>> host: let's go to anchorage, alaska. good evening. >> caller: good evening. first off i want to thank you for your efforts in the political spectrum to make things better. i have a question that is in two parts. one is directed toward c-span and one of course is directed towards the stein-baraka teen. that is this, i would like to see a debate that would have all presidential candidates but i would like to see dr. jill stein comments, alamu baraka's comments as well. i don't think the entire country is aware of the value added interest of information that yot can't provide. on a staunch supporter of your campaign. o in fact, stein supporters mayhae have known that there's a big

movement here in alaska that's going on but i would like to see some type of debate between the major candidates and the green party. obviously, we are on the right track because we doing everything correct. steiquestion that i have for you, dr. stein is, is there a pi possibility that you can engage corporations to get them to realize that the rights of voters must be protected and they must work together with the community to allow them to place the referendum and ballot initiatives before the voters on election day? >> guest: great pictures are all terrific questions. i want to give props to c-span for their creating this time for the public to dress. they did the same for gary johnson. the actually, i think they

attempted to bring us together in a debate but were not able to do that. i know the democratic andse to republican candidates refused to debate is because they are running scared. the first time that i ran for office running for governor in massachusetts were able to fight our way into the debate because of massachusetts public was chairing its hair out having to listen to this scam of a debate the mockery of a debate. we fought our way into a onlevised debate, and i was actually winner of that debate on an instant online viewer poll, which point i was yanked out of the debate because it confirms their fears that if the public hear is what we're talkig about.ly on the only candidate for president that has not been funded by corporate money, by lobbyists, and doesn't have a super pac.

our campaign is the only one really as the liberty to stand for everyday people because we are not controlled by corporate america. that's why we are such a threat. that's why they will not let ush into the debates and white they refuse to debate us. the name of the game is weird to stand up and actually build our powers. corporations are not plan to give it to us.eir legasp their legal responsibility to maximize their profits for their shareholders. that's what they do. we in this country began, corporations have to get charged the they still have to get charter of the used to be dissolved so talkers have a limited time span, and corporations which get great financial advantages, they had to justify what they're doing and the public interest. if they fail to improve public interest, then the chargers were canceled and their charters automatically terminated in anyv event.w but now they become these monsters of economic power.

we have to organize ourselves. they are not going to hand it to us on a silver platter.nd we are the ones you have been waiting for. you were seeing it in alaska. we are seeing it all over the country. we the people are getting and organized. we are not going away that i encourage you and others listening to be part of the people's revolution. bernie shaw did you do everything right but you can't have a revolutionary campaign ia a counter revolution party like the democratic party. to join us at the green party and in this campaign at jill 2016.com post that he is telling his supporters, bernie sanders, to vote for hillary clinton just that it's interesting among the party delegates which are probably the most informed of party supporters, all of the many are now supported our campaign as are supporting hillary. it's about one-third, one-third and still one-third undivided. >> host: rake from tennessee. good evening. >> caller: how are you?

i have some questions regarding the foreign policy. and a ghost to really participation within our state department and in congress and in the executive branch, exporting weapons to saudi arabia who i'm sure you saw what happened on saturday, just atrocity, bombings of a funeral. and i'm wondering how would utah coal what i call a deep state? because i mean, it's also against the law for our government to participate in any way with terrorist groups your giving them weapons and thengram also the drone program. they're building $100 million or billion dollar drug base in a africa, and i'm just wondering

how can these people in washington be held accountable for working with terrorists? >> guest: great question and you've made a number of really critical issues. this requires many steps in order to deal with, but the first step is for us to stand up and to have leadership in fact that says we need a new way forward, a new chapter in foreign relations. we need a foreign policy basedha on international law, human rights and diplomacy. not on the exercise of brute military and economicilitary domination. we called for a foreign policy which we are not supplying weapons to people who are violating international law and human rights.. i that includes saudi arabia.es also includes the government of israel which is violating human

rights. we are supporting the army to the tune of $8 million a day. this would include egypt, for example, which is also committee massive human rights violations. we have been a big violate ourselves up international law and human rights, like, for example, the drone program which is an assassination program. that is a violation of international law. we need to inform our allies that we're turning over a new chapter and we expect them to do the same. in the middle east we call for a weapons embargo to the whole region because we are basically supplying weapons to all sides, and a freeze on the funding of all countries who continue to a freeze on the funding and the bank accounts of the countriesk who continue to fund terrorism. that includes saudi arabia who hillary clinton herself identified as still the major funder of terrorist enterprise around the world. there's a better way forward. we need to stand up and make it happen as when coach people in this election, we are not just

deciding what kind of world we will be whether we will have to world are not going forward in terms of these endless expanding wars, the climate crisis, the potential for nuclear warfare. we need to stand up and do the right thing. would you do that we have the numbers that we can win, including 25 million latinos who learned in this race that the republicans are the party of hate and fear, but the democrats are the party of deportation and detention. we can stand up with the numbers we need. >> host: what is this election about come in your mind speak with this election is about democracy. it is about shifting power back to the people. it's about building for the future. it's about having a vision of a future that says we can do more than what we are today. it's a campaign that says that we have the ability to transform ourselves and our conditions, but we have to understand that we have that power and exercise it.

that allows the fear mongers to abandon our principles and to support the lesser of two evils. this is about the future prospects thank you both for being with us. >> guest: thank you. >> host: one month before the election stc spent continues to get front row seat to this presidential campaign, all part of our road to the white house coverage. all of it available on our website at c-span.org. thanks for joining us. >> watch c-span live coverage of the third debate on wednesday october 19. live debate preview from university of nevada las vegas starts at 7:30 p.m. eastern. the briefing for the debates to the audience is at 8:30 p.m. eastern and the 90 minute debate is a 19 eastern. stay with the following the debate for your reactions including calls, tweets and facebook posting. watch the debate live or on

demand at c-span.org. listen to live coverage of the debate on your phone with a free c-span great app, downloaded from the app store or google play. spirit and new survey from the of the virginia looks at how americans view the economy, politics, political leaders and our political culture. that's live today at 1220 pdt on c-span2. later in the afternoon to look at how media outlets have covered the 2016 campaign. that's live at 6:30 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> arizona senator john mccain debated democratic congresswoman ann kirkpatrick this week. they were asked about immigration reform, supreme court appointments and veterans care. this is about one hour. ♪ ♪ >> moderator: good evening and

welcome to this special u.s. senate election 2016 debate. between senator john mccain and representative and patrick. demonstrate is the ever brought to you by arizona pbs and the arizona republic. i'm ted simons enjoyment of moderate the debate is a font sanchez, reporter from the arizona republic. we are broadcasting to you live from our studio and the walter cronkite school of journalism on the downtown phoenix campus of arizona state university. we are joined by radio listeners. tonight's debate is also being broadcast by tv in southern arizona and on facebook live. viewers across the country you are watching on c-span. you can join the conversation on twitter at hashtag easy to be.

debate winner from candidates competing to represent arizona in the u.s. senate. this debate as an open exchange of ideas and opportunity for give and take between candidates for one of states most important offices. as moderator we will try to ensure all sides get a fair shake, to have their say. there are a few ground rules. once were asked to carry a question they will have 90 seconds to answer without interruption. the other candidate in gets 45 seconds for rebuttal again without interruption. didn't go up to an additional two minutes for open discussion of that topic. at the end each candidate will have one minute for closing statements. topics were chosen by journalists from arizona pbs and the arizona republic which includes -- we will also include questions from you the public via social media and the public insight network. let's now meet the candidates. republican john mccain was elected to the u.s. senate in 1986 and is seeking his sixth

term as senator to was first elected to congress in 1982 from arizona's first impression disappeared he was republican party's nominee for president in 2008. democrat ann kirkpatrick were present arizona's first district in the u.s. house of representatives to drop in the district since 2013. she held the same see from 2009 to 2100 she presents her as the number of arizona house of representatives from 2005-2007. earlier we do numbers to get his you gets the first question and that honor goes to senator mccain. >> you complained about congressional gridlock. congress has failed to consistently how state budget in recent years and more than 75% of americans disapprove of the job congress is doing. you have been part of this congress for many years so why do you want to return? mccain: i want to return because there's so much to do, whether it be unlocking this gridlock in

congress as we have come from several on the armed service committee of which i am the chairman. we almost unanimously put out a bill to protect the men and women who are serving in the military. it's almost always unanimous. we need to do a lot more of that. we also need to reach across the aisle off and everybody knows that. we know sequestration is harming the men and women who are serving this country. most of all i am running on my record and my service to the state of arizona and america. i have lead on national security. i led in taking care of the problems and issues that confront the state of arizona, whether it be a fish hatchery up in body county or whether the the crossing down in jew or whether it's davis mountain air force base. i have contributed and it's not an accident that i am judas what of the foremost leaders in congress.

not only on national security but for the good of the state of arizona. i'm proud of my record. i will continue to be known as the maverick, and i will continue to fight my own party when necessary and also to try to form the coalitions that i've done as chairman of the armed services committee, and on many other issues that i've been involved in. we have a long history of accomplishments and i'm running not only on the record but in these very difficult times what i can do for the state of arizona and america. >> thank you. congresswoman? kirkpatrick: i get asked that question all the time. my ideas term limit in congress. i think we should have three-two year terms. that's a total of six years in the house, q.-six u-turns innocent. that's a total of 12 years. if you do those back-to-back, that's 18 years in washington. that's enough.

