defenseman i know how much defense benefit that applies that to everyday experience so it gives greater enjoyment and fulfillment and transparency. we have to continue in research and development. that is mine. i find is conversation fascinating as recently reading a wall street

journal article but it had a map of the state of california and and all of the locations. and then the location of automotive facilities in favor all along the same track moving from that midwest and from the south. but the lot of activity in the silicon valley area. allot of automotive in that area. >> this is the big change. >> guest: one of the things that killed kodak that it stayed in rochester new york it was great

technology bad bill all the work was digital's ober now they are in the mobility business. in that is a big part of the future dependent on wireless networks so you want to be where the innovators are. is a big change and people who live and work differently i hope we can

get that national will to have that conversation. >> faq very much t14

>> >> will come to the l.a. times festival of books everything connects the building blocks of family not - - family life also a host the nation's weekly

pied cast you have been here before you know the rules no personal recordings you can watch us on c-span when this is over we will have time for questions that the end with a book signing afterwards berger to authors are prolific professionals right t14 books brian has written bore than 40 so let's start with jonathan this is his first book bobby [applause] he has written for an outside the washington post, "new york times" and

has worked best they forklift driver, a summer camp director, sticker salesman, climbing instructor and a cook.s rust the longest war nominated for the book prize in science please welcome jonathan. [applause] by opening question is what is a bigger threat to the united states military? basis or rust? barre is a guy in the pentagon who would like you to perot that question at him he is fighting a very good fight back for about 10 years i did write bad debt

was greater than all other natural disasters combined. people have asked me pink about it this way our most abundant element attacks our most important material all the time everywhere. we belong dash isis is not that. spirit there is a shipyardti in bath of rusting vessels be?

bennett i fink they are slowly getting rid of it to. >> a nice way to put that. >> if you need rusty ships that is where you go they are polluting the base of seven cisco -- san francisco causing a problem for california but we kept them because we had to but it is the lead political scenario in have been all the time. >> 180 billion aluminum cans manufactured every year?ery year b. >> and each one has to be a perfect what happens if it is not quite. >> i went to achaean school of love i asked to many

questions because what they do to keep it from rusting makes be some people in the industry uncomfortable because of endocrine and one resembled blood dash to structures but it is heard as the time bomb that rust from the bottom up and inside out and top down but i can probably is made with more tolerance than anything on a spaceship so every time i grabbed a key and nobody realizes how amazing that t6exp, bid if they do did they explode the tab can get you in the eye has severed people's attendance then you have lawsuits it is ugly.

and i refer to that is aro corrosion miracle every year a number of companies bears more in energy drinks but if you do in this seldon in a can you go to the can, manufacturers asa send it to see how corrosive bitterness if it is they will say it is battery acid change the formula we cannot put it in the t6 that is one of us seven times with all energy drinks. >> tell me more about t6 schools in ashley big industry we are beveridge consumers pepsi coca-cola anheuser-busch be people want to put their stuff in a

can. so used to run by people now thme.eyon [laughter] to beverage and food cans school i told them who live was thesaid you could not not, but then they'd been sent to be any mail to sayha welcome this is what to wear lunches' included so i went. they are familiarizing people in the beverage industry what magic it goes silent panned why they spend one dime per canyon t6. so i did not get the diplomafron they were not happy with me but on the day my book came

out the chief corrosion guys showed up by gotten any mail that awarded me that diplomadipm [applause] can you explain anything e about the rest fighters as a group? lafayette. >> broadly engineers have the wisdom that some things. are not worth fighting and making facial hair is one of them but clearly i think it is a great position to take shaving every day is weird i have a lot of comments on

amazon to say you have a mustache obsession maybe i do but two-thirds of male engineers have mustache -- mustaches been talk to people bluestem promotion engineering is 98 percent male that is the fact. >> now we move on.gh [laughter] edward is a pulitzerie prize-winning journalist author of 14 books including our dirty love affair with trash beecher couple years ago. he has appeared in the wall street journal the new york times and others recipient of the pen award his book called door-to-door the magnificent world ofin transportation official date

is two days from now is brand new founder of 350. [applause] >> open with a memorable day in 2011 comedy remember this day when they closed the four '05 53 hours the first time since it opened in 1960 to the prediction was total disaster stay in your homes do not go out what happened? >> if did stop us over 53

