>> when the vice president talks about someone associated with al qaeda in iraq there are 60 how countries who have members of al qaeda in them. how many of those countries are we going toiran h invade? not only that, he talks about iran, the reality of that iran is that they have move forward with their nuclear weapons program on their watch.work they evaded responsibility to dealing with it to the europeans. the vice vice president, as you pointed outft spoke out loudly to lifting sanctions. john kerry and i believe we would stretch and the sanctions in iraq, including closing the loophole that allows companies to use a subsidiary's

to do business with iraq.d it i this is relevant, he was pushing the sanctions and lifting the sanctions when he is messes why we didn't think he should have a ceo of halliburton. they pay millions of dollars in fines for providing false information on w those. they did business with libya and iran, two sworn enemies of the united states. they are now under investigation for having bribed foreign officials duringl that period of time, not only that, they have gotten seven and have billion-dollar no-bid contract in iraq and instead of part of their money being withheld which is the way it is normally done, they continue to get their money. >> mr. vice president? >> i like to respond but it's going to take within 30 seconds' >> well that's all you've got.

>> well the reason they keep mentioning halliburton's because because they're trying to throw up a smokescreen. they know the charges are false and they know that if you go for example to fact checks.com, you can get the specific details with respects to halliburton. it's an effort they made repeatedly to try to confuse the voters and to raise questions but there is no substance to the charges. >> these are the facts. the facts are that the vice president company that that he was ceo of, they did this with us or anatomy of the united states, paid millions of dollars of fines for providing false financial information. they're

under investigation for bribing foreign officials. the same company that got a seven and half billion no-bid contract,ty. the rule is that part of the money is supposed to be withheld when they're under investigation as they are now for having overcharge the american taxpayer that they're giving every dime of their money. i'm happy to let voters make their own decisions. >> as we wrap up i want to talk to about the israeli palestinian conflict. today, a senior member was killed in gaza, the suicide bomber targeted associations, mortar attacks, all of this continuing at a time when the united states seems absence and he's making process. wh what would your administration do? do you agree that the united states is absent, maybe you don't. but what would your administration do to try to resolve the conflict? >> first of all, i do agree that we have been largely absent. not entirely absent but largely absent in the process over the last four years. let me just a couple of of pulmonary things to talk about where we are now. first, the israeli people not only has the right to do defend themselves, they should defend themselves. they have an obligation to defend themselves. now if i can just tell your personal story.

i was in jerusalem a couple of years ago, actually 33 years ago in august 2001 staying at thee king david hotel. we left in the morning, headed to the airport to leave and later in the day i found out that that same day, not far far from where we were staying up pizza was hit by a suicide bomber in jerusalem. fifteen people were killed. six children were killed. isr one of what are these israelise people supposed to do? out can they continue to watch israeli children killed by suicide bombs, killed by terrorist? they have not only the right but the obligation to defend themselves. now, we know know that the primt minister has made a decision, a historic decision to unilaterally withdraw from gaza. it's important for america to participate in helping with that

process. if gaza is being used as a platform for attacking theopped israeli people emma that has to be stopped in israel has a right to defend itself. they don't have a partner for peace right now. they surely don't have a partner in arafat and they need a legitimate partner for peace. and i might add its important for america to crack down on the saudis who have not had a public prosecution for financing terrorism since 9/11. it's amportant for for america to confront the situation in iran because iran is an enormous threat to israeli and israeli people. >> and mr. vice president. >> i would like to go back to the last comment that i will go back to the israel palestine.ck the reason they keep trying to

attack halliburton is because they want to obscure their own record. and senator you have a record in the senate which is not distinguished. you have missed 33 to 36 meetings on your committee,, 70% of the meetings in the intelligence committee. you've missed key votes on tax policy, energy, medical reform, your hometown newspaper is taken to calling you senator gone. you have one of the worst attendance records senator gone. you have one of the worst attendance records in the united states senate. now as vice president and i am the president of the senate and the presiding officer, i'm with the senate when they're in session, the first the first time i ever met youh wh was inn he walked on stage tonight. in in respect to israel and palestine, the suicide bombers in part regenerated by saddam hussein who pay $25000 to the families of suicide bombers. i personally think one of the reasons we do not have as many suicide attacks today and receive real as we have in the past is because saddam is no longer in business. we have been strong supporters, the president step forward andw put in place a policy, basically that said we will support the establishment of two states. the first president ever to say that we are going to support a

state next to the israelis. first there has to be oppressed to deal that we don't have that and we don't have that and there has to be reform in the palestinian system.i know >> senator edwards it is your term. >> there is a complete distortion my record. the vice president of surprised to hear him talk about records. when he was one of 435 members of 435t members of the united states house he was one of ten to vote against headstart. one of afford to vote against banning plasticc weapons that can pass through medical metal distractors. he voted against the department of education. he voted against voting for meals on wheels for seniors. he voted against a holiday for martin luther king. he voted against a resolution calling for the release of nelson mandela in south africa. it is amazing to criticize even my record are john kerry. >> 32nd.