we need to clear the way for new ideas, and new relationships so that we can bust through that gridlock. if you just think about our technology, what we're using 12 years ago is obsolete. what we use now is going to be obsolete in 10 years. let's have term limits in southern senator, we wanted to to question the social media from erica in tucson. she writes regardless of who gets elected in november how will you work across the aisle to make sure policy is passed and we stay out of stalemates? mccain: first on the issue of term limits, the voters determine term limits. in fact, at one time i think a term limited congresswoman kirk patrick but she came back and many people are glad that she did. it's the voters to decide what term limits are. most important thing is you have to have the knowledge and the background in order to make things happen. i have used the expense

inability. i have years of experience in traveling all over this state from cuba to different parts of our state of arizona are i know the people and then of the issues. we are going to have a mine into their excellent which i put in the authorization bill which would then provide 25% of america's copper supply and higher thousands of people. the reason why it is now flying in combat in iraq and syria is because congressman dick sal and i were able to make sure that the air force could not retire them. experience and knowledge that leads to effectiveness, jeff have respect of your colleagues. >> moderator: the question was working across the aisle. mccain: on the armed service committee would always turn out to build for 53 years now. that's the only bill that authorizes against through the congress.

republicans and democrats worked together for the good in men and women are serving this nation and the good of the country. that's one of my proudest accomplishments is our ability to help the men and women who are serving defend this nation. i'm very proud of them. >> congresswoman, how would you envision working with a president trump? kirkpatrick: you know i was born and raised on the white mountain apache nation. my mother's family republican ranchers in the white mountains and my dad's family were democratic businessman. i always have it made for interesting family get-togethers because they would be spirited debates. but at the end of the day we were all family, all arizonans, all americans. i have the unique ability to find a common ground, and i'm sure i could find with the president to get things done. the big store in arizona is as you know i lost my election in 2010 to paul gosar. we were both reelected in 2012 after redistricting. we came together and we said

let's go to our divisive history behind us. let's come together and work together to get things done for arizona. we have a very good working relationship, a democrat and republican. but i would say that is so great in washington, d.c. because arizona's odd couple. >> moderator: next question to you congresswoman patrick the nominee of your party is deemed untrustworthy i significant share of the american electorate. why do you trust hillary clinton? why to support her policies? kirkpatrick: i think she's the most experienced, knowledgeable candidate we've had for president in years. i don't agree with everything in her policies. for instance, i've been fighting against the epa for our coal-fired electrical plants. what i wanted it is not shut down overnight, but eventually transition into alternative energies. they are located in small towns

where people need those jobs. we have to have a plan to do this transition so that we don't lose any of those jobs. mccain: hillary clinton has told lies after lies. hillary clinton, i believe, is disqualified herself to be president. i was a good friend of a man named chris stevens. he was the ambassador to libya, and i knew him and made him. i went to andrews air force base when the coffins came home, those four brave americans who were murdered in a terrorist act. hillary clinton spoke to one of the parents of one of those dead young americans and said, i'm going to get the guy who made the hateful video that caused your son's death. we now know that according to her messages that she was sending, or e-mail, that she knew at the time that it was a terrorist attack. i don't know how you can lie to

grieving parents standing next to the flag draped coffin of their son. for me that did it. >> given her high number of unfavorability is at high number of people who do not trust or in part because of this, do you think of support over in any way damages your credibility? kirkpatrick: i don't think so. and look, you know, my heart goes out to the families who lost loved ones in benghazi, but there were at least seven congressional investigations and it all came to the same conclusion, there was no wrongdoing. but the majority leader of the house kevin mccarthy actually said they only did that for political reasons, to embarrass hillary. >> moderator: senator, ken, the benghazi situation has been politicized, some say to extreme measures, other say perhaps it's not been investigated enough. where do you stand on this? again, how do you associate congresswoman kirkpatrick with

benghazi? mccain: i don't associate her with benghazi. i associate her with hillary clinton whose stewardship of the state department and was a decision-maker after the dog was killed, we walked away and lindsey graham and and joe lieberman wrote a piece that was in "the wall street journal." -- moammar gadhafi. the point is that benghazi has been lied about and lied about and lied about. we know that from e-mails. and tragically we now have a director of the federal bureau of investigation that has destroyed the credibility of the fbi by allowing servers, information division destroyed, by taking actions which have nothing to do with his responsibilities. we now have yes, there was plenty of investigations of benghazi, edition begin because of the needless deaths of these

brave young americans. but at the same time there has been a cover-up, the likes of which i have not seen it and i believe that the facts someday will come out. that this was not an accidental unprovoked demonstration. it was an act of terror that took the lives of four brave americans, and it was covered up by the white house. >> referencing the e-mails you spoke about, senator mccain, do you agree with the way hillary clinton's e-mails -- is the ideal. she could handle it or better and she herself had to do. i take objection to the senators disparaging remarks about the fbi. i worked my way the university of arizona, earned a law degree and started my career in flagstaff as a prosecutor. i have worked with the fbi. they do a lot of investigations on tribal land and we have wonderful fbi agents.

i havi have a very good relatiop with law enforcement in this state. mccain: could i just say i respect the fbi great deal, too. but what mr. gomez dennis established to stand cheered when general petraeus reveals some classified information, he paid the penalty. secretary clinton was on a private server, access to all kinds of classified information, and she paid no penalty. there's clearly a double standard. kirkpatrick: is not a double standard. she admits that she could've handled it differently. there's been so much on the e-mails but when we really should be talking about, you know, what do we do to stem the our economy? what about starting a major, major national infrastructure project? i sit on the transportation information committee, we were hoping to be able to pass a package about a six-year national infrastructure package. it would create hundreds of

thousand of good paying jobs. that's what we should be talking about. >> moderator: senator mccain, the presidential nominee of your party has made controversial remarks about women, mexican immigrants, muslims, disabled people and prisoners of war, including you. over the weekend you with to your support for donald trump. one of our social media question has just coming. this is from dave in northern arizona. he is basically asking, what took you so long? mccain: first of all, could i mention i agree with congresswoman kirkpatrick about the importance of infrastructure. that's why was able to get ie levitt into the highway bill which would then have a quarter because all the way from our southern border all the way to canada. and i appreciate congresswoman kirkpatrick's support for the and in that i got in the bill. i'm in the arena. if someone wants to say something disparaging of a, i understand that. i don't understand it when it is

said about other men and some women who have been imprisoned i didn't like it i spoke out strongly against it. i spoke out strongly on several other issues where i got that mr. trump was absolutely wrong. i have not been shy about it. the son of the con family, a man who literally sacrificed his life to save others as he approached an ied, all of those things i thought were very wrong, but then when mr. trump attacks women and that means the women in our nation and in our society, that is a point where i had to part company. it's not pleasant for me to renounce the nominee of my party. he won the nomination fair and square, but this is, i have daughters. i have friends, i have so many wonderful people on my staff. they cannot be degraded and demeaned in that fashion.

.. >> i wonder since i was renounced my support when

kirkpatrick will renounce her support for hillary clinton who lied to the families and flag draped of their son saying that i'm going to get the guy that made the hateful video when we know she was e-mailing her daughter and others that she knew it was a terrorist are attack. shoos lied about her lies about her lies about the server. and it's not an accident that most americans do not trust her. >> do we expect any sort of unendorsement from you? >> no, you don't. >> no going back to you, do you think your credibility has been damaged in supporting donald trump? >> the people of this country and the people of arizona know me, and that's why there's a wide disparity in the polling data. poem of arizona know me and my service to them and my character and integrity. i just worry frankly and i probably nothing to do with this debate. i worry about the future of the republican party. we're going to have a lot of

work to do after this election is over. >> so if i take your previous answer correctly, you're equating what hillary clinton did regarding messaging and benghazi with -- >> no, no. the family lie to the family of the slain young man who is a victim of terrorism. lying to them while they're standing next to the coffin. other thing this is bad enough but lying to the grieving family that to me is -- like not unlike frankly mr. trump demeaning and degrading women. >> as well as muslims disable people prisoners of war. mexican -- >> all of those things. when a person legitimately winning a nomination of the party then, obviously, it deserves that sport. i have expressed by disagreement and i express when ronald reagan sent troupes to beirut and fire

seacialght secretary of state when i was running rather lose a campaign than a war. no doubt about my criticism when i see there's something is that's wrong. >> so who are you going to vote for? >> lindsey graham an old good friend of mine and a lot of people like him. fact is i can't seriously i cannot vote for either one. >> moving on to immigration -- >> can i say one more point john mccain has been running away from answering whether or not he trust donald trump finger on the nuclear button so senator i want to ask you, do you trust donald trump finger on the nuclear arsenal, yes or no? >> coif a nonsense question. i've said i don't support him. so why would i -- nonsense -- >> do you trust his finger on the button? >> i don't sew a scenario where finger would be on the button. do you support hillary clinton's finger on the nuclear button?

