even if we just work with congress for an emergency fund on the day of the event. that way if polling places are reporting results over the internet, which i bet of bunch are doing, that simple that you run for $1000 can't take that down. for a relatively low amount of money we can do some of those common sense things that make sense whatever political party you are. >> alright, with, with that, i think we will end it. it is 130 so thank you all for coming. we will be around later with our badges and our hoodies.

thanks everybody for being here. [inaudible conversation] [inaudible conversation] [inaudible conversation] tonight the communicators visits middle east broadcasting network

including other u.s. sponsored broadcast news. we spoke with the president of the middle east broadcast network. fran myers, producer and the digital managing editor of raise your voice about how they share democratic values that would not otherwise be exposed to a wider spectrum. >> we have been on air for 12 years and i think the audience has come to learn it's not propaganda. we do try to be balanced but we also provide topics and we cover topics and information that is not really available. >> there aren't enough people telling the stories of how difficult it is to be a woman and a girl child. how many stories have we done on child marriages. i can't count. you can't do enough because really in the middle east they're not telling that story because it's too close to home.

>> there was a campaign we launched in september 2015 to encourage encourage people in the middle east to engage and be part of the discussion of important issues in the region. they include extremism and real causes of extremism, unemployment, unemployment, women's right and all these issues that are part in. >> watch the communicators tonight at eight eastern on c-span2. >> a signature of book tv is our coverage of book fairs across the country featuring nonfiction authors. book tv will be live at the mississippi book festival for their second literary party in jackson. they feature education polly

policy and authors with written biographies on former presidents. they also discuss a book on political polarization. go to booktv.org for the complete weekend schedule. >> the ambassador of the democratic republic of congo and specialist in the region will participate in a discussion on the political crisis in the congo and the u.s. role in the region. the brookings institution is hosting the event. this is live coverage on c-span2

good morning everyone. welcome to brookings. i'm with the foreign policy program. it's great to see you on a day that is a nice warm afternoon. we are going to talk about the future of the democratic republic of congo. a wonderful country that we had the great privilege of serving in as peace corps volunteers. i will introduce the panelists in just a moment. we have tom who is the president and special envoy to the great lakes region of africa and the ambassador. i will speak about each one of these fine gentlemen in just a moment in a little more detail as we prepared to get into our discussion. let me frame things for you a little bit today. this is part of the usual brookings event where the policy questions before us will be in

fact the future of the rc and especially the future of its politics in a year when just like our own political system is supposed to have an election and yet that is in considerable doubt at the moment as most of you know by virtue of being here and interested in the first place. for those who wandered by or for those who are channel surfing and getting tired of watching beach volleyball or something at the olympics, let me just say that right now we have the formal expectation of a november 2016 election in drc just as we do in the united states. that is in considerable doubt. the incumbent president who has been in office since 2001 and therefore has served now virtually to entire elected terms plus one previous term that he essentially inherited when his father was assassinated and he took office back at the very beginning of the century. he is still a young man.

he's only 45 years old and there is speculation as to whether the president is intentionally delaying these elections in order to figure out a way to stay in office longer, perhaps even reef think the constitution to allow for more than two terms. like most country, congo congo has a constitution that only allows for two formal residential terms because he started essentially inheriting his father's term in office he has done the equivalent of three terms already but there is the question as to whether he, like other presidents in the central african region that we discussed at times here brookings, he may also try to stay longer. this is an issue all over the world, we know. we know president vladimir putin found a way to come back into

the office. we know that ugandan president just celebrated, if if that's the right word, his 30th year in office. we know that the rwanda president is still in office and has aspirations to stay longer than about battle me or put in may be able to keep himself in office. this is a problem because we don't know what to do about it. some of these leaders have done good things for their country and one could knowledge that he has presided over a period when the rc has become somewhat more peaceful yet it has enduring challenges. the question is, is he the right guy to keep going forward. does he have aspirations to keep going forward and where are we in the politics of this country? i'm going to get out of the way here in just a second and let the panelists bq. one more one more thing about the rules of the road, the congo ambassador who is a very

distinguished long-standing servant of this country and has been an ambassador to many countries in south asia, most recently in southeast asia, south africa, various jobs at the un and long-standing under several presidents, or i guess three congo presidents, he will speak in french. his english english is excellent. we have been speaking in english before but given the sensitivity of these topics he is asked for the opportunity to make sure he gets every single, and participle absolutely correct because we are talking about things that matter to his country with relationship to the rest of the country and the united states. to his right is an interpreter who will help translate his remarks in english. we will do opening comments, they they will be in the vicinity of ten or 12 moments or

what other people choose. then we will have a discussion amongst ourselves and go back to you. let me say couple words about these individuals who you can read about in the materials that were provided out front. anthony gambino has been a lifelong advocate for activists regarding an servant of the people of the rc as well as the people of the united states he has done a number of of jobs in u.s. government that have concerned the republic of congo. he and i were peace corps volunteers together some 30+ years ago. he never never lost the bug for congo. he worked with a id for many years and was the country directory for a id in the rc for 15 or 16 or 18 years ago. around the turn of the century when kabila was coming into office.

he was the first one that president kabila one through the ballot box. he was elected president by official procedures. the honorable tom terry yellow is from the state of virginia. he serves for president obama has the envoy to the great lakes region of africa for a couple years. we had him last year when he spoke about rwanda and delicate moments and countries like rwanda and in the case that have had presidents who have sought to stay on longer than our two-term construct this is his mandate to think about these countries and the entirety of

these violence and instability in the united states wants to do what it can to help stabilize this crucial part of africa. i should say that the rc is, as most most of you know one of the three or four pivotal states of africa by any measure. its population is now about 80 million plus or minus. that is third after nigeria and ethiopia on the continent. the landmasses second after algeria. algeria is largely desert which means the rc's final way the largest country in terms of available land with a lot of resources on it in all of africa. we all used to here 15 or 20 years ago about how this was the place where there had been a great war for great interstate war in africa because the rc orders nine different countries and it's right there in the middle of the continent.

