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>> this week on q&a, author and hudson institute sr. fellow, author herman, mr. herman discusses his book, douglas macarthur, american warrior. >> author herman, what made douglas mcarthur so controversial. >> a number of things. i think they're aspect there aspect of his personality, the aspect of his politics and then there is also simply the what can i say the business of a man, here is someone who is a major american figure 41 and a half-century someone who commanded american troops in action and helped us shape american war policy and

not one, not to, but three world wars, world war i, world war i, world war ii and the cold war. here is somebody who really with the possible exception of franklin roosevelt, was presided at more events and made more decisions that shape the history of 20th century united states. and i can't think of anyone else with the exception of fdr. >> host: business as politics question. >> guest: he was a conservative republican which did not rub rail with the democratic presidency had to work with particularly fdr and harry truman. he was not a a conservative taft republican. he was not someone as taft republicans were interested in overturning aspects of the new deal and the incipient welfare state when he runs for president in 1952. he is more moderate than that.

that is offending some conservatives on that point. he is a resolute anti-communist at a time when depending on the left and is more sympathetic and more willing to sort of work with the soviet union. and he was a person who always gives off the air that he is the smartest person in the room. that if you do not know you are going to find out very soon. the decisions he made are made from the best possible evidence from the weightiest judgment and therefore should not and cannot be questioned. this rubs other people with similar bog large scale it goes the wrong way. it led to friction and conflict. with american presidents, two in

particular, fdr and truman, but also it led to conflicts with people within his own service and in the other branches of the u.s. military in that half-century plus career. >> host: when did you decide you wanted to write a big book on him? >> guest: the idea of a book on mcarthur was planted in my head by an added teacher at random house originally. and i actually thought about mcarthur as a great follow-up to some other work that i had done. i had done the joe mccarthy book for example, the war in the pacific but in the southwest pacific had intrigued me when i was working on my book on gandhi and churchill. was 11 of those moments when someone flashes a sign that you and suddenly everything converges then you realize this is something that i would not only like to do but something that i think could be really different from the kind of books that have been written about mcarthur in the past and the way in which to really rethink and reevaluate who this person was, what his real

significant was, what what his virtues really were that made him one of the most adored and actually did figures in american history, but also what were his flaws and what were the things that made him in many ways unpleasant and even hated by millions of people. >> host: we have videos from the 1952 republican national convention where he spoke. the reason to show this is not in a silly because he was at the convention but because people who have never seen him get a chance to look at them. the video is not very sharp. >> i speak with a sense of pride, that all of my long life i have been a member of the republican party [applause]. as before me was my father. an ardent supporter of abraham lincoln. [applause].

i have an abiding faith that this party if it remained true to its great traditions can provide the country with the leadership which as in the days of lincoln will bring us back to peace and tranquility. >> that was 1952, he died in 1964. he is 84 years old when he died. where was he in his life he died. where was he in his life at this point? >> guest: that was an interesting clip for couple a reason. it's hard to believe that man is 72 years old. he looks great. everybody who knew mcarthur were always stunned at the degree to which even at times of enormous stress like during the korean war and then leading the southwest pacific during world war ii people were stunned by

the fact that he always seemed to be very healthy that he seemed to be very strong. he plays talks about how tall mcarthur was. he was was under . it was just that he stood so tall and erect that he had this a bearing about him that just made people at a couple of inches to his actual height. the other thing that i will will remark about that is is that is not macarthur at his best. that is a speech of a man who at that point he is deeply disappointed. to really get a sense of where macarthur is in terms of his rhetorical power you really have to go back to his speech to the joint session of congress right after he returned from korea in which the house rose as a body over 50 times to applaud lines in the speech. that is of course the one that finishes with the famous old soldiers never die, they only fade away. so a soldier that has done his duty as he saw it. that is probably mcarthur at his best. but this is is an interesting clip for this

reason. this is a disappointed mcarthur. this is macarthur had hoped that speech at the joint session of congress would be propelling him to get into the white house and getting into the republican nomination and in fact he really got almost nowhere. he was strong by the taft and eisenhower forces. of course eisenhower 's's former chief of staff going back to the days in the philippines, the person he always looked down on his sort of a junior officer type protége ends up with the nomination instead.