>> i do. >> no i don't. >> but you have not answer ad the question. >> i just answered the question, no, and if you want to continue to support someone who is continuously lied to the american people, lie after a lie after lie if her server, the person who had the reare set button with remember the reset button with russians everything was going to be great. look at the world with day that hillary clinton became secretary of state and look at the world today. you will see a failed policy and threats to the united states of america and attacks on the united states of america. and director of the cia says are going to continue. that is part of the leadership team that hillary clinton was an integral part of. >> quickly did you support the idea of donald trump's finger on the button until thises past weekend? >> i did because i was supporting the nominee of the party. i will continue with the nominee of the party becomes responsibilities and if becomes also authorities.

and we have seen many times all the way back to harry truman that office has made the person but this is an academic discussion my friend because i no long or support donald trump to be president of the united states. >> moving on to the next question, the immigration, there are 11 million undocumented immigrants living in limbo waiting for congress to implement a comprehensive immigration reform plan something not since 198 of you both agree that reform is needed. congressman kirkpatrick you are an advocate for immigration reform but when the democratic party controlled both chambers of congress and the white house, immigration reform was not enacted why should voters expect anything different if they return you to office? >> and let me just say you know as a former prosecutor, i'm all about enforcing the law. but we all know this law is broken. it is an economic issue because it hurts business.

but it is a moral issue. because it is tearing families apart. i've been a consistent supporter for comprehensive immigration reform that includes the dream act. and i have an immigration working group that meets periodically it is very broad based. faith based, it is businesses it is dreamers and we start our meetings with the stories of the dreamers, what's happened to their families and how this is just tragic situation for them. so i introduced legislation that would allow dreamers to work on capitol hill. all because i think of the dreamers were working on capitol hill and people like senator mccain could hear their stories. we would pass comprehensive immigration reform in a heart beat. we think right now we've got the votes in the house to do that. but our leadership senator mccain leadership won't bring it up for a vote. >> senator. >> really glad you mentioned the

fact that in 2009 when barack obama was elected president of the united states they had 60 votes in the senate overwhelming majority in the house. do you think barack obama or congresswoman kirkpatrick brought up immigration reform orveg not, they want to do obamacare, disaster of obamacare which congresswoman kirkpatrick says was she's most proud of which bill clinton former president clinton just said is the craziest thing we've ever done. so instead of that, he -- they did the stimulus package. they did obamacare a bunch of other things which were very damaging to the country, and then i was able to get immigration reform through the united states senate. that is a very big difference between having working groups and talking about it, and legislative accomplishments and i promise you that dreamers were part of immigration reform. but we also have to have a secure border and border is

going to be secure with legislation i would get through including use of drones and towers and increasing the border patrol who by the way, the border patrol have endorsinged i'm very proud of their endorsement. >> we hear about enforcing border, securing border what does a secure border mean? when do we know a border is secure? >> you can have very -- various statistics that could show that. but in israel, they have towers, and we are a constructing these towers now at if 3 million each all along our border. i got in the defense authorization bill of requirement that drone that are flying would a little be used to patrol the border. and we can do it with technology and also additional border patrol personnel. i worked very clogsly with border patrol. that's why theyen -- endorsed me and i'm so proud to

have their endorsement along with our law enforcement who have also endorsed me for reelection. so we can, but there's another big issue that is lurking out there and that is manufactured mexican heroin getting cross or border and is killing people, and that mean it is that we have to do whatever is necessary to secure that border. >> on that point, we have a social media question. this one is from brett keating from mesa, via the public insight network. he says, one major problem i see on the streets i live on is drugs and widely reported that many of these illegal drugs come from across the border. how would you go about stopping this? congresswoman? >> let me first address about what it means to have a secure border. we have tribes that are on presidents board i visit with them and friends that are ranchingers down there. border will be secure when they feel secure. and they don't. but this is the -- very reason that we have to pass comprehensive immigration reform

is so that the border patrol agent as can focus on the criminal activity there and we've got to get this done. so yeah, i'm all -- i have zero tolerance for criminal drug trafficking, sex trafficking at the border that's why we have to have comprehensive immigration reform. >> going bang to brett's question how do you stop it? by focusing ourrd boor patrol agent it is attention, time, resources on the criminal element. it takes 18 months to once become border patrol that's wrong. we should have any member of the military and any veteran absolutely to be able to make that transition immediately. s it's tough on the border in 115, 120 degree heat we should be providing those border patrol fats that are on our southern border with hazardous duty with incentive pay because there's lots of them who like to be up

on a nicer environment. it's tough when you're sitting in a vehicle in this kind of heat. we need to provide them with the incentive we need and supply them with support they need. we need technology which is a major, major factor and again, i couldn't be more proud that the border patrol agents who i have such a good relationship with have endorsed my candidacy and are supporting it. by the way i also fixed their requirement system. >> moving on to our next question about illegal immigration. senator mccain, you've criticized president obama's executive actions at the further of the deportation of certain immigrants and expanded protections to dreamers. what would you do with these young undocumented immigrants who were brought to this country as children that were raised american? >> that is easy i would pass immigration comprehensive immigration reform that we passed through the united states senate. and i was one of the -- that was the major of the group of us that -- that got it passed. and obviously it's got to be part of all comprehensive immigration reform.

look, terrible things are happening right now to young people from guatemala elle el salvador and transported by coyotes mistreated ticially on the way. some of them are dying. we have to have them taken care of in those countries of origin where if they have a humanitarian issue, go to our consulate. go to our embassy staff those up so they're not subjected to this riot some of them are on top of trains and fall off of trains and it is a requirement for all of us to have a secure border. there's another issue. right now is as we speak baghdad is sending people with -- with secure apps into refugee flow which was caused by barack obama's failed policies and they're -- sooner or later they're going to try to get across our sorn border. it has now become a national security issue. thank you senator, congresswoman. >> did introduce the dream angt, but when had it came up for a

vote in the senate, he voted against it. now, i just recently visited nogles entrepreneurs bringing economic development to the area and they said trump's idea of building a wall at the border is bad for taz. arizona but deporting 12 million people, that's personal. >> could you rebut that? >> it was part of immigration reform throughout and everybody knows that. >> congresswoman going back to executive actions uh-uh you supported them. the courts have found, though, that those actions are unconstitutional hillary clinton has said she would go even putt with these protections. do you agree with that stance, and which type of protections would would you support? >> i support protections of the do and docka. right now we have in arizona so many people with the fear that

they might be deported because of the supreme court's action. and this is why we have to have a full supreme court. john mccain right after justice scalia passed away said we shouldn't fill the supreme court for a year for a year because i think the next president should be filling that position. and he was supporting donald trump. we need to have a working supreme court. dopa and a doca is an example of that. >> with the supreme court and waiting so long to get this thing -- >> number of years ago when the situation was reversed the vice president of the united states then senator joe biden went to floor of the senate and said weapon can't have a vote. we have a vote coming up here. we can't take, consider this. let american people speak this is too important, and let's not have any consideration of a supreme court justice until after the election.

i'm with joe biden. joe and i we disagree on a lot. but let's let the people decide this vote and this election is one of the most important in history. by the way on this issue of the court more and more deciding that barack obama is acting unconstitutionally. barack obama said i've got a pen and i've got a phone. this is not the first time on these immigration issues. he's violating his oath of office and constitution of the united states and i don't say that lightly. >> going back to the justice appointment, do you trust either of the major party candidates to appoint a supreme court justice? >> the constitution says that the president proposes and the senate disposes. i have confidence that if we can keep the majority, we republicans keep the majority in the united states senate, we will scrutinize and we will be very, very studious about who we --

would vote for or vote against. but the worst thing in my view is that hillary clinton presidency and majority of democrats in the senate. we could not -- america could not -- it would be tough times. [laughter] >> i'm not at all surprised that john mccain supports somebody from washington and listens to washington after he's been there for 33 years. but here's what the arizona people are say. they're saying john mccain, do your job about. dot job is that you're elected to do and that the taxpayers are paying you to do. confirm a supreme court justice. john mccain once voted for merritt garland and now won't meet with him. we're tired of that kind of obstructionism in washington. >> i do my job it is at davis. willow beach now has a fish hatchery that i got the money for. i-11 will be a carter from our southern border to canada is in being. one of the world largest --

line copper mine in the world 25% of america's copper supply will then be result of that copper mine which i got done. 5 a 35 is now mcsuma and air force base and every student that flies f35 will be trained at luke air force base so ting i kind of think that make an argument that i'm doing any job. >> but we have only eight supreme court justices. >> we have only eight supreme court justices, and i would much rather have eight supreme court justices than a justice who is liberal in the -- in the keeping of the practice of ruth bader ginsberg and liberal and in my view not in keeping with the constitution. their actions in my view are not keeping with my interpretation of the constitution. this is what makes this election a very, very serious election. >> we move on to our next

question involves health care. congresswoman next year is shaping up to be a change challenging year for many in arizona when it comes to health care. it appears there will be just one health insurance company offers exchange plans in 14 of the states 15 counties only -- pima county will have two health insurers you have called your vote for obamacare, affordable care act, aca you have called that your proudest moment in congress. do you still -- hold on to that assessment considering what we're seeing now with the aca? >> yes, but i've always said it wasn't perfect and we need to work together to fix it. i came to the health care debate with over 20 years experience as a health care lawyer. so i started my own law firm in flagstaff i represented flagstaff medical center and doctors and positions so i have a good understanding of what is involved. and it's key to having insurance companies in the marketplace.

when i first heard about the possibility that we would only have one carrier, i contacted the director of cms and said we need a plan. to make sure that everybody has a choice. when i heard that etna was pulling out of pinel county i talked to blue cross/blue shield and they agreed to go in and provide that coverage. but this is an example of something that could have been doing the last six years. considering to repeal obamacare. over 60 times we should have been working to fix it. john mccain's plan would add 187 billion dollars to the deficit. it would make health care more expensive for women. because it would take away coverage for cancer screenings and con straw contraception and cosponsored a bill to allow an employer to fire a single woman who got pregnant. >> 45 seconds rebuttal, senator. >> nonsense.

