into the areas where nobody goes unless you live there. every vietnamese, rich or poor between the fact that the word. not every logout effect by the word. most of the bomb in effect to one third to one half of the population. the other half didn't seem to know very much about what went on and they were shocked when my husband and i drop back photographs of the bombing that we've witnessed in 1978.

they were shocked. congress held constant hearings about the bombing as well. and then a series after that up and donate and 75. until we opened up the pow and mia issue and then the u.s. congress begins to take interest in onyx voted ordinance because after all he can't you can't go into these areas without winning a area first because you don't want your own personnel to be her. congress holds continually hearing on the bombing in this

brave since may 1066 in vietnam. there is not much said about laos until 71. the first wave of refugees will come here from vietnam who sided with the u.s. and the award. they talk a lot about the war. they were followed by economic refugees. the refugees who came from laos, they were the cia guerrilla troops primarily in the beginning and later the second wave is economic. or what you find is a lot of the people, the first way they knew about the war, and a second wave of refugees, they didn't know

much about the war. they didn't talk about this brain and the bombing. there were mostly coming from the mekong river areas. and so, we don't get the discussion about the bombing and this brain. so these are the differences we see. these are the perilously found in various areas. these could be gasoline barrels. they could also be agent orange barrels. we don't know for sure. but they were used for a collection of water. this was taken in 2014. 2015. now, war has brought many, many

problems in the postwar era and one of the most important things for me that i question when they came here to sheet ws why don't we talk more about the postwar consequences because it usually takes between 20 and up to 40 years to recover from serious warfare. just ask any european who lived through world war ii. we have to have mechanisms to help each other recover. we made a list of issues that we think the united state could think of how for goodwill measures. we really want to ensure that humanitarian assistance gets to disabled persons in the former

wartime were signs that were sprayed as follows on because these are the areas of high poverty. so that is one area where we could increase our good well is at simple legislation words could be inserted into the current legislation for humanitarian assistance to include the sprayed areas and then the babies that the disabilities of land, which were not caused by bombs, but by congenital birth defects could be addressed. so we are trying to push now that the 27th team -- 2017 bell for humanitarian assistance and laos would address the and the southern reaches that would

definitely sprayed and maybe having the consequences of that. vietnam's assistance includes the sprayed the dims. it is a simple wording. another issue is we want to urge the u.s. to increase support to special facilities that would assist these children and adult with the defects in their area. for these people to travel to the capital with the best hospitals are as very, very difficult. for lack of about $20, yen spare

and could never take her to live in the district hospital, which was not too far away. about three crossing of nature streams and six small streamlet. that is what it would take. but her mother has tuberculosis and her father is 65 years old and getting week. so she never saw a doctor until she whispered teen years old. there is hardly anything bear permit even at the district level the hospitals are very modest and very understaffed and for sure but not be able to

operate on some of these severe difficulties, but at least they could send them on further. the u.s. could also partly investigate old cia thesis and i'll post for polluting residues that need to be cleaned up and remediation, addressed the remediation if it's needed. creative landing spots all around the laos. the sound believable when you go into a village and talk about this is to be the old american landing spot. and it's way out in the middle of remote areas where there is a village i'll around it. and for sure they sprayed by

hand around this kind of out pose when they aren't being used. the u.s. could take part in cooperative action with vietnam and laos and the u.s. scientific community on cleaning up old pollute including back then. there is a step forward at this. ambassador ted osha's who is cynthia tom is very interested in this idea of pulling together vietnamese, lao and u.s. teams to come together and talk further about how to be part of about addressing some of these issues. we hope that it's going to come forward in the near future.

i've just received word that the lab would like to make a study mission with the senior people to look at how vietnam has been addressing agent orange dioxin with the united states at this time. so that is a totally new opening that we've gotten in the past week. the u.s. could reclassify the record as susan was talking about on the u.s. were inside laos and especially the agent orange dioxin spraying or use because those spots at the areas that we really need to investigate whether there are messages sent by paolini to

provide humanitarian assistance. so one day i came out of my house and yen was staying there temporarily because we were awaiting the dock or to operate on her -- dr. to operate on her. she now had one foot fixed. she could stand on it. but she can't quite walk because the other foot as a work right. it is played like a chicken leg.