>> host: did he support him? spee2 he does. he comes out in favor of that, up until the convention he took his ten delegates that he had when the convention sat. he was originally a taft supported. he was a little better about the way eisenhower handled the campaign and treated him. but i think after the election they become more reconciled. eisenhower reaches out to truman and asks his advice about how to end the korean war which looks like it's at the point of becoming one of the endless wars that we have gotten use to wars that we have gotten use to but it was a new experience for americans. so he was a disappointed man, he is a tired man, the rhetoric sounds in that clip sounds old fashion an old stage. the only thing that's interesting is that it's not not how we usually see macarthur. macarthur was someone who early on understood the importance of trademark look as a way to project leadership. >> like the cover on the book. the corncob pipe, which by the way he did not smoke. he actually preferred cigarettes and cigars. but because it was a trademark corncob was a trademark corncob pipe, which he personally designed as a matter fact, he knew that was the image. that is douglas macarthur. you see the corncob

pipe. the hat. the hat, the cap with the scrambled eggs on top and the ego which he designed himself as a matter fact. he had a haberdashery new york and park avenue which when he lost the hat it was wanted to have an exact copy sent to him. the letter jacket, the air force jacket that he would wear. the ray-ban sunglasses, all of these things are what it is that made douglas macarthur in icon. all of them very consciously worked on in his thinking about himself as a leader because he saw these as ways in which to communicate that sense of leadership that sense of confidence which inspired his troops from really the first world war all the way through the darkest days in korea. >> host: in this clip he mentioned his father, arthur macarthur. he point out in the book about how they're both in the military.

they both got a medal of honor, how did that happen? they're both generals. spee1. >> guest: the metal of honor that arthur macarthur earned was for his actions from chattanooga up lookout mountain. the civil war. you have to have to remember, he is 16 years old when he goes off to war. he becomes agitated of the 24th wisconsin, when you look at pictures of him, you kinda have a feeling of what you're looking at somebody who is dressed up for halloween as a union soldier. but that is him. that is the real arthur macarthur, he is a civil war hero, he is severely wounded several times and at the end of

the war he becomes lieutenant colonel and commands his regiment, the 24th wisconsin. he's not old enough to vote but he's old enough to command the union army regiment. after the war he had a choice of careers, he could have gone into politics, he could have gone into business, he politics, he could have gone into business, he was a wisconsin hero. instead, what he did was remain in the army and served on as i described in the book a series of john ford movie sets from films like fort apache and she wore a yellow ribbon where he goes and eventually brings his wife and his sons are all born there. his career is in many ways a pathway to douglas macarthur's and 11 of the things i wanted to do in this book was to make it clear for the first time just how much the linkage of how macarthur the sun and macarthur the father, how strong that link really was. most of them talk about the mother and i will talk about her in a minute. she is a very powerful figure in macarthur's life in macarthur's life until her death in 1935. but arthur macarthur is the person who teaches him about the arts of war, who teaches him

about the honor of service in the u.s. military, the u.s. army, and also the one who opens his eyes to america's possibilities as a great power in asia and becoming with that democracy and freedom in asia as the european colonial powers and empires fall apart. arthur macarthur was the trace of the philippine interaction. he is the one the figures out how to defeat the philippine at the end of the spanish-american war. and by rules manages to capture the philippine guerrilla leader. who he then signs a peace treaty within releases from prison. he begins the process of reconstruction of the philippines as military governor there. and there is a series of reforms in the philippines, one a spanish colony into the modern world and give it a rule of law,

sanitation and road service. he even writes a textbook on philippine history for his schoolkids. he is a master administrator as well as a brilliant military strategist. as i point out in the books, his son douglas then goes to japan to administer the occupation of postwar japan, everyone is amazed of his ability to pull the society together into make these important, even radical changes in some ways and to juggle all of the forces and all of the different ushered groups within japan and washington, and the other allies with such effortless skill. part of it is he learned all of this from his father. from. from his father's express and the philippine. >> host: you mentioned his mother's let's go there. did you send the book that he finished first at west point? >> guest: he was probably the finest record as cistern at west