but point is that now congresswoman kirkpatrick wants us to work together to fix it. the problem is that for the first time in history, a major entitlement reform was ran through the congress of the united states without a single vote from the other side. i fought for weeks and weeks and weeks against obamacare and they would not allow us an amendment there was not a single amendment allowed. no input from the minority party. we were then in the minority. now, congresswoman kirkpatrick wants us to sit down and work together. here's how we work together. we repeal and we replace it, and right now it is so bad that the former president of the united states, bill clinton, said it's the easy craziest thing he'd of heard had of. obamacare, and so we can fix the health system but it was based on a flawed premise and that is that we would take money from heament young americans and spend it for the health care of

less well, older americans. and by the way, there is 14 of the 15 counties in pas arizona that have one health care provider and that's the one that barack obama and congresswoman kirkpatrick sod if you like your you can keep it and if you like your doctor you can keep it. >> we have your rebuttal time respond please the idea of if it's got problems, repeal it, get it out of there. replace it with something else. >> ted i was at a wedding not too long ago and father of the bride pulled me aside tears streaming down his face and he said ann, you know, i'm a republican. you know i voted against you because of your health care vote. he said i wouldn't be here today to walk my daughter down the aisle if you had not voted for health care. i don't to go back to the days when somebody with a preexisting condition would have died and not been able to walk his daughter down the aisle. but we do have to fix it.

there's no question about it and we really need to address increasing cost of prescription drugs. >> thousands of -- >> by the cow i mention gallop l majority of americans do not approve of the obama care. and 29% of americans according to gallop said they've been harmed by obamacare. so i know you moot nice people at weddings but the fact is that majority of the american people have resoundingly rejected obamacare as far as preexisting conditions are concerned, we, obviously, could have risk pools to take care of those people nobody is ready to abandon them. >> to that point thousands of people have been insured because of the affordable care act. but many people are paying much more than they used to for the same care or worse care. so what is your message to them? >> yes, i just heard from a man the other night who had private insurance. and his insurance rate this year were going to be $3,650 a month.

thank heavens he could get insurance through obamacare and premium is about $500 a month. >> blue cross/blue shield announced they're going to have a 65% increase in their charges. 65%. the copays and deductibles are skyrocketing out of -- out of site and that's why 21 million americans were predicted to have part of obama obamacare and 9 million americans have. the whole thing is collapsing like a house of cards. . would the whole thing have collapsed like a house of cards as you describe it if congress instead of repeatedly trying to repeal the aca work to the try to improve it? >> we would be glad to try to fix it but it has -- because it was based on a flawed premise that i just described to you, we have scrap it and start over. it was based on the wrong idea that we were going to penalize young people.

those young people would rather pay the fine and by the way, i have legislation that if there's only one health care provider as there is in 14 of the 15 arizona counties then they shouldn't have to pay a fine there's no choice there. there's no doctor that they like that they can keep. it's a scam, and the problem is that the cost is becoming prohibited and we've got to change it and fix it. >> all right. move on to our next question regarding the economy. senator mccain this is for you since great recession u.s. has seen some recovery. but the rebound has been sluggish. what is your plan to accelerate job growth, what is your plan to accelerate the economy? >> regulation and regulations and regulationings. the tens of thousands of regulations that have come out of the obama administration. whether they call arizona having navigatable washes and waters

and now having those of shutting down our power plants. our cofired power plants which is -- incredibly accident -- expensive to literally regulating just about every aspect of our lives. when you look at the regulations that have been issued over obamacare they're about this high web and how many hours somebody can work and how many they can't work, and whether thaild be eligible for this and that it's micromanagement. let's turn the government back it our governor. and our legislature. and let's let the states decide these issues rather than it be a flood 25,000 -- regulations have come out of this administration. and since they've only got four months left i'm sorry to tell you you ain't seen nothing yet. >> congresswoman. >> you know i was born and raided in mountains at that time, the area was a thriving timber industry there the area

where i was born plunged into poverty so it's been my vision and work for arizona to build a strong diverse stable economy we've gone through too many boom and bust cycles but we can't have that kind of economy until we first build a world class had education system here and we pass comprehensive immigration reform. >> let me just mention to you two issue to the determination of the future of state of arizona. fire and water. fire and water. 20% of our national forest have been consumed by fires in the last ten years. we need top thin our fires. we have to make some tough decisions on water. and i'm glad to work with congresswoman kirkpatrick and anybody else and with our governor and others, we have to work together because the the issue it was going to determine the future of our children and our grandchildren. and i'm proud to have worked with jon kyl on a number of indian water supplements which are critical to future of the supply of water nays. in arizona. j you've talked about less regulation but how do we avoid

result that we saw in 2007 of the bush-era economic plan of less legislation and tax cuts? >> if the collapse of 2008 did not have a lot to do request government regulation, it had a lot to do with the housing industry, as we know and that's one reason why arizona was so badly hurt and one of the slowest to recover because we allowed the housing industry to go completely out of control and, obviously, the stooct went with it and arizona suffered a deal from it and measures that we had to take were very difficult and the reason we haven't recovered sufficiently as we had from other recessions is because of this government's micromanagement of the economy and the government regulations which have stifled. let me give you an example. if you cut the number of hours per week that a person can work, and not -- and then also not be eligible

for obamacare, then you are causings that employer to do things which mac it difficult to really get, make a profit and hire additional vdges. >> congresswoman the idea th cot fewer regulations and a tax cut did not have a factor. were not a factor in the 2008, 2007 recession. you buying that? >> i'm not buying that but i will tell you i saw so many families really suffer in the housing crisis. i remember taking a walk in my naibsd in flagstaff and entire cul-de-sac every house was being foreclosed on and it hurt families but it didn't hurt the people of wall street who made more money. i mean, donald trump said it was an opportunity a business opportunity for hem you know there's a day when john mccain was a maverick and stand up to his party? that now he has taken more money from wall street than any other

sit senator. he gave them the bailout. i've always opposed the bailout. >> there's a reason this is a slowest recovery in history there's a reason for that. that is because little stewardship of the economy of the last eight years. it really is a lot more complicated than that. >> we're going to mix it up just a little bit. knowing that people can go to each of your websites more details, on this -- one word answer, arizonans are asked whether they want to increase the minimum wage to $12. do you support it senator mccain? >> no. >> yes. >> thank you so much. >> moving on now to the the v.a. the va as you know congresswoman is in tour mile and has been for years regardless of what you have done through massive reform to try to fix the myriad of problems awe a report in the

arizona republic is critical of the agency has found patients are still is unable to get to their appointments in a timely harn. glowft fixed the problems congress has not fixed the problems. why not an how do you fix it? >> first let me say i was first member of congress to ask for an independent expectation at the phoenix v.a. when i first heard allegations about what was happening there. we're to protect whistle-blower against retaliation. so my whistle-blower protection act just passed the house. and you know those brave people hadn't come forward we would never know what's going on at the v.a. i just finished doing a round of business to all three of our v.a. hospital it is the one in prescott, one here in phoenix and one in tucson, and after i do that, i have a if veterans round table because i want to hear from them what they're t their experience is with the hospital and administration. when i was in u tucson, having

my veterans round table, john mccain was on the radio blaming the veteran service organizations for the problems at the v.a.. that's not going to fix the problems. again, we need to work in a bipartisan way. for our veterans, they've already paid the price. now we have to fight for them with all of our might. >> senator mccain. >> highest honor that every veteran service organization in america can provide. look, after this terrible thing happened an the tragedy here in phoenix of 50 brave veterans dying on a nonexisting wait list i was asked to work with with bernie sanders who was then the chairman of the v.a. veterans affairs committee we work hard, it was tough. and from out of it we made some significant reforms. among them are the the choice card. that a veteran under certain conditionses is able to go out and -- get the health care from a provider so far 5 million appointments have been made. that was legislation that

senator sanders and i worked on and was able to get u through congress. it was a terrible problem in merck today. and that is veterans suicide. 8,000 veterans american commit suicide commit suicide every day. 28 year, 22 every day. i passed the clay hunt suicide prevention act thanks to the family members of clay hunt a young man who committed suicide and we're working on this issue. by the way, proud of the city of phoenix for not having homeless veterans. >> 45 second rebuttal. thank you for that. could pass with the idea welfare a new director at the phoenix vment a. hospital is not unusual. we've had now 7 in two years the latest has a troubled history. your thoughts on that appointment. >> yes, i recently have the opportunity to meet her. look, i know as a woman how difficult it is to rise up in the ranks and any kind of organization. so i welcomed her to arizona. i want to give her a chance.

