars. it would be far superior to the indirect tax measures that are aimed at bribing the private sectors. it would have a direct mechanism and trigger a multiplier stimulus affect across a wide canopy of activities that place in economy. correspondingly the net expenses of the job guarantee program would be reduced by a wide array of cost savings from other social programs that could be eliminated or dramatically reduce considered the and 2011 the federal anti- poverty budget amounted to approximately $746 billion. with the federal government acting as the employer of last resort unemployment compensation funding could be slashed. they could be slashed as

well. the income paid to employees from the federal job guarantee could restore tax bases from state and municipal levels it could alleviate current budget crisis. the medical coverage provided by the job benefit. would provide that option leading to coverages a millions of americans the need for market interventions like the minimum wage could be strongly curtailed since the flow on the private sector would effectively be set by the minimum wage that a federal job guarantee could offer. a state state and local municipalities could conduct inventory needs and develop job tasks. i will save what types of jobs could be used. basically we could provide public infrastructure support for both human capital and physical capital type jobs. the job guarantee would function as it automatic

stabilizer and that it would mitigate the personal and familiar cost of damage and other stressors faced by the unemployed. they often say they would rather be paid to work then receive unemployment compensation. it would be good for unions as well. it would increase their bargaining power. i will just throw that out there for you. not only what a would a federal job guarantee restore psychological balance in dignity to millions of unemployed individuals who desire to work i cannot it would also address the long-standing unjust discriminatory barriers that keep large segments of populations out of the labor force in reverse the rising tide of inequality for all workers by strengthening their labor market power and eliminating the threat of unemployment for all workers. finally, i see the problem is largely a political and not

economic program so we need movements that will take place right now so i applaud the younger generation who often are criticized for putting forth of the pickle pressure that might allow us to put forth both -- bold policies. [applause]. [applause]. we had time for questions. [indiscernible]

>> they take the estimated score so that they have the sender. 60% went to the winner. then they would take the average of those. that would give you the score for that state for that year. i wonder if you can look at this. [indiscernible] do you instances where you've seen a change to more liberal or vice versa. i have looked at the i have not broken it down by gear or state.

and then i wonder you are talking about economic history angles. between the incarceration rates. >> i wanted a measure that i could use to compare these. let me go back. there are couple of things if we go back here next okay. so basically it was difficult because for instance if you look at high school equivalency that was way down

in new zealand. a lot of issues it's difficult to take these state variables. even looking at they were adding to that. in new zealand you could be one 16th. depending on where you are at. you're listed in one quarter. legally you're no longer native hawaiian. some of them become really difficult in terms of data. i was looking for a measure

that seems to be the most reliable. i wanted something that reflected the relationship of the individual with the state. and the in the state in an action. this is something i'm also trying to see. i wonder what the relationship would be like. [indiscernible] i wonder if this is something that you can look at here. and look at the change and incarceration rates. and then look at the relationship between those two things. and maybe historically i think it's an economic argument behind those rates.

in the story that were doing in montana a lot of people are there for parole violations. it's either lack of economic resources this is a nice statistic. they are incarcerated for driving without a license. they lost their license years ago and they've never been able to get it back. your people locked up for different things. it's not nice not being white. also the sentencing is harsher.

that is what we are looking at. there is an economic argument in that was some of those figures. is that reflection of high levels of poverty. a lot of people are incarcerated for drug and alcohol offenses. then once again in its parole violations. ..

i enjoy all it, i think, there, so, our particular discussion, the role of the federal jobs, and, back and i turned, it, something, and, so, possibly, we are listed, so there are a couple of points, that i believe that perhaps you have in your lecture notes that, you may not have a chance to mention. so, in essence, your proposal

amounts to almost employment targeting. you have inflation target. so, in light of, it in terms of thinking about the level, what would be the natural rate of unemployment, that would entail, for let's say blacks and hispanics, you have very high, on a persistent level. in light of the fact that some, when you speak to employers, often, what they will tell you is lack of some skills, a segment. population who are really not employable, in that sense. so that's one. and then you have the other employed, some provision in