hours but the great ironies to close all of those lanes improve traffic and pollution through southern california it was a great success but after it opened opened, the field of dreams phenomenon then more cars have come and one-year ban after that extra lane opened it to several minutes long beard to make that commutehe than before belonged or commute and 1.3 billion so there is a myth that it will get better for does put more money into more lanes over more cars has never worked but yet we are trapped in the ribbon cutting love of building new liens and infrastructure what i was

trying to talk about there are cheaper ways to do what that did to change people's behavior and i thought. carmageddon shows how you could make it better about building more stuff. >> i say order everything from amazon been ups brings it to my house and drives around every day anyway so that is a solution greg. >> and seems this is soal convenient we had a diabetic cat not a nice cat we have to buy special cat food the best places amazon but it arrived within nine hours. this same day delivery world it is terrible for traffic

will kill us because the head of ups in los angeles on any given day they are moving to million packages around lhasa angeles they used to take those by the truckload to the store the average man has 120 packages now echoes 120 different places the orders ofe magnitude means more trips to move the same amount ofof goods i would say he tore his hair out he is mad and by the simultaneous desireto hae be too cute have that convenience and yet the absolute hatred to have more trucks on the road delivering stuff with the battles against knobs extending the 710 freeway in

completing after four years of not connecting me. we wanted all but we don't want to pay for it to we face another carmageddon baird as they go toward this digital economy. >> use suggesting it should not order so much stuff of buck. >> that was my last book but we do accumulate so muchom far f from afar off and that door-to-door idea came out of looking at my own habits and families in my home one day of what it takes to keep us moving with the socks and shoes and what comes from the port 34 deeper cent comes up that road we don't want to finish out of the port. and dwight it takes it is horrifying if you see how

much we invest everyday. >> you have some statistics which i question produce a the morning cup of coffee. >> allot of that coffee is a bland so what i was picking apart was the starbucks french roast with three-year for different types of beans but if you look at africana y and south american sources but germany is number 67 largest exporter of coffee to the united states they

don't grow the beans but they go through their. we're just talking the beansan u then if you talk about but up cup of coffee on your commute it is the transportation of the water the milk the sugar the packaging the coffee maker in self-defense but thegh footprint is larger. >> i did not count the cup of milk or the sugar or the machinery. >> so you have me on coffee but what about the smart phone? you say you say 165,000 miles? the circumferences only 25,000 how could the smart phone take 165,000. >> the i felt was my model

but if you go to the ontario airport look on the tarmac everyday there are pallets of plain boxes under 24 hour guard with constantta surveillance they will not tell you what is in it but it is the eye fell on an everyday they come out of china stop in alaska to and el then, into ontario. then they come out to the rest of us.g is if you the few follow the assemblytl just of the little home button assembled in china

then shipped out with the transportation footprint than the raw materials, rare earth elements like cannot pronounce those have to be sourced from all over the world up precious metals it is almost all the possible to trace the raw materials but apple is better than most to make it public is astonishing i have a toyota the 30,000 parts went to them moon and back before the atomic ahead to 1 mile because everything is global

monday by percent of shoes come through the port of los angeles from foreign comte countries everyday stuff not just exotic has a tremendous footprint but. >> you had some horrifying with statistics on the supertankers. >> offbeat they are gleamingng d and huge when you get close by road out with a pilot uses c doesn't look that big your 2 miles away. [laughter] then the one i went was a car carrier they rolled in on and off it is a floating parking garage bigger import to come here. fin numbers i have is 160 of those ships on the open seas emit the particular and smog

causing emissions equivalent to all cars in the world it is staggering and then 4% of goal the mission as well as with anyone time 100 of the ships are docked in the port or waiting to.com 100 and together they have greater emissions that all cars in the country it ise astonishing but it takes to move our goods. >> do we feel bad yet? >> i got to ride in the google carpet -- car. a program descartes to driveuntv beware the campus is we drive along is amazing burst of all the slowest car on the road the only car in sight the speed limits are you get we are ended all the time but i n chatting with

the operators who are not doing anything just monitoring with a laptope vision then they slam on the breaks he almost drops low laptop walking across the street was a global employee bob you think engineers are bad a full-size laptop on his on like this and was typing as he was crossing the street and came out from between two parked cars and if that was me driving it would've been a flying lap top and a flying bird and it stopped on a dime. he looked up and crossed the street be but i am convinced speed would eliminate 90 percent of car crashes if

that was the major motive individual transportation and was impressive. >> brian born in england trade and archaeology and anthropology in cambridge. . .

