the briefing for th the debateso give audiences a:30 and the 90 minute debate is 9 p.m.. stay with us following the debate for the reactions including calls and facebook postings and watch the debate live or on-demand watching your phone or tablet. listen to live coverage on your phone with a free radio app, download it from the store or google play. in washington state senate race republican chris vance is

challenging patty murray seeking a fifth term. the candidates debated each other on sunday and answered questions about guns and international trade aninternatie minimum wage. this debate at the university in spokane washington is the first of two debates. [applause] good evening, everybody. tonight's debate is hosted by the washington state' debate coalition in collaboration with the university, washington state university spokane east east university, community colleges of spokane and whitworth university. seattle city club founded the coalition to enhance access to informatioinformation, nonpartin political debates. tonight's debate is made possible by the financial support of the sponsors in washington state and microsoft. supporting the henry m. jackson foundation and individual donors

to the seattle city club. the audience here and across the state can participate using the hash tag. i would like to introduce the candidates now, democrat patty murray and chris vance that have been briefed on the rules and we will begin with opening statements. patty merry won the coin toss backstage so we will start with you. >> thank you very much. good evening and thank you to the coalition for putting this together and hosting this tonight and all of you that are here tonight as well as those of you that are listening and. it's great to be here with you. like most people, i get pretty frustrated with the dysfunction and gridlock in washington, d.c.. i remember particularly one very bad year no one could talk to anyone. everybody was fighting and we were facing fiscal clips.

a lot of uncertainty and automatic budget cuts that were coming down. i came to washington state and came here and went to the michael anderson school and talked to the teachers and parents and students that were there and they told me they were so worried about the students ss would be impacted on their education. i talked to civilian employees that were being furloughed one day a week and they were afraid they were not good to be able to pay their rent or put food on the table. i talked to parents that were being told of thei that their ps were going to be shut down and business leaders that told me the customers overseas were beginning to think the country couldn't function so when the government shuts down i went to work with the congressman. we come from different perspectives but he did agree we need to return respect to the

nation and work together to bring our country to move forward again so we work hard and put together a budget agreement. it certainly brought us certainty and we were able to restore the investments that i heard about here and we got the country moving again. i was born and raised here in the state. my parents instilled in me the work ethic of washington state. you go to work, you work hard and keep persevering until you get the job done. i come home every weekend and talk to people in the states to hear their concerns about making sure their kids can afford to go to college and live in the neighborhood and if they have the security for social security and medicare they worked hard all their life.

those are the stories along with the work ethic i take back every monday morning when i fly back and go to work to make sure that the policies and investments work for our state and finally, let me say tonight like everyone, i am so appalled by the behavior of this election and we need to return respect so i hope we can be respectful tonight even if we disagree and show by example that it can be done. >> thank you to the debate coalition and absolutely, senator, i'm looking forward to a respectful discussion. we are all in a good mood after the seahawks victory at least i am. i'm happy to have lived in our beautiful state my entire life. my wife and i met at the university married for 28 years we've been blessed with two

great kids sitting behind me in the first row, our daughter is a cougar and our son is a husky. i've been proud to represent our community as a member of the house of representatives and as a matter of the city council and a statewide leader of my party. now i'm running for the senate because like you i'm fe i am fep with washington, d.c.. america faces real challenges and demands solutions. our national security is threatened, social security and medicare are going broke and we are nearly $20 trillion in debt and now the political system is melted down. congress is a mess and cannot solve any problems in our political parties dominated to people for presented to the majority of us don't approve of. there are answers to these problems if you go to my website you will find issue papers to talk about how i feel about the

issues and i'm sure we will talk in depth about issues tonight but there is one main point i want to leave with you. washington, d.c. is broken. with all due respect she talks about washington, d.c. as if she's never been there. the truth is after 24 years in the senate, patty murray is part of the problem. whoever is elected president, we need new independent leadership in the senate to bring republicans and democrats together to solve the biggest problems. this is about a lot of things but it's really about one thing. it's time for a big change and that is what i look forward to talking to you about tonight. >> you support a higher minimum wage in fact you drafted legislation to increase the

federal minimum wage to $12 an hour. many small business owners say that it would cut employment, reduce access to the entry-level positions that lead to better jobs and increasing unemployment rates among teens. how can you reassure small business they cannot only survive if this measure passes and he's tough economic times but thrive? >> murray: thank you for asking about that because i hear from so many people in the state our economy has come back but they still don't feel like they are part of it. they are worried that they don't earn enough money to put food on the table and certainly not to be able to feel like they are strong again. the minimum wage is a really important policy that assures you are going to work everyday not to live in poverty. i talked to a woman a while back

who had three younger kids and she said i want so badly to go to college so i can get a better job but i can't afford to do it i can barely afford to feed my kids. we are better than that in this country and establishing a minimum wage, i've written legislation to establish the wage at $12 by 2020 so that we can assure people you can have that hope and promise to get ahead in the country. for small businesses, my dad had a small business and i know how important it is they can be competitive with everybody up and down their streets. if we have one everyone agrees that means everyone can pay their employees a wage and be competitive it's extremely important that we recognize people in this country will be strong when they feel strong.

>> the university of washington study found they could have a negative effect on the regions where the local economy is not as strong as seattle. what is your position and how do you think the small businesses will fare in the taxes? >> really what matters is the federal minimum wage and that is what we would have control over. every tuesday night my wife and i volunteer at a homeless shelter and i see the pain that's been inflicted by this economy. people are hurting out there. there's not enough middle-class tribes and that is what is causing some of the pain and homelessness we see so i understand the desire to wave a magic wand and fix everything. by the way, the federal minimum wage is too low. it hasn't been raised in a long time. raising the minimum wage all across america according to the

research of the budget office will support the league could destroy 700,000 jobs. when you make it more expensive to hire people, raising the minimum wage too far too fast will hurt the people that we are trying to help. instead we need to bring down the debt, have a better program for infrastructure. i want to grow the economy and i think senator kerry wants to grow the government. let's go down to christie who is with the first audience question. >> you have a question for mr. vance. >> if scott forbes magazine reports 63% of americans don't have enough savings to cover a fee. what specifically would you do to help people that are feeling pinched? >> that's a great question.

other than physical threats to national security, the fact our economy isn't growing fast enough to create a good middle-class jobs is the problem of this generation. we have had ten consecutive years of growth that's never happened in history and the result is people are living paycheck to paycheck and people are turning to opioids and losing hope. there is one answer to this, we've got to grow the economy and enact policies to create economic growth. we need to break down the debt, reform the tax code, deal with regulation. we need to promote international trade. we need a better program for infrastructure in this country to put people to work. but none of these things will happen unless republicans and democrats can work together in congress and right now in terms of everything i mentioned that they are not. the gridlock is prevented us from everything we know we need to do to grow the economy and

help the people that need help. >> you said you would like to help the economy grow from the middle out, not the top down. how will you view this in your next term? >> murray: if i go around and talk to people, the insecurities they still feel as we recover from the recession is they still don't feel that it's been there for them. there are some people doing really well but there is a lot f people who can't earn enough or don't have the right kind of skills for today's economy and need the investments we can help grow this economy and it starts bto startby making the middle-cs strong again. making sure people have paid sick leave so you don't lose your pay if you are sick and have a steady income. making sure that we invest in education and retraining for the workers so they have the skills they need today. our transportation system to make sure that it's effective.

those kind of investments that help our middle-class growth is how we will make sure the country is strong for everyone. i believe we can eliminate the tax loopholes that benefit the wealthiest americans and biggest corporations and use those resources to invest in our middle class. that's how we grow in a way that everyone benefits. >> we now go to sean. >> thank you mark. good evening. my question is for both of you. i want to focus on the top employer here at the air force base. the pentagon says they are wasting money on access facilities and needs congress to step in and close this. but 22% excess capacity across the departmen department the ser pentagon official is urging lawmakers to consider a new round of the politically unpopular base realignment and closure process. what will you do to make sure

those critical jobs in the region are protected? >> fairchild air force base is essential to the military infrastructure in this country. it's critical to the shift to asia. we have to have an air force base that can make sure that we are protected here as americans. it is a critical base in our work to make sure we can project our air force around the globe. i've been proud to fight for the investments to make sure it is strong and ready not just for today but for tomorrow. i will fight with this community that i will say is amazingly great. you support your base and make sure they are there and that kind of bringing together the community, business leaders, education leaders of the

civilians who work there and their families. that's how he survived in the past with the infrastructure we've continued i know the mission is strong and sustainable for the future and i've lived through this again before you will know i will stand every step of the way. >> what would you do to protect the air force base? >> vance: when you are a senator from a large western states, you have to have a lot of responsibilities like this. i could imagine if you were a senator from new hampshire or delaware there's not a lot going on but one of the things we have to have too great for the needs whether it is the cleanup or the military bases nobody should fight to defend bases that don't make any sense, we are $20 trillion in debt. we can't waste money on those that make no sense. but everyone i've talked to says

that its mission is still vital and our position here is critical so i will fight hard to defend the air force base and one of the things we have to do is have the courage to stand up and talk to the governor's that the activities that are going on or maybe one of things putting it in danger and we need the courage to say no to that. we might have to say no to some of the stuff that's being built and putting the mission in danger. >> the next question is for you as well. >> what do you believe they are and how would you address them to ask

>> vance: i was the chairman and to think some other close elections. i live in king county but having been the republican chairman i've been all over the state sometimes i spend more tim spenn eastern washington and western. people in eastern washington have the same concerns. they want to make sure the economy is strong but there are unique challenges. i am proud to be endorsed by the washington farm bureau because i will stand up and fight for the farmers and ranchers. neither have chosen to serve on the senate agricultural committee. i will because it is a huge compliment to washington state. the second thing the federal government made a mess and they need to clean it up. everyone agrees with that. i will fight against politicians in nevada that prevented the

mountain from opening. that should be the pressure and i will fight for eastern washington but i think that they would do well with republicans in the united states senate. >> thank you for that question. my grandfather actually came here in 1916 where my dad was raised and i know this area very well. my dad and his family grew up here and in fact they were there when the reservation was established. my father was a world war ii veteran so they gave a lot. i'm a wsu graduate very proud, and i'm excited about the educational investments that have occurred to help make sure this economy is moving right.

it's the campus but is now makig sure we have doctors to work in the communities making sure we do the agricultural investments that help the economy grow. i'm excited about the wine industry that's now become an essential part of washington state. but we have a lot of agriculture and part of my responsibility i'm proud of his makin is makine have resource dollars. i'm proud of the investments that we are making here in this region. so i represent all four corners and i'm proud of my heritage.