so we are waiting for dr., maybe attended this year, and may be the beginning of next year to come back again to operate. he's a british doctor who is going to try and help her. there are many more and we would like to help them. but we've got to have the data. we've got to hopefully raise this issue a little bit more so america doesn't do this again. thank you. [applause] >> lab. thank you very much, suzanne and jackie. this is very thought provoking

and heart again presentation that gives us insight to what it really takes to get to the bottom of these issues. it is not just looking for that data and archive. it's getting into the villages. it is talking to people. it is hearing from them but they can tell us about their lives before and after the war. thank you very much. if i could start over, i'm sure we'll have lots of questions for you. to add to your list to your listed same may, given we are here at the university, it strikes me that one of the really good use of our development assistance would be to training scientists,

epidemiologists and people who can look at those barrels and tell you whether in fact there is dioxin's insiders have denounced. could that be perhaps added to your wish list of what the u.s. government could do as a way and the post-conflict time. >> allow people are very different in one major aspect in terms of education. and it seemed 78, when my husband and i first went to work in densely allow cynthia tom, we noted that the number of people who had even graduated from high

school, only 5% in the entire country. this is 1978 and the entire population has only 5% who graduated from high school. the number of those who had gone to university with about 1.5% to 2%. you compare that with vietnam, where you had numerous people who had achieved university education and had even phd's. so they are in great need of further advance educational opportunities and particularly in the deep sciences of epidemiology. i believe we have one

epidemiologist in the entire country at this point and he is brand-new. one. we need also people versed in science so they can under the end of the process of dioxin gets into the human chain. suzanne, perhaps you could say something about that. that is something that always intrigues people. where does it live. >> yap, dioxin is not water soluble. so it is stored in the fax. they can adhere to soil particles and the fish and animals grazing in that town

would ingest the dioxin chemical particles into their body and it would be stored in the. so when does animals i written by humans, that dayak said gets stored in the human body. they moved dayak sent from your body is to breast-feed. women who are breast-feeding will transmit that dioxin to the fatty aspects of their milk to their infinite. the reason the u.s. government is spending millions of dollars is testing was done in a population that surrounded that they fear people fishing on the base, had high levels of dioxin in my blood.

it is part of the chemical process that was created during the manufacturing herbicide. eight to 10 parts per trillion. they were finding vietnamese who lived around this dioxin hotspot led hundreds of parts per trillion in their blood. it was proven that former base of years later after the war was causing impact on the population who are eating the animals raised on that case. but they add one other story. this is a story about the united states. we have a major dioxin contamination issue in a place called timed speech.

this area. a small town a couple thousand people. they wanted to tear for is to be paid with what we call a chip and seal up in this area. i live in this area so i am base. after having this done, they started having been thoroughly wolof racer says have collapsed and died. the epa was called into figured out what was going on and says there is dioxin in the sources. the only place they can figure out was to track her, which they ran which has been paved with the chip and seal. then they started checking out the roads in this timed speech

area were checked out. then they started checking out the kids and they found the kids in the school had 200 part per trillion. this was 1983. you can go up on youtube, google timed speech and learn all about it. most missourians know about it. but not much if the united states does. would have been to those people? i asked an epa official. he says that's a good question. i don't know what followed. so far i haven't had an answer yet. i would like to know if they had children that had these problems so we had it here as well.

where did that dioxin come from? the manufacturing of agent orange. several tourists around st. louis that were making it. the vanguard residue from the factories and that is how it came into the environment. it is a very, very fascinating story and 30 minute video will tell you the story more deeply. >> we can open it up for questions and comments. >> vietnam was such a public thing. >> that's a very good question. i've never been able to get an answer from a u.s. official involved in that accent it was

supposed to be the true according to an agreement signed in 1861. and several actors trying to get into the act. and then the united states. the united states and the dead rat after the french were defeated non-and then laos became independent. so it is polite, and the united states wants to influence the laos and gradually build -- built up a secret force. they were looking for guerrilla

soldiers. all of those ethnic groups participated in some degree in it, but not the entire groups. you cannot say all ethnic people thought with the cia. it's totally incorrect. the created a secret military because of the neutrality agreement. they didn't want to admit that it was really going on. when people flew in. that the cia flew in to longchain airbase, they never went through pyongyang because it was a restaurant that area.

so their operations were kept very, very quiet undercover. in the pbs film called american experiences, there was one whole series on vietnam and one portion of that is laos and cambodia. there is an excellent discussion and not film about how this occurs and what takes place. we were afraid that china was going to be a player and would then come down and swoop down and take over much of southeast asia. i don't think china had the desire or the ambition to do that at that point. frankly right now they are doing an amazing takeover tour

investments and it's shocking to everybody. it is distressing in some ways because there is a lot of difficult things happening inside various countries. >> bioassay kept secret? >> congress didn't approve if my memory serves. one of the reasons we went in is to interrupt the flow of supplies in the ho chi minh trail. >> cap, but that comes later. we were already forming a secret army in 1861-62. the war in vietnam begins in 65.