most important of his books are the ones of historical climate change including the book the great warming which was a "new york times" bestseller. the book was featured here at the book festival a couple of years ago. the widely praised book in central california his new book is about how animal shaped humas history. it's called the intimate bond and in this book he writes about dogs, goats, sheep, donkeys, pigs, cattle, camels and horses. but in real life he lives with cats, fish, turtles and rabbit.

he says sometimes he has had as many as 24. please welcome back to the festival of books brian. [applause]it the most frightening conveyance he totaled 130 feet long in the an channel. he looked up and said, excuse my french, stupid bastards. there's nothing i can do. anyway, the conveyances and wife were the most interesting of them into the most neglected is the donkey.

the donkey is a very cool animal that had a number of advantages. it is easily trained and it keeps up a very steady pace and it can be used in deserts. i have to extraordinary experiences doing this. first they have traced an ancient trail from the nile to the oasis in the middle of the sahara 200 miles. it was used for centuries and they would take these and a third of them carried far and after. water and a third. the product that was semi-precious stones. they not only found the track but the cases of the jars and

the skeletons of the donkeys and they found the camps all on the desert preserved. they were the pickup trucks of the ancient world.much mor then the other one was much more obscure. there was a very well known trade between northern iraq and the town in central turkey and they found the archives with cuneiform writing. is there anyone here and i can decipher, don't be shy. i got in with a charming gentle man in holland. we argue and coral and drink.

he gave me all this information and we can even reconstruct ther correspondence. they were the same as those fa fans. but they linked the ancientnitil world. more so initially than the camel. >> new york is a history book. where do you dat date the domestication of the donkey, where does it "-begin-quotesw >> a lot of it is just beginning. it was in northeast africa out of the wild african donkey butt

by 4100 bc in the association in egypt and they have considerable but when they looked, they found they had been overloaded and worked hard.an clearly they were suchbut, clear importance that they were very carefully. in those days in the economy they function the most tangible possession do have and a thousand years later they had a thousand apologies. imagine the cost of looking after those.the so 3100 for the domestication of the donkey -- >> a thousand years earlier. >> i had this idea that it was the key to transportation.

but it seems that i've been wrong about this. >> you've been wrong a lot. imagine a world where the only way of transporting things was either on people's backs or canoes. so that made the beast extraordinarily important. the wheels came in later andin they were brought in by the mesopotamia and you have to have the animals -- of course later that is another world.>> and >> on the camel another creature was itself a burden.n. how many of you have read any

camel? >> they are stormy beasts. it wasn't the camera itself which was a remarkable animal. when people put them on caravans, you've found the water and the camel took you there. but the thing that made it important of all things was the type of saddle on the back. the initial was a simple one in saudi arabia on the back, but it got better when they put the saddle on the hump because at that point you could start fighting. and even then they developed a center to cross the sahara and

carry loads. let me give you a statistic in 1492. two thirds came from west africa across on capital back to this is an important animal. but it's not for the last.at >> the annal animals that are os we treated like members of our own family. there is also a history to this. there's the issue of cruelty to animals we see.. >> is, i was horrified by it.

my wife and daughter were genuine animal lovers. they love rabbits. we have cats. my wife and me and three cats. here was my wife come here with a cat, here was me. they criticized me an and decidy would adopt us. what horrified me a century and a half ago there were no injuries. everything was carried by humans. if we got into the logistics of keeping safe of adelphia clean or new york clean there were a quarter of a million animals in

chicago in 1880. today we eat animals and to treat animals inhumanely although this is beginning tos change and we have all these animals. i'm known as the bunny husband because i'm not particularly fond of rabbits. i know enough about them at this point. we realize this extraordinarychy dichotomy.

