decade. we should be putting policies in place to generate the growth in our economy and that's what we're not getting out of washington today. the heavy hand of regulation, heavy hand of tax. we have a fundamental disagreement. i'm anxious to his answer because he believes in raising every type of tactic he wants to raise payrolraise payroll taxes. he believes south dakota under attack. he wants a state income tax. he wants to have a gas tax, at the number i heard was 1 dollar per gallon. he wants to a carbon tax. you go right down the list. that's not the way you do with the deficit. that kills economic growth. what we need to get growth in our economy is tax reform that lowers rates and broadens the base and creates incentives for people to invest based on the return in the marketplace. tax reform ought not be about growing government. got to be about growing the economy. >> moderator: what i did go to take to washington to help with our debt? williams: our debt is actually not the problem.

the reason it's not is because interest rates are near zero. that debt is an enduring interest. that, some are advocating that debt is a fine thing. i don't advocate that. what causes the debt, the reason for the debt is the deficit. that is, when spending is over revenues, okay? since president obama took control, president obama inherited a $1.4 trillion deficit. the republican president before him who implement the same policies that senator thune is espousing took a $1 billion surplus and turned it into $1.4 trillion deficit. that became a real problem. over the eight years of president obama he turns out $1.4 trillion deficit into a war hundred dollars deficit he reduced it by two-thirds. how did he do that? almost all of it was by spending

cuts. the republicans refused to give any kind of revenue enhancement. my position on revenue enhancement is yes, we do need to pay some more taxes. who needs to pay? the people who have been benefiting our economy, that is the people at the very top, the top 1%. those people don't pay their taxes. a presidential candidate, a multibillionaire donald trump, he took a 900 billion loss in his taxi. he doesn't pay taxes. that's the problem we have is the rich guys don't pay any taxes. we need to reform our tax system. we need to reform it so we can get taxes from everyone, not just the middle-class, not just a hard-working south dakotans. rabbit is a part of it. if raven had been a part of president obama's program would have a balanced budget and we would be getting rid of our debt. i think a balanced budget amendment that senator thune

just brought up is actually a bad idea because when things come up, i mean, we have been in war before. we that terrorist attacks. we don't know what's going to come up a make it so the federal government couldn't borrow money when it needs money, that would be a terrible thing. i'm totally against the balanced budget and then it. it works okay in south dakota. for the states that the the, but the federal government is finally different. that illustrates a misunderstanding between the state governments and federal government cannot senator, do we need to revamp our tax system so there are more equally dispersed? thune: we need tax reform for sure. we have tax increases. j.jjay they've forgotten this bt under present on we had once been dollars tax increase with obamacare and a $700 tax increase will make the fiscal cliff a couple years ago. there's been $1.7 trillion increase in taxes under the current administration. we are going, we are on a glide

path now to get back up to trillion dollar deficits. we have a $20 trillion debt already today, and what the stuff i've seen and heard j.c., he doesn't discriminate on who gets the tax increases. he said stuff because our attacks. he said we need a state income tax. he said we need to raise the payroll tax, pay more sales tax, pay more property taxes. i don't know how, jay may be the most liberal democrat our government and the state of south dakota. he wants to raise all taxes. my point is that's reform the tax system and get away a lot of these exclusions and deductions and special interest loopholes that are in there today. get the rates down, create economic incentives for people to invest the purpose of tax reform ought to be economic growth. because what solves all these problems, you want to see deficit small, you want to pay down debt, get the economy growing at a more traditional three-3.5% but instead of 1% rate that we've seen this year

and a one-to present we see the balance of the obama administration. that's what will help get us back on a more secure fiscal track. reduce and restrain spending and economic growth tonight before i move onto foreign policy, i want you to respond to that. williams: it's interesting, these policies senator thune is espousing have been tried. george bush did those and almost had worldwide economic collapse. if we want economic growth rate benefits and the public works programs we need to make this country better. for instance, we could build the electric grid that we just go in the to go from fossil fuels to clean energy. here in south dakota we've got lots of wind. everybody knows the wind blows but we can't take that wind energy, harness it and distribute it around the country because we don't have the electric that we need. to build the electric did it a big huge public works project on par with the interstate highway system that was republican program.

