>> and now booktv's live coverage of the southern festival of books continues with historian adam hoax child and the -- hopings child and -- hoax child and the -- hocks child and the spanish civil war. >> a couple of quick announcements before he get started. as most of you know, the southern festival of books is free, and we are very thankful to our sponsors for that, but we also encourage all the participants to, please, donate to humanities tennessee, and you can do that at our web site or on our facebook page. the other thing i want you to know is that after the session, adam will be over in the

colonnade signing books, so as soon as the session ends, we'll head right over there, and you can get your book signed at that point. it is a thrill for me, my name's andy brennan, i'm with par nasties books, and when i got an advance copy of "spain in our heart," i thought it was a fantastic and important book, and i told adam a little while ago that that wasn't the case with king leopold's ghost. in that case his writing and the subject matter was so powerful that i found myself having to put it down regularly and take a breath before i could come back to it. but "spain many our hearts" -- in our hearts" is an incredible book, and we're very, very excited to have adam here. without further ado, adam hochschild. >> okay. thank you, andy. [applause] and it's good to see all of you here in nashville and to know that more of you are watching this on c-span.

so my book is about the spanish civil war, and i want to set the context for it by rolling back the clock to the 1930s which was a grim time. as you know here in the united states, we were in the depths of the great depression. nearly a quarter of the american population was out of work, another quarter were underemployed. 34 million americans lived in households with no wage earner, and abroad in europe in response to similar conditions even worse things were happening. some very nasty movements were on the rise. hitler was rising towards power in germany, took power in 19be 33. mussolini had already been in power in italy since the 1920s, and something we often forget, much of eastern europe was also under fascist or semi-fascist regimes of the far

right almost always with a very strong anti-semitic tinge. so it was a grim time. in the early 1930s one of the few bright spots in europe was spain. in 1931 after centuries of monarchy which had recently been mixed with a period of military dictatorship, there was an upheaval in spain, there were national elections, real national elections held for the first time. the king left the country, and a spanish republic elected by the people took power in 1931. it was still a country that had huge problems. the powerful, very reactionary hierarchy of the spanish catholic church was in charge of all education, there were enormous disparities of wealth, more than a quarter of the population were illiterate, millions of peasants had little

or no land, huge landowners had large estates of 70, 80,000 acres. but people all over the world felt under a democratic-elected government for the first time spain is in a position to do something about those problems. there was a further surge of optimism not just in spain, but elsewhere when in early 1936 a coalition of left and liberal parties won the spanish national elections, and now it seemed a pent-up hunger for social reform, more land reform, more secularization of education could happen even more rapidity. hen there was a shock wave -- then there was a shock wave felt around the world when in july of 1936 a large group of right-wing spanish army officers attempted to seize power.

they called themselves nationalists. what did they want? they wanted to restore the old spain, to roll back what little land reform had been done, to put education back in the hands of the catholic church and to stamp out all vestiges of democracy. they made no attempt to disguise the fact that they wanted to impose a military dictatorship. there would be no trappings of democratic elections, free press, free trade unions, anything like that. and these spanish nationalists very rapidly came under the leadership of a tough-talking young general named francisco franco. they were, or their attempt to seize power which initially seized in the first weeks of the revolt about one-third of the country and by the fall of 1936 about half the country, was heavily supported by the catholic church. you can see photographs of

bishops and cardinals giving that right-wing salute along with franco and his officers. and it was also heavily supported by hitler and mussolini who sent aircraft, artillery, rifles, ammunition, military advisors. mussolini eventually sent 80,000 ground troops to spain as well. it was an an extremely brutal civil war which, unlike most previous wars in europe, both sides deliberately targeted civilians. in territory controlled by the spanish nationalists, some 150,000 civilians were deliberately assassinated during the spanish civil war and some 20,000 afterwards. their crimes being that they had been municipal officials under the old regime, or they had