>> in the 2010 reelection you claim you're not only read the affordable care act but you also helped write it. it is more expensive and losing money in many states across the country. what role did you tak take in drafting thinterestin the positt responsibility do you feel towards those that are now paying higher premiums for less coverage? >> murray: first let me say that i am excited tomorrow the teaching health center is going to open up and that is the facility that will now trained medical professionals right here to help deal with the shortage that we have. that was part of the goal is to make sure that we have enough physicians benefit helps lower the cost for everyone. i distinctly remember coming

here and holding a roundtable and hearing from people that were denied health care coverage. they couldn't buy insurance. i had one woman come in and she said i thought i had good insurance until i got cancer and all of a sudden i had to fight with my company everyday to pay for my medical coverage and she said this stack of papers is my correspondence just trying to get them to cover what i thought i had. women were denied. young people couldn't get access. so they sold a number of problems and we have more people covered today. i am so frustrated that all republicans have said to repeal it. i'm going to work with any party to safeguard the challenges today and how can we fix it. one of the biggest challenges is

the insurance companies dropped coverage. that's why i support a public option so we can lower the rates and have the opportunity for everyone to get the health care coverage that they deserve. >> you said the problem is that it creates a one size fits all approach but for other americans it isn't working. would you work to repeal it and do you think that the party would be able to agree on a viable alternative without jeopardizing basic coverage for the millions of americans who are now covered under the affordable care act? >> my party hasn't been responsible to step up and offer an alternative to obamacare but like so many others, my family lived through the crisis three years ago my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer.

they caught it very early but the point is we have good insurance and she got incredibly high quality quick coverage and service and they caught her cancer before it was able to spread and everything turned out okay. i can't imagine living in this society without health-care coverage or trying to raise kids without insurance. we had a problem. a lot of americans have good insurance and others were covered by the government that is a big segment in the society who didn't have health-care coverage. congress needs to do something but instead of working together they passed a plan that is entirely partisan. only democrats supported it and it was doomed to fail. obamacare is falling apart. the next congress has to do something to fix or dramatically change obamacare. this difference is they support the public option and that is to allow people to become dependent on government coverage and that means more control by the government and more cost cuts

authority 20 chilean dollars in debt. i think we can do better and for those that need help, we have a targeted solution for those that need help monitor o on a plan tt would allow people to purchase private-sector coverage with a small subsidy from the government. that is something that worked very well for many years and it would be a way to get coverage to those who need it without destroying everyone else's coverage. people had their coverage or they get to keep what they had or don't have any more. >> moderator: we now go to a special guest panelist from the student body association. this question comes online for the both of you. have the college students at a public colleges are completing their degrees within six years of enrollment. how can we completed students are not taking on a necessary

death and are able to get their degree black >> that is a good question. i live this every day. i have two of them sitting over here to the left. i make a payment every month on my son's loan and he does it. i will be doing the same for my daughter. i understand the debt problem. a lot of this including what you're talking about on the higher education policy needs to be driven at the state level, not the federal level. and i'm reluctant to start stepping in to tell colleges and universities how to run their institutions and to do their business. we do have a problem. one solution is to allow students to refinance. you can refinance you ought to be able to refinance your student loans availed lower rate but the problem really has been driven by state legislatures cutting back on funding for higher education. thankfully here they've gone the other direction and more in higher education so my

daughter's tuition check was low for now. the answer to this is not in washington, d.c.. but i am concerned there is a lot of publications including senator murray and bernie sanders promising things like free college or debt-free college where $20 trillion in debt we cannot afford more federal spending if we are going to raise taxes as the proposed to maybe bring down college costs does need to be used to bring down the debt first. the reason it continues to mount is because more politicians make more and more promises and then just borrow money and print money. they can't continue. >> senator murray, your response. >> murray: i'm standing in front of you as a united states senator because when i was young my father was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and lost his job.

fortunately my country was there for me and with pell grants and student programs i was able to graduate from wsfu as for my six brothers and sisters. i believe we have a responsibility in this country to make sure students are able to go to college and don't have to work three, four, five jobs while they are in college and graduate late as you talked about. i talk to too many young people today in middle school but decided they are not going to go to college because of the expense. i talked to too many in college working three or four jobs and i talk to way too many people who are trying to pay back student loans. i think we should expand the program so that more people qualified. i think that we should be able to refinance student loans. right now you cannot. i was proud to support that legislation with senator

elizabeth warren and i was so sad they tried to filibuster it will be lost by a few votes. i'm going to keep trying until we get that done. we are having a good conversation and the country about how we can allow students to go to community college is tuition free. i think that's an important conversation to have. there are some tax loopholes that we can close to help reinvest in people so they can get their college degree. we need them to get their degree for the jobs of today. ..

they don't pay him enough. we need to look at our workforce policies today and how they impact social security and expanded and i believe we can raise the and do that in fact energy legislation and i'm working on to do that. but i do not believe we should raise the age for retirement for social security and i do not believe that we should reduce payment for senior citizens on social security with the so-called chained cpi.

we need to expand social security, strengthen the ad maker work for tomorrow and i'm willing to work with anyone who will work with us to get that done. >> moderator: thank you senator. mr. fans the republican party is calling for comprehensive reform to perpetuate social security. do your positions on social security differ from the party platform and if so, how? vince one of the things i said that throughout the campaign if you listen carefully you might find my message is different. this is a critical issue. this issue defines the issue between senator murray and die. they are never going to bring our debt down and stabilize social security medicare for publicans are locked in a position of just making cuts and the democrats are locked into position as you just heard from senator murray of just raising taxes. i'm a strong believer in the approach developed by president obama's bipartisan commission in 2010 that included republicans

and democrats business and labor the simpson-bowles commission which recommended we need to do all these things. yes we need to raise the income tax on social security so the wealthiest americans contribute more but that will not be enough. it's not physically possible or politically possible. if you do things the simpson-bowles commission recommended that included responsible democrats like the clinton's chief of staff and budget director to slightly graduate and raise the retirement age to change the benefit schedule to nondiscretionary spending. we don't do these things social security will be robed in less than 15 years and the politicians in washington d.c. including senator murray have done nothing about it and they will do nothing about as long as republicans stay as republicans do a lot to do their talking points and democrats stay locked in to their talking points. we'll take positions that a lot of members of my party won't

take to seek a grand bargain where both sides give a little bit because if we don't we will face a situation in a very few years where we will dramatically cut benefits for current retirees are massively increasing taxes or keep our wing money and printing money and borrowing from china. i favor a grand bargain that includes all the solutions. >> moderator: thank you mr. mr. vance. >> mr. vance they debt has grown to staggering $20 trillion. that's almost $61,000 for each american, all of us. it's such a serious problem if former chair of the joint chiefs of staff admiral michael mullen said the national debt is the single biggest threat to our national security. what is your plan to reduce the deficit in the deficit and how do you convince your critics that lower taxes for individual and companies which you support is the right direction? vance: i'm so glad you asked that question.

if it's any one factor that led me to. for this office is our debt has gone up-and-up and republicans and democrats in congress at the nothing nothing about an effective work together to raise the debt. last year republicans and democrats together passed the budget agreement they raised their step by trillion dollars and all they been willing to do is pass cynical budget such as the budget the senator murray is so proud of the she passed with paul ryan that did not solve any problems and kept the government opened that continue to kick the can forward. i've been specific about this. i support a simpson-bowles approach. we all know that's what needs to happen. every grown-up understands that what needs to happen for this generation of politicians don't have the guts to do it because they are so afraid of making their base angry. republicans are for it or talk radio base and liberals are afraid of their liberal base but

as long as they keep reelecting the same people thought this year after year nothing will get done and briefly on taxes i support conference attacks reform which will close loopholes and lower rates for everyone. this will give the middle class a tax cut that force the rich and corporations to pay more of their fair share. unlike senator murray at believe that money needs to bring down the debt not for new spending. folks this is a problem we have to get serious about dealing with and electing and reelecting the same people who helped make this mess is not going to help you get done. >> moderator: senator murray when he ran for office 1990s at the national debt was one of your top priorities yet in the 24 years you've been in the senate it is increased by more than $15 trillion so what is your plan to reduce the deficit, increased taxes, spending warm a combination of both? murray: that's an important question i think we need to step back and remember what happened. p92 began to deal with our debt

and impact by the end of president bill clinton's term in office we start having surpluses but then in 2000 under president bush he proposed and congress passed not one but two major tax increases that benefited mostly the wealthy and major corporations and did not pay for it. and this country under president bush voted to go to war in iraq. i opposed that war and voted no but that was done without paying for it come including all the costs of taking care of the men and women who serve when they came home and here we are today with a debt. i suppose -- propose all three of those and chris was republican party chair at the time and supportive. he can't pass policies and not pay for them and expect the world to work the way he wanted to and then of course we have the economic collapse in 2008

and we are still working our way out of it. the answer to your question is important. the first thing we do is do no harm to our economy and put us back in a place where people lose their jobs and their pension and can afford it so we need to strengthen our middle class, invest in them. yes we need to do a fair and balanced approach of cutting programs and having every american contribute not just those who are working or seniors who are retired. i'm happy to work with anyone as we continue to address a serious problem. >> moderator: thank you senator. now back to chris -- a question from an audience member. >> what is the appropriate number of syrian refugees we should be letting into the country collectively have vetting standards and practices for assuring national security and the not how should they be changed?