those kind of programs will provide economic growth. the kind of economic growth we need t when we can put the money in the hands of the working people, the people can spend. all the money has gone to the top. a great illustration is john thune and my campaign contributions. he started out in december with $11 million in his campaign war chest the i have a little under $60,000. my campaign donations all come from regular south dakotans. people who give me small donations him and quite a few of them but not the kind of huge pools at the top type money that senator thune has. senator thune is talking about giving the people at the top of the money. we really can't do that. you may think i'm a liberal democrat what i am is a practical person, and practical south dakotans who wants to see everybody pay their fair share and everybody worked together to do the things it can make our country grow and prosper. we've had economic growth, economic growth since president

obama took over. it hasn't been 3% but it's been steady at it is provided, it is reduce unemployment data full employment. it's been great economic growth, sure. it should be better but when the republicans obstruct everything president obama wants to do it's hard to get that done the night before the font i know a lot of viewers at home are listening and heard thus senators say you want to raise more taxes in south dakota. i want you to respond to the. do we need to raise more taxes? williams: i'm really not focusing o on state taxes to fos in federal taxes. this is a federal job on running for. i think we pay plenty of property tax. do we have a state income tax? republishes have an income tax for our businesses. i think of business income tax would make some sense. most states do have state income tax. it's not a big burden on state taxpayers. i'm not opposed to taxes. i believe taxes are your duty as a citizen of this country.

we have a wonderful country we live in but we have to pay for advertising copy goes agree. i think they think it's not fair not to pay for things. that's what taxes are. thune: i don't think south dakotans would agree with a 1 dollar per gallon gas tax. now with the support a carbon tax which would dramatically increase the cost of electricity. we have a lot of people living in fixed incomes in the state. what he's advocating, talking about is not a state income tax can't abide with it is that the city of held, and it may not be a federal issue but it's a position you held. these taxes are taxes that hit hard-working taxpayers in south dakota. people on fixed incomes. when you start talking about 1 dollar per gallon increase for gasoline in this country or electricity, these are things that people need in everyday lives. williams: when we talk about a carbon tax, probably the biggest

thing we face in the country today and then everybody in the world face is what's happening to our vibrant. our environment is keeping an unprecedented level. we've gone from, without a one degree increase in temperature in our atmosphere since 1900. the reason for that is because of fossil fuels. we have to programs to stop the. we need to aggressive pashtun address and address of another the carbon tax senator thune hates is the republican ideas but it's a pretty good idea. it's a way to reduce the a lot of carbon that goes into our vibrant if we don't do that, issues going to cost us more in the future. you talk about south dakotans on fixed incomes, when we start seeing the terrible effects of a climate change, which we are already seeing, that becomes way, way more expensive the south dakotans have to pitch in as well. everybody has to pitch in to save our world. we can't just ignore that. i think that are good really wasted to do that. as far as a 1 dollar a gallon

gas tax, that's something i haven't actually advocated. but i do think would be a good idea to put a big tax on gasoline to make people move away from gasoline. i drive an electric car. electric is where we have to go. that technology has to happen and has to happen soon to people say to me, but we have to wait and go slow. we can't go slow. went to the fast. we can do it because technology is our strength. they say the last carbon pace car will be manufactured in 2035. in 2050 the last will be on the road. we need to move up 10 years. we need it was amusing all this carbon and hurting our vibrant china we are going to move onto foreign policy. we've got a growing threat of isis. americans don't feel safe. jay, i'm going to start with you into in with senator thune on this one. what changes need to be made to implement more safety and to ensure that we are safe from

groups like isis? williams: we have been safe from groups like isis. there've been some small attacks but since the 9/11 attacks we haven't had another huge attack. president obama is the one who got osama bin laden, the guy who did those attacks against us. so we need to do things like that. we need to be smart about the way we deal with the world. especially with these fundamentalists who really for some reason hate the united states. after 9/11 i advocated that the united states get muslim clerics around the country and go to afghanistan and to the middle east in general and inundate them with food and supplies and humanity aid to make the world better for them. instead, we chose to go to war which i think was a bad idea. having served in vietnam myself, i know that work is a really terrible way to do things.