belonged to a labor union, or they had voted for one of the parties that won in the 1936 elections. there was similar violence, although not quite on such a large scale -- an estimated 49,000 deaths -- among civilians in territory held by the spanish republic where a particular target was the catholic clergy. nearly 7,000 priests, monks, nuns were put to death because the church was seen as being in league with the reactionary landowners and businessmen. government of the spanish republic desperately tried to fight on as best they could. most of the army's officers had gone with franco and the nationalists, and the republic had a terrible time getting arms. they appealed to the major democracies of the world -- britain, france, the united

states -- for the right to buy arms. and they had the money to buy those arms. they were not asking for military aid. but just for the right to buy arms. they had the money to buy those arms. why? because during the first world war, spain had very fortunately remained neutral and has prospered greatly trading with both sides while the rest of europe spent itself deep into debt and bankruptcy. but all the democracies refused. none of them wanted to get drawn into what looked like it could turn into another world war in europe. britain said no, france said no, and the united states said no. even though president roosevelt was somebody who knew and understood and hated what fascism was, but he too didn't want to get drawn into a european war at this point, and he knew that feeling in the united states was very strongly isolationists.

most americans didn't want a war. finally, in the fall of 1936 after the war had been raging for several months, the only government that was willing to sell the spanish republic arms was not another democracy. it was josef stalin's sow quote union. soviet union. and he demanded and got a lot of hippings in return -- things in return, namely, high positions in the spanish government and the spanish republican army high command for both soviet and spanish communists. but he did supply many return for payment -- in return for payment essential weapons; fighter planes, tanks, the crews to man them, other military supplies. and these were must have to prevent franco and the nationalists from capturing the capital, madrid, in the fall of 1936. stalin did something else as well which is that he passed the word to communist parties around

the world to begin recruiting volunteers to go and fight in spain be. these were the forces that became the famous international brigades. ultimately, some 35-40,000 people from more than 50 countries most -- though by no means all of them -- members of the communist parties of their various countries who with went to spain be. there were several thousand additional volunteers who went to spain who were not affiliated in any way with the communist movement. and these international brigades fought the toughest battles of the war. they suffered a casualty rate more than three times that of the rest of the spanish republican army. among them were 2800 americans, by far the largest group of americans who have ever gone off to fight in someone else's civil war.

and one of the things that drew me to write this book was that i knew a half a dozen of those men. all of them dead now, all of them 30 or 40 years older than me. two of them were fellow journalists of mine when e was a cub reporter at -- when i was a cub reporter at the san francisco chronicle in the 1930s. i was 22, and they were in their 50s. two others became very close friends of ours for many years, a couple of others i spent time with more briefly. and i used to listen to them talk about their experiences in the spanish civil war, and it was one of the things that made me interested in that time and place. why did these americans go to spain? be i think above all because -- i think above all because they, like millions of people around the world, felt that the greatest danger that the world faced then in the mid 1930s was rapidly-expanding fascism. the previous year, 1935,

mussolini had set off to conquer ethiopia and had done so, hitler had movedded into the rhineland, violating the treaties that ended world war i and was making noises about expanding eastward, finding germany living room, as he called it, in the east. so it was clear that fascism was on the rise. one young american volunteer who survived the war, maury of new york, later said for us it was never franco, it was always hitler. another volunteer, katz, who was actually a 23-year-old who had just finished his training as a rabbi wrote to his mother from spain several months before he was killed there saying that if he hadn't come to spain, forever afterwards i would ask myself why didn't i wake up when the alarm clock rang.

so here were these americans fighting in an extraordinarily brutal war that was really in many ways the opening battle of world war ii. where else, after all, were americans this uniform -- in uniform being bombed by nazi pilots? these were the planes that hitler had learned to franco four years before united states entered world war ii. so on one side of the war, the spanish republic, there were spaniards who supported the republic, these international volunteers, a small number of soviet aides, military advisers. on the other side were the spanish nationalists being heavily supported by hitler and mussolini. as i mentioned, mussolini sent, ultimately, 80,000 ground troops. hitler had about 5,000 men on ground in spain at any time.

