>> guest: what's funny about this book is that when i was in college and going for my journalism degree at this idea to write them great american novel and i come from rural missouri were my family lives and everyone has all of these stereotypes about flyover country, "flyover nation", sad part of it written and then as we barreled toward this-- political environment the whole thing we heard from president obama, this idea that we have

from the west coast to the east coast that people in flyover country are a bunch of backward kill abilities that shoot our guns off when we practice animal sacrifice are ever-- whatever we do in the backwoods, they have the stereotypes, but none of this is true and there are a lot of issues that "flyover nation" has with east and west coast, but then there are a lot of issues we look at differently, so part of it is explaining that perspective, that lends to which myself and everyone else who comes from the midwest in flyover nation and also gets into sort of how we are tired of being drowned and tired of taking it all this time and it explains why and people have risen up why this election cycle is as weird as it is we can even trend or predict anything or anticipating big anymore, so it picks lanes all of that's one of the things, also, to pointed out

as well is i was in the middle of writing this book, actually finished it when the whole comment about new york valley zoo's happened everyone was so angry about new york values and i love new york, but people in new york do not get made fun of the way people in flyover nation do people in new york do not get viewed as being related to their cousin daddy or looked at in the same manner and they got so mad over one little remark and they wanted everyone else to defend them and i was sitting here with the rest of my "flyover nation" family and i'm thinking, no, no, you don't get to be mad we are zero's made fun of in the people that are passed up, passed around, underestimated, taken for granted and expected to show up and vote and stand up and just be there whenever we are needed, no, you don't get to be angry as we have been down trotted enough in underestimated enough. you don't get to be angry. let me show you what we've been

through my entire life and before that. actually had an addendum. i went back and added an addendum after it was already written. i called my publisher and said we have to add to this here because it's perfectly explaining why are wrote this book. >> host: the title makes sense to me as sort of a meme, flyover country, "flyover nation" and we know what you are referring to appear for the uninitiated in the c-span audience, how do you define the term flyover nation? >> guest: flyover nation is the area between new york and la, that 30,000 feet below your plane window would you go from new york to la or la to new york or dc to elliott or wherever, is that huge quilt that it looks like when you look down. is small-town america. its mom-and-pop shops, the people who-- middle class america people who are farmers. i have an uncle who owns a

quarry of me people who work in the quarry, everyday people who aren't on the coast to value family and have different values , which i get into the book as well. but, it's all of those people that don't get the attention that the coast get, that the beltway got. >> host: we will get to politics certainly, but you are living in flyover nation. tell us personally about your journey, your american story that party to this studio with your second book. >> guest: it's a weird one because i always wanted to write, but i never wanted to be in front of the camera. i never had any, any, any desire-- >> host: that doesn't last. >> guest: no, it didn't. i went in kicking and screaming. awaited to be behind-the-scenes, but where i come from in rural missouri, we have huge family.

of 24 cousins and that's just on my moms side, so we are a pretty big family, but it's close to family, a tightknit family. the town my family comes from, there are literally 301 people in it. there's one restaurant, there is a quick march and that's where all the action happens, you know if you want to go in get some little debbie snack cakes or-- not a slur become i forget what they call it, but you express the. it's like the generic version of a slushy. you go to the quick mark-- march. everyone knows everyone. i was raised by single mother who left the country to go get a job because there are not a lot of jobs down there where i come from. you can work in the school. you could work as a hairdresser. may be if you are lucky you can get a job at the tiny bank or work as a waitress in the restaurant or work in a quarry that's about it. there's not a lot of jobs down

there and people down there it's a different way of life because everyone is not striving to have something. there is no that we have to keep up with the joneses. people are happy with what they have. of they are happy being on their property and be able to go and go fishing in the river. it's just a really scaled-back downsized slow down the way of life. it's so completely different and my mom left and went to the city to get a job. i obviously went with her. i was really isolated and really alone in the city and it was so weird because you would think that would not be the case because there are silly people around everywhere, but i found being in a big city is the easiest way to feel the loneliest because you are isolated by these people you don't know and so in the city no one cares what your last name is. no one cares what your family does. no one knows your family. no one knows you resemble each other. no one knows any of that stuff and back in the small town where

my family came from everyone knew everyone. we all knew who you were in what your family's last name was because you resembled her grandpa, i mean, it was different. then, eventually stayed in the city to go to school and to work myself and i would always-- i love going back to visit family, visit family in the ozarks and reconnecting getaway from everything. 11 dallas, now. we moved from missouri to dallas and i like it there. i was still classify it as flyover because everyone still thinks it's like the wild west in dallas. >> texas counts. >> guest: texted-- texas does totally count. people-- it's a different aesthetic and i was i was telling you earlier is different. i don't-- i have friends from la and whenever they would visit like st. louis when we used it to live in st. louis i took one of my friends actually down to