>> i think his record speaks for itself and frankly it is a very distinguished. >> in the case will move onto domestic matters. this question i believe goes to vice president cheney. the census bureau -- i just asked him against israel even though he didn't actually talk about it much.e >> i did talk about it, he wanted to talk about. >> vice president, the census bureau ranked cleveland as the biggest poor city in the country, 31% jobless rate.l do o you two gentlemen are well off, you did well for yourselves in the private sector. what can you tell the people of cleveland and the people of cities like cleveland that your administration will do to better their lives?th >> when, there are severaln things that i think need to be done and are being done.lost ove we have looked at the over section and aftermath of 9/11 where we've lost over million jobs after that attack, we think we think the key is to address and the president is working on.

probably the most successful thing we can do in respect to any poverty is to get people job. there is no better antidote tota ending power poverty then allowing some to take care of their own family. to do that we need to make america the best place in the world to do business. that means we have to deal effectively with tax policy, we have to reduce the litigation cost that is built into our society, we have to provide adequate medical care and make certain that we can, in fact create the opportunities that are vital for that process. iser went particularly on education. i think the most important thing we can do is have a first-class public schooo system and the president, his first legislative priority it was the no child behind act, his first piece of legislation we hundred east we got past that for summer on a bipartisan basis. we even had ted kennedy

on board for the effort. it does several things. it establishes high standards. at the same time it sets up a system of testing with respect to our school system so we can establish a relationship with parents and make certain they understand how well their students are doing and they have the opportunity to move students at a poorly performing schools to good schools. it struck me that is absolutely what needs to be done for education. it is also important as we go forward in the next term we want to be able to take what we have done for elementary education and move it into the secondary education. it is working, we have seen reports now and a reduction in the achievement gap between the majority of students and minority students and we are making significant progress. >> senator edwards, you have 90 seconds.

>> your question was about jobs? >> it was about jobs and poverty. >> i thought it was about jobs and poverty. i hope we get a chance to talk about education but that's what the vice president talked about. here's what's happened. in the time that they have been in office in the last four years 1.6 million private-sector jobs have been lost. 2.7 million manufacturing f mess have been lost and it has had real consequences in place a likely one. cleveland is wonderful, distinguished city that has done a lot of great things but it has the highest poverty rate in the country. one and two and two children invi cleveland are now living in poverty. during the time that the vice president and the president have been in office, 4,000,000 4 million more americans have phone into poverty. it was one of the most i can a startling things that there the first presidency in 70 years, talking democrat, republican, presidencies that let us through world war, through the korean war, the korean war, the vietnam war, cold war, everyone created jobs. the l this president. we have to do better. we have a plan. we are going to get rid of tax -- by the way, therefore outsourcing jobs per the fundamental difference with us

the administration says over and over that the outsourcing of millions of american jobs is good, we are against it. we want to get rid of tax cuts for his company sending jobs overseas. we have to balance the job it and get back to fiscal responsibility and we want to invest in the creative, innovative jobs of the future. >> mr. vice president. >> we have 111,000,000 tax papers that have 11 million tax papers that have benefited from our tax cuts. we have students that have benefited from no child left behind, 40 million seniors who have benefited from the reform of the medicare system. the democrats promise prescription drug benefits forso th years, they won on that platform another got it done, the president got it done. we also dropped 5,000,000 people totally off the federal income tax roll so they no longer have to to pay to take pay any federal income tax at all.amily

so the story is a good one. the data he is using is old data. it is from 2003. it does not include any of the gains we have made in the last years that we have added 1,700,000 jobs to the economy. >> 32nd. >> the vice president president likes to talk about their expanse of the campaign trail, millions of people have lost their jobs. millions of people have lost their jobs. millions have fallen into poverty. the family incomes are down while the cost of everything is going up, medical cost is one of the highest it has been over the last four years.inpt thaat we have this mess in iraq. mr. vice president, i don't think the country can take four more years of the same experience. >> the next question goes to you, senator edwards. senator harry said in the interview that he will not raisr taxes on anyone under 200,000 dallas per year. how can he guarantee that and also cut the deficit in half as he is promise? >> because we'll do the what they have not done. if you look at what is happeneda over the last four years, we have gone from atrilli 5 trillion-dollar projected surplus when george bush took office to a 3 trillion-dollar deficit per they promised they would put 2 trillion in the surplus inside for socialal security, not done. not only not only that but the biggest physical turnaround in americana

history and there is no end in sight. the washington post justal reported they have severaloral e trillion dollars of additional tax put cuts and spendings. no suggestion what they're going to do about it. john kerry and i believe that we have a moralldr. responsibility not to leave trillions of dollars of debt to our children and our grandchildren. so here's what we are going to do, to answer your question. to pay for the things that we believe need to be donea and i hope to get the chance to talk about healthcare and education because we had plans on both of those subjects. what we are going to do is roll back tax cuts and i want everybody to hear this because there has been exaggerations ont the campaign trail. back tax cuts for people who make over 200,000 hours per hours per year. we will do that.to we want to keep the tax cuts in place for those who make over