most of them aviators or support for the aviation team, more than 100 aircraft. and for hitler, this war was not just a chance to bring a sympathetic dictator to power, it was a chance to try out a lot of the weapons that he was planning to use in the much larger war he was planning to start and, indeed, did start three years later. and a lot of the german weapons we know from that war, for example, the messer schmidt 109 fighter plane, mainstay in world war ii, the dive borne, the famous 88 mm germannal tillly piece -- artillery piece, all were used extensively in combat for the first time in spain. well, when you have such a dramatic and tragic piece of history, a book almost writes itself.

and sometimes i felt sort of as if i was steering a ship through this extraordinary period of time, and my only decision was which passengers to take onboard. in other words, through what characters was i going to tell this story. because i like to try to bring a piece of history alive by telling the story through the lives of a relatively small number of people, 8, 10, 12 people who lived through it. ideally, people whose lives intersected in one way or another, who loved each other or hated each oh or were fierce rival ares or were bound by family ties. and i found some of all of the above in spain. of course, as a historian unlike a novelist, you can't invent anything, you can't make anything up. you're limited to what people have left by the way of written

records in one way or another. but there were a lot from spain. letters, diaries, reports written in newspapers at the time. and these were the kinds of things that i used. by the way, do future historians favor and keep a diary. three of the people in my book kept diaries, and i i was referring to these all the time. ..

as was his wife marion. the two of them met each other as students at the university of nevada, got married on graduation day 1932 and moved to berkeley, california. a graduate student at the department of economics. and john kenneth calvert, reading through merryman's letters i almost fell off my chair, during their time in berkeley, they live four blocks from where i today and every time i walk from my house to the graduate school of journalism on campus where i teach a class i

walked past the building where they live so i felt a sort of unexpected tied to this young couple. when bob had been working his way through the university of nevada in the 1930s he had discovered you could earn an extra $8.50 a month which was a lot of money in the depression years by taking rotc so he did so. that meant when he got to spain as a volunteer several years later he was one of the few americans that had any kind of military training. he was almost immediately made commander of the battalion. and and in the hospital, and joined up as well, did clerical

work as one of the very few american women. there is a poignant love story, and in 1938 during a disaster win which many women lost their lives, bob went missing in action. and whether he had been killed or captured and then shot, but he was dead, wife marion resigned herself to that fact,

remarried, it became possible to do so went to spain several times, bob had last been seen alive in a hilltop, and the memoir, years, and 49 after the war, after the memoir, she received a letter in a broken mixture of english and spanish that reached her, it was sent to the campus of berkeley and was from a former spanish republican soldier who said i knew your husband, admired him greatly, i was with him when he died, here is what it was and what happened. anybody's memory is shaken after

the fact, people dispute whether the guy was remembered accurately but seemed to give his widow enormous release to receive this letter and she died in her sleep at the age of 82 a couple years later. when i went to stain -- spain after researching my book i went to a hilltop where bob perryman was last seen. i was intrigued by the merrymans because i found them extremely sympathetic to as people but they were diehard true believing members of the communist party and i wanted to have people of a variety of political affiliations in this book because that is how things were at the time and gave me a chance to explore the political issues people were grappling with. i follow a couple other volunteers as well, and one of

them i picked because he was distinctly non-communist, he felt communists act as if they have the correct answer for everything and have no of humor and if you made a joke in the communist party meeting it was treated as if you targeted the church. these were the only large organized forces gathering volunteers to fight in spain, so was to fight with them. his name was pat kearney, and fought the war with the american battalion, very shrewd observer and when he was badly wounded at one point he was sent to the american military hospital where he fell in love with an american nurse. and it is always fun, and

reconstruct a love affair, and, we have letters from her, and them both in spain. it doesn't happen at all the way he described them, another type of character i was interested in, the american journalists, several of them in spain and our hearts, it was a huge story, during the time of the spanish civil war from mid-1956 to 1939. and more than on any other single subject. president roosevelt's reelection, the rise of hitler. at one time or another, and i

avoid writing from people, who are already well known, if you are writing about americans in the civil war, you have to write about ernest hemingway, he was there for much of the war, later the great novel about it, the bill turns during the war, and a correspondent for the newspaper alliance, consortium some 50 newspapers, and recollections and letters, and such an obnoxious human being, and he is very much in this story, and and covered the war from opposite

sides, and on the side of the spanish republic, and, and william p carney, a colleague of matthews before the war, each of those was a partisan of the side of the government. each turn to complete blind eye, the 2 of them hated each other, always finding ways to throw barb's at each other, and in the columns of the new york times, and you can slip in little details that imply that.