way to get people to go on your site is to work with them and be friendly and to show them that you are on their side. make allies of the plots of muslims in this country and we can work with them and work with the people who made us in the east and finally to work with and understand they are cutting off peoples heads and doing really atrocious things. we need to deal with as well but the way to deal with that is defined allies throughout the world, allies in the middle east that will work with us to eliminate the people who are just completely unreasonable, and we're doing that with drone strikes and special forces, that kind of thing. but the main thing we need to do is change the attitude of those people. changes so they don't hate us because people who hate us are going to come after us. hate is a terrible thing. we need to battle hate. we need to work for love, and i think we can do that. i don't think it's naïve. i think it's what we need to do. we need to address these, people

who are really hating us and try to convince them not to hate us. we can use our own people in this country to do that kind of senator thune, is our current foreign policy working? what changes do we need to make? thune: there've been so many mistakes made in the last several years it's hard to know where to start. the president did not enforce the red light in cia, signing a bad iranian nuclear deal. when it comes to pulling out all the troops out of iraq even against the commanders recommendations, those have created the conditions have been faithful with the price of isis. it is a threat and it isn't, it is not our strength that gives our adversaries. it's our weakness. i appreciate jay's military service. anyone who has worn the uniform and served our country deserves our greatest respect. he is just fundamentally wrong. terres, giving them food and comfort and aid is not going to

be a way to stop terrorist organizations. they understand one thing. they understand strength. we have not projected strength. one thing i think we have to do is we've got to take the battle to isis, where they are in the middle east and will be a big effort to try to take back mosul and we will be supplying intelligence and training the iraqis and the coalition forces have to believe that we've got to fight it there. that means we have to that people come into this country to if they come from a region where terrorist organizations operating and to represent in the judgment of our national security officials a security threat to americans and homeland we've got to do more thorough vetting of people who are coming here. finally, we've got to make sure that our intelligence officials have the tools that they need to find lone wolf terrorists and sleeper cells and those sorts of things that might exist in this country. we've got to protect american citizens when they fly. i mentioned the aviation

security bill we passed earlier this year in congress and the president signed into law. it has provisions that will make it harder for terrorists to attack people who are using those types of transportation opportunities and alternatives in this country. it's a multipronged effort but we've got to take the fight to them. we've got to defend the homeland and make sure we're thoroughly vetting people who come into this country. and got to do everything we can to ensure that our intelligence committee as the tools it needs and that we are taking the necessary steps when it comes to protecting the targets of the stairs attacks, and for those airports and airplanes and aviation. williams: we have dated people and we are. we have a great suspect the terrorist attacks we've seen in the united states that in most baseball been from a homegrown terrorist. that goes back to my point. went to work with people in our own country so that terrible hate that exists, and that he is not just muslims hating us.

it's also right wing fascist hating us. there's some hate him we need to deal with that. our own people, all the vetting in the world will not stop the. i want to just go over a couple things he said that a really wrong. for instance, dave rainey do. wind and rain ago, when the train was negotiating that deal, senator thune signed a letter along with 47 other of his republican cohorts encouraging the leadership of iran not to be kosher with the united states. if i do not as a naval officer i would've been court-martialed. ascended to one of the court-martialed but is a wrong thing to do. meanwhile, everybody was saying when we are talking with iran come in the event of a nuclear weapon. they all really quick to send in forces to kill people. instead we've negotiated a deal with iran will not have a nuclear weapon. 10 years after the deal is done, aand we've been trading within and working with them, iran's will be our friend.

will not have to go to war with iran. i want to go to war with iran. and mosul, tacky mosul, that is coalition forces. that's not use troops. we have to support coalition to that's exactly what president obama is doing is working with our allies to get them to take the lead on things. we don't need to send our troops. we need to work to resolve these issues with other people, work together. we are never so strong as when we help people. that is what projects strength. battleships or aircraft carriers and bombs we don't projects strength. what projects strength is helping people. a great example is when there's something collapse in the world like this happened in haiti with his big hurricane, what goes there? united states aircraft carriers and gives them food and supplies and help. that's what shows we are strong and that's when we projects strength. thune: you would have fully help iran acquire a nuclear capability because that's what