$2000 per year and give tax cuts to middle-class families, tax cuts for healthcare, tax cuts to help families pay for college tuition. tax cuts for childcare. pms are struggling and hurting and they meet need more tax relief not less. but take get us back on the path of a balanced budget we also want to get rid of some of the beer cat expended to washington. one of the amazing things isor that they have actually laid on more supervisory people,'s people at's people at the supervisory level in thisspeop government. i we also want to close corporate loopholes. i will be honest with people, we cannot eliminate this deficit. people have heard that over and over and in four years we cannot do it. we are in too a deep a hole. but we can cut the deficit in half and we can move this country back on the path of fiscal responsibility. >> you have 90 seconds mr. vice president. >> when the carry record on taxes is one basically voting for a large number of taxt increases, 90 times in the united states senate, there's a fundamental philosophical difference between thethem t president, of what they need to

keep more of what they earn ten have more control of the lines. now they want to basically raise taxes and give government more control we think it's the wrong way to go there's a fundamental difference of opinion here. they talk about the top bracket and going after only those people in the top bracket. the back to the matter is that a great that a great number of our small businesses pay taxes under the personal income tax rather thann the corporate rate. about 900,000 small businesses will be had if you do in fact do what they want to do with the top bracket. that is not smart because seven out of ten jobs are created by small businesses and you don't want to tax them. a bad idea to increase the burden on those folks. the senator himself said during the course of the primaries that his plan would drive us deeperai into debt. the fact of the

matter is the president and ic will go far to make the tax cuts and that's what we ought to do but we will also drive the deficit down 50% over the course of the next five years. >> 30 seconds. >> we have committed to cutting back anything in our programs that need to be cap back to get back on the path of fiscal responsibility. john kerry hasn't voted or cosponsored over 600 times that for tax cuts of the american people. over 600 times. there is a philosophical difference between us and them. we are for more tax. we are for more tax cuts for the middle class then they have been for the last four years. we are not for more tax cuts for multimillionaires, they are. it is a fundamental difference in what we think needs to be done in the country. >> you have a 32nd. >> yesterday the president signed an extension of tax cuts and the ten the 10% bracket, the marriage penalty relief in a child tax record. >> next question goes to mr. viceit president.

i want to read something he said four years ago at this very setting. freedom means freedom for everybody. you said it again recently when you are asked about legalizing same-sex unions and you used your family as anr. experience. your family experience as a context for your remark. can you describe then your administration support for constitutional ban on same-sex union? >> when, you are right. four years ago and this debatear the subject came up and i saidem then, and believe today that freedom doesn't mean freedom for everybody. people ought to be free to choose any arrangement they want and it is nobody else's business. that's a separate question from the issue of whether or not government should sanction or approve, orll get some sort of authorization if you will to these relationships. traditionally that has been an issue for the states. the states the states have regulated marriage if you will. that would be my preference. in effect what has happened is t

in recent months, especially massachusetts, but also california, but in, but in massachusetts we had the massachusetts supreme court directed legislator massachusetts to modify its constitution to allow gay marriage. ma the fact is that the president felt that it was important it to make it clear that is the wrong way to go is fine as he is concerned. he sets policy of this administration and i support the presidents. >> senator edwards, 90 seconds. >> let you say first on an issue that the vice president and last answer before you get to this question. he was talking about tax policy. the country needs to know that under what they have put in under what they have put in place and want to put in place, a millionaire swimming back collecting their statements seen how much money they're making. make their money from dividend, it pays a lower tax rate than the men and women who are receiving paychecks for serving on the ground in iraq.q.nd now, they may think that iscou

right, john kerry and i do not. we do not just valley wealth which they do. we valued work in this country. it is a fundamental value a fundamental value difference between them and us. let me say first that i think the vice president love their daughter, i think they love hern very much. you cannot have everything but respect for the fact that theyaa are willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter, the fact that they embrace or is a wonderful thing. there are millions of parents like that who love their children, who children, who wand their children to be happy.