murray: thank you very much for asking that question. it's a really important one. as we now siriano is in a very war-torn time right now and people are fleeing. women and children are fleeing in trying to get away from the terrorists are attacking them in the middle of a civil war. we are country was never turned their backs on people who are asking for help. syrian refugees in those camps are suffering her rent asleep and i believe is a country we need to stand up with her global partners and do our part. it's important to know that those syrian refugees go through an intense amount of security before they come here to the united states. two plus years going through a lot of background and work to make sure that we are bringing them here.

i think we can accept people and help them come here and assimilate and contribute back. i know they will be very proud citizens when they get here. >> moderator: mr. vance your response? vance: this is a gut-wrenching issue. we need to help those in need and i supported what the president was doing in terms of bringing syrian refugees the united states until the attack in paris and we found at least one of the attackers had posed as a refugee to get into france and commit that attack and the director of the fbi testified before congress that the fbi homeland security cannot adequately that these refugees. everyone talks about this tremendous job we do for vetting these refugees who may go through years and months of vetting that are on director of the fbi says we cannot adequately vet these refugees. my vision is simple. i want to admit refugees. once the fbi will let us know

that they can get them to keep us safe. let's talk about syria for a moment. that whole mess over there is an example of what happened when the united states abdicated its responsibility. americans do like the idea of being the world's policeman but we have allowed syria to fall apart and its destabilizing the middle east and causing a refugee crisis causing instability throughout europe and we have got to work with our coalition partners to settle the syrian civil war and stop the refugee crisis at its source. >> moderator: thank you mr. mr. vance. now back to sean. >> mr. vance 2014 democrats and republicans stripped -- to overturn military conditions. this was done to address the greatest record of discrimination and sexual abuse sexual -- suffered in the military. has it been up to the dress

discriminatory treatment of women and soldiers? vance: apparently not. everything we are hearing is that continues and it's absolutely unacceptable for americans. i don't like the idea politicians telling the military how to run the military. i recoil at that. think it's dangerous but we talk about violating people's civil rights and you talk about sexual assault and sexual harassment of women that's when congress does need to step in so i think the next congress needs to look at this very carefully. women are serving probably an value play in our military. our military is more and more diverse and again it makes me uncomfortable for politicians to try and come in and tell the military how to do things but in this case these are our wives and daughters and sisters and we have to make sure they are protected and treated the way they should be treated.

>> moderator: senator murray a different question to you submitted by heather. women veterans often need to be outsourced to other clinics because the va cannot address women's care like mammograms in house preaches that we often can't have providers of the same sex. we also treatment founded on data from male veterans and women's care of its outdated. what do you plan to propose to address these issues? murray: thank you for asking that question because i've talked to so many women who have served us incredibly honorably in complex around the globe and we have a responsibility when anyone serves our country to be there with more than words but to make sure they have the services they need. the fastest growing population in our va today is women and i was proud to work to make sure that we now require all va facilities to have a women's clinic to make sure that they have an entrance is safe and secure for them and that they

get the services they need. too often women veterans don't identify themselves as a veteran so i'm working hard to make sure they get the services they need. this goes back to a question you asked my opponents and that is the issue of sexual harassment at our military. too many women do not come forward and tell of their experience because they have to report to their commander. that's pretty hard to do when you are in the military so yes we need to reform the system. i believe we need to look out by the military for issues of sexual harassment and we need to recognize that many women veterans who have served before and are serving today suffer from military trauma and we need to make sure our va is prepared to receive them in our military commanders from the top down continue to elect within their

ranks. it's not acceptable. mopped up the next question is for you as well. junior joined a filibuster in the senate to demand action on gun safety legislation and you cited frustration in doing something anything to scott -- stop the scourge of gun violence. will you vote for or against the gun control measure and second there still is a divided congress after the selection of the member of the leadership what would you do to create a different outcome on this issue? >> i will vote for the initiative on the ballot. you know it's so abhorrent to me that moms worry that they are going to get a text message from their school but there has been a lot better you can't can go to a nightclub without worrying work to the ball. this country has to step up and deal with this issue of domestic violence -- or of gun violence. it's so sad to me that so many cities today are not identified

by a historic place but are identified by gun violence burlington, marysville. we have them across first date orlando, san bernardino. if we cannot stand up and deal with the issue of gun violence we have not done their job as leaders in this country so yes i was proud to stand with senate doma crafts until we got republicans to elect this to vote on a bill that at the very least as if you're on a terrorist watch list that you cannot buy a gun. we were blocked by republicans. they offered a bill that was actually written by the gun lobby which did nothing. i was proud to say no one that i voted for strong legislation. we have not gotten a pass. we have to keep working. we need background checks without loopholes to make sure that criminals and possible terrorists and domestic abusers can purchase a gun and need to

stand up and say we can balance the 2nd amendment to the constitution with the right for americans to feel safe. >> moderator: mr. vance's did he believe a ban on somatic somatic weapons within constitutional. in the wake of the recent murder of five people in burlington with a semi-automatic rifle following many similar cases this year what limits if any should be placed on the purchase and use of semi-automatic weapon's? vance: this is a great question we are all horrified by gun violence when it occurs in me to do more to keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have them but i can't support banning weapons that are currently legal if they are used lawfully by law-abiding citizens across our state and country for self-protection, for hunting, for target shooting and sport. automatic weapons machine guns are illegal and have been for some time but i can't support banning the types of rifles that so many people in washington state on.

what we do need to do is improve our background check system. right now they're born to buy a gun from a licensed gun dealer and most people do when they purchase a gun you they were supposed to go through background checks to many states don't provide records to be a vip congress could pass up tomorrow by passing legislation requiring states to provide that record but on this issue like so many others we saw a lot of grandstanding in washington d.c. with republicans and democrats couldn't come together. they were competing proposals about how to deal with tons and neither side would compromise. they all congratulated themselves for how courageous they were and nothing got done. republicans and democrats and to work together to find a compromise on guns just like they do in on every other issue that's just not happening right now in reelecting the same people that can't get the job done now to me makes no sense. i will work with republicans democrats to strengthen her back and check legislation. that's was a station that can pass. a ban on rifles is not going to

pass. >> moderator: thank you mr. vance. >> mr. vance washington is one of the most trade dependencies united states. do you support the transpacific partnership trade deal and the trade agreement to lower barriers and trade with partner's? vance: i do and both parties are turning against trade pedicured everywhere i go. both republicans and democrats are posted tpb and trade agreements in general. i just think it's economic suicide in there so many misinformation about various. deals. being opposed to trade will destroy washington's economy. wherever i go whether it's anderson haiyan ellensburg washingtons employers and farmers and manufacturers are dependent on exporting their products and these agreements are good or washington state the tpp will eliminate not just

lower lm and 818,000 different taxes on american products. it will lower taxes on washington week by 30% in washington salmon by 30%. it will make our products more competitive create american jobs especially here in washington state. this is one of the reasons i can't support hillary clinton richie used to support trade. she used to support the tpp but now under pressure from her liberal base she's opposing it and senator mare nostrum might not vote for tpp. i just think this is crazy. trade deals are good for for washington state and they're good for the american economy. and to stop the misinformation and support agreements that will create american jobs. >> moderator: thank you mr. vance vance. senator murray having made up your mind whether you're going to support the tpp? murray: what we grow, what we make in what we manufacture has to be sold in markets across the world. we need fair rules as we try to

sell our products overseas elites make sure that they are strong, that there is enforcement and we do protect the values of washington state about our apartments in our labor laws and other issues that are critical to us. like a trade remained i evaluated on if it's good for workers and in our economy. can it be enforced and this is a strong agreement for all of us? at this point the republican leaders in the senate and house of said they're not going to send the tpp to us but if they do those are the values and priorities that i will assess it on to make sure we are making a good decision for washington state and by the way they are talking about changes so for any of us to say we are going to take a vote on it without having read it it's not what we should do our homework on. i come home and listen to my constituents and i will when the trade agreements sent a sure i evaluated and it works well for the state of washington.

one of the issues is extremely important to us are those enforcement provisions. it's not just the trade agreements and making sure the federal government has the mic to make sure we have enforcement officers so it does work as intended. that is how i will evaluate that >> moderator: the next question is for you as well. between 2014 and 2050 washington lost more than a million acres in catastrophic wildfires. most of that was u.s. forest service land experts say that land is not being managed properly or at adequate levels to prevent a wildfire from devastating communities. too often it's a use money set aside for prevention to fight the wildfires otherwise known as fire or borrowing privilege on congress to on preventative measures? >> that is really an important question for us they because we have been devastated by wildfire people have lost their homes and a lot of are land has been devastated by this and we need

to make sure we are protecting people and have the resources should these wildfires hit us and that has become more and more difficult as the federal government has cut budgets back. one of the reasons it's so important that i worked with paul ray and to get a budget deal together and move that forward so there was some certainty. you asked about the shafir borrowing. we cannot continue to do that i'm working with a number of other senators to fix that so we have the funds available when these fires occur. i've also worked with a number of communities impacted today are usually rural communities and our laws covering the assistance of many of the homeowners get just doesn't work in a rural communities so i have just introduced legislation and i'm working to change the dynamic so people who live in rural communities can get the support they need. >> moderator: the same question to mr. vance. vance: the answer is simply to put more money to prevention.

everyone i've talked to says it needs to be done but these communities have been making this case for a very long time. why is it taking catastrophic fires to get senator murray and senator cantwell to take action on this? we need to have senators in washington d.c. who will focus on the entire state including the needs of rural areas and they rural landowners that i've talked to for years have been making the case loud and clear we need to have the funds available for prevention. we need to manage these lands to reduce the amount of fuels on the ground that will fuel these wildfires and they did not feel like their representatives are listening to them. took a few terrible fires to get this change. again i look forward to working closely with congressman reichert congressman newhouse and congressman kathy mcmorris to look at the needs of washington all the time not just after crisis.

