i want to change that. it was good to have you here on c-span. inky sir. -- thank you sir. c-span where history unfolds daily. in 1979 c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies in is brought to you today by your cable and satellite provider. he is next in book tv. he involves himself in sheltering billions of dollars for american clients. >> good evening ladies and gentlemen. please enjoy yourself and the

food in the food in the beverages. i think it's so important to express my deepest gratitude to all of you for coming. with the launch of my book. there were 70 some people that were instrumental in this. is not an easy task. i went through this for many years of course with the assistance of my publicist my westside development team. in my ghost writer who is really exceptional and put up with my nonsense. i think you all understand once you read the book that

you can tell your story finally. not to spend my side. i think anybody that knows me knows that i'm here as a whistleblower and i had to lie on the whistleblower. the story really hits home. i think it will help others as well. but by doing what i did in exposing the largest in history it has forever changed the landscape of offshore banking. i've tried vigorously to assist and help other countries as well as my own government unfortunately my own government didn't really like what i have to say and i think we all understand why this happened. when you expect the rich and powerful people in this country you get the short end of the stick. it is easy to ridicule and criticize me when in fact all of the bigwigs are doing all

of the bad and the various acts. i took on the biggest bank of the world. and i took on the biggest government in the world of the department of justice. i think it's important to keep up this fight not just from my for my cause but for other people down the road that might be affected by their actions. first of all i think we all know who they are. what they do their instrumental in being a component of law enforcement. it is better off because of whistleblowers they are easier, quicker, and smarter and can get right to the cause of the problem and correct it. have you expose that. generally the only way you can do that is by having the people inside exposing that. in tonight we are honored to have various whistleblowers here that i think interact

with overtime. john character the cia whistleblower. all of them in different stories but they all work for the u.s. government and why were they attacked i think you can draw your own conclusions on that one. and they said because they tried to destroy your reputation in your financial future. and this is something that has to stop. if we don't stop it and collectively stop it then it will continue. and this is not good for public policy. as they continually rest and intimidate and ultimately fight for their jobs. it really doesn't make sense. i think if you go back around 55 years ago in the town the

very famous words of john f. kennedy send act not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. i think those words are a rallying cry for every whistleblower to stand up and do the right thing correct sometimes it's hard i think that we will continue to head problems if we do not continue to support and protect whistleblowers. it's not the primary reason but certainly it alleviates some of the problems that they face when they destroy their whole financial future or their family. so a lot of these head been thankfully supported by the nonprofits in this town the national whistleblowing center. project in government oversight just to name a few.

i have got with all four of them they are very professional they are relentless and they help the cause. i think we should all really applaud all of those folks for what they've done but we must ask ourselves why had we been missed treated in the line. in the case of ubs when you think the bank was not fined properly they do not give all of the names properly and they let the kingpins walk away what is happening here is the taxpayers had to pay this because they wrote it off as her loss. the corporate bank broke it off. the people who have nothing to do with this head to pay for it. additionally the shareholders have to pay the outrageous legal bills to cover for the acts not just in the u.s. but worldwide. the two groups of people have to pay for this. this is the problem.

and if it doesn't get rectified it will continue as i said. it's something that is very serious. it sets a bad precedent as well as there is no deterrent. so if you feel as though you can just rake the lawn write the check it will continue. and wells fargo is a perfect example of that is a present-day story. but really in the end when i think about why i was successful in my endeavor to see in front of you here today it was around four years ago that i wasn't allowed to come here when my three attorneys made the historic press conference here with the award of a hundred $4 million i call them the modern-day three musketeers. i thought it was appropriate. my brother and i who were instrumental in helping this as well as my very good friend who i worked with for many

years went out of their way and they were very helpful getting this book delivered to what we have this evening. i think if you think back to the u.s. constitution if you want to know what the u.s. constitution says you ask thomas jefferson. they wrote it. they know what's going on. i have deep gratitude for my attorneys and michael cohen as well. i think it's important that we all understand that we have to come together with the nonprofit the whistleblowers, the attorneys in the public who all come together to help these folks rally and weather the storm which is really a very hard storm i really want to thank you again. all of you in my attorneys for your help and support and i

couldn't have done it without you. thank you very much. [applause]. select thank you very i would be more than happy to answer them this is probably one of the best corporate crime books. there's two stories i liked in the book. if you can just tell the two stories it is about how hillary clinton prevented the

