>> and. >>

>> as she continued on the track. it isn't likely they get a lot from paris to london to

rome. but the exciting work is when it comes from places people have to look on a map to find. >> said this is the cutting edge american foreign policy >> so let's conclude one on this note but where the

turnover of the depth of expertise has left the field i wish as some point the next industry show would consider pulling somebody from the ranks for putting somebody in the leadership role from that. >> will put this up at this time it is awful and any

student of foreign policy and practitioner is not only informative but it is fascinating. but what i've learned from the book thank you so much for your contribution. [inaudible conversations] and.

>> i am the vice president of the program here it is my great pleasure to welcome you to deny its author talk who will be discussing the just published book true believer. as you will soon hear there are aspects from the tragic and compelling story cow this subject went from being the idealistic harvard graduate to the hard-core unrepentant stalinist to the lessons we can draw as we

researched and wrote this book right from where we're sitting. the room is one of our very special places that offers access it provides a quiet place to think and write and and be inspired. it is a source of enormous pride when we can celebrate the publication that was made at the new york public library and tonight we are doubly proud that our moderator wrote her own book

at the library's center for scholars and writers. also looking at puzzling questions of behavior from excellence in journalism and so i hope you all agree there could be no better moderator than larissa macfarquhar in no other better venue then here at the new york public library. she will be signing books after words so please join 21 dash plan to stick around please join me to welcome larissa macfarquhar and kati marton. [applause] >> good evening ladies and gentlemen and king q such an honor to be interviewed by one of my favorite authors and one reason the allen

room produces a much greater literature is there is terrible phone reception laugh laugh so we have no choice we have to keep our noses down. [laughter] it is impossible to make a call. >> you describe this book of stalinism and the cold war in the attraction and repulsion but also about one person that made people probably have not heard of so please set the scene to tell us who is noel field. >> it is my very good fortune he had been ben discovered except handful of scholars of this . because his career as a spy went

unnoticed he was a spy amongst us in the 30's. he was recruited as a rising star in the state department to get into the atmosphere and the reason why such a bright star would be vulnerable to the kgb recruit men. -- recruitment but his career ended not by the people that he betrayed in the united states but those that he served, the kgb and stall and when he was no longer useful to the kgb, stalin demonstrating once again that he was no less ruthless towards his own followers of which noel

field was from a very young age and to his enemies, had him kidnapped from his hotel room in prague, and he had gone to prague sort i'd like edward snowden one step ahead of the fbi subpoena. within was lowered their with a fake job offer and there was kidnapped by his goons and never surfaced again in the west. .org is it is also a family drama in is entire family disappeared because not only was noel field kidnapped but eventually his wife, his

brother and his adopted daughter all naively went looking for him were all in their own pensions in the archipelago. that is the broad outline. >> so to go back to bite he was vulnerable to recruitment but so that ascends so ridiculous that at that point in the late twenties or early 30's why would there be an attraction? by the early '30's the u.s. is in the middle of the depression but fdr in is not

yet the savior to say he had an enormous impact on many interim -- intellectuals. >> there are so many parallels between that age and our present era of general disenchantment with capitalism with the 11 million people at a fork and noel field -- out of work and noel field was exceptional the sensitive. is sounds very odd to call him sensitive but at the outset he was a man who

wanted to write the injustices' that abounded in the washington of the '30's with that anti-immigrant sentiment that was a watershed moment for this beyond me and and for many people but what makes it so extraordinary is he never let go of the faith. the type of personalities personalities, something to lift him out other himself to explain everything in life. i compare it to buy i.c.e.

this in is in power today. and a young mind early enough captured becomes very addictive. >> host: talk about that for a minute. if you ha compare the recruitment to the of volunteers now that is if maybe they cling to that faith for their whole life regardless of what happens but what are some of the differences? so with that internet outreach many will come to them so draw those differences. >> but the power of the

faith and of the leader the only thing is that moscow's own propaganda. and moscow invented the spin. they knew how to package their propaganda. but you said that at 1.in your times correspondent. >> that is was in the 30's and early forties. so we cannot judge that era and i think i am pretty clear in my judgment of noel field who was a very

troubling soling in so many ways. and guilty of multiple teacher at -- betrayal s&p trade everybody for fame and religion. so isis the early communist converts it was stolen the although wing little father of the people. and america of really was on its knees we have to keep remembering the lifting of the spirits and comment united states parallels that capitalism seemed to be feeling -- failing and noel field witnessed thousands of world war i veterans