it's maybe only a slight exaggeration to say that as the rc goes, so goes much of africa. the ambassador has served this country with distinction in the diplomatic tower for roughly a quarter century. he is a native of the kasai region of north-central rc. he has served overseas in much of southeast asia, in south africa and he's been president kabila's representative to ambassadors in the united states since last summer. i think given the distinctive resumes we have here, this is a way to stop myself and make a clean break, please help me join them and welcome them all to brookings. [applause] now we will work down the line starting with anthony and bino. >> thank you mike. it's a pleasure to be here again

and to share the podium with these individuals. the special envoy is a global leader in writing a pathway to peace. all of us are tremendously grateful for what he is doing. we had a similar meeting at brookings last november. i stated then that congo was already in electoral crisis last november. sadly, the situation has only deteriorated. congo today is roughly one month away from a full-fledged constitutional crisis. this morning i will try to do three things. first i will briefly talk about the critical constitutional issues, second second i will discuss the views of civil society on what to do and third i will offer closing thoughts on how to move forward. of course i represent no one but

myself. so first the facts of this crisis. perhaps the most important thing that i would ask you to remember is this crisis is entirely manufactured. congo should not be at this point. the congo's constitution is clear. the congolese president is limited. no one can serve more than 25 your terms therefore he is nearing the end of his final term as mike indicated in his opening comments. no one, and i mean no one, including those who support president kabila disputes this. presidential elections must be held every five years. congo has already had two elections, as mike said, 2006, 2006, 2011 in fulfillment with the constitutional requirement. on february 12, 2015, last year, the congolese independent electoral commission referred to

as its french initials as cen i published a calendar. it scheduled national assembly elections for november 27, 2016, with the inauguration of the new president on december 20, 2016. yet today we find ourselves in a situation where congo is not ready for the constitutionally required presidential election of 2016. why is that? what's the problem? last november this is what i said. i said president kabila's supporter have been doing everything they can to distract, delay and undercut the holding of national elections on time. judged by their actions they have only one aim, keeping the president in power as long as possible. regrettably, nothing has happened to suggest even the slightest alteration in that statement from last november.

rather president kabila himself has reinforced this by stating just the other week that congo will have an election. he didn't specify if it would be local or national after the preparation of a new voter rule. what's wrong with that? here's what's wrong, the preparation of the new voter role is scheduled for completion about a year from now. as i already stated the president's term, his final term expires on december 19, in a few months. also earlier this year the president obtained a ruling from a constitutional court stating that he can remain in office until his successor is inaugurated, however long that takes. i won't discuss the debate on the merits of that decision other than to say the opposition in civil society reject this interpretation. recent actions by the congolese

government to remove ida's layer, the human rights researcher facing congo who is renowned for the quality and objectivity of her work as well as dubious legal action taken against the leading opposition presidential candidate reinforced that the congolese government is moving in the wrong direction and isn't taking the serious steps required to create an atmosphere of confidence that will respect the constitution. now i want to focus on an article of the constitution that is so clear and so important that it is not subject to any ambiguity or debate about its meaning. no one disputes this. it's article 73 of the congolese constitution which states in its entirety, i'm reading the entire article, the electoral. for the elect chin of the president is convened by the

electoral commission 90 days before the expiration of the mandate of the incumbent president. done. that's the entire article. the english translation is a bit awkward. we do it differently under our system but for those of us who are americans, let me briefly note that the congolese system is like that of many other countries in that there is a defined electoral. leading up to an actual vote. in that case it's for a presidential election. when and how long is described by article 73. therefore, the cd and i must convene or declare the beginning of the official electoral. leading up to the election no later than september 20. unsurprisingly that date was on the calendar that was published last february.

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congress leaders to violate human rights and undermine constitutional democracy.

let me talk about the african union they've designated a facilitator to try to bring the sides together and it has been a work for a long time, many months. congolese the ships are also consulting with politicians to see if there is sufficient common ground for dialogue to occur. the essential problem is agreeing on what is to be discussed and whether the discussion will occur in good faith. the opposition doubts the sincerity of the congolese government and of mr. côte joe. today some opposition leaders are talking with mr. tojo and the bishop while others refuse to consider a dialogue as long as tojo remains the moderator. they want to encourage the participation a major political actors.

to date the government has not done this and in the absence of any confidence voting measures, frankly it's difficult to imagine a successful dialogue. i will talk more about this at the end of my remarks. let me move to the congolese opposition in civil society. first i want to emphasize a really important.crucial that is often overlooked. the opposition, is entirely peaceful. all of its leaders have embraced the principles of nonviolence. how important is that? in a country that has been torn apart by multiple wars and rebellion over the last few decades, and it's still not completely at peace in parts of the eastern congo. we were reading about horrific killings around the eastern cities. the opposition's courageous stance of nonviolence must be

celebrated, cherished, nourished, encouraged and protected. unfortunately the congolese police and military have garnered a global reputation for brutality and violence. remarkably they respected the opposition's right of peaceful assembly last month and opposition leader returned. when he and other opposition leaders held enormous peaceful rally a few days after his return it wasn't an accident. u.s. sanctions against the police chief helped provide a very important incentive for greatly improved behavior when the police saw themselves in the international spotlight. make no mistake, the police and military remain armed and dangerous. the opposition has stated its intention to continue such protest if congo moves into a

period of unconstitutionality this fall. their right to peaceful assembly must be respected. in that regard, i also want to say, thank goodness for the united nations peacekeeping force with still has about 20000 armed men and women based around the country. they also played a key role in keeping the peace by deploying around the area to make it clear they were watching as these major rallies took place. they have two strategic priorities mandated by the united nations security council. the first is the protection of civilians, the second is to support the creation of an environment conducive to peaceful, credible and timely elections. they need to be prepared to ask during this upcoming dangerous. to protect civilians during the

growing crisis. as we said, his final term ends on december 19. in the absence of any constitutional solution, the opposition is called to public protest throughout the fall. if no solution has been found by december 19 the opposition is called for the president's departure departure from office, president kabila has already indicated his intentions to remain. how can this crisis be avoided? what's the way forward. i have a few suggestions. first, this is neither the time or the need for wide ranging discussion. the only issue for discussion among congress political leaders are these two. first, how to arrange for, and i'm quoting the relevant view, a free, fair, credible and timely electoral vote. second, if the process cannot be

completed by december 20, then what happens? i will not get into the debate of all the details about what could happen under the second scenario but i will make two points. first the congo's constitution has to be respected. therefore any any solution of what to do after the 19th needs to respect the constitution. second, if one does that that requires the holding of presidential elections if not in 2016 as early as possible in 2017. delay beyond that is impossible. that should be a given and not open for any discussion. congo is entering a period of maximum danger and it's crucial that a way forward be found that respects the constitution and avoids bloodshed. i really believe that with good faith and continued efforts by the congolese elite and the people of the congo, by governments like my own led by

people like. hello, by critical international organizations like the un, the european union and other concerned citizens and groups around the world finding a peaceful way forward, path of peace while difficult still remains possible. thank you. >> thank you tony, very powerful. [applause] now to you. >> thank you for having me and thanks for doing this event. it's particularly important time to be getting attention around the world to the situation in the rc where the clock is ticking. because i want to make sure there is time for the audience, i will probably just say a few remarks. my statements are out in the press all the time so people know where i come down on this. we would actually call august africa month because it was one of the few times you could actually break through with news