where some of my family lives and it's a whole other world down here. we have to get a camera crew down here because this is a whole other world. like you guys don't have stoplights down here. were to the kids go to have fun, well, their bonfires or go to the river took it was just beyond their comprehension that people live scaled-back and are pretty downsized and relaxed. but, i think i like to take that sort of aesthetic with me with work because when i do is very far, as you know. you live in dc. you are the beltway now. you don't seem like a beltway guy. >> host: i'm such a city slicker. >> guest: but you don't seem that way. you seem to have that aesthetic or vibe where you appreciate flyover nation and the people in that sort of relaxed-- i don't know slow-motion sort of living or lack of a better way to

describe it, but i like to visit new york, but i could not live here. i get claustrophobic with the buildings. i can see the sky. and dc, while i drive pretty much like everyone in dc it's pretty to look great to visit, but there's something that i miss seeing something i missed the new york and even something i miss in la, so we have had chances where we could have moved to new york or dc and i can't. i can't do it. i miss just the way of life in the middle of the country and i'm isolated from all the drama, so when someone is like did you hear-- i didn't hear what happen i'm in the middle of the country. i didn't hear it. >> host: gossip is universal. >> guest: stayed with the personal, i think what may be intriguing to some readers of "flyover nation" is that they are familiar with your work on fox news, you're a regular of the megyn kelly show, for example.

you have your own programming you are sort of note-- i don't think you would disagree as a bit of a conservative brawler. you fight. you have your game face on. in "flyover nation", there were passages that were extremely personal that i was not expecting from you an insight into your family and history or do sort of alluded to your single mother situation, some abuse. was that difficult for you to write about and being public about a broader audience. >> guest: you know, way that when i think it was about 2001, when i first started blogging. i wanted an outlet to write about stuff that i wasn't writing about what i was freelancing. and wanted to mess around and write whatever and have fun with it and see where it went and most of it is still up there. i explored a lot of that online. i don't think it was. it was honest and wrong and i think he does inform people kind of where i come from where i guess my tone is.

why i take the tone that i take just because, i mean, what you see is what you get i mean i don't put up a front if i go on television-- you have been out with me before in bold with me before. i think it's-- it informs the reader where i come from a kind of how i operate aware operate and why i'm so passionate about certain things. why you my passion about the family unit, because i have seen first hand what happens when it breaks down. i've lived through that. why am i sense a champion of supporting single moms? because i had a single mom pick all of these issues, i have lived them in some respect and server instance the issue of abortion or unexpected pregnancy. well, my husband and i were not married and i was in college when i had my first child and i had every pressured every invitation to the world to have an abortion. you could go ahead and freelancing continue on this

path in college. this is not the best time to have a baby. i believe in accepting the consequences of your choices and i'm just very frank about it but i think also people relate to a story and they relate to if you're open about your experiences where you come from, people relate to that because they think-- i think a lot of hearts and minds are more easily change when you reach out to people and try to connect with emma a real level as opposed to lecturing them. i'm not perfect. this is where i come from and these are the decisions i made in this is why a few things the way they do, so maybe you can see it from that way a little bit. >> host: i think when the public see someone tv it's almost dehumanizing, you must have a perfect life and no one is perfect. >> guest: no one is perfect. >> host: you go through that the book. you open with a reference to thomas frank, famous book from years ago "what's the matter with kansas" where he couldn't figure out why people in kansas

would vote republican. against their interest. talk about that book shaped "flyover nation". was this that all framed as a conservative comeback? >> guest: in a way. it wasn't intended to be. that was one of the things in my mind when i added it to my repository of people and writings that i just kind of way to tell off and sort of push back against. it did factor that way because so much has been said about, we can't understand why some vote this where we can understand why people would think this way and i just disagreed with his premise. i disagreed with what the president said and the reaction to new york values. in a way, i guess, for the lack of a better way to put it or to put it away my family would appreciate i'd guess you could say it was like skinner responding to neil young.

sort of may be in the same vein. >> host: boo-hoo. [laughter] >> guest: southern man, don't need him around. >> host: you made reference to this already and i went to explored a little bit more deeply, this disconnect and the polarization. as we had this conversation the book is out, available for purchase all over the country and we are still reeling from the orlando terrorist attack at a gate nightclub and it was inspired by isis and we are still tracking down all the details. there was a poll that-- a gallup poll that asked whether the attack was more about islamist terrorism or more about domestic gun violence and the country was split almost right down the middle with republicans overwhelmingly saying terrorism and democrats overwhelmingly guns. how do you address that massive -- it seems to separate notches the things we believe, but almost the premise, the fact

is set from which we approach issues? >> guest: this is a problem we have in this country so badly is that people want to be right and they don't really care about the actual debate and in that poll your referencing you are correct it was split down the middle p or there was no gray area at all there. it to should not be that way. it's really should have. of course, believe the whole situation was a terrorist situation. it doesn't matter how you look at it. but, i wish that instead of people just kind of taking a party line they could immediately remove that as a variable from this discussion and just look at the basic facts of the matter. this was a person who is professedly bully system that is completely incompatible, profess a belief system completely intolerant of everything in which he does not believe.