>> you want to give her a chance senator? >> i'm afraid so but more of an indictment on the system to have seven heads of the v.a. in phoenix in three years. that's unacceptable. no organization can -- can function effectively when you have three heads of it it in three years she has a lot to prove. she's got a great deal to prove and so, i'm willing to give her a chance also. but frankly the whole system cries out you know that in denver, colorado, the v.a. tried to build a hospital and it cost $1.7 billion and they still is haven't built the hospital. think of how many veterans could be treated with that kind of money and finally again, i want a veteran to have the same choice that someone on medicare does. taken care of at the v.a. or go to physician and health care provider of your choice. >> another question that voters care deeply about. this one is related to terrorism

and national security. senator, over the past year we've seen terrorist attacks on u.s. cities from coast to coast. how do you propose keeping arizonans safe from attacks either in sponsored by terrorist groups like isis? >> as a i said look at the map of the world in 2009 when barack obama came to office and look at it today. the world is in turmoil. the world is on fire. as far as terrorism is concerned, right now as we speak baghdadi is giving people encrypted apps that i told you about. there's also what we call the self-radicalized young man in the internet right now being self-radicalized willing to go out to take his life to take the live of others first we have to go to kill them there and ideological having l that we're involved in to try to stop this radical islam which the president of the united states refuses to call islamic

terrorism. and we're going to have this fight, and the problem is that due to barack obama failure leading from behind isis is throughout world all of of north africa places like indonesia. malaysia, other places in the world because when america leads from behind, some other really bachelor's degree people lead are from in front. we need a leader who will lead. >> thank you senator congresswoman. >> we have to keep our country safe. isis has to be destroyed. and it is a two pronged approach. we have to take out their leadership and we have to prevent them from exporting terror. john mccain's solution is the send in more troops any time there's a crisis send in more troops. i don't to send anymore troops in until we have a plan. to bring them home, and a plan to take care of them. once they get home. >> you know i was the one who said we were losing the war in rk and we had to have the

search. and i wanted the secretary of defense fired that was with president george w. bush and thanks to service and sacrifice we won and then barack obama pulled everybody out. and the rest is history. as al qaeda became isis, and went to syria and morphed and it didn't have to happen -- [inaudible] >> prescribed by president bush? >> pulled out at promised? >> no -- you see the lie that is being 208d is told is somehow wetted to pull them out it is not true. i was in baghdad with lindsey graham and i won't go through it. they were ready to stay. but obama said that they needed to have a status of force agreement. now we have 5,000 american troops there. where is the requirement for the status of forces agreement? it is not there. and it's not necessary. and we're doing it incriminately which is a lot of us know a little bit about warfare called mission creep. >> congresswoman kirkpatrick

says you want to see troops back in iraq. that -- >> 4,500 troops -- 4,500 troops there and in syria right now as they're gradually increasing and escalating same iraq that barack obama said we were leaving behind the freest safest and most democratic iraq. >> do you want to see more troops in iraq? >> i need enough troops okay what you really need is 100,000 person force 10,000 americans, 90,000 sunnies because they have special kinds of capabilities including air support and others. go in and take raqaa and you can do that and in a short period of time. right now they have no strategy. >> congresswoman. >> yes john mccain is not being truthful about the withdrawal from iraq. it was george w. bush, and john mccain knows that because in 2010 he put out on twitter congratulating president bush for pullout and how happy he was that that had been accomplished

just not telling the truth. >> and the fact is that i wrote pieces and i argued on the floor and we fought an order and predicted what would happen, and they would -- he did not pull them out and not all pulled out until barack obama became president of the united states. >> congresswoman. >> well you know what's interesting that we've spent so much of this debate talking about the national issues -- it doesn't surprise me because john mccain still running for president. i'm running to be arizona's senator. so i'd like to talk about some things that are important to arizonans like jobs. >> okay, well they did talk about the economy but right now we are simply out of time. [laughter] thank you for a lively debate it is now time for closing statements and earlier we do numbers to determine the order of closing statements and kirkpatrick won that draw and will give the first closing statement. >> it would be an honor to serve arizona as your next senator.

my arizona roots are deep. on both sides of my family, we've been here 100 years. i always put arizona first. what's remarkable l is that i like hundreds of thousands of other arizonans once voted for john mccain. but i'm disappointed. he's changed since he's been in washington for 33 years. you see, he once authored dream act and then he voted against it. he supported comprehensive immigration reform. and now he's campaigned on build the fence. he once fought but corrupting money in politics. mccain gold bill, and now he's taken more money from wall street than any other sitting senator. it would be an honor, arizonans have a choice many in this election, i would be honored to have your vote. thanks so much. >> thank you congresswoman and

now with final closing statement john mccain. >> really it's been delightful evening and thank you for your professional questions and i appreciate it. yeah, congresswoman kirk path frick is right i have changed. i have changed. i understand the issues and channels that face taz. i have traveled everywhere. i've got the endorsement of 52 mayors in arizona. you know, that doesn't mine i've left them. it means that they trust me. and i trust them because they're the poem that i talk to where i can really understand the challenges. look, i came here 35 years ago. and i've made a home, and a family and i've been so blessed. i've been so blessed by the people of arizona who have taken me and my family and i've been blessed to be able to serve this nation and arizona in the most min noble because serving in a self-interest is noblist that one can do. so i say to people of arizona,

thank you and i'm very grateful and i hope you'll send me back. >> again candidates thank you so very much. that's it for now for this special u.s. senate election 2016 debate. brought dpow you by arizona pbs and the arizona republic. thanks to candidates for their participation. and thanks to members of the public who sent in questions and thank you for watching. sanchez i'm ted simons stay tuned for arizona pbs for continued coverage of the 2016 election. you have a great evening. ♪ a new survey about american political culture shows public dissatisfaction with the economy, politics, and the current political climate. this survey authors review their findings live today here on c-span2 at 12:20 eastern.

our campaign 2016 coverage continues on c-span with live debates for u.s. house, senate, and governor's races. tonight at 8 eastern, republican senator mike lee and democrat misty snowe debate for the utah u.s. senate, and then on thursday just after noon pennsylvania eight direct congressional debate between brian at this time patrick and steve, and at 7 republican senator richard burr and democrat deborah ross debate for the north carolina u.s. senate. on friday night at 8 eastern, the wisconsin u.s. senate debate between republican senator ron johnson and former democrat senator rust sine gold and solid at ten with republican joe heck and katherine cortez debating for the nevada u.s. senate. watch our complete campaign 2016 coverage on c-span, and online at c-span.org, and listen on the c-span radio app. watch c-span's live conch of the third debate between hillary

clinton and donald trump on wednesday, october 19th. our live debate from nevada, las vegas starts at 7:30 p.m. eastern, the briefing for the debate studio audience is at 8:30 p.m. eastern, and the 90 minute debate is at 9 a.m. eastern stay for viewer reaction for call and facebook postings and watch the debate live or on demand using desktop, phone, or tablet at c-span.org. listen to live coverage of the debate on your phone with the free c-span radio app download it from the apple store or google play. >> and news about the consumer financial protection bureau second most powerful court ruled it that bureau structure is unconstitutional. delivering a huge victory to business groups and republicans in congress. the 2-1 decision by the u.s. court of appeal d.c. circuit doesn't halt had operations but states that congress error in creating a far reaching agency

that is led by a single director the hill rides court found that they represent a gross departure from settled historical practice of having multimember commissions at independent agencies to keep them in check and read more at the hill.com and here's more about what that decision means.r that >> court decision yesterdayou takes a look at the operation of the cf as it is known consumerer final protection bureau and take specifically a look at its leadership joining us on the phone to talk about it, lidiaon wheeler with hill newspaper and website, use their federal regulations reporter, ms. wheeler can you start with how the pfpb is how it heads up and what the leadership structure are is and what does the court have to say about it? >> sure so cfpb is headed up by a single director who is richard cordre he was appointed by the president to have this

independent agency in 2013.20 and basically the u.s. court of appeals for the d.c. circuit ruled that the way it is set up now is unconstitutional and congress made a mistake byeatina creating far agency that is led by a single collector, and instead it is said that, you know, it should have had if it is going to be an independent agency it should have had a number of commissioners and also a board of directors to keep it in check. >> why was that current structure set up in the first place? >> that was a decision that congress made. you know, this agency came out of frank financial reform law and that was the decision that it made. there are other agencyies likee the treasury department. they -- but treasury department is more, you know, they have to report to the president and install the

president directortive so now the court said that you have to act more like the treasurysury department, and you know -- basically you have to be governed by president and president can supervise you and remove your director at will. >> if the organization is currently declared unconstitutional does that mean it has to stop operations? >> no, absolutely not. the court specifically said in its 110-page decision that this does not impact the operations of cfpb and it can keep rolling out its rules and taking enforcement action so the only thing really is that is happening is this a tweak of how the agency should be run.cy but it does threaten its current director are. if you know a new president comes in it gives new president power to get rid of richard even if he wants to finish out his five-year term. >> just to be clear if the cfpp makes regulation action then could lawsuits challenge it saying if it was

unconstitutional in the first place actions should be voided? >> sure. you know, i think that that is something that you might see is that, you know, people come,e, come in and -- challenge actions that they've already taken.pe against company it is you know claiming that they're unconstitutional. but moving forward because now the agency is under the supervision of the president you might not see those challenges.e but i can definitely see legal challenges coming forth about past action. >> what was the reaction from the white house? >> the white house you know basically said this is a twook and it dunts change had cfpb and doesn't seem too concerned about it. senator elizabeth warren this agency is her brain child and so she said, you know, we're going to appeal this decision. and it will get overturned. you know, that's an option that cfpb has they can either ask the d.c. circuit for a full review of its decision by, you know, it

full roster of judges and instead of just the three that ruled in this case. or they can appeal directly to the supreme court. >> and who brought up the lawsuit in the first place? >> so this case was brought by phh corporation this was in new jersey mortgage lender that took the agency to court after cfpb signed it 109 million dollars for allegedly accepting kickback pes from mortgage insurers. so they -- that action kind of pushed them to, you know, to take the agency to court and argue something that republicans have is long been arguing which is that cfpb is unconstitutional.meen : lidia wheeler joining us on the the phone to talk about this court decision concerning financial protection bureau and reporter for the hill ms. wheeler thank you for your time. >> thank you so much for having me. >> for campaign 2016 coverage here on c-span two with a vermont governor's debate between republican phil scott,

democrat sue and former major league baseball player, bill lee of the liberty lee party debate raising minimum wage and future of farming economy and expanding background checks on gun purchases. ♪ >> live from the studios of vermont pbs in kull chester, the 2016 debate. tonight the governor for debate top issue in this important election season. here's moderator joe maron. >> good evening everyone and welcome to tonight's debate. for governor and from pbs i'm joe between the three candidates or vying to become vermont next and newest governor. let me introduce them to you now. first bill lee of liberty union party candidate. democrat sue from water bury. and republican phil scott is from berlin, vermont.