about africa in the international press. unfortunately we can't compete with beach volleyball. i have neither the talent or the ability to do so. let me just talk about a specific point about why the importance of the rcm where we stand. president obama did not pull this issue of term limits out of thin air. yes he's a constitutional law professor and believes in the importance of that as a fundamental break point but they also ran data on this and we showed that in countries where incumbents try to change the rules to stay in power, those countries are five times more likely to face violence and instability. those countries that have transitions are far more likely to see economic growth. the data is very clear on this. even in situations where there is broad consent about extending

an incumbents range in power, even in those situations the data suggests that this is crucial for both stability and investment. it's even more true in situations where there is not broad consent. i think it's fair to say, even under the most generous reading of the political situation there is not some ground of grassroot support for a change to the constitution or replacement. unfortunately we know not just through the data but also from next door where there was a popular president at the time of his decision to change the constitution was a controversial decision. even in that situation you saw the difference in ten years of progress. ten years of unbelievably courageous work by the people

across safe communities, private sector and the military to get beyond some of the divisions of the past. this this is not a randomly selected policy by the president. it also happens to be one of his most popular among the african people pulled across all countries though not as popular among african leaders, as you may guess. secondly i think it's important to look at this issue about alternates in the context of the democratic republic of congo. there's some discussion about what the u.s. has to play in imposing this. the benefit in this is that we are not. our policy is entirely determined by the amendment of term limits and the overwhelming popular support in every poll in every bit of research and analysis that the congolese people are very proud of their constitution and very excited to have an election and have the opportunity. it's not based on personal animosity against a leader but based on a belief that once a great product of president

kabila has been to establish a constitutional democracy and this is an opportunity to turn the corner. it's also important to note and i think he deserves credit for this, we have seen the diversity of civil society and in the media in the drc that is unrivaled within the region. it's a country where, to the credit of the government there has been real space for civil society and opposition parties and the media. unfortunately over the past year have seen significant closing of that space including intimidation and arrest of youth activist which tends to be a sign of desperation of a weak regime. i think this is unfortunate in raising the risk of unsuitability and undermining a proud. [inaudible] we've seen over and over again that the congolese people are ready for constitutional

democracy and they embrace it. we sometimes hear arguments from the government that make me believe we have more confidence in the congolese people than they do. we saw hundreds of thousands of people come out in the streets multiple times just in this month. if the police do not instigate, the congolese people are capable of rallying peacefully as has happened before. whether that's at the funeral of a prominent musician or the return of an opposition figure. we think about this assumption that if there are people exercising their constitutional right, it leads to instability, that's a passing of the box. the question is what is the spark that leads to instability. in the absence of the crackdown, the congolese the congolese people are incredibly mature in their approach to the democratic process which is a good thing. unfortunately, while there is much to be said about the positive success story we do see tensions rising, we have seen a prominent congolese leaders intimidated or run out of the

country or still sitting in prison, we also see rising concerns both in the country and among the neighbors about the introduction of inflation and concerns about budgetary finances in the government and the concern that even under the best of political stability and certainty, some of these are issues that could have real human impacts in a country where many people still remain extremely poor and also looking at the questions of regional stability. that leads me to where we stand right now. while i share most if not all of what tony outlined as the downside which are very real, if we do not find a negotiated solution in this case, i think these very disturbing scenarios which could involve violence, i think it's important to keep an eye on the positive story here. it is not past the point where drc could have its first

peaceful democratic transition in the history of the country. this is an incredible turning point for the drc. again, i think it is one where president kabila and his family would deserve her wrote credit and most of all the congolese people would deserve the opportunity to see what country after country has seen which is after a brutal civil war or regional war, seeing that first period of the turning point where you see real gains on stability, real gains on investment, real gains instability and all of these areas. we do need to be extremely concerned about the downside risk but i also want us to keep in mind the possibility of the rc as a successful story and talking about congolese exceptionalism. sometimes we look at the fact that other leaders in the region done this. think of it in a positive light. what if they continue to become

the model of a more democratic and open society, a model of a stronger constitutional democracy. we all know the natural capital in human capital is there for that opportunity. i think we want to be supportive of both the government and the congolese people in what could be an extremely exciting time. that having been said, i think the window for that happy story, the window for that positive step is narrowing and narrowing quickly. some deadlines have come and gone but the current one appears to be now until september 19 where at least some significant leaders in the opposition feel that is the beginning of the constitutional crisis. that means we are looking now at a six week period, a four or six week. depending on when you see this coming together of where tensions will calcify, sides will calcify and were already already seeing that in terms of confidence in both areas. there is an opportunity right now for everybody in this scenario to walk away a winner on how you define winning. to me if president kabila gets

to be one of the great heroes on the continent of seeing his country into a period of peace and constitutional democracy and while he still young enough to remain a power broker in the country and across the continent and could have a comeback in years to come, that to me is a great outcome for him and certainly for the country. the problem is, the closer this gets to being decided in the streets, those opportunities disappear. his options get worse, not better as this gets closer to a crisis. there is is a lot of needing to help people see those opportunities. the next few steps, and this is where tony and i sometimes disagree a little bit, these steps are going to be determined not by the u.s. and not by the international immunity but by the congolese people. we can affect things in the margin and try to incentivize and protect open political space, we can try to impact what

a hero's departure looks like but ultimately this is going to be a chapter written by the congolese people. we hope it's one that's written together. i think that's where i want to end. we always talk about the co-joe dialog and we fully support it and think it's incredibly important that everyone participate in it. the dialogue is the negotiation and the support team. i understand why all those details matter, but ultimately what matters most at this point is people making the act of statement ship and compromise that bring everyone to the table and allow for a negotiated solution. i do believe the power to do so right now rests overwhelmingly with the government. yes the opposition is a key player in this, but the conditions for dialogue are primarily being determined by the confidence building measures that the government chooses to take or not take. there was opportunity with discussion about political prisoners in pardoning, this was

probably the single best thing that could've happened for the dialogue. it is very difficult for people to feel like they are being invited to a dialogue while at the same time they are being intimidated and arrested. i think at this point when we think about this, yes it's true, many opposition leaders are holding out on dialogue and were pushing them to the stage but people are also in an environment where they're looking to see are we going into a genuine negotiation about how to move a country forward according to the constitution and the security council or are we walking into a trap? there is a trust gap right now and both sides have legitimate reasons to see the other side as the bad guy, the reason that there is no trust. there's only so much we can do from the outside. i think there are actions that leaders can take right now to create genuine space between now and september 19. after that time, i think the

option and ability to control things declined significantly public. i still think this is an opportunity for this to be a great chapter for drc and for drc to really be the model, even for the whole region and see a lot of benefits in the wake of that, but the good scenarios get less likely as we get closer to these deadlines and the bad scenarios get more likely. we see this next month as a crucial. including the international community. >> thank you. i have two clarifying questions and then we'll go to the investor. i think i heard you say that for kabila to step down he could have the come back. is the constitution about two terms lifetime or consecutive? where's the limit? >> it's consecutive. so he could in theory step down and run again. then the other question is the state of sanctions today and maybe just a quick word from each of you, exactly where does this stand? is the u.s. executive branch invoking authorities that have been there a while or is this due to recent congressional action.