you does not like women. he does not like a spare key does not like western culture or christianity or any of the things that here in the united states people are allowed to be who they are and they are allowed to worship our villa to worship and women can vote in this country and we can drive cars unlike saudi arabia. that it was so polarizing is-- has a lot to do with the political rhetoric as well. it seems in some ways that not just really so much people in flyover nation, although i think they are targeted coming of this yankee back-and-forth, the right and left pulling them one direction or another and it goes back to we need you to shop a certain way to vote or we need you to support this issue because we want you to support it, but that divide is kind of scary because now politics is deciding whether we could equally defend ourselves in a major threat and domestic terror attacks are increasing in the us whether we went to realize it or not. we don't live in a mayberry then sunshine world where we don't have to worry if we go to a

club, where if we go to a baseball game we don't have to worry or 12 mall we don't do worry we don't live in that world anymore and unfortunately we will have to protect ourselves her home because not enough has been done to contain it overseas and that's the situation we are in. unfortunately we have people who don't want to acknowledge this is a terrorist issue because that means sacrificing another part of their narrative and they would rather be right on an issue, rather win the argument that actually addresses what happening and be morally and ethically correct on how to handle this. >> host: you argue that people who don't live in flyover nation , don't understand it and have really deep-seated misunderstandings or even kind of bias in some ways against people who do live in what you characterize as flyover nation's. you .-dot but the church, guns, the military. how would you explain like a foreign country as you said. how would you inflame the misconception how do you try to

correct them in the book? >> guest: well, you're right, i mean, everyone there are these crazy stereotypes about flyover nation, middle america and the people that i think, have a genuine interest in understanding what makes flyover different from the west coast or the east coast, those people when they visit flyover nation are like this is amazing. i took a road trip with a friend. i had to speak in any annapolis and my friend passed away a few years ago and we were on a road trip from indianapolis back to st. louis before he went back to la where he lived and he wanted to just pull off the highway to go to all of these little mom-and-pop talents. he's like they don't have this in la. this is amazing. we went to this one place where you could get deep fried anything any that was the most amazing thing in the world. he's like you get a deep fryer in you deep fry everything and you sell it. god bless america. >> host: what was the craziest deep-fried something ever?

>> guest: what haven't i eaten that has been deep-fried? i got a deep fryer as a wedding gift. i'm not kidding you. like the first two months my husband and i deep-fried everyone-- everything. >> host: were you asking for a? >> guest: no, it is just one of the things to do in the ozarks. i have had a deep-fried dingdong, deep-fried twinkie, deep-fried every vegetable. i think i did a deep-fried pizza roll-- i'm trying to think what i have it deep-fried. you can't make it weird. it's all delicious when you deep fry it. it's horrible for your health, but it's deliciously one so, it's almost like some on the left or some people in the coastal, however you would describe them look at like bible believing christians from the heartland as almost this sociological phenomenon. explain what the church has actually meant in your life day today, not as well i have the

bible and i but because of these issues. what is your relationship with christ to mean to you and what is your church community mean to you and your family? >> guest: my-- in growing up the churches where they sent out because there are three churches in the town where my family lives and you can-- >> host: no stoplight, three churches. >> guest: and they are all in the same road you can see the other two from the other ones parking lot. they'll compete especially with their signage, but when my grandmother was on hospice it was the church that sent brother jim. they all call him brother, baptist church. they sent someone to be with my grandmother and the family and it was that church accepted when my uncle who was a drug addict and he was dying fluid from jacksonville, broke, completely broke with not a nickel to his name. he had nothing. he was all by himself, estranged

from even his kids and it was the church that stepped in to make sure you get a respectable funeral because that's what you do in flyover nation. 's live nation the church isn't there to board religion over you because we are all imperfect and especially when you live in small towns, that perfection is on display every single day. of the church is there to assist the churches there-- that's where you could together in fellowship and worship and help each other out. that's what the church is in "flyover nation". the church-- i have seen them throw baby showers for unwed mothers and help out my father-in-law in hospice and he deals with aids patients on her deathbed who are professing faith in christ and so i have seen the church action. that's the church i've grown up with work is a cornerstone in a community that helps keep the community together. it's not there is some sort of-- is not the way it has been made

out to be and there has been a lot of effort by progressives in east coast west coast of the beltway to divide people, to really be the divide between the church and the people and i feel badly for the people who fall for feel badly for the people who have a bad impression of the church because that's not the church can bet that the faith i have grown up with. that's not the fate i've seen every day of my life and i wish that they would flyover nation-- come to flyover nation and see it in the small town's. >> host: we are having a delightful conversation and it's so much fun. i don't want potential readers to be misled your queue definitely throw punches in this book. you are coming from a strong perspective and you don't shy away, unsurprisingly from hot button issues. you made a few comments earlier about abortion. you get into physician-assisted suicide a bit as well in here and you write on page 27

physician-assisted suicide is a glossy term for euthanasia or more plainly a very late-term abortion. is that fair x abortion-- i'm pro-life. abortion, part of the argue it is the human whose life is being ended has no say in the matter whatsoever, but in many cases in physician-assisted suicide someone is making a choice for themselves and their life based on their circumstances. isn't that it important distinction? >> guest: i think it's a distinction, but not a qualifying one because the way i look at it is it's not their decision to make. it's not anyone's decision to make as to whether or not to end a life. i mean, i can look at this from eight christian perspective also. is a god thing. it's god's decision in your completely eliminating him from the equation. would he say i think i'm done now and i think i will go out the way i want to go out, and finished.