thinking that, reach, the large population when they come out, and have some form of police records, how do you engage them also so they are productive, in that sort of vision of true employment targeting, for those workers right now. >> thank you for those questions. i would say, let's begin with the soft skill argument. in work that i have done, austin, and william, we look at what we call occupational crowding scores. that's the share of a group, in a particular occupation, relative to their share, with the educational requirements for those type of jobs. what we find is that there is probably not, to your surprise,

gross under representation, of managal manager, and look at say construction and service jobs. both of those jobs require not high levels of the education. construction, they're hard to outsorbs. relatively high pay. blacks are grossly under-represented. and also, relate evidence to the construction industry where it might have exacerbated, ine queulty and without taking it into account, but, addressing your question, the so-called soft skills become more relevant for jobs where you have contact, through customers, through the

phone or even contact than they do the construction industry. they are over represented in the service, and that's not proof but at least suggest turf evidence, to say that, soft skills might not be driving all the disparityes it that we see, if you walk by you could get printing programs, and nonetheless, the negotiations of how to motivate workers, whether they are black or not will be something that we would have to develop further with the federal job guarantee. going onto the issue with the natural rate of unemployment, i would say that sphig a concept, that was put together without,

that i would say is based, on normative interpretations. we know it is not natural, in that it fluke would fluke waits. so under federal job, there would be no natural rate of unemployment. it would be a citizen right to have a job, so there would be no voluntary unemployment. we should do away with it. >> so, in the 1940s, the first black economist, not first black woman, argued that the government should provide a job to everybody who wanted a job. she viewed it as a right of citizen and as a human right. she knew that it would benefit

black workers, who faced discrimination, and she also noted that it would help top decrease racial animosity. and she was concerned about the rise of fascism when the war ended. but when we, i think, poll a settlement of the white population, we find there are many people who are reluctant to support policies, if they believe that it will benefit blacks. all right. so they vote against it. how do you, how do we overcome that problem? >> well, perhaps surprising the rolling stones conducted a poll, i believe it was scientific,. [laughter] >> i mean, i have no ron not to believe it wasn't scientific -- >> magazine. [laughter]

>> that's nice. a majority of americans, supported the federal job guarantee. of course, how questions are phrased on surveys matter. but over 50% of americans. i think the values are consistent, with our values of work. work, like this should be something that conservatives and democrats alike should latch onto. it is productive work. i didn't make the case for the jobs that are needed. we're not just talking about physical infrastructure jobs and childcare. so human infrastructure jobs could be done as well. we could have work in schools and dealing with you know, taking care of elders, and young people.

there's plenty of work to be done. we can make the case. >> your points are well taken. >> well, i guess, you can't always say what you wants, but you get what you need. rolling stones. [laughter] >> two things. one, while i praise what you are saying, just look, i know it's slightly different or maybe very different. look at what happened in switzerland, they, something like 80% voted against minimum income. so, i mean, you have a country like switzerland that votes something like that down, what are the odds in this country? probably also, more important me, what are you going to do, unauthorized workers? what's going to happen to them?

are they going to be part of this? do they lose their jobs now and have to retreat because they can't officially -- how are you going to deal with that? >> i mean we need immigration reform and that's a cop-out answer. but, it would be right, to be honest it would be a citizen right, having undocumented workers, access to the federal job guarantee, there's the issue of, legality, where i'm in favor of transitioning these americans, here and taking them, so that they have doctorcu minute tasting. so that needs to take place. so, it would not be able to address it directly, without comprehensive immigration reform

>> employment programs, would fact kel the income ine quality. but not the wealth inequality. you talked about the wealth gap. it doesn't get you, to wealth. >> great points. so, i was charged with doing the federal job guarantee. but, we have talked about baby

bonds, every birth, every american, as a birth right would get another trust account that would be based on the family position, so, if you are from the most -- a trust account up to $50,000. it would be universus sal, so that everyone would have access, eastern bill gates, and the mean account could be $20,000. these accounts would be held in federal trust so that not parent accounts, they're aimed to shield children from the decision of their parent. but they would be reserved towards like the purchase of a new home. like a debt free college education or start a business. i won't go into detail, so we can have a robust conversation.