question what. >> we've had an executive authority for a few years now that includes both threats of violence, instability and gross human rights. the recent sanction of the police chief, separately in capitol hill they have been engaged in the debate over sanctions calling a bipartisan way for stronger consequences in some of these areas related to these issues. i think that's again, our equal branches will continue to be involved there. ultimately we know the hill controls the power of the purse, those of us in the house of representatives, i'd like to remind everyone it starts there, my friend doesn't always like being reminded of that. yes, the hill ultimately come look at budget authorities if there are existing authorities under an executive order to

pursue individual consequence. >> in my last clarifying point, earlier i said said congo is the third most populous country. technically it would be the fourth if you count egypt but it's the third most in sub-saharan africa. thank you, over to you. >> thank you. >> so what we have to clarify today is how the electoral process works in the drc and i would like to give some clarification on the situation.

[speaking in foreign language] >> after the presentations i would like to say -- clarification [speaking in foreign language] >> i would like to give some clarification from the five following points. >> who has the organizational power for the drc why do we have the delay in the electoral process. [speaking in foreign language] >> what is the solidity of the inclusive national dialogue? [speaking in foreign language] >> the interpretation of article

17, second paragraph of the constitution. [speaking in foreign language] >> after i'm going to talk about the rational war and the troubles after december 2016. [speaking in foreign language] >> the article 211 of the constitution, the organization of the election of the drc will extend the competence of the national commission of the individual electorate.

[speaking in foreign language] >> the national commission of the independent electorate has some obstacles to face. the first one is a technical one we have two elections, the one in 2006 and the one in 2011. [speaking in foreign language] >> in 2006 we had held the elections from external partners. [speaking in foreign language]

>> actually the elections were seen to be held in 2005 but we actually postpone them and they were held in 2006. [speaking in foreign language] >> technically the national commission of the independent electorate had the elections in 2011. [speaking in foreign language] and actually everybody was against it and contested it to hold elections in 2011.

>> that's why we decided to reorganize the election process and have a credible process. [speaking in foreign language] >> the second issue, we have 42 million people to register to vote and we have 10 million new young people to register. [speaking in foreign language] and now the new law is that the

congolese people that live in foreign countries have the right to vote so the question now is why didn't we process that already in 2011 elections were held at the end of 2011 in december 2011. [speaking in foreign language] it went into 2000. [speaking in foreign language] and things were functioning fine and the funds for the future election were set apart in 2013

and 2014 we were facing a war. before the situation. [speaking in foreign language] >> it was a difficult situation to prepare the election to organize the funds we need money. [speaking in foreign language] and they were effective. in the year 2015 and 2016 we had

a very difficult economy. [speaking in foreign language] we were completely depending on everything that we were exporting and we saw a decline in prices of raw materials especially copper and petroleum. [speaking in foreign language] our budget had to be had to be down. [speaking in foreign language] i

would like to explain again that we had time to prepare the elections of 2011 in the same situation is happening in 2016. [speaking in foreign language] also we have to look at the opposition in terms of the calendar that we were proposing and other questions. [speaking in foreign language] everybody now talks about the month of december, the month that president kabila should leave office actually the end of

his term will be in that period at the end of december everybody that's talking about the end of this term for president kabila is not talking about what should happen next. they don't give any solution that should happen "after words" [speaking in foreign language] president kabila is proposing we have a dialogue about what should happen next. [speaking in foreign language]

so it can prepare the way and go through the electoral process in a peaceful way and after the elected president will take function and start his new term so the big question is what will happen after the end of december there are two options possible today. [speaking in foreign language] we could have a solution that we would prolong his term he is not

looking for a new term, it is is prolonging of his existing term after december. [speaking in native tongue] this is also confirmed in the constitution that the president will continue with his existing term. only until they elect a new president. [speaking in native tongue] the second solution can be found together with opposition and also external partners.

[speaking in native tongue] to use this process and that would eventually push kabila out. [speaking in native tongue] nobody could foresee what a chaos this would create. [speaking in native tongue] we

have to make sure if we look at the public, the democratic republic of the congo to stay a stable country and we should make sure that we look for stability and peaceful process. [speaking in native tongue] so we should in the right and dangerous situation stable the situation.

[speaking in native tongue] and make sure that things don't go out of control in this important central region of africa. [speaking in native tongue] we should avoid and we should not create a second to be a in africa. [speaking in native tongue] i would like to thank you all. [applause] >> thank you very much mr. master. what i would like to do is ask you to start getting ready with your questions. we will have a microphone. once i call on you please identify yourself and limit yourself to one question. if you want to pose it for a specific person that is preferred but not obligated. first i want to turn it to tony to see if he wants to make a

specific response to the ambassador. >> okay, thank you very much but i want want to thank the investor. i think it is important that brookings invited a representative of the government to present the views on how to move forward. i just have a few things because i do want to get to the broader questions. at first, i don't know anyone, no government, no international organization, no congolese actor b he or she in the opposition or the government, no civil society member in the congolese american or european who looks for the implosion of the congo. everyone wants to avoid this and find a way out. that is why i emphasized the peaceful nature of the opposition that we do not have, thank goodness, a situation where there are armed rebellions. let's remember, just 20 years ago we had multiple armed groups

fighting. we do not have this today. that is a great gift that has come from actions by resident kabila and others during this period to create the opportunity now. the second point i would like to make is as i tried to suggest, the constitution has multiple arguments and frankly one does not need to be a constitutional scholar to see how it's clear. the ambassador focused on one issue, article 70 and it subject to multiple interpretations but he gave the one that the constitutional court provided and that the government holds two. but then there's the other article that the opposition talks about and that i stated which is article 73.

that's another article of the constitution, every bit as valid as article 70. seventy. article 73 creates a clear on amendable obligation to the electoral commission to declare the process of the election of the president open 90 days before the exploration of the incumbent president's term. that's that's an article of the constitution that has no other clause that says it can be amended or you need to be ready or maybe if you don't like it you can do otherwise. no. it says it in black and white very clearly what needs to be done. :

as a special envoy said that's not what the united states is attempting to do in any way this time around. but it's for the crucial congolese actors to come together now and have a series discussion and compromise because compromises will have to be made on how to move forward. i will end by stating it is my view, i'll echo what the special envoy said, that if congress could be created, what's lacking right now is confidence. there's a lot of mistrust around and there have been opportunities where people have been looking for the government to take steps to show that they were ready for these kinds of difficult discussions. we have not seen those series confidence-building measures yet.