this deal does. this deal puts them on a path toward nuclear capability, gave him $150 billion in sanctions relief. they are the world's leading sponsor of terror. they fund hezbollah. they find hamas. they fund the who sees in yemen. they found that militias in iraq, a shiite militia. they find every type of terrorist organization at what we've done is given in the capacity to even create more care in the region. and we did that, and now we're paying ransom to pay them $400 million ransom to get people back. that's not projected strength but this was a bad deal. the reason that the letter went from members of cars was because the president would not listen to members of congress. the president went to united nations to get their approval. he bypassed the entire united states congress and basically what we are saying is if you do a deal, this deal is good for

the duration of this administration. but if you don't have the involvement of the legislative branch, the article one branch of the constitution and, therefore, make it a treaty which is ratified by the senate and, therefore, durable, it's only as good as long as the president is in office. that was what we're making. i think it's going to affect the president decide to completely bypass congress, go with united nations for their approval to sign a bad deal that puts iran on the path to a nuclear capability and freed up $150 billion in sanctions relief that they can use to fund terrorist activities in the region transit that's disingenuous to say the. everyone said iran will have a nuclear armed into you. but once said that. senator thune, he went to the latest of the rent and said don't negotiate with us. that verges on treason to i will call him of treason but it was a terrible thing to do, and embarrassing thing for our state and our country. he should never have done.

what we have instead is that iran who got rid of all the centrifuges and get rid of the nuclear stuff, and contain years, and 10 years they will not have any interest in having a nuclear weapon. so to say this is just not accurate track of they don't have to distort a single single centrifuge. all this does is delay to our policy in the past has been to prevent iran from acquiring a nuclear to the building. this puts on the pathway to getting it china and we will talk about social security. we've got about 165,000 south dakotans received social security. they rely on the spending for half of the income. 20% relied on it for the whole income. they are concerned there's going to be cuts, look at nearly 25% cuts which means losing roughly 10,000 a year. if elected will you take actions to updates also security so it is financially sound and provides adequate income for

current and future generations? williams: the answer is yes, because also security is a great social program. the worst thing we could do is privatize it and take it away from like my children who will have it in another 30-40 years. so yes, i will take action to one of the first things is a limit to cap on the payroll tax. also security tax in that about $120,000. in spite of the fact people's incomes are much, much higher than that. there's no reason to have a cap on security tax. social security tax should be, we would fund social security if we would just do that. the other thing we can do is the federal government can find other ways to pay back this also secrete trust fund that they borrowed from. so social security can't indeed be solvent it's just a matter of allowing personal take the cap off that artificial cap off the payroll tax and allow it to be funded. i think it's a great program and

i am fully committed if elected to ensure that social security stays an in it is better for muh of and grandchildren turn the several people from aarp that sentence question related to this. they also want to know what you be willing to make it a top priority if you make it to washington? >> i would. >> moderator: senator thune, same question in terms of the concern that people have with the future of social security. for people today that a receiving and future generations. ..

it also as important that we figure out how we are going to make it sustainable. i'm now a grandfather. i'm very interesting in seeing that the programs were available for future generations of americans and in order to do that we have to figure out ways to make them work more efficiently. this would apply to anybody that retired today or retiring age but for my granddaughter saving retirement age increase over period of time. people are working longer and living more productive lives and we want to encourage them to work longer. it is one way for sure. sustainability for social security and i would say the same thing with regard to

looking at income testing and those are, i think, reforms that have been talked about a lot by people and i'm very committed. if we get through this election and we get a congress and a president that we take on these issues because otherwise it goes over cliff and if it goes over cliff you have to have mass tax increase or reduction in benefits and so the sooner we take action on these issues, the sooner we are going to get a solution in place that makes programs sustainable for future generations of americans. >> i'm moving on because there's a couple of topics that we want to get to and we are running out of time. agriculture. it too made the top list for questions that folks wanted us to ask tonight. part of the concern is they are not hearing the concern of agriculture at national level. i know both of you know how important it is for south dakota