will, who knows maybe it's in those last couple of days that your life actually directly impacts on else's. i've seen that happen. i gave the example of my uncle a drug addict who came in from jacksonville and died in st. louis. he actually because being a drug addict sometimes into a drug addict friends and it was on-- it was in his dying does on his deathbed his friends said it hit me. i saw what he was doing with his life and it impacted me and it changed me. you never know how something is going to affect someone else and i think it is where that reason-- i just viewed differently. i just think you are on god's time not your own timeline a not that big decision for you to make. >> host: another front in the cultural war, boiled over at a small establishment in indiana called memories pizza. you discuss memories pizza and this is an issue that i think a lot of people feel strongly about on both sides to talk about what happened there and why you think it's emblematic of some of the issues you get in

"flyover nation". >> guest: i cannot think of a more apropos story than that one that really describes how people view "flyover nation" because you had a reporter from bloomington, indiana, who went down and really want out of her way to find some sort of christian mom-and-pop shop that she could serotype. >> host: during the freedom-- >> guest: the ballot in indiana. that was basically allowing people to say if you own a business and you want to choose how you want to run your business that is fine. if you don't want to violate your religious conscious. there are limitations. people think it's a free-for-all, no. if you actively engage in a discrimination then you run afoul of the law, but if you are sincerely professing your say-- faith and saying on this one instance of a wedding ceremony i don't want to give you my artistic skill or my labor or my expression then that's understandable and that's what

this was about. this reporter went out of her way and went to this little tiny tiny small town, one of those small towns where you have the storefront windows people park the middle of the street and went in and she saw crosses on the wall of this pizza shop and thought here it is and walked inside your crystal, the daughter of the party was at the cash register that day and she, would you cater a gay wedding and the weirdest thing is that there was no actual service done, no goods or money was exchange or anything like that it was a hypothetical question and crystal said, we serve gay and lesbian customers every day. that's one thing, but the act of a wedding ceremony goes against what we believe as christians, so probably wouldn't participate and i was thinking the reporter would go to like a quick trip and be like can i buy something rounds and stack stack them up for a wedding cake or something like that or orders or whatever.

it was weird they went to a pizza shop and i wrote about this because i have gay friends and gay family members and i'm sorry, i'm from the ozarks. we would never cater a wedding with pizza. i'm not throwing shame on anyone who ever has, but do these people not understand like our neighbors the roy block party in st. louis. gay neighbors, fabulous. no one is going to cater their wedding with a pizza for crying out loud. anyway, and i became a big story in this restaurant was all of a sudden at the center of all of this maddening debate. they had to close up shop, close their blinds, they were getting death threats for a hypothetical question. it was maddening because not only was it something that never actually happen and there was no discrimination that took place except the discrimination against christian proprietors of a pizza shop because this is more than an issue of whether or not you are serving a cake at a gay wedding or photographing a

gay wedding or getting pizza to a gay wedding reception. take that variable out of it. this is ultimately about who owns your labor work can the government to commit and say, no, no, no, you don't get to determine how you work, when you work you provide your services to. we do. it's about association, which we have our head's up in this. the thing about it is that you are talking about service and that's openly with his wealth down to learning you remove all the windowdressing of identity politics and this is about indentured servitude and people are too involved in these identity politics to realize actually what path they are being led down with his argument and that's the scary thing about it. this though, fact you had a reporter that went to the small town and saw someone out to prove a narrative as she was building, that's exactly why people in the flyover nation have had it. >> host: one of the villains in that story, memories pizza was

the media and that is one of the villains in the book overall in "flyover nation" where you have it in full-- or out or however you want to save for the mainstream media. you talk about the deep distrust of immediate among the american people. why don't you comment on that briefly, just about the loss of trust and why you think of that has in the case and if there's anything people in the media can do to regain it. >> guest: i don't know if there is. i realize the irony of what i do is considered part of the media and that it churns my better. i still like it. but, it is what it is. first off, don't ever think there's been anything-- there's been an objective media or a unbiased media. media started in the united states because ben frank the wanted to snort-- talk smack about people i mean is the american way of life. i think some people have more

decency than others and some people are more committed to giving you the story while minimizing their editorial input as much as possible and that i can appreciate. i appreciate it-- "flyover nation" is the same way. we don't care if you're a republican or democrat peer don't pretend you are not while delivering as a story. don't pretend you don't have a bias by delivering a story to us and they see that on nbc, cbs and abc and they see it with anchors. the anchor, the person that you invited to your home when everything's hit the fan and it got really bad and you want to hear a trusted voice, we don't have that anymore. people don't even desire that anymore as they don't trust the media. these people at least thought they could do some sort of job, watchdog of the government and just inform them of what's going on and they don't even do that anymore. you have cbs echoes and violates the federal law where it concerns gun purchases because they want to lecture to people about them control their documentary filmmakers that do the same thing. we don't expect people to not