i will state again as i did in my, what i believe we all believe come it's not too late. it's very late. you think of the clock ticking towards midnight, we are well past 11 p.m. i think we are past 11:30 p.m. we are maybe at 10 minutes before midnight of the clock has not struck midnight yet. >> thank you for the comments. i think there is as you can see plenty of room to find a reasonable solution and consensus path forward. but if a small fire that started in the basement of your house and everyone spends their energy focus on who started the fire instead of how to put the fire out, that fire is going to go and it's going to get bigger. right now both sides are focused a bit on establishing who started the fire instead of how to put out. the solution to putting out seems very clear to their statements terms of it could make that would defuse tension and great more space.

there are actions we take today that would create more space virginia dialogue. i think if this goes in a bad direction which we hope it does not, people will look back at this period and action that each site took in so many missed opportunities by the government to build confidence and assessing the. the focus shouldn't be on the point about the fire but how to get the fire out and make the house stronger. >> thank you. i'm going to take two questions at a time. we will start in the third row, the gentlemen, and then a woman in the second row. take those two together. >> still not working i don't think. do you have a different microphone? >> i work with the african

immigrant caucus, and i'm taking the opportunity to look, instead of the congo and how it moved forward, which is very important, to look at the strategy of u.s. policy in africa. a couple of compton disco the president talked and he was asked about how the u.s. chooses to improve sanctions on some countries for their bad behavior and on others. and he said when we have security issues, security cooperation with friends, yeah, we cooperate with them, we don't ostracize them but we talk to them. i think the problem with that is that then it sets a bad example. to bring it to the congo, my personal view is if i were president kabila come on looking at the other presidents and saying, they have done worse things. they have stayed longer. the u.s. as not pushing them out

so why should i listen to you? that's just me, but tell me why i am wrong. >> i'm the president of the way that ambassadors foundation. -- women's ambassador foundation. my comment, congo was the victim of king leopold back in come after the berlin conference. king leopold took congo as his personal property and decimated millions of king leopold of belgium, decimated millions of congolese people. a century later we had a promising leader. he was killed by the west.

why should congo today take advice from the west? >> turned it into a question. that was pretty good. why don't we start with tony and just work down. >> i will say something about the second question. i certainly, in what i was discussing today, was focused very much on the views and aspirations of people with him on a contact who are congolese, and trying to understand and speak to what people in the congo are looking for now. this is a very different situation than the circumstance of the late 19th or early 20th century when the horse under leopold were perpetrated as you suggested or the very end

of the clone appeared in 1960s, the beginnings of the postcolonial congo. and i think it's quite important to constantly underscore that some of us here are trying very hard actually, i'll speak i think a little more broadly for the people i work with in american civil society. we try very hard to stay in close contact with numbers of congolese civil society, and to understand how they see the situation, what they would like to do, and to share and exchange. i consider it a very healthy and useful exchange. and it is not one, and i'm very happy about this, where it is the united states or europe or anywhere else who is attempting with a fist to make changes as a

yes, was the case in the past. rather, i and others want to learn from and transmit the views of the extremely courageous, articulate and committed people in the congo, whether it's the youth that special envoy terry yellow referred to, working with organizations or many others, the larger society or decisions represent in, or the provinces throughout the country active civil society gatherings that are going on now as well as the extremely vibrant set of senior political actors and political parties that are all pushing for the kinds of things that worry are under discussion today. so the situation that prevails in 2016 globally is quite different than the ones you

refer to in the past. and thank goodness that's the movement, good direction. >> this is something that could be it's own to our discussion to i think the question is what our police lessons to learn from the past. i think one of the lessons is come could be not engagement at all or could be that we should stay with the aspiration of the people, not with corrupt elites. and i think we will look at congo there's a clear aspirations of people and the united states post have been accounted for by the congolese people. that doesn't always mean that everyone in the league is going to be in touch with that. i also think the issue of not engagement in the global world is complicated. if you look with investment is coming from today of the major corporate and government intervention, it's not in the west to its from across africa, china, other places. if you look at the history of how the kabila family came into power, this questionable you go back and talk about something that is essentially congolese

independent of outside or exogenous forces, as you know very well get six in the complicated very quickly. part of what we try to learn from this is that in the past when we've stood against the aspirations of people, we regretted it looking back. and where we've stood with people the people of the country, we have been on solid ground. i think there's no question in this case the congolese people like the constitution. they went respected. and want an election. the only thing standing in the way is leaders in their own government. i think what the question of sanction, we try to get smart about this as well. i think there's more controversy about where you sanctions and our government or programs that are seen as supporting the people versus trying to be more surgical about targeting particular actors who are upgrading instability or limiting the rights of their own citizens. in terms of the u.s. engagement,

there's a lot in our history to answer for, and those all legitimate questions to be raised but i think in this case it could not be more clever than in partnership with the congolese people. when we did that in the past it has something would look back on positively. >> mr. ambassador, any comments? >> yes. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: i would like to say that president kabila has organized the first elections in the country. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: and he also organized the second elections in 2011. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: he could have changed the constitution in those years if he wanted to, like a lot of other presidents.

[speaking in native tongue] >> translator: there were an important people in his government that have asked in 2009 to change the constitution, but he said no. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: rwanda has changed the constitution. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: our direct neighbor has done this process, and it changed the constitution. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: like a lot of times this has happened, we could have done it as well.

[speaking in native tongue] >> translator: but our president has said no. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: i want to have a democratic culture in this country. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: so what i'm asking for to have these elections now -- [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: we need a time to pass kindly to the next election. he will not claim a second term, nor will he stay in office. >> third term. >> third term, sorry. >> let's take two more questions. then i will try to work back a following round.

>> i'm president of herrington dorsey. i understand how you sanction the country, but what i don't understand is how you sanction an individual. >> there's a good question. then in the third row. blue shirt. >> i have two questions. want is for mr. ambassador and the other one is for thomas perriello. >> keep them short place because the rule is one question. question. >> i will try to combine. mr. ambassador, the question i'm asking pretty much is about the organization of the elections. you mentioned one of the reasons was lack of funds because the funds were displaced for the war some time ago. with the government of mr. kabila accept money to

organize the elections from friends like the united states and other european countries? to mr. perriello, my question is basically to clarify what you meant by negotiated solution to the crisis in the congo. >> this is great. we have one question for the panel is. tony, you want to take the first? >> so first of the sexes question i think it's important to note you sanctions only apply to things inside that tiny. we cannot affect what happens inside the drc. this on assets inside the united states or travel to united states. as a sovereign country where rights to make decision about an individual extent that they're touching you its related activities. we do not have the ability to go in and affect the vis-à-vis the drc dynamics. in the global banking environment, some of those things you have the on effects. but governments have the right to do that and travel bans and other activities and focus on individuals. i think the feeling over recent