i believe that marriage is between a man and a woman and so does john carey, i also believe there should be partnership benefits for gay and lesbian couples and long-term, committed relationships but we should not use the constitution to divide this country. no state for the last 200 years has ever had to recognize another states marriage. this is using the constitution is a pinnacle tool and it is wrong.i >> a new question, but the same subject. as the vice president mention, john kerry comes from the state of massachusetts which carey comes from the state of massachusetts which is taking it's a biggest step in the union to legalize gay marriage, yet both you and senator kerry say you oppose a, are you trying to have it both ways? >> no, think we're both said the same thing all along. we both believe in this goes to the end of what i talked about, we both believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. but wet ma also believe that gay and lesbian couples, those who who have been in long-term relationships deserve to be treated respectfully, theyo deserve to have benefits for example a gay couple now has a very difficult time one visiting the other when they are in the hospital. or for example if, heaven forbid

one would pass away, the have che trouble arranging the funeral. those are not the kind of things that john kerry and i believe inches i suspect the vice president himself does not believe in that. but, we do believe that marriage should be between a man and a caman. i want to go back if i can about to the question you just asked, which is the constitutional amendment. want to make sure people understand that the president proposing a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage that is completely unnecessary. under the law of this country for the last 200 years no statee has been required to recognize

another states marriage. so my state of north carolina would not be required to recognize a marriage for massachusetts. what you just asked about. there's absolutely no purpose in the law and in reality for this amendment. it's nothing but a political - back and see beauty used to divide this country on an issue that we should not be divided america on. we ought to be talking about issues like health care and jobs, what is happening in iraq. not using an issue that divides this country in aat pp. way that is solely r political purposes is wrong. >> mr. vice president, your 90 seconds. >> gwen, let me simply think the senator and what he said about my family and our daughter. me i appreciate that very much. >> we will move on to the next question. president bush has talked about putting a trial lawyer on the ticket.a you said that lawsuits aree, partly to blame for higher medical costs. are you going to say that john edwards sitting here here has been part of the problem? [laughter]ot >> well, gwen. >> mr. vice president. >> well for well first of all i'm not familiar with his cases.

my concern is specifically with what is happened to her medical care system because of rising malpractice insurance rates, because we fear to adequately fare former liability. i was in new mexico the other day and met with a group of ob/gyn doctors. they were deeply concerned because they were fearful that there would be another increase in malpractice insurance ratesct as a result of what they believe are frivolous lawsuits and that would put them out of business.e one dr. indicated that her rates have gone up so much that she is now to the point where she is screening patients. she will not take high risk patients anymore because of the danger that it will generate a lawsuit and mywsuit to put her out of business. this is had a devastating impact in many communities. my home state of wyoming has lost the top insurer,

malpractice insurance in the state, the rates for a general practitioner have gone from 40,000 dollars per year to 100,000 dollars per year for insurance policy. it's had a devastating impact on the quality of healthcare that high-risk patients don't get covered anymore. we have lost covered anymore. we have lost one out of 11 ob/gyn practitioners in the country. we think it can be and needs to be fixed. specifically what what we need to do is cap noneconomic damages and we also think we limit the awards that the trial attorneys take out of all this.rne over 50% of the settlements go to attorneys for administrative overhead. we pass medical liability reforms through the

house of representatives. it has been blocked ever since. senator kerry has voted ten times against medical liability reform and i do not believe senator edward supports it either. not the kind that would be meaningful. >> let me say first of all that i'm proud of the work idea and on behalf of kids and families against big insurance companies, big drug companies and big hmos. we do have too many lawsuits. the reality is that there is something we can do about it.. t john kerry and i have a plan to do something about it. we. we want to put more responsibility on the lawyers. to require the malpractice, have it reviewed by independent experts who determine if it's serious and can be filed. hold the lawyers responsible for that, certify that and hold the lawyer financially responsible if they do not do it. w have a three strikes you're out role. so that the lawyer who files three of these cases without meeting the requirement loses the right to file the cases. that way we keep the cases out t of the system that don't belong in the system. the talk about frivolous cases, we believe cases that don't believe in the system should never be in the system. but we don't believe that we should take away the right of people like valerie who was a younger letter represented, five years old and severely injured for life when a defective swimming pool drain cover, it

turns out the company new of 12 other children who had either been killed or severely injured by the same problem or they hit it and didn't tell anybody. they couldn't fix it it with a 2-cent screw. that is wrong. john kerry and i are always going to stay with the valerie's of the world and not with the insurance companies. >> senator. >> senator edwards, a new question two, sameme topic. do you feel personally attacked when vice president cheney talkn about liability reform and tort reform in the present talksc about have been a trial lawyer on the ticket? >> and i personally attacked? i think the truth is that what they are doing is talking about an issue that really doesn't have a great deal to do with what is happening with medical policy in the country. i think that is a very serious issue. i would be the first to say that the vice president described a r few minutes ago problems of

malpractice premiums, that is true and real. it is very real. doctors talk about it very seriously and they are getting squeezed from both the sides. they have trouble getting reimbursed for the care that they provide, from the government orralma healthcare pr provider or healthcare company. on the flipside, there malpractice costs are going up. that is why we have proposed a plan to keep cases out of the system that you not blowing there. it is very important to put this in context. because in context everything they are proposing according to the bipartisan congressional budget office amounts to about half of 1% of healthcare costs in this country. half of 1%.mium we have double-digit inflation in healthcare costs. we received the largest rise of medical costs in the last four years in the country's history, $3500 nationally. nobody his watching this debate needs me to explain it to them, they know. it to them, they know. medicare premiums are up 17% on their watch. again, the largest increase in medicare premiums in the history of medicare.sest we think we have a plan to keep