marching down pennsylvania avenue to claim the of bonuses they were promised for their service and president hoover locked the white house gates and refused to meet with them. that is horrendous. he started off as a good guy and would march with the veterans. his best friend and washington, they were african americans. there is a lot to like about this guy until there wasn't. >> this is one of the deeply fascinating things of the book isn't even as comprehensive as the

idealist this is hard to understand many people say even at the end of his life when he stubbornly with the violence and the brutality was very obvious but yet they still describe him as radiant good this, so how do you reconcile that? >> get some point you think maybe with the reports of fireman's but as some point he ender's stood pat yet to he didn't ever changes mind. >> after a certain point his allegiance to this obviously

misleading faith plus irreversible he made so many sacrifices first of all,, he gave up a brilliant career, he gave up his country because unlike some spies about stealing department memos for his colleagues for the kgb he had trouble, but he did it. and when the opportunity to leave the country and this uncomfortable situation he went to the league of nations for the entire

generation because it was the opportunity for the western democracy to do something other than talk about fascism and those communist or whitaker chambers who was lagging by now what they were hearing what was going on again they would rejoin the cause because the u.s. was so shamefully absent from the anti-fascist battle and another parallel today that at a time of maximum need for us to take in refugees

mostly the jews fleeing fascism the west high-end of quotas and this was appalling for an idealist like noel field but by that was the flavor of his faith and he just wasn't observing these through the newspapers he went to spain to help out the fighters there and to during the war he saw the refugees personally. >> yes. and to their e turn all of regret he got to know many of the future leaders of the soviet empire, future

communist leaders in spain that noel field was helping and then fast forward to past or -- postwar era as many of them would pay with their lives after having been in the same room he was like a curse. >> so take that trajectory he went to harvard at which point he was recruited but then was perking in the spain and tell us about his work during world war ii. >> another piece of the supreme irony a bunch from boston unitarians would rush

to fill the void left by the government's failure to bring gauge in the rescue of refugees to set up shop that was the sanctuary with said german occupation of all of france. so noel field is hired to run the fame and he sets of bread a day and works to rescue hard-core communist and help the of find their way back to their home country. and to begin the work to set up future soviet states all

of the unitarian dime which is not what they had in mind. for a long time it worked. for all blood descriptions of noel field as a wide-eyed , wholesome all-american, by the way the kgb had a saucepot for that physical type because their appearance was extremely good shield against detection. well brought up, well spoken harvard educated young man be a traitor? but he was. he describes the scene as he was involved to try to bring

refugee to consulate lobby the government against the policy to clampdown. no refugees and was suspicious. and but if they were rescuing only communist? he had disowned people in the field and won for his air of humanitarianism was pretty hard core in collecting not only stunt -- communist the stalinist because it is a difference.

>> we all know that a shameful part of our history to clamp down on the refugees from world war two facing a refugee crisis and i was just wondering about revisiting that . of the current situation greg. >> i a think about that i am enormously a distressed by that. and i think it is said another plot on america's image of the world we have a number on our face we don't want to get into that but actually this is one that we cannot blame on donald

trump. i think the vasari lack of compassion to the refugees and somehow have allowed the war against terror to be completed -- conflated with brutality. not to get off and be too far on what we should be doing, up but to take the 10,000 refugees when germany has taken 1.5 million in is pretty pathetic. i am not inclined to set up with any radical movements as a result but i can see

how somebody with noel field inclination to want to do good in the world and the enormous need as well. >> one of the many things that is unusual is that he met his future wife one day were nine. they were each other's closest companions through their whole lives. as 70 know that there is a book about presidential marriages. what difference of those

companion did that enable him? >> yes. it is hard to imagine noel field who is very much a loner and a stranger everywhere he lived. the spent his early years in switzerland from a looming father who died much too soon filling noel field with an image of america that was of fantasy so when he arrived to harvard after his father's death because that was his father's wish, he shocked suddenly he is not

in the utopia but in a bastion of that alienation negroes. and the alienation was deepened of us suffocatingly tight relationship with his wife that the kgb recruiter who essentials the recruited both of them insofar as it is to people to fuse into a single person as the two of them did. and she said that herta would have become a buddhist monk if that was noel field choice. but funny enough to talk

about the bizarre connection but if it is relevant at this point to mention that my mother and father that were jailed as spies with chip is the origin of my obsession they were not actual spies but they were convicted of being cia agents working for the americans against hungary. and they were the only journalist ever to have conducted an interview with noel field and herta. i am jumping forward by one of the conditions of their release from soviet captivity after five years was that they'd never speetwo western journalist. because of how damning that

would be for the west to discover what this man had been through. and that was held. -- hell. so my parents were determined to interview this couple and tried for years until they're older arrest and then were in the same prison and the same cell. when my father was led to his cell january 1955 noel field was just released. the jailer said to my father congratulations you got the of cip cell. recently vacated by an american agent named noel field and then a few years later he said is that a cool place?