welcome to you all. i also look to introduce with me tonight neil who is bureau of the vermont press bureau. format is relatively straight for the. questions will come from myself, from neil, and later on in the portion and later portion of the program from a friend of the studio audience. questions will be introduced to all of the candidates each of them have one minute to answer. there maybe a follow-up and rebullets time devoted to each topic at end closing remarks of one minute a piece. our time keeper to keep everybody on time. welcome candidates to you all. first question. if you were elected, on november 8, you were going to have less than two months before you're sworn into next governor. two months to assemble a too many to set your agenda. you'll have a new legislator, legislature, and new legislative leadership as well. how are you going to hit the ground running? what is your top priority?

and how are you going to get to it, mr. lee? >> my best catcher iswine burger he drove me in for the winner of the vermont state championship. i have a lot of friends in this state that i take advice from, and i believe that they'll all help me out. you know, i did not come here seeking this job. it was pressed upon me by the liberty union party. they came to me and said you have to run. this is an open seat we need change in this state and you're the change. and i'm the guy that's going it lead you out of the woods because i am a gun-hunting right wing but i'm also have a liberal heart. you know, i do the memory cafe in montpelier and travis roy foundation all i do in this state is answer the phone and help people out. and i believe i'm the best candidate for that because i am neither a democrat nor republican and i'm not your problem. i'm your solution.

>> thank you very much. next up sue. >> begin by pulling together a strong team of leaders because that is what i do well. bring together teams, set up our challenges. face our challenges, establish goals and achiever those goals. what i know is i'm going to bring a team together to pox on the budget and on our mission. which is to create jobs and economic opportunity for vermont rs, to support middle-class family and their kids and give they will the opportunity to live, work, and stay right here in vermont. this is a critical time in our state. too many vermonters are struggling just to make ends meet because wages are not keeping up with the cost of living. women in this economy work 43% of women who work full-time still can't meet their basic needs. we need to change this story. and i'm going to be a governor with a great team leading us forward for a better future. >> phil scott how are you going

to hit the ground running? >> by doing just that. you know, it's first day is not a day for vacation, it is a day for getting to work and i've been working my whole adult 35 yearses in business. and during that time, i bring people together. i look forage. i look for team kem industries and that's something i've done with my race team, in politics bringing people together. consensus building. facilitating a team that will work together in order to rise to the challenge. that challenge we face, of course, is our economy. the crisis of affordability we face in vermont is real and it is going to take i have the us pulling in the same direction in order to accomplish what we need to accomplish. and that is really focusing on the budget. trying to develop that. and a short period of time and i'll be bringing together a lot of talented individuals. it's already shown interest in trying to bring vermont forward. >> all right let's scroll down a

little bit because two of you have mentioned the budget already. and by all accounts the budget you will have to -- face a 40 million deficit for an fya team budget so let's get some specifics. if question of to raise taxes or fees, to cover this deficit what are they going to be? if we have to cut something what is it going to be? question for the three of you? 40 million budget deficit mr. scott? >> well, i've already said we don't have to guess at this. i will not propose or sign a budget that grows faster than economy did in previous year our wages did and been a problem over the last seven years. the legislature has adopted a method of -- being over optimistic and their growth expectations. and during that time they've raised taxes and fees and raised the spending limits to about 700 million over the last seven years.

so i propose that we look back to last year, we don't have to guess at this. but look back at yes last year and see what wages grew and what the economy grow and if it grew at 1% then we cap the growth of the budget to 1%. it is as simple as that, and we'll find efficiencies we'll modernize state government. and we'll find the will to get through this without raising taxes and fees. [inaudible] i have specifics you can go to phil scott.org and economic plan and budget modern station. >> 40 million budget deficit -- >> so i have managed a $6 00 million budget balanced that budget every year as i ran the transportation agency first as deputy then as secretary. and i know what it takes. we had every year changes in whether the federal dollars were going to come or not and i know it takes scenario planning. i know it takes choices between

what we spend and what we with don't and how reprioritize but i want to say one thing that's important because filth has not mentioned what he's planning to cut. now, we know last year when the budget was presented and the republicans in the house presented how they would banish -- balance a budget they propose cuts to child care subsidies. cuts to affordable housing. cuts to college tuition payments. cuts to our state colleges and even cut the commission on women. those are not the way that i think are going to middle-class families and grow our economy. >> julie -- [inaudible] >> well i think our biggest problem is the fact that the whole paradigm is wrong. we've got too many big farms, bst we've got all of these pollutants sprayed on fields, more cancer, more disease in this state, and i believe we've got to go small. i believe we've got to get out there and be more

multidimensional take our large farms. maybe make them small is bred basket with global warming we can raise grape on every sorn exposure you put your solar panel with your grape and everything else, and you're looking at the northeast kingdom we're doing well up there. why? because we've got out of the box. we're starting to get breweries up there, best cheese, beet greens, they can serve one p 1,000 families and if you get 100 farms like that every year in six years you can feed everybody in vermont for reasonable price and you're going to be able to feed them the right way. you're not going to have additives in your food and how do you get it in you get taxes you tax the bad stoves and you make people either better and not in the hospitals and not doctors offices and they're strong and -- >> stay with the budget for a succeed here. neil. second you mentioned the republican proposal, the year or two ago, and you're going to be

entering office if you win with a $40 mt budget gap you have to raise revenue. so if you're not planning to cut what revenue will you raise and how will you raise it? >> so right now what we know is that our revenues are not keeping up with the projection but we have a long way to go between now and january. question of to see how the next quarter revenues come in. i have seen extraordinary fluctuations having watched how the transportation fund has gone up and down. so i'm not beginning to put anything on the table until i know exactly what we're coming up with. as you know, it changes with every quarter. and i think it's important to be saying, with what is going to happen at that time? what i do know is what i won't raise is new sales or service taxes that are going to hurt the middle-class. you know, i looked at phil's economic development plan, and what i saw were tax breaks. primarily for corporations and the wealthy, and i don't see any

way that he has to pay for them. >> get back to taxes shortly. but lieutenant governor scott i want to ask is you, you propose a plan save one penmy or cut one penny for every dollar spent? state government. as you know there are contract obligation that state has for salary, health care, things that you will not be able to save a penny u off of which focuses the burden in other areas. so knowing that you can't cut a fenny from every dollar, which dollars will you really be looking at and which programs will you be looking at? >> this is a goal we look at it in our daily lives web save a penny for every dollar we spend and i'm sure we can find savings and find savings in state government as well and we're not looking hard enough? and we can't tax our way out of the situation we're in. that's what's been happening for last seven years. sue has a tax on services, sue has proposed a carbon tax. sue has propose ptd a way of this cape and trade scheme.

that's not the way to get ourselves out of the situation we find ourselves in. we're in a hole right now and we should stop dig and we're going to have to tighten our belts and find some savings in efficiencies within government and we're going to work our way out of this. but we can't tax our way out of it. that's not a way to grow the economy. >> so you did embrace the idea of at least looking at sales tax based on blue ribbon commission report that cam out a number of years ago. since -- since you minced that you were interested in looking at that report, you put out more specifics saying would not tax any service that is used by the middle-class. ...

i will not add new sales or service taxes that hurt middle-class vermonters. what i will do is look for those loopholes that are benefiting wealthy people such as exemptions for lobbyists, exemptions for limousine rides. the interest payment on second homes. but those things will help middle-class whitewater want to point out is that phil and his friends in the republican party have been claiming falsely that i have proposed a carbon tax. it is sounding more a national republican talking points. i want to make it clear that i

have a strategy to look at climate change, to address our carbon emissions, to build on every successful program called the gas initiative. >> we will move right to transportation. mr. lee, before the budget and taxes if you like to have a closing comment. lee: raise the minimum come for people working, go by mcdonald's and they said they will jump on $10. they will not survive on $10. tax the trashed mcdonald's throws on the site of the road. bud lite committed to 5 cents for 1 cent raise the tax on cans to 10 cents. every trip i go cross-country skiing on when the snow melts there's nothing but bud lite can't all around america. drink locally, think globally. if you raise the minimum wage up high people will make more money and there will be more taxes around. pay people what they are worth. that's the problem on this plan. we haven't done that and we've got to start doing that. you know, you don't expect

trickle-down from reagan. reagan didn't work. none of that work. trickle-down does not work. that's a prostate disease or something like that because i'm telling you, you've got to tax the 2%. bernie was right. bernie has always been right. i knew him when they were throwing cans at them down on the street yazidis let's talk transportation. i don't think anyone would argue vermont's bridges, roads and infrastructure never seems to get the maintenance and the dollars needed for repair and upkeep. furthermore, pollution, climate change concerns, relatively carbon emissions is always an issue. with the gasoline tax and uncertain income, that we pay for our transportation needs going forward? mr. lee. lee: use of the militia. use all these guys they got the tanks in everything and they're doing that. taken up, don't send it to iraq or iran like rumsfeld said

looking for the weapons of mass destruction. rumsfeld had the receipt for them. we gave him to get an 82. you don't send vermonters out of the state to fight wars. i had to bury two of them up there and every time damned religious rights group came up there and i go out there and the wave the american flag and he would are fighting for our lives. you take the people in the state can join the militia, keep your guns and to go out there and to fix the roads. everybody fixes the roads because they are falling apart go back to the old way prefix roads with the granite think the about, make the roads would be used to be. let's make vermont look the way you still long time ago. minter: i've been working housing or transportation budget for the last six years and $609 budget. i'll tell you we've been having to work on improving maintenance. when as in the legislature in 2009 we had to find out bridges

were closing all around the state. we did a study, 20% of our bridges were structurally deficient. we worked bipartisan to come up with a plan to we passed the transportation infrastructure bond fund. i had the opportunity and manage the agency focus on innovation and efficiency. we created an accelerated bridge program. we are building bridges faster, cheaper and smarter. we've come from 20% bridges structurally deficient to just 7% the i know how to manage, how to innovate, how to make deficiencies and make government work because we have to make sure we don't let our bridges fall down ever again. yazidis mr. scott, the topic is transportation trends of this is part of what drove into politics. there was the rate of the transportation fund of about 20 years ago to the tune of about 50 something million dollars every single year that was used for other purposes.