i had quite a bit of trouble witwith this book because oddly enough, there isn't a great deal of literature. >> it is a pony that spends life underground mainly in coal mines moving the coal from the place that was taken up to the surfach and these animals that were treated reasonably well spent their lives underground but when they were shot they were brought up and had trouble adjusting. and this was a huge population. in england at once implanted there were 70,000. but this died down by about basically one or two and there were people trying to make their

lives better. but what about which to them was the electric devices that you could use on-demand. animals whether we like it or not.erent i went to see if our panelists have any questions or comments on the presentations. >> my book was born on a sailboat and not realizing we bt had followed every word. [applause] >> i didn't g >> i didn't go anywhere. >> it was interesting because when you leave here to say to yourself i don't own this place, with landmarks would you use to get their because this is whatso

pilots do. you have landmarks. think about that when you leave if you got lost like i did among the architecture. [laughter]a nice way >> that's a nice way to put it. >> i sent it to the information people and she almost died. i am an englishman i can get away from it.away w >> any other questions or comments back and forth >> i'm fascinated by the history. was that the first domesticated transport animal? >> horses are later about 4500 bc.

you are talking abouyou're talkw animal but a horse assassinates mileage and they can use them but the donkey was the serious one. the auxin have to be watered.ry the donkeys linked mesopotamia with the mediterranean. they linked egypt. they linked afghanistan with countries further south and so on and so forth and the hybrid was one of the major roman empire. much neglected. but they are wonderful. [laughter] my wife has a horse, not on the property.

[inaudible]that i thought the advantage of aluminum cans as they do not rust. >> i use the term oxidize at the same time all three medals oxidize or can be made in some way to oxidize. it turns white. you will see it on planes it makes it stronger. >> it makes it stronger until a certain point at which it falls apart. a lot of the metals form a layer on the outside and you expose it to saltwater and it keeps creeping up. it's a way of creatinghe layer

layer. >> there's only six ways you can protect it which is why the book is fun to do. there isn't that much you can do. i couldn't have written more. i guess i could have kept going but there's only so many angles but it can take and i didn't actually go into the plating that it's one of those. you don't have a vivid picture of all of the metal medals on tr sailboat dot oxidize in different ways. >> we mostly had stainless steel. we bought this boat in mexico and i was sent there as a pioneer to investigate and see if it was about what we wanted was ab to buy some of which was a terrible move because i didn't know anything about goats but i went to camera and took a lot of

pictures. it looked at first time it took off in the water and the wind wd vein on the sterthey know mr. af into the water. the tracks that hold them inks place, amy and every part of the boat that had to do something wasn't because of rust. did n >> it was going to the hardware stores and asking what do i do about this and they told me so many different things. they said they don't know what they are talking about. i got me tthat got me to a confe called mega rust. they probably had the same

issues i had and met theth official and said no, i didn't know that guy existed. i did take some notes that prevents rust with a lining that has been linked to early puberty and miscarriage and of course cancer in rats. do you drink coke in cans or bottles? what is your sense of the lining solution? >> campbell soup got rid of it>b altogether because of the attention the subject is getting. and i don't know this.

it's pretty funny. we sort of assume the chemical is okay until we study it and find out it's not and there's only a handful that are not ok okay. bpa is entering the consciousness of the not okay chemical. i had no idea what their linings were with and they have to sneak into the school to find out. i can't even say if it's bettert it's something else we don't know about and you have to be a cynic to know it's just a chemical. unless they are drinking water. >> and are there no medals that don't corrode or oxidize? >> there are a handful. the coke cans that have differences to keep them from rusting and i found a pretty early on that beer is a minimal

to being put in aluminum cans so it needs to finish because it has proteins and it's not very acidic. but i liked it when they told me that beer was made for cans and cans were made for beer. [laughter] >> i think at that point we will open the question to audience.pp please go up to the microphones that the audience can hear your question. the policy here is if at allat possible, make your question a question. let's start over here. >> i had a question about the variables into question but if you have the general sense of increased technology changing, you talked about the number of miles that goes into producing something and whether the things that replaces, what is the cost benefit analysis in terms of energy put into that system?