>> moderator: is time for closing statements and senator murray will start with you. murray: this has been a great discussion and i'll again want to thank our moderators and everyone here in chris for joining us. you heard some things we at creon that congress doesn't always work as well as we wanted to. you heard some the things we disagree on. i believe that we can grow our economy by investing in our middle class in helping our country to be strong again. people often ask me why do you do this? is so angry out there is such a divisive time. as i was coming over here yesterday i went to u. seatac airport in there was an honor flight about to take off with about 50 veterans world war ii and korean veteran semi-walks through them to thank them for their service. a 100-year-old veteran who served in world war ii, i said thank you for your service and he looked at me and he said no, thank you for your service. keep fighting. that's why i do what i do, for people like that veteran or the

veteran here in spokane by the name of sean house dead end airman severely injured, so severely he couldn't have children. the va denied his ability to get access to fertility treatment. i want to work with sean and other veterans like him who lost their ability to fill their dream of having a family. we fight for years and i'm proud to say two weeks ago we passed legislation signed into law so sean and other veterans and have that family dream. that's why i do what i do so i can fight for issues big and small for people here from veterans on and make sure that i work respectfully and i hope we can all raise his level of respect. that's what our servicemembers and veterans expect and that's certainly what we can do as a country. >> moderator: thank you senator. mr. vance. vance: thank you to the debate

coalition. i'm ari looking forward to her next debate sunday night at the microsoft campus. we are all lucky to live in the united states of america the greatest nation in the history of the world. there is nothing a free people can accomplish in their government in the tools and opportunities to succeed and get the heck out of the way. for too long now our leaders have been letting us down and it's the fault of both parties of congress. our national security is threatened and our economy stagnant social security medicare going broke. we will be $20 trillion in debt this year tonight patty murray in the washington d.c. establishment have no idea how to fix this other than to blame the other party for what's going on. we can fix this but we can't continue to accept politics as usual and excuses. this election must bring change and reelecting the same people year after year a decade after decade will not change anything. if you want change you have to

vote for change. i will be a different kind of senator. i will work every day to change the culture to bring republicans and democrats together to solve the biggest problems. i will be an independent voice and never anyone's rubber stamp and i'd be honored to have your vote. thank you and good evening. >> moderator: please join me in thanking our candidates tonight. [applause] also allowed to say thank you to our debate host from washington state university spokane eastern washington university community college in spokane and wentworth on behalf of all of us here including the washington state, thank you for joining us and have a good night. [applause]

when you grow up an environment like i did you need a lot of people to play heroic role role in your life for you to have the chance and luckily i had that. i had my aunt and my sister and this is really the story of how they impacted my life in a lot of ways.

>> there wasn't this clear connection that now this is the line between education opportunities because even the people that did well with school didn't necessarily make a whole lot out of themselves. you saw so many people not really making her having good opportunities. it was hard to believe that school really mattered that much. the signature feature of booktv on c-span2 is her coverage of the festivals from around the country.

u.s. senate candidates in vermont including incumbent patrick leahy to part in a debate that included questions from viewers. topics include the presidential race, national security and the economy. courtesy of cable channel 17 town meeting television, this is an hour and 15 minutes. mods are good evening and welcome to channel 17 here in burlington, vermont. i'm mark johnson today work at

an on line news publication here in vermont. welcome to the debate with the candidates in vermont for the united state senate. this will be of course as usual a six-year term as will be applied for by five candidates. this is the first debate of the season that the candidates are together and as i mentioned we will have five candidates joining us tonight. we'll also be taking phonecalls from you and across the nation. will give you the phone number off the top eight zero two area code in vermont, 862-3966. let me introduce the candidates that will be joining us on our program tonight and we will go from my left outward to my direct left is senator patrick leahy. he is the incumbent in the race.

he is a democrat. scott milne is to his left. scott is the republican candidate. next to him is jerry trudell who is running as an independent and cris ericson is also joining us and she is with the united marijuana party. peter diamondstone who is with the liberty union party is also expected to be joining us during the program. our format for tonight will have candidates answering questions. we will limit them to two minutes. we have asked them to honor each other's side so that each of them can get the maximum amount. let's begin. let me start with the five of you that like to ask you limit the single biggest issue in the 2016 u.s. senate race. senator leahy let's track is run with you. >> of course i want to thank you and channel 17 for having me.

i think for the senate the biggest thing is to -- it often has been a constant of the nation. i think it can be done. especially in the national races. we have to have somewhere where republicans and democrats can work together as we have in the past and be the conscience of a nation. >> moderator: mr. milne. >> i agree with my opponent. i think the biggest single issue is that dysfunctional united states senate. the problem i believe is caused by career politicians being propped up election after election with special-interest money. my opponent has been in office for 42 years. the problem is taken root in the last 42 years.

i'm offering vermonters a voice you think it's a big problem and wanted alternative and i'm looking forward to the next three weeks which is election day, three weeks from today. >> moderator: mr. trudell. >> the number one issues the economy economy because one in three vermonters are struggling to survive. tied for first place is early endorsement of hillary clinton. do you know what i have here? i have an sp card. as recordings i took myself to prove the voracity of my claim that there are so many vermonters that are upset in varying degrees. you have lost their vote, senator. i say the issue boils down to classic political cronyism. he had a fund-raiser year ago. your former chief of staff who is now the campaign manager for senator clinton. you guys are such close

bedfellows it isn't funny. you have this all wind up years in advance and of course bernie upsets your apple cart a little, didn't he? would he say to those vermonters who in my opinion betrayed their trust. aside from the economy itself is a perennial issue. >> moderator: ms. ericson. >> i represent the united states marijuana party. the biggest issue in the united states of america as we are suffering from a lack of democracy and the whole election system is un-american and to give you an example because i asked party -- barber at the woodstock school and allowing her eighth-graders to watch this program and eighth-graders are concerned about things like rolling. senator leahy has been a bully. he has been a bully in the political playground away

children are bullies in the schoolyard playground. iran as the democratic candidate is united states and this past summer and senator leahy refused to have even one debate or one form with me. he is a holy come he is a political playground bully. he is totalitarian, and democratic and un-american and he should be ashamed of himself. >> it's kind of hard to respond as a person who wrote i don't think there's any group of women in this country that is called a sexist. when you referred to senator

sanders, i admire senator sanders. i've served with him and he and his wife are close friends with mine and myself. i'm pleased bernie has gone to montpellier to hold a rally to endorse me and to endorse the rest of the democratic ticket. he and i are both supporting hillary clinton and at the national convention. he and i both voted for her. i hire him. i admire the issues he raised and had he been the nominee i would have been supporting him. >> i would like a quick rebuttal. i need a quick rebuttal. if you pass the violence against women act i filed in court without act and i had been assaulted in battered by an actor named patrick swayze on a movie set. i found out-years years later the that you took campaign donations from my opposing attorney or that you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

>> moderator: i want to pick up on an issue about the integrity of the electoral platform. mr. milne concerns about whether the election is in jeopardy? >> i think if we look at history from windsor county although i grew up in orange county i was fortunate enough to sir vermonters. i will be the first senator from windsor county since ralph flanders. i think we are seeing a dialogue on a national level that we haven't seen since the mccarthy era. ralph flanders stood up as united states senator. i have concerns on a national level a lot of the rhetoric both from my opponent has candidate who were calling the other people supporters of that deplorables and vice versa from both sides. like to have an issue campaign which i would congratulate my opponent and i clearly called out to your record that i

disagree totally with. i'm a borderline hypocritical. i think that's what campaign should be about, people's records and whether what they said or were going to do matches what they have been doing up until now. i'm comfortable that what i'm saying i'm going to do is completely consistent with the campaign we are designed to defeat an incumbent senator for the first time in 100 years and vermont, to defeat a senior member than as a center for the first time united states history. it gives us a lot of momentum to change america. >> moderator: are you confident in the integrity of the system? >> yes. >> moderator: mr. trudell. senequa in their paper ballots imc can recount if you have to. put it this way it is a fact that there is a low incidence of voter fraud. other people are chomping that issue up, excuse me, for the

sake of their on the agenda. if you don't have a paper ballot which is the company that manufactures a lot of these election machines which is run by republicans he claimed he was going to deliver all high of. electronic voting without a paper trail potentially suspect. >> in the last election in 2014 when iran against congressman peter welch first of all right here on this stage he lied and said he was not taking campaign donations from defense contractors where in fact a couple of days before that he was in a photograph of patrick leahy in the burlington free press with both of them waving their checks for thousands and thousands of dollars for lockheed-martin. peter welch -- lied on the stage remember to when the vote came in my votes were cut in half the

next day and so were two other candidates. the secretary of state said there was just some kind of accident and they accidentally doubled mine and that's why they had to cut them in half the next day. there's a lot of nonsense going on. furthermore there's a real problem, brooke hayes and the other democratic candidates who was excluded from a lot of debate forms told me the people running the state democratic committee, not the democrats, the dimmer credit people in vermont are wonderful but the leaders of the state democratic party he said came from out of state. they were in the they were out of state after some one of them was from ireland. when you think that one of them is from ireland and could be a member of the irish republican army and the new look at of things going on in north carolina you have to be concerned. the leaders of the democratic party in vermont should be vermonters. >> moderator: thank you very much.