that's when i decided to step up because i thought we should do better. our roads and infrastructure within the. i am pleased to say during my years in the senate were able to reduce that from $50 million down to a more manageable 15-$20 million. that goes through the state police. i think i was a step in the right direction. that was done, the rate of transportation fund was done over 10-20 year period. if we had invested in infrastructure at that point we would not have the problem today. i don't believe we should be taxing our way out of this. we don't need to raise the taxes on already overburdened vermonters. you can't afford to. they can't afford to. we are going to to look for federal initiative in order to solve this issue. >> moderator: the future is different, is looking very different with less gasoline used, electric cars, et cetera. is it time for a mileage tax? is a time for some alternative

form of tax to transportation needs? scott: the federal skip the need to start talking about something different, i agree. but not here in for more. we can't be doing something different than the rest of the country. minter: i am very focused and have been for six years on this very matter. it is critically important not just to fix a roads and bridges but to help vermonters and americans get out of their cars. by focusing on public? >> guest: , by right shake him by getting people to walk, by having sidewalks and bike lanes. that's what i've been working on the increasing use of public transit. we will need to change people's driving behavior and get more people into electric cars. this will make an enormous change in how we reduce our carbon emission. transportation is 46% of our carbon footprint and vermont. that's what i propose a plan to build on the successful regional

greenhouse gas initiative started under governor douglas to build transportation into this. we can work together as the region to help reduce carbon emissions, help reduce the amount we have to rely on our cars, and really move forward to address climate change. lee: we have a system in venezuela called -- and anybody that needs a ride puts his finger down, and for a riau you chip in his car and go as far as he goes on that same road. then when you to get out and change course, you put your finger down and for a real, which is the minimum amount, you get another right. people helping other people. i pick up hitchhikers all the time and some of them come the temple dystopic as they see my longer and. and everything like that and to give ago as billy, he's all right. he's not going to hurt us. we've got to be more friendly, use more trained. we got to get out of this gas glut we are in. i'm telling you, it's down.

as low as it's going to be. it's cheaper than water. that is amazingly cheap but it ain't going to last forever. this is, we are the 49th dog in this nation. we are that big. only wyoming the small business. go out and get a bigger dog tonight if s. is a cheap as it's been, do we have the capacity to adjust the tax on it a penny or two or three or five? lee: it's not going to be low forever. it's going to go back. you can see it. they are just waiting for that moment. these gas companies liquidity down in the hurricane yesterday. they jumped the price of 40 cents at the gas pump. don't go to florida. if you're retired don't go there. i do a farmer who was there, three months later he was dead. stay up here. get back on the farm and do the right thing. o'dowd for a little break on something like that but yeah, we've got to get off the gas glut.

i was a hitchhiker, people picked me up. i'm not jack reach her, but i wish i was. >> moderator: a follow up on transportation defensive vermont has been stressing -- >> particularly in the western quarter for a number of years. if you are elected would you commit your administration do not on pursuing rail, but committing funds to completing the western corridor project? lieutenant governor scott. scott: this is something we've been working on in transportation were numbered years. it's something we've been working with the federal government, delegation with, congressman welch was on sentence petition with me. when we started talking about this and trying to bring the montrealer back. some of the border concerns are some of what prevent us from going into further. we are going to solve that problem as well as. it's imperative that we continue to fix the western corridors so

we can have passenger rail come from new york city right to burlington here and then hopefully be on into montréal. that will help in all kinds of giveaways from tourism to trade, and freight as well. that would be something that i would focus on and something we've been focusing on for a number of years. minter: absolutely. for the last six years i've been working so hard and our team has been aggressively pursuing federal grants. we've increase over $100 million of investment in the western corridor rail program. we are 12 miles away from getting rutland from getting ethan allen from rutland to the queen city. this is going to make a huge difference and it's going to go from there. on the eastern side i'm so excited about the progress we've made. we have been negotiating for the last three years with the province of québec. believe it or not we have to negotiate with the province of québec, the state of new york,

the state of massachusetts and connecticut because we are all in agreement with amtrak. and have made huge progress, and i'm so ready to be that government to actually get it done. i have been in peace negotiations. we have made huge progress on getting a facility in downtown montréal so people can go straight from the border a cross. very difficult, very important, and i'm ready to do it. lee: i crossed the border all the time that i have a radio show in montréal. i'm lucky. i played up there. i could report. the mayor loves me. he wants to bring me -- bring the expos back. guys on the federal level, we've got to have a pac that we can go up anytime we want. we can come back anytime we want. at how so that you to come back, it's just embarrassing. i feel so bad about it because with the red sox went out there,

they have to pass through here. the yankees have to pass through the western side of the state. all this plan has the potential coming to our state and having on to montréal. i voiced in a train guy. i write trained all the time. i wrote them down in spring training. there's nothing more romantic than taking the train across canada. and seeing the end of your train come by twice on a curve. it's like go there, take a train, get rid of your car, shoot your car, shoot or television. thank you. >> moderator: would you like to clarify your position on carbon tax? minter: i do not support a carbon tax for vermont. what i am looking forward to is building on the work that i can get on for the last three years in the transportation agency, working with other states throughout the northeast region. i was the president of the national association, the northeast association of state

transportation officials. we have initiatives to work as the region. it take strong leadership to build successful policy regionwide. that's what i want to continue the work i have been doing on expanding the regional greenhouse gas initiative. this program which was started under governor douglas reduced carbon emissions throughout the northeast by 24% and brought over $10 million to vermont to invest in energy efficiency and renewable efficiencies. this is what we can do when we build a transportation sector into the greenhouse gas initiative. i'm excited to be the leader that it takes to work collaboratively across the region. >> moderator: mr. scott, carbon tax. scott: it sound like she support carbon tax. whether it's originally for the state, it sure sounds that way. i'm not in favor of the carbon tax. if a carbon tax came to my desk as governor i would veto it

consequences for you to understand policies that relate to reducing emissions. the greenhouse gas initiative is actually a cap-and-trade program where states like vermont that reduce emissions receive benefits in terms of investment, just like we have received on the electric side. we received over a million dollars of investment. we will be able to receive investments, not taxes, for alternatives to the single occupancy vehicles, for rail, hoping to get rail back in our transit. this is what we can do when we work together to reduce our emissions and vermont. those states that the above the cab will have to invest in what we need, transferring out energy economy to a non-carbon-based economy cannot find the words. scott: cap-and-trade in california cost them 11 cents a gallon the that sounds like another tax increase.

we had a carbon tax and the cap-and-trade. it sounds expensive to me. we are already overburdened by taxes as it is. we don't need anymore. >> moderator: quickly, sue minter. minter: fuel is being supported in this election $1.2 million funded by the national republican governors association and the oil billionaire koch brothers. do you know why they been opposing a cap-and-trade in california for the last decade? do you know why this is such an issue? we cannot let out a state oil tycoons by this election. i am surprised to find phil scott going to national republican line to talk about climate change as if it is not a problem. we have to come together around this problem. i'm a change is real. it's happening right in vermont. it's affecting jobs. let's think about last winter. what happened in the northeast

kingdom when the snow machines didn't, to the general stores? what happened to the snowplow drivers that couldn't get work? what is happening when we lose our winters? this is cities. this is why we have to come together. we need leaders who are going to address this critical issue. scott: those of us who lived in the kingdom kind of liked it. you know, i had to shovel my driveway four times and i go all mac, that's unbelievable. you know, what of those lifestyle for us with a set the credits down to connecticut. it's all because of the koch brothers, you're right about that, but you've got to get out, you've got to get out of it with the gas dependency. the fracking and stuff. you are ruining your water. you've got, these are all symptoms of problems. the problem is the fact that we are ruining our environment. we are just killing it. you never see and hear it beating down on the river anymore running through past

year. they go through there like they are on fire because they are on fire. they only eat up in the high pastures nowadays because that's the only food that hasn't been sprayed or anything else. we have ruined our rivers. we have ruined our very. nice shot our cows right in ass from monsanto and your drinking that stuff. it's killing you. you wonder why we don't live too long? that's the problem kind of thank you very much. if you're just joining us it's 8:00. this is the vermont pbs gubernatorial debate, candidate billy, sue minter and phil scott are here. we have another hour to go in this debate. and next week i would like to invite you to come back at the same time for the beginning of this debate right on vermont pbs. it was also mentioned during your opening questions, college i heard once or twice. vermont has a high rate of student high school graduation. but actually a low number of students who go on to college. one of the lowest in the

country. a poll shows 84% of respondents don't think education got high school is affordable to most vermonters. there's a lot said this you on the national about free college tuition to is this something we can be interested at the state level a is this something we can do or is this campaign talk? esther scott. scott: we want to have an affordable education for our youth, that could come in all kinds of different ways. i think tech education something we should will be taking a look at. i'm a product of the vocational program when i went to spaulding high school. i did it my afternoons in vocational training and i did my mornings in college prep before going on to the university and i wanted to be a tech ed teacher. i don't think we focus enough on the traits and i believe that our school systems we should reinstitute industrial arts, more tech ed, more maker space

to tap into the creative minds of the youth. i think it's going to be a traitor can be the future, the service technician for the future. they're going to need some training. two years would be enough. we should also make it affordable by cutting down the cost of borrowing more than anything else. my daughter went to school in rhode island. she came out with debt, and the sallie mae of the world came in with 9% interest rate after she obtained financing. minter: i have made college affordability a centerpiece of my campaign. why? because right now two-thirds of the jobs of the 21st century requires some kind of education and training beyond high school. here in vermont while we do great job of getting kids to high school, we do a very weak job getting them beyond.