carney, incidentally, and and a young and also forgotten journalist, and 26 years old in spain, never went to college, ever cover the war before, she had the best i, and the shrewdest pen of anybody there. and things that few other journalists do, she covered the war, spent time in the public and something very difficult, managed to get into nationalist and cover the war on that side.

and through one of my characters, i was interested in these journalists because i have done some reporting from overseas occasionally from conflict zones, one of the things i noticed in such areas is journalists always travel in packs, and it is reassuring to seek out other members of the profession and they practice a kind of herd behavior. i will give you an example from my own experience, nothing to do with spain, something that showed merely on keep an eye out for herd behavior among journalists.

in 1986, i was writing some magazine articles from south africa, and and a big massacre, and alexandra township, people were extremely riled up, a mass funeral, tens of thousands of people came, and when i went to cover the funeral i noticed a cluster of people from the press and one place in this enormous stadium, and the foreign correspondents, and at the center of the group. and the correspondents talking

to each other. they were trying to agree on an estimate for the size of the crowd so they all go with the same number and wouldn't get an angry message from the home office saying the other paper says twice as many people are there. in looking back to the war in spain, keeping my eye out for journalist herd behavior, and all the more true in spain because foreign correspondents covering the war for the spanish republic stay in the same hotel, the hotel florida. they ate dinner together every night in the same restaurant with a long table reserved for the foreign press. reporters keep a close eye on what the other person is reporting, nobody get that message from the editor at the home office saying the other

newspaper or other network reported this or that battle or this or that event or announcement, why haven't we heard about it from you? so stories of this great camaraderie among the press and how after these dinners everybody would then repair to hemingway's suite at the hotel florida for the drink, they show up in many people's memoirs. in that situation, what story did those heard of reporters, in spain there were two enormous ones. they were unreported, and the other one went entirely on reform. here is the first. in july 1936 when spanish nationalists made their grab to

seize power they hoped to take over the country in a matter of days and failed in that although they managed to see the heard of it. in spain's northeast especially the city of barcelona surrounding catalonia, the nationalists were defeated in their grab for power not by leaders in the republic's army as most officers went to the nationalists but by hastily organized, badly equipped militia units that had been set up by left-wing political parties and trade unions. these were the folks that defeated the nationalists in spain's northeast and when that happened working-class militias found themselves in control of a large swath of the spanish

republic. over the course of the next 6 or 8 months they put into effect the most substantial social revolution ever seen, workers took over factories, ford and general motors plants in barcelona got taken over by their workers, used the bank accounts these factories had to pay their militias and factories to making armored cars and other stuff that was needed by the military. the railway system got taken over by engineers and firemen, the trolley cars in barcelona got taken over by their workers and repainted in red and black occupying enormous estates where they once worked as landless labor is. in barcelona, the hotel ritz's

restaurant got taken over by its cooks, waiters and busboys and turned into people's cafeteria number one. all this stuff went almost entirely unreported by the foreign correspondents, they were too busy trying to keep up with each other reporting the different phases in the battle. admittedly that was an important story but this enormous social revolution was something that should have been reported and almost entirely wasn't. if you read anything about it, it was most likely in the wonderful memoir by george orwell, he went to spain as a volunteer, was in revolutionary barcelona at this time, deeply impressed with what he saw and wrote about them. he was not in spain is a

correspondent so i tried to portray this period through the eyes of two young americans, trying to tell this whole story, and here is what they were, they were a couple, lois and charles, lois had been at the university of louisville, kentucky and that spring she had married charles or who was an economics instructor at the university and they had gone to europe on their honeymoon. they were very political, they were leftists that staunchly anti-stalinist and for their honeymoon they wanted to see what was nazi germany like? they planned to travel to india and see british colonialism in india. when they were traveling in