>> i trust the elections in vermont. i remember when there was a recount i was asked about that as a democrat. i pointed out our machinery in the town and city clerks 70 or 80% republican. he is not concerned that somebody will vote twice. get out and vote. we have to have a higher turnout in this country. >> moderator: peter diamondstone good evening. how are you my friend? we will catch you in the next round of questions here. mr. trudell will start the next round with you. who is going to vote for president talk to me about the

presidential debate. >> i do want to did press myself even more. the most depressing spectacle i have ever seen a contest of insults, that's all we have here. it is generated to such such a low level that i'm in paris and so are a lot of other people. >> moderator: who are you voting for? >> i'm not sure. i'm really not sure. >> with that secret ballot and it should stay that way. >> moderator: would he think about the presidential debate? >> i'm shocked and horrified and disgusted and it turns my stomach. i'm totally completely shocked. the main thing is people over and over again have been voting for the candidate who has the biggest campaign funds, have the most money and that's to impress

them. you got to go back to the holy bible that says you shouldn't worship man and he should worship money because when you are worshiping money you are ending up with the worst candidates, not the best candidates. >> moderator: who are you going to vote for for president? >> it's really interesting how the so-called alternative candidates within the capitalist system think this should -- they should be allowed into the debate but they have made no effort to get the socialism into the debate. the guy from the socialist party as a guide named manny.

i'm really exhausted. the eastern freedom candidate is gloria ariba. you want to understand that this is a panel of capitalists and only one of me and i'm. wiped out. so it's not really fair. i bring messages from the liberty union. for example we voted to declare declare -- a war criminal for his work in bombing saudi arabia

and to bomb yemen and his appropriation votes to give the zionist state in palestine. to give them money to commit war crimes in gaza. as you go those who aid and abet are those who perpetrate. >> i'm disturbed by the toad of the country. i'm supporting hillary clinton i have made that very public areas dirty sanders are voting for him and both of us have campaigned for him. i am disturbed that the republican candidate donald

trump has said that he will pick and choose what is the part of the constitution to uphold and is willing to violate freedom of religion in the link to violate freedom of speech and has also said he will not commit to fulfill all of our nato obligations. he will pick and choose which treaties are the law of the land , which ones he will follow. you can imagine the rest of the world. before you go on television -- he will condemn the mother of somebody who died in service protecting fellow servicemen.

he was captured and he said he would never be captured that of course he would never be captured. he applied for five permits for the draft so he wouldn't have to serve. >> moderator: mr. milne. >> the election is three weeks from today and i'm asking vermonters and that we have a national audience but i'm asking vermonters to take a look at the differences between senator myself and other candidates. it's my opponent's position is a vermonters to disenfranchise the voice we are supporting his opponent are other senator from vermont. i'm a republican. i was supportive of howard dean when he was a vermonter early on. i'm not asking people to decide tonight who they are voting or for u.s. senator.

i have not decided who i'm voting for for president. i will say i came out for many months that i'm not supporting anybody. they come out recently and said i would not be voting for donald trump and i find it very troublesome but candidates my opponent is supporting refers to the supporters of the other candidate donald trump is a basket of deplorables. at that direct conversations with over 1000 vermonters of the last several months who are supporting donald trump. i would not say one of them is deplorable so everyone has fingerprints on this mess. would argue patrick leahy is more relevant to the mess we are in it myself or anyone on the second table. >> moderator: will go to the fun here. good evening are joining us on u.s. senate candidates debate. >> hello? >> going ahead. >> yes, the question for scott milne the republicans candidate. >> moderator: go ahead. >> yes, i would tend like to

know if he's elected to the senate if he will follow the constitution and go ahead and vote for justice of the supreme corporate appellees senator leahy and the other senators in the senate are in violation of the oath of office and dereliction of duty. >> moderator: buckminster with you mr. milne. >> there should be about america garlanded my groove back to the contrast is relevant as we look towards the future and our nation and our planet are in perilous times. i think you can tie a lot of the problems to the disintegration of getting things done in the states send over the last 42 years. the advising consent role of complementary to choosing supreme court justices.

if hillary clinton or anybody is present i'm going to give them great difference. everybody should have a hearing based on what i know about merrick garland. we would clearly be voting for tearing along with susan collins of maine and i would most like vote for him to be confirmed. >> sometimes mr. milne is so used to attacking me that the attacks are more pork than the facts but let me set the facts. whoever is the majority and the majority leader and a determined when the votes are going to be he is seeking to have more of a republican selected. i was about two hours justice scalia's body was discovered.

he is the one person that said that. the republicans went along with it. i disagreed. the constitution says we must have it. not complementary. it says we shall advising consent. i believe strongly that contrary to what mr. milne says. i voted for well over 90% of republican nominees for the judiciary and everything else. so i believe very strongly in a president's ability to nominate someone who is qualified. >> moderator: i will take another call. good evening, you are on the air. >> thank you very much sir. i would like to use bank senator leahy for his service.

i'm in north carolina but i'm a fan of his and it's not his fault that the judicial system didn't give the gentleman an invitation to see if he's qualified for the supreme court. the republican party is blocking every issue that he's trying to accomplish. i thank you for the call and i thank you for your beautiful state of vermont. >> moderator: would you think about the selection of the supreme court nominee? >> i'm a little slow down but i can keep up. i want to impress on folks the importance of this vote. some people call it one or the

other but it isn't. you can vote for his confirmation by voting for me and you can vote for no more war by voting for me. you can vote for me and get a reference to the criminal court, the international criminal court for mr. leahy to defend himself or the bombing of yemen and the bombing of gaza. and a zero war budget, no war budget. >> moderator: let me get the other two. if you would like to comment on the supreme court court's election. would you support merrick garland? >> if i'm voted into united states senate i will question the nominee to find out whether or not they will give 100% support for gun rights and

repeal laws that take away gun rights from veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder which senator leahy has been in favor of. one of the most important things is setting supreme court nominees is to make certain we are going to have our gun rights. we have got the potential of hillary clinton being president and letting all kinds of terrorists in the country. we have to have our gun rights and veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder have to get their gun rights restored. >> i was just about to get to the gun issue. >> moderator: let's give other people a opportunity. >> i would vote for any qualified nominee of any party. >> christy mentioned people coming from the outside. there have been syrian refugees. the state department have agreed to put refugees here in vermont.

do you support that program? >> many of my ballot petition signatures to get on the ballots i could be here today everybody i've talked to in rutland said no. when you are in rutland and i know jerry trudell collected signatures in rutland because he was there some days i was. they're homeless people, american standing across the street from walmart. their people sitting on the street begging for money and the people a rutland want the people of rutland to be taken care of first. as far as our moral obligation to the people of syria we are arming armies. where is supplying armies with weapons and this results in serious being -- because our weapons are being used to bomb syria. we do have a moral obligation to take care of the refugees. but we don't have to take care of them here in the united states. look at the whole entire globe

and say where is the area that is not populated we can provide them with tents and fishing poles and farm animals and let them take care of themselves. >> moderator: would he think of the effort to put syrian refugees in vermont? >> i have no problem with taking as many as we can. i'm not seriously concerned about whether they will be so-called terrorists. these are people who are suffering at the hands of united states. let us not forget that the so-called civil war in syria is a product of the united states government international policy. it's not just something that happened out of the blue, and if

we take appropriate responsibility for what we have done we will take as many as we can and that means hundreds of thousands i believe. >> you know this whole question of immigration is a red herring. we can walk out of the studio. right now go two or three blocks around here and see the vibrant of burlington. those are mostly amuck rants. the stores, the housing, the shops are here. the kid kids to go to the boys and girls club two or three blocks from here. those are immigrant families that have come here to the united states. we are not being asked that the united states spring anywhere near the number of syrians. the difference is i don't know any of us here if we ever want

to go through this screening that these people have to go through to come here. it's a must intensive screening you can imagine. i think the united states in the same way that my ancestors and the 18 50's came from ireland because they are being persecuted for their religion or my grandparents, paternal grandparents came from italy and for all the various wars there to the united states. they all made the place better. are we going to say no to serious because they have a different religion than they do? i would hope we have not come to that point in the united states. ..

and essentially shut it down everybody's throat. i think it should have been respected and able to essentially solicit their refugee. refugee. senator leahy said my grandfather who was friends with senator leahy i remember hearing stories where my family emigrated to you could hear

conversations in five languages immigration is an enriching part of the planet and our lives. what's ruining democracy and america is the rigged political system propped up by special interest money and career politicians. you can see senator leahy has fingerprints all over the problems we are talking about. >> if the economy were what it should be people wouldn't be hollering and screaming in the responsibility here. we bomb and blow up and destroy peoplepeople's lives. we do have some responsibility when we create refugees but at the same time we have people at home that deserve jobs so i would like to focus this on the economy. people don't blame things like

this it's when they start playing the blame game's so the responsibility is for the politicians to stop playing the same politics and come up with the prosperitaprosperity that in i'm here tonight. it makes me sick that you are the king of the road when i haven't heard one idea from you. the real problem with what you say about that, senator? >> good evening, you are on the air.