years when you sanction at our government, there are at least some folks if you like that can end up affecting the people who have not necessarily done the bad acts that are creating the negative effects. you are welcome to disagree but that's the legal basis. i think on the issue of, i wanted to add one of the, actually to the earlier thing which i think is important to reiterate. that is different perhaps been out something that happened in the past which is that the united states does not take a position on any party or any candidate in this case. i think in the past we have in some cases tried to hand pick or played a chess game out. i think that our country for good reason that a skeptical that we really mean that when we say it, but we really do. i couldn't care less whether majority wins by the opposition wins this election. the u.s. position is that election should happen and the congolese people should determine the future. .edu and around the world shares

that approach but it is our believe what's important is the process and that it's the will of the congolese people. we've made that clear to the opposition over and over again. and we have made that clear to the government as well. i frankly think that are competently of both the majority and the opposition, the we could imagine in a variety of positions. on the pressure solution, i am being intentionally vague because we think our answer of what it should look like is whatever works. whatever gets a broad enough consensus about how to address was a fairly limited number of issues right now and a fairly limited timeframe goes forward. the big game intent is the dialogue it seems the best way to proceed is to figure out how to take that formulation and figure out whatever tweets need to be made to bring all the sides to the table. but we don't go into it with a preconceived notion that there's a particular format et cetera. we know there are limited numbers of issues. is basically come down to us in

the elections can be held, statement of non-candidacy with the can looks like between december 19 and the initial whether anyone is going to be allowed to the district free of intimidation. we can come up with our list but it's not a huge number of things. i think, we don't want to get stuck on the worst dialogue or negotiation. i think i believe is the should be what works and it should be what the key congolese stakeholders accept as legitimate and that's not for us to determine. what we can say is the current solution isn't there yet. clearly we don't have all of the key actors at the table in a way to reach a consensus to head off this problem. when we say how we look at conference building measures from the government, how could push the opposition to be more open to this dialogue, i think the ultimate bottom line is what works, what brings people to the table that can find a path on this limited set of issues.

>> mr. ambassador? >> yes. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: i would like to confirm that in 2006 we had received external fund for the elections. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: in 2011, congo had finance themselves the election. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: so now we've asked for extra help, looking at the funds issues that we have to. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: we already have

liberated funds of $330 million to start register the voters. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: and we also wait for the part of our external partners. >> very good. let's take another round. we will go over to the side. we will take three this time. the gentleman in the second row agenda to sitting next to each other in the fourth row. this may wind up being the final round so they get the lighting around one question each, please. >> thanks for the opportunity. i am a native of washington, d.c. question, mr. ambassador. things for the clarity. it sounds like when before you try to explain what mr. kabila was trying to do, transition without holding onto power. can you name a few names of the opposition candidates that are not given a fair share and the reason what all this is coming

up, mr. kabila wants to change the constitution? can you give us a few names? the last i had, the biggest front runner against mr. kabila. is thais not true as of right n? thank you. >> been the two in the fourth row. >> bureau of african affairs. i'm interested in coming to speak about the u.s. government should think about it saturday sector reform program and go forward in light of the political uncertainties in the environment, specifically with regards to chick's and priorities for security assistance. >> thanks. >> my question is to the ambassador. it is of course a political crisis but also the economic crisis with commodity prices lowered and increased inflation,

which could exacerbate the political crisis. so i'm curious what the government strategy is to try to address this economic crisis. thank you. >> why don't we start with ambassador this time. take whichever question you want. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: what i would like to say about the president's that would be elected, i already have registered seven possible candidates here in the embassy. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: in congo we have even like 20 candidates registered.

[speaking in native tongue] >> translator: you have to know that we have more than 400 political parties in congo. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: so you will notice that this is a very difficult, to name some candidates, being a big number of possible candidates. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: to talk about the economic crisis. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: the congo doesn't establish that commodity prices. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: like all the other underdeveloped countries. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: the prices are fixed regarding the needs. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: like to control

the crisis. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: we like to diversify our economy. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: to not be too dependent on the materials that we export. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: steps for the government is trying to do to control the crisis that comes from the outside. >> special envoy? >> let me concur that much of the economic crisis that's coming into the government faltered was a lot of exogenous factors like commodity prices. nonetheless, it does introduce another region -- reason to be concerned about stability of the role the street i put in coming months. regardless of what caused that issue, it is certain something we are talking very closely both for human implications for those who are living on the margins

but also the broader security and political implications. second on opposition leaders, as i said before, my job is a lot easier because we're not taking sides. so i don't have to get into all of the politics. as a former politician myself i will just say i'm serving it that i think it's quite fascinating. i think that people will focus on how many candidates there are, and people seeming to change sides, but that's not mr. assigned of unhealthy politics. it can be a sign of healthy politics, that people will form coalitions, they will break coalition. i'm sure some of it will not be for the most ideologically or financially pure reasons that nonetheless, what you're saying i think a lot of in the last year is genuine coalition politics and trying to distinguish those people who do have a constituency from those people who are just and individual running around wanting to be a candidate. as a political observer i would

just say it's really fascinating to see how dynamic that if ivan is, and that will only i think instance of that over the next year it gets not about producing the perfect candidates. it's fair to many americans are not content with our major party candidates here. i am not here to comment on that, but that's part about a political system works as much about the parties and the coalitions that come together. on saturday sector reform i think is something the u.s. government wants to continue and is continuing to process a top early. something president kabila has certainly emphasized a great deal. i think there are opportunities to the ongoing progress in the fdl or as well where we had some things stagnate for separate of time. i hope the remaining period for president kabila, he sees as a chance to slip on some of his legacy. i think as many 2.2. we mentioned earlier the fact that he really pushed to the sun city accords which is not what people expected of him at first.

he pushed for the constitution. he allowed elections to happen. beatrice gender-based violence within the military. saturday sector from something else that teaser rates as a priority. i think we want to focus on the political situation because it's the big elephant in the room but it goes parallel with many other things to what i will say about both security sector reform as the start housing about economic develop an and foreign direct investment is common extent to which people feel like they pass the period where you're in a post-conflict environment, which i think some people still see drc, or is this a stable constitutional democracy? i think the next year, however plays out, is going to determine the extent to which we get on a path in a direction towards greater investment and greater stability. as a country that spent a lot of

money supporting meniscal every year, no one would be more excited that us to see meniscal fadeout over the years ahead. because the capacity of this internally to do that because we have addressed negative forces in the east. i think these things have to run in parallel to each other but i think political uncertainty israeli the outlet of stability and israeli talent of the medium to long-term investment with its investment in a post alexi to be sector reform or the economy. so again we see this as still something that could be a great chapter or do you see what there is a turning of the page and if it is lots of room for his excellence and others to get a lot of credit for that. if this goes badly i think it will tarnish a lot of those positive steps that were taken and will end up being a defining moment in a different direction. >> just a little bit about the question regarding security sector reform. security sector reform in the

congo has been focused on for a long time a very mixed record. it's very difficult to do. what i would say about it now is this is not a time for mixed messages, and it's a time for focusing on priorities. so let's think about the 2006 election. the congolese and international community were ignited -- united in wanting to the elections a 2006 but there was a sense that the army could potentially play a negative role because that command-and-control buildings were not good, the ability to violence against civilians was unfortunately very high command decision was taken not to wrap up security sector reform but the army state in the barracks during the electoral period. and that the police be given the role working with the thin more nuke -- to ensure the peaceful

holding of elections, and it worked. the military state in the barracks and the elections of 2006 were remarkably peaceful throughout the congo. we have a similar challenge when election will take place this time. i am not advocating the same action be taken as in 2006, not at all. 10 years have passed. not that we think about what is appropriate to be done when what we want is to see as special envoy perriello has said again and again in his comments, therefore, the elections and won those elections to be free, fair, credible, transparent, et cetera. is a military with a record and a four-point much of that record is bad. to rather than think about long-term goals in saturday sector reform which are ultimately important.

