heather heather hendershot will discuss the impact of the television program firing line which premieres in 1966. and next saturday and sunday we will be live from the miami book fair. that is a look at some of the other programs that they are covering this week. this is book tv for serious readers. here is a prime time line appeared we were poor on the decline in employment and men. and at eight they recall the plot to assassinate adolf hitler. 9:00 p.m. national book award winner deirdre bair on the

life of organized crime boss al capone. and on book tv afterwards program at 10:00 p.m. eastern they discuss the impact that immigration and on the economy. and we wrap up our saturday prime time line up lineup at 11:00 p.m. with former banker the fish serves banker. how i destroyed swiss bank secrecy. that all happens next on c-span to book tv. ladies and gentlemen thank you for joining us here in our headquarters on this beautiful fall day. thank you as well to our television audience in our online audience i have nick eberstadt.

and author of this book men without work america's invisible crisis. my colic here director of bookings institutions. we are can and try something a little bit different today he's gonna be the emcee of our event today with you here. do you want to take over the baton now. i thought that it was usual that the emcee talks first. >> we want to welcome aei today neighborhood. it is to the west of brookings. i am really glad that nick has done this book because i think

that the acute issues of the great recession has a large extent not completely pass and what we are now observing as a number of chronic conditions which as we show this one the shocking fraction of prime age men who are not working is something that is a pre-existing condition and it preceded the great recession. maybe gotten a little worse during the great recession and it requires something more than only something to make the economy grow faster. we will just talked for a few minutes and then chat and then we will bring into the conversation. i should mention if you're watching online we are able to field questions you go to our website called sli .-dot dl and you enter code aei event just write your name type in your question and we will post

it to nick. i'm in a try to discipline myself and i expect you to discipline me if i don't discipline myself my book in ten minutes or less so things haven't been going so well in u.s. labor markets since the turn of the century. the employment to population ratio the work rate for americans 20 and older pete around the turn of the century and they had dropped in what i would regard as a dire manner. as i show in this chart. this is men and women together since the year 2000. what i point out in my book is that this decline of work rates for men has and going on a long time it has been going on for at least 50 years. the lower line is the work

rate for men over the age of 20 you can say waiter met that includes population aging and you would be right about that. but the great line is the prime working age men the key 25 to 54 group. no aging affects there. and you can see that has been stumbling downwards for half a century. here is another way of looking at that prime working age employment problem. this is the proportion of nonworking men of prime ages from the beginning of the postwar era to the present you can see this eerie ratcheting up with every recession going to a new worse normal right now almost 15% of prime age guys had no paid employment. if you want to compare it to the depression you can can't and it's not a happy comparison. if we look at the work rates

for prime age men in 2015 they were actually about two percentage points lower than for prime age men in 1940. at the tail end of the depression. if you look at the group 20 to 64 years old likewise it looks worse today than at the tail end of the depression. so it's not wrong to describe the male work problem as being depression scale. if we just had american men back to work rates of 1965 there would be about a number of guys with paid work in america today. the main reason for this collapse and i call it the collapse of work rates for men had been declining labor force dissipation. it's been a withdrawal of the men from the workforce. we like to measure

unemployment but looking at unemployment is a very incomplete measure of what's going on. the blue line here. guys had checked out of the workforce or the great line. there are over three times as many men who had left the workforce altogether as who are unemployed without a job and looking for work. this exit from the workforce dominates the lack of work dominance today. this kind of chart is meant to show how it looks an international comparison in international comparison and it's not a happy story. we are the dark black dashed line. we have won the race to the bottom. actually the drop in male labor force participation in america has been worse than in countries like greece or france or in countries that had have a lost generation of

economic growth like a japan. we have the dubious have the dubious distinction of winning this race i'm afraid. this chart you probably will be able to see you may have to go into the book. what it shows is that men who are out were out of the labor force by and large are checked out of civil society. they don't do civil subsiding. there try to get back into the game. their time patterns are very much like employed men. for the rest of the group neither employed or in training there has less civil participation less volunteering less charity work than working men or women or unemployed men likewise with housekeeping there full-time job is watching.