we have written about this, and this is aimed at address wag you described the source of inequality. i believe that young adults that have access to the seed capital, put them on a different path from those that don't. why not allow every american, by giving them initial capital to start? >> david add question about switzerland. i think the difference here, switzerland, the minimum income, this is a job. so they're giving people a job -- >> but -- the vote, in a very progressive country i think the context is important because if you see, it's one thing to say they're very progressive. but there's been a lot of immigration, and the people become -- limousine liberals -- [laughter]

>> they are progressive up until a point. >> so, i think if you mat argument of jobs and hard work and grit, people will support that. >> productive jobs. we always get the question about basic income versus federal job guarantee. i would favor a federal job guarantee, over, income, although i repeople.^ you can have them both. because there's productive work to be done in the u.s. as well, as the fact that the basic income, if it is not graduated in terms of two gets it, it can be inflation favor, and it could enhance inequality, the argument is that you use the tax code to address the inequality issue. but, it would be far less efficient than a federal job

guarantee for some of the reasons i mentioned, and then, also there's value to a job itself, which is, i don't want to under emphasize that we should think about as well. >> college graduate, they'll take a $23,000 job. >> remember, in this down turn, and remember what you said, the unemployment rate for blacks, with much higher education was higher than for white high school dropouts. so you say to a black person, with an a.d., you get $23,000 -- >> absolutely not. that's not what i'm saying. as a federal job guarantee, the minimum would be 23,000. so if you have skills you would qualify for more than the minimum. nor does a federal job guarantee force work.

you can choose to take it or not it. provides a basic floor level and graduated base posed your skill set and the type of job that you would be doing. >> i enjoyed all the papers. i have small things about it, and i'll leave those for later. i just want to say you compared the cost of an employ meant guarantee, to the stimulus, and, the bank it's a nice comparisont it's -- senior moment, it's vulnerable to attack because the 750 billion would be every year

as opposed to the one time, 787 billion. so think about framing it in some other way. it might be less vulnerable to counterattack. also the discussion, about soft and i will hard skill labor market, just, you can weave in the segment of labor market. the overlap, with racial hierarchy, and, so, black and hispanics get into the secondary market, got jobs. they don't get the good jobs, but the bad jobs. >> i agree with the later part and your point is well taken. the stimulus was a one time intervention. but we also put, point out the context of the federal anti

poverty budget which is ongoing. we could perhaps emphasize that even more. >> did you super a question or a comment? >> at one point you had, the number of tactical items, so, it sound like, count the same -- right, so. i was just wondering about some other way to have -- >> break it down. because you have it category riced, and, what i wanted to do, was just -- it's future work. >> one thing, you showed the mining in metric tons. but it might be a better way,

might be metric tons per cap take. that's a good . >> we have michael followed by january and mad. >> you also have, it, and, the number of crimes. i wonder if you could split off violent crimes. because police might be more likely to have asalt guns, and, attack on police officers, and you could do a nice test of are

attacks on police officers, causing them to militarize? >> and that would be a very interesting paper to read. another one, related to your paper, might be another extension of that, where you would have the segregation and the racial makeup of a community, and the police force as well. the wages and unemployment reminded me of a discussion, where, seeing a similar if a noon nol where poor countries have seen their years of education increasing. we're measure it go wrong. they're getting more school but they're not necessarily learning anything.

so, it could be the case, that, in segments of the population, both kids are going for 12 years, and one kid is learning a lot more. we know there's inequality through the school system. we fund our schooling systems locally. poor schools, and, rich neighborhoods and good schools. perhaps there might be, either, an aller naive to the jobs program might be a better distribution of schooling and make sure they are getting an equal education and have better learning outcome. 12 years of schooling and two years of college is not the same for everybody.

additional school not giving me much. something else to look at. >> i'm i'm a college professor, i'm all for good education and education reform for intrinsic values, and people should have access, especially in the united states to good quality education. i'm for blowing up the talent, and gifted programs and giving it to everybody. why should some have access and not others. it breeds other forms. in the development literature we also questioned the role of education as a measure of human capital as opposed to, is it a signal? many things of what it can mean. the question about blacks and whites getting different education for the same years of attain meant, well, it is hard o

argue that a college educated black person should end up with less wealth than a white high school dropout. it's hard to argue, that they should have greater access to a job. it's hard to argue. >> even me, who doubts the value of these test scores, if you control, for test score so you have some measure, the bureau of labor statistics has, in this month, so if you're black, and controlling it, and everybody here knows way think of that. but, controlling for that,