have lives and we don't expect people to not have bias or preferences one way or another over an issue, but don't act like you don't and deliver us a story in your narrative while pretending to be objective. that's why no one trust the media anymore and it "flyover nation" particularly. >> host: part of your critique in the media you have this chart here where you have-- [laughter] >> host: salaries listed of some of the top news anchors in the millions of dollars annually and first i was interested in some these numbers, but i did have this thought, we are capitalists we believe in people earning with the market fetches it is seen likes is the left that obsesses unfair, ill-gotten gains, millions of dollars where successful people are demonized or do you feel like you might be doing sort of the left sort of borrowing from their playbook and obsessing out of her ceo pay

but media pay? >> guest: not really because we are not the ones trying to shame the so-called 1% for earning and doing well. we are not trying to go after them. like i remember the aunt by wall street coverage and these same media personalities were out there making it as though it's horrible if you are a business owner today, why don't you increase your hourly wages to $15 an hour or if you really love them bring up to $25 an hour. we are not the ones that demonizing success. i love in the united states of america there are people who can make millions of dollars a year or can't not jealous of them. i don't want to take anything from them pick i think you can still do it in the us and that's wonderful. however, those same people don't want anyone else getting up to their level, so they demonize all of the things about capitalism that we-- capitalism has raised communities from the ash. capitalism has done amazing things in this world and done amazing things in this country

in these people want to penalize people who work hard and went to be able to keep the fruits of their labor. they penalize business owners pointed to keep their doors open they penalize people for not artificially wait-- raising the wages be on the market. they demonize the very things that they use to get to the success they are right now. that's ahead pockets in all this we don't do that. >> host: lets talk about rhetoric and violence. we heard from some on the left in the wake of orlando, setting aside the facts and what actually inspired this monster to murder 49 people in a gay club, setting aside his own words in some cases, as the anti- rhetoric, anti-gay legislation, christian conservative, the same fall guys that they want to blame for everything and there's this argument that conservative hostility or conservative rhetoric on lg bt issues has contributed to a culture or a

climate where there is hatred and therefore, we ought to watch what we say on the right. do you do that a little bit on the flipside with black lives matter in our shop-- how sharpton and mayor deblasio say these people are blood on their hands when someone kills a cop? is the right guilty of this also? >> guest: i don't-- >> host: you do mention those examples. >> guest: no, don't it is because any particularly when i think of al sharpton there is nothing i recall that anyone on the right that has ever said that has decided to print-- burn down a fashion and action on out there to try to and antagonize and increased violence and hope that rhetoric will plant the seed that spurred some sort of violent protest. we actually speak out against that. in comparing that to anything that's ever been said about gay and lesbian rights as well, i mean, no one-- no one talks like that on the right, to say things

that wouldn't be in any way comparable to love. >> host: maybe on the fringe. >> guest: every side has its french. we have the west bureau called tickets out there and some things that are probably not acceptable for broadcast to say about that group, but that's other day. >> host: sees fantasia, by the way c2c spans a shoe. that's not a faith. that entity reminds me-- i don't know-- i will bring this back to shore, but real quick in poltergeist three where they have the guy and he like lead this cold. >> host: i haven't had the pleasure. >> guest: that's who he reminds me of, the pulverized from culture guys three. anyway, the cult leader. >> host: the reverend from kimi schmidt. >> guest: i haven't seen that, but it sounds like it fits perfectly. back to shore. when i see some of the things i'd black lives matter active sme i've seen their protests and

they are violent. i don't know what their objective is to usually when he protested what you have an objective. you what you stand for something, but you want to advance what you're fighting for board so you can gain another step from that i does he wear black lives matter does that. i don't see where causing violence is doing that or running down cops is doing that unless the girl is chaos and maybe that's a whole other point >> host: all of them, like all a black lives matter? >> guest: i have yet to see an example of not. >> host: there's an assertion you make in the book that our leaders, our political class really hates us. you quote-- >> guest: i don't like politics. >> host: democratic leader harry reid famously talked about smelly tourists in washington dc use really take your shot the democrats, but republicans are not spared either in "flyover nation". eric cantor, his name comes up, the revolving door of you get out-- you get voted out and then

you are a lobbyist influencing the situation you used to be a part of. is that part of the disconnect that drives people in flyover country up the wall that washington? >> guest: it is and is one of the reasons why we are in the position we're in now with the political climate. the republican nominee and i have said this before he is one giant redheaded middle finger to washington dc because people are fed up and they don't know what to do. they want someone that will go through the whole system regardless of the consequences. they just have lost faith not only in the way that washington works, but they have lost faith in the vehicle that they are believed to have been told for 70 years this will be the bit-- best way to get your conservative ideals in a practice in washington and that's with the republican party and they have seen the republican party compromise on budgetary issues, compromise on taxation. they have seen them compromise