. when it boils down to the questions we received, will you keep ag at the forefront if you make it to washington? >> absolutely. i've been a member at the committee and i worked with senator democrat from montana in 2008 on that farm bill to get a permanent livestock disaster program included. that was so important because a couple of years ago we had a bad drought. that particular provision delivered $265 million of assistance to about 20,000 ranch families in western south dakota over the course of two-year period. that's why those are important. as we think about the next farm bill and expires in the fall of 2018, i think, there are a number of things we need to do. one is ensure that crop insurance is strong, crop

insurance is used by 90% of producers here in south dakota. it's become the signature safety net of the modern farm program. secondly have a commodity tiet that will has program provisions in it that allow when you have an economic collapse like we are dealing with now that will kick in and provide stability and additional safety net for farmers. make sure that we keep the permanent disaster title in there. that's what helps ranchers in south dakota. we need to come up with working ideas, provide incentives for farmers to put land and also the added benefit of increasing wildlife production and we have to have incentive for beginning farmers. it's hard for farmers to get started with land prices where they are today. we are in a downturn. we will get this thing turned around. it may not be tomorrow but most

people think 2018 we are going to see better times and we have to expand markets and that's why making sure that we are in the middle in negotiating good trade deals and enforced is important as well. >> jay, same question, what are you going to do to help our farmers in florida. >> this is a place where we have quite a bit agreement. that would be a terrible thing because family farms are the most productive type things ever. i grew up on a family farm and i saw the kind of production they can do but they need help. two years of crop failure can put you out of business. say like we had in 2013 when the government was shut down. i need to warn you that senator thune voted against it in 2013. now he came back and voted for

it in 2014 but half of his republican cohorts voted in 2014, nearly half. the support for the farm bill really comes from democrats. you're a farmer here in south dakota and you want to make sure the farm keeps going, you need to elect democrats. >> can i just make -- >> you bet. this might be of interest to you . during time in office had six farm bills, they voted against four of them. >> cybersecurity, jay, i'm going to start with you, another big issue and i'm talking here at the consumer level. people are worried about these hackers, thieves breaking into our accounts, they want to know what they can do to stop folks and what is your plan to help protect americans from being hacked. >> you know what, it is a big issue. we are seeing it right now with

the wikileaks that are coming out. those are -- they hacked into emails to get those, of course, i'm a techy-sort of guy and i worked in the industry for most of my career. i'm pretty aware of the security issues that we have and we need to do things to take care of that. how do we approach that? the way we can approach that is by having, you know, programs in place that make it so that our -- our internet, for instance, our internet have adequate fire wall that is prevent people from getting in there and plus educating people about the internet and about how open it is and so that when you send an e-mail out and you think to yourself that's a private between you and the person you send it to, you need to know that that's not true. when you go to your bank and you put in your atm card and you get your money back, well, those banks, they need to make sure that their portals to outside internet are secure and we can make that happen.

that's a matter of technology and, you know, one thing the united states is really good at is technology. so there's things we can do and i'm very committed to see that that happens. >> same question, senator, cybersecurity, how can we help in. >> iwell, i think it's a real issue particularly for our seniors. our seniors get preyed on. 6,000 seniors in south dakota to talk about this and to give them suggestions if they think that they're being preyed upon that we can actually help prevent that from happening and came out of a ball that we moved in senate commerce committee that gives ftc more of a focus and authority to go after those who are perpetrating fraud on seniors in this country. and i think those are the types of things that we can do. we need to focus on this issue particularly when it comes to our elderly population here in south dakota who are constantly being preyed upon by the groups that are trying to hack in and -- and harm them.

and the other thing that i would say is about three years ago i was the ranking republican at the time on the senate commerce committee, jay rockefeller was the chairman, we worked together on a bill that creates a best practices, a lot of standards that government and business and others in that field can use and we've got to keep coming up with solutions like that so that when somebody gets hacked, if somebody has a solution that that information is shared an everybody knows what those best practices are out there and but it's an ongoing threat in the world of technology. it's a threat that we are going to have to continue to deal with but i'm particularly concerned about how it impacts seniors here in south dakota and make sure that we are taking steps to prevent that. >> all right. we've had the opportunity to talk to both of you about a lot of issues. now we are going to give you each the opportunity for a closing statement. you'll have one minute to share your thoughts, whatever you want with the voters of south dakota,