blacks are 50% more likely than whites to go into a long-term spell of unemployment and 33% less likely once in that spell to be able to escape t. so, i mean, i think, the disparities, as derek laid out, are so dramatic, it isn't the case that blacks, with associate degrees are given degrees out of politeness or paying attention while you were in community college and whites were in these wonderful high schools, that do a marvelous job. i don't think we need to concede. the numbers are too stark. i would say the test scores are

more likely to have value, about employment. and there they do not explain the unemployment gap. an employer upon interviewing you, says, this isn't so sharp. i'm not going to hire them. if i hire you and i pay you less because i don't think you have the skills. and, way more difficult because, the idea that that an employis more able, to do than i can at least rank people on whether i think you have the general skills duty job. that's easier for me to accept. when you do, look, and, you said

that the u.s. is extracting gold from the mines. and i didn't understand the ownership issue. >> so, what, when, when it was looking like it may be up for grabs. there were two kind of big things going on. one was, the mining, and the fact that americans, and outside interest wanted access to that mine. and the other was indonesia. and they wanted it for the resources. i haven't figured out why they were allowed to go independent. but it was a british colony as opposed to the dutch. but, there was the fact that,

indonesia was playing cold war politics between the u.s. and russia. and trying to garner support for taking it. so, i found de regulate he briefings, from committees singer, and helping to sthipt, became a member of the board of the mining company that took that contract. so, i haven't quite made that link. it's in the paper but -- so much of that is like, in there, and, the one thing that i wonder, is like the numbers to tie it all down to, at this point. so that's what was going. so, in that little piece of history, mining and the interest behind it, were kind of paramount. so, yeah, it's kind of, it's -- i think this whole thing is an

argument against transpacific partnership. [laughter] >> yeah. not one of them is indonesian, in chance of the history, since 196 0ebs a lot of what happened

in the states here, has been paralegalled. they have looked at australia and the u.s. children are removed from families they are sent to other islands. they are put with islamic families and then sent back. so, that boarding school stuff, that went on, in the states, and in canada is happening right now. so just, those structures, which were dismantled are playing them out now with the support of the australian and u.s. government. >> but, if you point it, look at the picture of the children.

what does it look like? >> that kid could be in mississippi. he looks like a little black kid in mississippi. doesn't look like the kind of person that the united states would ever side with. >> is there a way to construct which is convincing the acquisition of weapon, and, the behavior, so in a sense that it seems like just because there is a missing link somewhere, that, you know, so, is there training, would training and sensitivity training, this sort of thing,

mitigate the affect of mill will a tarah sayings. >> that's something that i am going to address in my sabbatical. what kind of training, don't be too aggressive. but, training might be just the opposite. i hope to be able to find the answers to those, but that's one of the things that i want to look at. i want to look at the details. i don't have an answer to that yet. in terms of the literature, there's not been a lot of discussion about or any sort of framework, on saying, behavior modification.

there's been little stuff of wearing military outfits and behavior, looking at colors of the outfits. whether it is blue or black. how people respond to police who wear it. there hasn't been much there. hopefully, i can fill a lot of that. >> we need break for dinner. but, i would like to thank the a.f.l.-c.i.o. for co responsesoring the summer conference and thank all of our pan nael lists. [applause]

throughout this month we're showing book t.v. programs, during the week in prime-time. in case you're not familiar, book t.v., takes our public affairs programming, and focuses on the latest non fiction. and our signature programs are in-depth, 3 hour look at one author's book. in-depth airs the first sunday at noon eastern. afterwards, a one-on-one conversation between an author, and an interviewer. and often with an opposing viewpoint. we'll take you across the country, where they talk about their latest works. book t.v. is the only national

network devoted to non fix. >> today, gerard robinson, former virginia education, he talks about his career, and education policy in in the u.s. that's at 7 p.m. eastern. on book t.v., criminal justice, starting at 8 p.m. on afterwards. barry and the rise and fall of violent crime in america. >> author of incarceration nation. a journey to justice, from the times book festival. >> at 9:30 from the war on poverty to the war on crime, the making of mass incarceration in america. >> 9:30 with a good month for murder, the inside story a homicide squad.

