we're not trying to knock down desegregation laws. we're really trying to defend, defend good laws. so any successful case will probably result from a challenge to an existing law, and any existing law is more likely to be upheld if it's narrowly tailored to a strong, to a localized record of, localized record of corruption. so those are the general principles that we're looking at and thinking about moving forward as we, as we anticipate the court's jurisprudence changing with this new justice. but again, that's distinct from what's happening on the ground. at best if we do achieve the new jurisprudence that we're hoping for, that's going to create an opening for new legislation. it's going to create an opening for new ballot initiatives. and that's where the importance of really having people and continually engaging with these issues and organized around these issues and motivated,

that's where it becomes so important. >> yeah. and just picking up on that, completely agree with what brendan has said. i think looking at the longer term, for us we see citizens united as really use withful tool to help spark activism and movements on the ground. but legally we kind of see it as the tip of the iceberg of what the court got wrong. so as early as buckley v. vallejo, the court has really put a lid on our ability to limit big money in politics. and we see what that looks like in the current system, you know, where wealthy candidates can spend as much money as they want on their own campaigns. wealthy individuals can spend as much as they can to elect their favorite candidates. they do so independently. and maybe more importantly, a lot of really awesome potential candidates never bother even running for office because

they're not taken seriously if they can't raise tons of money. so -- and this is all on top of corporate spending on elections which was unleashed by citizens united. so i think to us it's important that a new jurisprudence allows us to combat all of these problems and not confine us to sort of a clean government or anti-corruption lens. i think millennials see that the problems of racial and political and economic inequality are deeply connected, and and it's time for a court to interpret the constitution in a way that doesn't ban us from addressing these problems. and and that's pretty much what the current doctrine does. you know, especially -- and all the while affording huguetened privilege -- heightened privilege and protections to wealthy interests. so we're optimistic that, we're optimistic that things could get better on the court. >> great. anybody else want to weigh in?

big ideas or strategies with a new democracy jurisprudence? >> well, i think there'll be more opportunities for local organizing to challenging a ruling over time, and that's exciting. i think that's the kind of serious, in the trenches campaigns that maybe millennials are excited about. let's upend the order. let's do something that could actually lead to a challenge to citizens united. or buckley or another piece of this puzzle. i also think, though, we have a united states senate that does not respect the institution of court and the confirmation process. and so, you know, we're at a point in general where we've kind of held the congress in this trust that they would fulfill their duties to headache sure that the balance -- to make sure that the balance of power remains, that we have a fully staffed, i guess, court. that's probably not the right word for it. and they failed. and is there any punishment for that at all? i mean, the big money in this election is in the senate races,

and it's real out there. are millennials mobilizing for those senate races? i think so. there's probably a lot more we could do. but until there's political consequences for breaking our government, for breaking our courts, you know, it provides an incentive for them to continue -- those who don't think that the duty has a duty -- the nat has a duty to confirm, or at least have hearings and consider whoever the president nominates, what's to say that's not going to continue? and are we mobilized enough to really have a strong voice on that. >> okay, folks. it's time for some q&a. if you have a question, we have a microphone we can send around the room. and if you would, just tell us your name, and if you're here on behalf of an organization, tell us who you're representing. so floor is open to questions.

>> [inaudible] >> hi. i'm -- [inaudible] i was just thinking given that this election has exposed the that most of the republican base presents the donor class as well, does anybody have any ideas on congressional policy, maybe some or the sort of red/blue coalition in the upcoming congress, you know, with president clinton to take action on campaign finance reform? >> well, so one problem that i think that as you describe and as this election has really demonstrated and as polls demonstrate is that the republican voters care about this issue a great deal. it's republican politicians who block reform at every, at every turn. and you've seen with some of donald trump's messaging he

attacks hillary clinton as corrupt, he says she's beholden to her donors, but he has yet to put forward any actual policy suggestions that system he has, in many way, correctly diagnosed. it's a question of whether republican voters will hold their officials to account. i described earlier that there is a bipartisan sec reform bill that possibly with a different congress could have a chance of going somewhere. disclosure is something that is overwhelmingly supported by republican voters as well as democratic voters. that is something that the next congress could address. the question again is whether any republican officials will do what polls show that republican voters actually want. >> i think there has been a proposal in congress, i'm not sure it would move, but certainly at the local level

there's more room for motion, like in south dakota the ballot initiative there is actually a tax credit system for public financing which a lot of republicans feel really good about. i think, you know, there's some challenges with that in terms of people with lower incomes waiting until they get the tax credit back might impede their participation to some extent. but, you know, it's definitely ground zero for that question of whether we can really get some serious change on the ground with republican support. and that is -- both in south dakota and in washington state, the public financing proposals there are vouchers or credits, and they have significant republican support at the grassroots level pushing those. >> all right. next question. >> hi, aaron jordan, alliance for justice.

one thing i hadn't thought about, i think brendan head the point, is that basically to get united overturned, you need a case. but in this case we're not really worried about the laws on hand whether for gay marriage or civil rights. it was challenging bad laws. here we're trying to defend halfway decent ones. so why would a conservative advocacy group take a case to court when it's a lose-lose for them? so how would it get overturned? >> interesting. >> that's a great question. >> it's a good question. [laughter] i don't know. i mean, you've consistently seen conservative legal advocacy groups challenge campaign finance laws when they are enacted and even challenge campaign finance laws that have been on the books for a long time. so i think it's a question you'd have to ask to a group like ccp or center for competitive politics. but it is, it's a good question.

>> allie, any thoughts on that? pick your legal brain? >> yeah. it's a great question. i would echo everything that brendan said, and i think, hope that they just simply can't contain themselves. [laughter] >> it's not a unified structure. i mean, these folks aren't always working in such tight quarters. there isn't exactly an anti-democracy field having a comparable group like this somewhere down the street. [laughter] so that is -- >> republican anyway. [laughter] >> that's right. >> they wouldn't be filming, put it that way. anybody else? >> hi -- [inaudible] actually brief response to that comment. for true strategy, you could bring a challenge. one would be getting a small locality to pass a law that would be in conflict with that case and bring extensive action

if and when that was challenged, and that would create the opportunity. the other option -- [inaudible] tail your to act -- failure to act. and those who have actually brought this kind of action try to get the sec to change -- [inaudible] facing that barrier. but through that you can get a court to reconsider -- [inaudible] >> anybody want to sunday to that? so, i mean, i would say free speech more people is pursuing both of those avenues right now. we have a complaint pending at the sec that challenges the decision that created super pacs, and spoke folks in st. petersburg, florida, are leading an initiative that, if passed, could potentially take a shot at citizens united. okay. other questions? we have a few more minutes. >> [inaudible] people for the american way.

it's a wonderful panel. great to see you fellow millennials doing such great work. my question is in regards to engaging donors. it being the case that we've got billionaires like warren buffett and the facebook founders basically pledging to give the majority of their wealth away, what do you think it will talk for some of that money to go towards structural democracy reforms, you know, whether it be overturning citizens united or ending gerrymandering or any number of things that were talked about tonight given the fact that so many of the topical concerns of not just millennials, but the country in general can be traced to the influence of money in politics? >> i don't know if you can hear me without a microphone. i would say that the short answer is that it's going to take time to get folks this. one reason why this is so, it's

going to take some patience is because, unfortunately, a lot of the tech donors right now who are emerging and are going to far surpass the older money that's happened in the philanthropic landscape, they have not been engaged at the level that they should up until this point around these kinds of bedrock issues. and so there's a massive transfer of wealth from baby boomers going to millennials in the ballpark area of over a trillion dollars. and so now's the time to take the patient steps to cultivate real relationships with donors, system of whom might be inheriting wealth in this room that we don't know. and they're beginning to shape their world view. it's important to get them when they are in spaces like this as young folks. and it takes a lot of donor education. and there's a statistic on this around focusing on these donors

when they're young, and that is that "the new york times" and catalyst did a study that shows political events that happen at the age of 18 are three times as powerful as events that happen at the anal of 40. and -- at the age of 40. so if you want to change and fix this issue you're address, we have to start younger down the pipeline. there's a network called resource generation that's focused on that, on finding young, high net worth individuals and bringing them together. and then solidaire which does a lot of movement work, and they've been working with tech donors in the bay area trying to cultivate those relationships. so that's the one factor. the second one is a lot of direct action and continuing to change public sentiment. when occupy wall street got on the scene back in 2011 and people were saying 99% and 1%, that polarizing kind of action -- for better or worse depending on your perspective -- did draw a lot of young donors

to the side of the 99% where their moral conscious was touched through the heroic actions of the young people in those parks. and so i'd say it's a combination of both the donor education with a long-term kind of view of the relationships that need to be built there. and then secondly, sometimes it will take holding high net worth individual donors and corporations' feet to the fire about their relationship to our democracy. >> anybody else? thoughts on that? okay. we've got time for one more question if it's out there. any last minute, burning questions? okay. well, this has been a presentation of the american -- oh, we have one more? i'm sorry. go ahead. >> [inaudible] >> hi. tim schwartzman, potential

future student at g.w. i was curious with the lack of diversity on our federal benches, what role do you think that plays -- i know you touched on it earlier, but what role do you think that continues to play in our campaign finance laws, and do you think it's necessary for us to change the diversity of our bench in order to change the campaign finance laws? [inaudible conversations] >> yeah. it's a great question, and i think there is probably a degree to which they are intertwined or interrelated. certainly, the u.s. supreme court's decisions in cases like citizens united was entirely detached from reality. i don't believe that any of the current sitting justices were elected officials. they haven't gone through a campaign. they don't know how a campaign, really don't know how the

campaign finance system operates. their assumptions in that case and in cases like mccutcheon were entirely off base, and similarly to the degree to which the justices are unrepresentative of the country as a whole, there's going to be a lack of recognition about how their decisions impact the country as a whole. so i think the two are very much interrelated. anybody else? leave it at that. >> enough said. okay, folks. this is a product of the american constitution society, d.c. lawyer chapter. thank you all for coming out. could we have our board members put your hands up if you're in the room? folks these are chapter ambassadors. find them, engage them, buy them a drink at the bar. but thank all of you for coming and being here with us. thank you to gw for the space, thank you to c-span for providing coverage of it. you are all now free to sob

quietly in your presidents while watching the presidential debate. [laughter] thanks to our panel. [applause] >> if you guys didn't get food, there's plenty left in the room right over there. [inaudible conversations] >> this weekend on american history tv on c-span3, saturday evening just before seven eastern ohio state university's michael les benedict talks about the 1866 supreme court case where the court ruled it unconstitutional to try civilians in military courts while civilian courts are operating. ..

building on all of the lessons of social and cultural movement from this time period are developing the antiwar movement, the civil rights and black power movement, women's liberation movement, they are seeking best aspects of those in building on those. >> sunday evening at six on american artifacts we take a tour of the woodrow wilson house in washington d.c. with the executive director where the 28th president retired retired in 1921 and died three years later. >> he responded to that crisis by sending food aid to armenia. the armenian people were very

grateful and a group of armenian women during the united states were here in 1917, just after we declared war, and presented this painting to president wilson. >> at 8:00 p.m. >> you like ike, i like ike, everybody likes ike. >> neil oxman, president of the campaign group inc. talks about the history of presidential campaign ads beginning with dwight eisenhower's tv jingles. for our complete tv schedule go to cspan.org. >> a signature feature a book tv on c-span2 is our coverage of book festivals from around the country. saturday we are live at the festival in madison at 1130 eastern. it's the premier literary event in wisconsin giving the public

opportunity to meet public authors, here new books and have them signed. it includes book finalists, author of never nothing ever dies, vietnam in the manner memory of war. catherine kramer, author of the politics of resentment. for more information about the book festival and other events go to booktv.org. >> i went and researched the most recent events i've heard about in our news. i knew i could find information on that and that would also help me find out what points i wanted to say about it and how to form

my outline for my peace. >> i took a methodical approach to this research but i think that was really a piece of this. it's really just a process of reworking and working. as i was trying to come up with what my actual theme was, i was doing research at the same time in coming up with more ideas about what i could film and i came up with an idea and i thought okay that would be a great shot. i think about that and that gives me new ideas of something else to focus on and that give me something else to research. it was a process of scratching and rewriting until you have the final theme. >> what is the most urgent issue for the new president to address it in 2017. our competition competition is open to all middle school through high school students grades six through 12. students can work alone or in a group of three to produce a

5 - 7 minute documentary. the $100,000 in cash prizes will be awarded between 150 students. the grand prize of $5000 will go to the student or team with the best overall entry. this year's deadline is january 20, 2017. mark your calendars and help us spread the word to student filmmakers. for more information go to our website, student kim.com. >> this morning a number of international space policy analyst from government industry and academia will be discussing roles and strategies for ensuring the long-term safe and responsible use of outer space. we are having some technical issues that we need to iron out. as soon as we get that taken

care of, we will join not live on c-span2. in the meantime, in the washington senate race, patty murray and republican chris vance debate gun-control legislation and the minimum wage and they debate on sunday night and c-span will have that live at ten eastern. >> good evening everybody tonight's u.s. senate debate is hosted the washington state debate : addition and in collaboration with the university, washington state university spokane, community college of spokane and whitworth university. seattle city club founded the coalition this year to enhance the access to information, nonpartisan political debates. tonight's debate is made possible by the financial support of lead sponsors aarp and microsoft. supporting sponsors, the bill and melinda gates foundation and individual donors. the audience here can

participate in our debates using #w a el ex. here is patty murray and chris van. they been briefed on the rules and will begin with opening statements. patty won the opening toss backstage. >> thank you and thank you to the clement commission to putting this together and to the university for hosting and all of you here tonight and those of you listening in. it's great to be here. like most people, i get pretty frustrated with the dysfunctions and gridlock in washington d.c. i remember particularly one very bad year, 2013, no one could talk to anyone. everyone was fighting and we were facing fiscal clefts. a lot of uncertainty and automatic budget cuts that were coming down.

i came home to washington state and came here to spokane air force base and i went out to michael anderson school and talked to the teachers and parents and students who told me they were so worried that their students were going to be impacted in their education. i talked to civilian employees who were already being furloughed one day a week and were afraid they wouldn't be able to pay their rent or put food on the table. i talked to headstart parents who were being told their preschools would be shut down and i talked to business leaders who were telling me their customers overseas were beginning to think that our country couldn't function. when our government shutdown, i went to work back in d.c. with paul ryan, congressman paul ryan, we come from very very different perspectives and don't agree on a lot but we did agree that we needed to return respect to our nation and work together to bring our country to move

forward again. we worked very hard and put together a budget agreement. it did not solve every problem but it certainly brought us some certainty. we were able to restore the investments that i heard about here in spokane that people were so worried about and across the state and we got our country moving again. i was born and raised in the state and all my brothers and sisters grew up and my parents instilled in me, from a very a very young age, the work ethic of washington state. you go to work, you work hard, you do not whine or complain, and you keep persevering until you get the job done. i come home every weekend and talk to people in the state and hear their concerns, about making sure their kids can afford to go to college, they can can afford to live in their neighborhood.

if there is a senior that we have security for social security and medicare. they worked hard all their life and they want to know what's there for them. both of the stories along with that work ethic that i take back to d.c. every monday morning wi-fi back and go to work to make sure the policies and investments this country make work for our state. finally, like everyone, i am appalled by the behavior of this election and we need to return respect to our dialogue. i hope we can be respectful tonight even as we disagree and show by example that it can be done. >> thank you and thank you to the coalition and the university and senator, i am looking forward to a terrific respectful discussion. we are all in a good mood tonight after that seahawks victory, i hope, i am. i have been lucky to live in our beautiful state my entire life. my wife and i met in college at

western washington university. we've been married for 28 years and blessed with two great kids who are behind me in the first row. our daughter natalie is a cougar, our son is a husky. i have been proud to represent our community as a member of the washington state house of representatives, the king county council and the statewide leader of my party. now i'm running for the u.s. senate because perhaps like you, i'm fed up with washington d.c. america faces real challenges. it demands real solutions. our economy is stagnant and our national security is threatened. social security and medicare are going broke. we are nearly $20 trillion in debt. now our political system is melted down. congress is a gridlocked dysfunctional mass that can't solve any problems. our two great political candidates support -- you can

see how i feel about issues and i imagine we will talk in depth about issues tonight. washington d.c. is broken, severely broken. with all due respect they talk about washington d.c. as if she's never been there, as if this isn't anything she's had to do with. the truth is after 22 years in the senate, patty murray as part of the problem. whoever is elected president, we need new independent leadership in the senate. people who will work to be republicans and democrats together to solve our nations problems. this election is about a lot of things, but really it's about one thing. it's time for a big change and i look forward to talking to you about that tonight. >> thank you mr. vance. our first question. >> senator murray you support a higher minimum wage of $12. hour.

many small business owners say that would cut employment, reduce access to entry-level positions that lead to better jobs and increase the unemployment rate. how can you reassure small business they cannot only survive if this measure passes but thrive. >> absolutely, thank you for asking about that because i hear from so many people in our state that the economy has come back from the great recession but they still don't feel like they are part of it. they are worried that they do not earn enough money to put food on the table, certainly not to send their kids to college or to feel that they are strong again. the minimum wage is a really important policy that assures you are going to work every day and earning enough not to live in poverty. i talked to one woman a while

back who had three young kids, a single mom earning minimum wage and she said, i want so badly to go to college so i can get a better job, but i can't afford to do it. i can. i can barely afford to feed my kids. we are better than that in this country. if establishing a minimum wage, and i have written a few things, i would like to be at $12 by 2020 so you can have that open promise to get ahead in our country. for small businesses, my dad had a small business when i grew up and i know how important it is that they can be competitive with everybody up and down their street and around their communities. if we have a floor that everyone agrees to, that means everyone can pay their employees a wage and be competitive. it is very important that we recognize that people in this country will be strong when they

feel strong. >> mr. vance a university of washington study found that a higher minimum wage could have a negative effect on regions where the local economy is not as strong as seattle. what is your position and how do you think small businesses will fare if it passes? >> i oppose 1433 for all the reasons you mentioned, but really what matters is the federal minimum wage. that is what we would have control over. tuesday night, my wife and i volunteer for a homeless shelter for homeless women and i see the pain that's been inflicted by this economy. people are hurting out there. there just aren't enough good middle-class jobs and that's what's causing a lot of the pain and homelessness we are seeing. i understand the desire to rid raise the minimum wage to try to fix everything. the federal minimum wage is too low. it is $7.25, but raising it to

$12 across the country will destroy 700,000 jobs. when you make it more expensive to hire people, fewer people get hired. raising raising the minimum wage too far, too fast will hurt the people we are trying to help. instead, we need to grow our economy by bringing down the debt, having a better program for infrastructure, reforming our tax code. i want to grow the economy. i think senator murray wants to grow the government. >> thank you. >> let's go to christie with our first audience question. >> i have ryan berkey. you have a question for mr. vance. >> yes, mr. vance, 63% of americans don't have enough savings to cover a $500 emergency. what would you would you do to help people who are feeling pinched. >> that's a great question. other than physical threats to our national security, the fact that our economy is not growing

fast enough to create good middle-class jobs is the problem of this generation. we have had ten consecutive years of less than 3% growth. that has never happened in american history and the result is people are living on the margins and living paycheck to paycheck and turning to opioids and losing hope. there is only one hope for this. we have to grow the economy. we have to implement smart policy for economic growth and bring down our debt. we need to promote international trade. we need a better program for for infrastructure in this country to put people to work, but none of these things are going to

happen unless republicans and democrats can work together in congress. right now in terms of everything i just mentioned, they are not. the gridlock is preventing us from doing the things we know we need to do to grow our economy and help people who need help. >> thank you. senator murray, you said you would like to help the economy grow from the middle out, not the top down. how would you do this in your next term? >> again, if i go around the state and talked to people, the insecurity that they still feel today as we recover from the great recession of 2008 is that they still don't feel that it's been there for them. there are some people who are doing really well but there's a lot of people who can't earn enough, who don't have the right kind of skills for today's economy and need the investments we can make to help grow this economy. it starts by making our middle class strong again. minimum wage that we just talked about, making sure people have paid sick leave so you don't lose your pay if you're sick and you have a steady income. making sure that we invest in education and retraining for our workers so they have the skills they need today. our transportation system to

make sure that it's effective for today. those kind of investments in our economy that make our middle class grow is how we will make sure our country is strong for everyone. we can, i strongly believe, eliminate some of the tax loopholes that benefit the wealthiest americans in the biggest corporations and use those resources to invest in our middle class. that's how we grow our economy in the way that everyone benefits. >> thank you. >> i want to focus on the top employer here in our region, the air force base. they say the defense department is wasting money on excess facilities in each congress and they need to step in and close them. a senior pentagon official is urging lawmakers to consider a new round of the political unpopular base, realignment and closure process. what will you do to make sure those critical jobs in the rich and is protected.

>> absolutely. fairchild air force base is essential to our military infrastructure in this country. it is critical to our shift to asia, we have to have an air force base here that can make sure we are protected here as americans. it is a critical base in our work to make sure we can project our air force around the globe. i have been very proud to fight for the investment at fairchild to make sure it is strong and ready, not just for today but for tomorrow. i will fight for this community which i just have to say, it is amazingly great. you support your base, you make sure you are there, civilian support our military and that kind of bringing together our community, business leaders, education leaders, the civilians who work there and their families, that's how we survived

in the past with the infrastructure that we have continued to build and grow, i know that mission is sustainable for the future. should we have a brak again, you need to know, i will stand with you every step of the way to make sure we protect that base. >> what would you do to protect fairchild air force base. >> when you are a senator from a large western state, you have to have a lot of responsibilities like the spirit i can imagine if you're a senator from new hampshire or delaware, there's not a lot going on at the federal government. one of the things we have to have as a senator who will fight for the unique needs of washington state. nobody should fight to defend bases that don't make any sense. we are $20 trillion in debt. we can't waste money on military bases that make no sense. but, everyone i have talked to said that fairchild and its refueling mission is still vital for our national defense in our

bases here at the northern end and near the pacific coast and near asia are critical. i will fight hard as senator murray has to defend the air force base. one of things we have to do is have the courage to stand up and talk to the governor and others that the activities going on near fairchild may be the things that are putting it in danger. if you want to defend fairchild we might have to say no to some of the things that are being built near the runway that is putting the mission in danger. >> thank you. the next question is for you as well. lots of people in eastern washington will tell you, how we vote out here doesn't seem to matter. it's always the voters in western washington that the site or statewide. what do you believe eastern washington concerns are and how would you address that? >> you are talking to a chairman of the washington state republican party.

i understand that frustration. i live in king county, for those round around the state, i apologize for that, but having been republican chairman, i have been all over the state. sometimes i've spent more time in eastern washington then in western washington. people people in eastern washington have the same concerns that all washington people have. they want to make sure this economy is strong and that their security is protected. let me name too. i'm proud to be endorsed by the farm bureau. i will stand up and fight for the farmers and ranchers. agriculture is a huge component to washington state. the second thing, the federal government made a mess of hanford and they need to clean it up. everyone agrees with that. i will fight for the funding and against the politicians in the nevada.

i will fight for eastern washington. i think eastern washington would do well with the republican state senate. >> thank you. >> my grandfather actually came in 1916 where my dad was raised and i know this area very well could my dad and his family grew up there. in fact, they were there when the hanford nuclear reservation was established. i grew up sharing his stories about what that community gave to our country in order to win a war and my father was a world war ii veteran so they gave a lot. the wsu grad, very proudly, and i'm very excited about the educational investments that have occurred here in eastern washington to help make sure that this economy is strong, right here in spokane, the

campus that is now making sure that we have doctors and nurses who are able to work in rural communities, making sure we do the agricultural investments that help the economy grow. i'm very excited about the wine industry that is now become an essential part of washington state and eastern washington. we have a lot of agriculture here and a part of my responsibility that i'm proud of is making sure we have research dollars at the institutions so we can be able to sell our crops in a global market. i'm proud of the investments we are making here in this region in aerospace and manufacturing. i proudly represent all four corners and i'm very proud of my heritage. >> thank you, our next question goes to chris. >> we have marshall with the question as senator murray. >> patty murray, in your reelection bid you claim that you not only read the affordable

care act but you also helped write it. obamacare, passed along partisan lines are more expensive than expected and is losing money across any state in the country. what role did you take in drafting the legislation and what responsibility do you feel toward washing washington who is now paying higher premium for less coverage. >> i am very excited that tomorrow, here in spokane, the teaching health center that was part of the aca is going to open up and that is the facility that will now train medical professionals right here to help deal with the shortage that we have in many of our rural communities. that was part of the goal of the aca, to make sure we had enough physicians. that helps lower the cost for everyone. i distinctly remember debating the aca, coming here to spokane and holding a roundtable, hearing from people who were

denied healthcare coverage because of a pre-existing condition. they cannot buy insurance. i had one woman come in and she put the stack of paper that tall in front of me and she said, i thought i had good insurance until i got cancer. all of the sudden, i had to to fight with my insurance company every day to pay for my medical coverage and she said the stack of papers is my correspondence, just trying to get them to cover what i thought i had. women were denied existing conditions, young people couldn't get access. the aca has solved a number of problems and we have more people covered today. is it perfect? absolutely not. i am so frustrated that all republicans have said, since it was past, let's repeal it. i'm willing to work with anyone from any party to say what are the challenges today and how can we fix it.

by the way, one of the biggest challenges is that in some communities the insurance companies have dropped coverage. that is why i supported public option so we can lower those rates and have the opportunity for everyone to get the healthcare coverage they deserve. >> thank you senator. mr. vance, you said the problem with the affordable care act is that it creates a one-size-fits-all, top-down approach providing insurance for many americans who lack coverage but for other americans it isn't working. would you work to repeal it, and do you think the republican party would be able to agree on a viable alternative without jeopardizing coverage for the millions of americans who are covered on the or the affordable care act. >> does many things she said that i agree with and one of those is that my party has not been responsible in offering an

attorney to have two obamacare. my family lived through-untran health care crises. my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer three years ago. she is great today, they caught it early, but the point is we had great insurance and she got great care and caught the cancer before it was able to spread and it turned out okay. i can't imagine living without health care coverage. we have a problem in this country. there is a big segment of american society who did not have healthcare coverage for. congress needed to do something, but instead of working together, they passed a bill that's entirely partisan and it was doomed to fail. it is falling apart. that's a fact. something has to be done to fix obamacare. the problem is they support the public option that is allowing more people to become dependent on government coverage. that will mean more control i the government.

i think we can do better. i think for those who need help, we can have a targeted solution for those who need help modeled on the washington state basic health plan which would allow people to purchase private sector coverage with a small subsidy from the government. i think that is something that has worked very well. it would be a way to get coverage to those who need it without. [inaudible] people can keep what they had or don't have any more. >> thank you. >> we now go to a special panelist, president of the student body association. >> this question comes online. many students are completing their degrees within six years of enrollment. how can we improve college completion so they aren't taking on unnecessary debt and are able

to get their degrees? >> that's a great question but i live this every day. i have two of them sitting over here to the left. i make a payment every month on my son's loan and he makes a payment too. i'll be doing the same for my daughter pretty soon. i understand that that problem. and needs to be driven at the state level, not the federal level. i am reluctant to start stepping in and telling colleges and universities how to run their institutions. we do have a problem out there. one solution is to allow students to refinance their loans. you can refinance your auto loan and your home loan then you should be able to refinance your duty loans at a lower rate. the problem is being driven by state legislatures cutting back on funding for higher education. thankfully, here in washington state, they have gone the other direction. they put they put more money

into higher education so my daughter's tuition check is actually lower now. the real answer to this is in olympia, not washington d.c. i am concerned that there's a lot of politicians out there, including senator murray and hillary clinton and bernie sanders who are promising people like free college or debt-free college for $20 trillion in debt now. we cannot afford more federal spending. if we are going to raise taxes as they have proposed to maybe bring down college cost, the taxes need to be used to bring down the debt first. the reason why our debt continues to mount and mount is more more politicians make more more promises and then just pay for those promises by borrowing money and printing money. it can't continue. >> senator murray, your response >> thank you. >> back when i was young, my father was diagnosed with multiples for larosa's and lost his job. fortunately, my country was there for me. through pell grants and student loans and government programs, i

was able to graduate. ask as were my six brothers and sisters. i believe we have a responsibility to make sure students are able to go to college and be supported and don't have to work three or four or five jobs while they are in college and graduate late as you talked about it i talk to too many young people today in middle school you've decided already they are not going to go to college because of the expense. i've talked to too many students in college who are working three or four jobs talk to way too many people who are trying to payback student loans. i think we should expand our pell grant program so more people qualify, i believe we should be able to refinance student loans. right now you cannot refinance your student loans. i'm proud to support that legislation with elizabeth warren.

i was so sad that the republicans tried to filibuster and we lost by just a few votes. i am going to keep trying until we get that done. yes, if if you are having a really good conversation in this country about how we can allow students to go to community colleges tuition free, i think that's an important conversation to have and i will tell you, there are some loopholes that we can close to help reinvest in people so they can get their college degree. we need them to get those degrees for the jobs of today. >> thank you. now back to christie with another audience member. >> i have a question for senator murray from tim abby. >> i am 63 years old. for at least 50 of those years i have been been hearing about the need to strengthen social security. why has congress failed to do this and what are you planning to do to protect social security? >> thank you very much because i absolutely believe that social security and medicare are the cornerstone of making sure that people who work hard all their

lives have that security when they retire and they will have an income that will keep them out of poverty. we need to strengthen social security so it works for future generations. i actually believe that we should raise the cap so we can reinvest in social security and in ways that work for today's families. too many women today do not reach full capacity because they are in and out of the workforce. they don't pay in enough. we need to look at our workforce policy today and how they impact social security and expand it. i believe we can raise the cap and do that. in fact i have introduced legislation and am working on it. i do not believe we should raise the age of retirement for social security or medicare and i do not believe that we should reduce payment for senior citizens on social security through the so-called cpi that is often proposed. we need to expand social security, strengthen it, make it

work for tomorrow and i am willing to work with anyone who will work with us to get that done. >> thank you senator. mr. vance, the republican party is calling for comprehensive reform to perpetuate social security reform. do they differ from the party platform, and if so, how? >> one of the things i have said throughout the campaign, if you listen carefully, you might find my message is very different from those in my party. this is a critical issue. this defines the difference in senator murray and i. we are never going to bring our debt down and stabilize social security and medicare if republicans are locked in a position of just making cuts. the democrats are in the position, as you just heard of just raising taxes. i am a strong believer in the approach that was developed by president obama's bipartisan bipartisan commission in 2010 that included republicans and democrats, business and labor,

the simpson bowles commission which recommended we need to do all of these things. yes we need to raise the income tax on social security so the wealthiest americans contribute a bit more, but that will not be enough. we cannot fix it with just tax increases. it's not physically or politically possible. we have to do things that they recommended that included responsible democrats to slightly gradually rage raise the retirement age and tax nondiscretionary spending. if we don't do these things, social security is going to be broke and less less than 15 years. the politicians in washington d.c. have done nothing about it and they will do nothing about it as long as republicans stay locked into their talking points and democrats stay locked into their talking points. i will take positions that a lot of other members of my party won't take to seek of an

agreement where both sides give a little bit. if we don't, we will face a situation where we are dramatically cutting benefits for current retirees or increasing taxes or we keep borrowing and printing money and borrowing from china. i'm in favor of a grand bargain that includes all of these solutions. >> thank you. >> mr. vance, the national debt has grown, as you mention to a staggering $20 staggering $20 trillion. that's almost $61000 for each american. all of us. it is such a serious problem that former chair of the joint chiefs of staff staff said that the national that debt is the single biggest threat to our national security. what is your plan to reduce the deficit and how do you convince your critics that lower taxes which you support is the right direction. >> if there's any one factor that led me to run for this office, it's the crisis i've seen over the past several years

as our debt has gone up and up in the republicans and democrats in congress have done nothing about it. in fact they've worked together to raise the debt. last year republicans and democrats together passed a budget agreement that raised our debt by a trillion dollars. all they been willing to do his past budgets such as the budget that senator murray is so proud of that did not solve any problems can did not bring the debt down and just kicked the can forward. i have been very specific about this. i support approach that involves spending cuts and structural changes to our entitlement programs that we all know that's what needs to happen. every grown-up understands that's what needs to happen. this generation of politicians doesn't have the guts to do it because they're so afraid of making their basic angry. democrats are afraid of their liberal base and nothing gets done. as long as we keep reelecting the same people to office year after year, nothing will get

done. on taxes, i support comprehensive reform which will close loopholes and lower rates for everyone. this will actually give the middle-class a tax cut and force the rich and the corporations to pay more their fair share. then unlike senator murray, i believe that money needs to bring down the debt, not for new spending. this is a problem we have to get serious about dealing with and electing and reelecting the same people is not going to help clean it up. >> when you ran for office back in 1992 you said the national debt was one of your top priorities yet it has increased by more than 15 trillion. what is your plan to reduce the deficits. >> that's a really important question and i think we need to step back and remember what happened. throughout the '90s we began to really deal with our debt and

we started having surpluses but then in 2000, congress passed two major tax decreases that benefited the wealthy and major corporations and did not pay for it. this country, under president bush voted to go to war in iraq. i oppose that war and voted no but that was done without paying for it including all the costs of taking care of the men and women when they came home. here we are with the debt. i opposed all three of those and chris was republican party chair at the time and supported them. you can't pass policy and not pay for them. then we have the economic collapse in 2008 and we are

still working our way out of it. the answer to your question is important. do no harm to our economy and put us back in a place where people have their jobs and their pensions. invest in them, be wise, yes we need to do a fair and balanced approach of cutting programs and having every american contribute, not those those who are working. i am happy to work with anyone as we continue to address that problem. >> here is a question for both of you. >> what is the appropriate number of syrian refugees we should be letting into the country. do we have betting standards for

ensuring national security? and if not, how should they be changed? >> thank you very much for asking that question. it is a really important one. as we know, syria is in a very war-torn time right now and people are fleeing a horrific, we are talking women and children who are fleeing and trying to get away from the terrorist who are attacking them in the middle of the civil war. we are a country that has never turned our backs on people who are asking for help. syrian refugees and those camps are suffering horrendously and i believe it's a country, we need to stand up with our global partners and do our part. it's important to know that those syrian refugees go through an intense amount of security before they ever come here to the united states. two plus years going through a lot of background and work to make sure that we are safe bringing them here. i think we can accept people and help them come here and assimilate and contribute back

and i know they will be very proud citizens when they get here. >> your response. >> this is a gut wrenching issue. everyone's instinct is to become compassionate and help those in need and i supported what the president was doing in terms of bringing syrian refugees to the united states until the attack in paris and we found that at least one of the attackers had posed as a refugee to then get into france and commit that attack and then, i've said this before that, the director of the fbi testified before congress that the fbi and homeland security cannot adequately that these refugees. everyone talks about this tremendous job we do a vetting these refugees and they go through years and months of vetting but our own director of the fbi said we cannot adequately that these refugees. my position is simple. i want to admit refugees once the fbi will let us know they can adequately vet them to keep us safe.

let's talk about syria for just a moment. that whole mess over there is an example of what happens when the united states advocates its responsibility to help lead. when the americans don't like the idea of the u.s. being the world's policeman but we have allowed syria to fall apart and it is destabilizing the middle east and causing instability throughout europe. we have got to work with our coalition partners to settle the syrian civil war and stop the refugee crisis at its source. >> thank you. >> now back over to shawn. >> in 2014, democrats and, democrats and republicans changed the uniform code of military justice by dripping vendors of their ability to overtime during convictions. this was done to address the egregious record of sexual assault suffered by women in the military. has the military done enough to police and punish discriminatory use of women's holder. >> apparently not.

everything we are hearing is that it continues and it's unacceptable. that is unacceptable for us as americans. i don't like the idea of politicians telling the military how to run the military. when you are talking about violating people's civil rights in the sexual assault and sexual harassment of women, that is when congress does need to step in. i think congress needs to look at this very carefully. women are serving proudly and valuably in our military, our military is becoming more more diverse and it makes me uncomfortable for politicians to try to come in and tell the military how to do things, but in in this case, these are our wives and daughters and sisters, and we have to make sure they are protected and treated in a way they should be treated. >> senator murray, different question to you. women veterans often need to be

outsourced because they cannot address women's care like mammograms in house. we often can't have providers of the same. what do you plan to propose to fix these issues. >> thank you for asking that question. i have talked to so many women who have served incredibly honorably in conflicts around the globe, and we have a responsibility when anyone serves our country to be there with more than words and be there with what they need. the fastest-growing group and the va is women. i am proud to make sure we now provide va facilities to have a women's clinic. too often i have to tell you, women veterans don't seek va

care. they don't see themselves, as a veteran they don't identify themselves as a veteran. i am working hard to ensure they get the services they need. this goes back to a question that you asked my opponent and that is, the issue of sexual harassment in the military. there are too many people who do not come forward and tell their experience because they have to report to their commander. we have to recognize that many women veterans suffer from military sexual trauma and we need to make sure rva is prepared to receive them in our military commanders from the top down continue to let this be known within their ranks, it is not acceptable behavior.

>> thank you senator. this next question is for you as well. and junior joined a filibuster to demand action on gun safety. you cited fresh frustration on being blocked from doing anything to stop gun violence. since then we've seen more tragic gun fatalities in washington. we vote for or against the gun control measure that's on the ballot and second, if there still is a divide congress after the selection, what would you do to create a different outcome on this issue? >> i will vote for the initiative on the ballot. it is just so important to me that moms worry that they will get a text message from their school that there has been a lockdown or that you can't go to a nightclub without worrying or to a mall. this country has to step up and deal with the issue of domestic violence. it's so sad to me that so many cities today are not identified by some historic place but are identified by gun violence.

we have them across our state. if we cannot stand up and deal with the issue of gun violence, we have not done our job as leaders in this country. yes, i was proud to stand with senate democrats all night long until we got republicans to let us vote on a bill that, at the very least says, if you are on a terrorist watchlist that you cannot buy a gun. we were blocked by republicans and i voted for strong legislation. we have not gotten it passed yet. we need ground checks without loopholes to make sure that criminals and domestic abusers can purchase a gun.

we need to stand up and say we can balance the second amendment to the constitution with the right for americans to feel safe in their country. >> thank you. mr. vance, you stated you believe the ban on semi a automatic weapons would be unconstitutional. what limits, if any should be placed on the purchase and use of semi automatic weapons? >> this is a great question. we are all glorified by gun violence when it occurs and we need to do more to keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have them. i can't support banning weapons that are currently legal and are used lawfully by citizens all across our state and country for self protection, for hunting, for, for target shooting as a sport. let's make sure we understand. automatic weapons, machine guns are illegal and have been for some time. i can't support banning the types of rifles that so many people in washington state own.

what we do need to do is improve our background check system. right now, if you're going to buy a gun from a licensed licensed gun dealer, and most people do, you have to go through a background check. so many states don't provide complete records to the fbi. congress could fix that tomorrow by passing legislation to states to require that information. we saw grandstanding in washington d.c. when republicans and democrats couldn't come together. they were competing proposals about how to deal with guns and neither sides would compromise. they have citizens in filibusters and they all congratulated themselves for how courageous they were and nothing got done. republicans and democrats need to work together to find a compromise on guns just like they do on every other issue. it's just not happening right now. reelecting the same people who can't get this job done now makes no sense. that is legislation that can actually pass. a ban on raffles is not going to pass. >> thank you.

>> washington is one of the most trade -dependent state in the united states. do you support the transpacific partnership trade deal to lower barriers to trade among its partners. >> i do. one of the things that has concerned me the most is that parties are turning against trade and i just think it's economic suicide and misinformation about our various trade deals. let's be clear, being opposed to trade will destroy washington's economy. wherever i go, washington's employers and manufacturers are dependent on exporting their product. these agreements are good for washington state. the tpp will eliminate, not just lower but eliminate 18,000 different taxes on american products.

it will lower the taxes on washington we and salmon by 30%. it will make it more competitive, creating american jobs, especially here in washington state. this is one of the reasons why i can't support hillary clinton. she used to support trade. she used to support the tpp but now, under pressure from her liberal base, she is opposing it. senator murray now says she might not vote pretty pp. i just think this is crazy. trade deals are good for washington state, they are good for the american economy. we need to stop the misinformation and support trade agreements to create american jobs. >> thank you. senator murray, have you made up your mind whether you will support the tpp. >> here in washington state, trade is very important to our economy. what we grow, what we make, what, what we manufacture has to be sold in markets across the world. we need fair rules as we try to sell our products overseas and

we need to make sure they are strong and there is enforcement and we do protect the values of washington state. when i get a trade agreement, i have evaluated based on is it good for washington state's workers and our economy and our environment. cannot be enforced enforced and is it a strong agreement for all of us. at this point the republican leaders in the senate and house have said they are not going to send the teeth pp to us. if they do, those are the values and priorities that i will assess it on. by the way, they are trying to talk about changes, so for any of us to say were going to take a vote on it without having read it is not doing what we should do our homework on. i come home, i listen to my constituents and i will evaluate it and make sure that it works

well for the state of washington one of the issues that is extremely important to us here are those enforcement provisions. it's not just the trade agreement, it's making sure that the federal government has the money to make sure we have enforcement officers so it does work as intended. that is how i will evaluate that , when it is sent to us. >> thank you. the next question is for you as well. in 2014 and 2015, the washington lost more than a million acres in catastrophic wild fires. much of that was while forest land. experts say that is not being managed properly or at adequate levels to prevent the wildfires put to often states have to use money set aside for prevention to fight the massive wildfires. what would you do in congress to better fund and prevent these measures. >> that is an important country for our state because we have been devastated by wildfires and people have lost their homes, a lot of our land has been devastated by this and we need to make sure that we are

protecting people and have the resources should these wildfires hit us. that has become more more difficult as the federal government has cut budgets. i am working with a number of other senators to fix this so that we have the funds available when these fires occur. i worked with him number of the communities that were impacted. they are usually rural communities and our laws are covering the assistance that many of the homeowners get and it just doesn't work in a rural community. i have introduced legislation and am working to change the dynamic so that people in rural communities can get the support they need. >> same question to you. >> the answer is, simply, simply, we need to put more money into prevention. everyone says that's what needs

to be done. these communities have been making this case for a very long time. why has it taken these catastrophic fires to get senator murray to take action on this. we need to have senators in washington d.c. who will focus on the entire state, including on the needs of areas. they have been making the case loud and clear, we need to have the funds available for prevention, we need to manage these lands, reduce the amounts of fuel on the ground that will spark these wildfires and they do not feel their representatives are listening to them. it took a few really terrible fires to get this changed. again, i look look forward to working closely with congressman wright furred and newhouse and mcmorris to better pay attention to the needs of eastern washington, not just after a

crisis. >> it is time for closing statements. senator murray, we will start with you. >> thank you this has been a great discussion. i want to thank our moderators and everyone here and chris for joining us. you heard some things we agree on, congress doesn't work as well is we wanted to, you you heard some of the things we disagree on. i believe we can grow our economy by investing in our economy. people ask me, why do you do this. it's so angry out there. it's such a divisive time. if i was coming over here, there was an honor flight about to be taken off with about 50 veterans and i stopped and i thanked them for their service. a 100-year-old veteran who served in world war ii, i said thank you for your service and he said no, thank you for your service, keep fighting. that's why i do what what i do for people like that veteran. was a veteran here in spokane,

and airmen severely injured, so severe that he can have children. the va denied his ability to get access to fertility treatment. i want to work with sean and other veterans like him who lost their ability to fulfill their dream of having a party. we have fought for years and i am proud to say that two weeks ago, we passed legislation that was signed into law so that sean and other veterans can have that dream. that's why i do what i do so i can fight for issues big and small, for people here and veterans and make sure that i work respectfully, and i hope we can all raise the level of respect. that is what our service members and veterans expect, it certainly what we can do as a country. >> thank you. mr. vance.

they have no idea how to fix this other than to blame the other party for everything that is going on. we can fix this but we can't continue to accept politics as usual and excuses. this election must bring change and reelecting the same people year after year, decade after decade will not change anything. if you want change you've got to vote for change. i'll be a different kind of senator.

i will work every day to change the culture in washington, d.c. to bring republicans and democrats together to solve the biggest problems. i will be an independent voice and never anyone's rubberstamped. i would be a hundred to have your vote. thank you and good evening. >> please join me in thanking our candidates tonight. [applause] >> also want to say thank you to our debate host, washington state university, spokane, eastern washington, community colleges of spokane and wentworth. thanks to seattle city club and our sponsors. on behalf of all of us here including the washington state building, thank you and have a good night. [applause]

>> [inaudible conversations] >> road to the white house coverage later today us donald trump campaigned in pennsylvania holding a rally in the southwestern part of the state. by recent state and national polls gathered by real clear politics have hillary clinton leading by over five points in the state. the rally is live at 4 p.m. eastern on c-span. hillary clinton is in cleveland holding a rally in cuyahoga community college in a state where most polls show a tight. live coverage at 4:30 p.m. eastern on c-span2. in the ohio senate race incumbent rob portman and former democratic governor ted

strickland debated last night. recent polls show senator portman with over a 15-point lead. >> the issues that matter to you. ohio's race to the senate. >> i've anchor at news five in

cleveland. welcome to the final senate debate between rob portman and ted strickland. this debate is sponsored by the city club of cleveland which drafted tonight's format, the rules have been agreed to by the campaign. media partners. we welcome those watching on abc stations as well as a tune in on your public television station. and, of course, to those in our studio audience. >> the debate is divided into two segments, each 30 minutes alone. in the first half we will ask the candidates questions and the second has the candidates will respond to questions from the audience. want of those questions will come from twitter but if you would like to submit a question use the hashtag city club. candidates will have 90 seconds to respond to each question and

a candidate original asked each question will have an additional 30 seconds for rebuttal. the questions have not been shared with the campaigned here the audience in a student has agreed to remain silent so we can focus on what the candidates are saying. however, we welcome you as we welcome the candidates. rob portman and ted strickland. [applause] >> we are not going of opening remarks. candidates remind you a check to ministry opening statements. it was determined by a coin flip and agreed to by both candidates

and would begin with senator portman. >> thanks to much. thanks to the city club and it's good to be back in cleveland. first the cavaliers and now the indians. you with a real contrast tonight between the two of us. i've been an independent voice for ohio. working across the aisle with republicans and democrats to deliver real results for ohio families and workers. i'm proud 45 of my bills have been signed into law. what is a very important issue, it's the hair with a prescription drug epidemic that has torn families apart and devastated communities including cleveland. my coverage of addiction and recovery act will begin to turn the tide. i'm running for sean to go and that today at a woman's shelter in cleveland who is a brave mama and a heroin addict, recovering addict who needs help. i'm running for the many workers in ohio who are feeling the middle-class squeeze. i've taken the lead on things like worker retraining, showing infrastructure projects can get off the ground and issuing of a

level playing field for auto workers. that includes legislation that we passed that is helping workers, hire workers, steel workers to begin to fight back against unfair influence from country like china. i'm fighting for the soviet new workers right here in cleveland, ohio, who have a new job because of our legislation. i'm proud of the fact that been endorsed by every major city newspaper in ohio. the cleveland plain dealer and said i've reached across the aisle and worked with republicans and democrats to achieve results for cleveland. they said they didn't think ted strickland could be effective in the u.s. senate. i think they are right. he was not effective as a congressman, as governor, 4,350,000 jobs were lost. 48 in the country in job creation. 90,000 jobs lost in cleveland. when the voters turned him out of office, do you know what he said?

he blamed cleveland. he said cleveland's biggest enemy is cleveland. i think cleveland's biggest inning his policies. we cannot afford to go back to his ohio can thank you very much. now governor strickland, two minutes for your opening remarks. strickland: it's great to be in the city of champions. i grew up in a family that a lot of struggle that we survived because we loved and we cared for each other. we lost our first time to a flood, our second two hard times, and when i was about five our third home burned to the ground. dad was a steel worker. my mom raised nine kids and i was the first in my family to go to college. i learned at a very early age that one bad break can lead to real hardship. that's what i've spent my life as a minister, psychologist, a congressman and as your governor fighting for working people, and that's who i will fight for in the senate.

intended there's the rob portman story. it's a story of wealth, power and privilege. a man who pretends to be nonpartisan, but he's always there when mitch mcconnell and the washington power brokers need him. in fact, he is spending his time and our tax dollars fighting president obama every step of the way. he said the auto rescue was a lousy deal for ohio. he's voted to keep us from curbing gun violence. and this man has always opposed president obama. let me say, he's voted against president obama 92% of the time. 92% of the time. even stood with donald trump after donald trump said that the president was not a citizen. so when you hear independence and bipartisanship, just remember this, he is the great

pretender. >> moderator: thank you very much, governor strickland. we'll start our first question with you tonight. i'm addressing this to you. this has been an unusual election with a survey of millennials by the university of massachusetts finding the rather have a lottery determined the winner than to vote for either hillary clinton or donald trump. and quinnipiac poll released this week found most voters feel neither cut nor clinton is said to be president. in light of these polls, how do you rationalize supporting the party's candidate for president? strickland: there are big differences between hillary clinton and donald trump. i can assure you of that. donald trump is unfit to be president. he spent years saying that president obama was not a citizen. he has mocked disabled people. he has made fun of prisoners of war and gold star families and

so on. he's called women pigs, and worse. we know that donald trump is not fit to be president. hillary clinton, on the other hand, has great experience. she's been a first lady, a senator, our secretary of state. and she is answers to our problems. secretary clinton, working with barack obama and bernie sanders, they have come up with an education plan, just as an example. this education plan says if you make less than $125,000 a year, your child into to a public college or university tuition free. that includes about 80% of the people in the state of ohio. think of that. parents not having to worry about whether or not the kid can go to college. senator portman will not support that kind of approach because he's not taken the right kind of attitude towards ohio students.

he opposes allowing ohio students to refinance their student debt at a lower interest rate. he has tried to get millions out of pell grants. windy city choose between ohio students and the banks, he chooses the banks. tonight we'll have to stop right there. senator portman, we know it took you a while to withdraw your support from the republican nominee donald trump but i would like to get your take on the fact that millennials, 18-34, isn't it a fact that's a sad commentary that age group sees the candidate as neither one being that to be president? portland: i do think it's sad. i do think that it would be nice if they could look up to the presidential candidate. i do think that in this campaign we have seen some things said and done that has discouraged them. i have stood up as you said and i have consistently stood up when i felt something was said that was wrong.

my opponent hasn't done that by the way. i believe that words matter, so much i took the extraordinary step not to build support for republican nominee for president. win hillary clinton called half of donald trump supported deplorable, said they were irredeemable, said they were racist, ted strickland didn't stand up and he hasn't today. words matter. this is a camping we can ted strickland and me. it's not a presidential campaign although you will hear my opponent continued talk about the presidential campaign. it will -- this is what he said during this campaign, he's the one who is used the word rape in an offensive way. , to connect rape to charter schools. he's the one who has said when justice antonin scalia died that it was the cost to celebrate. and he did so for political purposes. he celebrated the death of

antonin scalia. he's the one who came here and ended up fortune cookies offending agent americans and never apologize. he said cleveland's, your worst enemy is result as opposed to taking responsibility. >> moderator: governor strickland, 30 seconds. strickland: my opponent can't just been -- can defend donald trump all he wants but the fact is he stood with and by donald trump after donald trump spent years saying that barack obama was not a citizen. he stood by donald trump when he called women pigs and worse. he stood by donald trump when he mocked a disabled person. and it wasn't until it was india's political calculation to try to disassociate himself that at the last minute shortly before this election he said i can't vote for donald trump. >> moderator: mr. portman, senator portman, my first question is to you. your colleague senator john mccain promised republicans

would be united against any supreme court nominee that hillary clinton would put forward if she were elected. has offices backed off issuing a statement and said he would thoroughly examine the record of any supreme court nominee. it's been said the senate has the constitutional obligation to provide advice and consent on the supreme court nominee. suncor scholars are saying there's nothing that requires a hearing. regardless of who is elected we pushed for a ferrying process for a nominee to the court or will you join and block a nominee? portland: a fair hearing process, absolutely. i believe that's what i've done. there are many of barack obama's nominees who i that were not qualified for the court and couldn't support but many i did support. including his appointments to executive offices as well as to the corporate i look at each of the mayors and the soviet to be. i don't agree we should automatically block nominees. we should be working together to figure out how to solve problems

and figure out ensure we get the best people to serve on the court for lifetime of what the, find the best people to serve in the executive branch. we should work together. ensure we get buy-in from republicans and democrats alike. when the democrats to like this and they took away the 60-vote margin and to get the 50 votes because they didn't want any republican input. i disagree with a lot of my colleagues as you know. i think we should look at justices on the mayors. i will look at justices as to whether they are faithful to the constitution, whether they're going to legislate from the bench which it opened as a role of the judge's and whether qualifications and background are. that's what all of us to do. >> moderator: governor strickland a chance to respond than six mr. portman claims that is independent and bipartisan but he wasn't bipartisan when it came to guns your tivo against an amendment or a bill that would allow, disallow suspected terrorists from buying guns.

he was a bipartisan when it came to the bipartisan bill on immigration. perhaps the most egregious action is taken has been against judge garland. i'm going to read about the words that he just uttered. he said i don't agree that we should automatically block a nominee. for months he has blocked judge garland. he said this man should not have a hearing or get a vote. joest disrespected the president, and his failed to carry out his constitutional obligation. he has not done his job for months, and we have a for four split, and he hasn't answered, me, he needs to give us an answer. senator, every newspaper in the state has criticized you for this. and yet you refuse to allow the president's nominee to get a hearing and a vote.

you've got some answering to do to the people of ohio. you're not answering, not acting in a bipartisan manner. you're acting in a very hyper partisan bandwidth comes to the supreme court. as we can claim to be independent. he can claim to be bipartisan at all and is a very serious issue he has not been bipartisan. portland: i did answer your question. unlike other strickland who did not answer it. and look, i voted for barack obama's nominee when i thought they were qualified. that's the record. it's a clear record, 45 of the bills that are wrote have become law. this means barack obama signed of those bills. by definition they were bipartisan. get through the senate, house and signed into law. washington is a dysfunctional place these days. one reason i'm running for re- election as a blade we need people in washington who know how to do that because it's unfortunate something you see less and less in washington. we need to figure out how to

work together as republicans and democrats to solve big problems. i'm conservative, proud of that. >> moderator: governor strickland, there's no denying the growing problem of drugs across the country and also here in the state of ohio. in our state alone last year an average of eight people a day die from overdoses. many lead to opioids like heroin and fit now. the epidemic is taking a toll on communities that are struggling to cope with emergency call for overdoses as well as handle the number of addicts needing treatment. is this issue that should be handled at the committee level or is there a role for the federal government? portland: there is a role for the federal government and you're right in describing the problem. strickland: it is a scourge. and people are dying needlessly. in part because we don't have adequate treatment available for people who are seeking treatment. i know something about this. i just lost a very close

relative the oxycontin overdose a few months ago. was a sad and tragic event. a beautiful young man who should not have died. but the fact is that i was aware of this when i was governor and i started the prescription drug task force was governor. because so many of these addictions begin as a prescription use, and people get addicted and the no longer have the prescription or it's too costly so they go to the streets and divide heroin and other substitutes. communities need help. and i applaud my opponent for calling attention to this issue, but he has voted against the very resources that communities like cleveland need to fight this scourge. the omnibus bill, he voted against. but i'm not surprised because there were 14 of the things in that on this bill that he took credit for. and he voted against.

so senator portman is good about describing the problem an easy thing good about showing personal concern, but he won't bite the bullet and provide the resources. he lets other senators cast the vote, carry the water and then he takes credit. >> moderator: where should the white lie? is it the community weight they should be carried by community leaders, or should the government, the federal government step in and do something? portland: i taken a lead in washington on this because i believe the federal government does have a role to play. it's an epidemic. we spent emergency money on ebola or the zika virus. this isn't epidemic, and emergency. that's what i pushed hard over the last few years with the conference addiction and recovery act, brought in experts, including from ohio. a woman lost her daughter to a heroin overdose and she has now taken her loss and constructively channeled into trying to help, including

healthy right this legislation. she testified before the judiciary committee to try to be sherwood boehlert legislation that would help in terms of prevention and education treatment and recovery t giuntao visit the women's shelter meeting with women who are recovering addicts. they need help. they need it now. cleveland lost about one person per day last year to air when a prescription drug overdoses. this year we are on track to lose maybe as many as two people a day. we may see a doubling and more people being lost not just your hair when but fentanyl, synthetic hair when and this one the legislation is important to get implement it. i just $37 million into the short-term budget between now and december 9. there were no other major exceptions to that legislation except mine. why? because i was able to convince my colleagues this is an emergency but governor strickland is talking politics. what i'm talking a is how to solve this problem and address it in a way that uses best practices from all around the country and that's what the

conference of prescription recovery act will do. strickland: i'm not talking about politics. i'm talking about his record. december of last year in the omnibus bill there was money in there to provide communities like cleveland resources to fight this scourge. he voted against it. thingy is spent months traveling around ohio telling people how concerned he is and how much he's done. he didn't have the courage to actually cast a vote. he lets other senators cast the vote and think he is taking credit for what others have done. he did not carry the water. other senators had to carry the water for them. >> moderator: we have to move on. last november you called for a halt to the result of sin refugees into the united states. u.s. defense and videos governments ability to properly check th the backgrounds. he also called the persecution of christian and other minority religious groups in middle east genocide and called on the u.s.

to do more to protect the. while most polls show americans are opposed to just accepting more syrian refugees, the pictures are hunky. such as the want of young boy in the back of it and goes covered in blood and dust. what role if any do you think the u.s. should play with regard to the people of syria? portland: i think we're to let -- sadly, there are over 20,000 people being killed by their own government. 4 million people or more have now fled the country as refugees. many have stated year to be resettled of others have gone to europe, over a million. some have come here. my response to the question of bringing additional syrian refugees was because before the homeland security committee, the director of the fbi said we cannot figure out who these people are, what their intentions are because we have no information on the because we don't have contact with this unit government or people on the ground to determine that. that is not a good thing to do. instead what i've called for,

since my first day of senate, used to say let's create in syria a safe zone, and no-fly zone where they can stay in their own country. winkies refugees have been interviewed and asked would you rather go to europe, united states, where? they simply want to stay home. and yet the united states continues to draw red lines to say we will do this in syria to help, stop the chemical weapons, provide some sort of a safe something that we don't honor them. you see this in aleppo tonight. as we talk here tonight the russians and the forces of assad our bombing civilians. he's been dumping his barrel bombs on his buddies over the past several years killed over 200,000 of his own people and the united states has not led. we leave them behind which is what you bomb a position on. >> and that's exactly been done. it's what ted strickland support andy schleck to tragic consequences of.

strickland: first of all let me say that we've lost a great american just recently in the fighting is taking place near mosul. we not remember that. only 1% of the american people protect the 99% of us, and we ought to honor our men and women who serve us never forget their sacrifice for us. syria is a very complex problem. to be honest with you i think much of what we are experiencing in syria in that part of the world today is a direct result of the fact that we went into iraq some 14, 15 years ago. but what's happening in syria is tragic. rush is complicating it. there are so many factions in the series and come edges let me say that i believe our first obligation is to keep americans safe, and that's my intention. there are some things we can do. we can increase our use of air power. we can increase our use of

drones. we can increase our intelligence gathering. but i'll tell you one thing that i will never support and that's ground troops being reintroduced into that part of the world. we cannot solve every problem. this war has gone on in that part of the work for some 15 years and i think americans are sick of the war and they understand that there's some things we can do. interest of the refugees i believe we need to honor our values and we need to bring in those are properly vetted it takes about a two-year period of time to the syrian refugees. portland: again, my concern with the way we've gone about the same situation is a much broader one which is america's role in the world has been diminished under this president and with the support of my opponent. when he moved to washington, d.c. to become a lobbyist for this group called senator for american progress, he took on these positions that america withdraw its strong leadership role around the world

to you see the consequences. a void has occurred. look at what happened with russia, what happened in crimea was have in the south china sea with regard to china building military bases it was happening sat in syria and iraq, 20 people losing their life. america's pull back. china and russia has taken our place. >> governor strickland of look at the issue of criminal justice reform we see police brutality and the shooting of citizens have been in headlines across the country and ohio is not immune. in cleveland the police department isn't limited i consent decree with the justice department but the problems extend far beyond the police and into the court were according to politifact minorities are more likely to be overcharged or face harsher sentences than white defendants. what specific measures intended to take to address the systemic problems within our judicial system at the local level? >> we got a problem.

we need basic, deal with it. too many young men of color are losing their lives in america. the statistics don't lie. it's happening. my judgment to tamir rice should be alive today. man who is in store holding a toy gun that wal-mart sold should be alive. so what should we do? we need to recognize that black lives do in fact matter. and that there is a disproportionate number of deaths occurring among the community of african-americans and other people of color. and i believe our government at every level as the responsibly to acknowledge it and to work to stop it. we've got to come together but we can't solve the problem and as we recognize it and admit it. and then come together and work to solve it. so there is a federal role and i'm glad the federal government

is getting involved in many of these situations. one of the things we should do is what senator portman has proposed to do. he has authored and introduced a national stop and frisk bill. that's not the approach we need. we need to pull communities together, not use issues that drive them apart. by the first thing we need to do basic knowledge the problem, and then commit ourselves to finding solutions to the problem that i'm senator portman. portland: you asked about criminal justice reform and some of the deeper problems. there is legislation as you may know in the senate. cory booker's legislation is bipartisan to reform some of our criminal justice systems, some of the disparate outcomes that have occurred. i've in support of that, a cosponsor i've also taken the lead in washington over the years on this issue of ensuring the people are coming out of prison have the opportunity to

their lives back on track. it's good for everybody. it's good for them achieving their god given purpose in life. it's good for the community. it's good for the taxpayer to construct a more than half of those people are in a revolving door. they're back into the prison system. i am the author of what's called a second chance act to give people the opportunity get the job skills they need come together drug treatment they become to get the mental health help they need. to go to get a job and become productive citizens. there's some good examples of that in northeast ohio. northeast ohio has taken full advantage of the second chance act. over to mentors has gone into grants just in the last few years. tonight in the audience is brandon. he runs and wins, an incredible stronger if the rest of but it's much more than that. everybody works their personas come out of the prison system come returning citizens and a lot of them to tough time.

he teaches in the skill of a six-month which is colin is to also out of work, how to show up on time, how to apply for a job. displacement raised -- displacement rate is about 95%. >> moderator: we will ask the audience to refrain from applause. governor strickland, 30 seconds. strickland: i work in a maximum-security is a procedures. i've seen the result that is broken. we are sending too many people to jail for too long a period of time. when they get out they are in a situation where they can't earn a living because of their records. we need to change things fundamentally. >> moderator: my final question is to you, senator portman. you are on record calling for the repeal of the affordable care act, also known as obamacare. you cosponsored a bill with her senate colleague and former republican presidential candidate ted cruz that would defund obamacare at the aca has

some components that americans have said they liked. like. do you still obamacare should be repealed? if so, with what specifically will you replace it? portland: i've never sent repealed without replace because i think of to replace the. i don't think the health care system was in good shape the forfeit it is in worse shape now. the liberal democratic governor of minnesota said the affordable tractract is anything but affordable. this is just in the last week. bill clinton just that it's crazy, it's not working for middle-class families. ted strickland supports it strongly. he said it's wonderful. he said obamacare is something we should celebrate. and 91% increase, the average increase for families in ohio, the individual market. that's a $200 a month increase. think about that. think of the small businesses that are struggling to provide health care because of the costs have skyrocketed. these exchanges are not working

in many counties, 30% america was only one insurance company. no competition. this is not working for ohio families. a woman named joanne bracelet vote say i've got health care but i don't have health care because now my deductible is so high it's like i don't even have health care because it's $6000 out of pocket before anything kicks in. this is not working for anybody. it has to be replaced. i think both candidates, ted strickland and rob portman know that. we have to kno note that the its not working for ohio. we have to replace it with something that is patient-centered, gets more competition and, gives people more choice, keeps some of the good parts of the affordable care act. the best part i think is that preexisting conditions. if you of a preexisting condition you cannot be denied health cover. strickland: i celebrate the fact that over 800,000 ohioans have insurance coverage through obamacare i celebrate that.

senator, i suppose it's easy for someone like you who gets subsidized government subsidized health care to talk in such a cavalier casual manner about people who, before obamacare, had no access to health care. it's not a perfect bill but it's a good bill. it's one that we opted fix, improve, but we are two key. what the senator is suggesting, if you repeal it you about inches companies once again to charge women more than men for health care. you about insurance companies to see if ever preexisting condition, we are not going to ensure you. that's a big problem. we need to improve it. we can do that, but the senator has voted to repeal it. i've never seen any kind of replacement as part of any vote he's ever cast. so it's a good thing. i am so proud of governor john kasich for having the wisdom to

expand medicare coverage, only possible because of obamacare. you couldn't expand medicare coverage without obamacare. i am very excited about the fact that we are moving toward a time in america where fewer people have to worry about whether or not their kids have access to care, whether not they will have care if they have a preexisting condition. it's were obamacare. a big difference between the two of us. portland: again i just can't believe that governor strickland continues to support obama to the others have looked at it and realized this is not working. absolutely you can cover people with medicaid without having the affordable care act. three quarters of the people is talk about to get coverage is medicaid. it's not the exchanges. we just found out in ohio that would be a 13% increase in people in exchanges next year. one year, 13%. no one can afford that. i talk about the middle-class squeeze, even with the biggest expenses most families do not?

of care. >> moderator: we want to remind you that you are tuned to ohio count race for the sake of a debate between rob portman and ted strickland. we are coming to you live from the studio theatre here at the ideas center in cleveland, ohi ohio,. >> we are now going to transition to the second part of our debate will be take questions from the audience. these questions was about what i its members and guided by the city club and immediate partners to avoid duplication the they have not been shared with the candidates. if you're follow us on twitter tonight we will be taking one question via twitter at hashtag city club. hashtag city club so you can tweak your question right now

will go to our first audience question. welcome. >> good evening. my question is on foreign policy. with isis currently -- what each of you see as potential solutions to help with a long-term dismantling of fundamentalist teachings that led to the creation of isis? strickland: thank you for that question. as i said earlier, syria is a very complicated, complex problem. there are factions in syria, multiple factions, religious and national factions. russia is complicating this situation certainly. the first thing we should do, and i'm glad that looks as if we're moving into mosul, and we will rid isis of iraq and ineffective territory they may hold. so then let to focus on syria were isis will make the final holdout i believe.

we've got to work with our partners in the area. we can't expect them to do more. we can't expect saudi arabia and others to help us more than they are helping us to we've got to continue to use our airpower effectively. i support the use of drones to take the isis leadership. but the final solution cannot be one that america imposes. we have been at war for going on 15 years in that part of the world. we have sacrificed our wealth, and the blood of our sons and daughters. and so the last thing we should do is involve ourselves in another ground war over there. we need to improve intelligence. we need to share intelligence. we need to expect more out of our partners. we need to stand up to russia, and sorry. iran at a time that i think your

question was about isis and i see. i think were not enough. three things much more effectively. one is going to do and where they are. i think the fact that we've pulled back in terms of a role in syria has given isis more breathing room. i think we develop aggressive in terms of using u.s. airpower against isis both in iraq and in syria. they have now spread to 20 other countries. it's not going to be effective just to do that. we've got to do better job protecting our own country to allow for that are expected to go back home. there was a warning yesterday, the day before yesterday by the european security officials saying that as mosul falls, which i believe it will simply, a lot of for fighters welcome back to your. a lot of those european countries have a visa waiver program with us what they think about to the trade also without going through the normal procedure you would have to go for a visa. there are also foreign fighters from the tiny. we don't know exactly how many, probably in the hundreds. we need to do a better job of screening is coming back.

third come up with this is the most important aspect of this, we need to do much better job of dealing with homegrown terrorism. including those who are isis and specific think san bernardino, think of the tragedy which occurred in orlando. this i think is the most difficult and perhaps the most important part, not one i think we need to work better with a muslim immunity in this country. better cooperation. working together to solve this problem. because the vast mentored and muslims in this country want to solve this problem. there has been only one example in ohio and it was the first one in the country of a foreign fighter who came back and was arrested or terrorist charges. try not to have to cut you off. your time is up. we've got to give governor strickland 30 seconds to respond. strickland: i met with some muslim citizens recently. i heard tragic stories of how they feel as a result of what

donald trump and some of his supporters are saying and doing. i talked to two sisters who said they went to the mosque to pray. and one of them said we were wonder whether not we both should be there because if something happened to us, it would be no one left to care for our 92 year-old mother. that's a tragic situation that results from people like donald trump and their language. portland: we now go back to the audience for another question. welcome. >> good evening. my question is about climate change which is a real and present threat to the people in ohio. public health agencies are preparing for more heat related deaths and new insect-borne diseases come water for such agencies are expecting damage from or an intense rain storms and flooding. experts are concerned about water level in our great lake erie. and increased smog during heat waves as