on issue after issue or not do anything on issue after issue. they have seen the leaders of the republican party that was more of the grassroots members. who in here is representing us a more it's infuriated them, i mean, that they had gone so far outside of the system and there are discussions as to whether the nominee they have is part of the system and has been, but not a politician, for sure. it's not the politician in the weight we abnormally gone about electing politicians. >> host: we will return to mr. trump. >> guest: yeah, but they are mad. i get some calls and video my radio program where people-- it's a conservative audience and it skews younger more female and i have never in the past couple of years-- i've noticed a huge shift. people are equally angry and sometimes i think more so at republicans because they expect this stuff from democrats. i had one call that said i

expect harry reid to betray me. i expect nancy pelosi to do this i did not and should not have too expected from the republican party leaders. i people who called in and said they left the republican party because he did not want to feel like they are being betrayed in the same manner that they have been with democrats and so they are finished and they don't even want to hear anymore. they are not even out a spot where they are open to hearing anything else about it and that's a really tough position to be in. usb earlier with the media can do to regain trust with both. i think that is the least of the country's worries. i think it's what the republican party can do to regain trust. >> host: to what extent-- we both work in the conservative media world. >> guest: yes. >> host: town hall and all of various associations. to what extent do we as a community or an industry if you want to call it that bear some responsibility in setting excitation. for example, one argument we hear is republican said they

will repeal obamacare and obamacare still the law. there when the house to do when the senate they voted to repeal obamacare, got it to the president desk to be towed and it still the law or do we bear some responsibility in like why people are so angry because they thought things could work in ways they literally could not? >> guest: no-- i think you're right. i definitely feel i am completely. i started out in the-- i have been blogging for a long time and i think there are people who are straight journalist and they went to be objective reporters, which i have never claimed to not have a bias. but, there are people who want to mash that activism with journalism and i have even done that as well. i mean, i have gone out there and protested in 2009 here i cocreated the tea party my town back in 2009. i think some of it focusing on populist soundbites and not focusing enough on solutions

really contributed to that, contributed to one of the reasons we are in this position in the first place. i believe it's at the bar for high expectations as to how dc works and that's not a compromise based on a forfeit, but-- and i told people this for a long time, this is a marathon not a sprint. i think as you mentioned high expectations, people think these in washington can get done in short order and they can't. that's not how the system was designed to work. it takes a long time to get things done in washington and particularly when you are looking about changing the soul and operations of a political party and having the impact washington as a whole. that takes quite a long time and takes with more than one or two or three election cycles. people don't have the patience for that anymore it they think a lot of the rhetoric we have heard from both sides and myself included have contributed to that. >> host: what-- one of the buzz phrases that has percolated on your air, on our blogs for years

now during the obama administration is american exceptionalism. you have an entire chapter in "flyover nation" defending american exceptionalism. there's the famous or perform perhaps infamous quote from president obama asked about american exceptionalism or he said i'm sure that britts-- the greeks and-- which was downplaying the whole point of american exceptionalism, first part of the question is why do you feel it was so important to have an entire chapter about why america is exceptional in the second part of the question will deal with the republican nominee in a second, but first let's talk about the issue itself. american exceptionalism, wide that warrant an entire chapter in "flyover nation"? >> guest: i feel the whole discussion has been absent largely in the past eight years. it almost seems as though we are supposed to feel ashamed of the exceptional, that we are supposed to be ashamed of having a country that is a beacon to

the rest of the world, if freedom dies america where people go after that? nowhere. this is it. of every country-- you can say european countries are also free , they have a lot more limitations, but the united states really is this great experiments and exercise and republicanism and independence and when you lose that, where does it go? we had been made to feel ashamed of being frankly that world were one, world war i and world war ii chance. women made to feel bad about being great, that being a great nation. that's not nationalism and it's not just blatant patriotism. we are a great country. it's honest. what's nation on this earth has done more for-- has done is much more other countries as united

states? we step in and give aid to everyone. we step in sometimes i think too much about whole other discussion. we are everywhere. i went on vacation in the caribbean and couple of weeks ago and while i was down there we chartered this a boat we were going to go fishing and i don't know if like a captain and first mate thought that are we going to bharat and they said the us coast guard comes all the way down here. we were in the west indies and we thought the us coast guard and they said yet they are everywhere. you guys are everywhere. i will have to admit there was a little part of that i was like yeah we are. i really felt that way. we are on exceptional country and we should not have to feel bad about that. we should not have to feel bad about being great and offering people freedom and independence to live their lives as they choose and if they want to raise himself up to a different circumstance or not they have that choice of me and the ability to do so. there's nothing wrong with that in a set refusal to acknowledge or celebrate what makes this country great that has really