that there were more sophisticated. so when my mother and father meet mr. and mrs. field in their hideaway now they have asked for political asylum in budapest because they have then announced as a spy during the up whitaker chambers algeria securing as i am sure you recall that episode that shattered noel field double life as a kgb agent but the first question that mrs. fields asked my mother was what happened to little girls? because my sister and i were part of the coverage of our

parents are restive because it was unusual even with soviet standards in particular as an act of cruelty to take both the mother and father with little kids involved. mrs. fields was aware of that because of the front-page picture of less. my father's impression of herta was that after their brutality of prison she was stronger than noel field and she would keep them together . of course, the leverage from the kgb files and the transcripts because they were filed every very even after they were freed and in the hospital.

and to read the transcripts was painful because they whisper to each other and they are never alone antisense he just wants to die she says no. that is the enemy is that is what they want you to do. do not give them that victory. and they did. >> accuse said herta would follow him and she was extremely devoted but i have the impression that she was just as devoted as she was quite. >> but to live this double life of the wednesday are

reunited after 35 years apart they were in the same prison but did not know that occasionally he thought he heard herta three cells away from him and he imagines and hearing her coughing and indeed it was her but the first question he asks her after have you remained true not to be but to the cause? if that is not a fanatic but she did not see it as odd. she was right there with him. and then asked how stolid was doing and he of course, was dead.

[laughter] >> we need to backtrack a and little bit to explain how noel field was captured by this call in agents taken to congreve imprisoned five years, herta went looking for him with his brother per man and they were both imprisoned five years as they crossed over into the east and noel field and herta adopted daughter went looking for them and also was captured. she is the extraordinary heroin and a fascinated figure bent tell us about

erica. >> she had the most brutal life. >> truly a child of the 20th-century grow up in germany, a jewish background , idealistic parents, adopters to go off to spain to volunteer, the parents cannot look after erica so noel field and herta offered to take care of her. with for the cause. they decide that would divert. >> yes. one of their better decisions. so eric pet is the bright

and attractive small timing will german girl age 17 when the fields of dr. and noel field has high hopes for her in the future. she invigorates the entire narrative because although she would hate the nazis who had driven her from her home she joins the communist party because they are the only ones doing anything. but she does not swallow the face-off with the way noel field does. she is crushed when she falls in love with the american gi to see him is dreams in is shattering. when noel field is taken prisoner, eric had by now is

married to the gi with two little kids six months and 18 months per cauchy fundamentally is a good person and feels that she knows noel field and herta she goes looking for them you don't go looking for people in the gulag archipelago and expect to come back. so no stalling is hatching a big show trial as he did in the '30's as perceived enemies. and then to bolts and stalling in is enraged when

order all the soviet satellites. and hupeh baird and noel field to be the chief witness? because he is an american, the new enemy of the of brief alliance and noel field knows all of the communist from space and from his refugee rescue work and. the book starts off with his kidnapping from his hotel and prague and flashes back. but erica has friends in the german communist party position goes to berlin and a trap is set for her. she is lowered there and she also is tortured into confessing that she was

working for the cia the way noel field was not a word of truth but unlike her adoptive father, she has an entirely different experience. so she humanizes prison the key difference is that noel field is in an solitary confinement which i think is one of the most brutal forms of punishment over five years virtually no contact except a hon gary and guard. she is sent to the northernmost outpost of the gulag and is laying railroad tracks. but she has companions and makes friends even has little flirtations'. she has about as full a life

as you can have in confinement. so when the entire family is 73 -- suddenly free free, stalinist dead, not because there is kindness and humanity but the interrogator who is a horrible guy, a polish comment defects and turns up in washington see a news conference. if you are fans of the americans you will like camelot laugh there are many stories of spies among us and the creator found a

great deal of material in the of book. >> i am a big fan so he turns up and says the field family is alive. i know because i interrogated, a euphemism for torture, and at that point the state department starts to bombard moscow and warsaw and prague with demands for the release of the american family. the family is released including noel field and herta but they do not want to come home because they are afraid of the anti-a. mccarthy america but as the unbelievable twist because