the bombing of laos begins five-month before the bombing >> there was also the incursion of the troops secretly. the actual american troops went in. >> dallas in 1971, but there weren't a lot of troops in uniform. they were always in civilian draft. [inaudible] >> what year was it? >> april 71. >> that was a terrible

situation. >> you don't know why you're going in, but i was told it was to interrupt the supplies of the ho chi minh trail. that was the military reason. >> it was a disastrous undertaking for the vietnamese that when ms file. it is a terrible battle that hasn't been recorded very well. that is in one of the areas we are working in. >> why is it that there is so much resistance to acknowledging agent orange has acknowledged obvious consequences? >> that's a good question as well. i mean, you could say part of it is financial. taking responsibility for not just those in vietnam have

congenital deformities that may be caused by agent orange. the war in laos and cambodia also are pouring but disabilities, deformities. a new group started about three or four years ago called the children of vietnam veteran health alliance, primarily a facebook group that there are now i don't know what the number is, but there's several thousand children of editor and were part of this group who are sharing a devout but types of health issues they are facing today and their children are facing today at the va does not acknowledge was so after other than if you had spina bifida. the other is a financial question and also the evidence,

we have it in animal studies, which you can't inject a human. it has become the excuse to do nothing say there is no scientific proof that this is causing problems in humans. but there is no scientific proof that it isn't. the iom that comes up with the list of conditions that the va looks at to determine what the benefit, and the diseases be receiving benefits, they only look at resisting studies. they look at what has been done and then they determined where they find evidence of association. the rare birth defects, there is no research that you could make

that connection clearly as well. they tend to rely on the lack of scientific evidence so it must not be. >> if it is largely financial driven, i saw one of the slides that said there is compensation for service to be a noun. what is the difference on the financial consequence if there is compensation for service in via non, but not for a link to agent orange? >> well, for those conditions, birth effects among children of female veterans, only nurses who were serving in the country. spina bifida, it is hard to get out of the va the real details of how much money is going to spina bifida or to a veteran

with parkinson's like my father had. they don't break down their records that way. it is hard to know those numbers. vietnam era veterans have so much money going towards the population. but it's not broken down by condition. each time they find another condition that they believe is associated. think stroke was added fairly recently. another heart condition was added. hypertension was added. you are talking about a population of 3 million veterans who served. i don't know how many are alive today. they are in their 60s and 70s. my father was in his 80s when he died. chances are a lot of them -- part of it is financial, but

also, the va is careful to say people who talk about why veterans in america to fit as opposed to vietnamese at the same condition. we are going to support our veterans but that doesn't mean we will go and do the same in a country that was our former enemy. so if there is a use of poison gas in world war i and i believe there was some rules of war. how do these fit into the scheme of things against all war. if you are going to fight a war, how is this supposed to be able to use of civilian populations and mentalities, can you answer

that? >> outcome of that has been the big question for any lawsuits filed in the united states by veteran in may 2004 the vietnamese filed a lawsuit against the chemical companies about wasn't this a war crime? the courts have ruled that dioxin induced herbicide was actually a byproduct. it wasn't supposed to be there. it was created when the chemical companies produce particularly 2452, one of the components of agency orange. there was a lot of rainbow colors. they have very high temperatures on the chemical is was created

during the manufacturing process. it was a supposed -- it wasn't supposed to be in there and the chemical companies did not do anything to reduce. doubt was the only chemical company that did reduce the byproduct. they were much more sloppy in their manufacturing. the courts ruled the herbicides were not used as a poison. you cannot use poison. they were targeted at humans. they weren't targeted to kill. therefore it wasn't a war crime. the u.s. has signed on to a protocol that provided first use

of chemicals in water against colombia and. >> by the way -- [inaudible] >> i was in laos. i like to think this gentleman. he may be the first person in my knowledge to ever publicly say he was on the ground in uniform in laos. the secrecy around laos, which jackie and died in so many others in jackie and her husband roger were with a group called international voluntary

services, which was a priest cursor by several years to the peace corps. we spoke lao, ate their food and we loved the lao. we loved the people and their culture. one of the thing that escapes the public knowledge is the secrecy around laos. for example, today the vietnam war memorial to my knowledge has no single person who's identified. i believe they were somewhere.