his television video internet in the like. over 200 -- 2000 hours a year. not the best way to get back in the game of employment. what are the reasons for this quiet catastrophe. i think we can call it that. clearly there are three different sets of factors we can say supply demand institutional or we can say economic or instructional. welfare related and the barriers to employment. obviously the big changes in the economy had have a major role in the story. but i think it's possible to overstate the role of structural changes. what i show here. the rising proportion of men not in the workforce in this

prime age group. it's almost a straight line from 1965 to the present. if you took a look at this you can tell when the recessions were you can tell when the boone times are where the bust times. it's almost like a gravitational change. you can also see other curious differences in the labor force participation rates if you parch this out. we all know for example that less educated men had been much more hard-hit than more educated men the blue line and the great line are both men without high school education but the blue line are foreign-born and the gray line is nativeborn american men. foreign-born they have about

the same laborforce profile is college grads in the united states. one other curious thing to note we have really big regional disparities in our labor force participation rates. and some of the big disparities are between neighboring states. maine has got one of the poorest profiles. there is only one state by state border between maine and new hampshire. we've seen increasing disparities by state and they will grow over time. the curious thing. i wanted to point to the question of disability benefits. there is a lot of discussion of disability benefits and quite a bit also a disagreement about the role of disability programs in this plate to work. nobody can prove that they have created this problem nobody can show that they have

closed it. when i try to show in my book is that disability programs have a role in financing this phenomenon and they had had a growing role. by my estimates in this book almost three in five not in labor force men were receiving one or more disability benefits about a million of the 7 million were receiving two or more disability benefits in about two thirds were in households that have at least one disability benefit. finally there is the question of crime. this has been all too largely overlooked is a problem with respect to the men without work phenomenon. since the 1980s we've seen an explosion and the number of americans who have a felony in their background now over 20 million, one in eight men this

is part of the problem but we don't do collective collective figures very well in this aspect. my book i show it regardless of age or ethnicity guys who had prison record are much more likely to be out of the labor force than guys who had just an arrest record who in turn are much more likely to be out of the labor force than guys who don't have any record or trouble with the law. i can tell you about the dynamics here because shamefully our government does not collect statistics on this critical aspect of modern american society. but these factors well had to do with the terribly worrisome growth in nonworking male americans in our postwar era. in our postwar era.

i'm very pleased to be here. i think it's really important that nick is calling attention to this issue and in doing so is effectively a note for the record. i noticed this. no one was paying attention. it was a very moving experience. to talk to guys mostly too old to be in college mostly to young to be retired in a conventional sense. this is a guy named mark riley from little rock and i asked him what did he do every day. and he said the most meaningful day of his week was working at this bank you can see they give out fresh fruit and vegetables.

it gave some order to his life. it made him realize that there were people that were worse off than him and he got the leftovers. i want to make two points kind of a bit in the weeds about what nick said. first of all as we will talk about there is a widespread agreement that this is a problem the council of economic advisers did a report that coincides with that book. where there's a disagreement is about what is the nature of the cause. how much of this is supply something about the men and they are capable of working. and how much is about the demand when you look at next charts you always see a lot of ups and downs. over the last 12 months. the participation rate has risen by about one percentage point.

we know it's not immune to the health of the economy but we also know that it's not all about the economy. this is a little demographic a chart. it's good to focus on 25 to 54-year-old men because that's a limits the problem of baby rumors aging. but in that category there are getting older on average. if you look at the 35 to 44-year-old bracket at the highest laborforce participation that represents less of this so it's really important to think about demographics when you're doing this. what's going on. just a couple of observations. the manufacturing has changed. we are producing a lot of staff with fewer workers. these were the jobs that you could get with muscle and not brains. it was now very hard to get a factory job without some kind

of computer skills. it doesn't mean we don't want to bring back manufacturing to the 1950s there are reasons why we say that. but we have to think about how this affects prime age men. when you look at the question about is a demand or supply for you can you can ask this question. what do you see. this is the ratio of high school wages and showing you the high school dropouts. you can see that relative to college wages high school wages are going down that is part of the argument that this is something about demand. technology and globalization has changed the nature of the workplace i do not favor less educated men. and finally this is just another chart.

this incarceration thing is really important. and it coincides with education. you see that as a high school dropout. these are people i think that are in their 30s. you can see they have a double whammy at least. they do have skills at the education. the higher proportion have this disadvantage. i couldn't resist. based on the survey evidence he ask about these men who are not in the workforce about whether they were in pain and lots of them say they were in pain. this one shows whether they took pain medication. as you can see the blue line is men 43 and half percent of

the men who are not in the labor force have taken pain medication two thirds of them are prescription drugs. we don't really know what is the cause and effect. that there's something going on with a white working-class men and it can't be any accident here. that we see this pattern more likely to be on pain meds whether it causes you not to work or because you're not working that if than if you were in the labor force. i will leave it there. i want to remind people there watching online that you can send a question to sli .-dot d.o. you can send a question and if i can remember that in my ask that.