france and germany they got word of this coup attempt in spain and this extraordinary social revolution that was taking place in spain and lois who was the livewire of this couple said somewhat older, stodgy or husband, we have to go there. hitchhiked to barcelona, arrive two month after the start of the war and spent the next 10 months weaving and working there. lois or wrote the most extraordinary series of letters home during this time reporting everything scene, she was 19 years old. she spent much of the rest of her life writing and rewriting a memoir of this period and she was never able to get published. but it is an amazing pair of eyes in which to see this

extraordinary event in spain. actually they knew george orwell because he came to barcelona at this time and his wife who also came to spain, worked in the same office with charles or. extraordinary people were drawn to spain at the time, those who came, mostly communist party members, they were appalled by what happened in the soviet union but here in spain, there seemed to be a revolution generally coming from the bottom up and not imposed from the top down like the bolsheviks. those are the eyes through which i try to see this aspect of what happened in that era. i will mention one other big story of the war that got

completely ignored by correspondents at the time and treated in a perfunctory way by historians since then. and here is what it is. those correspondents who spent hundreds of thousands of words describing the siege of madrid the which went on two years and involved, the first time the major european capital was under heavy sustained aerial bombardment by nazi planes, they never looked up at those planes, and wondered where is there fuel coming from, should have been an obvious question. nationalist spain had no oil wells, germany and italy which were supplying it with all those arms, hitler kept the strength of the german air arm and spain had 100 planes at all times.

germany and italy who were supplying arms were oil importers, not exporters. it would have been expensive for them to advance the money to buy oil on the market and indeed if he had bought oil on the world market, where would it most likely have come from? the world's major oil producer at the time, the united states. american neutrality legislation made it illegal not just to sell arms to spain but illegal to sell anything in spain if it were sold on credit and the nationalists had no cash or if it was transported in american ships and nationalist spain had no oil tankers. how could the nationalists be getting all their oil? nobody asked that question at the time.

then, as today oil companies make their own foreign policy and as it happens franco was a great admirer who happened to be head of in a major american oil company, he was the ceo of texaco. we think of major allies having been in berlin but here was one that was in office in the chrysler building in new york city, a big enthusiast for franco, went to nationalist spain twice in the war, got vip tour biplane of the front, and solved all of franco's problems, don't have money to pay for the oil no problem, we will give it to you on credit even though there was a violation of american law furthermore, reber sold franco a majority of his oil during the war and did so at

a discount, something which he never told shareholders about. it is not in any of the annual ports. as far as we can tell he never told his board of directors about this. not mentioned in their minutes. i mentioned the nationalist spain oil tankers, not a problem. texaco lost one of the largest fleet of oceangoing tankers and in another violation of us law the foil was shipped to spain in texaco tankers, what happened is tankers would load the texaco pipeline terminal in port arthur, texas and when us customs agents would get on board to inspect the cargo and ships papers and so on they would be shown papers showing the ship was bound for rotterdam or amsterdam, and the captains

would open field orders redirecting them to ports in nationalist spain. furthermore, reber did something else for franco which was this. businesses always tend to know what their rivals are doing and this is particularly true in the oil business because you can't disguise a large oil tanker taking cargo somewhere, texaco like any major national oil company had offices, installations, tank farms, agents all over the world and orders went out to those people saying send to mexico headquarters, any information you pick up about oil tankers heading for the spanish

republic. this information was immediately passed on to the spanish nationalists where it was the type of data, ships name, appearance, port of destination which was highly useful for bomber pilots, for target, during the course of the war, 29 oil tankers heading for spanish republics were sunk, damaged or captured and in one or two cases we can trace that directly to information by texaco so history books tell us the united states was neutral in the spanish civil war, but texaco decided which side it was on. these are the lesser-known stories of the spanish civil war. i hope you see why this period excited me and led me to want to write a book about it.