it was held in detroit in the night teen 60s and then a second investigation were recently where men testified under oath in public on film to the fact that they were in laos henry kissinger when he signed the geneva agreement that you can go and see the paper that he signed both in the national archives in the war museum in hanoi, vietnam. he didn't actually sign it. he goes hk. and so, maybe it is fair to say the u.s. didn't sign the peace agreement. of course there are other

personnel that did. william sullivan is one of the key players. i think the secrecy around the war in laos, that's what it was, where it was mentioned in the early slide to a more ordinance was strapped down last then combined in all the history of warfare. if you measure in terms of per capita, the lao population before the war, which was said to be in the 5 million to 6 million after the war -- >> 2 million during the war and then at 6.5 now.

>> the people have suffered tremendously from award that it's not known. >> i remember a few weeks ago that the first -- the medal of honor i believe they went to a federated that he was awarded the congressional medal of honor for surveys in battle. it was the first time. he was a medic in the eighth on in and saved. it was the first time, 40 something years later that he was honored. before that he couldn't even say that he was there and he has saved many, many lives of his fellow soldiers during that effort. it was very hard.

you have to get introduced, introduced, introduced. i always have to say my father was a veteran so i'm coming at this from an army brat perspective and you have to lay your credentials out before you get the first store opened to talk to one of these veterans. now they are starting to write memoirs, that they've held on to the secret, many to their graves. the >> my sister-in-law didn't know her has been had and in laos until six months before he died. his children didn't know it either. at that point he was suffering from alzheimer's and he couldn't

remember much. i had the task with my head and still alive at that time to explain to them what happened and why they didn't know. he had only confided in my house and then i end it was a very painful, painful event for him. >> which brings up the point if you are a veteran who had boots on the ground in vietnam, you automatically qualified for va benefits in those conditions the va acknowledges. if you are in thailand, it is a much harder -- you have to prove exposure. you have to prove that you were in an area. i imagined and i haven't heard from them but they are many of

his air america and those that went into vietnam, went into laos that had parkinson's, that may have diabetes or other conditions that a veteran from the vietnam era was fair for one hour would qualify for, but they can't because they can't improve they are exposed where they are. there are many better things i believe who are not receiving the assistance from our government that they should. never mind the loud that we are trying to get help for her, too. >> please introduce yourself.

[inaudible] >> i would like to add the date to this issue. in the south, the area [inaudible] agent orange. i used to travel and during that time, this brain of agent orange because they travel along at night. the ho chi minh trial by the human labor. i was surprised altogether.

during the time i was told to travel during the rainy season and during that time. so sometimes works to one decision. [inaudible] five years ago i was fair and thought it is very difficult to get to that area, even the

province, miles from the town to get through that area. they are very, very low educated. i was surprised that the people. my question is what can be done. >> it is going to take both the lao government asking for assistance in the u.s. government was bonding.

now why hasn't the lao government asked? is it because they thought it was gone. it's 40 years ago. they didn't have the science to realize this was an ongoing problem. in 1999-2000, my husband and i began a small effort to educate some persons in the ministry of health including the vice minister of health about this issue. we took them then to a conference in vietnam. three individuals that went with me sponsored by the u.s. government. it was the first time these

young doctors have ever heard about the consequences. these are the most highly educated people at that time, the date didn't know. subsequently, there's been no follow-up until this work by the legacy project, which is why i decided in my retirement this is what i was going to do. i was going to make this an issue. i could tell you that it took us over 20 years to bring to the table, that not only would allow asked for it, but the u.s. would respond. when we first mentioned it as an issue in 1979 here in

washington, it was like it was in homage that much. really? we had to show photos and lots of proof before people began to realize the depth of our main and that why i say please don't call it a sideshow. it is the most heavily bombed country in the history of the world per capita. it is not a sideshow. it is sprayed with tremendous amounts of chemicals come the summer which we don't even know what they are. the unexploded ordnance teams are finding weapons that they can't identify and there are people when they going to fuse them have been seriously injured. we invite visited with one of those young women, a young woman working for five years and she

does not receive assistance today and yet you can still see the burn marks on her entire body. something exploded and burned her very badly and no one could explain what it was. to this day. that happened in the year 2000. to this day we don't know what kind of weapons. there is a definite need for cooperation and i am very pleased to see that vietnam has a lot of scientists is now able to assist the lao and understand more the data behind this and the consequences.