let's talk a little bit about the supply and demand thing. why do you think it's so much more supply than the cea. i think it is more supply and they deserve a huge salute. there are very few in the administration or in the congress who have done as much to put this on the agenda. it's really question i think of the proportions other we are talking about demand 70% or demand 40% i tend to think but the both the institutional barriers had been severely underestimated.

and it fell in the criminalization of a large proportion of american population obviously mostly younger men. i think that has been severely underestimated in part because the government kinda forgot to collect the information which would allow us to examine this. i think the supply aspect has been also understated in the general narrative because i don't think that most of the general work is actually taken a comprehensive look at the role of disability programs in the overall flow. i can understand why there has been a certain amount of oversight there. we do not had any central government authority to collect information on all of the crazy quilt a program that we have.

that's why jason's excellent report the cea report focused on one program in particular. they concluded that this may be didn't have such a big role because only 28% of the men and not in labor force were enrolled in that one program. i think what i show in my book is that the overall proportion is actually well over half. if you take into account ssi veteran's disability and other programs that people report being part of. it's a much bigger aspect we get into questions about reprobation -- reservation wages and things like that and i think those are actually quite complex to research. to try to answer those in a rigorous way. but i would say for the reasons that i mentioned already and for some other

reasons i mentioned in the book as well. the notion that this is overwhelmingly a demand problem i think it needs some re-examination. something that is keeping these guys to even bother that. we know in general that has some of everybody. we know over -- overrepresented men nativeborn american men and men who have never been married or don't had kids at home. those are the overall patterns. but there are some striking irregularities in the patterns for example if you are a black eye and your married you're more likely to be in the labor force than a white guy who isn't married.

with that respect marriage trumps ethnicity. if you are foreign-born and you have no high school diploma your profile looks like a college grab. so nativity or immigration trumps education in that particular case. there are enough of these irregularities to suggest that the motivational aspect may have been neglected in much of the work that has been done so far. >> i think the demand supply which is in some cases it did artificial. if i tell you if i raised wages at the bottom and if i doubled the earned income tax credit and i pulled some of these men off the sidelines but i also made them more attractive hard to know what the supply is and what the

demand is. if you are thinking about how to attack that. what would you put on your list? >> in the book and pretty light of policy prescriptions in part because i don't want to be seen as the big thing. we need to have voices from all of the political spectrum come in from very different points of view so that we can build a sustainable consensus. i suggest in this book three areas of investigation one is trying to reinvigorate business and particularly smaller businesses from our job generation i think that probably wins on its own merit.

but i think as you know very much better than i have a net business in an environment since 2007 more businesses closing than opening. it can be getting all sorts of ways. i suggest in the book that we should look at a serious overhaul of our disability programs obviously we need to have some sort of disability guarantees and insurance for society. that's why the programs are there but we also want to make sure that the unintended consequences of the programs aren't enormous and perverse. i think we can argue that they may be today. the sort of direction that i think we might talk about actually is something that we see in sweden and you heard it first here. what's going on today. in sweden today some of the aspects of their employment

policies are kind of like work first. they are heavy on training and skills they incentivize showing up for job placement they show up for work. if they take a look at the welfare reform 90s in retrospect it is fairly successful there's been very interesting work done. on the pursing of the impact in the macro economic in the last part i would emphasize such a scandal that we don't collect data on the social and economic circumstances of the 20 million americans have got

some sort of a felony in their past the past but all marked behind bars. if we are a forgiving society and i think we are part of what we should want to be doing is figuring out how we can get these ex- felons back into the economy and back into society. we can have evidence-based policies unless we have the evidence and i think that is absolutely critical for the future. i think there at the beginnings of some research on this and we have some really interesting things inside and outside the government. i think that's one where there has been an enormous focus. one of the few bipartisan things. we realize that this has consequences that were not for seen when we decided to put some people there. you do a great that we could wiggle around this line with

demand and so if we have a stronger economy with more job creation more of these people would be working in on the disability i think there has been a lot of discussion about reform and not all of it is work first. do we find a way to give employers incentives so the key people on the job. we've a system where once you go on disability you never get off. we discourage people from if they apply for that from even looking for a job. they say you don't need a thing. i think that's another area and partly because of the trust fund. there has been some work this work and recommendation is necessary. someone wrote in a question which i heard a lot also.

our these guys getting pushed out of the job market because the women are coming in. >> between 1948 in the year 2000 and response to this absolutely critical question the work rate for america as a whole rose. as the work rate for american women sword. what this means of course is american women were not displacing them. they were supplementing them i was kind of a win-win situation. as a gruesome parallel decline and work rates for men and women. so i don't think it is an either or with them as we sometimes hear in certain circles. it's been a pretty grim economy for working women for the last 15 or 16 years.

>> they grow steadily in the late '90s and level off. i was talking in particular about the work rate but it's also true about the labor force participation rate. when you look at that chart with lots of different colors what do you make of the fact and they seem to have a more severe problem here. almost every society and affluent industrial democracy has seen some decline in labor force participation rates for prime age guys over the last 50 years. that seems to be worldwide. we have seen a much more severe decline than any other industrial democracy. now, i wouldn't say that

that's because we are necessarily more globalized or more outsourced although maybe we could prove that we are if you take a look at other countries and i'm thinking off the top of my head of sweden and france in canada they experience just about identical the clients and their proportion of manufacturing jobs. as we did. from 1970 to the present. and yet we are the country that have the most dismal record with the exit of men from the labor force altogether. certainly it is logical and i think quite evident that the big structural change in manufacturing as part of this problem. but i don't think it explains why the united states ended up at the bottom of the barrel.

not that part. >> there are a couple of possibilities. there are policies that they use that we don't this is actually optimistic because there are things we have to do. we also know that the gap has widened more so it is consistent with the notion that wages at the bottom are so unattractive that they're not enough to get guys off the couch. and with the measuring the impact of wages at the very lowest level in the minimum wage level gets to be a little bit more complex because of the various social benefits trying to calculate the exact take-home in effect it's a little bit more complicated but as a general process sure. you showed the interesting chart among the states.

is that more of a question than a hypothesis. here is one of the sets of ingredients i think for connecting those. at least to my eyes as a real shock test. one of the things that we know about disability benefits as opposed to the other sorts of benefits. they may tie you to the locality. it's also true with other sorts of benefits. it is at least worth considering whether the nature of our social benefits program may have have the perverse effect of helping to tether people to low job environments when they would be better served through mobility certainly it is the case whether it is the social

welfare anchor is actually in effect or not. certainly it is the case that geographic mobility has plummeted in the united states over the past 35 years. on that in itself is consistent with the big increases in disparities between the states. >> there is nothing to stop you from taking your benefits it's not like there might be differences about the way the state is. because they are at the local level. there is a certain amount of barriers and start up and so forth there. because they are administrated in the local manner. i suppose you could look at questions of wages and places at the bottom. did the changes to the welfare system in the '90s all the

requirements of work and all that stuff with that had have much impact on the behavior of these prime age men. >> in the 1990s they wouldn't have been getting it anyway. it was a controlled experiment which mainly involved mothers of children who weren't married it's really important to point out people. it would be nice if there was a bunch of men who decided not to work and decided to stay home and cook and clean because their wives had such good jobs. it seems this. these men who are in the labor force who aren't even looking for work don't tend to be married anyway. you don't make a very attractive husband if you have

that. it doesn't show that they're actually spending a lot more time on chores around the house or step. a lot of screen time. when it be nice if the stories don't seem to hold up very well. i think it was dr. gregory house that told house that told us that everybody is a liar. but if you take a look at the surveys the picture is pretty dispiriting. there is not a lot of civil society. it's called socializing.

one of the things which is really noteworthy about the u.s. labor market and the poorest war era is a large number people who left the labor market for a number of years and then returned successfully later on. most of them i think were probably called mother's. now what ever else you a mother who has at home. she has to be dependable. you have to keep a schedule all of these sorts of things if you look at them as skills are the sorts of things that employers tend to like you have to ask the question about what happens to the guys in the group either in education or training after a year or two a been out of the labor force. how do employers look at them

and their skills. your solution largely you want to tweak the benefit programs to create more incentives for work. you're not against you are a little skeptical about whether that is the problem. mainly what i try to say at the end of this book is that it's important for people with all sorts of different policies to agree with one another that we need to's to a spotlight on this. we can do get out in the world of empirical effects. but if we left this problem and slip back into the shadows it's can certainly continue

and we have all sorts that are to get even worse than this. what are the consequences for this. slow economic growth. greater government dependence bigot -- bigger budget deficit. more pressure on fragile families. less social capital weaker civil society. there's nothing good. i myself will not connect the dots but i think it's possible to talk about increasing political extremism in the united states. >> it's hard for me to figure out what is cause and effect here. if you lost your job you can't get another one you didn't look very hard moving this

kind of hard. he you get discouraged. you get angry. you may become one of your supply side stories. on the other hand you have all of these guys and many of them who never had a solid job who had found some way to get my mooching off of their family or whatever. and that leads to some of these making them unattractive to employers. it's hard for me to tease out. which one of these as a consequence of not having a job and which one is a cause of not having a job. >> i take your point. but this is why we need to make this a bipartisan or an ominous partisan point of concern. and why we can't forget about it. or when the economy seems to be going well.

is there a question back there? be sure to tell us who you are and remember it would be good to ask the question not make a speech. >> i think this is great impact. one of us shows is not the lowest educated but also college education at least the males in the prime age are starting to have increasing problems. relocating and finding jobs. my specific question is have you looked at this and the other interesting figure. the number of jobs and careers that the average person will go through at a the time they are reaching the end of their working age life we understand there is an increase in the number of jobs some look at

that is job mobility. some look at that as job insecurity. did you look at that at all in terms of how many times people are forced to change jobs or do so willingly over the course of the career. we think it is a measure of more instability? >> in my study i have a chapter which looks at the demography of the on working american men. this group of 7 million between the ages of 75 and 54 who are neither working or looking for work. interestingly enough the high school dropouts account for a disproportionate share of this group but they still only account for about one fifth. guys of all backgrounds with some college or more with at least a little college or maybe more than a little college account for not quite half but over 40%.

it is a nontrivial aspect of this greater phenomenon. i think that there is a paramount of work that has been done that is suggesting actually that the churning in turning in the labor market has been going down not and that the decline in training may actually be something that we need to be a little bit worried about and david you may have that. and he gets true it's true that technology and globalization are changing over people's lifetime. there are people whose jobs they can no longer do the job because the job has changed but on the macro level there is less a people moving and changing jobs than there was and that was one of the explanations that economists offer for the slowdown and

productivity growth. somebody ask whether you think there is a reluctance of people who maybe once had a factory or blue-collar construction job to go work in a walmart or a nursing home that there is some self respect or stigma. >> i'm not sure i can answer this question as a numbers nerd i think we need a poet laureate or someone like that he can get us some of the humanity in this great saga to describe this better what i can tell you from looking at the statistics is that only about one in seven of this army of 7 million men report that they are out of the labor force because they could not

find a job. six out of seven give other reasons there. a lot of the reasons are disability. and david described some of the truly grim new findings about pain pills the vision of people sitting in front of screens on pain pills all day is really pretty dispiriting. select passage about when you're done. >> two-point question as it relates to remedies for this. it has been shown through several studies that if employers were to hire for skill as opposed to credential they would probably have a 30% increase particularly among

underrepresented minorities in the workforce. my question for you is twofold. would you advocate a discussion of amending the civil rights act of 1964 to prohibit discrimination based on credentials. and secondly at what point in time do you think the trajectory becomes a homeland security threat. so i'm a bit out of my depth in dealing with the civil rights act when i think about discrimination against minorities the first thing i think of through the study has to do with the felony background in criminal record and the overrepresentation of some minorities in this pool i don't think that we actually know as much as we need to

about why people who had a record of some sort in their past or in the labor force as much as i think they should be. is it because of discrimination. in simple and barriers or is it because people lose a skills while they are in stir. our people have trouble with the law also are the sort of people that they tend not to look for i think we can know a lot more about that than we do. and i think we should. and if the government were to collect data on this rather than for us to rely upon a couple of surveys we would know an awful lot more. as to when this becomes a crisis that our policing authorities have to pay attention to i would submit that your guests is at least as good as mine things are

going in a direction which does not look at all been larry summers in a blog of his a couple of weeks ago just extrapolated the line out to the 2040s in the 2050s. i don't know if we can really do that but if you do that you have to really have a spooky two-tier society staring you in the face. >> how are these guys supporting themselves in the disability patchwork or whatever. where do they get their meals every day. >> i have a chapter in this book chapter eight which ties to parse some of that out. i don't think i'm totally successful because i don't think that the census bureau

and their statistics fully reflect the benefits of people around the country and what they're getting. it's not a crime cps also wait underestimates capital gains and stuff like that. as far as i can make out from looking at the income in the spending statistics which are done by census on the one hand in the bureau of labor and statistics consumer expenditures on the other hand it is to some degree moonlighting but to a very small degree is a not a major source of income. about that as government is government benefits, disability benefits and about that reliant upon the resources of your family friends, girlfriends.

when it comes to actual spending patterns nonworking men and that includes the unemployed we can't parse out the on working. about three quarters of the guys are in the latter category so it's predominately then. there spending patterns are lower than the national average but interestingly enough they are not in the bottom quintile of spending for america. there in the next one. they're not living like kings but they're not at the bottom. single mothers are at the bottom. the guys who are in this group are more or less ironically in the income spending stratum

which one day long ago we might have attribute it to the working class. >> i sure you would agree. we have to take all these numbers with skepticism and is the kind of question that is probably best answered not by responses to the consumer expenditure survey but by a much more sociological in interviewing people. i'm so glad you mentioned that. about a mile from here back in the 60s there was a anthropologist who did a beautiful study about black washington called talley's corner. it has withstood the test of time and in all sorts of qualitative ways it gets up ways that they just can't get at. with statistics and commas and decimal points. we need to have a whole bunch

of elliott lebo's go out and give us the human dimensions of this crisis. i want to take a couple of questions. there's a couple appear. i will take all three of you lisa with the national organization of climate representatives. two very good questions. one as you mention the impact that incarceration has on participation of the labor force. did you take a look at the overrepresentation of people with disabilities who are incarcerated. about 40% say of people who are incarcerated to have a disability. the overlap of those could be telling as to what the story is. when you look and make international comparisons and were doing much worse do you

take a look at the fact that in other countries people who become unemployed had access to better job training and had universal healthcare. it can help them maintain labor force attachment. and we don't hear. >> high, and with the aspen institute. a couple of comments, questions the first in this whole supply versus demand argument supply in a way could be read as culture and we've seen these other surveys that will show women are willing to take jobs that men won't take

and some of that may be wages some of that you alluded to before. but perhaps some of that can be gotten to with higher wages i would be interested in your thoughts of to what extent this is part of a larger cultural feeling kind of problem. you talk about failing boys and schools. the one other question you look at the 25 to 54 prime age of course once you get to older men your scene increased labor force and i would be interested in what you make of that. >> i'm steve foul. you all know what capital is. i don't see a lot of these

problems in china. in going to this gentleman's comment about enabling people to be unemployed they are supported by their families but also supported by the government. has there been any research on the effect of getting these men to return to the workforce when their subsidies have been reduced or cut out. >> is a good segue into my question. have you given any thought to what the university basic university basic income policy would have on this speemac feasibility good questions. are there some overlap between people being incarcerated in disability. i argue in this book. this is something we desperately need to know about. well have nearly as much information on this as we should. >> when we talk about men who are not in the labor force the government does not count people who are incarcerated.

at this point ten times as many people have felonies at large in society that are behind bars. other countries have bigger social safety nets. has that one reason why they are doing better than we are. i think some of this. the training policies and policies in particular which are there turned up people skills and get people back into the labor market. those things i think are very much worth looking at. one difference is it is more characteristic in the european countries to have a larger unemployed populations where we had people who are not in

the labor force at all many european countries tend to have a shift towards more unemployed. >> data gets better. they are at least going through the motions of not being in the labor force i think one can certainly make that argument. there are people that disagree about that. is this just one more symptom of the end of man or something. i think if you take a look into the pool of un- working men you do see different sorts of motivational factors i think it's really meaningful that you have such a difference with respect to family structure people who are married or making different choices.

likewise people who take the risks of coming to the united states are making very different sorts of calculations. ..

>> this be is to questions. actually shinri just cut off their subsidy? in den wouldn't we be better off so they are not breaking into them pdf. >> as hardhearted as siam i think we have some other options were from the total darwinian option as i mentioned if we were to overhaul programs to put incentives in place were some help for trading for job placement that my work even better.