>> caller: why doesn't he support trump? >> i ran two years ago -- i think it's going to be a good answer. i believe i made a few promises. one is i will think before i a act. >> the question is why aren't you supporting trump? >> the question isn't why did i announce i am not voting for trump.

i wanted to save this for a debate however i say if i could go through a time machine and play dodgeball in montpelier clearly he's great at it. it got too far. i had a campaign that wants to inspire young vermonters. i was inspired by dean davis when i was a little bit older and a lot of political leaders. without being presumptuous i want to at least be able to do that. things that were validated made it completely inconsistent for me to hold my tongue so that's why i've announced i'm not going to vote for donald trump and it's a succession of things.

there is a need for change in america and he offers a voice to a lot of those people that it's not one i can agree with. >> my question goes to all the candidates about the project and the vermont tax code in the top tier of most in the country. how can we address less tax codes to start up a company in vermont and rather than funding by selling 500,000-dollar investment why aren't we making it easier to start up businesses here in vermont? >> i don't think we need to

expand the economy. that is the attitude of the capitalist candidates. what we need to do is increase the wage by having a 20 hour workweek and 40 hour work day so that we produce less and people get paid more. we don't need most of the stuff we need to buy any to start producing for the need so we can get the people what they need including the assyrian refugees we can give them what they need and mostly that means work. they pay taxes and all the people that come to this country and work but we don't need more, we need less.

we need more time to work at home to do many things including training corps militia. my view of god is we should have whatever weapons the government has except for nuclear weapons, should be able to have those. i'm a candidate that stands for zero military budget except the veterans budget that would be transferred to social security. >> thank you. senator, you are next. economic development, and you can touch on eb five or we are going to get into it more.

there are billions of jobs into vermont i believe very strongly in the number of businesses there's a contract with the military to protect their . it's the kind of work yesterday at the university of vermont we saw what the entrepreneurs could do. there's been working very well. i am as outraged as everybody at what happened. i saw good men and women in the newport area getting jobs.

i'm glad the justice department was in there and we'll get to the bottom of it. the jobs will be there for vermont and that is good news but what we have been trying to do is tighten up eb five and make it work like it did or get rid of it. >> the question was talking about the vermont tax code that piggybacks more or less on the federal income tax that is unique to vermont. but i would say what's missing for the economic vitality can be delivered by the functioning senate as predictability. again the eb five related my opponent voted to shut down the government because he couldn't get his 99 colleagues to go with getting the spotlight off him.

when you have people voting to shut down a box of the people when they have been issued but yet when it's time to shut down the government that's fine. that's what's wrong in washington, we have people on either side it's so polarized. george aiken who might colleagues succeeded, my grandfather worked for george aiken in washington, d.c., ran his office for a while. from the time i was 7-years-old i grew up hearing stories from my grandfather. he was a centrist republican, new england republican that worked -- they need people to work to get things done that don't shubutdon't shut down thet because they don't get whatever else through. once we get a predictable functioning senate that is working and doing things the way it was, businesses will be more

into investing capital and it will be the greatest contribution i can make. >> of vermont economy, first mike commented on april 17 you said this is the first time you heard of this, isn't that what you said? it on the public record. that's proof that there was zero oversight even though they claim it they were checking the box. this is appalling. i would have hired a part-time accountant and i would have been interested in the program to keep tabs on it myself = very hands-on. you claimed you knew nothing about it because there was no oversight. by the way, it's a nationwide

program and in the same interview you commented about what's going on in new york. what's going on in new york? the eb five gravy train. you seem to think that was quite all right in that interview. how do you feel about that now i don't thin,don't you think thesr people are important? now that was my comment. on the economy, but i have to say is there are countries falling apart and we do need to rebuild and it would create some substantial jobs which is what we need. we need to fix the safety hazards we sometimes call roads in vermont and we need to do this with the 1% solution which is an investment tax on wall street to raise a substantial sum of money for investment instead of the gravy train ponzi schemes.

>> i'm the united states marijuana party and i have a plan to fix the state tax code in vermont which will also fix the tax code in every single other state. if you vote for me for the uniteunited states senator i wil sponsor a bill in the united states senate to outlaw the making of any state or federal law that has blank spaces. and by blank spaces i mean when the united states congress or the state of vermont passes a law and assays an it says and id administrative official can make the rules and regulations to fill-in the law. these people have been cheating collecting the taxpayer dollars in their paychecks and because they leave blank spaces in the law saying that unelected officials can fill-in the blank

and add the rules and regulations that can end you up in court losing your property and home and children and everything else so what we need to do is stop the unconstitutional making up rules and regulations by these unelected officials and make it a federal crime for state legislatures to make any law that has rules or regulations that are unconstitutional because they are made by unelected officials which is unconstitutional. you have a right by elected officials. >> a brief follow-up about the program. you don't feel that there's any responsibility that was a lack of oversight that resulted in the allegations? >> the oversight is done in vermont and by the state but i do believe that there's ample

reason for the department of justice to look into this. i'm not going to say anything to jeopardize or effect them but it's good when they do. what i am concerned about, my mother and my wife was born in the kingdom and they brought hundreds of millions worth of jobs. i bring the jobs to the northeast kingdom and i want those jobs to continue. i think it's also why they can

do very good things do we have seen places where it hasn't worked right and that's why we are working hard to reform or end it. you didn't vote in favor. >> i made it clear to a number of people voted against it for one reason or another. my point being we need to come back to this. >> let's go back to the phone. good evening. you are on the air. >> thank you for taking my call.

i have a question for senator leahy and incurious with the other candidates have to say. i'm interested in the protection the house majority gets whatever it wants. only are they protected from the tyranny of majority and w the me heard them talk about the nuclear option. i am hoping that both will commit to upholding -- one of the biggest things i would point

out to the caller it works better when they work together. i passed more legislation than the most people there. republican and democratic cosponsors. that's why it goes through and that's how it works. i voted for most nominees because they had the right to do that unless the person is not qualified. the senator said two things that are wrong and i will save my time for later unless you want to talk about it now. you didn't go to shut down the government, but you clearly did. he says he doesn't have any

responsibilities for the problem and he wants to talk about the kingdom but what we know now as there is a campaign and we have the news media talking about what's going on and there's more goingoing through the projects n hollywood and in the kingdom. not only are their ponzi schemes that we have hillarbut we have s brother involved in the scandal and harry reid. i didn't say you were the godfather, you did. saying that it's up to the justice department is like somebody building a bridge and then blaming it on the maintenance people when it falls out. you talk about country kitchen that was a good grocery store and country home products is an organization they've got $12 million of money.

you've changed the rules so you don't even have to hire people. they went out and got $12 million didn't hire one new person and they sold the company to one from wisconsin so how do you claim that you changed the rules with the lobbyist so that now jobs are created from investments don't even have to be in vermont anymore so how is that sticking up if it is a complete fiction and you need to come clean on it. >> do you want to comment on this? >> the question was on the filibuster and the use of the nuclear option i support the use of the filibuster.

but i don't think we should have world war iii. i don't think anyone should cause that calamity to occur. >> i think there is a rule that you can't leave to go to the bathroom or something, some ridiculous childish rule in the senate about not going to the bathroom when you're giving a filibuster? >> the capitalist view of taxation and its purposes are totally different from mine. i would tax away all of the private industry. the distribution with the now belonged to the community at large whether it be rail,

airplanes, car building, oil exploration, all major means of production distribution should belong to the community at large. private enterprise is robbery so you see here trying to make things work better and they can't work better they can only work words so i call on you to vote socialism. >> i disagree with my opponent in terms of socialism. >> his campaign has been the most negative campaign i've ever seen anybody run.

i can point to thousands of jobs i've created in my programs and that's what i do. you are the poster child who had a prophetic warning beware of the military industrial complex. things are going very bad in washington. i've will be great at getting our share of the money. it's a complete fiction he is some great goliath in bringing home the bacon. you can look at all kind of

numbers most i look at where six out of seven in the per capita share so small states have an advantage. if you count the promise is people like my opponent made over the last 42 years, we have 164 of 170-dollar deficit. >> we have a question from the audience. >> which of you would support or consider supporting an initiative to use a large portion of the budget for community centers in all of our cities? here in burlington we have a great lake may be starting here

we float this on a lake or put it on land but it can be moved around for a pilot project. >> we'll start this round with you. >> it is a great concept i think we need to start off by saying no to things and with all due respect it is a great idea but it's too easy to get elected by saying i'm going to give you whatever you want and that is why we are in perilous times and we need a new united states senator from vermont. >> we need to say yes to investing. spending on the wrong things and what we need is innovation and vision and reinvest in america because we are the poorest rich country in the world. i already answered that question and it's a good idea that we

take the other federal projects potentially big waste and put it towards community investment. >> if we use homeland security money for the community centers than they will put in all kinds of spy cameras and sound cameras and use them to spy on people. >> senator? >> that's fine with me. but it's got to be financed by the taxation so that the major means of production and distribution are owned by the community at large so that they become centers for management of the automobile industry for the farming industry and management of the other industries that

we've taken over through the taxation. no compensation to the folks that earned the major means of the production distribution. they belong to us and always have and we've been robbed by the capitalists sitting at this table trying to make it nicer and you can't make it nicer it's still oppression and it shows itself with the killing of qaddafi, the killing of pretty intends to kill the minister from haiti.

>> we have many community centers within a block of where we are sitting right here and i'm confident in the people who run them. floating on lake champlain and after while our other great lakes. let me restate, putting a community center on the lake champlain and then float it on the other five great lakes i think there is a far better use of money that would create community centers as we have done here in vermont. >> the senator is only in favor of 100 vermont. they want to militarize the air base, he and sanders and the welsh brothers, they want to

militarize everything they touch and one of the things they touch is the air base in burlington. >> your comment on the question? >> to clarify that is one per lake >> i apologize i misunderstood. my answer might have been different. >> good evening. you are on the air. ..