it also has to participate in this as a goodwill gesture. >> these areas are very remote. the herbicides were sprayed on the ho chi minh trail are very remote these stories that we are taking crossing river after river to get to in the dry season in a four-wheel drive truck is the only way you can get there. we have to get the stories and the information. that information is not coming out. it is not very well educated. ethnic minority populations that

don't have the ability to let people know what some of the problems are. as jackie said of the 20-dollar bus fare, they don't live on a cash economy. they do not have the cash to even buy the bus ticket. so that is the number one of the problems this information is not getting. the area is heavily sprayed our regard -- remote. other organizations working in laos primarily have been focused and nor, other areas. they are not working, but not in the areas along the ho chi minh trail. they are just not providing programs they are. more funding and support of the u.s. government.

>> it's a very difficult problem because the roads have only been to start did in the past four or five years they've begun to preach some of those areas and still there are many villages. we have to wait for a very specific time when the weather is dry. it is that difficult. otherwise you are slogging in mud up to here. he makes some of those road still are we see the rocks in this tones placed. >> any other comments or questions? i think this has suddenly been an enlightening session and has

given out the kind of in-depth understanding of why the true consequences of a declared war, a secret war, any kind of war as local populations. essentially a whole research agenda for many of our students here as well as anyone who wishes to really get to the basis that these issues so that more change can happen and that kind of assistance actually targeted and brought to bear these populations. so please join me in thanking suzanne and jackie for their outstanding presentations.

i would also like to thank enta. i would also like to thank barry m. greenberg in assisting during the session together as both are friends from c-span. >> one thing i forgot to add in the beginning is done of this work we could do without the financial support and laos were received support from green cross international, which is a base in switzerland actually started by gorbachev after a day at chernobyl incident after he retired and it addresses toxic around the world. we receive support to help children through the year of giving generously, which is another path to ibs because the father of the woman who is running this fund in honor of her mother who just passed away, died in laos.

also the foundation is supportive of our work as well and without them i would not have been able to afford the plane to come down here. so thank you good >> much of our work is based on volunteerism. susan's salary is not a lot. i am a volunteer and i do not receive any salary for this sort, but they do help me when i am in country to help me pay bui am in country to help me pay for travel. our country program person, she also works on a volunteer basis and she is very, very committed to this and receives phone calls

from various people up until midnight sometimes calling to see if their child should be able to go to get examined by a doctor and it's a very rewarding piece of our work. but the most important thing i think we have to do is think about what our government needs to move forward on is the entire vietnam laos cambodia scene. if anybody's interested in cambodia, there are three that were also affect did right agent orange dioxins and does still have not been investigated. make a good research paper.

>> thank you all for coming. with that we will close. thank you.

.. hyatt hotels talked about a learning challenge called learn

storm. this is half an hour. >> hi, everybody. my name is campbell brown. i am the cofounder and editor-in-chief of the 74 that non-profit news sight that covers education this year and i hope you check it out. i will introduce a couple of people that need no introduction, certainly not to this room. sal khan is the creator of khan academy. mark hoplamazian is the president and ceo of hyatt. we'll talk about something that they're partnering together on. we have a video to show you in just a second. before we do that one of you start off to explain a little bit what learn storm is. >> y'all are familiar with khan academy.

we're not-for-profit. people often associate us primarily with these videos we have as part of khan academy. but we also have interactive exercise platform where students learn at their own pace and standard skills. what we realize, we need to think more how we get a broader segment of students engaged in this and broader segment of teachers engaged in it where they personalize learning and focus on mind-set and grit and things we hear about. so we piloted this thing called learn storm in the bay area, for lack of better word, learning challenged, schools, teachers, students, participate and they are rewarded not just for achievements in math but they're awarded for showing grit, perseverance. how do you measure that? we can see a student working on khan academy what level they're at, challenging themselves, maybe most importantly how

regularly they use it. if they get something wrong, do they keep up or -- give up or keep going. that is resilience. we started that in the bay area hoping to get 1% of eligible students, third through 12th grade participating. we got close to 10% participating. a large segment, majority came from free and reduced lunch schools and we saw more really high fidelity personalized enblended learning implementation we have seen in the past four or five years. that pilot we did with google. this year, we said can we expand it to more geographies. chicago was really interesting to us. it was really urban and there is the chicago public school system and surrounding areas. we connected with mark and we saw a lot of kindred energy around that. so we did learn storm this year