frustrated a lot of people and i even get into particulars with the military when you look at who send their sons and daughters into the military more its flyover nation. >> host: disproportionately. >> guest: disproportionately. we send our sons and daughters to go and probably served and to fill these obligations and what our government pass of them overseas and elsewhere and when we hear their endeavors and when we see their objectives spoken down on by the president. like it's bad if we had knowledge that what we are doing is good or keeping america safe is good, that makes people in flyover angry because they have sacrificed, so i'm from a family who has sacrificed more than one child of their family, gold star families. i know families who have had everyone of their children serve and when we are supposed to feel ashamed of our commerce missed an ashamed of everything that their values have one for this country, that's another reason

why i read this book. >> host: that presumptive republican nominee slogan is make america great again ended their something underlying, which is perhaps we have lost some greatness or rate is altogether. donald trump was asked about american exceptionalism and his formulation was not exactly the same as president obama's, but there were some striking similarities in their posture on this. is that just like a face palm moment for you? >> guest: when i heard the slogan for the first and i was trying to think up well, is this in response to obama over the past eight years because this president has gone on apology tour's. ease apologize-- where has he not gone-- everywhere he has gone his apologize for our country and in apologizing for our country he would make some remark.

in egypt he .-ellipsis, schmitz the arab world almost as if to slight the united states and when you do that on an international stage it does sort of feel like you are trying to reduce america to not being so fantastic and in the past eight years with the passage of-- a. >> host: cutting us down to size is what it feels like. >> guest: it absolutely does with the unaffordable care act a lot of the brands they have been making guns. america is not as free as it was eight years ago, that's for sure especially for the unaffordable care act. america is not as free as it was eight years ago. i think there is a certain truth in recovering some of the rights that we have lost in terms of whether or not as a country we have lost that animating spirit that drives us towards freedom, that drives us towards independence, that drives us towards everything that makes

the country great, whether or not we have lost that time will-- i don't believe we have because there are too many people in this country that's still believe in the entire reason why this country was founded and they believe it-- believe in all of the things of our constitution and everything the founders believed in. i don't think it's lost, but i do think it has been obscured by a lot of what we have seen over the past eight years. >> host: when i picked up "flyover nation", one of the things i was most curious for the answer coming through, how much will dana talk about her tempestuous relationship with the trump campaign, donald trumps most ardent supporters and what i did know is that the trump campaign early stages reached out to you to possibly be an on-air circuit or to speak on their behalf. you declined signing what that interaction was like and then the relationship with trump and

have a seems to have really declined over the last number of months. >> guest: i have always and just admittedly and this even goes to ted cruz and lee and all the politicians, i always view politicians as different people and i don't feel-- almost as if when someone announces their ring province i feel kind of antagonistic towards them, even if i do agree with and because i feel that we should kind of the. if i don't want to have a cozy relationship with a politician, i don't really care for friends. are not there to be friends with them. i don't do any of that stuff for friends. it doesn't get you friends it honestly does not when you friends in washington. i've learned that. but come i feel as though i need , not unnecessarily so, but i want to ask questions. i want to know what formed the

opinions you have. i want to know what changed you because when you look how people are changed in their past because it's a great tool of witness. are not doing it as some sort of gossip and if you change on a issue i want to know what moved her heart and mind. >> host: or every issue? >> guest: correct because when you talk about that who knows how may people you might reach out to edit might resonate with people. it's amazing tool. there's that saying that god doesn't call that equipped, he equips the call and i think how great of a tool would that be if he would be able to talk about it and that's what i have always wanted to hear-- >> host: from trump on his political agenda? >> guest: yes, just drop all the other stuff in look at people and be real with that. that would resonate so much with people. it was a few years ago, his camp had reached out because we have a mutual friend and they wanted me to introduce him at seatac and i wasn't able to.

i had radioed a couple of other engagements and the you before last i went out and introduced him and i met him and he is very nice. we got along. i got along with his folks, with his staff and i never had a one-on-one with anything-- anyone in his staff where was particularly contentious. are just never been particularly preferential of any candidate. i have even gone after ted cruz on a couple issues pretty hard on a number of issues. i have gotten a lot of pushback for that, but that's just a mean i think you are supposed to do that and you should do that. i have never had any ill will towards anyone running. >> host: but, you did pen an essay in national review among many prominent conservatives wife you would not support-- >> guest: they were policy points. out a few policy issues. i wanted to know where does this

candidate stand on this issue and what changed on this issue. i want to know more about this issue before i come to a decision to make a decision and i just don't really think i can do this unless i know what's happening and i wrote that out. i would do that again. i would do it again. i would do it for any candidate where i felt i still had more questions or concerns. we are talking about major issues, supreme court nominations. we may actually-- we could stand depending on how this election goes to lose our rights to parry semi automatic rifles. that's where we are right now. we could lose reciprocity because of what happened in the appeals court in california, so these are huge issues. this-- we have the business of the country to attend the two and went to have have these questions answered and so-- >> host: you asked-- >> guest: on a couple of issues that have been whether or not i