now they have been revealed as spies in would face trial under trees in but the extraordinary thing is when the ambassador to hungary contacts them after they request asylum to say they read feet -- fear of returning to the united states he says this is not consistent with american citizenship. if you are working for the enemy. and it came as a total shock . we are loyal americans. he explained that the loyalty is to the american

people so he considered himself a whale to center but this came as a shock to him as where the jobs drops then you just realize where he is. he had the gift to see only what he chose to seek and he'd never confronted his demons. at the very end there was a poignant moment 1956 is where many people got off the bus with the repression of days on carry an uprising. many people then saw the regime for what it was and

noel field did not and stayed loyal but two years before he died, the prague spring happened and that seems to have affected him. he did every ounce communism but did what and he stopped to pay the party dues. why everything that has happened with the killing sold many people if i was it hard finally? >> noel field spends a lifetime lying as the spies to and must the only thing to ever come out of what is contained in this book because i was very fortunate

to get ahold of correspondence. and that by 68 of the prague spring, uh country where he was living in hungary there were very few people laugh to still believe to he was working in publishing a literary magazine and i interviewed people that were his colleagues that we were all dreaming of our first car and a passport to the west and a refrigerator. nobody was thinking about revolution any more. so with that environment thomas some of the juice went out of his it came out

of his revolutionary tomato. and was a very dry fruit to by the way. [laughter] but it to was unforgivable about noel field but he never acknowledged for which p. sacrifice everything was as toxic as the islamic fundamentalism that captured young people today or to mcnall which not only participated in that movement but played a bowl in the assassination of a good communist. >> gore many through the testimony.

so when you realize is this your own man who started with a great dream that he promises father he would do good things to help prevent another world war he gave his life for one of one of the most violent systems and became the upon. -- the up pond but it is also a tragic family because his siblings they were very helpful because they want to know what happened to because while the field of family was alive the kgb archives were not yet opened so they never got the story so it isn't easy reading for

the family but least now they know. and they never stopped trying or hoping or trying to bring him back to the family and to america up. but the story of their cash she restarts her life and as a spectacular successful life she becomes a schoolteacher in virginia. every children stream. >> we should go to questions at this point. >> >> the information he was able to give to the soviet

union was any of it valuable or did they use it in any way? >> the reason they were so interested noel field was because it is the '30's with fascism raising, a stolid appointed to have a sense of if anything washington was prepared to do to fight fascism and he was well placed in the office of the western european wing of the state department to help along with that. he gave them enough's so the kremlin had a sense that the united states would not be active in the anti-fascist movement and he also gave a lot of information that he represented they united

states at the london naval conference and from there he did all lots of spying and damage. but the measure if you are a spy or not is not determined by the quality of the material but by your willingness to be trade your country -- beach re your country and so she was guilty so was alger hiss without a shred of doubt he was also spying. not for the same branch of soviet intelligence as noel field as he was the political kgb and alger hiss was military intelligence. >> thank you very much i

happen to be from july as an ikea and when i was of little kid i cried when stalin died. back gives you an idea of how pervasive the system was. so what is behind the fascination of that toxic mixture of attraction? you already answer some of the questions but officered cambridge? >> it is somewhat a different species than noel field.

he was not a cynic. to be disenchanted with the british society. they don't give the damn about the of little guy and job creation. noel field did and the tragedy is he did start off with high ideals and very slowly that poisonous ideology so that pretty much you was ready to do anything for the faith. so there is a personality type to a powerful suction

and he was such a personality. even without the internet people like that are spotted by those who are looking for recruits. >> you did a lot of research. even in the late birdies early '40's during the civil war and everybody wanted to understand what the soviet union was all about. end with this attraction.

>> but i think the book that gripped the veil of stalling and. mall dash stolid and in the 30's of that parade technological revolution that was a very long way off with a smart use of propaganda. and the west of that shabby performance of the of

fascism to take the active role and there was a huge role that but he first of all bay and the execution of communist. and he was in favor of maximum executions. and pdf to deep the heading and the propaganda tools with the image of the reduced to former heroes of the of revolution.

they are quaking in their boots and confessing to every crime under the sun. . . who only knew one president, fdr for 12 years.

yes. >> a more general question. how do you pick this character or any other? >> thank you for that question and reading my other books as well. this will sound a little grandiose but i like to portray an era through one character. it was the holocaust and the book about my parents, enemy of the people, life under soviet rule with my book about george pulled its about america and engaging for the first time as a world power.