at 11:10, the former inmate discusses rioting my wrong. all this coming up tonight on book t.v. in prime-time on c-span 2. >> with the white house and representatives from hillary clinton and donald trump's presidential campaigns, we'll show you a discussion, with former white house chiefs of staff. here's josh bolton, and, telling the story of homeland security working with janet, on inauguration day. >> one other thing that we did, we asked the homeland security secretary, mike, who had planned a vacation with his wife,

beginning at 1 p.m. on january 20th, we asked him to stick around for a day. during the inauguration bay he was in an offsite with the in coming secretary of homeland security in a control center where they could monitor all the threat center. and we asked him, even though his authority would be eliminated. we asked him, stick around, be there, for advice and so on for the secretary as she takes the reins. it turned out to be important because there was as threat on on inauguration day. it was -- it was into the actual threat. but there was credible intelligence suggesting, an attack at the inauguration

itself on the mall. >> we'll have more, tonight, with former white house chiefs' of staff. it is part of a series of events, and took place at the george w. bush library. starting at 8 eastern on c-span. >> up next, a number of middle east scholars discuss turkey's political feature following a failed military coup. and they talked about it, and the u.s., and e.u. and nato. the turkish president met with putin and they have had chilly relations, since last november. >> can you hear me?

i'm don wallace. professors always want quiet in the classroom. i want to welcome you. you'ller hearing from them, who are the forces behind this. our topic, post attempted coun in turkey. i have a per mon nol interest in turkey because i servedtion as the regional adviser, and i wrote a book called introduction to turkish law. everyone know how significant it is.

figure out which one doesn't work. i think we all know how important turkey is, to the united states, a member of nato. it's a central power, in dealing with troubles in its neighborhood, and let's see how it all plays out today. you're in charge. be sure to speak up. >> thank, can you hear me, the back? okay. great. let me first welcome all of you,

to our special seminar on turkey. and, first-and-foremost, i would like to welcome our panelists and speakers. let me first introduce them, in that order. fortunate licks we do have the the by owes of the speakers. >> to my right is the directorty director of the center for the study of extremism and he was a professor, and chair of social

ongy. >> he was a chief, former chief of counter-terrorism and operations division for the turn kirk national police. next is the doctor, who is visiting assistant professor and director of the institute for turkish studies, school of foreign service, at georgetown university. again, he has a very extensive experience, particularly, in the academic, having educated, in the u.k., published, in the field.

next to him, now the director of the center of the united states and europe, turkey project. he is also very distinguished work in turkey and there's a long list. particularly, it would also deal with, the e.u., turkish relations. and, next, to him is vice-president of research of the foundation for the defense of the democracies in washington. again, if you look at his brief

resume you will see that, he had experience also, in the u.s. government, in the department of treasury and some of the same things, in town and he published, in the field. now, i would like to mention that this particular event, as many others that we organize, we have co upon source in addition to the international law institute and, of course, we do have the potomac institute. the center, the international center for terrorism studies. we are honored, always, to have

with us, general gray, who is going to make some closing remarks. as you know, he is the 29th comment dance of the united states marie corp. so, i like to welcome also the audience, and i recognize, in the audience, many academics and government officials, with very distinguished i think experience in the area, that we're going to discuss. what we're going to do, is to give the speakers, and the

panelists an opportunity to speak for ten minutes to be followed by "q and a." and certainly, we welcome the input of the audience, and so on. now, in addition to that, i, just for one second, will try to use the very sophisticated technology, if it works. okay. i do hope that you can see, in the back, particularly, i think it is important to see the the perspective what we're trying to achieve in a very short period of time. deal with some of the historical contexts of the kirk -- the

turkish republic and then the security challenges, related to terror rich, with the islamic state. the refugee crisis, and internal politics. and the government structure, and the rule of law. economic development and so on. finally, the exten nall reasons which really covers the entire world, dealing all the way from u r u.n. to u.s., the arab and muslim world. i think that, it depends on the interest also of the audience. now, may i make two additional

footnotes and then we'll call the panelists to make the presentations. i'm trying always to look at the forest, as well, as the trees. >> with turkey, you can't look at it without looking the broader picture the west and the united states. i always try to look at the so-called lessons, that would command our attention. thank you. they know what to do.