the essential now is to say how can a military be part of the solution that is open political space for political expression, for peaceful demonstration, for the other things that are part of the democratic process whereby people can come together to look at the candidates can make the decision and ultimately on election day go and vote for the candidate of their choice. >> even though it may not be the moment for this kind of a bigger longer-term policy concept, i still like to argue that the united states military should consider offering up to a brigade of force. what i mean by that is depending on how you slice it, two to 3000 personnel, to build an excellent model that was created in afghanistan is on the called saturday force assistance brigade will we break out of traditional war fighting get it into a number of smaller advisory teams, get out in the

field wit with the military we e kind of improved. it helps you get to know the leaders seek and provide advice to the president of the country on who he might want to promote or not promote, and it also allows you to provide infield tactical support, more in the realm of ideas that in actual operations the if we're going to see the drc military get to the point for the u.n. can work itself out of a job i think the united states or some other western country like us may need to get more involved. the reason i say this is because they're such an analogy in washington to put this on the table. i want to say think we are good at this and i think we can find the forces that were drawn down so much in iraq and in afghanistan. it wouldn't be easy for the us military but i think it's feasible. however, i what i propose it be something we talk about right now with president kabila. to me it's more of an inducement to his successor president, if

the stars align a number of ways on that front. thank you all for coming out, and please join in thanking our panelists. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> wrote to the widest coverage continues as hillary clinton and vice president joe biden campaign in scranton, pennsylvania, today. c-span is planning live coverage starting at 1245 pm with phone calls afterwards. donald trump campaigns in youngstown, ohio.

also with your phone calls afterwards. >> the hill has more about his speech writing that it will propose an ideological test for immigrants to assess whether people looking to come into the country support american values. attest to admit people into the country should ask the candidates about issues including religious freedom, gender equality and gay rights, according to the ap. it would seek values such as tolerance and moralism and would include questionnaires, social media assessments and images with friends and family. trump in his speech will call on replacing nation-building with foreign policy realism. people also say the united states should not be issuing visas unless it's able to carry out adequate screenings. >> today, to a author and investigative journalist sally

denton talks about her book the profiteers which takes a critical look at the bechtel corporation one of the largest engineering and construction companies in the world. q. end date airs weekdays in august at 7 p.m. eastern time. tonight on booktv in prime time beginning at 8:30 p.m. >> all of this tonight on booktv in prime time on c-span2.

>> next, the government's role in environment and energy issues, specifically on -- >> good afternoon and welcome. i'm rachel bovard from the heritage foundation and george are at our 30s and in our cities about farms and free enterprise. we are releasing each section of the book separately but all of this comprises one big vision that we have a free market principles an and agriculture. defense we that are based on the vision and hard work of darren was in the back and he'll be available at the recession. is the research fellow in agriculture policy at the heritage foundation, and what is done is spent years studying how we can implement free market principles and what we are seeing today. is contact information will be at the afterwards so i encourage you to reach out to get questions about the concepts give her discussed today.

our last defense of focus on different sections of this larger vision to the first was uplifting the raiders were burden on agriculture. agriculture what of the most heavily regulated sectors in our economy from banking to environmental regulations to agriculture regulation come all those things come into play when we talk about agriculture. our second event focused on enhancing free trade and other benefits not only agriculture but the entire u.s. economy. this event will focus on biofuels particularly the renewable fuel standard and out into place with agriculture sector as well as our economy at large. leading t the coverage they will be the three gentlemen to my right. to the very right is nick loris, morganville energy and five at the policy at the heritage foundation and the primary author of the paper which we are going to base our discussion today. he's testified numerous times before congress, has been published and quoted in "the wall street journal" can do new kinds and has been on cnn, in the cbc and npr as well as good

old fox news. so thank you. next to in his marlo lewis who is a senior fellow at the competitive enterprise institute where works of energy and global warming issues. pso to see this career. -- marlo has a distinguished career. he is als also a visiting assist professor of political science at claremont mckenna college. then to the right is danielson instrument institute for energy research where he's a vp for political, political studies. as well as it works for energy and climate policy on the federal and state levels. he's been with the mercatus center, and as those on the committee on resources in the house. we have a very distinguished and educated panel. i'm excited to kick off our discussion. each of the panelists will give

some brief remarks. we will facilitate a discussion during and then opened it up to you guys so keep your questions ready and we will get to you in the end. >> thanks, rachel. first of all what is -- in 2005 congress and the bush administration had an idea, that was they look at the trend in oil production would you been falling since 1970 and they said hey, what if we keep on talking about the problems that it is to import oil, why don't we create more liquid fuels by using ethanol? to do that let's mandate a certain volume of ethanol that gets used every day. that was that in a nutshell is the rfs. it mandates a certain volume and it mandates ethanol. that was the first rfs in 2005 and energy policy act of 2005. two years later the energy independence as a good act, the rfs was amended and this time

instead of, there was a number of different mandates created but they also wanted to include some stuff that was advanced biofuels. this wasn't merely ethanol that is made from corn but the plot was, if we mandate it the stuff that's on commercially viable will be commercially viable and that we could then have billions of gallons of it. that was how the rfs was change, plus the numbers were bumped up by quite a lot. the problem is that any concerns about the economic costs were not really concerned other than congress and the bush administration kdpa some leeway in how the numbers were set -- gave epa. but as you imagine, one of the fatal flaws is for congress to assume that they know what the future is going to be for energy.

and they made essentially three fatal flaws, in my opinion, in terms of energy production, u.s. oil consumption. consumption, production, and then the viability of these various fuels. first of all is production. as i noted from our production looked like, all the smart people that use the production was in terminal decline. 10 years ago there was a lot of talk about how u.s. had hit peak oil, we were not going to be producing more oil in future. however, the federal government willing of even tried to really increase oil production. it should not have any surprise that given all of the additional regulations were put on a production that production continued to decrease, until about 2007-2008 when the very beginnings of the fracking revolution story. since that time of the production is up 86%, since oil production bottomed out in --