cases that dump long in the system now, but we also do what they haven't done, 5,000,000 americans have lost healthcare coverage, medical costs skyrocketing, we have a serious healthcare kate plan to bring down costs for everybody. it will cover millions more americans and stand up to drug companies and insurance companies which this administration has been unwilling to do. >> mr. vice president? bad >> we think lawsuit abuse is a serious problem in this country. we think we badly need tort reform. i was in minnesota when i visited an aircraft manufacturing plant, great success story. great success story. illustrated 20 years ago and hen told me that if it were not form the increased cost of his liability insurance, in this case product liability he could hire 200 more people for his factory.res we built into the system enormous cost as a result of our

practice with respect to litigation. we have to get a handle on it. you mention medicare up 17 percent, somehow that was something we cause, no. the 17% increase in medicare premiums was the direct result of a statute adopted 1997, john kerry voted for it. it established a formula part d medicare that says it has to cover 25% of the cost of program and the reason the money had of program and the reason the money had to go in for the trust fund was to make certain that we could cover those eligible for benefits. while you were private practice as a senator you had a vantage of a special tax loophole, and that is set up to avoid paying $600,000 in medicare taxes that would go into the fun. it's those loopholes thatles necessitate a premium increase under the law that was enacted in 1997, supported by john

kerry. >> you have 30 seconds. >> first while i paid all the taxes that i/o. when the vice president was ceo of halliburton they took advantage of every offshore loophole available. they had multiple offshore companies that were avoiding taxes. those are the kind of things we ought to be closed. they should be close to anybody. they should be closed when their personal and they should be closed whether they apply to a corporation. but, the reality is that healthcare costs are goingd up everyday for the american people. i hope we get a chance to talk more about healthcare. >> 30 seconds mr. vice president. >> we done a lot to reduce the3 cost of healthcare,. >> we help the drug discount card that's now available for senior citizens. we are moving in areas that we can to make certain we hold down a reduce

the healthcare costs. b >> will talk to about healthcare, two minutes. in particular, talked about aids. not aids aids. not aids in china or africa but right here in this country. were blacks between the age of 25240 for 13 times more likely to die of the disease than their counterparts. what should the government's role be in helping to end the growth of this epidemic? >> this is a great tragedy when you think about the enormous cost here in the united states of the aids epidemic, pandemic. millions of lives lost. millions more infected and facing a bleak future. in some parts of the world we have an entire productivepro generation has been eliminated as a result. nobody to do the basic work that runs in economy. the president has has been deeply concerned about it.s he has moved and proposed and

gone through the congress authorization for $15 billion to help in the international effort to be targeted in those places where we need to do everything we can through a combination of education as well as providingfi medicines that will help people control the infection. in the united states we made significant gains. i've not heard of those numbers in respect african-american women. i have was not aware of that they're such an app adamic there because we have made progress in terms of the overall rate of aids infection. i think primarily through a combination of education and public awareness as well as the development as a result ofhey a research and drugs to allow people to live longer lives in though they are infected. we need to do more that. >> first with respect to what's happening in african russia and

other places around the world, vice president spoke about the 15,000,000,000 dollars for aids john kerry and i believe that needs to be double. i might add the first year their commitment they came up short of what they had promised. we'll have a little bit it to talk about africa. the aids epidemic in africa which is killing millions of people and is a frightening thing, not just with people of africa but also for the rest of the world, that combined with the genocide that we are not seen in sudan are two huge moral issues for the united states of america. john kerry spoke about it eloquently last thursday night. here at home we need to do much more. the vice president spoke about doing research and making sure we have the drugs available making sure we do whatever is possible to have prevention.ell it's a bigger question than that.heal we have 5,000,000 americans who lost healthcare coverage in the

last four years. 45 million americans without health care coverage. we have children without health care coverage. if kids and adults don't have access to preventative care, if they're not getting the helpposb they need day after day, theg possibility of not only developing aids and having a problem, but the threat of developing others. life-threatening diseases is there every day of the life. >> okay. this this goes to senator edwards for two minutes. can men and women have been nominated from their party since 1976 to be vice president, out of 10, you have the least governmental experience. what qualifies to experience. what qualifies you to be a heartbeat away? t american people want, and their president and in the vice president, basically three things. they they want to know that their president and vice president will keep them safe. they want to know that they hav.