still-- whether or not it's been to my satisfaction is one thing, but i think it could be made more clear. >> host: so, two more points on this because all anyone ever wants to talk about his term, trump. >> guest: i will say this, i view what's coming with hillary clinton in 2016 and it absolutely terrifies me as someone whose wife has been protected by a firearm, to lose that ability, i don't get scared and i don't get intimidated much, but that terrifies me. >> host: your previous book "hands off my gun". with trump and this whole episode since you did lend your name to that national review, so-called never trump, you are a forceful critic of him on television and elsewhere. >> guest: i have never never anything. i've never for anything and i am

never never anything. >> host: are you never hillary. >> guest: i will go that far. i've never hillary. guns are my make or break. >> host: i have seen some of the criticism that you have endured and those of us who have been critical from the light on principle of trump, that attacks especially directed at a woman pretty nasty, but some of them sort of the idea behind the attack is you have any cues and this is that rich irony of being an out of touch elitist because your critical of trump and here you have written "flyover nation", which is that and to the of that. you aren't sitting around a till parties in manhattan-- >> guest: i've never been to a till party in manhattan. >> guest: i've been with-- to one can't tell party in dc and i got really tired and went back to my hotel. >> host: is that a weird feeling? >> guest: it is. >> host: you are that anti- that. of literally written a book on

this and you because of some concerns over candidate and personality, that assumption is made at you and that sort of attacks that your motives i feel like and how would you respond to that? >> guest: i get people's anger because i have been there. i mean, in 2009, i protested outside of elected officials offices literally. i get the anger and i feel some people are at different stages in this marathon then i am because everyone starts at some point. i mean, we are setting up a political battle that our kids and our grandkids will be fighting, so that is a privilege of living in a free society is that you must constantly attend to this. we are just getting into the next level. this will be decided in our lifetime. we won't finally get everything we want our lifetime. it's a generational battle. progressive have been working out of for generations and as a result i think some people are at a different point in this marathon than others.

when i first really got involved in politics it was before 2001, and i was not for george bush. i was raised in a family of very hard-core democrats and "flyover nation" heart-- oddly enough. i was pro-life and i have always been unequivocally-- i have my life protected by gunowners. >> host: second amendment for the non- flyover people. >> guest: exactly. so, i guess the more educated i got in the more mature i became in my eyes open bit more and i realized the need for response ability that i threw myself into it and i was angry or comes angry because i felt like i had been betrayed by the ideology that propping up. i was angry and went in a full fist appear he. you may remember this. >> host: i do. >> guest: i think some of the people that are out there right now are where i was eight years

ago. they are exactly where i was in because of that i want to give them grace because they will see in time that it's kind of the way it is because i remember being absolutely unrelenting in going after someone selected-- some of the elected officials. go into their offices and organized people to phone bomb them with phone calls and then come i think, the longer you are doing it and you realize there are better ways to go about this, maybe more calculating ways to about this you just grow in its. and i think that's what some of these people are experiencing, so as a result of that i give them grace because i have been given grace and there are a lot of people out there who everything in the world and every reason to hate me because some of the things i let against them eight years ago and yet they don't, so i think that's

the way it works. >> host: many additional hard-core conservatives would agree with a lot of the content of "flyover nation". in a 20 second sales pitch, why should some who might be what you sort of disdain as a coastal elite left he who doesn't get it, why should they buy and read the book? >> guest: if they ever want to win an election or debate they need to get this book to understand the people they need to convince and where those people are coming from. what issues these people prize and it why they feel the way they do about these issues and how you can talk to these people without condescending to these individuals and you can also find common ground because i do get into that the book. there's a lot of common ground in this book that they might actually have and you can build a lot of stuff off of common ground. that's not compromise, but building a coalition and that's why they need this book. >> host: dana loesch "flyover nation", thank you very much. >> guest: thank you so much. appreciate it.

's next threat this month we are showing book tv programs during the week in prime time. in case you're not suddenly without we weekend features, but to the on c-span2 takes public affairs programming of focus is on the nonfiction book release or author interviews and book discussion. our signature programs are: in-depth, a life three are look at one author's book from questions from viewers. in-depth bears the first sunday of every month at noon eastern. afterwards is a one-on-one conversation between an author of a newly released nonfiction book and the interviewer who is either a journalist, public policy maker or legislature the mayor with the topic and often with opposing viewpoint. afterwards airs at saturday at 10:00 p.m. eastern and we will to you across the country visiting book festivals, and the parties were authors talk about their latest works. book tv is the only national network devoted exclusively to

nonfiction books. book tv on c-span2. television for serious readers. >> sunday night on q&a. >> it was in average, imagine of one racial lynching a week in the south and it was a brilliant psychological device to hold down a race because if you were black you were afraid this could happen to you sooner author lawrence labor talks about his literary career including his latest book "the lynching". about the trial following the 1981 killing of 19-year old michael donald by the kkk in mobile, alabama. >> michael is a teenager, trained to become a bricklayer. he's the youngest of seven children. his aunt asked him to give it-- glad get cigarettes. he goes out and this old buick

pulls up behind him. tiger knowles pulls out his pistol and orders him into the backseat of the car and he knows when he gets in that car what will happen. he's a black man in alabama. >> sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span q&a. >> you are watching book tv on c-span2 with top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. ..