point as anyone since robert e lee and a record in many ways still stands on challenge to the state. >> host: can you tell us i know fdr is another near him when he went to harvard, why doesn't douglas macarthur's mother moved to west point? >> guest: she moved there to help supervise his studies, she lived in a rooming house outside of the grounds of west point, there they are, that is young douglas there on the right and of course his mother, mary pink pick me harder. she became known as pinky. she looks for minimal formidable in that picture and she was. but when i started this book i was very much led by previous biographers of macarthur that think of her as this domineering woman, almost a kind of lady macbeth type and sort of pushing and propelling her son forward

in her career and she did push and propel them forward. but what i came to realize, the more i learned about their relationship and how it was built, you realize it wasn't the second thing she did at west point. she provided strong emotional support and guidance for him with the really tough decisions he had to make. throughout his life he conveys an image of a man who is totally certain of his self, completely in command, someone who is sure of every decision he makes and choices he makes and from west point on this is one of the characteristics that everybody noticed. but underneath he was very insecure, someone who needed support, filled with self-doubts, mary macarthur, his mom provided that support, he

would find it later on with his second wife with jean macarthur. but her role i came to realize more and more was really much more, very constructive, very helpful and i don't think he could have had the kind of career he did or achieve the kind of height and success in his career in army if she had not been there to support him and provide help and guidance. >> host: i hate to do this to you. >> guest: go ahead. >> host: short, quick points from the different periods in his life that so much to go into and you'll see how i want to do this, but what what did he do that was significant in world war i? >> guest: he did two things. one was what earned him, it should have earned him a medal of honor, nobody had any doubts about it was his incredible bravery and action. leading troops of the 42nd division, the rainbow division it was called and then commanding a combat brigade within that division. he wins seven silver stars in world war i.

>> what is that mean? a silver star simply means for exceptional bravery under fire. >> is a staff officer, he is someone who goes and leaves the troops. he says i have to go and see what's happening for myself. our guys are going up against and what the train is and what the enemy position look like. so he goes into action on a regular basis. several service silver stars and distinguish metals and nominated for medal of honor but, in the end general pershing says no, his incredible bravery with the ship fields goes without question, however if he had been killed then he would've got a medal of honor but he survives i think were going to skip the metal of honor this time around. but the second 1i want to stress this, as part of the general staff he helped to structure the american expeditionary force as it went over. he helped build the 42nd division as one of the first units to go over there and to organize which divisions for u.s. army that was not really

ready for this large-scale conventional warfare in europe. he wanted to mastermind the whole campaign, the whole putting together of the force that he leads in the war. so he's a a huge figure as a young major and brigadier general. >> host: what year did he go to europe and fight? >> the fall of 1917. the main action that he and the 42nd the 42nd division saw was in 1918. >> was he married then. >> guest: he was still single. he would've been in his 30s, he he wanted to be a brigadier general in his the 30. >> let's go to world war ii. >> host: was a major accomplishment. >> guest: for my standpoint it is that he manages to turn what look like a massive defeat in the philippines into a springboard victory. i mean it in this sense.

the philippines, to attack the same time as pearl harbor. a surprise attack that wipes out the b-17 force that macarthur and everybody else in the army and air force were going to defend those protect from japanese invasion. he's outclassed in terms of equipment and quality of soldiers, numbers of soldiers. for they can rely upon in the campaign, yet in the retreat, the baton baton he manages to fight the japanese to stand it stands still. he is pulled out from there by orders from franklin roosevelt, contrary to this macarthur did arrange to leave the philippines and the fortress that corregidor was he was held up with a handful of his staff. he intended to fight for the death, he assumed that was going to be his fate in the philippines but roosevelt for various reasons

orders him to go to australia. >> host: let me ask about the geography roles, the philippines are located near japan. >> host: macarthur understood it could be a springboard. >> host: who on the philippines in those days? >> guest: is still an american protectorate. and there corregidor is in manila bay, it overlooks the harbor. it had been built originally by the spanish and then re-fortified by the americans as a way to control into block japanese naval forces for seizing control. but the japanese did not bother with that, they came over. >> host: what about the -- >> host: that sticks out as an oversized tom just to the west of manila and sticks into manila bay.

that is where macarthur's army finally had to make its last in. >> guest: i don't. >> host: i know this is quick. the next step would be when he was in charge of japan after the war and effort for five years per what did he do their? >> guest: well they have very scant supplies of men and equipment and turned it into a marriage or victory, he took took over that right after he left corregidor in march of 1942. in three bloodied years of fighting in the guinea and solomons and then up to liberate the philippines. >> host: where is new guinea? >> guest: it is the second largest island in the world after australia it just sits north of australia. it was a jumping off place for the japanese for an invasion of australia to dominate that southwest pacific. >> host: how many troops were under his control?