good judgment. they want to know that you are telling the truth. john kerry and i will tell the american people the truth. during the time i have served in the intelligence committee in the senate, traveling to some of the places we talked about tonight, afghanistan, pakistan, middle east, turkey, meeting with leaders of nato, i have a very clear idea of what has to be done to keep the country safe. the threats we face, terrorism,p killing terrorists and stopping them before they do damage to us, making sure we stop the spread of nuclear weapons, ic agree with john kerry on thursday night, the danger of the nuclear weapon getting in hands of terrorists is a great threat that america faces. the the one thing that we know from this administration, first of all i don't claim to have the

long political resume that vice president cheney has. that's the truth and the merc and people know that you deserve to that. what we know from this administration is that along resume does not make for good judgment.ty here the judgments i would make my first priority would be to they the country safe. i would find terrace where they are and stop them and kill them before they do harm to us. we would stop the spread of nuclean weapons.training we would also strengthen us military. it means means providing the equipment and training they need, we want to raise that active-duty forces to 40,000, double special forces so we can find terrace where they are and provide the support for families, healthcare, housing, that they deserve while their loved ones are serving and protecting us. >> mr. vice president you have 92nd. >> you want to answer a question on his qualifications?

i think the important thing in picking vice president probably varies from president tov president. different presidents approach in different ways. when george bush asked me to sign up and i wasn't because he was worried about carrying the vote in miami. although those three electoral votes turn to be pretty import the last time around. he said he wanted me to do was sign on because of my experience to be a member of the team and help them govern.d that is exactly the way he hasn used me. i think from the perspective of the nation it has worked in ouro relationship and in this administration it's worse in part because i don't have political aspirations myself. i think that it's been an advantage. my only agenda is his agenda.

i'm not worried about the people are thinking of me in respect to the next round of caucuses in re08. it is a very significant responsibility when you consider at a moments notice you might have to take over as president of the united states and make all these decisions. it's happened a a few times in history and that's a great consideration when you are looking at taking picking outke. vice president. >> i think the most part thing i've learned is what i now know about john carey. i know him before but i know him better now. the one candidate who is head led troops and battle. he was a prosecutor to put people behind bars, a well with john mccain to vietnam to find out what happened to our pows. the american people suffer ourselves on thursday night the strength, result, backbone that

i have seen in john carey. he is is ready to be commander-in-chief. >> mr. vice president you have 32nd. >> i clearly believe george w. bush would be a better commander-in-chief and he has done it for four years. without question he has had conviction,t division, determination to win this war against terror. he understand it's a it's a global conflict that reaches from theaa united states all the way around the globe. in those qualities are vital and a a commander of chief and i think the president has been and i'm not at all convinced his opponent does. >> mr. vice president picking up on that you both just saying us that raises of the tops of your tickets without mentioning them by name at all. explain to us why you are different from your opponent?m >> i am different from johni edwards.don in some respects probably more similarities than differences. our personal story. i don't talk about my very much

but i have heard senator edwards and i listen to him and i find m similarities to my grandfather never went to high school and on the first of my family who went to college. p i have been laid off, i've been hospitalized without health insurance, so i have some idea of the problems that people encounter. i think the personal stories are in some respect surprisingly similar.si in respect to how we have spent our careers i honestly made a choice for public service. i've been at it for a long time now except for those times whens we lost elections.olut i'm absolutely convinced that

the threat we face now, the idea of the terrorist in one of our cities with a nuclear weapon is very real and that we have to use extraordinary measures to deal with it. i feel very strongly that the significance of 9/11 cannot be underestimated. it forces us to think in new ways about strategy, national, national security, how we structure forces and how we use u.s. military power. some people say we should wait t until we are attacked before we use force. i would argue that we have already been attacked. we. we lost more people on 9/11 thae we have what real harbor. i'm a strong advocate of going after the terrorist. >> senator edwards 92nd. >> we were attacked but not by saddam hussein. one thing that john kerry and a would agree with you about is that. >> you just use john kerry's name. >> one thing that we agree about

is the need to be offensive inbe going after terrorism. the best defense is a good offense. so america returning to his proud tradition of the last 75 years will once again lead strong coalition so we can get at these terrace cells where they are before they we can do damage to us and to the american people. john kerry make clear on thursday night. >> i'm sorry you broke it again. we make clear on thursday night that we would do that and we will do it aggressively. but, there are things that we need to be done to keep our country safe that haven't been done. for. for example three years after 9/11 we find out the administration still doesn't have a unified terroristo watchlist. it's amazing, amazing, three years, what are we waiting for? we still don't have one list that everyone can work off of to see if terrorists are entering this country? we are screening passengerst

goingwe onto airplanes but we don't screen the cargo. there are so many things that could be done to keep this country safe. you you have to be strong and you have to be aggressive but we also have to be smart. there are things that have not been done that need to be done to keep the making people safe. >> would you like to respond question asked. >> this goes to senator edwards. flip flopping has been a recurring theme in the campaignn senator kerry changed his mind about whether to vote to authorize the president to go to war, president bush changed his ided about whether homeland security department was a good idea or the 9/11 commission was a good idea. what is is wrong with a little flip-flop of renown the?-- >> well, first first let me say that john kerry has has beenn completely consistent about