>> if it would replace paper and postage and sending those thingn around and many other things technology replaces. is that utilizing things or the natural resources better orre aa worse? >> one of the future visions is the future of three d. printing technology as more ubiquitous and less specialized than it is now and it's already making some pretty amazing things in the technology. but, imagine the sort of death of the shipping in general where you don't find a good that you buy the software that make thine good and then at some local

location if not in your own household for some things. what sort of be the return of the local manufacturing as beine competitive with global manufacturing without all of the related carbon emissions. of course you still have to move off of the material around. theoretically, it could be a much smaller impact on the world than on our wallets if we did it that way. but it's something that is transformative and also it could mean the end of millions of jobs.u truck drivers it is one of the most common occupations in america so there are a lot of unintended consequences and thai shift as well. >> over here. >> a quick comment on the three d. producing. we have some research currently the most popular product couldod be printed on three d. printers is a three d. -- 3d selfie.

can you talk about the military, for example is this a risk of the reserve forces or is it the risk for country combat forces as well? >> at risk for nuclear weapons.. i get this courtesy he found out that at the height of the coldae war we put a tape somewhere on there so that if somethinghing happened, neutrons couldn't pass through and trigger the reaction.th unfortunately that rested in place so if somebody had kicked about and nothing would haveai happened and this was our come i am going to get the name wrong but it was one of the most powerful nuclear weapon and ih t

sort of bow down to him for finding that because it must've taken a decade of the work. but in the pentagon, they'veen done a lot of work. he uses the word material a lot and they've studied the effect on the readiness of planes and helicopters and boats and they actually calculated by weight which ones cost the most to repair. you could put a dollar figure. each one costs this much. it's taken certain claims out of commission for weeks a year and it worked on the numbers every which way and said it is the number one threat aside from people that are actually engaging in the war. it's a 20 billion-dollar a year problem to the military.

so, dan dye my -- dunmier said he doesn't want the weapons suffering in the hands of our soldiers. it's a good fight.>> so, spe so, after speaking about the truck drivers i think the bigger threat is the self driving vehicles. but the question i had was if you could just relate each of you great stories about the unintended consequences and i think in particular things likew invasive species and they are invading certain ecosystems now. are there other stories you come across of good intentions gone bad?

>> i think that is as big -- in the recent decades it was the low tech development that enabled off shoring. they became more efficient for a thousand years they used to loae ships like you pack your truck going away for vacation and they havhad a little crane to help t out you have to see how they work. they have these cranes that drop them down and all the goods are sealed away from the port. there is somthere's some of that like it used to be for every

shipment.t likeed everybody's like it's going to lower the cost of good at what it enabled was moving everything offshore. whether that is good or bad is another question but that would be unintended consequence. do you have any unintended consequences from the domestication of animals that you would like to mention? compasically that is a very complex question because if you look at the domestication of animals were all doing the huma. relationship with the environment and the landscape and each other and animals who become property with the animals themselves and immediately in

the early stages of relationship ultimately the animal becomes a commodity. and in a way, it is rather like the container calls on the one hand you have all these changes made on the other hand, you hava much more interaction with people in a distance and then you've got water and camels in the distance has gotten larger and larger about you start up be whole business of let's say you paid in exchange for gold. it may take months to get there and you don't even know the person at the other end so you get into this business of anonymous trade. >> i was wondering your thoughts about the impact affecting --

>> is at th it the new donkey or something else? >> it's in the industrial revolution. industrial revolution. >> thank goodness. there's this idea sending the army of drones out to deliver individual packages is not goin to happen in any foreseeableall. future. they said you can as long as yoa have a human operator in sight of it. you have to drive there and then deploy to deliver. now the companies that are itching to have drones are those like ups and federal express because they run these crazy overnight goods.

they are doing the work for 95% of what they do. if we have the good there will be big airliners not little drones banging on the door. >> in a few minutes we have left i went to turn to the question of writing itself. where did you get the idea for this book and what was the hardest thing about writing thie book? >> the hardest thing. >> one of the big discussions in journalism is to write what you know or don't know and i think it is fantastic that you get the opportunity to write what you don't know. i think that when you do knowtu something, you get, you form

what it's like and you don't go down certain roads. i didn't even know there were roads to go down. >> my wife likes to say i'm the happiest guy she knows and apparently i stopped shaving [inaudible] [laughter] actually, i rolled over an animal referenceinanimal referet makes my writing, we have three rescue greyhounds that are mostly couch potatoes and rug potatoes because they will be around me when i'm writing and they know when they need to get ou