2007-2008. 86%. since 2010 alone or in production on private and state lines has increased 113%. what happened? was at the rfs that created these changes? was it mandates? now. hydraulic fracturing revolution using oil from shale that completely changed the calculus. so the u.s., or oil production is booming, not because of government program can not because it mandates but because of the free market. when they were high oil prices people said hey, all these investments make sense. that was the first thing. the creators of the rfs did not consider that we could turn around oil production in this country. the second one is consumption. oil consumption seemed to be continually growing, and it turns out the u.s. oil consumption peaked in 2005 after the act was passed.

this matters because the rfs does not mandate a percentage of biofuels be used. it mandates a certain volume, and the problem is that engines can only use generally, car engines i should specify, new car engines can only use, most cars can only use ethanol and concentrations of about 10%. the automakers only certify that cars can use that persons of ethanol and they will not certify that you use gasoline with ethanol like safeway% because it might harm the engine. so there's only so much ethanol that you can use in the fuel supply any given year. however, the rfs didn't even consider that and it turns out because he is consumption peaked in about 2005, has fallen since then and the last four years has been gradually increasing as we've come out of the recession. they screwed up on the production site. they screwed up on the

consumption side. and lastly was this thought that if you subsidize it, if you mandate it it will come. it will be cost effective. well, the problem with ethanol is ethanol is not new. it's also not new when used as a fuel. 150 years ago some of the first cars ran on ethanol. the reason is simple. everybody knows how to make ethanol. people have been making ethanol for literally thousands of years. ethanol is doubtful i'll call. it's the stuff we drink. -- hafle alcohol. just using it for this new purpose, you ca could do it, you could do it like increase the volume spent doing that can reduce the cost but the point is we been making it for a long time. is because you of the semantic is going to make the costs of theanold sense in the world. and then it's on to the mandate like certain volume of ethanol, but then this exotic fuel,

things like -- casanova is a made for my corn which we can do very efficiently but things like me from the rest of the corn plant, from corn stalks and things like that. that is much more expensive. and it turns out that the congress, in their infinite wisdom, in the bush administration, because this was a bipartisan fiasco the issue they mandated that we use for .25 billion gallons of cellulosic apple. so far, look at the numbers, we produced 2 million gallons of cellulosic ethanol. the mandate is four and a quarter billion gallons. we have made 2 million. this is like, i do know what kind world we live in where is a mandated market, even with them mandated market the producers can't make enough which tells you that this stuff is way more

expensive than we were ever led to believe by the bush administration and by congress. the assumptions that the rfs is based upon are fatally flawed, and it just lead you to a very what i think is a very simple conclusion about the rfs. scrap it out with the american people forget what fuels work best for them. >> thank you. >> thank you, rachel and dick for having me here today. dan's word have the fearful ring of truth. just one little tidbit on transit to get a look at the actual liquid ethanol fuel, which is being produced today, not all the filler qualifies as a propaganda using something called biogas and calling ethanol. if you look at the actual liquid fuel, the amount produced is less than one-tenth of 1% of what the mandate would require. so it showed definitely someone

to reach exceeded his grasp by light years. one of the things that you often hear from people who support the renewable fuel standard program is that we need is for fuel competition. you buy a car to the edge of a choice between one that runs on gasoline at another that runs on gasoline. ego to a service station and give a choice between a pump that dispenses gasoline at another pump that dispenses gasoline. this is a very cute, rhetorical formulation but it is fundamentally confuses two things. it confuses the results of competition with the absence of competition. it is assumed that because we are not being served ethanol and that we haven't been served while fuels in large quantities for a number of years, that somebody is suppressing the competition. as dan pointed out ethanol is a motor fuel which is actually

third fueled abuse in henry ford's first vehicles, something called the quadra cycle which could want anything from your ethanol all the way to the zero, gasoline with no ethanol content. henry ford and also thomas alva edison, another great figure in the history of internationalization and mass production, they were both high on ethanol for a number of years in the arctic 20th century. they predicted that it would be the fuel of the future. and in hindsight it's obvious why we don't have a huge biofuels market or why it would not come our why no significant biofuels market nationwide would exist but for these mandates and a host of other subsidies, some of which continue but some of which have been rescinded, like the ethanol blenders tax credit.

it's simply that for most of this period, right up until the mid-2000s, by volume ethanol was more expensive than gasoline. you can look this up if you go to the web and search rack prices. ethanol right prices, state of nebraska. they will show you the price by gallon of ethanol on the given gasoline. going back decades. you see it's only in recent decades that ethanol by volume is cheaper than gasoline. but when you then factor in the energy penalty, the fact that ethanol delivers one-third less energy by volume than gasoline, it's still not a very good by. in fact, it is a bad by. there's a wonderful website that the u.s. government maintains

that scott fuel economy.gov, and i encourage everybody to visit it. it's a little tricky to find this information. i don't think every proud of it so that make you jump through some hoops, but you go to this website, fuel economy.gov, click on advanced cars and fuels, and then click on flexible fuel vehicles. and then click on select flexible fuel vehicles. you'll actually see a milage adjusted price comparison, and the price comparison between the 85 and regular gasoline. these comparisons fluctuate by the week, sometimes by the month depend on the relative price of ethanol and gasoline. how clever the bottom line is always the same. if you fill up your flexible fuel vehicle with ethanol, you have to spend more money and fill up more often to drive the same distance. right now depending on the

vehicle, the size of the vehicle, you would spend an extra 200-$350 a year to drive on e-85. that's motor fuel blend with up to 85% of the law. in recent months it's been muchh higher. i seen it as high as $650 at the top and it sometimes over $1000. and so that is the main reason why only about 8% of all vehicles that are sold today come our vehicles that are on the road today, excuse me, are flexible fuel vehicles. and it's also the reason why only about 2% of service stations will supply e-85, okay, and why there are only 312 service stations nationwide out of about 150,000 that serve e-15 which is blended with more ethanol than the current

standard blend. the reason again is that it imposes a filter economy penalty on motorists. so it's not a good by in most markets. there are some cases in some markets like some places in minnesota, iowa, the service stations will provide steep discounts, and it will actually make sense. but nationwide, now. -- now. ..

ice caps melting by certain year or running out of oil or when ethanol will become commercially valuable index amount of quantity. there's little repercussion repercussion when they are wrong. in the meantime, they get to make all these plans and proposed solutions to alleged problems that use your money and my money as taxpayers that really don't solve any problem whatsoever but it will benefit their district and help them get reelected come election time point these politicians, time and time again like to think they can outsmart the market. they don't like to adjust their political hat but they like to wear their shark tank cat where they think their investors, only they're using the tax payers