iraq. he is made very clear from the beginning and not an afterthought. we set it at the time that we had to confront saddam hussein and we had to have a coalition and a plan to be successful. the vice president and say much about it than the earlier question but paul brammer has now make clear they didn't have enough troopsan and they didn't have a plan. american people are seen the results of that everyday despite the root courageous service of our men and women in uniform. now, flip-flops, they should know something about flip-flops. they have seen a lot of it during their administration. they were first against the 9/11 commission and then for it. they were for the department ofo homeland security and against the department of homeland security. then therefor. they said they're going to put 2,000,000,000,000 dollars of trillion dollars of the surplus when they came into office aside to protect socialo security. then they change their mind. they said that they supported the troops and then while our troops are on the ground in that

iraq and afghanistan, they went to congress and lobby to have their combat pay cut. they said they were going to do something about health care inme this country. they have done something, they have made it worse. fund they said they were going to fund their no child left behind, $27 billion short today. over and over thisin administration has had one thing and then another. this president said, i, listen to him the othe' night and the debate say i amm for a national patient's bill of rights. i know something about this, mccain, senator kenny and i know about it, we don't have thee patient's bill of rights because of one man today.. the president of the united states. that gone back and forth. >> mr. vice president? >> i can think of a lot of words to describe senator kerry's position position in iraq, consistent is not one of them. i think if you look at theotin

record for voting for sending the troops and then voting against the resources they need when they got there and then saying i actually voted for the 87,000,000,000 before he voted against it, saying in response to question knowing what i know now, yes i would've cast the same boat and then shortly after saying wrong war, wrong place, wrong time. consistency doesn't come to mind as i consider that record.ng and the question of troops is interesting and important. the we look to our commanders on the ground in iraq for guidance on what they need. if they need more troops they will ask us. the key is not to try to solve the problems in iraq by putting a more american troops. the key, is to get the iraqis to take on the responsibility for their own security. that is what we're doing. if what we are doing. if you put american troops in their in large numbers and don't

get the iraqis in the fight you will postpone the day when you can bring our boys home. it is a vital we deal with need for additional troops by putting iraqis in the effort. and 49% increase increase in funding for elementary and secondary education and not no child left behind is a lot of money even by massachusetts standards.th >> you have 30 seconds if you choose. >> but they didn't from the mandates that they put on the schools on this country. that's the reason 800 teachers have been laid off right here ia cleveland. one third of our public schools are failing under this administration. half of african-americans are dropping out of high school.. half of hispanic americans are dropping out of high school. john and i have a clear plan to improve our public schools. it starts with getting our best teachers into the schools wherei we need them the most by creating a place for them to go there. >> no child left behind a word

for it and now against it, they would afford an outpost of a. we are making significant progress. we are closing the achievement gap in the results coming in show without question that inn math and science, math andnd reading, that affect our minority students are doinghe ma better and the gap between them and the majority population is in fact closing.reside so we are doing exactly the right thing. they are the ones have been for the patriot act and against it, for no child left behind left behind and then against it. >> mr. vice president, i'm sorry, you have 30 secondsed senator edward. >> we are for accountability and we are for high standards. john and i voted for no child that behind because we felt accountability and standardsst were the right thing to do. but -- did you forgot your will and fairness if you want to go. >> i do, i apologize apologizezn for giving you next or 15 seconds.seconds. whichever one of you is elected

in november, you mention thell electoral votes in wyoming and how critical they are and it's a sign that you are going tot inherit a very deeply divided electorate, economically and politically. how do you set out to no way that you are not able to the past four years to bridg that divide? >> i will say it is a disappointment of the last four years that we have not been able to do with the presidency in texas when he wanted to reach across the island bring democrats along in major issues of the day. we had success earlier. i think no child left behind when we in fact had broad bipartisan support. we had a lot of support for the patriot actually pass that on a bipartisan basis. were nesting objections to that by the other side.thi all i know is to continue to try to work it. it is a disappointment in a

sense that i remember from my earlier service one things workt differently. when in fact some of my best friends of the congress were people i work tom foley who is the majority leader, one of my strongest allies in congress the secretary of defense was chairman of the defense appropriations subcommittee. we use to be able to do more together on a bipartisan basis than seems possible the states. i'm not sure exactly why. i think in part it might be a change in the majority, minority status in the house and senate has been difficult for both sides to adjust to. the senate has been evenly divided, 5050 and then 4950, i think its import for us to try. i believe it's essential for us to do everything we can to garner

support from the other side of the aisle. we've had support in our keynote address in our convention was delivered by john miller. so there are some democrats and hopefully in the second term we'll see improvement. >> senator edward c of 92nd. >> at the prep. >> the president said he would unite this country. a uniter not a divider. have you ever seen american more divided? have you ever seen washington more divided? the reality as it is not an accident. it's a direct a direct result of the choices they made in their efforts that have created division in america. i want to go back to the issue of healthcare. we touched up but i think the american people deserve to know what we would do different. 5,000,000 people losing their healthcare for everyone watches the snow that health insurance premiums are through the roof. we need to talk about what we'll do that they haven't done first.