so, some 20 years ago, in august, 1996, you can see that bin laden issued a very important declaration of war against the west and against the united states and indeed, against the entire world. particularly, bin laden called for the attacks, on americans, and i mention this because, this is an issue of national security in the united states and also, abroad. so this is the picture, in terms of the challenges. so, turkey, is one challenge, that is a partner this the battle against terrorism in general.

the second one, which i remember very vif -- vividly goes back to 1979, when the turkish ambassador in paris and his driver were assassinated, by the secret army. i mention this because everybody is focusing, today, about the so-called coup and the implications but one is to look at the historical context as well, in order to appreciate what's happening. now, we do have the panel and speakers are turns, and, with that kind of back ground, but, i

want to make sure that, the discussions, and the presentation of the discussion of the audience, and they do not represent, necessaryly, the views, of the co-sponsors, and discussions. we recognize the interests, and i would like to mention one more thing. some of us, the work on this issue, we have worked for a very long time. why turkey? i like to mention, the work that goes back to the 1960s, in terms of our studies and work, on

turkey, in turkey, with turkish universities, and, in the u.s. around the world. >> there were many other publications, that we built, we felt this was the publication that was developed at the time in order to develop a coalition around the world, to deal with security concerns. finally, also, we tried to focus on particularly, the challenges, such as the -- al-qaeda,

translated in many languages, including turkish and also special publications, which we published there on turkey. and interests, to join the e.u. so, with that i would like to mention that today's seminar is another one in the many seminars that we conducted in turkey and around the world on many of the issues, with the exception of the coup that just took place. we always try to strike a balance between the security considerations and the human rights issues. therefore, i think we can conduct the discussion today. so, i would invite our panel

lefts to make their presentation. initially ten minutes and then more time. >> good afternoon. my name, currently, deputy director, and, counter-terrorism, department in turkey. i would like to start and confine my comments because of the time. >> the coup attempt, or the coup, intervention. i think it is all good, that we

all understand, how i am in support of democracy and rule of law. it is essential that we keep the rule of law and respectful to the human rights and freedom of speech. i wouldi would like to start, w, and it started at 10 p.m., while everybody was up. so, this was the question, that started for me, why it didn't happen before. so, today, we have 15 days, they were arrested. 165, i guess around 350

generals. and, we still do not know who was behind the coup in terms of the name of the generals, and the people who conducted the coup. so this is another big question for me. also, everybody knows, today, if you are going to make an attempt to a coup, you need cut the communication in the internet. this was not done. they only confiscated, radio and television. which almost nobody watches in turkey. all the channels were free to block out any problems. nobody from the government was arrested, including the prime minters and several minters. they were up in the public talking about the coup attempt. and very abruptly, the parliament was bumped, and still

don't know who bumped it. there were other rumors, that other places were going to be bombed. so, then i look at it, from a distance. i really don't understand what kind of coup it was. they were doomed. they were going to be arrested and have problems. this coup was carried out, that they wanted to say. so, what was it? was it a godsend gift for the government to establish a new revolution? i don't know. with the evidence -- i don't

want to talk about them, but i would like to put on the table what i have. i can till, teachers, he used to tell us, if you would like to see who is behind an attack you should look at who benefits from it. now, i was in the operations division, for 20 years in turkey. i know the police, and, counter-terrorism people. just three hours after the jet

landed, at the airport officers were arrested or they started to arrest those officers around turkey. some of them, were not, and some of them were on vacation, and some were against the coup. from a tech that cal standpoint, in three hours, the chief of police, i cannot make a list of 1,500 people, find out, and, where they live, and then, get the paperwork ready, all over turkey and start to arrest them. so this is the biggest question i have. when i look at the other, today, there are almost 90,000 people arrested. it tells me that they were

prepared way before the coup attempt. 6 months or a year, because it is impossible to figure out who is who or who was behind a coup in this fashion. if you look at the people, who were approached, they were police officers, journalists, and doctors, and, nothing to do with the coup. we go from that, to what happened after what? as soon as the coup attempt happened, the blame start to came out. first blame, here in the united states. claimed to be behind the coup and then the second was the americans. we started to see in ted