>> guest: perhaps 5000 in the very early days. he commands perhaps the largest military force the united states have ever assembled the for the invasion of the philippines. then he was to be in the supreme command of all of the invasion forces at the island of japan for the final onslaught. for operation downfall. which doesn't happen because we drop atomic bombs. >> host: is a true that we did know that there were dropping the atomic bombs a. >> guest: learns about it through reading the stars and stripes newspaper. he he was aware that it had been developed but that it was going to be used and when it was going to be used, all of this was kept secret. >> host: what if he used a? >> guest: i think not. he felt that the bomb have this

tremendous potential to completely undermines, demoralize the japanese. he was more in favor of using it and demonstration ways as opposed to the dropping of it. for the rest of his life macarthur looked upon nuclear weapons as being really something that should mark the end of warfare as we know it was part of his campaign later on in his life towards unilateral disarmament. >> host: was he married and did he have children, where did his mother live at that point? spee2 he met his wife, explain in in the book is the first biography that had access. >> host: this was a. >> guest: this was jean macarthur. they met on the philippines when he went to assumed command of basically the philippine military mission that the united states had set up there to help the philippines uses self-defense force, basically an army that could be used to defend the islands for this is why he was headed out there.

his mother was with them, very ill at the time, i don't think it's coincidental that shortly after his mother dies, buried in the philippines, it's not so quince it and his friendship with jean, girlfriend tennessee, not far from where his father had fought during the civil war of the battle of the river where my great-grandfather fought. it is not coincidental that their friendship blossomed into romance land they return to the united states they had a secret agreement to marry the next time his back in the states. >> waited he divorced his first wife? >> guest: the divorce comes about 1927 or 1928. >> and why did they get divorced? i think he fell hopelessly and hopelessly in love she was enormously his first wife not

the film actress, she was very vivacious, shoes delightful company, very sexy, and she was enormously wealthy and i think she was irresistible to someone like macarthur. i think after the marriage they began to realize she was the wrong person. that his mother disapproved much of the marriage and who jean was finally able to step up and provide, while at the same time providing that same kind of a vivacious, outgoing, sexy personality that made her the

perfect companion for him as life, as mother, and as confidants. >> why did you have access to the oral histories of his wife? >> it is now at the macarthur memorial archives in norfolk virginia where he spent a good deal of time working on this book. it just had not been available. she had always promised to douglas that she would not do it oral history and they are said don't do that, our lives together private, the public record about myself is public, our lives together is private but just before she died a thing she realized it was important perhaps to ignore that promise and to carry forward with it. we with it. we are all very glad that she did. he dies and 64. >> she lives in -- she dies in 2002. you might want to check on the. >> host: how long did they live

at the waldorf-astoria? spee2 they live? >> guest: they live there to his death in 1964. i'm not entirely clear about how long she continued to live at the waldorf-astoria by herself. but her son is a new york city, arthur mcarthur. the waldorf-astoria apartment was a place that was for him not just a refuge but also a watchtower where you could keep track of current events including the american president. it was a place together the moment does from his years in japan. everything else of his earlier life had all been destroyed during the recapture of manila during world war ii. everything had gone gone up in smoke and hotel manila. he is a man who a couple of times basically had to rebuild his life, rebuild the mementos, the favorite things around him and his family several times. >> host: there are remarkable

things about him. >> this is someone who is knockdown and beaten down so many times in his career where he could have been written off as being somebody who is at the end of the career, it's the end of his usefulness to america yet he always comes back. it's an extra nurse story. >> host: the next steps, japan and how long was he in japan and what kind of power did he have after the war was over? >> guest: he was empowered by the other allies and by president truman to basically do what he wanted in order to reconstruct japan. he did it with success that i think even his most severe critics today who have gone over his record with a fine tooth comb looking for any kind of far serious mistakes. i think even his most severe critics give him high marks for what he was able to do with japan.

take a country which was a broken nation, devastated by war, demoralize by defeat, with a cloud hanging over it because of the way in which it behaved during the war treating chinese and allied pows. it was a country whose reputation was in tatters and he manages to rebuild the economy, rebuild its restore a sense of pride, give it a new democratic constitution come the same when they have today and really bring japan into integrated into the family of industrialized democracies of which we are apart in europe. . .