i have probably said enough. let me stop here on comments or questions. >> somebody have a question. there's a microphone on the right. speak into the mic the people on tv can here as well. >> two quick questions. could you comment on how the members of the international americans were treated after they returned to the united states and is it at all plausible the roosevelt administration did not know that texaco was shipping oil? >> first question, the american

volunteers who fought there were treated very badly when they came back to the united states. they had not in fact violated any american law by going to fight for spain, but this was a period when j edgar hoover was head of the fbi, riding high as he continued to do so for three decades afterwards and harassed these folks mercilessly sending fbi agents to question them, for years, decades, sending fbi agents to question their employers, are you employing a man who once fought in the communist army and so on and under those circumstances it is often hard for people to get or retain jobs so they were treated very badly. of the american veterans who survived the war, of those 2800 americans who went to spain more

than 750 were killed, a far higher death rate than the military suffered in either of the world wars. nonetheless when the us entered world war ii, more than 400 american veterans of spain joined the us military. how they got treated their varied, in some cases if commanding officers were very suspicious of them they might have had association with communism and so on. and other cases the commanding officer was smart enough to know there was someone who had what very few americans had which was recent military experience. your question about the roosevelt administration, the roosevelt administration did no texaco was selling oil to the nationalists, they did not know about all the intelligence information. that stuff was discovered by a

spanish scholar years later and he generously shared documents with me so neither roosevelt nor anybody else felt about that at the time, the administration did no texaco was selling oil to the nationalists, they made a halfhearted effort to prosecute them, at one point according to roosevelt's attorney general, roosevelt declared himself in favor of vigorous prosecution but then he backed off because all of them got a slap on the wrist and a few thousand dollars fine and they kept on selling them to the end of the war. exactly what was going on we don't know.

but most historians believe when he ran for reelection in 1936 roosevelt promised the hierarchy of the american catholic church that he would not been in any way in the spanish civil war. he must have interpreted that for prosecution against texaco. that is just speculation on my part. that is my answer to that. >> i loved it, brought to life that time. most of us with knowledge of the spanish civil war from ernest hemingway, think of it as communist versus nationalist and i appreciate that you went into detail about anarchists who took over the eastern part of the country. tell me more about locations between on august northeast and communist government that ends

up taking over in madrid. >> a very complicated situation and whatever i say about it somebody will disagree. it has to be an oversimplification. broadly speaking here is what it was. when the coup happened, the government of the spanish republic was a shaky coalition of a number of political parties. at that time, mid-1936, the spanish communist party was small and not very influential, had 16 letters of parliament out of 500. the mainstream parties of the republic were a socialist party which was split to right or left

wing, the spanish anarchists who were the main force behind the social revolution did not believe in participating in elections and have not participated in the election of early 1936. however, one of the core intervals of european anarchism of the time which largely died out in europe except in spain, but one of their core principles with the belief that governments, like corporations and churches and anything else you can think of should be abolished so they haven't participated in those elections in 1936, after the war began, clearly a fight for republican survival and the anarchists did something they had never done before which was allowed themselves to be taken into the

republic government and four anarchists joined the cabinet. as the war went on the leverage, and the communist party and those elements of socialist party cooperate with them increasing and increasing power and had more influence and by the time the war endeded, roughly half of the army divisions and army corpss were under communist commanders so they steadily gained influence, and eager to suppress this anarchist led social revolution in the spanish northeast partly

because they believed in revolution top-down, they were terrified the rest of the world perceives spain as revolutionary society, the united states, britain and france would never relent in their decision not to sell the republic arms. there were tantalizing hints that france and the united states might relent in that decision so the republic government was able to suppress the social revolution in the northeast. furthermore i think it was not irrational that one should want to go slow in the social revolution was making an effective revolution is difficult to do, has rarely been done successfully in history and

is a particularly difficult thing to do in the midst of the war because wars call for discipline, sacrifice, hierarchy, in ways that are pretty hard to avoid. all these are the opposite of what the spanish anarchists stood for even though in many ways i find the spirit of what they tried to do immensely admirable. >> thank you all very much. we are out of time for this session but adam will be up in the colonnade to sign it if you have additional questions he will answer them then. thank you again. [applause] or smack