>> so north korea has to respond to having nuclear weapons because we -- submarine in south korea. so we started in when they

decide to match us we get very upset about that. nobody can match us. nobody can do it we do. right? start. right? start were everywhere, prevent peace treaties from being signed. a nuclear weapons within every region within the world except for the people who are aiming the month. >> let me take a minute with the rest of the group on nuclear proliferation. chris let's start out. >> again, i'm chris erickson, united states marijuana party. senator leahy has promoted bringing asked 35 fighter jets to vermont. they are due are capable for carrie nuclear bombs they're not safe to have near the burlington national airport. there is

simply not safe to have adjacent to the burlington international airport. now these fighter jets have been built with tax payer money what happens is the united states senate and members of the house of representatives vote to give your taxpayer dollars to the pentagon. and the pentagon gives things to each contractor and design more models of these components. there are several different designs of the strike fighter jets and they are being sold to foreign countries. again they are dual capable to carry nuclear weapons. >> -- then what happens is the defense contractors you some of the millions of dollars to be

give to their political action committees and give to patrick leahy, your money has come full circle, i call that money laundering. >> first welcome i think nuclear proliferation is very serious issue. i remember when i was a kid in the 60s were much more worried when we had two superpowers i worried about the threat of global annihilation. now we have a situation where there's been a potential for rogue nations gaining use of nuclear weapons with which is scarier. but this country spends an enormous amounts of money in part or of what are doing with your defense contract for a girl wasting hundreds of billions of dollars and yes and we're still spend money in this country do some investigative journalism there should we be leaving by continuing to do this so other countries playing catch-up that's not how we'll accomplish the true goal of global nuclear disarmament.

>> it would be great -- clearly i agree with the leader of your party, or president obama that you want to avoid mistakes but mistakes of action are better the mistakes of inaction. i don't know, i'm [inaudible] the inside, i don't get classified briefings. i applaud what president obama has done in iran. the persian people are a great nation. somebody that we need to respect , work with and have cordial relationships with cause we have a horrible history with how we treated the first democracy in iran in the 19 fifties. some of those chickens come home to roost. i applaud i applaud that. i think north korea's another place, you're very right, these people and bonds and all kinds of things there's problems.

i think we just need to be a nation that leads by example and need to be working hard to get countries engaged. senator leahy was right when he said were on the eve with of the cold war with russia again. i think a new voice, new ideas are better than what is been going on plus 42 years, with all due respect. that's one of the reasons i'm looking for to getting to work for vermont of the united states senate. >> with the exception of his last sentence her to agree with what he had to say. we should be working, working, you agree totally with him and with the president obama on stopping nuclear proliferation. i was shocked when donald trump talked about maybe will give nuclear weapons to south korea, maybe japan. people in south korea and japan are shocked to as well, as the rest of the world. it is a major problem.

pakistan, india with nuclear weapons. historic rivals. this is a very frightening thing. it is a threat to the rest of the world when there is nuclear proliferation. another very significant threat and we have to start working on it will require -- were doing some of this work in vermont and that is on cyber warfare. in cyber security. if north korea, god god for bid fired a missile at the united states, it has a return address. we know exactly where it came from. they would be obliterated. within a matter of minutes of doing it. what i worry about it cyber security is somebody who is able to hack into our power grid, it's the middle of january and the northeast and turn off our power. that is something we have to worry about.

i'm very proud of what champagne colleges doing, what the university is university is doing, this whole area of cyber security. they should be applauded. they trained their people the right way. >> we have to make the question quick. we'll take one minute on the answer. >> [speaking in native language] [speaking in native language]

[speaking in native language] bae-2. my name is henrique. this question goes to senator like he and the other candidates. i'm part of the immigrant community in the state of vermont doing some of the most difficult and dirty jobs here in the state. recently we have seen an attack against our community from ice, immigration and customs enforcement and i would like to know, are you willing to be part of the solution to calling for an immediate and two deportations against our community? >> first of all i would disagree with you about it being a dirty job there's tremendous dignity and work and i applaud you. i assume you're talking about working on jerry farm. good job. and i applaud you for doing that. i think the bigger issue is our immigration program and what we're going to do.

again, i don't want the election to be about you senator leahy, but i want to win so i need to talk about you. senator wants us to believe that after his election him and his partisan friends will get together be bipartisan. telling you, i'm going to be bipartisan now. i don't have a track record to the contrary that you have to overlook to believe that. when a competence of immigration reform. it it is one of the biggest priorities for america so that folks like yourself, that are here illegally do not have to worry about being deported unless you do something that is completely wrong. you are on a pathway to citizenship and is something i'm working hard to get a plan together and i will be a junior member of the united states and a, but there is momentum there. i'm looking for to it. >> i'm against deportation. my perspective on immigration is -- a native american that everybody is it an immigrant. this entire country was built by immigrants, let's not forget that. so i don't see i don't see immigrants as a negative force. there actually a positive force and a vital economy which we need to build.

how to quickly add that as a senator you have take responsibility for some of your defense appropriation pork barreling the goats towards building up this problem we have with nuclear weapons. i want to squeeze that in. i had to someone make a good talk but what actions speak louder than words is what i'm saying. >> go ahead. >> okay i'm chris, united states marijuana party. when i was a child my parents took in for machon gary and immigrants during the hungarian revolution. i'm 64 years old so this happened in 1956 when i was about four years old. i remember teaching them english and pointing to things and send the world and teaching are new for hungarian boys english. they stayed with us, they graduated graduated college eventually, they all became good citizens. while i was in junior high and high school i had a penpal from india. he went to medical school, came

over to the united states through legal immigration. you can look at his website. he is one of the finest orthopedic surgeons in northern california. we were penpals for years before my mother helped him to legally immigrate. my question to you sir, is why haven't you gone through a legal immigration program? >> i have to stop you there. peter, you are next. >> i would take the wall down and immigration should be freely available for everybody to go in and come out, go both directions. we should have no restrictions, we should have no ice, we should have nobody barring people from coming in.

that is where strength comes from except for one group of people with whom we'll to at least one of them, a quarter of 1,000,000 in reparation said that and that is the descendents of black slaves. we cannot, we must understand this nation was built on slavery. it's not an accident. slavery is not an accident. >> thank you. >> contrary to what my opponent says, you can do bipartisan things we had when the democrats were in charge of the senate i got 6068 votes, a key number of republicans and democrats across the political spectrum. we passed a comprehensive immigration bill. sixty-eight votes. then it was bought by the republican party in the house of representatives. they said they called it a -- rule where they must respect the memory of former speaker. so they would not bring it up.

i've been meeting quietly with a number of the same republicans and democrats in the past couple of months. we intend to get back together after the election and we're going to try again. we have proven in the senate that we can put those bipartisan coalitions. as chairman of the judiciary committee and we did it. >> we have just a couple minutes left. i want to give you each a 32nd opportunity. >> go to my website, jerry trudell for senate.com. see a blueprint to rebuild america that no one else has for some strange coincidence. what i am saying is, vote for ideas this time instead of the same old 20th century porkbarrel politics which is not getting us anywhere. it is keeping the politicians elected in office. that's all it is accomplishing. besides their piecemeal, what

they claim a past themselves on the back for their accomplishments. meanwhile the newport trader, that's -- >> thank you jerry. >> my name is chris harrison grandfather was born on the hemp lawn farm on the benson pike in shelbyville, kentucky. his name is george robert erickson and hemp and marijuana were illegal them. please go visit the united states marijuana party, u.s. mj party.com or national party and we believe that marijuana and hemp should be legalized under federal law. thank you. >> i believe that old drugs, legal, illegal, prescription and nonprescription should be the business of the population at large. that industry also needs to belong and be controlled by the population. we need to be able to say what we decide what the prices will be. in the case of illegal drugs, the price has to be no higher than cost. that is you cannot add taxes

week is as soon as you add anything and it builds a place for people to come in. >> thank you. >> make your last 32nd pitch. >> i believe in for my. i am a am a vermonter. i know i can help people i was i know i can help them. i was talking with a world war ii veteran, and jay -- one of the greatest generation. he said, i'm so glad you are running again because i have upheld the values that he fought for. i was was humble by that. i am humbled by the trust vermont has put in me. i would use every single second to fulfill the trust. >> thank you. thank you to our studio

audience, and fellow candidates. my name is scott mil and i hope three weeks from today will shuck america by changing the united states senate seat in vermont. passing it off to someone who is running a campaign with all volunteers, with no special interest money. i have not made one phone call, e-mail, drachma piece asking anybody for money. it's a campaign we have not seen in america for credible statewide candidate in 45 years. i would also -- you have to wrap up. >> i want to say check it out, it will be a big day for america. were going in the right direction and i want to thank the hundred thousand plus a vermonter's will support me in the election. >> thank you all very much for joining us here from burlington vermont for the united states candidate debate. for all of us here at channel 17, have a great night. >> c-span's washington journal, live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. coming up on wednesday morning, senior vice provost at the the university of nevada, las vegas on preparations for tomorrow's debate. melanie campbell of the black women's roundtable policy network on the organization's voting efforts in key

battleground in southern states. also, associate professor of history at the university of nevada, las vegas, michael green on the historical significance of the final presidential debate. professor and resident at university of las vegas looks at media coverage and how the students will participate. prime policy group talks about the republican campaign strategy , conflicts between donald trump and gop officials and gop house and senate prospects. watch c-span's "washington journal", live 7:00 a.m. wednesday morning. join the discussion. >> watches he spans live coverage of the third debate between hillary clinton and donald trump on wednesday night. our live debate preview from the university of nevada, las vegas starts at 7:30 p.m. eastern. the briefing for the debate studio audience is at 830 used

to. in the debate is at 9:00 p.m. eastern. stay with us for viewer reaction including calls, tweets and facebook postings. watch live or on-demand using your desktop, phone, or tablet at c-span.org. listen to live coverage on your phone with a c-span radio app. download it phone with the c-span radio app. downloaded from the app store google play. >> c-span, created by america's cable television companies about you as a public service by your cable or satellite provider. >> now tonight's debate debate between senate candidates from indiana. democratic former senator evan bayh, and two others answer question about healthcare, the environment, foreign-policy and social security in this hour-long debate hosted by the indiana debate commission.