>> to build that kind of confidence, and build those kind of modern institutions, but you have to give him credit for the way in which he was able to do this in the face of intense opposition. >> what else did you find that was new? >> well, there was lot of material that has to do with macarthur's war in korea. that's next. that comes out of soviet and

former soviet and chinese archives. i also think this is a biography which has taken full account of the degree to which allied intelligence, u.s. intelligence play he had such a vital role in the successes. the degree to which being able to do it, and then, army codes, was able to provide him with the means by which to outsmart and, outguess his japanese opponents on the battlefield. >> the first two biographyers, and, james didn't know about any of this. they were unaware, to the agree to which they provided this information to mcarthur.

and his other biographer talks about it, but, this is a biography, you can see its gyre al impact, and gives a whole new perspective, not just as mcartur, but the importance of good intelligence. >> where do you live now? >> we live in washington, dc, senior fellow. >> this book is what number. >> this is number 8 of my books. since how the scotts invented the modern world was number one. >> was that the number 1 bestseller? >> it was never -- number one, but it was 'new york times' bestseller. sold well other a half-a-million copies. it's a book which i am proud, and it's one which i think, it was a good one to start on the direction.

>> when you are writing a book like this, when was the last day you spent writing this book? >> oh, gosh. >> nine months ago. ten months ago. >> yeah, probably about right. for the manuscript and the whole process of galleys, and, adding new materials, and things like that. >> have you gone to the next book. yes. do you want to know? the new book which, i will be doing, with harper collins, who published my, my history of the british navy. the new book is on woodrow wilson, lennon, and the year that shook the world. 1917. why that year, word war one, and, what they did.

woodrow wilson, and then, lennon, to topple the government that had taken over in saint peters burg and to install a government instead. how those two events have ricocheted through and shaped the modern history. that's the next book. >> it will be shorter than this one. >> moving to the next war, this is video na people have seen. it's harry truman relieving general mcarthur of his duties. >> i have thought long and hard about this question. i have discussed it many times with military advisers, i believe that the course we are following is the best course. a number of events have made it evident that general mcarthur did not agree.

i have therefore consider ted's sen shall to relief him so there would be no doubt as to the real purpose of our policy. it is with the deepest personal regret that i found myself compelled to take this action. he is one of the greatest commanders. but the cause the world peace is much more important than any individual. >> what happened? >> this is one of those moments, when, you begin to realize that the clash of personalities, is as important of collision of events. the fact of the matter is, neither mcarthur had come to develop a strong dislike of harry truman. and that's number one. even though one was president and the

other one was given the power, of u.n. forces of a north korea invaded south corey a. mcarthur believed that the way in which to end this conflict, as he began the process of pushing back up the peninsula, after chinese intervention he begins the process, pushing back up, reliberating south korea again, second time. that's a landmark, the highlight of mcarthur's military career was that landing, on the peninsula that really shattered north korea's ability to conduct a war.

mcarthur and general ridgeway pushed the chinese back, approached the 38th parallel, he wanted to end with a victory. we'll defeat not just north korea but the chinese forces and we have to take the necessary steps, bombing and perhaps the use of nuclear weapons, as to means to create it so the chinese cannot resupply their armies. famous statement, there is no substitute for victory the truman administration disagreed. they thought stalemate. to return u.n. forces and an allow north korea and the clean

niece to remain in place. mcarthur was outspoken about why he felt this kind of approach the war would be a a mistake. and, his hands were were tied t. and, this was what he did. he sounds off to reporters. but, for truman this became moment in which he had to decide whether he was going to be able to continue and have someone whm embrace a stalemate strategy and keep his mouth shut. >> did he answer directly to the president or did he have to go to the joint chiefs. >> joint chiefs.