>> booktv live in nashville from the southern festival of books. to get our schedule go to booktv.org, more authors in ten minutes. >> the phenomena and went like this, which existed in all times and places the tao is it possible imagination could deliver the same conceit across cultures, and which is so preposterous you couldn't make it up. the possibility of a shared delusion was the most compelling to believe in witchcraft, not to subscribe to it, 92, a troublemaker, could be someone who denied the existence of

witchcraft. faith aside it served a purpose, made sense of the unfortunate and eerie sick child and disappearing scissors. what else, shrugged one husband in court, would have caused those black and blue marks on his wife's arms. one interesting thing about the trial, it came to an end because the scope of the crisis, could there really be that many witches living around massachusetts? it would appear to be an overzealous court, carefully, quietly and anonymously, began to speak up. a few of them questioned the existence of witchcraft. it issue, the difficulty in identifying it, many would believe in us ands died in 1692 but most also believed guilty witches had escaped. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org.

>> here's a look at some authors recently featured on booktv's afterwards, weekly author interview program, former state department official mary thompson jones discuss the investigation of thousands of leaked diplomatic cable on the face the nation moderator john dickerson remembered important moment in the presidential campaigns and representative david pratt talked about his time in congress and economic challenges facing the country. and coming weeks on afterwards former goldman sachs vice president will talk about her experience as an undocumented immigrant. kim we will explain the way society is shaped by advertising and coming up bain capital cofounder edward connor will argue income any quality contributes to economic growth and this weekend on afterwards temple university professor sarah rath describes possible solutions to rising college

tuition costs. >> i was at temple university and one of our programs does something that in my study worked, pay students not to work, students need money and if they can get it from grants instead of through working they can take more classes and work less and less distracted and can spend more time on school. >> afterwards airs on booktv at 10:00 pm and sunday at 9:00 pm eastern time. you can watch all previous afterwards programs on our website, booktv.org. >> on june 17, 2015, south carolinian dylan roof, a white, unemployed, 21-year-old high school dropout, was on a mission to take his country back. ever since george zimmerman walked out of the courthouse a

free man after killing trayvon martin and a racially polarized nation debated the verdict, roof looked to understand the history of america, trolling through the internet, stumbled across the council of conservative citizens. the progeny of the 1950s white citizens council that terrorized black people, closed schools and worked hand-in-hand to the 5 federal civil rights laws but despite the group's about racist belief system, in the mid to late 1990s as the southern poverty law center reports, the group boasted of having 34 members in the mississippi legislature and powerful republican party allies and then senate majority leader trent lott of mississippi. by 2004, this is to be governor

haley barbour, the chair of the republican national committee and 37 other powerful politicians all ascended events in the 21st century. earl holt, the chair, gave $65,000 to republican campaign funds in recent years including donations to the 2016 presidential campaigns of rand paul, rick santorum and ted cruz. enjoyed precisely the cachet of respectability that racism requires to achieve its own goals within american society. the website of hatred and lies provided self-serving education dylan roof craved, he drank in the poison of the message, got into his car, drove to

charleston, entered the manual amd church and landed in a bible study with a group of african-americans who were the very model of respectability. he prayed with them, read the bible, thought they were so nice, and shot them dead, leaving just one woman alive so she could tell the world what he had done and why you are taking over our country, he said. he knew this was true. not even a full month after dylan roof gun down tween 9 african-americans at the manual amd at charleston, south carolina, republican presidential front-runner donald trump fired up his silent majority audience of thousands in july 2015 with a macabre promise, don't worry, we will take our country back.

>> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> we are back live in nashville. next, authors randall horton and michael mccray discuss their books, this is booktv on c-span2. [inaudible conversations] >> good afternoon. my name is mary gray james and i welcome you to the southern festival of books session on forgiveness and what forgiveness really means. life in and after prison. our office today can