senator thune, we will start with you. >> thank you, stephanie and public broadcasting and aarp and my opponent jay williams for the opportunity that we've had. i've always believed that elections are policy differences. as you can see we have significant policy differences. i believe that south dakota needs a strong voice in the united states senate. they want everybody who will represent their interest and want limited but effective government that's efficient and effective and accountable with tax dollars. i believe that they believe in economic freedom, in personal freedom with individual responsibility. most south dakotans think that peace comes through strength and those are the values that i will bring representing in the united states senate. south dakotans are hard-working people. i will continue to be an advocate for them and take on the big challenges that face the country in the future. that's why i'm asking for their both on november 8th.

>> all right, thank you, senator. jay williams, you too have about one minute and you can visit with the viewers right now. >> thank you, stephanie and i want to thank south dakota broadcasting and aarp and you for talking issues over. south dakotans have a chance this year to do something unprecedented in the election, you can elect a person who is not a politician. i'm not a politician. i'm a south dakota boy born and raised on a farm here in south dakota. i'm a navy veteran with service in veteran. as a navy pilot i served in europe as rescue pilot. i have a master's degree in computer science, i worked in the high-tech industry. i started my high-tech business and i bring you the opportunity to vote for somebody who is just like you a regular south dakotan, not a politician, no behold to go a party and not behold to go special interest and big money groups, i ask for

your both on november 8th and i hope you will consider me and thanks again, stephanie. >> thank you, that's all the time we have. thank you to the republican senator candidate thune and jay williams. you missed discussion, no worries you can hear in radio where you can hear the complete program in its entirety. be sure to join us next thursday as the candidates running for the office of united states house of representatives join me. it'll be another live to rum. that's thursday october 20th, with the discussion beginning at 8:00 p.m. central 7:00 mown tape. there's still time if you want to send your question for house candidates. you can e-mail those to me. you can also post them on our social media pages. for more information on all of our election coverage visit our website at sdpb.org/selection.

on behalf of aarp south dakota and south dakota public broadcasting, i'm stephanie, we thank you for watching. goodnight. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> coming up at 7:00 p.m. eastern the ohio senate race with incumbent republican rob portman and former democratic governor ted strickland debating for the second time this week. c-span will have the debate live . candidates in new hampshire u.s. senate race incumbent kelly

ayotte and maggie hassan debate opioid crisis in the state. >> what i've worked to do as governor and what i hope to be able to do in the united states nat is build a future for our country where hard-working people know that if they're working every day, they can get ahead and stay with stay ahead, where we grow our middle class so we are all thriving together and where participants are confident again that their kids are going to have a better future. that's the vision that democrats share and because we share that and because it's a vision that hillary clinton shares, i support hillary clinton. i know it's a vision that bernie sanders supporters share and that's why so many of them support hillary clinton as well. now, i will never fail to stand up to leaders in my own party as i have. for instance, i differ with secretary clinton and the president on the president's proposal to close guantanamo.

i don't support that proposal. i differ with the president on the tpp, i differed with secretary clinton on the internet sales tax, i differed with secretary clinton on taking a temporary pause to make sure that our vetting system is as effective as absolutely possible. so those are issues i've stood up to hillary clinton about, but let me just be clear to equate hillary clinton and donald trump in the same sentence is unacceptable. and i am very concerned, what you didn't hear my opponent say is why she supported donald trump for over a year as he made one sexist comment after the next, after he made one racist comment after the next and made fun of people with disabilities, he is a man who seems to think cruelty is a support -- sport and her support for him has been unacceptable. >> rebuttal. >> well, first of all, i've renounced donald trump's statements on many occasions on

issues that governor hassan has identified and i've clearly said where i stand on donald trump and hillary clinton. i won't be voting for either of them and, again, if you -- >> are you writing in mike pence? >> i will be. if you look at the issues the governor has and talked about recently she was interviewed about bringing 65,000 syrian refugees here and she would not answer where she stood on that. so when you think about issues about protecting the country, the iran agreement and when you hear her talk about differences these are not major differences. >> we will come back to that. quick comment, governor. >> senator ayotte until last saturday was willing to put donald trump in the situation room with access to nuclear codes and he is the same person on saturday as he was on friday