four out of 10 vermont high school graduates are not continuing. that's what i proposed vermont promise, to use a tuition free community or technical college, to get the next generation the opportunity for qualifying or livable wage jobs and economic security. it is critical because when i'm traveling and talking to the businesses, they cannot find qualified workers. we need to invest in the students to make the workforce to go out economy. this is my vermont promise. i'm committed to this and yes, we can turn the mr. obey, can we offer free college tuition? that the us. it's a race to the top which, of course, there was no child from behind or, no child, that's very catholic of me. no child left behind by the bush administration which was terrible but it was terrible and then all of a sudden was race to the top by the democrats. which is not right.

you have to be diversified in your education to if you don't have jobs at the end of it what good is your education? you can all of you want but all of our kids are leaving the state said that you were diversified. you have to jobs at the end of the. you've got to be more of a dimensional. you have to be a generalist not a specialist that's what's wrong with our educational system. they are trying to make a specialized we've got to be a generalist. i'm a bonded locksmith. i pitched for 14 years. i'm still pitching today. i'm still pretty healthy. i do a lot of different things. i did my potatoes by hand. i hate the lawnmower and a weed wacker's they all those things the police around the allow and rate them yourself. that's what we've got to do. you need a healthier body and then we will bring about the education. >> moderator: is there a price tag? minter: we will be raising $6 million in the first year through a bank franchise fee on

large banks with over $750 million worth of deposits. listen, we can't afford not to do this. right now with four out of 10 kids not going beyond common we see a group of generational poverty. kids, it just be enough to have a high school diploma but it's not anymore. that's why we have to be thinking about the future. we have 40% of kids coming to kindergarten already children in vermont and four out of 10 not going beyond. what does that mean for the future of our vermont? what does it mean for the future of our economy works we must invest in these students. and you get an associates degree you earn on average of 12,000 more per year. with a bachelors degree you earn on average 32000 more per year. that's what vermonters need. they need in education, qualifications ending the great paying jobs so that they can live and work in stay right here in vermont.

>> moderator: is a part of the plant interest you? scott: here we go again. nothing is free. somebody has to pay. she's going to raise taxes on somebody. there will be a fee increase for the big banks and into a magical bank account that that's going to come out of. they are going to charge us. we are going to pay for it in some way. whether it's in checking account fees or fees in your banks. somebody has to pay. nothing is free. i think we need to make college more affordable and attainable for those who want to do it. having something free doesn't necessarily make it sound. i was able to give the advancement address to ccd a couple years ago. that was so inspired by what i saw as they walked across the stage to receive their diploma. some of them having kids that were grown up at their side and

you could see it across their faces, the sense of appreciation they had with the education that they earned and worked for. >> moderator: you can respond try to i want to talk about why they go after big banks to be partners with us. first of all they had a commitment to reinvest in communities. they also over the last 10 years of that pretty much a flat line in terms of how much they've invested into the general fund. over the last decade they paid about 10.3 million in 2007. testing what else property taxes been flat? i don't think so. i think the banks can pay their fair share so our students get a fair shake so we have a future with kids who have a job and economic security so they can be participants in our economy and use the resources of the bank. it surprises me when i hear no plans for college affordability, but all i get is that we can't do anything.

we have to take this on. we have to commit to the future generations because what else do we have for our future if we are not supporting our kids? these are people who are not going to go on. it isn't free. they will have to get community service and they love volunteer mentors to help peter champions. >> we go after the banks because as eddie sutton said that's where the money is. they are the guys who have it all. they are the guys who keep it. they give it to us, lend it out to us like it's african gold or something like that. people can get money. they can't get it because of the things to look at the big sure to get the big short had won the academy award, bernie sanders would be president of the united states. what happened? spotlight. they went after the catholic but they are always going after the catholics. that's the difference. >> would any of you pursue loan

forgiveness or other ways to reduce student debt here in vermont in exchange for bribes students agreeing to stay and work in vermont? lee: sorry, i wasn't paying attention. student debt forgiveness. lee: sure i believe we should all be public servant that you should donate two years under life in the state to helping the state. i believe in always, what kennedy said when he started, actually it was his brother love started the service went out, we profess the united states, we were the best. we would go out into everything. what do we do? we go to nations and all we do is we throw drones at them and everything else. it's an embarrassment. i am so upset with the way this country is headed in the last 20 years after the freedom of information act and all the thing went down on us. i am upset.

i let you forget is that everybody. i wouldn't have put out at you up and go out and work on the roads ethics bridges because we put them in there because we created a society that made them criminals. eugene debs, look it up. minter: look, if are doing debt forgiveness, we need a revenue source for that. i would prefer to not let our kids go into debt and that only those kids who can actually manage to get into the process. let's talk about the kids decide at the 60 whether or not able to spy beyond high school. we need to give them hope. we need them to the volunteer mentors that my vermont promise program will have. so they can go into college. so they can add to your to it's going to cost the same is only going to those who have the capacity to get in, took out those forms and to actually believe that they can do it. there's a whole generation of kids who are not going beyond high school.

if we want to break the generational cycle of poverty, if we want to go economic opportunity and security for the next generation, we've got to give them a chance. that's my vermont promise. you are going to pay for it away. i would rather give it to the up front and give them a chance. scott: let's look at what the real problem is the we have a demographic issue in this state. we have a population that is stacked at the we are losing this category from 25-45 we lost 3000 people out of the category alone. those are the folks that buy homes, have families, utilize services, byproduct and pay taxes. that's what we need to rebuild. we have fertile ground. we have 10,000 college students every single year in the state the graduate. so they are the ones we should be asking them what is going to take to keep you quit i think what they tell you is what opportunity, affordable housing and you want to be able to live and afford to live here.

what we're doing when you hear all the schemes of raising taxes and spending more money, we are not focusing on the economy. we are not focusing on the opportunity and ordered to have to be able to stay here and be able to live here. as well as our seniors. the affordability crisis is the real problem. lee: we also have a declining enrollment in our vermont state colleges. scott: i think jeb spaulding has done a great job. that was a good move to merge the two. i think we're going to have to look at other opportunities it again, if to make for a better from a so we can have more opportunity, i think we'll have more economic opportunity as well for our higher ed institutions. they are part of our economy as well. and an important part. minter: i think by plans to exactly what we just been talking about, helping to keep

young people here in putting more students into our state college system. we can debate the vermonters to come, the students to stay. we need to create great communities. that's why and this robot is all about, great communities, livable wage jobs, affordable housing just like we did in barry wood that $19 million in public investment into the downtown and leveraged over $47 of private investment. that's a we can do around the state. that's was going to bring young people to stay. young entrepreneurs. i have the plans to do this. we're talking about cutting taxes. i do see a that is anything but a republican talking point that isn't going to solve our problems. i have real plans to make this work. i want to bring people here and young people. i have an outdoors play. let's build on our great recreational assets. that's what young people want to come to vermont to do, to have

new jobs, we can do that. >> moderator: it's time for health care. let's switch over. if you don't know it by now, 97% of our citizens are covered under act 48. enacted years ago. one of the best incentives in united states. vermont health connect the system they created has been riddled with numerous problems, i do think i'm telling you anything you don't know. under your administration, simply put for our audience would go from you on health care, mr. scott? scott: first of august 2 pull the plug on vermont health connect. it's simple. we take a look at what's been happening over the last number of years. a number of failed promises along the way to shore up its ip structure that's dysfunctional. it's never worked a properly. we're still getting calls in our office every single day from people that are having problems accessing the system and getting changes in the system.

that's just come after spending over $200 million on this health initiative. you have to have the will, show the courage and leadership to say enough is enough. when you find yourself in a hole stop digging and we're still digging. what we need to do is transition to something else whether it's a federal exchange or going in with another state, whether it's connecticut or hawaii or somebody else. there's other alternatives to what we are doing. we have a custom-made i.t. structured no one else has. thank heavens. because they can't afford it. lee: you've got $200 million into the game and you're going to just tweak it a little bit, keep it going. take a lot of buses like bernie set and let's go up to montréal. i did shoot and $18 extra with all my orthopedic guys. i've had four operations up there. i get my implant and getting hit with a line drive and knocked t,