we will make the same health care available to congress available to all americans. we will cover all kids. we will bring down costs by pooling the catastrophic cost so we bring down premiums, and we get tax breaks strictly to families and save them a to to $1000 per year, and businesses.g so they can provide healthcare to their employees. we are also going to finally do something about the cost of prescriptionon drugs.ow i we are going to alloww prescription drugs from canada. they would not allow the government is negotiating power to get discounts for seniors, we're going to allow it. were also went to stand up to the drug companies and do something about the drug company as on television which are out of control. >> 30 seconds to respond mr. vice president. >> while gwen, i don't know where to start. the fact of the matter is most

important and significant change in healthcare in the last seven years was the medicare reform. the most sweeping change in 40 years, medicare used to pay for heart bypass surgery but not prescription drugs, the fact is when it came up senator kerry and senator edwards voted against it to provide prescription drug benefits to 40,000,000 senior citizens. citizens. it's a very significant piece of legislation. >> they hadio a choice on allowg prescription drugs into this country from canada and being with them american people are the drug companies. they are with the drug companies. they had a choice on negotiating discounts being with the american people or with the drug companies. they were with the drug companies. they had to a choice on the patient's bill of rights allow b people to make their own health care decision and not having insurance company's make them, they were with the insurancece john companies. john kerry and i will always

fight for the american people. . >> has a great go to closingng statements, two minutes each and president edwards you will begin. >> thank you gwen a thank you vice president for being here. when i was young growing up i remember coming down the step into the kitchen early in the morning and i would see the glow of the television. i was in my father sitting at the table and he was in pain bills and doing paperwork from work, what he was doing was learning math on television. now he didn't have a college education, but he was doing what he could do to get a better job where he was. i was proud of it. i'm still proud of him. i was also hopeful because iwh knew that i lived in a country where i could get a college education. here's the truth, i have grown up in the bright light of ligh america.nt

but that light is flickeringng today. nine nine oh that the vice president and the president don't see it, but you do. youg see it when you're incomes are going down the cost of everything, college tuition, healthcare, is going through the roof. you see it when you sit at your table each night and there's an empty chair because a loved on his serving in iraq or afghanistan. what they're going to give use for my years of the same. john kerry and i believe that we can do better. we believe in a strong middle class in this country. that's why we have a plan to create jobs. get rid of tax cuts for companies outsourcing your jobs. give tax cuts for those who keep jobs in america. so we have health we have healthcare plan and a plan to keep you safe and to fix this mess in iraq. the truth is every four years to get to decide, you have the ability to decide where america is going to go.

john kerry and i are asking you to give us the power to fight for you. to fight to keep that dream in america that i saw as a young man, a lifer every parent sitting at that kitchen table.on >> vice president cheney. >> going, i want to thank you. it's been a privilege to serve as your vice president the last four years and worked alongsidew president bush to put our economy in an upward path. we've cut taxes, cut taxes, at a 1,700,000 new jobs and will continue to provide opportunities for workers. we won't be happy until every american who wants to work has c american who wants to work as a job. we believe all americans should have access to medical care when they should have access to the finest schools in the world. we'll do it we can to sip preserves social security make sure it's there for future generations. i worked for four presidents and i know there is no such thing as a routine day in the oval office.

we saw 9/11 that the next decision president has to make can affect the lives of all of us. no we find yourselves in thi midst of a conflict unlike any c we have ever known. faced with the possibility that terrace could small goal of deadly agent into one of our own cities. that thread in the presidential leadership needed to deal with it is putting a special responsibility on you who will decide on november 2 who will be our commander-in-chief. wh the only viable option for winning the war on terrorism is on the president has chosen. to use the power of the united states and aggressively go after the terrorists wherever we find them. also to hold the two account the an states that support terrace. now that we we have captured and killed thousands of al qaeda it's important to stand up to democratically elected dem governments. this is the task of our

generation. i know firsthand firsthand the strength the president brings to it. the overall outcome will depend upon the ability of the american people and the strong leadership of the president to meet all of the challenges we will face in the days and years ahead. i'm confident we can do it. >> with that we come to the end of the debate. on behalf on behalf of the commission and thn candidates, i would want to say thank you to the students and administration at case western university. the second presidential debate takes place friday at washington university is a lowe's, missouri. child gibson of abc news will serve as moderator while the candidates will field questions from an audience. that on october 13 from arizona state university in tempe, arizona, bob schaffer of cbs news will moderate a debate on debate on domestic issues. for now, thank you vice president cheney and senator edwards. from cleveland, ohio.

thank you and good night. [applause] >> c-span, created by american cable television companies about you as a public service from your cable or satellite provider. >> we will take you life from farmville company virginia, longbilled university the side of the vice presidential debate in the 2016 campaign between senator tim kaine and republican candidate, indiana governor, mike pence. tonight's moderator is elaine quijano of cbs news.