as he was the previous day and that shows a very concerning lack of judgment and with regard to secretary clinton's refugee proposal, i don't think we should be talking about numbers at all. i think we should be taking a temporary pause and improving vetting system. >> can i move on. you can come onto any point you want. next question was brought of you by one of you in the beginning. one of the thing, i believe, listeners are feeling and wondering when we are going to talk about economy, healthcare costs are going up in new hampshire, they're not coming down, deductibles are going up, the affordable care act was supposed to make it more affordable, why is health care more expensive and some are saying it's effecting the ability for businesses to grow, do you support and why are costs higher? >> we have to make improvements and healthcare costs are a continuing surgeon -- concern as

they for a long time. run of the reasons i ran because a law passed in new hampshire that raised premiums by 200 to 300% by small businesses and i was part of coalition to overturn that law and begin to take on insurance companies and work to improve access, but here is the thing about the affordable care act, while there are issues with it and we do need to make improvements, we don't wanting to back to a time before the affordable care act where people with preexisting conditions couldn't get health insurance. we certainly don't want to repeal medicaid expansion, we have a bipartisan new hampshire health protection program that is medicate expansion, over 50,000 hard working have coverage because of it including substance abuse and behavioral coverage that wasn't available behind and washington keeps voting to repeal that medicaid expansion.

i will block any attempt to take away health care from 50,000 hard-working people. >> thank you, governor. affordable care act, senator ayyotte. just quickly donald trump and republicans, a lot of people say we need to repeal it. probably not realistic politically speaking. so what do you replace it with? what are do you replace it with? >> the affordable care act is not so affordable for people in new hampshire. when it was passed we were told if you liked your plan you can keep it.

the claim was that families would be paying $2,500 less. they're paying so much more. we are waiting to hear the increase this year. higher deductibles and higher copays. we had the exchange of 11,000 people had to find new insurance as a result of it. even president bill clinton said this is a crazy system where you have hard-working people who are being cross haired and so much. i want to have more competition, more choice, not one size fits all from washington. i want to expand health savings accounts, i do want to make sure we address preexisting conditions and those who need the support who can afford health care but shouldn't be done in the way that it's been done. this is an issue request if you want to make significant changes to the affordable care act there

is a big difference in this race and i will be fight to go make sure that people in new hampshire have affordable health care and are paying higher premiums from the one size fits all from washington which we have seen from this bill and, in fact, secretary clinton wants to expand affordable care act as oppose to really addressing opportunity mentally the problems with it. >> governor, quick rebuttal. >> that's very important. so is taking on prescription drug costs and big pharma in order to address healthcare costs, something we have done at the state level when we realized that pharmacy companies were playing gimmicks in terms of charges for basic products. we sat down with our employees and found a way to lower those costs. one of my concerns and

difference between senator ayotte, she talks about changing the affordable health act but she vote today repeal the medicaid. >> to actually give state it is flexibility to design the program how they want to design it. higher deductibles, less choice, couldn't keep the plan that they liked and this is a crazy system and we have to address it and this is a big difference in the case. i will fight to address for more choice, more opportunity for people to have lower healthcare costs. >> i think both of you have been a part of my show. senator, next question is for you, before we leave this because we way not come back to this, some people may want to know where you're both at, for example, on american corporate tax rate.

there's been a lot of debate in that but it never seems -- nothing gets done in washington. is the american corporate tax rate, short answer, please, too high yes or no and where do you think it should be ballpark, what percentage, right now 35%. too high or not? >> too high for some corporations, other corporations get huge tax breaks, you have to take a comprehensive response. i'm proud of the fact that we cut corporate taxes in new hampshire and i will say i hope we can come back to one of senator ayotte's comments. >> too high? >> absolutely too high. we are in a position both for small businesses and large businesses. we have some of the highest taxes in the world and our jobs are going overseas. she talks about cutting business taxes, you want to talk about double, she vetoed the budget because of the business tax reduction -- >> i'm going to come back to some state-house stuff or issues