16,000 names from being turned over to the justice department and about your time in prison. >> thank you for the confidence in the book. i wrote a spiderman brook that was pretty good too. i think the problem we have here was i don't want to come into a political he said she said but there are details in my book. we can say thank you to wikileaks exposing the behind-the-scenes negotiations between hillary clinton as secretary of state and her counterpart the problem we have in the situation is that in any crime that gets committed if to get to the source of it and and find out who was behind it and hold everyone responsible. the problem with this case it was for years they've never been able to crack the swiss market.

they were so afraid of these games coming out as they are today they negotiated secretary of state for 4700. the 25 percent. and they would all agree if anyone failed at their job 75% they would be out of a job. so why did she do it. who picked those names. how can that happen. did she pick them. this is a real very dangerous scenario we still have the answers do we really know. to have a third party counting those. are we just cannot trust them. it's just a big problem. and all of you were being cheated by the way. it's about every american who gets cheated because they i don't do there .-dot job

right. now what happens with the others. get have a third in misty. they would come in over the last six years. well had 19,000 but 55,000 so they came from other banks as well. obviously you can't indict 19,000 people. but the problem here is when you start looking at the issue if you don't get to the issue of what these people were doing how do you know that you have solved the problem. how do you know that you have solved the problem. why had they covered in the first place. it still exist today. we say here and it's the money they took to another jurisdiction. someone gives up their passport. this is what i told them. you must to go after the

source because if you don't eradicate the cancer it will mask itself. and that's all what we have today. we other governments chasing them on down. they're moving in the money to other jurisdictions. this is such a big problem. they don't not like i know it. here's what i told them. ten years ago and they did the opposite. it's called the camp. and it's a funny story. when i went in there they put me for my photograph of my idaho. i always wanted to play associate a psychological game. i'm a smile. i said i'm here to have fun.

there is no prison cells but there are some interesting people i was there with. i went out of my way to help them. i try to give them a little glance of hope. while you are paying for these guys. it was the most ridiculous thing i ever saw. cards stealing lawnmowers and snowblowers that you paid for. food, clothing that you paid for union salaries which you paid for. and you don't see this until you're there. again if the see what's really going on. this is not right. we want the sticks. do you think the guards are in a police themselves. i went out of my way to help

out. i read a lot. and i knew i was right. i'm still right to this day and i will continue to say i am right. i got vindicated with the awards and i think it's not just the money. i think the main thing here is that it vindicates me. i started this whole saga long before was in the past. it was about doing the right thing. i think that's what we all do. we do the right thing. but everybody wants to spin into something else. and that's exactly why i'm here today trying to rectify that. thank you. >> any other questions.

>> could you tell me if you think that congress failed you when they brought the hammer down brought the hammer down i think that most of serving part of the stories as the united states senate. when i first went to the department of justice with my first lawyer which i fired and then sued i should've gone to the irs but that's in happen. when the doj demanded that i give them the names i refuse because i said i would go to jail. i can do it i'm not giving the names. that's what i said to them. i asked my attorneys to give me a subpoena from the senate. if i give up one name i go to

jail in switzerland where i lived at the time. this is very important. this is very important. i go to the senate i get them on the information. of course they share with the detail took my information and get the names. the u.s. senate will not give me my senate testimony. ten years later i still don't get my own testimony. it proves i was right and was prosecuted. it's a fact. i don't withhold any names. long before he ever pled guilty. this is what shows how corrupt this is.

the twisted and turned around so i'm the bad guy. if you came the subpoena you would've have the names. it's in the senate testament in which i can't get a of. that is one part of it that's very bad. i think the senate never called me to testify because they knew they hear what i'm saying now. and it's very dangerous for them to have me there. that's why they have him extradited from italy. never called me and he was acquitted. and i had proof that he was breaking the law in this country and in france. it's crazy. that's just one example of how i think the senate was unfair never called me to testify in public. he pled the fifth. i have a secret there.

he has to testify and he pled the fit. and they sat there and did nothing. i think that is aiding and abetting a felony. you can't plead the fifth if you have immunity. the doj was playing a game. get him on the country and he quickly left the country and was free to go back to switzerland. it's in the book. give a follow-up question. [inaudible] i will be quite candid. the cia didn't want to move a lot of money to switzerland. it's all there. the senate testimony.