all of his moves, in korea, for which he faces intense criticism,. >> the fact is the joint chiefs and more, from a military point of view seemed unimpeachable. but from a political standpoint, there was a feeling that, the push for war might, with china might do two things. it would force the european allies to drop out. they didn't want to see a war that could be continuing up beyond the 30th parallel. but it might trigger a response from the russians, and stalin, who might, seeing his chinese ali, might launch an offensive

in europe which, is where they were poised. >> how many american troops are still on the 38th parallel? >> 400,000 u.n. -- >> now? >> about 28,000. >> well the war hasn't ended. there still hasn't been a peace treaty. we're still, there's into the peace treaty. so, he dismissed these ideas. he believed that china could be defeated. there may be good reasons to believe he could have done that. he believed stalin would not have intervened. we know that also was true. >> how did we find that out? >> through the archives. stalin thought it was botched, almost from the beginning. he was given a guarantee by the north korean dictator, that, if

north korea invaded with chinese help, americans wouldn't intervene they did. and stalin was like this is your problem. but, truman had to make a call. did he do the right thing? it was necessary to remove mcarthur? i guess probably it was. was it right policy? i think history may have to have a different judgment. history is dotted by what we calls in blunders. i think the firing of dug you douglas mcarthur, and, the stalemate, might just fit into that. >> so he came home and we've been through the first and second world war, the japan experience, and, caribbean war and he's back here. i want to go to the chapter that

brings a lot of him together, in one chapter. it's called saving f.d.r. >> oh, yes, that's interesting. >> i want to read back to you what you wrote. >> roosevelt's own assessment -- was more nuance despite his most danger -- he calls in the most dangerous man. he revealed his true thinking, to one of his economic advice source. quote -- i have known doug for years. you have never heard him talk. he has the most for ten husband is style. he talks in a voice that might come from an error a kel's cave, and never doubts and he makes pronouncements, and what he thinks is final.

what does that tell us about the relationship between f.d.r. and general mcarthur? >> this is at point in which mcarthur holds the highest post in the u.s. army. he's chief of staff. and he had just gone flew a debacle called the bonus army march. it was as public relations disaster for the hoover administration, in which army troops were used to out of world war ii veterans, who wanted payment of the bonuses they were promised. >> they had set up tent city, refused to go when ordered, when the bonus was voted down, and

and mcarthur showed up, to basically supervise the operation. and, it was ugly. it was an ugly series of riots and people were killed. a big propaganda campaign was launched by the communist supporters, to paint him as this fresh shift, and the march etcetera. if the great depression didn't sink his chance of re-election, this sank them. so the question came up, whether f.d.r. was going to keep him on. everybody assumed that he would be fired.

f.d.r. is a liberal democrat. but, in fact, roosevelt was smart. he realized that mcarthur was somebody who despite these characteristics of his, this sense of infallibleility to standards, who could be useful, a some -- a support to his administration. the interesting cooperation that arose after he became president. the conservative and liberal become partners. >> that wasn't when he was in

the oval office and this s. >> for the third and last time in my life mcarthur confessed that nausea began to creep over me. and then this paragraph, as the feeling of discomfort grew, and he's sitting there with f.d.r., he grew more reckless, this is general mcarthur, when we lose the next war, speaking in the voice usually reserved for been will a cal prophets, and, american boy lying in the blood, and an enna 34eu foot spits out his last curse i want the name to be roosevelt not mcarthur. and then f.d.r. says you must not talk that way to the president of the united states. what is that all about?

>> budget cuts to to the u.s. a. it was slashed by hoover, had made serious acts. he fought against those and roosevelt had further cuts, and, so that is roosevelt, the secretary of war, and mcarthur fighting it out over the implications of these budget cuts. how crippled would the u.s. army be? >> where are they from. >> from his own account. >> this line i just vomit oath steps of the white house, was the way he described many years later. >> this is interesting. because these are memoirs he

writes just before his death and talking about, exposing that aspect of human weakness. those insecurities, that sense of self-doubt, that feeling of being overwhelmed, at certain moments that would come to him. this is an example of that kind of thing. this is mcarthur realizing, what he has just done could end his career and also, a feeling that, this is a situation, in which, although he had to speaking out. he had to take the strong position this was not from a position of strength but weakness.

there's other things named isabel. mother, there's a major eisenhower, who's a top aid. just hard to put together that the stage. thinking that, he was an aid, and a low level -- army officer, to mcarthur, and talk about isabelle and -- >> mcarthur, everybody is junior to him. even in world war ii, there's no one tolls choose from.

he had command experience fighting against the japanese and he's just about the only one who has seen military combat. >> the reason i bring that. >> that's important. >> why he is able to speak with this kind of olympian you see command. here because everybody else has been, they're all latecomers to the army career. >> but, isabel, dimples. >> that was an actress who he met when he returned to the philippines, and there she is. >> just the sort of thing to keep the attention after army officer, recently divorced. >> he is invisibly monnothing go must.

they had a very, even though she's a couple of decades younger, than he is, they have a very close relationship -- >> he met her when she was 16. >> it's definitely a may december or november romance and he is so taken, he arranges for they're come to the united states and to be in washington, dc, while he's army chief of staff. she has an apartment. when we moved to washington, dc, we looked for apartments there. i didn't know that it was a -- >> historical landmark. >> home of dimples cooper. the point about this is, it was

romantic, and it soon fell apart as he realized she was someone who, however attractive, she was really much too young and shallow for him. it did not end well. she tries to get involved in films and has all kinds of problems. >> i'm watching the clock, because we have such little time left. >> drew pearson gets in, his ex-wife, what's all that about? >> she's very bitter, the first wife, the one, wealthy, and, that marriage had fallen apart. she was happy to spread all kinds of nasty gossip about him and about his sexual prowess or lack there of as a husband. and, the real issue, that was at hand was, about, whether there

was going to -- about a liable suit. about, about isabel cooper came back in an odd way. very, very complicated story, brought a liable suit. they arranged for a settlement and he arranged for those letters to be buried forever, in the archives of one of drew pearson's attorneys. i got those letters. they are pretty torrid. really quite something. we have to say that mcarthur, you read those letters, and the letters that he wrote to his first wife, and you have to say,

that not only was mcarthur a great military commander and great statesman, as we see during his time, in japan, he's a master of erotic prose, in ways that are striking. chairman of the subcommittee that dealt with war and, he got involved, and, he didn't like him. they had enormous conflicts about money. over questions about which branch of the army should get the kind of support that was necessary. he was absolutely certain, in times of, it's a good lesson, you keep it spread equally across the different receives, and, collins, add fixation on the question of mechanic niased warfare and felt that the money

should be put into that. >> bad feelings. >> and, he was going like the affair. he knew the affair. hehe knew he would publish it. >> how did it fall in. >> i want to run, before we close, just one last clip. this is more of what he was saying, in 1952, let's run that. >> our people, are desperate for a plan which will provide hope and restore faith as they see the tax levy upon every source of revenue. as they see the rising public debt, mortgaging the industry and the well being, of our

children and our children's children, there is no plan, and no desire to regain economic and fiscal stability. no prospect of return to the ideallism and tranquility of our fathers. >> that was only 64 years ago. >> isn't that something. >> children, they're here and gone. [laughter] >> so, what do you think,. >> well, it was, he was an incredible speech and debt and public spending, and how that becomes a way in which you morgan a -- >> hanging over us for the last couple of decades. people asked me what he would be like as president? he would have been a lot like

eisenhower. he believed the federal government had a strong role to play. >> he probably would have approved of that. he foresaw that the growth of the welfare state be something that politicians, and, they might not be able to control. it could be a run-away train that america would face and that's one of the things, about him, that you have to say, he saw the future, more clearly than he saw the present. whether it was america's role in issue a sharks the rise of china, and the split between china and the soviet union, but also perhaps, too, the fate of domestic politics. >> i can hear the people, and ad the veterans, screaming that we didn't goat anything on the war.

but, this is a 927 page book. but, arthur herman has been our guest. american warrior, it's been a final list for the pulitzer prize. thank four joining us

welfare >> then cass sunstein talks about history, politics and the movie star wars. the book is "the world according to star wars". and then eric bowling of fox news on his book, wake up america. after that new yorker journal t journalist. >> host: the author here is boston globe reporter, malcolm gay. mr. gaha