in a moment, before i get to the debt, one other quick question, you were talking about healthcare costs and some people may want to know this, medicaid expansion has been brought up a lot. you both can come back to this on your own. governor, i think you said 50,000 people in new hampshire of lower-income people get health care they -- >> hard-working, low-work income people. >> you take things like some of the public programs, the food stamp bet program, medicaid expansion, do you think in -- should we have any kind of work testing if someone can do some part time or full-time work to get them off some of the programs if they can or do you think that's unacceptable and that's just a quick question for both of you and we have to get on to the format? >> yes, i think that we should be able to encourage that and that's absolutely has capability

to design programs that are best going to serve the people that need help and give them the opportunity to have a god-paying job and a better quality of job. >> governor. >> let's just go back to one thing. the concern i had of what senator said when she said she voted to expand medicaid expansion, she vote today repeal it five times and the expansion says she will wait a year or two before she takes away health care from r50 thousand hard work ing. but let's talk about getting people off of public assistance. i have a gateway to work program proposal that right now is being blocked by republicans in the state legislature but i'm hoping that we will make progress on it and it would help people get into the workforce off of public assistance. >> you're not opposed? >> no. access to health care, transportation and child care are some of the major reasons

people don't get off public assistance and it's why medicaid expapción is so important and i've got story upon story of people that won't work because of help. >> can i move on? >> we can come together and address the issues of rising healthcare costs. we didn't hear whether she would support -- >> she said, do you in a year or two want to take the medicaid expansion? >> i want to address it to make sure i don't pull the rug from people to have it. >> okay. senator, next question is for you, governor, 90 seconds and 30 seconds but i'm allowing back and forth on substance which is refreshing for listeners. the debt, the national debt. it changes, it's going up. it's closer to 20 trillion than 19. is it a problem and specifically

i'm going to start with you, senator, tell me specific ways we could cut it? is it programs, would you cut a program? how can we cut the debt and is it a problem because you don't hear much about it in the national media. >> totally unacceptable as the mother for two children, for all of us every committee that i serve on i'm looking for ways to cut wasteful spending whether defense committee eliminating wasteful programs like a missile to no where, money that was flowing in our enemies' hands. i worked across the aisle with joe mansion on a bill duplicational elimination act so all of these reports that come out every year that talk about waste fraud, abuse duplication would actually require not only the president but the congress to vote on them and address them. on the budget committee, i helped craft the first balance budget in 15 years and also i

feel strongly that we do have to do things differently. i would like us to undertake tax reform because i think if we do that, we can have more revenue. if we make our businesses competitive that keep jobs here that help us address the debt and make our economy stronger as well and governor really has a record of proposing significant spending increases as governor and also tax increases on how she wants to pay for spending including when she was a state senator the llc tax on our small businesses that would be basically income tax on small businesses, you know, fees, car registration, camp sites, you name it, she wants to tax it. i don't think that we should be taxing her way to addressing the debt. >> is it a problem and if so how would you lower and you can address any other points in that. >> yes, it's a problem and i have a fiscal plan that your listeners can look up on our website that addresses reforming

our budget process. i support senator's shaheen's effort to reduce and eliminate wasteful spending. i would eliminate tobacco subsidies. we need to make data-driven decisions, something the government doesn't do very much to see if programs are working and we are getting good return on dollars. we have to strengthen and reform medicare and social security but we also have to make sure medicare and social security are there for the people who have paid into it and who have earned the benefits and this is a big difference between senator ayotte and myself. then we also have to make sure that we have the economic growth that allows us to continue to grow and continue to work on reducing our national debt. now, the last budget i proposed as governor -- >> and we will leave this debate briefly as the u.s. senate is

about to gavel in shortly for proforma session held twice a week in mid november. no legislative until then. whether he go back after the senate gavel is out the presiding officer: the senate will come to order. the clerk will read a communication to the senate. the clerk: washington, d.c., october 20, 2016. to the senate: under the provisions of rule 1, paragraph 3, of the standing rules of the senate, i hereby appoint the honorable roger f. wicker, a senator from the state of mississippi, to perform the duties of the chair. signed: orrin g. hatch, president pro tempore. the presiding officer: under the previous order, the senate stands adjourned until 10:30 a.m. on monday, october 24, 2016. adjourn: