>> and. >> that involves the understanding something that in the business school recall organizational capacity. if the federal government is the piece of the government for is it capable or up to the job that you are asking to do?

[inaudible conversations] and. >> good evening can you hear me in the back? no? we will fix that. thank you for your participation good evening thanks for joining us today. i am one of the booksellers and stats that the store and i am very happy to have you all here tonight with our talk. we have the busy schedule defense year round we depend on your enthusiasm and presence to keep these going

if you bite to know more about them feel free to take the events calendar real also find susan's book enjoy in the weekly e-mail list ehrlich's up on east that comeback casebook -- look us up on face book. tonight we welcome off-season and her new book eleanor and head. she was raised and educated in ohio a fellow midwesterners here. [applause] she meant road for a periodical mitt magazine in new york times magazine and boston magazine. reporting on the dangerous

cargo that was award winning . writing books about marie curie as those in special theater project which is about the process t11 tells the story of a reporter kent first lady eleanor roosevelt. with get into a relationship impossible romance make them a weird icon in history for decades. so guided by a buffet called relentlessly captivating. they did like giving out complement so this was dragged from them for what they could not put down. we're so lucky tonight

please join me to welcome one susan quinn. [applause] >> i am pleased to be speaking here it is such an important place in my life i feel a lot of sorts i just will again and look at the staff recommendations and the new books get recharged up. when that out late of last the chain bookstore down the street. [applause] if felt like a personal triumph for:. so i'll tell you went into the riding of "eleanor and hick" but this had more than most 2008 i published a book about the federal theater project with the roosevelt

administration. and thought i would like to continue. and then harry hopkins probably the most important person in the new deal. just enormously important figure. and to write a lengthy link the proposal i spend one and year on it nicely packaged and photographed and well-written laugh laugh both agents thought it was a sure thing. i need to take a moment to introduce you to two important characters in the story. one of them is my agent, agent, joe. but much more than agent, ed jill is a friend a friend

and a critic and support so with this very important to me in this process. we thought it was a sure thing than the other person is my husband. [laughter] he is right there probably the reason you are all here he really pushed me to send out save the date was. [laughter] he is my biggest cheerleader and critic. ross also a whole lot of friends that are listed in the back of the book many of them have heard parts of the story. march 2011 the proposal goes out we could not sell its they were very flattering rejections and they were right.

to big, too unfocused it is like when they talk about tennis players pushing it over the net debt wasn't actually engaged. one so i got very depressed for quite a while i thought my writing life was over i would never find another subject i'm not sure how it would come together but there was a story connected to hopkins that was more compact and compelling it had to do with the woman named lorena hickok who had a relationship with eleanor roosevelt there was even a book in 1980 about this. in the changing over 3,000

letters most teenage he gave to the library in hyde park when she died 1968. and lorena hickok had the nickname hick to everybody and said they could be opened 10 years after death. but doris first saw the letters and she was horrified. she tried to get them locked up again but then decided to write about the relationship. so when the book came out when she lamented turning those letters over was the crime to turning over poems to medieval christian theologians. [laughter]

>> it was the opportunity to revisit to change time. and what you can connect to. and all lead books with one exception has been about strong in remarkable women with the psychoanalyst's the tissue with for '08 and sexuality. and even a theater book look is on the strong woman. there was another reason even though it was floating around times had changed this was a story that could be embraced. they loved and empower each other. it helps that i have a daughter and nine who is

clear i say gay she says clear. she actually prefers so because of her have a more tender subject of love between women. i knew it from the moment it came to me i realized it. so i set out to write another proposal 50 pages which took off several months after these ambitious proposals will they help you to solidify your ideas and they help you to sell up book. april 2012 it went out to 20 publishers the response was not all positive the editor large said it feels like a slice of the eleanor market but not sure how big not

sure we can give significant attention to the lovely reusable modoc receive. [laughter] killing me with kindness. my heart would not be in this. >> and amazing thing to read this for a puzzle to know without any doubt, each more exceptional the book will be. july 2012 i was in contact with penguin press to and a half years later when the book was done after the bidding war. i was pleased so i had a date on december 8, 2014 i looked at my calendar is said lunch at eastern standard.

so a triumphant lunch. so that did not turn out the way i expected. i thought was done but i wasn't she thought it was stephan will everytime i see quotation marks a feel you are pushing me away. i was calling her e.r. like fdr is to inhibited it is not like the proposal not nearly as good as the proposal than that really hurt. [laughter] so i was devastated and it happened to be a snowstorm that day so i walked home in the snow it was coming down and the tears were coming down at the same time i felt

annoyed and angry and all those things. by the time i got home was beginning to see what she meant. er particularly i realized why was i using that? because it had to much reverence for her i was talking about hick on one hand and er on the other with the relationship with two people if she was er she had to be eleanor. even hick did not call her eleanor. pdf everybody called her mrs. r even her husband called her babs. that had to be my story. she had to be eleanor. when i figure that out so there were months of free riding i was determined to

finish it before we went on vacation spring of 2014 but was not finished and my husband was still suggesting ways to make it better. that was also knowing what negative and knowing. [laughter] and meanwhile this'll is happens to me and other writers it is called being orphaned and it is not a good. if it means the book is turned over to a young editor who is usually described as brilliant but usually is not. [laughter] so i became convinced the book was in trouble and was not going to get published at also limited desperate call to agent and then midnight spanish time.

and that was in tears. what is happening with the book and she was taken aback . she had no idea. there is a reason to be concerned. september 2016 take advantage of the hillary clinton run for president. she gave me complete confidence in turn nomination. and a new young editor cunningham takeover. and appeared to night. you did well. [applause] she actually was brilliant. she brought quite a bit more rewrites but she was right to mushy suggested sometimes we needed to explain more

clearly or to address the uncomfortable truth about one of my two heroines' facing up to things. she did the best job anybody has ever done on a book of mine. that is my happy ending. so now i will read a short passage from the book i have to give a little bit of background. >> briefly in 1932 lorena hickok was and, to cover all roosevelt for the first run of the presidency and she did after words. but then the relationship began to shift trusting her more and more and then she

started to fall in love with eleanor and eleanor with her. by the time fdr was inaugurated hick knew so much in a cell in love with eleanor she could not continue as the ap reporter she was one of the few women at the top of the latter in that ap because it was a male dominated world the she went to the top and succeeded. she was under pressure from her boss about the roosevelt secrets and the roosevelts had a lot of secrets. more and more she felt loyal and could not do with the '94 the inauguration she was with eleanor and fdr was in the next room with his son polishing up the speech and she says the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. fastening - - passing into

eleanor who read it to hick she realized at that moment she could drop a nickel and tough phone to give the story of her life she did not do with. had him instead she slept with eleanor in the hotel room that night seven became increasingly clear she could not do the job anymore but she went to work pending went out on the road and also long letters to eleanor. wonder about the the details and then the hick report. 1933 they went off on a vacation together in the summer and eleanor's buick in managed not to be noticed

very much a was a lovely time. they wanted to do the same the summer 1934 in california planning to meet out there to go on a private to work together. that is all you need to know except she did not know how to drive that first but she learned she was dekalb car bluette it was totaled in a very serious accident but hick was not injured. now she had a cheaper plan if which figures in the story. chapter nine. getting away with that. hickey one negative hick and eleanor exchanging letters for months over their trip the quiet in seclusion and

beautiful places. but when hick walked into the lobby where they were to meet she encountered a swarm of reporters and photographers clamoring for story about eleanor. thanks in part to hick eleanor was now the darling of the press celebrated for her energy and the ability to turn up here or there or everywhere. because hick had a plan. molestation would pick up that the sacramento airport explaining the first lady needed to freshen up before any interviews. en that sanders to the situation. and be announced to reporters hick had arranged for a state trooper to dry purred newly acquired convertible to the we are entrance to wait for the two of them to emerge.

they took different elevator up then another elevator down. and then they jumped into start-ups with the trooper at the wheel. the secret service that eleanor usually treated as the enemy holdout by changing the hick license plates for the california once but it was no use. they did not even get out of the city before they realized they were followed. another one swung around and hick was worried and bluette had not even then broken in and did they were going at higher speeds. eleanor finally called a halt to the chase. what stop thinking the trooper to send him on his way. we will have to find another way out of this business

quebec. the reporters have one main question eleanor would refuse to answer this is my vacation of would be treated as any in their tourist. she proper lifting from the back seat and said she would sit there all day before should tell the marshy was going. they all agreed to retreat to a restaurant mrs. franklin roosevelt was trying to lose herself and get away from being the president's life. and then she lived very happily they remained friends but something like a marriage or partnership

might 10 possible but hick relationship with eleanor could never be that. even when eleanor dared to leave fdr to live openly with the woman she could not diver herself to just one other person should always be tied natalie to her husband but to the bonds of duty and friendship with many others. this was the realization and then fall into love with her . it made their time alone especially precious. and doing a lot of resting and feeding the also mentioned in passing on negative in passing to take a camping trip in the mountains now hick discovered there was an elaborate plan to explore yosemite on horseback to a camp in the high sierras above sea level.

how could you do this to me hick protested? you will manager replied casually. hick had no experience writing of course, or was not in shape for a trip she gained weight and she smoked too much. lady i get hungry. she worried about hick smoking and eating and she even decided to cut down on cigarettes and wanted to lose weight because of diabetes. and once threw her into the water content to advocate and going for hardship to bitter toil. no doubt that would do hick

good. as long as they could be together hick was content. she was only embarrass and amused. so when the two of them come upon the chipmunk then noticed to point their cameras at the we are end. hick exploded and shouted profanities. the two women left in a hurry with eleanor trying to quiet her. the same pattern over the vacation. said even like the cable car ride.

but the peace was followed by the shock of their return to hotel lobby with flashing cameras and reporters. over and over the private moments were interrupted. and with the hotel restaurant and then oregon with a spectacular view of the snowcapped mountains. emerging another crowded lobby pact with curious townspeople eleanor silently handed hick the keys she knew by now should behave badly a underserved and circumstances. and then to deal with the crowd she arrived at half hour later skimming the door behind her. franklin was right he said would never get away with it and can for now on i will travel as a president's wife and try to do what is expected of me. when they got back to

portland or eleanor was scheduled to meet the ship of fdr the sitting room was filled with flowers were filled with the first lady's admirers. more than they had ever seen in one place. in represented the future of what they had hoped for was impossible. and looking at that extravagant display and then dictated berkeley's daily gazette and then to catch that gangster if i had the charge of the denver case i

would call off the police to send reporters after him laugh laugh laugh. [applause] >> i especially love that because she rarely made a joke. [laughter] >> so no discussions? >> did eleanor have a previous history of same-sex relationships greg. >> note issue was surrounded by a lesbian couples that were closest friends and she did develop that little cottage industry but in a lot of relationships of whom love women it is so

interesting that so many that are involved in democratic politics are activists. and then to be all around her. and then sent to a school in the woman who ran that was lesbian and had a partner and there was that atmosphere there so there are things around. in some ways she had to marry with underclass and that was narrow for her this was freeing for her.

>> i have one question i have not read your book so i cannot comment but if you think of their relationship to be similar to my fair lady, ironically eleanor roosevelt was the one that was developing hick but she influenced her to know that hick was henry higgins and eleanor was more wealthy was too little. >> that is a very interesting analogy. with that comparison to my fair lady of henry higgins and the protegee.

as she helped eleanor at a very difficult time as eleanor did not want to be first lady and hick knew about the press with deal women press conferences from their letters and exchanges and then to realize before too long it could be a column that was my day and i introduced her to the white better world -- wider world the first lady of the world. >> so definitely hick was not a very good writer

should never became a great writer of eleanor have to say. >> bad joke i discover that online. >> i probably cannot come up with a specific one now been accounted how many times they traveled to the fbi library in hyde park it was 22 times each i may say about one week so i read all

of the 3,000 letters. that is a totality of understanding of the relationship from doing that. >> >> and then to throw them into a the fire. >> and swayed to explicit. and then to have posthumous stay from revealing the letters that hick understood they were a treasure so what

was the relationship between fdr and eleanor? >> very complicated. as you know, she discovered he had an affair with secretary in 1918 that was lucy. after that the relationship was a partnership because the romance was gone. and she set about creating a separate life that was so hard for her to be a mom negative to leave new york to become first lady. fdr had a number of flirtatious sexual

relationships with women he like to have women around him who would adore him or laugh at his jokes and shared his cocktail hour or the children's hour. fishy was not that person. and that was interesting new book. as excepting hick and oliver relationships because they got him off the hook. and he liked some of her gay friends a lot. and then to call it to their love nest. you just have to make some leaps.

and then to talk about this not publicly. >> in the united states? did people no? senate beloved eleanor and they loved hick as press conferences were her idea so with men got jobs. said is protected hick sometimes she was described as a news hawk or to manage and that is as far as it goes. and the roosevelt had children obviously eleanor was a mother. how did the relationship to

the relationship with hick how did they relate? >> eleanor was a mother with five children how and then the main confidante may wear pretty much a heartache from when she was closest but among the five children there were 17 divorces. and this started to happen in the white house. one of the first secrets that hick knew that and of one -- t6 was having an affair on the side with a journalist.

her sun had just married with a newborn and laugh within six months. the mother and baby stayed at the white house berger everybody stayed at the white house including hick had their room they're almost the entire 14 years of the roosevelt presidency. >> could you say something about franklin's mother? [laughter] if you say something about franklin's mother, to spend her life in triangles. to the family of origin. she adored his father but he was absent after the mother died to say i was not sure

if i was the mother or he was the father or the brother. and to be confused about that. but also the first allegiance to say i real mother she would set limits that whenever she did sarah would undermine them one way or another. eleanor had a lot of rage toward her mother that came out a lot in the letters to hick. hick was a safe person she could talk about these things. >> could you talk more about writing the book?

and where it got difficult with the emotional journey. >> about the right-wing of the book and my emotional journey? >> not sure i have an answer to that. when i hesitate called to decide that she was eleanor i didn't have to use quotations all the time that i could paraphrase was important i could make it my own to move that narrative for word and that that was the drive and what needed. one of the things that happened when you write a book about eleanor roosevelt is that half the world meant eleanor roosevelt, the

people have met them themselves? so they are these things another, i'd better, in to write about a paragon and she was medicine but she had her flaws. some of them ended up 13 hick some ways so i had to love them both. that was getting in the way. >>

>> after fdr died did eleanor and hick live together? >> no. what happened by the time fdr died, the relationship was a longer passionate. the passionate part lasted six years then hick threw tremendous difficulty managed to except the fact she would not be number one which was her dream and could not go off with eleanor to have a private relationship with all of these people in her life sought that point she was in love with a young man who was a radical and then another person so there was a lot of people but hick said she was one of many and that was painful but that point if she would have any relationship with eleanor she had to except that.

-- except that so she struggled to get it under control to not have an outburst so they remained dear friends and correspondence. she had diabetes and lived by herself and a cottage but then she could not support that sought 1.elenore heard she was not paying her rent so eleanor sent for her and have her come to high park - - hyde park she lived with her but then got her own place but towards the end of life she had a small victory to began writing children's books as she wrote to one about helen keller that became a huge hit. soleil talk to her granddaughter recently he

was given the rights after she died that still brings in about $85,000 per year. so was in such a happy ending for hick after eleanor died she lived another five unhappier she requested at the end of life that she be cremated her ashes fertilize the trees but actually they stood on the shelf and the funeral home over 30 years and refined lead dumped in the unclaimed remains part to the cemetery but quite recently 2000 a married a couple decided to make money for the plot so the installation of the plaque

in the cemetery as a journalist and activist and friend of er. thank goodness for that because it did have a post script about that. >> the granddaughter who wrote the helen keller book book, . >> hick wrote the book but when she died she gave her granddaughter -- eleanor's granddaughter the royalties. >> franklin is absent from this story. >> he is. that is one of the things that i remarked don.

and the descriptions their absent from each other's stories still make his relationship with hick quick. >> he liked her. he listened to her stories and people would be impressed. to say he better watch out for that hick woman she is very smart laugh laugh she was. i think he liked her aunt that relationship got him off the hook. >> where she worried about being a outdid? in is there any chance are

you expecting any blow back of the nature of the relationship between the two women as the book comes out? >> any blow back or denial now talk about a lesbian relationship i had very middle evidence how they felt about that more than they worried about it. hick said there is a book called the well of loneliness. and i would not walk around with that under my arm in public. said knowing how they felt there was a lot of shame. and now if we call that a love story or an intimate

relationship. i did think eleanor was very inhibited the matter how much she enjoyed sex with franklin or i don't know with hick either. hugging or kissing maybe there was more hick was more experienced maybe she led her into more been no doubt the times together in those early years were very blissful and the longing for each other was the bench in u.s.. and now in is tame. and why it could be celebrated to be kept in proportion to tell that like it is to not sensationalize that.

>> >> did she have a relationship? alan r.? >> winston churchill often visited dow white house. she did not like churchill at all. laugh laugh there is some very funny incidence. hick celebrated christmas together but not on that day began she could not stand to be in competition with everybody also they would have their own private celebration it was supposed to be christmas eve. and to seem very annoyed by whole celebration has been ruined because winston churchill had shown up. [laughter]

sociology disliked it was like two little boys playing now for with their maps. with his whole imperialists in view of the world and they argued about that. >> then in the spanish civil war we would have heads handed to us by the republicans. they did not like each other very much at all. >> negative you're researching the book.

>> i went through different phases for go to get past the as hero but toward the end especially after franklin guys in the last period of life it sounds heroic pdf to admirer her profoundly. from watching from the sidelines. >> i find it interesting how eleanor cars out a public brawl of the first lady on lead day-by-day basis. but yes historical looking back she was in this

incredibly private relationship and there is upwards of three books of his affairs and the admiration of their presidency of their time in the white house with the impact made on the country was so big and those moral standards especially the marital one? >> so many thoughts. lucy by the way is responsible for the subtitle >> what is the question the amount of attention paid to fdr and his affairs and the fact it has been in the shadows? no more laugh off.

>> but how would that translate to modern day? >> i actually wrote the op-ed piece and nobody has published yet what would happen if alomar ran for office? if she ran for office first of all, her teeth or her hair or her clothes would be attacked all of that idealism would be suspect to say if she idealistic or just ambitious? i am not sure where i was going with that except now it would be very different she once said i will never run for office. [laughter] but it's a woman of

accomplishment nowadays probably would run for office then she would have to deal with those unfair attacks hillary has to deal with. with both the the screwing around. >> she says some of the lap -- the less admirable qualities. >> she could be oblivious. those are the qualities that would hurt hick in the end. she never gave hick enough

credit in her memoirs and maybe that is a concern about the relationship. and eleanor wrote a lot of books. there is a lot in them that is not true. and hick is pretty invisible . she could be hurtful in that way. >> probably hick was the only person that she loved she had a number of people that loved her only not in another relationship she would tend to go from one relationship then to a doctor who was married to someone else at the end of

life she lived with a couple they bought a house together she was on one floor they were on the other so that triangle pattern repeated itself over and over and hick was the only one who loved her only with an exclusive relationship but eleanor was not capable of that. she really wasn't that is one of that intimacy of that kind she had no love and her childhood so it is understandable. >> i am wondering i found very interesting there reporters were all running after her to look for her. and was thinking of the

ladies in my lifetime the only ones followed around like that would be jackie kennedy. whether they so interested in her taking this trip? did she have that type of charisma? initiated. that was hick doing to create this phenomenon. people got a kick out of the eleanor because she was a story. you are right with jackie kennedy only different. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

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my oldest daughter has written a wonderful book about her family and her -- -- my oldest granddaughter, the oldest daughter, who has type 1 diabetes and the struggles the family had. >> host: elan coach. >> guest: and this wonderful yellow lab who came is it elly's diabetes service dog and is in a camp in burg, and coach is with her, and a lot of the concern i know we all feel about elie because this is her first extended period of time away from home, is mitigated bus she has coach with her. >> host: and that book, elly and coach, came out in 2015. by stephanie shaheen. booktv did a