>> good evening. and welcome to the indiana debate commission u.s. senate debate. we are coming to live from the studio public television station in indianapolis. joining me tonight are three candidates who helped to represent who hope to represent you, the people of indiana in washington. the winner will succeed senator dan coats, republican who is retiring. i'm your moderator, can oh one, executive director of media relations at depaul university in greencastle. i'm also former television news anchor and reporter. thanks. secluded time at tv stations here and at wayne and fort wayne. for the the next are the candidates will debate a variety of domestic and international issues that a u.s. senator is likely to face. many of the questions came from you, members of the public, who submitted wearies to the debate commission about what concerns you. some of those who provide a are here with us tonight in person. none of the questions i will be asked tonight have been shared in a vance with any of the three candidates. with that taken care of, here

are our candidates. lucy brenton is the libertarian candidate. she is a finance professional. evan bayh is a democratic candidate, former u.s. senator and former governor of indiana. tom young is the republican candidate, his the congressman represented indiana's ninth district in the cell central and southeast part of the state. the candidates positions on the stage in the order in which they will answer the questions were determined by lot conducted by the debate commission. after i asked the question each candidate and turned will have the opportunity to respond for one minute. rebuttal periods of 30 seconds each will be on an as-needed basis. if a candidate exceeds the amount of time given for his or her response i will have to ask them to stop. before the final question, each candidate will be able to address the topic of their choice. this allows the candidates to discuss the topic they feel is important but

hasn't been touched on by the question in the actual program. they can also go back to a topic that was discussed earlier so they can delve into it further. that candidates have agreed to rules which included no props or parent notes at the podium. at this time the candidates will have the opportunity to further introduce themselves. we'll have them make a one minute opening statement starting with mrs. brennan. >> good evening. i like to thank the indiana debate commission, my fellow hoosiers in my esteemed opponents. my name is lucy brenton, you probably don't know who i am because i haven't spent 30,000,000 dollars to win a job that pays under 200,000 dollars per year. you know me because i'm a wife, mother, daughter of a disabled american veteran and a hoosier wife who is sick and tired of what is going on who is sick and tired of what is going on in our country. special interest groups have hijacked us. it's time we send them a new message that hoosier voters can't be bought. i'm running against mr. bayh

because he spent too much time in d.c. looking for a lobbying job instead of serving hoosiers. he's not one of us. i'm running against mr. young because he talks conservative but when it comes down to the boat, he votes he votes to raise the national debt. that's okay because as your senator i will uphold the rule of law so there's justice for everyone. i will call for strong national defense we can be safe. i will work to end the debt burden faced a grandchildren. hopefully you will see a brighter future for our america. thank you. >> take you. >> mr. bayh your opening statement. >> thank you it's great to be here and it's great have a conversation with my fellow hoosiers. i'm pleased to be joined by my wife's of 31 years, susan. sweetheart, i love you. i know will hear negative attacks from the course of this evening from congressman young and i'm looking for to answer those attacks. for someone to tell you why i'm running and what we can do to solve your problems, that's, that's what this election should be about. a money tab small businesses get capital they need to expand and create jobs.

i'm running to level the playing field on trade deals or jobs will be shipped to mexico and china. i'm running to make sure that college is a portable building on the 21st century scholars program circuits can go to college. like the desert. i'm running to mix or that social security and medicare are there for you and your golden years. i will work with republicans, democrats, and libertarians to make progress for you. i'll fight against the extremes of both parties to make progress for you. making progress for you, helping our families and building a better indiana indiana better america is what this election should be about. >> mr. young, your one minute opening statement. >> thank you. growing up in indiana my dad used to tell me every day, if i dream if i dream big and work hard, good things would happen like. i believed it. i still believe it. jenny and i want our four children to believe it as well. we want for the four children what every hoosier wants. a quality education that turns into a good paying job, that leads to a meaningful career and affordable healthcare.

my believe in the future took me to the u.s. naval academy. to give meaning to my service in the u.s. marine corps is or well in the private economy. i spent most my professional life fighting to protect and preserve america's promise. right now it's under fire. i'm not a career politician, i'm not a lobbyist, i'm a hoosier. i'm a marine marine who wants to put people before politics. at a time when far too many of our career politicians have forgotten who they work for, where they live, you can't even imagine a cause greater than themselves, i will always serve a cause greater than myself a this marine will always serve you. i hope turn your support. >> thank you mr. young. we are on tour first question of the evening. as i told you at the top several questions will be presented by voters. with us tonight is brian, teacher from -- >> to the general public, congress is seen as an institution that is not working. republicans and democrats alike fail to come together to address

major issues affecting our country. where in your political career can you point to a time in which you worked with members of the other party to accomplish something meaningful? >> mrs. brenton will start with you. >> thank you for the question. i appreciate that. in fact, i am a libertarian so there has not yet been a political office that i've held. what i do have is ten children. i will tell you there's no more peacemaking across in the asset comes along when you are looking at fight between a 16-year-old and a 14-year-old. i would like to no experience to congress because quite frankly sometimes some of our congressional members act like children and sometimes they should probably be put in a corner. without those extremes it's time we work together as a family and nation for the solutions that will bring us economic prosperity and peace.

>> mr. bayh. >> thank you for your question. and thank you for your work with our children. i'm proud to have been endorsed by indiana's teachers in this election. let me give you two examples. the first is probably something that is near and dear to your heart. i worked with the. i worked with a republican state senate and a democratic house of representatives to pass the 21st century scholars program that enabled 70,000 young people people to go on to afford in an education. it will be better employees, and more responsible citizens but it's good for all of us when we create a country of opportunity that allows young people to work hard, do the right thing, and get ahead. that's what we need more of in washington, dc. another example is working with senator collins from income a republican to bring together all of the efforts in our country to fight alzheimer's. it's a terrible disease and it flicks to many of our families. we added resources and coordinated the efforts and i was honored last spring to get an award for that. making it possible for kids to go to college, fighting altheimer send pulling together in a bipartisan way to move our country forward, that's what this election should be about.

>> mr. young. >> thank it for the question. hoosiers are tired of the empty rhetoric. throughout my very short political life i've been able to work across the aisle to get consequential things done. one example would be repealing the 30 hour provision and obama care. restoring the 40 hour workweek. this is. this is a provision and obama care that it has put at risk the jobs, hours, and wages of 2.6 million american workers. i've been very proud to get that passed out of the house of representatives and hope to continue to fight for it as your next united states senator. it's unfortunate we have the permission to deal with in the first place. obama care never needed to be passed. hoosiers pleaded with evan bayh but he ignore their wishes and instead decided to listen to pinnacle interest in washington, dc. he. he listened to his party bosses. i'm a her t-shirt marine and will always the paper hoosier values and do what ever is an hoosiers best interest not the interest of party leaders in washington, d.c. >> mr. bayh would you like to

rebut that? >> of course i would. i agree with congressman young. we should extend the definition of the week trend work week from 30 hours to 40 hours. i also think we need to expand the definition of small business from 50 to 100 to make it easier and small businesses. congressman was to take us back to the insurance days where companies have unlimited profits. he wants to take health insurance away, he wants to reopen the donut hole costing our seniors by the $1400 per year in drug costs. we don't want to go back to those days and i will fight to make sure we don't. >> i'm really excited about the interference in the natural relationship between an employer and employee. it's not up to government to decide whether 30

hours or 40 hours is an appropriate workweek. it's up to the employee and employer to negotiate that between himself. if we can get rid of the government interventionism we can go back to a time where people actually matter. in fact in world war ii the only reasons we came up with the insurance benefits was because of price and wage control prevented us from paying workers what they're worth. we came up with the insurance scheme to give them money. >> evan bayh just defended obama care. hoosiers find it unpopular because it's a job killer. it's the largest tax increase in american history and it was imposed by heaven by evan despite the wishes of hoosiers. it was imposed during the worst possible moment during our recovery. no wonder we are not joint growing more jobs in this country. 21 new taxes and obama care, most of which fall on middle-class hoosier families. their healthcare costs continue to go up. this is a bad. this is a bad ball. we need to start over in a bipartisan way. >> i will give you 15 seconds each because i see mr. bayh wants to weigh in. >> we need to fix the parts of the law that need to be fixed by

congressman young wants to take us back to the days when insurance companies can charge women more for their healthcare because they are women. he wants to deny healthcare coverage for 350,000 citizens. governor penson i think that shouldn't be done. he wants to go back to the days were insurance companies can cancel days were insurance companies can cancel your policy because got sick. i don't think that's a step in the right direction. >> mr. young. >> these are clearly d.c. politician talking points. they bear no resemblance to the reality. what i want. what i want to do is work together, republicans, democrats, ground up. i want to consult with hoosiers about the healthcare program they want to bring down costs, expand access to care to all americans. evan bayh evan bayh wants to maintain obama care, a law that cannot be sustained and it's causing harm. >> why are we bickering about what a person should be forced to do? the fact of the matters that americans deserve to be free. they deserve to be free from government regulations that comes along with the first insurance scam.