senator grassley had stuff on this back in 80s. they were laundering money with the afghan drug trade. whether you like it or you don't. but it exists. but the problem here is when i first came to the government they said they have the target letters. they know you're breaking the law. what is to let you know we are investigating you. what they did was they tipped there had because they knew too many of them working to be exposed. every one of us. all pled for the nonprosecution agreement. no one was prosecuted in the united states or switzerland. i did. there's many more banks to go after.

it's almost like an unbelievable story you can't even make up. when i work with my attorneys they just said this could have happened this way. the thing is again when you look at the u.s. government i always said they are in bed together. the problem is very simple. there is too many interest at stake. i will give you one last example with respect. i can 2004 when i was working at the bank there was a situation in which ubs was not allowed to send wires to cuba libya or iran because they weren't sanctioned countries. they were doing that for years. they were violating that. the federal reserve comes in and find some hundred million dollars. they are sending millions of dollars to these three countries and there told not

to do it. he represents the u.s. interest in cuba. switzerland. if you indict ubs you indict the swiss government. a guy like me a crumb. we can't can go down that path. how to become over the hundred million dollars. again you get cheated. as well they continue to do the illegal business. no one went to jail. write a check. no problem. [inaudible]

write the senator and say why what you give him his testimonies. the first thing you can do why do they hold hearings on kevin downey and how he misled congress. he have an oath in the u.s. constitution and he violated it. he called me as a witness to testify under oath in public. that's what i've to see happen. not just for me but for other whistleblowers that come forward. they deserve to know the truth. and hold these people accountable because they are out there still doing this. that's the problem. if you don't stop they will continue. [inaudible] why do you think whistleblowing is such an important part.

as i said before. i think we will all agree that you look at a certain parameter and this is what i said to one reporter in france. on the other extreme if we knew some rogue person wants to unite a nuclear bomb in this country we would probably report them to. two extremes. that means if you agree with that statement everything in between should be reported as well. as a matter of public policy if we clean out the illegal acts and the work on society as a whole. it's true. everyone says look.

if you are affecting us don't you think we should hold him accountable. and so forth. >> do you draw the line between public citizens in the and the u.s. government on that one. you're either part of the problem or part of the solution. they are the problem. they never late to get credit for someone else. i think that's what i was feeling. the government was so hostile towards me. but no one ever came and said it was him. nobody wants to give credit to someone else. i think that's really the problem. the retaliation is very important because it really

scares people into not doing anything and taking no action. >> it sounds like wall street. if you think back to that. it's the only way to go to jail. and he gets quite ironic. to sort of answer your question in different way. i went to various different agencies. i did go to the senate i think that was an important part of what i did. it's exactly what happened.

so then they started coming up as stories. organ hold a hearing. you're right. what happened on wall street is just absolutely ludicrous. you saw him. it's a revolving door. there should be a law passed. and even work anywhere near it's a tough one. [inaudible]

>> yes we did have a problem i'm in a determined individual. and think it is i have that proceeds to help that. they were very nervous about mentioning names and they were very concerned about having the documentation that would be that documentation. he was very good and protecting my interest. if you feel determined to have the truth is told. almost anything to make sure it's told. and unfortunately i will do it. i don't feel threatened or intimidated.

there is corruption. we will expose the people. no i don't. i certainly don't. how is it that this existed for so long and no one did anything. there to scare people away. they're doing the right thing on public policy issue. it is better for us as a society. [inaudible]

you're absolutely correct. what part of the story in my book when telling my story. don't talk about this guy. after i told this information and went through what he was doing and how he did it $420 million was there. we are not interested in them. you don't understand. you are not upholding the

law. if you violated your off the constitution. you should've been fired on the spot. the point is this hit a 50 million-dollar condo in new york city and i walked through all of these things. >> how can you ignore that. the boot maker. when you have an iraqi national living in new york city. i think by the way. we invaded that. that's what we did do. that has taken a step further. he found them with hundred dollar bill. how convenient.

and they go to 60 minutes. i have no faith in 60 minutes. none. what he think they should do. i said when you go talk to them and all of the family members that died on september 11. they cut that out. i saw it firsthand. get out the way. it happens all the time. i keep telling my story i hope you enjoy the book. >> can you tell us more about that.

the problem is very simple. no offense to the media here is indebted to the department of justice. they get the inside scoop on that. that is not reporting. that's called nonsense. unfortunately i think the media today and i've actually had a lot of luck with that. they had have some good success with getting our story out. but it's a big problem. that has not been ingrained because people say reporting is not like it used to be. use one hand it to you. and it's hard to do an investigative story and really

get to the heart of the problem. >> is a a huge fan of the story. here we go. some very relevant issues today. i would like you to share a little light on what you feel about that subject. everyone would love to pay zero tax on its face it. and something we have to pay in a variety of ways. some people say they're not enough. you can have it all day. what we pay taxes for us to get something in return. some sort of service.

i think the problem we have in this country is it so big you will never agree and obviously the tax code is a mess. keeping them offshore. but it's legal. they do it. let's just change the code. with the discussion. on individual aside of tax. i don't believe flat tax. has to make sense. ..

>> >> there should be a three tiered tax system there should be looked to come back in the country and cut out europe. >> congratulations on your book berger not you have finished writing it, what is next and what are your plans? >> part of the of book can motivate other whistle-blowers hopefully that comes out that doesn't

mean to motivate them but to give say clear image of what is out there and what to do going forward. also to lecture around the world i have done in and interrupt quite a bit and i continue to do that because i think it is important and also with these initiatives that is a big part of it but then to hold government accountable as well. because of those officials in europe were shocked at my store they could not believe that. are we none to that here? is that the standard operating procedure in this country? of that is the problem and that attitude has to change. now with europe didn't have the systems you have to understand right that derives with abraham lincoln and it helps everyone recoup the money so they have to

get their arms around that a bit and the secretary of roadway was very open to the idea she liked the idea but i said to focus on getting the zero whistle-blower are bored and then 10 percent goes to the whistle-blower the take 10 percent of that to put into a fund whether it is education fund so of somebody comes imitate non-financial reward then they can report and get some of the money from the fund so the financial pages that also helps non-financial in everybody wins as a matter of public policy. >> the risk that you took it

appears extraordinary but in terms not just the u.s. financial system but the global system, where the risks longer-term with what some have suggested as a global contagion? >> i would say that it is a very important package -- added edge because money is corrupt and will continue to do so but the problem now is money finds a way to go another direction sked jurisdictions, hiding it, commodities, people can be bribed through gaps. so some countries don't have the same rules and regulations that we my have

but the problem in this country is the united states and panama are the only to the dollar to agree with automatic exchange of information if you have an accountant and estates the u.s. would not tell the government but if they say we want that information so why don't they play by the same rules? asked the president or treasury secretary why are you so against it why are people paying cash wire dictators laundering money through our banks that's right because jamie diamond was so great at citibank he was great they don't want to limit the truth that they're part of the problem and they don't want to fix it. that this justifies a state so what about those other countries like singapore or

dubai? it isn't the same even the delaware companies when you don't know the shareholders. so we will never get to the bottom of this. and uh treasury department just pushes this to say this is what we want. so we're running around in circles. i don't see a solution so is an that situation because you don't want that to go to someplace you will never see it again so now they're even

smarter. if i had an account of don't have any money would you talking about? get a passport. there is no way to trace that. bacon stop the many movements that is a band-aid. they should save you all played by the rules and looked at the way business is conducted. not knowing the shareholders that is nonsense. people hide behind that. >> exactly. i have always said secrecy was extended now is

perpetuated by the american government. wire their 19,000 names? we dyslexia other three people go? [laughter] and then we say we're sorry. it is mad. and you got cheated. u + 300000000000 other americans were cheated. this is outrageous. live the media doesn't touch upon and i don't know. call the white house and ask them to marco ascend the copy of my book but not know if he has read it. >> i have gotten two-thirds of that it is a good read.

but then to implications that are here but what is the developing market and the trouble with the story is a lot of money comes out and did doesn't get invested in education or health care than we have a situation where it is tantamount like in africa in particular. the second thing is if you have these jurisdictions and plays in the united states and elsewhere then that includes national security. there is an issue of terrorism with national security and a the mexican cartels. can you talk to those two issues? >> absolutely.

i think the problem if you want to cheat on your taxes is one thing. or cheat your business partner is another or your spouse. those are fundamental reasons why have offshore numbered accounts. but in the developing world in this suffering. the have been to chad and kenya and morocco. and what happens when i was in chad 1998 they found whale. 300 miles of paved road. where is the money going? is almost if you did not see a car you thought you were in the medieval ages so i thought you wonder why

africa is still in the dark ages or wide the dictators have guns and they are killing because the rich and powerful are controlling and all the other people an underdeveloped part of the world suffering and will continue even with the hurricane in haiti why are we sending aid why don't we send down construction companies to level the homes? >> because this is the game they keep playing but aid does not work. you need to give them a home their homes are destroyed. so aid and does not get there. it has always been this way. time and time again so for a comeback to the africans the problem there is the rich elite dictators it comes to

zurich corer geneva is anybody asking the question why? no because it is good for the bank and a real-estate company and everybody wins. so then coming back here you are right. issue did not exist. joe biden state is a big promoter of this. big joe. the fact is that is your state to. you can tell me you don't know what is going along. just like the letter there wrote to the president emile you will do to fix it because if you don't it continues. that is the problem. but they are all buddies

that the banks and of law firms that will shift when they leave public office so this is correct. i have seen at. is very sad. >> do think corporate responsibility has a nagging to do with the development of these countries or the non development quite. >> i don't claim to be an expert on the countries but rather than just throw money at the problem to give aid you should make a concerted effort to change the infrastructure. have to have a place to hang your hat.

so give them at and empower them than people think i have a nice little hall mike ray's of family i have a job and now i'm living under a shack. but the amount of money every given aid did remake them bigger and stronger? that is a basic fundamental right. we have the technology to do that. uc the big helicopters coming. it is outlandish. if that works it is great because it has not worked on this side.

>> this is very interesting but going into the future with requests for aid so that must be a good person. >> guess i have helped the greek government. i did have direct contact and you have to understand a group of people that recovering the market's so what happens you have a concerted effort. i gather was an account as $1 million ubs in particular was in geneva.

see you have massive debt market in the serious. so with greece it is a small country the very fluid did is an island nation. but also money can move around as well. ubs took advantage of that. but over the air it is much more easier to do that plus the added company said up with the regulation so you have a big problem in these countries it is a little easier to do the business also the legacy money. fifth generation.

that is incredible. said uc this. so if they have that many of legitimacy whether through corruption or extortion there is up problem if you don't have accountability or transparency. >> [inaudible] >> i would disagree.

even though you think did doesn't it does. we do not prosecute anybody and hsbc for laundering drug money. the treasury department addition all be kicked out because we will just have you write a check. great. another check that is fantastic proposal is sends the message break the law and write the check and you are done. >> [inaudible] but what is fascinating to me that benefits for the non prosecution so looking at who did not pull the

trigger? seventy-five down what law firms there were. and it is quite astounding. so this revolving golden door we're incentivizing the cheating. where does that stop? to make that is the problem he don't do something about it then the cancer continues and for many cases jpmorgan. countrywide. wells fargo. hsbc. the list goes on and on. but you can see that common denominator maybe it is a favor of somebody higher up so they don't do anything.

everybody benefits but with ubs the taxpayers foot the bill they have nothing to do with that but then the shareholders never should have paid that bill and then those that did cause a problem walkaway. so we are saying there is a pattern of conduct that will undermine society and we see that because now all of a sudden we keep saying why is this occurring? because you don't uphold justice. that is why. you will see that in other ways down the road bridges much more dangerous as the banks get bigger with the problems that we see today. if you don't uphold the law then they will say no. we take care of this. but they don't they complete their favors.

you have been cheating on the tax code over decades so we should turn a blind eye? it is clear. when i was that ebs you could open an account in las angeles but we need the client's signature confirmed. i told them we're not interested in that. let me think about that. so those entities around the world to shake your signatures to open the offshore bank account. that's great. >> and freeze spokane the past.

we have been operation since 2012 talking to the fbi and the doj. the fed and the u.s. treasury, they have all turned their back. so to have that but it is worse today than when he revealed to the american taxpayers. the reason why the deferred prosecution agreement ourself popular because the money doesn't go into the treasury. that this disbursed by the white house. >> it was bad when you

revealed the ubs situation but it is worse today. idol see any help and -- i don't see any hope. so what is the benefit of of whistle-blower to do his civic duty to show corruption of government ranks? what is the point if the government will not protect you then why take the risk? >> thanks for the question it is the age-old question and that is my book that tries to tell them to have the courage to come forward there are powers that be that tried to undermine those recede at so they'll have suffered in their own way. but if we don't make a stand

to change the laws they and senator grassley is the champion who has held hearings about that will have more hearings. but if we don't unite and come forward then it will be a problem but what we see now in europe it is slowly catching on. just to protect them but a movement in the right direction it is not perfect clearly and we need to have strong for whistle-blower protections and departments that are held accountable if it's not accountable the what does that say about this system? because it would be much more powerful than we need people to make changes and hopefully that will work in our favor